tv Discussion Focuses on U.S.- Israel Relations CSPAN February 9, 2017 2:58am-4:37am EST
d wt on byakg a ugorheasngn inite'trsion01 seesf blatns th m bupn e ar th a imyanhe. 2 amplesth a aille asouea, peal t on that e cuofhe su otoy'evt. ats e aens ssnd vimavs tara w paragmorddssg e rai-leinn confct otr mnshalo a thjesam embay ve thwainon itite i dog oueit ne the ror on thenre ngof u. li ierts t mdlea. srt wh rk. h nthfra. a gngo rianin th gul wereitnghente ng ofoly iue, re, cdi
brf,artepocy ror th who hp iorthne adniraonnd pvi wt ou sols d athe coecd eorofurta beev te efde o hoth gfoar , ea pk esp a plse sha tm r d de alrit. toy, agog tk rs amoi tta aitbo erl ummileaspocy an wre.siselsss t innd cplofor aut thmeinne wk. wi tn mcoeae viwhwi tk chor eciclybo t andof eru-nanhueengnd pealheeaross su tt e ke tben e en. anth im intourto frndf iae, oer
vi fm iaeonhe potil a piccoexof ime mist nanh's mi tasngn. thk vi ts rscte llelinrmllf r detainofhaisoi . vi ocoseisheeaof r ogm. dedes ofmmsi io absrlissserd e s.ovnmt,n e aceainheta pame, r e crar rranthsendba mistti ba wh oerg ryou adcen essss,in cmeat,c comnt,asiswner polaad badst ithhef vy imrttnstuonth
initeoriosttuesn ra. i20 a 22 thdict ohuman oasns pli dlocy ith ofcef e immist f pre nieretya. oerth sci rscteo intohi diuson rs wt tug wlde ef i wt wno wt wthk no aut erl umdmisatn dd et li? erdo iaefiin ts? emtoe,heyolo bk the stentofanda trp t ely prouemtsf esenelt uman t fit t mesy esen um wdoavthe enti oond j tru th wcadr o smso tt sul idti fr mn jeiv foruide stoly.
lyilbegy. ypisiky bthpoer ilofhifos derongsi a ric iam eresmt rg antueys tuinto vo jt w pridti oaphe llitr th wke wcasea mol tteliohip, whe isss, y wl cu terru h oer su, clinheomti ises e co gl,etou o an memeth is derid riinupheucar reent,omim dcred eornghe hl oth agemt. t wa din apuin ba o in'egivan agessiveehiothugut e gi.
o vw, tnkheebe ouriinuphegrme haesntllbeetednd erarve f pmint voesoripng u t agemt y lge th datis whi t, w u foe t hl t oit anwh ithcoecon twn foin t hl o ofhegrme a t bad efrto shacon in roho tegn? fr mpepeiv tt a odebe he. ththd in objecvema su ttlls keau ariaayheha f coecveefse isas pmint tme ri tamig son e stleio sso nc iugatn. bcre s rein anthfothami ul idti, e ur oecve
isesreridsp th ra oa ragi a potil ve y pasithawa beusweavju ge roh faininexrice t omadmisatn, erits sote te tt e amadniraon ccsflyngeed th ra t dpe, oast mo profod liry sury d telligceeliohiof ydmisatn. mpedo y mistti fo. t seim iisot t,utt n d. anatheamti, h wi iaeonofhe dse, o othenstawt, teio fled potil d sttec laonip
niged ph erit uldootatheamti. t most ofndolic, thgi iue in pee pce, t utestes dsrl retogrhds e co iue heea pce, gghes fromayne onheirss ora ggheshrght e secoeranyehe inin aineang prin ratnsp. vw t tmp adniraonilbeinit obcte areiring is see t dp pitalnd ragidide itilben om dfent pris aresef tinto se saticndstdi, att lle bh ia's
testnd ari' iert binhipanehiathe ghtev wh sttec unrsndg t ce iue a s did t oma nenyu geren. the e e jeiv. ifhese a tbjtis, mo iedte ty pe ntdiio. esofheonadtis inarstl ingrpl wi, ilbeg rk o. crse owhainhe ateptmt,s nn day,nlonpeon hasee apind,heecta. kw atn e fee dertntits bte e maapals't al the t. hofuy wl thereoo beusgrplg wh thes nuru irelyhat wi thfi t tmp adnirao's ren li. wh a tsearox?
