>> the state of the net conference was held in washington, d.c., and monday night on "the communicators," we will speak about upcoming issues facing the internet. former special counsel to the fcc, mark jamieson talk about future communication policy and acting assistant attorney general or national security on u.s. efforts to counter online radicalization. >> everybody likes that neutrality, but they don't like the ability for the sec to be a referee and make sure networks are fast, fair and open. be a lotk there will of improvements. i think the vision needs to be sharply focused and i think it needs to structurally adapt. >> there are efforts of others to create counter messaging because the government is uniquely not in a good position to be counter messenger, so that is an area where i think the private sector has stepped up. >> watch "the communicators" on c-span2. "washington journal"

continues. host: nicole austin-hillery is of counsel and washington office director for brennan center for justice. thanks -- thank you for being with us. 3 million to 5 million illegal votes in the election, the claim from president trump. is it valid. guest: it is not valid. research has been done, not only by the brennan center but by several bipartisan organizations ,t columbia law school, arizona other organizations like the brennan center that have done research over the years and what research shows is that voter person voter fraud, which is what mr. trump is claiming is something that is virtually nonexistent, even with respect to our most recent presidential election. research has been done by "the washington post" and other news organizations and has shown we have found for cases of what

might be deemed voter fraud and in each of the cases, they were the results of misunderstanding by the voter or clerical error on the part of the election officials. that is it. on the fox news channel they said "the real problem in our election system is that we don't really know to what extent president trump's claim is true because we have an election system that is based on the honor system. what we do know, despite assertions to the contrary is that voter fraud is a problem on both sides of the political aisle and they should welcome a real investigation into it, especially since the obama administration tried so hard for it to off the kid issue and prevent real assessment." guest: i think that is hyperbole. we know our democracy has many checks and balances in place to ensure that our election system are workingd they correctly. every state has election

officials that worked very diligently and very hard to ensure that elections are run properly. they have these checks and balances in place to ensure things like voter fraud are not happening, so this concept that voter fraud is something is foster's. secondly, what we do know is that we do have system within our voting system that are not working properly, but they are not about voter fraud. they are about things like outdated machines, voter registration systems and they are not working alternately. that is we need to be focused on. the fear is that mr. trump is going to spend millions of dollars of the american public's tax dollars and he is going to basically be on a witchhunt looking for problems that don't exist. when those efforts could be better spent on improving our election system and ensuring that more americans are

registered to vote and have the opportunity to vote. host: this past wednesday, in an interview is available at abc.com, president trump talked about this. here's an exit. [video clip] president trump: with that being said, when you look at voting registration, a look at the dead people who are registered to vote, you look at people who are registered into states. you look at all of these different things that are happening with registration. you take a look at those registrations and we would do an investigation on that. 3 million to 5 million illegal votes? president trump: we will find out. you have people who are registered to her dad, illegals, in two states. you have people registered in two states. in new york, new jersey. they vote twice. there are millions of votes, in my opinion. i will do an investigation. david, i am speaking. i want the voting to be legitimate. >> when you say in your opinion,

thatons of illegal votes, is something that is extremely fundamental to a functioning democracy of fair and free election. you say will launch an investigation. what you have presented to far has been debunked, called false and i called the author of the pew report and they found no evidence. president trump: then why did he write the report? then he is grappling again. i always talk about the reporters that grovel and they want to write something that you want to hear but not necessarily millions of people want to hear or have to hear. >> so you launched an investigation. president trump: we will launch an investigation to find out and i will say this, all of those votes cast, none of them come to me. they would all be for the other side. host: president trump on abc news this past wednesday. nicole austin-hillery, your reaction question mark guest: my

reaction that --? ? guest: my reaction is that this is false. to president is trying to take intentionally from things you should be focused on my now. the problem with this argument about voter fraud is that there is a fear and concern that it is really an effort to try and get other suppressive pieces of legislation introduced and input into our system of voting in this country. when people are fearful that our democracy and our voting system is not working correctly, then people start looking for answers to that. the answers they start to look to our legislation that have the effect of suppressing the vote. we know this was a problem in the last election and the last several elections. the court circuits have found that voter suppression efforts have been nothing more than make it harder for disenfranchised groups to vote. my concern, our concern at the center, is that they are trying

to lead the groundwork with not dealing with voter fraud but trying to put other mechanisms in place that would limit the number of americans have access to the voting booth. host: our guest, practicing the lawyer in washington, d.c., a former fellow at harvard law school, a graduate of howard university school of law. after studying undergraduate at carnegie university of pittsburgh. bob is a joining us from massachusetts, independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i would like to say i have watched all over youtube people that run around for the democratic party trying to get others to registered to vote and then taking the republican legislation -- registrations and throwing them out and then only submitting the democrat registrations. there was all kinds of nasty subway on with the democratic party. they have lied to people, they burned bernie sanders out of the contest.

