and be very innovative and we are hopeful that some of these new tools will help us get to that point. thank you all very, very much. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> i would like to thank again an and that incredible group of panelists who i think, in just such a powerful way, gave us a sense what a new paradigm can look like if we cast our eyes on what has been happening in miami, what the experiences of those who have been through our system and really are pleading with us to try to do things differently, what sense of urgency that create, and also the importance

of recognizing the human element in everything we do and the need and quicklyferently about how we address these issues. themes in mind, we are very pleased to have with us and incredibly distinguished group of individuals who will continue our conversation as we start to think about what is the role of enforcement in addressing these issues, what is the role of prosecutors as we grapple with the issues that were put before us, and so we are pleased to have it does a number of individuals who are going to be speaking about this. we have ron bruneau who is the second vice president of cit international. we have attorney general tj donovan who's joining us from the great state of vermont. is a professor

of practice in criminology and justice at loyola university of new orleans, and as importantly, if not perhaps more importantly for this discussion, has spent many years heading of the police department in new orleans. we have lavern miller who is the senior project associate with policy research associates, and we have travis parker, who is also with policy research associates. i think i'm going to just launch ahead. ron, start our conversation with you. we have a plentiful number of rons with us today. ron, we heard a little bit from rebecca and others about that all-important front door of law enforcement. and the role that police play as the first response when

individuals are in crisis. justin talked about that as well. i would like you to help us think about how should law enforcement think about their role in that first critical moment of crisis and response, and how do they balance attending to the needs of the community, while not criminalizing the individual who struggles with mental illness? ron: everyone ford they this opportunity to be with you this morning. on?his one good morning. this is coming to you in stereo. [laughter] thank you, miriam, and the loss -- law school. i apologize for being a native new orleans in, which means most of you won't hear have our

understand half of what i say. i was a police chief in new orleans for four years, i was chief of the washington state patrol for three years and i grew up in the new orleans police department. been a wonderful experience for me, but my life has been in law enforcement. i'm proud of being chairman of the law enforcement leaders, housed in the brennan center. sun wu is also here. great she is coming for the afternoon. >> here is one of the things that struck me and really made the point. in national, we were having a serious problem with a lot of things when i first got there. one of the problems was a lot of people were acting out in inappropriate ways, raking minor laws of the city.

not an uncommon story. the business community and the residential community, as part of community policing, we are not want to just tell you what the priorities are. we're going to coproduce safety with you. after being in tens of thousands of community group meetings in 34 years of american policing, a lot of america has empathy for people, but they don't have a lot of patience. becomes, i want you to remove these people from in front of my business. i want you to remove them from in front of the park where i bring my children. i want you to remove these people from in front of my home. instabilitiesit -- i want you to do something about it. -- he said ma'am,

let me be perfectly clear with you. i'm giving people a life sentence two days at a time, and i hated. it's not what i signed up for. that's not why i became a police officer. but in our community, the only alternative we have for these many events are to bring people to jail. they go to jail, two days later they recover enough to be back out on the street, and i see them again on day four. that is absolutely what is going on in america. i am a fan and a believer in cit. we have been doing de-escalation's since 1980 when i first went to the police academy. of course it can get better. can cit be helpful? of course it can be helpful. but in some ways am very concerned that if we see that as the solution, we are not even scratching the surface of this problem. police officers, generally, and , as soon as ithis

say something good about the police, people say you must be asleep because the police are all bad. we have some officers who do things that require arrest and suspension. tonight, when we go to sleep, almost anywhere in america, the police officer riding by himself, somewhere around 25 years old, almost unilaterally with no formal college education, and in this august room of people who are trying their best to figure out the most complex circumstances and argue what to do with mental health, we will go to sleep tonight and hope and pray that it 2:00 in the morning, the least educated, with diffused alternatives, is going to make the exact right choice every time they find someone in a crisis. isn't that a bit embarrassing? that we think that's going to go right every single time.

