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tv   Washington Journal Dinesh D Souza Discusses His Book The Big Lie  CSPAN  August 4, 2017 8:03am-8:51am EDT

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department in which i am very familiar. announcer: watch our interview 8:00the elaine chao at p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span radio, announcer: washington journal continues. stopping in d'souza today as he is discussing his book "the big lie: exposing the nazi roots of the american left. " who will get to the book in a few minutes. first your reaction to the grand jury that has been convened here . subpoenas have been issued related to the meeting between the president sun and the russian lawyer. what is your reaction? guest: it is a little bit of the frankenstein-rosenstein creation. because therenot
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is necessarily any incriminating evidence. i do not object to looking at it. been in d.c. since the 1980's, the independent counsel is tasked with a mission. if they say there is nothing there, and a sense he fails. he views his success is getting somebody, locking them up. there is a logic here that is the wholet makes process not necessarily a search for truth, but a way to vindicate the process. have concerns with this special counsel? can he conduct a special investigation? indications, and i admit i am a this level spectator of events, it looks like he is stocking his team with those hostile to trump. that is not inherently bad.
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i think it may well be that when you combine ideology with the inherent logic of a special prosecutor's agenda it becomes a stacked process. host: do think the process is more stacked when we see bills introduced in the senate to shield the special counsel from being fired? guest: yes. i think when the process gets going it is harder to stop. are trying toyou cover something up and have something to hide. thise been through judicial process myself for exceeding the campaign finance law. what happened is i gave $20,000 over the campaign finance limit to a friend of mine running for u.s. senate. it seems strange to say that i was naive about campaign finance. a pac, have given to
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but i gave to two of my friends and reimburse them. the government comes to you and says we will charge you with three things which carry five years in prison. if you plead guilty now we will drop to of the charges. the problem is whether or not you are guilty you have strong incentive to go along and plead to something even if you didn't do it. more thee it was prosecution issue. i've seen the process work. it is not necessarily a search for truth and justice measured for proportionality. victory is measured by what they can get out of it. host: in your case, what did you get convicted of? guest: i got a series of analgesics, the most serious was eight months in overnight confinement in a federal confinement center, i got a
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years of probation, and it makes you a lifelong felon. ordinarily i would say, alrig ht, but when we looked at it no american had been prosecuted or locked up for doing it. do you think your previous work was the reason why there was a special interest in you? guest: i think so. once i really stay 2016 movie attacks on thee movie appeared regularly on the on his personal website. shortly after the fbi comes calling. "the big latest book, v.a. lie," what is the story of this
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book? guest: the meta-story, the way that left is looking at child. since trump's election the big card is not the race card, it is the fascism card. the idea that trump is a fascist. is sort of hitler 1933. a demagogue promising to make germany great again. this is not just rhetoric. reagan andic called bush a fascist. this is saying that even though he won an election he is illegitimate. tactics that would be unacceptable, let's get the electors to change their votes, let's not go to the inauguration, let's mount a coup against child, let's have protesters block speakers from
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campus -- this would be normally unacceptable. but the people that think this is like fighting hitler in the 30's, anything is justified by any means necessary. host: can you define fascism and nazi is him? isst: fascism and naziism not the same. hitler rarely called himself a fascist. quintessential fascist never identified with socialism.tional fascism is the doctrine of a centralized state, a powerful centralized state running the economy and your life. nazism is fascism plus anti-semitism. fascism with a deep vein of racism and anti-semitism. host: we are taking your calls as we discussed this book and
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recent events. dinesh d'souza with us for the next 35 minutes. phone lines are open. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. .ndependents, (202) 748-8002 clearwater, florida, robert on the line for democrats. caller: i am retired military. i am appalled at this gentleman. i watched him many times on his fox one channel, american news all the time. for him to say that the left yearshatred, i served 24 i did not see that many in the military. for him to get on television and continue to make money off of
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acks of the lies that he spews, especially on the honorable man barack obama, and continue to support this liar in chief we have in office that put his whole career off of denigrating that honorable man. he is the one that has created havoc on our country with his lies, racism, with all of the separatist stuff he is doing. you know what, mr. dinesh? you do the same thing. host: that is your point, let's let dinesh d'souza respond. example of howan our political debate tends to break down a little bit. i wrote about obama and made a movie about obama.
