situation in the middle east. the forum includes author david the author of "revolution for dummies: laughing through the arab spring ." we will also hear from former counterterrorism analyst malcolm nance. >> hello everybody. i am in los angeles. checking my microphone, thank you. can you hear me now? this is a debate we do every year. are on the portions middle east. tonight how weat got here and what we have seen as a problem that cannot be

.ontained from spreading spreading through europe to our own shores from the middle east. i will start with david horwitz. david, you have some strong ideas have thought we got here. i am hoping you will also have some ideas on how to get out. david: first, let's look at what we are talking about. since the obama administration, 500,000 people have been slaughtered by isis in the middle east in the name of islam's god. and yemen have become terrorist states. begin with a dominantit has be,

which -- regime. it has been replaced by russia, with syria and korea. the reason for this is obama's strategic patience. red line to stop him from using chemical weapons. calling the secretary of state aid democratic reformer. obama drew the red line. to stop them from using chemical weapons. obama administration

overthrew the immoral aggression. overthrew could off eat -- overthrew khadafi. forel is now a safe haven al qaeda and isis. obama tried to withdraw american forces from iraq. the general said we needed 20,000 troops. obama had declared we would retreat from the middle east. he comes he blamed the united states is the problem. been 20,000 american troops they said isis could've been stopped. 500,000 people would be

alive and also 20 minute refugees were created because of obama's policies in the middle east. we had an american ally in egypt. when the iranian people revolted in 2009 and ran into the streets he was absolutely silent because his strategy was to -- he concluded his betrayal of the iranian spy deal --, conducting a [indiscernible] -- might to remind you --timents reflect general

generally 63 million voters in this country. i am talking actual votes. donald trump has been in office for six months. i am talking about actual votes. >> let's -- donald trump has been in office six months. he has put together as you know a coalition. mosul has been liberated which was the chief stronghold of isis in iraq. raqqa is ready to collapse. bemillion did not have to exiled.

when the united states abdicates its responsibility, it is the toy great power in the world [indiscernible] -- and aligned with iran. by the way, two people are on this panel who remain ignorant of these policies. [laughter] catcalls and applause] 500,000 people slaughtered because of these policies. and more applause. set the tone. >> ok.

thank you for that. you set the scenario here. >> call me crazy. >> can i say something? david talked about the trump administration policy in the middle east to assemble a coalition of the united states. saudi arabia was the first country he chose to visit. was that an accident? >> let me just say one thing. one thing david conveniently left out was the iraq war. [applause] with the united states and the growth of extremism. to saudi trump went arabia on his first trip here is the reason we should be concerned. arabia's senate will fight extremism. on the surface, we should applaud that.

they have been the root cause of extremism. they are investing themselves in these sunni jihad division all over the middle east. convinced that he completely understands what that is. maybe david or some yells can explain that to him. we can look at just the fact that he went there and he announced a big military aid. that was a big deliverable from his trip. had beentary package in the works since long before david trump took office. there was one important coming up. he allowed that military package to insert itself in the war in yemen and helped with equipment they used to further that conflict. again, we'll give him the benefit of the doubt. maybe does not know that. there are a lot of dangers to

look out for, i think, as it relates to donald trump's engagement and saudi arabia. his interest in being close to the saudi family. his first trip, i think that is cause for some concern. >> you are kind of a counterterrorism expert. you appear regularly on nbc. looks like the war in syria is at least turning down a bit. isis is limited. the caliphate is limited. raqqa is about to fall. but this is not over. i am concerned about the future. i spend a lot of time in iraq myself. argue about whether or not the u.s. invaded iraq, most think it was a bad idea. we think about whether we should have left in 2011.