the e ve on dtrin isig b urntbupuinba oir ismpta. inedpuinba o in in many ysesntl t ulma dtrti ois. afr a, e t k uny etg cts t t ri o isshebscef nn gerncanthfiin ofha vuuby ini suppord we i iq d i a ffenwa iyr. w ouistalehi isextoheecd nuruhe reliohiwi ruia ifusa nottilye y ptn, teiay, nhk i rl role rtri tderoiss agrad. tf rsiisottily
ke ptn ithbale ait is,owo u al thheacth rs's mb o ay t riois ir? weav sn lota aut e teia oth gl o dintglg rsian in, serangusa d in. grtnhey,ou a prti. isilbe morondr fothadniraon thd,esoygsi ai o othveew ecicorgnoly jeiv pmid t pridt. derong is ul b viorwiouakg epto su tt dnove sn sift he s o th iisotepcebyhe xtetf sni jadts remb, iss ryucli e citi ogeraonin
ury n t sutn. ruias t e luon ir inot thsoti. yone sniraales i' mtiedgy h i ulbeheenicryf is w a fusg ric la wh psintom hwi b emac wh enrm tethemacanafr e se wt doese al nd? nds w tmoti tt iesh. watoonetizth iesh. ypisn veryerus ecom sai a ioomy mi oa ndfuvati egypt f wksgove thneye'hoda wead gatim weerviuay e ly oustin t cnt. thegti eno aevy coer y c s h sio e tuiowa i geoullo siegt,
igoeo. eyeehe. i ubveucheru adniraonilbepeng i o wle. sowh tt anis rl diomy,eaeaivioof era'leeripolo y orce e epive twn eau'heul d yphi lveth ypantoecveotng omau abi anlalywh ith condm thsrl? thsrl eris condm,oo ililer ratnsit utnlndth aie isaswisrl, tnk e ke te tt tn er thk u e ke tsea laonipetenrede trp d immist nenyu ativs e retish bwe bl innnd- t ats t e al eson
eeaquti owh iseloo fnmeca atoes iseloofoin era? ifens re he, tnke ulterilyheto o nny wn kne m b go athwaor-aor rliniseran tnk hi heaithamic jis couny s ry tnkl a thelti a hwaedo anhive mh. heidotui g t diin ibeeeisel a jet atoi. sd,hacai f y. gi ido nny,e go psintor era. be gd ader. ats ate edn ra. ats ate wt. f uure gd ad, e od formecayowi beoofous atoeiseleay nd, e me tng t sd's,
ucio a t oerne. eyeea asrtn amic ldehiinhe dd et,o atmec's amt n aerct taorbuits actllon ineaty aturea iae mer artas,tchaoute haa cta tt eecve d s initjo th iwh iaerely ed anth, tnk, a imrtt storheru adniraon wi ty ayhacaa's ro f o tm t mdl ea? th lve vy icy t meinne wk. ie ns o crs mit aite rlor lileatfoth mti. its lileatinheen tt e kin oforn t reir, rk hielinasngn r we. d n have aoime
wi psintru, t un hi w to t ly he at etg,utheffti. d s tt t e o aulh'ng meinwi psintru, reeconf at thfirst ldbu sll sutaia ailcritiq o isel picon stlen. its lilear t ce. inhe sen tt erar stl f pplenened osio iorr te ateveretyahu'esge antu iinnxecute si o geren t erisnoh r itoe lav revt. e t b iue e rs eerllseite, t a ey. w eca psintru onhericyndriitof
esenhango lkacin yay o whdw iana fr h cmienon styi is. t a ey tk. sendtoea a unrsndg thherede on t vate iue rrndg e rai-leinnonic onhe vatesss suouinselentctit inuca y atheri noh aa cty reo ate c wistd ater psses h haba he. kn m colleuewi sak lomo authi i llnlpot t athi islsnoimeesalou i inthe aea pontlertoes t en o t iue tt cse mh tsi, mh xiy, tt edet
panehiov t lt gh yes. jusem ihe bay su i verienbo ts o ofy anti per i llotept my analys andeilxct s a coleois. fit,hi t, s caai prisamg sml mb o caai pmis. i pe t psinto nd y ilentndulll isamigpris co, isrosels h a ro tpl i wt sa eaie nelhoca nenyu rurtosrl, th n oinheea fur wi eugof pital cty omhenited ste tonae m whsndhe esrerothurerig? isihi, es,n
poanrole iha itlsla vy mpcad,ube len ra'isssn outh peeross omntor my ha sgeedthuned stesov i eas twe jesam, wchs inishe ghwatoot,ndf e it steputh ith coex oreirg e inste n hin a bay thefo 6ea - the f 6ea,ndet soay w rogzeha iselnd t pesnis ve re tt e enal eral stuof wi bsubjectoegiaon anweilsuorwhev t ouomofho nottis e. th ps faininpot prsun e rdign ra. s,ouantombcehe vef e eranmbsyo
rulebuatheamti, u veombcehede th en e um adniraonecnis at rulewi bnetied isoewi pt darl, smso . ds tefe athe tce lle, b jt refi the ia tt er a netiio i a iornt emt wt isou b alabout. i d y m pce tt mi, atie authe jesam bay,ha tin isnef e k ctea. he, iuscolu. th ionofhesss at u ehe dve sn, ono foahi. th inoonofhe iue whh o tre teefo, fi, simohsrono thconvenon whito aner f sometngs,e ll isimohs fm w.
x nt iju lg eug th ises os b lg ou tt op fgeth yopris you a gngo it yoa'to isixons no yodohi n, well fo t 50 annivsa o t unicio ojesam,el berehe aivsa othe sida w, y he wt unl tt eso i bin, beusifouantovo oroim, eisf ovatn,ouo't ies thnhe19 setf su. u ch iinhai llhe 48etf su. e see aamic bay jusems sie a94desi by e um aintrio ats atrede tmpan pa.