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the movie i went to hawaii, kenya, indonesia. i was at the obama family compound, i interviewed obama's brother. i wanted to expose that obama was not a traditional civil rights guy. his perspective was anti-colonial, shaped by an international view of the world. this is in obama's own book. there was a hypocrisy to obama. he was demanding of americans we make sacrifices for each other. i said, here is obama's own rather living in a slum in nairobi. living in a hut where you stretch your arms and you touch the walls. there is something odd chanting "we are our brother's keeper" and here is his own brother and he hasn't helped him. obama and trump are opposites pursuing a different agenda. host: you said playing the nazi
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card stems from the election of donald trump. can one disagree with donald trump and not be a fascist? what tips it into fascism or nazism. you said those two terms are not the same. guest: i'm talking about the guys that wear masks, where bike locks asy weapons. if i show up on campus it is not surprising to have these dudes try to stop me from speaking. very often young people today don't even know what conservatives want to conserve. if you try to squeeze their point of view, the professors are there every day or they want to block me. this is a fascist tactic. paradoxically, it is carried out in the name of anti-fascism. i'm faulting those that justify
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extreme rhetoric and use it to legitimize otherwise unwarranted behavior. i am not saying every democrat is a hate speech monger. host: george, go ahead. caller: good morning. i think it is all obstructionism. i don't think they have anything on president trump worth taking to the grand jury. it is sad enough that people will not see the follow-up story and believe what they heard initially. i want to ask you one question. i am a wounded combat veteran. you didn't give that guy much time, but if a black person is on you let them go for as long as they want to go, and most of the time they say nothing. host: not true. we try to give everyone as much
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time as we can, but we have other callers as well. what is your question for dinesh d'souza? was he correct when he asked you those questions? guest: he is talking about the previous caller, i assume. we are dealing with someone on one side of the aisle. the political debate has become so divided. i would be happy to talk to rachel maddow but i would never get invited. each side talks to its own side. this is one of the few shows where you can talk to people on the other side. i'm not objecting to it. i agree with this caller that with trump the left point of view is they want to get him whether or not he did anything. let's say there is no underlying russia collusion. me "there'so call
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nothing there, leave it alone." he is telling the truth, but by comey,this to cal james he is obstructing justice. with nixon there was culpable knowledge. host: boko raton, florida. caller: i am afraid, mr. d'souza , you're making this a bridge too far. you have to go back to andrew jackson. obviously mr. trump has been friendly with the american nazis, with the kkk, david duke. of theomehow unaware other trends in our society, and
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what have you. i think you have to recognize dealings,n all of his historically, he does not pay subcontractors. he doesn't recognize certain realities. there is nothing there with russia, well let us see if there is nothing there with russia. you have paul manafort, all of the individuals who are lobbyists. you have the unannounced lobbyist for turkey. cabinet.turk in his essentially millionaires and billionaires who have no experience in any of the areas. , when he was nominated
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for energy secretary, didn't even know he was responsible for nuclear weapons. tost: outright to zoom in one or two of the key points. with regard to the business about racism, the clue clucks clan, david duke is a persona republicann the party. he is an outlier. robert byrd was the conscience of the senate, the mentor to hillary, her own term. obama and bill clinton went to his funeral to eulogize him. high official in the clue clucks clan. the ku klux klan was "for 30 years the domestic terrorist arm of the democratic party. it was a delegate to the convention that founded the
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clan, republican shutdown the clan, woodrow wilson revised the plan, and it was an extension of democratic terrorism." to pick on ragtag eyes and say they endorse trump because they don't have a job and he wants to make america great again, no. the ku klux klan has a history closely connected to the democratic party. "the fascismte card is used to intimidate -- thecans to denounce ultimate hate crime. in this book i turn the tables on the democratic left and show they are the real festus who use not to bullying and intimidation tactics to subscribe to a full-blown fascist ideology. you said calling someone that is the ultimate hate crime p or do
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you feel you condemn democrats for icing they are the nazis and the fascists? the tables,turning nazismo not use no , not referring to some vague definition that is not really right. it is commonly said that donald --mp is a fascist the case fascist because he is an ultranationalist. gandhi was a nationalist. mandela was a nationalist. how do we get a wrong definition? after world war ii when fascism was stained with a
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holocaust, those coming to the academy and the media knew it fascism was that they said fascism has always been on the left. we need to move it into the right-wing column. i am attacking at historical revisionism that moved it from the left-wing column. mussolini was a marxist. the leading socialist in italy. the nationalist socialist party. emphasized the socialism in national socialism, but the left has taken it out in a little bit of a whitewashing. host: good morning. caller: a few years ago i picked up a book. it was called "hitler's propaganda machine." it employed by the right leading up to the last election, probably the last 20 years with the conservative radio and confluence of fox news
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and big money put behind people. the big lie is one tells a lie that is so outrageous that no one would believe that you told the lie on purpose. then when that untruth is withdrawn the shadow of the lie remains. that is the playbook for the right in this country, the conservatives. they try to demonize barack obama. , i live in san diego. you had an up secure movie about president obama. articles a front-page about your tiny movie bashing barack obama leading up to the election. one of thet is problems in our country.