what should our platform be here? where should the u.s. be now and moving forward? >> i think it is fascinating. let me turn my microphone on. i think it is fascinating to hear these various perspectives. certainly davids, because i have a very different perspective than most players. i am a war fighter. i am in intelligence work fighter as well. i am a practitioner of the dark arts. ] pplause >> i go wherever bad guys need to go. have 35 yearsd, i in the middle east. i just returned from seven years of living in the middle east with a family. i speak many dialects of arabic and i have been involved in every war and combat action

since 1983. now that i have put my expense into respective, i have some things to say about that. of the us saw in all accusations that fly back-and-forth, all of these things do not happen in a vacuum. isis did not move back because barack obama was president. these are the fifth generations of al qaeda. al qaeda started in 1988. that was at the end of the afghan insurgency war. it was done in order to stoke the passion of americans to [indiscernible] -- islamist, is homophobic who believe that islam is a body was divided. we all know, certainly i know. i lived in the trenches. i have blood with soldiers.

i have seen them married off. i have bought a goat. i have seen -- you have to have the goat for the wedding, man. i shot in the air when it was time for them to get married. these are important things, man. and, putting that into the perspective of the counterterrorism monday continuum of everything that has happened since 9/11, of which i was also a witness, victim, and rescue her. i know with these people are doing. i have been working on this mission since 1988 nonstop. now my job is to explain it to you. a manifestation of the invasion of iraq in 2003. it manifested itself because the government of iraq it best out

of iraq. we could not stay there when they force us out. they came about through their own sectarian passion. america did not do it except for the fact that we invaded iraq in 2003, right? the problem is being solved. barack obama started the solution. genetic longhand where we bombed the hell out of them. you see the bombing of mosul, the bombing of raqqa, deep denigration and dissolving of isis as a caliphate was eight sustained years of those policies and then when the isis manifested itself in 2015, we carried out 30,000 plus was the lastich six months of allowing the iraqi army to go when and they are the ones bleeding on the ground to divided -- who defeated isis on

their own ground. they are the ones fighting for raqqa. so, we can pat ourselves on the back and say donald trump didn't i know. the u.s. air force and the iraqi army are doing it. your bring about the end to isis . in another year, that organization will cease to exist inside of iraq and syria. it is oaken a la for them. they will not survive. andpt for their wives children, except that is the next generation of trouble was. many of them are americans, russian, german. whatever. they have kids and these kids are living in refugee camps. we carried out action in this administration where we cut the funding to the free syrian army. the last vestige of what came

from the revolution of syria and we essentially just turned syria, everything west of raqqa, over to the government of a sodden and russia. -- over to the government of assad and russia. those guys we screwed because we cut the funding, they will start thinking about the united states as a terrorist target in the future. we have to keep up the kinetic warfare. i take better claim that donald trump is using more of my policies on syria because he told time magazine last year the last book you read was "defeating isis." it said we need a joint arab coalition to defeat isis. that is just me bragging. but, it it had pictures in the back. [laughter] [applause]

>> the funny thing is, it it had i'll had beend implemented. i know you paid attention to the maps. i have written three books about it. go after the ideology of the and al the cult of isis qaeda. they are in a apocalyptic cult. >> the last six months, all of they want to believe they are the executors of god's will to bring about the end of time. greatest allies are those people in this country and the 1.6est to say it is billion muslims who are the problem. no, they are not. we know what these muslims want. a 2017 coral.

torithey do not -- a 2017 -- a 2017 toyota corolla. what they do not need is to have a small fraction of a fraction of a fraction and be equated to people who do not follow the to rely onou have the intelligence community to come and tell you straight that ae guy sitting to my right is muslim. been 9/11, we have fighting the defense of islam. not just our own defense. protecting islam from this crazy cult is the only way we can be defended. why have i been fighting for these guys to my right and to my -- saudi's, by

the way, david are muslim. the kuwaitis are muslim. areybody in this region muslims. so were the enemies or are the allies? that is what these administration is doing wrong. they are mistaking them for enemies and erika said -- and they are facilitating the next generation of terror. [applause] i want to turn to you. you were trained in stanford and other places. your expertise is in the, of torture in particular. we spent a lot of time in turkey and the border of syria. the syrian war may be ramping up or slowing down. when the complex are over, these people are not suddenly fixed.