t eesitn e 67et iueon hghnshe poibitth itrge thsos rctn u e yi tavd. iteay aise r n anthne ser wks we borth disnn m abt etr oto te thair tawn e bay. thhai llurthflr ero cleue did vimavs: odftno. n u are ? i soantoenmyiss nn f apey cory weishi d't owf iwahi on-sn w,utf sa ee rovy,ens. d wod keo anth terns rheuprt oki rurd om ipo e gi osrl a
ha tri tcouthai inth fstis wl li. eriso dou tt a rtn y,hes we exctioecsendd, esenru ds t ve te inla. , iisasr r m s, amn e stinmo. whist so iornt tt nenyu the trdnved rsertoasngn te thesaynd tnkri mistbefap? thk firs is mbic asobugst u vehiduitathend t last niraonfhi hehtenedlone wn cos mity d iel a otr formofecit coeriout y h se ryruinpocyigs o anndetemtshalaed l ehtea. ia mbicte buits so ftha knowinwainonannd nanhu
is t sonloes svi pre nierho leso me reheno t rthof shgt, ics,o t meooatbereheoly etn ncte whe erhi iinluis thti ttry tonfen t coou oa w prch. i inth tse a t faorth wldri h he. wh a the iue i ulputh aou o tmrerarete e rsonisheucar su unoyohed omob th qstn of scp o enrc. evyo iavme iisel s t eorme soo th wt eor i vigoroly eyera tt wri that e w aintriowaso veedn e alhath we seh wri tt th eord t vorsl itou uethepp ct. t hi biclyfr wt
he fm e op aun taah iisotusabt e ovio othde,ut oeydvoraitoe, %o 9 ooucoer congo whitoonra ent metoheucar de a tseo-ll sse prisnsthelen oth de tt feo i10 t15 yes. th cldesrcne enchntowofourse. t tms oasmbngew ntfusndavg lite enchnt fm l eicd hhnrhe tt llom onneitn yrs nanhut a etg a nanhuil s, d enha ats fp t e i hior it is thg. a he tt an i trsfme e, b wcaot
su t btasceri isss was gngo vy poan the llesssn e ncon im re taahmit spred athe.sauory veon e lltiislesation id. lle esononerr ncon wh iouidth fr rns t jla th cldisssha b i infothmo pt, t quti i w wl melo wi t utestesf u it ist watops t ale rt clrl t cfiatn heinofilrs a mti det ear th ty ren e eorme soo n i thscp soo ishawhe e esenis to wea't wa aumha , hi tt setng atetya igog ce te pseo t see , erisherede o thisnfceers sapnd ats e inngoi
foar llt dfentesging frhe.storabo ts mebo, w y dlit oso othe ovio? w llouorwi t ab stes, ra, d ntgey anng i ara t outhbiic alsis en w or er in t bk ges. ifouembe t damf se. jophashera ieret ofres. the s gdea a tn erweheeaea. w y make reheea ard't overelbeoo ar aerin wayth ihe, o. mo oiclsilsa pl me in beerdianinma oth ntfus d ppg t co othplonm acr. buhodoourereorhe an yrs
whwi u te reisy? atee tbeheir quti. e co ithegn,ls aneled d w y cstinraan flncinheegn? thk e meatise thquti oyr. iselasavat ts thk,ercafuy. isels mememo hble th ige cdit fo thk eorhup a iselreseinrchangbl th dnothk eyane civen rianth lenein98inebonit hd siaenne t licsf ab uny. eyreorhulehath t ed f iwainonnd seer bu ty ulli tkn, eysse tmps e alkeonyr. sohoaryogog me de? a'sheea hocayodre wee beeeruiand iran ent metoyr?
th wl ihi, hu quti bau t pntf paurisharuiand iriantes a n idtil. ir imu me mmteto asd. aansess lyndheha hpesere hiul t,heclrlarneous abtssecsehesehi asheinpiinhera -hboah aes h h tseonstdi retishs. eriso heleerha wi b lke an sni ldewi n he osretishs. eyhi in llwh itom tss. eyhi rsimit on , t'ma aea t ats e al d w essrl tn thea n eyri aed bwe ruiandra it lksargin e ct
atrahabeme mity ppero e annsnd hefos suryie iss t sileecio thk isrls stoced smso me, sthn ri iselseto he rli detain i t 19'wi sia thunrsndgser bacay foed cayodr n ueranng ybthdascoa n t ha inndezll i the syan pt. w y eurth in a heolh n'go sth hi iaehagoezll onhe lane rd a ty n'wa tenen hbollah t siaboer y zblad't kehe eahath a fhtg rindan tco bk.