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, "2016: obama's america" is behind only michael moore's "fahrenheit 9/11." it is not that of scared. obscure. host: it is making some of the same points that you make in "the big lie" just on the other side. guest: many think that the big lie is a description of hitler's propaganda. when hitler's used the term the big lie he was not talking about himself. he said the jews were perpetrating the big lie. evil,r said jews are wicked, and trying to take over the world. he isitler is doing as
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taking the stuff that he did and blaming it on the jews. this is called transference. you take your own sins and project them on to others. that is what the left does. the left has a secret history of complicity with fascism and nazism. fdr sent members of his brain trust to rome in the 1930's to study italian fascism because he saw it as more progressive than the new deal. mussolini was a huge fan of fdr. fdr's book in an italian magazine and says he is a fascist. it is fantastic. he is one of us. it is history, it is indisputable, but it is not in the textbooks because they are written by progressives.
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?ost: is that coordinated are there meetings? explain how this process. -- this persists. about are not talking conspiracy. the way that ideas take hold in the culture. how do people get to know something that isn't true? is that theappens idea begins to circulate, .ypically in academia it reverberates through academia, it is picked up by the media, steven spielberg makes it into a movie. hollywood,ant in academia, and the media. it has three megaphones. that is how big lies get disseminated. people on the same side of the i/o find a theme to be useful,
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attractive, believable, and they run with it. host: you are interested not films, butumentary films as well to challenge this? guest: often ideological onlyges are translated not by macklemore. ideas come through romantic comedies, thrillers, the common is that theies businessman is the bad guy. it is shown in every movie. you get the idea that if you see a white male business man he will be the villain. host: how far are we from dinesh d'souza's romantic comedy? toe intoam dipping my the water. in the next few years i will be putting out feature films along with documentaries. i am trying to make a different kind of movie that hollywood
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typically makes. host: you're looking to make this book into a documentary? guest: movies are different than books. the book is an argument. the movie is a story. i have to ask, does this lend itself to a story? it lends itself to a very exciting story with stuff that people don't know. it is a story that is contemporary with historical depth. host: kathleen, republicans, good morning. caller: good morning. i am a black american woman who voted democrat all my voting life except this last time when i voted for trump. he is not an established politician. he is outside the establishment. that is why he is being attacked. the proof is in the pudding. the devil is always in the details. i live in the city of los
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angeles. no.m a native los angele if you look at the neighborhoods that blacks used to have, we no longer have those neighborhoods. the biggest lie is that the democrats benefited black america. they destroyed black america. we no longer have our neighborhoods. we are overrun by other groups, illegal immigrants. unemployment has always been in the double digits. i can tell when black men call into the show because you can recognize them by their voice. host: how can you recognize someone by their voice? caller: i can recognize a black man's voice.
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the tone is deeper and the content of what they are saying. they are attacking trump. the biggest lie is that the democrats have benefited black america. the democrats are destroying black america. host: dinesh d'souza? guest: i agree. i was reading a book about slavery. a book about the slave plantations. the historian describes the defining features of the old plantation. dwellings,mshackle roque and families, a great deal of violence characteristic -- broken families, a great deal of violence characteristic of the plantations. no one can get ahead. you are stuck in life. it struck me that not a whole lot has changed in the sense that if you walk through inner-city oakland, detroit,
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baltimore, those are the features of the old plantation in a new form. you have rogan emily's and -- broken families and dilapidated dwellings. we send in our cops and say fix it. you can't fix it, the problem is deeper than that. the democratic interest in blacks is votes. to get those votes you need a certain degree of dependency. that is unhealthy. host: greenbelt, maryland, good morning. caller: a lot of people misunderstand you. i think you are a business man. i am not sure what the product is you are selling. how, i have -- you talk .bout the condition you had
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you talk about president obama visiting kenya, i wonder how lived in dent obama kenya. why did you go to kenya instead of kansas? you went to kenya. you wanted to tell us you visited his brother who lived in a hut. , my parents are from -- a, tendency to is the
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think that people who do with they do are being financed. most of washington, d.c. is financed because there are nonprofits and donors to contribute to various causes. i do not have a single donor. no one gives me a dollar to do anything. if i prospered and enjoyed the american dream it is because i write books, i put them in stores, i give speeches, i make movies. why anybody.ed i sometimes wish i was, but that is not the case. my trial was not by jury. the government accused me of exceeding the campaign finance law and said we will accuse you of making a false statement to the government. i said what is the false statement? by encouraging us to believe the
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contribution was from someone else, that is a false statement. that carries five years in prison. who will take the risk of going to five years in prison? that would really your entire career. i pled guilty to the first charge to drop the second charge. that is what happened to me. no jury. dreams from my father" he talks about his trip to kenya which was one month long. in a book of 200 pages, more than 100 are focused on that trip. that is why i went. clearly, something formative happened to obama in kenya. not surprisingly he had a lifelong obsession with the father who was not there. his trip was an effort to find that man. he was weeping at his grave, and
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this is all in obama's own words. caller: good morning. i knew the say history of the democratic party, but not in that much detail. dering if you have seen the documentary "a wolf in sheep's clothing." it says a lot about the left and how they infiltrated the education system. i was wondering if you have seen it, and if you haven't, i would urge you too. guest: i will keep it in mind. i watch almost a movie a day. i will put it on my list. this book, just like the hillary about thenew stuff complicity between the left and the fascism and the nazis.