there are hundreds of thousands of people who are horribly traumatized. what does that mean for a future? how can we handle that part of this? there are millions of refugees throughout the middle east from not been welcomed by the other middle eastern countries. it has been mostly on the west to handle this problem. what do we do with these people who have been psychically tortured for years and years? we have on our hands in global health crisis with transgenerational implications. we have on our hands a global health crisis with transgenerational implications. public, stranger to the the stories of ptsd and war

traumatized veterans returning. the amount of trauma, suffering, torture that many of these pages have experienced -- they are a very resilient population. speaking to what you said earlier, how are they supposed to thrive in resettlement? currently meet the community needs that they had if we cannot change our narrative? it truly starts with that. there is so much being done that will continue to be undone by that narrative being reinforced. that is most likely the most toxic aspect of what we can do as a community. protective is the factor. that is what got them through the horrors of what they experienced. closer eyes and think for a

second. if you had to leave your home, your house is being bombed, your health falls apart. you pick up your children's bodies and you are running, trying to corral the rest of your family. point, we need to change that narrative. there is nothing that we can do in a rehabilitative sense that contract that component. being weaponize. of induction patterns traffickers and colts are very similar. they prey upon traumatized, vulnerable communities. it is that narrative that reinforces the very thing that we do not want. it strengthens it. if i could just -- talk a lot the women and children who survived. these children, particularly male children will be susceptible to the next

generation. how do you deal with that? >> there is a huge issue. i would love to be able to answer that concisely. i am looking from an overarching perspective. protected. they are waiting for years in respect to trying to be resettled. upon resettlement, being in communities where they are not welcome. they have a short amount of time to meet standards that are required of them in resettlement, paying back their criteriaeeting certain . for them to thrive is to be welcomedd an -- welcomed and integrated. thing that i think we can do as a public, the counter narrative piece. the details, we could sit here all day from the policies to the

therapeutic and medical treatments. it is a system. it takes a village to raise a child. it is a systemic approach to rehabilitating any trauma survivor. this --overloaded by erodeed by this narrative. the bullying of the children. where a child has been radicalized domestically or ofrseas, and immense amount bullying has been present in their profile. it is just that. i can give you this complex, drawnout argument or i can -- to yourumanity humanity and compassion. that is what i represent. the humanitarian piece. that example that

i can give you. that is where we need to begin. none of it can thrive without that component. >> it is hard to keep that human component in mind when you're looking at figures of 100,000. -- 400,000. you are on the security council under president obama. usually -- you took a huge bet. the bet was if we drop the sanctions, somehow iran would normalize. would become a respectable and trusted citizen of the world. two years into that deal now. how do you think the bet is paying off? >> thank you for having me. i approach these conversations with a lot of humility because i do not think i am qualified, but i will try.

we try to get them to help me learn. bit not think obama made a -- but that iran would make -- become a good actor. we could use an unrelenting series of sanctions to pressure iran into a diplomatic solution that took us from an incident where obama took office, there were concerns that iran was weeks or months away from a breakout scenario or they could achieve a nuclear weapon. during the first year of the administration, we disclosed the fact that they had a covert facility used to enrich uranium. obama saw this as a threat to israel, to many of our allies in the region and in a testable -- not acceptable scenario for the

united states. to get, we did not have to that point. we were able to cut this deal internationally. an international organization came in and inspect things. facilities and it is working. the way we know it is working is that the trump administration have to reassert that program every 90 days with congress. the intelligence community knows it is the right thing to do. --ould just oppose north korea is a country where we have had no access or diplomatic overtures, no progress in any way. we know they are working on a

miniaturized warhead. they launched an icbm two days ago that could apparently fly far enough to hit los angeles, pasadena. that is an and or mostly dangerous -- an enormously dangerous scenario for us. we have allies like japan and south korea. to bet he made should try resolve our problems to dramatically has paid off in iran. i think there is hope in the long-term that that can lead to additional normalization of the relationship. let's be clear. separate fromre saudi arabia. there are saudi extremist groups.