il iaeou le kn, ats e an ats e ay whe est ? atoethunedtas ensi ites ung the alki wh rusa? d ats e s.ilngo t t tle clrl rsiwod keo veifngf me sanio. e nkg sctnsre rtg em l. wh ithshe t deal d atoeiteafo ise's rd. th ithsendss. e irise e eun at. ha ud e keroth poumoayhasrl s co tnlun steo ewh. ia iq meninim its l cae ofomn chleesndhrts thgy, iththatf za yphalo aut00 soie ihe sai ypanisel areoorang
founel aotf e tas e t t pli vi. irerkle e ou oseri coerio is h bug iaean joanlor geer anth in clr alas out iaeanthgu stes clor geer hrtsss a h nosodoc becseft ty ha a in tmeio tug noalofhe d b ceaiy t gfoe the e inngsrl d th snitas os. t ialunr e bl a esonhaisegime asiswh ith ab ceivtoo ovthtae? ybth le h iis w,heget itllorre meiniselndhe abs c she cutyooraon coteerri, bhedo t veo athg ats rmiz. ishe aayo mew in mo oitbo t tle id' iitorhera e ab s, y he d
sothg t pesnis. we m n ba moac b th ds t mn dno ha aubc inn. is iuef atorcabe neilbe k qstn. etya sge thid, y n'yogeth aruaetwof e ur veipmac ts, ulyo brg emo shgt? cod u nd w tsoho gi e gialiea ph? pastia aaythk e rsca snao. iala pt basth pastia. t ulth ialscrte meomtun wahawo d give leinnsolic coro alitisel cae e laraou i noextloe. e s.ri that 20 th lllionin00wi
coolzzicanththd fo ias pt in 13 d 14 ife n't hia meun mae anitomsile atig rui se gial umel oso spo. isilbe qstn. i inits miaktohi israel -th aooat t pvidingf urea er thealtian su rolledo isn s mas. ulthe cse u.-nn tie inahaen, ra les isolasegnaadca. remb tabea. fo hwod meo shgt, wldto i iranotrlas cae he lesoayi gngo readouisesn shgt. oras l o che
ra. op iwainono't wa areatth. tsas nanhuas ve gd laonipit d. th tk l e me i su tt wl y refoe rtn in. buth ia u. adsh inhe rioisomhi tt stewod rtnlage on heig ba tt nvous. cae sill hmit el ou tmpe re keba. dhahempsis trchntorth htas ouasrtg eran adsh -ofoue,si anhomu douucp adiol li? atig snddd ureelnge ra i congo shgt tadca foth abs thk ipoib. wlde can in th isothg lk . ybe veo inalg
neweavnothghofn e st odsrl inofinding yso rkitth.sto vevethir de t sai' there mhte su, t is setng hr rsefr ve sio iaes. ju tnke veohi o ne--o otinlnwh sa wha tthknean acne e napot ionhe leinn suanth i th sject othtrsion pehai d wh nn. ani in he, ain w trd h t he rs,ut e ads mvi, n'do it. erisotnoh erp thevt diaametenhe --n e vn dgr bwe th. wehod y h se ngs,e re mesinur jeiv, t ccd. e bl isoisliin eyavhed lof lk d tith s memt, eyreotoi tbe- at nsf bl dbeefil nobeelul
wh c t uted steso? itak te r e mistti tgeitpele pce iss t e mb o iue t and he iusnsbout tt. wod guhaifougne isssue, atheolily t guncod t rs thpastiaauory n llse trere sieofhis atominla wreou ve t jisho pty adcang aexio60of e st bk. a oerhis re wl atheoati meeronheig a puin yoha tasmehais an su atilcrteorsrl ve dfiltitti wre yno de ftoatna reit wl ad t ppl callin l'ha o pso on ve? anth iagnsth rso 'et f iaeas jis
ste. t se mebeg moat. th isothg mvi th i tnkth wldanto drs. ani ulrg, at tnk atrgeaythisel lics auayutorhi wi nanhu icoenntorimth thunedtas stadut pocyn ttmes. c gba t h pti t hirit a s tmeca inst weavtoo mein t w,f eris bnk chk, tnkhapuimn ve dfiltinwihe ghecser. bne wl agimvethen io e n-ocre, icis2%f e stan d't in nanhuan t gohe. i inhean tst fus onhe nro aa % t
f ewrelo t 8 raisiv iyoinud th et ruleesn atix stf e leinnsiv ouidofheon ifouetntthapnd owompelehono beerweava weoi w ca dcu. i inth isothg at taahwas. ats e y g tth? mhte e shetrf 04 hehierin psint u's e,e vehi bh. fm grgw. whnorefi i thba aintriodiot d tt s e giinof e derraonofhe laonipetenho t cotrs. w,haetr,y e y,t ou bstedrese ds t lkbo bldg tse selentlueror bck
buit sayth lg-rm ia alhe tseopatn nts lle rtf iae prab. buitaso aeed wi t leinnsndasical, pls,hoh ds t plit stethid o laxcng. nenyu, asu wldik to oraonizhaleer d y,f ats erwere intond u w n bld eitorr? weett at in e anti par. wod keo phizand nobeistered athi reir atrg.sisel ornaon i inthere arede a i bk t bhra twn ndeeaican ar. wh biclysa eryte ofheayf e rrr,he raisoledffse, at ou bsyhriz with e ittas. t rmlyutuily bereve rndf e bit mtis ty out
e psertoissshi d thk tt iornt cae lehi a psint ntsuris. e w th stent thenofheeengn urayashiidf e ghhod t inwere r ttmes lge heaine stlen mht t hpf. hamight inusacto atusererd. oos tsang a diertiedieouou beayg,omcod pt th sutn. mef emrearofhe obm. i e aa veion to t mes t stlen iue. th mhte ef he i trng to nd w. e.swod veoin ppt t aiefoth poti. wh a t pesnis in toonibe. ifhedeiso owhe th tngs gngto dl
thheealiti othgrnd d oia dp pa tt ulbe dtalingwh d thpastia ctrut ts prchs s, am ining e abitof a otautmeev ii nnmpme torw, know tt but ts ea inoratn wh the u., i n'bi bonhearer ofoue,f e s.ou syhrizwi t pastia, wlde ea t wha aysncon siatn. a n dli ithdes rit w. an eubtil spe. its onth ta i fuinhe fndio tt veon teliv o suid bbe a sbbs. atasoto op ifouanisel tsial dictn, ptnsh, en wcaotol a t prle, a swi wre aoi, e leinns veo tt wl. d ybe re