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i do not believe it is known even by educated people that a number of hitler's most genocidal schemes he lifted directly from america, the american democrats. we often go back to jacksonian democracy in the 19th century here the senior nazis who got together to write the nuremberg laws, laws that made jews into bannedclass citizens, intermarriage between jews and germans, and later discrimination. the nazis said we want to create the first racial state. one of the senior nazis, we have the transcripts, said we don't have to create the first. the democrats and the united states has done that in the south. they have jim crow. we need to take the segregation laws, the laws that for bid
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intermarriage between blacks and whites, all we have to do is cross out the word black and write the word jew, and we are ready to roll. it is not me drawing an analogy or a parallel, the nazis used the democratic blueprints to put in schemes for jewish discrimination that later led to the final solution. host: baltimore, maryland, an independent. caller: i just want to say to mr. d'souza, i do not disagree when you attack the left. my problem is you are being a hypocrite. the right is just as dangerous. if you look at the kkk and richard spencer the neo-nazis, they want to be republicans, conservatives. in my opinion that conservatives are just as dangerous as the liberals. to act like trump is an angel is crazy.
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it is your type of ideology that will lead us to a silve civil w. i am not disagreeing with you about the left. hillary is a crook and should be in jail. this country is about to head into a second civil war because of your ideology. guest: here we have something to talk about. i do not say that trump is an angel. he is a big tough guy. he's kind of a boss. my question is how did we get trump? the republican party has nominated straightlaced, bowtied guys. decent guys come yet converted into lucifer by the left. romney was treated like a virtual financial criminal.
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the republican said if we nominate a squeaky clean guy and you make him into lucifer, how do we fight your thuggish tactics? it is appointing someone who knows how to throw a punch. it is the breakdown of civility that began with obama and continued with hillary. i don't think that jimmy carter, truman, or jfk would have done the kind of tactics that obama did. unleashing the instruments of government against your opposition. that is the atmosphere that created trump. host: i want to ask you about commentary that was in the u.s. news and world report. one of the things touched on in the article is focusing on this book and you. democrats and of
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their treatment of american indians. that is an inspiration for what eventually happened. writestes d'souza mournfully about the genocide of indians in the early 19th century which i find curious because earlier he denounced the shame narrative in american history and stated there was no genocide by american indians. makes a lie at the left americans ashamed of their history. now he sees it littered with crimes and it is responsible for inspiring the nazi's catalog of horrors. guest: there is new wants going on here. when people accuse america committing crimes, genocide against the native americans, i would argue there is a fake genocide and a real genocide. the fake is the one based on columbus and the american founders. columbus did not perpetrate
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genocide against anyone. when the mullet man can't -- when the white man came to the continent he brought diseases he didn't know about to which the american indians had no communities. there was a massive transfer of disease. there is a book about this called "plagues and people." requires the intent to wipe out a population. i would contrast columbus's non-genocide, which the left is inconsolable about. the guy that was a genocidal maniac was andrew jackson. he took the indians. there was a series of treaties between the indians that had already been made. the indians were sitting on land granted to them by treaties. he breaks the treaties, drives the indians west, produces the trail of tears, almost wipes out the cherokees as a people.