guys ornot exactly good say a lot of things rhetorically that are threatening to israeli allies. i think what we are lacking in the u.s. is a couple things. one is patience. one is the ability to view world events through a prism other than the prism of washington or the united states. it is dangerous when we talk about the rise of isis or al qaeda as something that was solely manifested through i think that ignores the fact that people in countries who are making their own decisions and self-determination is an important thing for them. thank you. [applause] tonighty on this panel

has accomplished things in their own ways. [indiscernible] [applause] why.me tell you not only a is he the jon stewart of egypt, which is an achievement, not only is he a cardiac surgeon, it's true, but he was almost late for the panel today because he was coming from the hospital where his wife just gave birth to his son. [applause] >> most middle eastern or czar late unless they are making -- are middle easterners

late unless they are making bombs to than they are on time. i am like another middle easterner who enjoys being [indiscernible] by every single administration. [laughter] off is the pisses me hypocrisy. like you said an incredible point about the ideology. in 1988, it came from somewhere else and from your biggest ally in the middle east, from saudi arabia. when king abdullah died last year, every single american in office, future official, past official, just hurried to his funeral. [indiscernible]

terrorist twor a days later. i don't understand what the hell he is doing. about syriak here but totally ignore human. yemen.lly ignore it is 2017, people, and there is cholera in yemen because seti is bombing the shit out of this country with the blessing or while the administration is yelling on because it's fine. they are our allies. you are the biggest ally with them because they give you oil. i find that critical. [applause] i want to expand the problem is little bit. we speak about islam this and a slam that. it's not about -- and islam that. religion.about

it is not a battle to restore islam. it is the battle to restore expression. the military regime is not secular. these are dictatorships who also use religion. [indiscernible] in sudan, when the dictatorship was not going for him anymore, he announced sharia in 1981. in 1980, actually, when he wanted to have unlimited times for election, he announced sharia. in pakistan, 1981, he announced sharia. there are people who are fighting for a secular view for islam, people who are fighting this extreme interpretation of islam. and you know who is putting them in jail? not the ayatollah or people embark. burqa.- or people in a

it is the military secular regime. the west administration time and time again, because each president comes here for four years, two-and-a-half years in, he started three campaigning. donald trump started campaigning after the first week. [laughter] nobody wants to get his hands dirty and it is just the status quo. who will keep it safe for us, keep it stable? on and on and on. if you want a stable middle east, it is a secular, free at least. [indiscernible] will just come along. that's it. [applause] david, i know what tommy's

views were. think, quickly what you where the iran deal is going. andbama who ran proselytized on america pulling out of iraq. [indiscernible] iraq.da was defeated in the united states had 20,000 troops there. all hundred thousand, mostly christians and [indiscernible] would be alive today. [indiscernible] very knowledgeable. beginning with an apocalyptic cult.

read al jazeera polls and surveys in the arab world,, you find that somewhere between 20% and 40% of muslims supported osama bin laden against the west. that's between 300 million and 600 million people. it is a much bigger problem than malcolm suggests. you asked me a question. >> the iran deal -- question. >> the iran deal. > iranian regime has killed more americans than anywhere in the world. in the middle of negotiations -- by the way [indiscernible]

in the middle of negotiations with iran, their spiritual chanted death to america. they are chanting death to israel all the time. the idea that obama would build his whole middle east policy -- and of course, they had a path to a nuclear weapon in their isolated. it was listed with no quid pro quo. iran is responsible -- it took , i am no big fan of the saudis, but that is the situation there. the duties are supported by iran. >> if they had done nothing,

they would have gotten a nuclear bomb. was think obama [indiscernible] that america was the problem. he made it very clear that we were not going to put troops on the ground. we would not exert influence, except for when it came to overthrowing american allies, like egypt. [laughter] by the way, egypt supported the muslim brotherhood, which is the fountain of the jihad against the west. the muslim brotherhood. it is where al qaeda, where osama bin laden learned his jihadism. it spawned hamas. isis is a monster, an apocalyptic cult. it calls for the extermination of the jews.