i've got those phone calls at all hours of the night. they don't go right every single time. year, as part of the 21st century policing project, i , interviewednation police officers all over the country of all size department and all types of cultures and communities. universally, you will find that police officers don't even want to understand what an arrest is. they want an alternative. that's one of the key pillars of law enforcement leaders. give police officer's alternatives to arrest. not cit only, not de-escalation only. give them alternatives to arrest as a community and they are going to take that opportunity. you just heard the doctor say what is going on in miami-dade county. we see what is going on in seattle, in tucson, arizona.

rebecca and i were there just this week. but the officers primarily don't have anything other than the back of their car. and that is a solution for no one. and the last point that really strikes the most, when police officers are called because someone's family member has lost or is unable to make the choice to take their medication, and they fall into a crisis, and that family calls the police, and i've made those calls myself as a cop in a car and as the chief trying to do with the aftermath, when that family calls 911, a set of wheels are put into motion. when the officers get there and the person is out of control because they need mental health care or they are drug and alcohol dependent, and cit fails , andse it is passed that that officer takes that person

out of that home, show of hands, how many of you think that the parents are mad at the police? are they mad at the district mayor, thehe county presidents all the way back to kennedy? you know who they are mad at? say it with me, please. the police officer. now why is that important, beyond the obvious? because two weeks from now when that police officer comes back to that neighborhood to investigate a murder, robbery, sexual assault, or any kind of real crime, without the information from the community, colombo does not get it done. the bottom line is this, we have limited police time, limited prosecution time, and limited prison beds. one of the things we have said , we are launched imprisoning people we are mad at

versus the people we are afraid up. that two daysd of at a time thing. police officers by and large don't like it, they don't want it. give them all -- give them an alternative, and they will take it every time. travis, i want to turn it over to you to help us think about what might be those alternatives, and how do we do more than simply stuff people into the back of a police car. if you can talk about some of the alternatives to some of the problems out there, community response centers, and other examples. you, miriam. i want to echoes something that ron said first. it goes along with experience i've had. i'm fortunate that i get to travel throughout much of the

united states, working with jurisdictions who are struggling with this issue of how do we better serve -- and i want to emphasize the word serve -- how do we as a community better serve people who have significant mental health issues? as you heard from the first other thingsicant x. the mid often, not just history of trauma, but significant history of trauma. i have yet in those communities, and i ask this question in every single community that i go to, the question is, how many of you , when you decided to become a law enforcement officer, and that lightbulb went off for you, how many of you decided to get into law enforcement could you wanted to be the first person on scene when somebody was experiencing a psychiatric crisis?

raisedingle person has their hand yet across the united states. ,nd so what becomes imperative and if i can ask all of you in the room to do one thing today when you leave, every single law enforcement officer in the country needs your help with one thing, and that is to answer the upstion that ronal brought earlier, but i'm going to phrase it differently, and that is, divert to what? every law enforcement has to answer that question when they confront an individual who is in crisis. if they cannot, the response will be what i've heard all too many times from law enforcement. that is, i needed to know that this person was going to be safe tonight, that there was a place for them to lay their heads down on a pillow tonight, that they were going to get something to eat, have something semi-clean to where you and the only place i could take them to was to

jail. , event becomes important before that law enforcement officer gets on scene, is for all of us in the communities that we live in to take a look at what we call the crisis care continuum that exists then our jurisdictions. crisis care continuum is an array of services him all the way from people like justin that you heard earlier who are serving as pierce specialists within their community, and the services they are providing to people who have similar experiences. the example they serve as to say i have been in your shoes before, let me help you get to where i am at today. on the way to connecting people system navigators, with folks who are case managers, folks that provide outpatient services. day treatment services, all the way to inpatient levels of care or crisis stabilization unit, residential treatment facilities, both supportive and

supported housing in communities. one of the things we know is that not every jurisdiction in the united states is going to be resource rich. the company that i work for is in upstate new york in the albany area. employee, and i live in lincoln, nebraska. i provide mobile crisis response the i'm not traveling to 37 visible police departments and sheriffs departments within the 16 county area in southeast nebraska, and i can promise you that the crisis care continuum that i just listed for you does not exist, at least in that depth, and most of the jurisdictions that are respond to. so every single community has to take an inventory of what exists with that crisis care continuum, but there's also another important question or two that folks have to ask. it's not only the question of the person who's dealing with significant mental health issues, but also their loved