that was despicable. if you could address that, that would be nice. host: thank you, bob. guest: bob, thank you for your call. i understand concerns about stories of that nature. what i will try you is as i slipped to steve at the outset of the conversation, there has been independent research that academics,nducted by reporters, think tanks on both sides of the aisle, liberal leaning organizations, conservative organizations, and they have all shown from their studies that these kinds of actions have not led to voter fraud. i will tell you, some of the things you have mentioned, we're all concerned about it and we all when it brought to the attention of elected officials in the jurisdictions and we all want it to be investigated and to be dealt with. i would so you based on the research that we have access to

is that many experts have cited of these kinds of activities are not happening to the extent that they are leading to voter fraud. i will share this with bob, the view passed -- elected officials have hyped up as senator john mccain said that they do not agree with president and that voter fraud simply is something that they do not believe is happening. in ohio andgo to al the public in my. thank you for waiting period -- thank you for waiting. caller: the first question is people ohio, we had 500 get arrested and almost 150 of them are getting charged for felonies. that is just in ohio. that is just a statement. my question is do you believe in

voter id? i think that would be the answer to solving. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] from this. host: thank you. on the issue of photo id? --st: here's the program problem with photo id, many states who have tried to use photo id has tried to target specific groups of voters. federal courts in texas, north carolina, wisconsin and north carolina have shown that with respect to north carolina, the legislature tried to implement voter id at the booths and they had literally been targeting itican-americans to try make harder for those individuals to

vote on election day. the problem with photo id is not simply that it exists. not accessibles ineverybody, it is not free all instances, and it is not something that is easy to obtain for all americans. id thatre taught photo was available to everyone, that was free to everyone, then we might be able to start a different conversation, but the problem with photo ideas is that in has been used in a way to make it harder for only certain groups of people to access to the voting group and that undermines our democracy. our democracy is supposed to be about making it free, accessible to all americans regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, and research shows that is not what is happening with respect to photo id. "ost: in "the washington post

and it is available online at washington. thedebunking but was put on table by president trump and sean spicer, and according to "the washington post," saying that the claims by the terms that are false. i can confirm that the report made no findings with regard to voter fraud. but that quotes are used earlier saying life trumps probative voter fraud is long overdue, you can read that online at foxnews.com. we will go to john in fairfax, virginia. can morning. caller: good morning, c-span. i use my last two calls for the election to ask you to look into this situation of voter suppression and you never did anything. finally, you have someone on to talk a little bit about it. i think that brennan center needs to do research into how many people were not able to

vote in this previous election and those purged people would have elected hillary clinton, so i blame c-span for not bringing this to our attention before the people --ecause more many, many more people were purged through cross track and reforms of voter suppression that voted them the difference between two dead candidates. host: guest: two you are. thank you. -- host: thank you. guest: thank you. that is something the brennan center has research, and something we are concerned about. any major election, there is a window of opportunity in which all states have an opportunity to purge voter rolls. if they do not purge by a certain time, then they must leave the voter rolls as they stand.

what we have found is that some jurisdictions have been circumventing those rules and regulations and have been purging them outside of the window from which they are allowed to do so, that is one of the concerns. another is that some jurisdictions have targeted certain groups such as those who were formerly incarcerated and have looked at those individuals to specifically purge them, even once they pay their debt to society and in their jurisdiction and have the right to vote again, so that is something we are concerned about. it is something we do research on and something we work with other groups to ensure that purchased hassan is at in a way that appears to the boards and rules and regulations in the jurisdictions. host: we'll go to add in ohio. independently. morning.ood with respect to most of your guests, i appreciate when they president trump as