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of genocide, in intent to wipe out a people, the actual wiping out of a whole or people, this does not apply to george washington, thomas jefferson, or columbus, but it does apply to the jacksonian democrats. that is why hitler appeal to the jacksonian example. he said let the jacksonian democrats did i will do to the russians. slaves, the host: i wonder what you would make of trump's interest in andrew jackson, the president praising him. postedtion on twitter he a picture of jackson in the oval office and made a pilgrimage to his tomb after being sworn in. needs this is why trump
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to read my book. jackson is not someone to get excited about. trump visited the jackson plantation. i visited three libraries, most of them propaganda. in the clinton library you have all of this data, the number of computers when he came in, the number of computers when he left. then the towering image of clinton like "i did all that." ridiculous. i can see how trump was suckered into thinking that jackson was a great guy. i would take jackson off the bill and replaced him with a good republican, harriet tubman. guy,w jackson was a bad harriet tubman was the real heroine. helping us out with the
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-- thet-republican american people political america,nd the [indiscernible] to inform the people whoever this person could be looked at as opportunist at this point. on has the upper hand keeping dirty little secrets? democrats whok has ideas for their seats to give them up if they can't hold congress accountable and wasn't being revealed, they as well as republicans are in the same boat. them to leave their
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seats and have people willing to come to help this american situation out. on a: i want to pick up point made earlier about white power and the notion that white power guys today are in the trump cap. -- trump camp. on the left you have an umbrella called multiculturalism. the affirmation of ethnic identity. , hispanics, feel proud of who you are. asians, feel proud of who you are. the blame, you take for what everyone else has suffered and feel really bad. multiculturalism as an umbrella excludes whites. if it included whites i believe the ku klux klan and richard spencer, these guys would be in a democratic camp. they would confirm the same
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ethnic nationalism the groups confirm.raged to because it is manic he and the distinction that ethnic groups are good and whites are bad, it drives the white nationalists out of the republican party and -- the democratic party and they alternative is trump. the kinds of things that richard spencer and these guys believe is that he belongs over there. the reason he is not there is there is no room for him. host: the line for republicans, go ahead. caller: i would like to congratulate mr. d'souza on his thoughtful and careful decision-making in the way that he analyzes situations. the first caller that you had today was a democrat. he immediately came out with the race side trying to bait mr. d'souza into saying something
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about his eastern indian heritage, not being in the military, and so forth. a typical tactic. mr. d'souza, this has to do with the media. the first will always focus on tosia and trump, at least 15 20 minutes. you mentioned that you would never be invited on msnbc or cnn because they know your political background. the media in america has so much power and influence. how will you break it? i know you said you would try to get your own movies, but how can america take back the most states, thef the media, and make it unbiased and straightforward presentation of information? host: the last minute. guest: the nazis had a term that
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meant coordination. what they try to do was bring the cultural institutions of society, the universities, the media, the filmmaking industry, into harmony with the nazi ideology. i think we have political correctness. it is enforced with ruthless intensity. there is a group in hollywood that are 2000 conservatives that meet in secret. people actually wear disguises. if it were known, they would .ever work in that town in a way i'm not so scared of the sons of berkeley on the street, i am more scared of the studio bosses and their power. same with the media. because of technology and social media there are ways to get information out that bypass the media. if the ordinary citizen says i don't have that much power, i
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only have 30 friends on facebook. they have 30 friends so you are a mini publisher. it may start small, but it can get bigger over time. host: the author is dinesh d'souza. we appreciate your time stopping by. next, joined by the executive director of the civil rights group color for change. talking about how his group is against the trump administration on everything from affirmative action to voting rights. announcer: american educator and tea party activist chris van hollen is our guest. >> everyone has an idea that the federal government is out of control. the most asked question that i get as i teach, what you suppose it is? would we do about it?
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have we been teaching the constitution properly? for the last 150 years? we would know what to do. announcer: she is the author of several books. during our live three-hour conversation we will take phone facebookeets, and questions. what in-depth on sunday from noon to 3:00 p.m. eastern on booktv on c-span2. sunday night on q&a -- >> i've never heard of him. i wanted to know how this man could have had the courage and determination to find a way out of slavery. i was intrigued and could not stop reading about him. announcer: looking at the life
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of robert smalls who escape slavery and became a member of congress. >> he served five terms. there was a bribery charge against him at one point. he never fully recovered. that, in my opinion, is one reason why he is not better known. announcer: on c-span's q&a. c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. "washington journal" continues. host: you may have seen rashad in the past. this is his first time on "washington journal." what is


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