ppti ogrsrtsea ou. at abo mti wh e leinn ac gup anmaeorof fusn leinnovnae,he su tt veoteeth foloi. , i ain t sglzo, sod ng f mou b-- d ats athis par al aue f - iwod a y tintoutorward dictn,ot t sngorhe nc wreouou sik oua ur te. t sod sgl d't inweilco o ofhimeinwi a b nocent i ulbeersurid w di itsn trucryeeng eyavme bor butontdu se tse thes tt ulbe fodaonoi fwa wld vysel t t cotrs ila laonip antro t i ur f thneouyes. anyollereruc
[alae] >> didthk u ryuc i inweilha tpuon r webse a abien li-bebl mapr anatn,o erne tcng tsllvethwod n deta metaprs amowoi ttu tyo heel, w ijoinusro isel yo, e ooisou. azenlthk uer thk u,av. d anyotoheeoe organinghidiuson wh ur tstt ee autetho. wod keo arwi a taorro spos,otro thsur bl,utro sothghai'fali wi. , enerti pnono op r matnsth fd
thseesitngheal pshogil a psil wl. is wl auay vy weul the veeemo pplab toro ts llnd ctie rch t e le. no wt s tayn t iseli gornnt wch h rit-ngolie is a nd aal a licaal ihi, bad t fact that there is nobody to blame. president obama is not president anymore. , the firstgovernment thought is, we need to bring something to the table, an israeli vision. understanding that president trump might not limit
our wishes and vision and president trump is looking for ideas coming from israel. otherwise, the only thing they will find is an israeli stateation, a two solution, which most of israel believes does not exist anymore. in order to understand that, i will start may be with the bottom line. you are all probably familiar with what i israel is known for with policy, domestic policy. and this meeting that is going to take place in washington next week is a lot about foreign policy, but is most affected by domestic policy. israel'sd understand public opinion, which will influence netanyahu's next
meeting. first of all, president obama is perceived as the president that tried to force a right-wing and to compromise with the palestinians on core issues without any connection. secondly there are many israelis that the president obama as responsible for the fact that for the first time, the right-wing leader actually said the sentence, two state solution.
since that day, he repeated this in speeches. it has a real meaning and the right-wing think they can .anipulate the world there are many israelis that fear president obama is the one responsible for the earthquake in italy, which created these policies in italy, egypt, and other countries and created a new reality, which in one way, helped israel to claim that the
only things we need to do is to strengthen our military power and to make sure that we are not making any mistakes and taking any -- and not gambling with our future. fourth, president obama yes,ally in the israeli e removed from the table, the options for a military strike on iran. from the moment he spoke about the agreement and signed the agreement, iran actually removed the military option. and if we look today, we see investments from china and russia. we understand it has become much more complicated. if you think about u culpability, we eliminate the well-known activities inside of
your. inside europe., maybe we should cross to a new administration of how israel looks of public opinion. they are differences between left and right. but the majority of the israelis i would say are in the pragmatic sound. -- pragmatic zone. first of all, most of the israelis, there are things that we will find a new attitude with the peace agreement and the attention and possibilities with all these public policy talks. , i would say there is a usednal symbol that trump in his campaign, like the
embassy that he is going to move to jerusalem and for most of the israelis, including from the left, it sounds reasonable. they are willing to accept the .utcome accept the e outcomes, but most of the israelis in jerusalem would like to see most of the embassies inside jerusalem. it is a lot just to move them inside tehe west city. israelisost of the to what isitude
called the clash of civilizations. [indiscernible] in the bottom line, the israelis see the trump attitude and understand the positive side. and the fourth point, i don't know if you heard nanhune ek a aa veme tg,ute skebo wa. mo othisel he t be pinatntn ts llbuma pplalofhe rlaraskinghaishe a's nd tondstd tt,heod h
s bl oni. wh y he mita -ai, u aay fr t u. misatn d fromrede tmp i ulsaagn,ubc opio ipo authe prmac theorie most of the israelis from the left and from the right, like it was said before, these are the leaders. a disagreement between the israelis and palestinians. most of them don't believe it is possible to breach the gaps. most of them are not willing to compromise. and so, on one side, the right
any kind of compromises or solutions to the israeli-palestinian conflict. the most important piece, that is facing domestic challenges. all, in the really political party bwe h a ,hhe o t jis pty e te othstng rit-ngn rait inheas wca sare parties.between -- which control on the strong white -- right.