ones, their friends, their advocates. that is, do we know what services exists, and secondly, do we know how to access those services without first dialing 911? it's critical, because in so many communities we go into, we see a pretty healthy array of that crisis care continuum and the services that exist, but all too often, two things happen. either people don't know how to access those services without first having law enforcement contacts, or things escalate to the point where it's gotten beyond cit response, or even accessing a lower level of care in the crisis care continuum, to the point where 911 has to be dialed for intervention. but that ultimate question of divert to what is in parent for imperative.s one of the things that is really needed is coming on board

regarding the crisis care continuum. we know about things like cit, which we will hear more about, but many jurisdictions are utilizing co-responder models, where a peer specialist is teamed up with law enforcement. they ride along during the shift, dispatch, send that co-responder team out to the scene of someone in crisis to help out. there are many jurisdictions that don't have the resources or the funding to do a co-responder model, so they do things like mobile crisis response which is prevalent in the community i live in. the thing that impacts rural and front tier areas is is that sometimes law enforcement officers don't have 90 minutes or two hours to wait for somebody to show up in a mobile crisis response capacity. to haveeen very common a law enforcement officer who is an hour away for me say something to the effect, you cannot let anybody know this, but it's 2:00 in the morning and

i'm the only person providing coverage for our county right now. if i have to move the county with this person, we have no law enforcement presence in the county until i get back. seeing jurisdictions that are using technology in providing virtual crisis response through things like ipads, downloading software on tablets in the cruisers of law in force officers, downloading software on desk tops back at police stations and sheriffs office is, so that those deputies or officers can take people back there and have a virtual response so they don't one hour or two hours for that response. continuingsis care -- continuum can be imperative to helping our jurisdictions to neutralize crisis situations and not relying as much on our brothers and sisters in law enforcement. he so much, travis.

ron, i would like to turn it over to you and maybe thread together two things we have heard about some are. ron's comment about that brand-new young cop on the beat just doesn't have the training she might need, and second of all, continued thoughts on that great question about, divert to what? you can maybe talk about best practices of cit as well as any other ideas about how do we think about models that promote alternative pathways. >> i appreciate the opportunity to speak. cit is a passion of mine. the program has been misunderstood by many. a lot of police administrators look at cit and call it crisis intervention training, and not crisis intervention team.

can you hear me now? so let's talk about cit. guided bygram that's set of core elements. through agencies that have diverted from fidelity to the cit model, where there's minty oj and u.s. investigations and they put out the report, finding that stepping away from fidelity higher uses lead to of force in certain situations. when would talk about focusing, that cit is nothing the training, that is all it becomes, and we really start to lose what cit is about. realistically it's exactly what rebecca spoke about in the first opening panel, which is reducing contact by law enforcement to those in our community's that have until illness, reducing the number of contacts. that is a huge thing to keep in mind as we are having this discussion.

when we focus cit as being a training model, then we don't really put the emphasis on bringing together partnerships and looking at what to divert too. what can we build? how can we put a system together that realistically is going to start to produce those -- reduce those law enforcement encounters, and then recidivism, having people actually find the state of recovery. talk a little bit about my experiences. i am a law enforcement officer from the state of utah. integrated crisis response system that really does try to reduce those number of contacts. we did it by starting with cit. and within a month, we also had the steering committee from cit go to a steering committee developing mental health courts, and from there we just kept expanding and expanding. but we kept that quarantine and

just kept adding individuals, that steering committee, and adding individuals until we rebel to put together a complete crisis response system with those same individuals or their counterparts once they moved on. that is really what cit is about, the collaboration in bringing people together to try to find solutions. another misunderstanding about cit is, train everybody. let me give you some examples of why that might not be the best thing. there is an agency i work with allthey have betraying model. two officers went out on the situation involving a person that was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. they didn't know this, they just knew it was a homeless person. the business called saying, get this homeless person out from in front of my business. the person was just trying to find shelter under the canopy.