i have always said that the majority of muslims are peaceloving people. p thatslamophobia craop happened to be invented by the muslim brotherhood to silence critics. there is a big problem. i can go on about it. when i read the numbers, how many people were killed in the iraq war? like half a million? i don't know. maybe a million because of detentions. a lot of people were killed because of the american intervention in iraq. on the nemesis of the muslim brotherhood in egypt.

but i can tell you this lie was created in our own media, picked up by alex jones, and then returned to media. [applause] although that about obama becoming -- being the cofounder of isis extended and we are happy to announce that we started the cradle of civilization. no, we started the cradle of the end of civilization. [laughter] because people are chanting death to america, you know, you know who else chance of that? that?nts pakistan. i really want to come here and say, all right, guys, do you want to just go and intervene? i am living in this country now

and i don't want to look for another billion dollars of military spinach or -- military expenditure. screw the people back there. i don't care. but how much longer do you want to go in? do you want to invade iran? i don't understand. it didn't work before. it didn't work in vietnam. it didn't work in afghanistan. it didn't work in iraq. it doesn't work, invading other people's country. [applause] later, oh,ght years obama created a vacuum. that is ignoring the problem. i'm sorry. >> we will take questions from this microphone here.

malcolm coming ago one minute. off, we have a saying in the military when we run into people who do not know what they are talking about. [indiscernible] civilians. [laughter] think before you talk, read before you think. from. where the idea came i survived suicide bombings. i read the statistics. iran is not the number one killer. it is the muslims we invaded who were in iraq. they fought us for 11 years.

the government of iraq told us to leave. rhetoric, you cannot your way through history and back. [applause] we have a thing called [indiscernible] it's called intelligence. go frickin' read it. >> i would like to respond to the personal insults here. [laughter] >> in one minute. >> first of all, the problem here is the fact of this panel is ridiculous. he has a point. let him speak. >> you don't ridicule one person.

look, the reason we didn't have iraq was0 troops in because obama didn't want them there. that's the reason. al qaeda was defeated in a wreck. >> -- in iraq. >> they were not. i was on the ground. we left that active. do not bring that up. it's wrong. i was there, too. >> hello, everybody. [laughter] i am a coptic orthodox christian from egypt. i'm sure you all heard about the recent bombings, almost monthly, in the churches in egypt and

across the middle east. does the panel believe that the hatred of christianity and judaism in the middle east contributes to the mess in the middle east? against christians and judaism in the middle east. >> there is hate against other muslims, too. people who commit acts of violence against and -- against christians would not think twice before they commit an act of bounce against sick of people, against other muslims. and there is a lot of people -- against secular people, against other muslims. there is a lot of people. it is perfect because you don't have freedom of speech over there. there is a lot a hate against christians and shia.

[indiscernible] one they came out two weeks ago and he said we need to take a break from cursing the christians and the jews in order to curse the shia. [laughter] to focus on al ah to hate to the shia. it was nurtured over years. hate about westborough baptist church. think about that. >> thank you. so, last month in june, said theykurdistan were going to referendum on independence. how thisour opinion on

would add another independent nation or a whole other issue with a nation with significant populations living in three other countries opposing ideologies, especially with leaders in the west who support the iraqi kurds? >> they had the referendum in september? >> yes. spokesperson, we always said [indiscernible] that was probably pretty naive and did not acknowledgment was happening on the ground. this goes back to something that a lot of people have mentioned on this panel. we have a certain belief system in the united states, even people engaged in the national security community, about how government should be and how governing should be, that it should be centralized, because that is how it is in the united

states. but in reality, that is not the way it is in many countries in the middle east. and now we don't have much time, we can go to post world war i on this particular issue. there is an inevitability in it. if you go back to what joe biden was suggesting, a three partitioned iraq. people thought he was nuts. as an average person, i think it could be for the best, and could be even smart for them to be their own. obviously, it has been building for quite some time. >> thank you. what can be done to keep the

home and safe basically? >> [indiscernible] ok? we can't stop the war. we can't keep everybody away from this nation. when you start off by saying something like the word muslim ban, that's like saying that the constitution means nothing. every person in this room, unless you are a native american or an f american -- on african-american, because we were a hostages, you are all immigrants in this nation. there were periods when other people didn't want you in here. the great syrian migration is not the 10,000 people who are coming here now.