today, we can see how netanyahu is fighting on the same vote with the same attitude, the same ideas and actually trying to as aibe themselves right-wing later that believes in the metaphors of the right wing. thatu add to that the fact netanyahu is under political investigation and under a lot of in these which comes kinds of situations, to therstand that he has problem to put something new to the table which will risk this provision, strong right-wing
leaders have control on the right-wing voters. lead tof those points the israeli dilemma. the israeli dilemma with donald is, first of all, if trump at to [indiscernible] lict,e conf [indiscernible] if you actually changes this in the eyes of the government of israel. secondly, if it is possible at in to offer a new attitude
the israeli-palestinian conflict. otherwise, mr. netanyahu comes advisers wouldg, policy, and the only thing that can find is actually the declarations of netanyahu about a two state solution, in which the eyes of many israelis does not exist anymore. it is very hard for a right-wing leader and even a left-wing to fluctuate such a number of settlers. is it possible to bring new ideas to the table? to break out of the box and put
ideas for a two state solution to the conflict out of view? maybe if you go back to the -- to spread the palestinian authority and minimize the conflict by expressions or a small amount of declarations, or even by -- to [indiscernible] the last point i would like to mention is the fact that in order to bring something in this the fact in israel, -- a political discussion about the vision is
without president trump -- political allies in the government. will be toldwhat to president trump. a big dilemma and netanyahu -- is -- a new idea will call voters to criticize them. those voters -- if we are going back to the senator -- netanyahu -- to make sure the elections take place in the -- keep his power,
[indiscernible] huge dilemma. thank you. >> ok, thank you. very useful. take you very much. with that, we will open the floor to your questions, if you could be kind enough to raise your hand and wait for the microphone. keep your weston's brief and identify to whom you are asking the question. yes, dan. wait for the mike and congratulations on your new position. this is for david makovsky. because you are rather privileged compared to most of us who are journalists and analysts in that you were in the state department as part of the state department team, what can
you share with us about the importance of the personalities involved right now at the start of the trump administration? rex tillerson's view is going to be super important, who his middle east experts are, really important. or is it your view that the way it looks, it is all up to president trump and perhaps two men who are close to him in his worldview, general mike flynn, his national security visor and his political advisor steam -- steve bannon. >> i have to speak with some humility, dan, because i think every administration will have its own personality and i think things at the beginning of this administration that we haven't seen at the beginning of others. but with any administration, it takes time to get their sea legs , and we cannot write things off in any way. we have to wait and see how things shape up and shake out a in terms of, who are the key
players. you are right about tillerson, he just started. we don't know who the deputy -- of-- deputy estate is, state is. we don't know how the state department will interact with white house. often, the white house -- they have got so many issues. how much can they do? sometimes, the policy is more anchored in the white house, sometimes it is more anchored in the administration. can go back to jim baker's time, it was very much a state department-driven policy because of the relationship of bush and baker. we can look at another model of george w. bush period, i am thinking to the republican period, where it was driven more out of the white house with condoleezza rice as national security advisor.
i am a little concerned about overgeneralizing and too much extrapolation. the only thing i feel certain about is the uncertainty to say until they put their people in play, until we know more about the interaction between the president and the secretary, the nsc and nea, it is a little soon. but there is a tone from the that is indispensable. it matters a lot who sits in that chair. there are a lot of judgment calls that they get the thumbs-up or thumbs down, even if they don't do all the nitty-gritty work. i don't understand -- underestimate the role of who is --the oval office arid office. with israeli out and palestinian policy -- i just want to be a little cautious in extrapolating. >> thank you. up front.
first, a short comment -- you had mentioned about president trump saying he wanted to destroy isis. you forget he also said he wanted to destroy the johnson amendment about the separation of church and state on funding. it is just vocabulary. makovsky,ask david and he mentioned about the palestinians needing to stop the incitement and encouraging funds to the survivors of the suicide bombers, i have seen increasing amount of material in the press about the role in encouraging this behavior of steadfast martyrdom and opposition and there has been some discussion about serious efforts to defund undera.