true homeless individual who had quite a few bags and things he carries around with him. those were all in front of the store as well. when the two officers arrived, one officer, they were both cit trained, but one officer really expresses himself as a cit officer. was citary officer trained and basically handled the situation as though it was just any other run-of-the-mill type situation. he did recognize that the person obviously had some mental health issues. did not do a complete evaluation of whether the person was a danger to himself or others, decided the person was not, and started to opt to arrest the so that wouldsing resolve the situation. the other officer, who wanted to take cit to heart, knew of a resource for homeless individuals called storefront,

where this person could go and immediately be connected to somebody who could provide some type of an evaluation and assistance. , he knew a second resource tied into that place where the person could possibly get a contract for some housing. he had a discussion with a homeless person and of course a homeless person was leery and skeptical and just didn't want to do it, but ultimately, through the skills of that second officer, agreed and went into the officer's car with no problems and went down to this location to get the assistance. so that is really what we are talking about today, building a team of specialists that understand intimately the resources and will utilize those resources and dedicate, even if take a little more time, to be able to get the people they help they need to reduce the recidivism are the contact with

law enforcement. summing that up, talking about generalist against specialist training. every officer needs to have de-escalation skills. there's a new study coming out that is going to be looking at all the various types of de-escalation training for law enforcement compared to the cit. so once and for all we can say hey, we can teach every officer the same the escalations skills do needgnition, but we a team of specialist officers that really understand the resources to find that more permanent cover resolution. i just kind of want to discuss another way, when we are talking about developing an integrated crisis response system, we from her back about how many calls come into 911 and how many are just 911 calls. the majority of cold -- calls

that law enforcement go out on a law really require enforcement officer to be there. so why do we keep opening that door? every time law enforcement shows up on the scene, you are bringing the justice system, every single time. in the lake county integrated crisis response system we have, we have available that when a call comes into 911, if that dispatcher identifies it as a mental health call for service, does not require a law-enforcement response because there is no articulated danger. they can actually do a warm handoff to the crisis line. the crisis line can then you to resolve it there, handed down to a warm line staffed by peer support specialist, or they can also dispatch out there mobile crisis outreach team to go deal with it every again, totally removing law enforcement from the whole thing. we aretime, if they feel

not feeling comfortable about dealing with this situation, we do need law enforcement, they call back, and guess what? law enforcement sends a dedicated cit officer to co-respond with the team. so you do have a co-responder model. the other model is the embedded co-responder model, where we have a clinician teamed up in a car with a law-enforcement officer and they respond out. to be honest with you, that is expensive proposition, and i'm not really clear of any jurisdiction that can actually offer that level of service 24 hours a day, seven days a week, on every shift. so i think as people try to look at how to build crisis response systems, utilizing this is an important and integral part. miriam: i want to underscore something that you said and

bring tj into the conversation. very often i think all of us can agree that what is happening is our criminal justice system is filling a space that our mental health and public health systems need to be filling. in many ways, the more we do to fill that space in perfectly, the less those other systems are going to do to come into that space. with that in mind, i want to turn it over to tj. currently you are attorney general. you previously were a local elected locald prosecutor, and you really took up the mantle of this issue. i want to get you to talk to us about what you did and how you brought others to the table using your clout as an elected --icial so was just not some

>> lenny think of having me here today. this is really wonderful conference, the first panel was great. i don't know if justin is still in the room, but i think i heard a large part of the solution from justin this morning. he was absolutely amazing and he does deserve a round of applause. [applause] really, for me, how i came to just my personal experiences. i know that mental illness does not discriminate. it certainly has impacted my own family. i understand that poverty does and anyone who's been in the criminal justice system or jail, you mostly see poor people and people of color. miriam, what you said earlier, i

kept saying to myself, why are we doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? , andi was states attorney sarah george who is now the states attorney is in the room, she's doing a great job. attorney, itates grew up in the community, i went to public schools. these folks who i knew, i knew their families and grew up at them, good people. they were good people. and we had a lot of similar or shared experiences growing up. but at some point in time, we took different paths, and perhaps growing up he didn't have the inside or life experiences to take a look and understand some of the challenges they were facing. we talk about that first challenge of experiences, the issue of trauma and poverty.