it was in the 1980's when there were hundreds of thousands of them. these are things we need to understand. we can choose to compromise everything america stands for and everything i have defended you for or we can find some way that we take the word muslim and out -- muslim ban out. terrorism band, ok. fine up untiljust donald trump started opening his mouth. [applause] >> thank you. since this is a middle east panel, i would like to ask a civil question. >> there are no simple questions. peace -- alestinian [indiscernible] [laughter] >> what is the possibility of

there being a by state solution? -stateat -- a two solution? and what has to happen? >> i was working in the state department with john kerry when we went at the middle east peace process last time, prior to jared kushner's after it currently ongoing. it is like the golden ring that every american president and every secretary of state wants. what we discover through the process, which i believe people who work on these issues and experts in the region would have already known, is that it is tough to say a safe solution while netanyahu is. prime minister -- is prime minister. here's the reason why. he is someone who is concerned

about his own politics. there are people like that in the united states as well. he is in a sense the mayor of jerusalem. he is not willing to make tough choices and to put his political future on the line. it is not that the other side is faultless either. there is a problem with leadership on the palestinian side as well. that is a core problem. every american problem. -- american president will chase this. whether the united states should be the arbiter is a larger question as well. >> we cannot negotiate these are people who want to kill you. gaza,n the west bank and a terrorist regime that wants to destroy israel, [indiscernible] completely invented people. >> so that people on the gaza strip are all terrorists?

of palestinians vote for two terrorist parties. >> did jesus visit those imaginary people? [laughter] the conflict is a 70-year undovoked aggression to the un's solution. border. back to 1947 that is the first un's solution. terrific. aggression. israel did not occupy an inch of arab territory. [indiscernible] what about [indiscernible]

defeated hither because of his aggressions [indiscernible] >> gentlemen, we are not going to solve the israeli-palestinian problem here. let's move on. thank you, ma'am. thank you for your question. gentlemen in the red hat. >> there is a reason they do it at camp david. [laughter] >> thank you for coming. i studied international law. i wanted to ask about this narrative that some of you on the panel are posing, that there is a microscopic minority of some cultish very to this long. variety oftish islam. that goes against what i've been

learning. 2013 published results showed percentre was a native -- and 80% who agreed [indiscernible] then't understand why are partying with -- parting with islam when islam does not support minorities. research wassame happening in the 1950's and 1960's. i agree with you. there is a disease, a virus in the interpretation of islam. theou look at the bible and

old testament, there is a [indiscernible] christian communities have evolved beyond scripture and they had their own of interpretation of that. same. take the search and -- if you take the same pew research [indiscernible] muslim women are more likely to have a masters degree and to work in professions than men. i agree with you. think, and i'm sorry to offend everybody, but each has problems, to. -- too. are christians in egypt

who are living under the eyes and the nose of a military leadership. their supervision of the region is corrupt. my problem is you have to come back [indiscernible] it's a fight for freedom of expression more than anything. it has to come from within, which is hindered by the same dictatorship that is supported by the administration. [applause] >> thank you. thank you to everyone else on the panel. thank you all. [captioning performed by the

national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] announcer: c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> washington journal is next. we will look at today's news and take your calls. this afternoon, a conversation on u.s. counterterrorism strategy live from the american foreign policy council. tonight, a review of the u.s. supreme court term. coming up, a look at options. two guests.d by

defense of democracies. and then a conversation the trump administration in the freedom of the press. we talk to bruce brown from the reporters committee for the freedom of the press. be met with fire, fear he, and frankly, power, the likes of which this world has never seen before. thank you. ♪ president trump of the statement about north korea comes after reports that the created a missile that can fit inside an intercontinental ballistic missile. -- all of these happening yesterday and in the next hour, we want to get your thoughts on the development to north korea. not only with the