some have said if it is not there and can't do a job, it may make the situation worse. what is your view about the value of such a campaign? >> thank you. -- israel knows that a lot of kids who are in the schools are in those schools. if you tell israel that on one hand, they don't like it and they can give you a lot of chapter and verse on why they .on't like it outside, -- they will to you a lot of chapter and verse of why they don't think they are helpful. ask them the second question. would you rather end all aid to ask who is they going to fill the vacuum? who is going to educate? we don't have that kind of
money. ideald say there is an solution and we did a study on unruh many years ago. why is this issue singled out? that would be to me, ideal. someone has to deal with the refugee crisis. but just to say, i don't like unruh is only half an answer because you have to think about who fills it in. when israel doesn't see who the substitute is, they are not excited about pulling funding from unruh whenever i have looked into it. >> on this question, i think you post a bit of a red herring here. the real debate is not about the funding unruh, it is whether or not the functions of it appropriately fall under the unhcr. here, the ultimately real question is, should palestinian
refugees be subject to the same definition of refugee as refugees elsewhere around the world? which is what differentiates refugees that come under unruh, mainly palestinian refugees and all other refugees, namely it is an inherited characteristic that you can be third and fourth generation, you can be living wherever you might live around the world and still be a refugee. according to the unruh definition. this gets to the heart of the debate. i don't know anybody who is saying the end of the human services be better being close downom unruh, the schools, close down the hospitals -- i don't know anybody who is saying that. the debate is on a different set of issues. yes, on the left and we will come back to the right and the center. that is just the way we are. never been characterized as
on the left before, but thank you. thinkon about whether you president trump, and prime minister netanyahu can find common ground in the following way. coming out of eight years as you described as pressure on israel from the obama administration, also it. bank of time or the palestinians more and more went to the u.n. and other international bodies and governments to make an end run around things. they could have a common ground in saying, we are going to actually put more pressure on the palestinians. netanyahu's government is going to have more backing from us, perhaps in early moves regarding the relocation of the embassy to jerusalem, with mild statements about settlement activity within existing blocks. basically, the united states says we will block the
palestinians wherever else they might go and the only avenue to be pursued is a resumption of bilateral negotiations, which the trump administration is prepared to say, let's make a deal in that context. but the background regime shift with a very strong and aggressive message of, there is a new sheriff in town and we are putting a lot more pressure diplomatically on the palestinians. is that a common ground approach? >> i think in practice, you will see the u.s. wielding the veto pen more often than it did in the past eight years. i think the obama administration only raised the hand of veto. they only did one veto in eight years and it was on settlements in 2011. it abstained on is very view,versial and in my very misguided resolution in december 2016. i think yeah, ambassador haley and their team that the u.n. iske it clear
not the arena to solve this issue. view, they need to come up myh a positive approach -- fear is that if you just say, resume diplomatic talk, people say ok, but these people hate each other, they don't agree on anything. i am hesitant about putting all of the exit on the resumption of bilateral negotiations when i don't think it will lead anywhere. that is why nathan and i articulated the approach that dennis and i wrote in the transition paper which was to come up with something programmatic, something people can see is actually a change on the ground. just call for diplomatic talks in my view, is going to be very lame. but i totally agree with you about the u.n.. that is just going to happen. whether the u.s. declares it and in which ways, he will find ways i am sure, but i think that is
what will be the reality. the u.s. will be much more activist in pushing back at the united nations. i will add one more thought on this and you are all welcome to weigh in if you would like. conundrum forr the trump administration. the president, if you remember, in his campaign, he talked about -- i am going to negotiate the best deal ever. so i think yes, there will be a desire to have the parties get back to the table. shut off internationalization, shut off the u.n., get them back to the table. observers --ctive i like to say objective because that includes me and david and dennis. most objective observers, just conclude that the objective circumstances for success aren't there. and there are all sorts of other things you need to do. you need to build up an effective palestinian governance, a need to get some corruption under control, you need to do some economic stuff to build the situation in which
a real resumption of diplomacy can proceed. that stuff isn't as sexy as getting around a table and negotiating the best deal ever. so that would require a decision. and it will require manpower and will require internet -- intellectual capital and real effort. are they ready to invest that so maybe later in the term, they will be able to come back and reap the benefits of real diplomacy? well, i think that is a conundrum. >> that i just added -- and hopefully -- maybe you might not have meant this, but when i say about shut off the internationalization, i think israel has to do that for you. it was law that was passed just this week, we didn't have a lot of time to go through the issues, but it is telling to me in aid of netanyahu, the cabinet secretary and attorney
general, has said he won't defend in the courts and there is a report this morning -- i know we have a corresponding i don't know if it is true or false or what, but saying he is going to come out against it publicly, be proactively against it. it just seems to me this law is going to get overturned. i think it is something netanyahu had as a hole in the head before washington. it was outflanked by bennett and a lot of energy from the right is coming from its own party. he feels very much kind of caught between the whole thing evacuation,ek with israel have a lot of police injuries. there is a lot of dynamics on the ground that he went ahead and is counting on the courts to govern for him. it is an interesting dynamic. that's all i'll say. there willas
have to be some tough fluff love about the united nations, which i think will be good, i think the trump statement of last week was to say, don't associate me with the open checks tool. that is not where i am. i see more reverting to the bush administration than anything else. do you want to add anything here? >> yes, if i may. the fact there is a new sheriff of positive lot aspects in israel and possibly the israelis think he will change anything. something thelso israelis chair that there is one day a president trump who wakes up in the morning and decides he wants the nobel prize and will call netanyahu and say, look, i want to make israel great again,
let's pass a deal. find the line here on the map we know it is much more complicated. you idea today is to find a way but first time in 50 years, we are celebrating 50 years since the 1967 war. to decide what the israelis want without any pressure from outside. from that point, we need to --ide which parts we want ambitions to make it out of israel, which parts we are going to remain debatable areas. what are we going to do with the palestinians? how are we going to call them? in order to do those things, you need to look at discussion.