we used to joke about these first families of crime, generational families that are in the system, and you do this every single day. the real travesty, if we are being honest about it, you are right about the police and divert to what. the real travesty was when someone it would be brought in, you'd have it diagnoses being made by 25 euro prosecutor with no life experience pin -- no life experience. then we convict you and put you in jail and then put you out of probation and not talk about the collateral consequences that are attached, the need for a job, the need for belonging, the need to actually feel part of the community. , i wouldtes attorney see folks i knew, knew their family, new they were good people, just being cycled through the system.

and really started to question what public safety met. i am not sure public safety is defined by convictions. i am not sure it is defined by arrests. i think it is defined by health, i think it is defined by people feeling safe and secure, having housing, having access to care having access to education and having access to a job. and the criminal justice removes those opportunities for so many people in the name of public safety. we have marginalized an entire population, and it hasn't worked. it is a small percent of the folks who go through our system. we started having conversations about, what can we do different? i used to say to myself and others that, i'm not the mayor

of the courthouse. a prosecutor is a community leader. the first thing i started to do withuild partnership different social service agencies in our county and in our state, that were dealing with these folks that would end up in the criminal justice system. but we never talked to them. we never talked to them. in theseted to bring folks as partners. and i would say to them, our mission statement may be different at the goal is the same, a safe and vibrant community for everybody. and to your point, travis, about who you divert two, i saw these community groups as allies, because you have to have accountability. accountability to me doesn't mean convictions. it doesn't mean a jail sentence, necessarily. sometimes it means getting sober. sometimes it means going to see a doctor and trying to get healthy, and not just saying,

you are on your own, and actually providing support, and understanding that this is hard. so we've started a program and i have to credit the center for tort innovation. up and weg came started talking and he started looking at the numbers of our ofidivism rate, the amount money we spend on corrections in our own state, and the people we are putting in. and it made you question what you are doing. so we came up with a fancy name that i am not sure really worked, but we called it the intervention community court, and it actually went down to -- and i actually went hook, but i fell in love with that.

and the judge, having this direct dialogue with the individual, and then having services right there. because what i found was, when we push people into the system and load them up with conditions, that even a havee-class guy would trouble navigating, we are setting people up for failure. to replicate the red hook community corporation in vermont. fearsomeinto the most person in our court system, the clerk of the court. [applause] get court time. but i said i still want to do this. and here is the power of the prosecutor, the power to charge to charge.r not restraint is the most important quality in a prosecutor, in my opinion. i kept on saying, what does public safety mean? and so we started it, and we had workgroups but time is of the

essence. has theosecutor authority, and really the awesome power to impact a person's life and a matter of seconds. i am going to charge you with a felony, two felonies, bail or no bail. is an enormous power. and the people invested in that power are often young, and i'm not sure they have had that shared experience of many of the people that they sit in judgment of. and when you divert, to whom? because you can't just not do anything. so we started using risk assessments and in lieu of wouldng people, people come from the police, we would send them to a social service agency. we would get a release signed. everybody would sign a release.

i didn't want to get charge. and most people wanted help. most people wanted to do the right thing. the bad guys are the easy part of the job. it is what do you do with good people who are struggling? and that is the vast majority of people in the system, in my opinion. so in lieu of prosecution we would link them to the appropriate social service agency. we set an arbitrary time limit because we didn't have a lot of resources, of 90 days, and we do a compliance check. and it was just calling and .j. doing?w is t there was no political stuff, that's not my expertise. and at the 90 day mark, if they are doing what they're supposed to be doing, breaking down barriers to care, getting them back into the community, treating people with respect and seeing them as productive members of our community, and

they were doing what they're supposed to be doing at 90 days, we didn't charge them. we didn't charge them. who is stable,y sober, housed, hopefully employed, he is the best form of public safety. absolutely. [applause] we make mistakes. it is not the best program. it is done on a shoestring. sarah is doing a great job with it we are trying to roll it out statewide. we are a rural state. you have the challenges in a rural state in terms of matching resources. but the way i look at the system is very simple. a jail, the highway to there should be exit ramps the whole way there based on need, based on risk. we can never lose public safety, but to bring science into it so that you flatten out the arbitrariness of the system, and