president trump because i think they need to go ahead and accept that, so i do appreciate it when they do that. is a gentlemanay had called earlier and stated that there were over 500 people arrested in ohio preferred or fraud. he is correct about that. another thing is that this is happening all over the country. i do not know what that retraction was from the pew report but i did read that. the is happening is that swamp is being drained and this has been going on for a very long time. there is the reason why the governor's do not want to accept this. it is because they are part of the month in the mire. -- the muck. guest: i appreciate that citizens like yourself are concerned about the integrity of our voting system. , likethe brennan center everyone, and regret is a, but what i will say is it does when citizenst believed that there are large

numbers of voter fraud incidences across the country, again, i would urge you to read research from many different organizations and resources, and xduals, aiken the mix -- academics and experts that have no affiliation to a party, the good that research and evaluate it for yourself. when we hear of voters say that they believe voter fraud exists, that concerns all of us and that is why we do the research, but the bottom line is the research has shown that voter fraud and incidences of voter fraud, particularly in numbers that you and one of the previous callers talked about is not something we are finding evidence of. it exists, we are concerned about it to stamp it out, but we are simply finding in our the only evidence that it is existing is that voters who are sometimes confused about rules and regulations and elected

officials who are sometimes making clerical errors. we are not finding evidence of individuals going to the polls and pretending to be someone that they are not. it is criminal, something people can go to jail for an something we do not the evidence of actually occurring. host: is it possible to register in two states? guest: it is possible to accident me register into states. it just cannot in the news that when a president trump's daughters, tiffany, i believe, was registered in two states. host: the white house denies that i should point out. guest: the white house may deny it but it was in the news. in individual can be registered in two states because they make -- they may move, and in that time. , they registered in new states but have not had the opportunity to get taken off from the previous day. that is not illegal. what is illegal if you attempt to vote in both of the jurisdictions where your registered. we are not finding evidence were

people have done that but we do see that people are voting in one jurisdiction and at some point, once the elected officials get their message of issues in order, the person who has moved will be charged from the voting or they used to live and they will only be and should only be listed on the voter rolls where they reside. host: i ask this in seriousness, can a dead person vote? decay, can someone used the registration of someone who passed away? someone use the registration of someone who pastorally? guest: they cannot. again, these administrative officials sometimes are backlogged. if a person is still on the role, no one has the right and it is not legal for anyone to go to the post to impersonate that person. the research we have seen, bipartisan or otherwise, has shown that individuals are not

saying they are someone who is this east when they are not. host: those of you listening on c-span radio, our guest is nicole austin-hillery of the brennan center. frank is next on their public in line from texas. good morning. -- on the republican line from texas. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. hillary, if you are so concerned with floating and that everything is done right, i don't understand why cannot state ofd that in the texas, and that is where i live, so the only per second speed about, you have to have identification to get on the affordable care act, to get medicaid, to get a drivers license, to get insurance, why is it when it only comes to the boat, that the democrats are afraid that somehow, voting rights would be suppressed? i just do not understand that.

if you're really concerned, let's do it thorough investigation. let's don't just have some people picking and choosing because of the side they are on, whether democrat or republican. let's really do an investigation once and for all. that way, it there is no voter suppression, if there is no illegal voting, then we will know it and we can move on. thank you. host: thank you, frank. guest: i appreciate your concerns. i have two key points for you. first of all, the fifth circuit court of appeals was governed with texas litigation and has shown on record that the state attempted to it implement voter id rules is not simply trying to implement voter id to ensure the integrity of the ballot box. evidence was brought to the court and the court had clearly, in its opinion, that the state of texas was attempting to

pinpoint and focus on certain portions of the texas community, namely african-americans and latinos, and they were trying to make it harder with the use of voter id for this particular groups to vote. again, that is the inherent problem with voter id. like ar id is something state like texas will ensure that it is free and accessible to all people and they are not going to be having encumbrances in place to make it harder to access voter id, then we can start a different conversation, but right now, with what the courts in texas have shown is that texas is not letting voter id in a fairly. it shows that in person impersonation is not happening and it is a waste of taxpayer dollars. i would urge president trump to

focus on issues we have at the ballot box. we had registration issues, outdated machines in jurisdictions across the country, including texas. those are the kinds of issues that we need to concern ourselves with and that we can fix them and make elections better, more efficient, more effective, so i would urge you mr.other boaters to push trump to look at ways to spend money more cost effectively and make our democracy stronger by making our election system or efficient and effective. host: nashville, tennessee, next. frank, independent line. the money. caller: i was wondering, how much money would it cost to have the federal government to check to determine voter fraud? abouti was wondering absentee voting, how does that work? and are there some discrepancies?