netanyahu and president trump, point, a, the starting new attitude that will change the fact that the ideal two state pollution -- solution as we know it from the 1990's is not feasible anymore. one could say it is because of settlement, one could say it is because of the palestinians. the peace talks in 2011, i was responsible for the blame game. the blame game is not important anymore. that it istant possible to bridge the gap and opportunity of need to thinkwe out-of-the-box the box. if israel will not do that, i am sure president trump is not going to find a different way
that will adopt the old ideas -- the bush administration or the obama administration, at the end , the conflict between jerusalem and washington. interesting. thank you. why don't we just very quickly, i will ask three people to do their questions and we will wrap up. yes there, yes in the middle, and yes right here. >> "washington post." i just want each of you to say the word about elliott abrams returning to government and to this issue. d.c. him as a mostly helpful force, a mostly unhelpful force, and what is the opinion of him from israel? thank you. >> very good. thank you. yes. i'm not usually considered in
the center, either. university of maryland. this is for david, mainly. you and others assume the palestinians would sort of, say the same. he is 88 years old. fors unlikely he will last g more years. there is no obvious successor. palestiniansbout want. what do you think will happen when he leaves the stage?
very good. yes, last. right here on the left. you've got a is it something that can be sold to the palestinian's there is new sheriff in town? the visitlis believe to the united states supports israel and shows publicly maybe there is something the palestinians will entertain or at least it will be a base of negotiations? great, ok. david, do you want to start? i'm just speaking on the
issue of expertise. elliott abrams would be a very important signal that someone who has experience in this issue will be very much at the center of administration policy. who was actually the architect of the bush letter versed inand is well a lot of these west bank issues. he is not starting afresh. this is not at all to denigrate new people come with maybe fresh eyes, of course, but adding him to that mix and that key thation, would be a sign here is somebody with experience who wants to really help out the new team. i think that would be, in my view -- i served in a democratic administration, but it would be
welcome across the board by democrats, republicans and the analyst community alike. which i associate myself most with in the analyst community. , paul'snd question question about succession. turns 82ow, abu mazen in march. he smokes two packs of cigarettes a day. i talked to one of the security officials said, i spoke with him. i said, great. i don't see on the verge of succession -- at a time of succession, megan decisions -- they are going to -- i just don't see it. in the middle east, they tend to look over the right shoulder, not the left. everyone jockeys for succession. i don't see one dominant successor. you could say that is true in the arab world.
some might say it is true in israel too. in the arab world or israel has ever allowed a number two to take such hold. so it is kind of more, not the exception but the rule. and i are where we are tend to see, because there is no obvious successor, the net effect is, i see some sort of modeled collectivist leadership -- call it a transitional leadership or no one is strong enough to dominate the others, just strong enough to block other potential successors. it is a protracted affair where if they don't hang together, they all hang separately. collectivism, it sounds so soviet. it is the middle east, it is all true. something transitional to help the palestinians get into a new
period worried don't forget, abu mazza when he was named in 2005, he had the history -- historical legitimacy and was elected by everyone. and it was a parliament. those are three things you don't have today. you don't have an obvious successor with that historical legacy, you don't have parliament and you don't have an election. there is a deficit here. i'm not just saying he is in the 11th year of a four your term. that all points to the fact that protracted thing. i'm sure someone will emerge at the end, but nothing immediately. point about state of mind, i don't think we are ready for a state. the whole issue is premature at this point. you would have to get into the five or five, what are the borders, what about refugees,
what about the juice from -- jerusalem, every one of these things is a political minefield. i think it is not realistic to come up with a bumper sticker -- even a good bumper sticker or a bad bumper sticker right now. it is more about, what you do right now? how do you move off of the utter impasse right now. have you give dignity to both sides, change dynamics on the ground but don't touch these supercharged final status issues that each one is a political minefield. have you navigate that? that is the question. elliott, i concur with david. , iuld elliott be appointined think he would substantially enhance the human capital of --ertise on these issues this is a complicated part of
the world. a complicated world, in general. i think elliott would be a major gain to the administration. second, abu mazen, what happens after he dies, there is every model, i could give you every speech. there is that sadat model. we didn't know who this guy was and he turned out to emerge as the big leader. there is the collective model that begins that ends at a different direction, there are the names everybody here knows. it could be told -- somebody totally different coming out of the security establishment. i do think what is likely is that when the dust settles, there will be a leader. far moreleader will be likely than the current leader to be able to take the decisions that will be necessary for peace.
not to disparage abu mazen, he made to distort -- historic decision. terror ledofficial by arafat against israel years ago. and he went into a different direction. there are all sorts of stuff that goes on, winking and nodding. there was a big decision that abu mohsen took years ago, that regrettably was the last big decision he took. you can't survive forever on the fumes of that decision. so that is one of the big reasons we are where we are. i --r state minas, the reality is if there ever or is a palestine, everyone recognizes it will be state minas like dozens of other states around the world. there are numerous states around the world that come into ious aspectith var
of their sovereignty circumscribed into their existence. it is really the definition of where the sovereignty will be circumscribed, to what extent, how, when, for how long. these are all matters for negotiation. it is not the big innovation, it is how you get there and there, i think the ideas that david and others have been talking about, i view as essential. that, i think you so much for contributing in today's event and thank my colleague david and thank you all for being with us today at the washington institute. [applause]
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russian government. >> how america lost its secrets. the man and the theft. >> he did enormous damage. i don't even know if his supporters say he did no damage. say he did- they enormous good. maybe he did some good. he started a national conversation. and he opened up a subject of interest. but i think where trump is certainly right is that this man has not faced justice and he deserves to face justice. whatever will be decided. announcer: sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's the -- q and a. president trump spoke to launch force me officials about the ninth circuit court of immigrationis order. he also talked about crime