make it a little bit more fair, more humane. struck to actually see people, to actually see people and to recognize them. the one thing i miss about going up the ladder a little bit is, you don't deal with real people as much anymore. [laughter] , when i was aing prosecutor that i loved, was just talking to folks, talking to defendants. not talking there case, but just, how are you doing? and actually knowledge and then when you saw them outside, saying hello, how are you? it goes a long way to treat people as human beings, and if we can do a little bit of that and have prosecutors recognize that they are community leaders, that there are resources out there, you have to bring in a coalition, you are not changing

mission statements, and then you can start to answer that question of where to divert to. we are definitely having obstacles in the more rural parts of the states, but to have somebody on the front end make that assessment and link out, you can do it a lot of different ways. if you want to charge, fine. if you want the drug courts or the mental health courts for we need to have that model being done on the front side. so that is what we are trying to do in vermont. thank you. i still want to talk a little bit about that highway, laverne, because you have seen different parts about the highway that dj t.j. describes. tell us your thoughts on where and how can prosecutors engage? >> thank you for the invitation.

attorney, i am an being in a law school, and why you didn't accept me. [laughter] one way or another, i get up in here. it is important for me to provide context as to why i do the work that i do. iam a person with experience, have suffered bipolar disorder probably since the age of 13 or 14, but undiagnosed until about 35. and when i look back, and this is probably true of many of the folks you encounter, but for different reasons, because i was a smart kid, i did well in high school and didn't cause any problems, i didn't raise any red flags with my parents if i stayed in my room for months at a time. i got as.

got any screening tools. i wouldn't say i skated by but i suffered needlessly, because of the different highways. this work from both my personal experience and my professional experience as an assistant da. and a want to tell you, all assistant district attorneys , and we don'tich become assistant attorneys to become rich, or to see people locked up. being involved in the system for an extended being of time and witnesses to certain situations, there is cynicism that can and does set in. most of us want to do the work. are deeply work and

committed to creating a society where all folks are able to live up to their potential. one thing i wanted to talk about was my first-hand experience as an assistant da. assistant district attorneys have in a norm cement of discretion. absent more serious crimes that have to go up the change, -- up the chain, they have an enormous amount of discretion based on a complaint that a police officer files, the kind of information that he or she gathers from a police department -- a police officer, the kind of charges filed in a criminal complaint, the offer that may be made whethern arraignment, or not a case is indicted, it is an enormous amount. and i was 26 result. and we are called rookies because you are rookies in every sense of the word. it is really important that

assistant district attorneys received training. i did in my whole class. you come in as a class with your legal aid society colleagues, and us folks on the right side wanted to be assistant district attorneys. i'm just joking, we all want justice. so we come in as a class and we see training. i can remember going on a right along during my first week as street,looking at 42nd understanding what goes on, the kinds of crime, and most importantly, understanding the officers and building rapport. it was understood by the district attorney's that was really important for me to understand a police officer's role to humanize that police officer to me, so when i came

into contact with that police officer, he or she was not just a person in a blue uniform. just as i was, trying to do the right thing. i think it is important for assistant district attorneys to receive training, and i'm not talking about comprehensive training were assistant das are called upon to diagnose or to assess folks. i think thewhat system calls for. what it does call for is for assistant district attorneys to understand melting illness and understand the impact of mental illness, substance abuse and incarceration. and the consequences that the criminal justice system as for any person, particularly men of color but really for anyone. the criminal justice system is about the loss of certain rights and privileges around employment, around housing. it can be devastating, so that even when a person gets well and wants to return to his or her

immunity as a full participant, there are so many barriers and it is so easy to get disillusioned. and when you understand the impact as an assistant da that your decision has, what you do is no longer a fairy or and exercise -- or an exercise in laying down the law. it is an exercise in really, really being very intentional about what justice means and how you can use justice and fairness. i call it substantive justice, because it is that, to really have an impact on your community and be more respected and an integral heart of your community. i think that is really important. to training is important, understand the impact of those decisions we make. the other thing is i think district it -- assistant district attorneys really need to come into contact with people

suffering from substance abuse or mental-health abuse. it is humanizing. you pull up the rap sheet and it is a foot-long, and it is really about meeting people in the various stages of recovery and really hearing their stories, and talking to them about recovery and what it is really like. would recommend that all district attorneys offices have opportunities for their ada's to interact with people. recovery,ponent that you have got to use all five senses, both for us as professionals but most importantly folks like justin. you have to feel it. the other thing i think is really important is to understand a lot of the highways and doorways we have, for example the issuance of lawrence. -- issuance of warrants.