host: thank you. guest: thank you. early estimates of what it will cost to conduct this kind of investigation are in the millions. hein, this is something announced, but what we know at this point is that it would cost millions of dollars. again, i assert that those millions of dollars could be better spent by improving our election system, rather than investigating a problem that some experts have shown does not exist. with respect to absentee balloting, great question. if there is concern about voter fraud, absentee balloting is in area that has not been explored and that those people who are proponents of voter id have even, when urged to look at absentee balloting as a look at what the problems exist in it, have really not been concerned about absentee darling -- absentee balloting. it would be easier to have

discrepancy with respect to absentee balance -- balloting because it is something that doesn't happen. person gets a valid, no one is in your home, looking at what you are filling out. that is an area where it would bebetter, which i would better spent looking into possible discrepancies rather than in person voter fraud, where research has shown it does not exist. even when urged, republicans, who the party has been more focused on folder id, even when next, they have a skewed efforts to look into absentee balloting and host: that might exist. host:our fine -- balloting that might exist. host: we have about one minute left. quick question. importantis is very to the lady that is on today. she sounds credible. i am from minnesota and we have motor voter registration in this state. i have a valid drivers license,

i can build. in my early career, i worked with and document to workers from california to washington. they all drive. -- the fraud is not in the voting. the fraud isn't getting the documentation you need so when you show up at the court, you appear to be legal. all of these and documented workers drive and had done it for generations. how many of these people after the rhetoric that trump without you think did not get together and went to the polls and at least not vote for him or hillary or bernie sanders? the fraud is not in the voting, man. it is in the documentation you get so that when you show up at the polls, you appear to be legal. host: thank you. guest: thank you. what i have to say in response of that is this, again, we have a strong democracy in the united states, the strongest and most effective in the world. the rest of the world emulates us. i say that to say that with

respect to all of the states, they all have systems in place to ensure that before any individual is registered to vote, they have been verified, their documents have been reviewed, and that we are only allowing people to be registered who legally should be registered . if there are issues of any particular individual, it is up to those states and their elected officials to deal with those problems. i think our system of voting and the way that our jurisdiction looks across the state, i think they do a great job of doing that and when they find issues, they also do an open job of dealing with the issues and dealing immediately. host: the issue of voter fraud and calls for an investigation. more details online at the brennan center.org -- the brennancenter.org. commentsstin-hillery you are. it has been one week and today since the start of the trump

administration and some is to talk about. they want to focus on a tweet from donald trump -- our country needs strong borders and extreme leading now. look at what is happening all over europe and indeed the world. a horrible mess. this past week, president trump did save the world is a mess, the world is angry. you agree with that sentiment? (202)-748-8000. e? you us agre (202)-748-8001 check out our radio app or streaming online at www.c-span.org. back in a moment. ♪ they said, let me tell you something. i have done everything i can to protect my country, and i am not afraid of you and i'm not afraid

of president bush or anybody. to make up in order to protect my country, i will, and the sort of did the mussolini thing with his arms and then he i didn't, i but gave that order and then we said wait, calmed down. a," formeron "q and cia analyst talks about his book "the briefing the president: the integration of saddam hussein." >> saddam hussein was a realist in the way that political power is exercised and in the political power game, and i think that he saw when you are playing at his level of presidency, the top level in the country, when you win, even big, but when you lose, you also lose big. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern. >> the state that the net

conference was held in washington, d.c. this past week and monday night on "communicators, we will stick with attendees about issues facing the internet. the --special counsel to sec, talk about future communication policy and acting assistant attorney general for national security, and the u.s. efforts to counter online radicalization. >> everybody likes net neutrality, but what they don't be ais the ability to referee on the field and make sure networks are fast, fair and open. >> i think there could be a lot of improvements. i think the vision needs to be more fark -- sharply focused and the structure needs to adapt. >> their efforts of others to counter messaging because the government is uniquely not in a good position to be countee counter messenger, so that is with the private sector has stepped up. >> watch "the communicators" on c-span2.