court the first time, you are given a piece of paper and told to come back. i would probably lose it, and somebody with mental illness who says, i have to be in court on this day, and i would say that is rare. so what happens? a warrant is issued. knows thate da just they didn't show up to court, not why they didn't show up to court, and that person becomes even more involved in the criminal justice system. i think we need to reform the ways we focus on the issuance of warrants and the like. and i don't think it is intentional, i think it is just kind of how we all view the world we working, is that often is that- we work in, often people suffering from mental illness are overcharged, and they are very serious charges. when you look at the

rhythm of the system you understand that it may not have been a felony, it may not be a misdemeanor. you are getting, that person on every stage of the highway, is really treated very very differently and is not in the position to make the soundest decisions. so people are pleading guilty to charges they may not be guilty for. is important for assistant district attorneys to understand that, and be inquisitive, and ask questions, and to work collaboratively because it does require more collaboration with the defense bar. i want to recommend, das office'stimes focus primarily on crime and

crime prevention. we are members of a real and vibrant community and our role far expands arrests, prosecuting people, and the like. it is really back creating communities that are safe for everyone, including those with mental illnesses and suffering from substance abuse. it is about integrating the community and welcoming the community and creating allies. it is about having public policy positions on things like homelessness, employment, racism, those sorts of things. because if we only focus on the criminal justice peace, that is so far along the line. it is really critical. the da's office should be involved as soon as possible on that highway. fromnt to prevent folks even getting on the ramp. i could do in opposing argument

really quickly. [applause] tort 101. there are numerous opportunities for district attorney's office is for assistant district attorneys to be part of the solutions and problem-solving. and when you look at communities that are getting diversion as alternatives to incarceration, those are communities where assistant district attorneys, state attorneys, have really been at the table from the very beginning. thank you. >> thank you, so much. [applause] we have a couple of minutes. let me see if there are any questions. we are going to get you a mike, actually. this is for mr. donovan.

you mentioned a risk assessment instrument and the use of curvee to flatten out the . what kind of risk assessment are you using? >> the question was risk assessments. we are vermont, we started using the ohio risk assessment tool. >> and is ohio using the vermont tool? don't know. i'm not sure vermont has a tool. but we like ohio's tool. and that is because our department of corrections had a license to use it, and we don't have a lot of money, and it works. that is what i would also say about whether it is the least prosecutors, you have to be creative on this stuff and you have got to be cognizant about meeting, with the only action step being another

meeting. you don't want to jeopardize public safety but again, that low hanging fruit, be creative and to be an entrepreneur if you will come in the system. built those coalitions. if you don't have money, i went calling around and saying, i know you need this, i don't have any money in my budget but i know the doc does, so let me use their license to use the risk assessment. thinkat question, and it tj touched on another issue as well. the issue of risk-assessment tools is one we are going to be discussing this afternoon. hanging always a question, the elephant in the room or the crocodile in the bathtub, however you think about it, and what do you do when you don't have the money or the resources? , at theone response is

end of the day we will save money by being smarter about these things. and miami has closed a jail and is saving millions of dollars, by being smarter and more humane and building a healthier and safer community. but what about that question, how do you start if you don't have the money? travis, if you can offer some thoughts and then i will let each of you make a final comment. >> the first thing you do when you don't have a lot of money, you have to take inventory of what resources you do have. and when we come back to the question of, diverge to what? if you don't know what to divert to, you may be wasting resources on reinventing something you already have. you must first map or inventory what you do have. here is why. everymes we think that

community fails when the answer to the question to get people help, it is never acceptable to say jail is the place for people to go to get help. person who is average, in terms of when i get called out on a crisis-response call. who has been male dealing with schizophrenia, competing stimuli in his head for many years. he may also be self-medicating to tryvely with alcohol, to combat some of the stimuli he has got competing with him. that is on medication impacting his metabolism and has caused him to gain a lot of weight, and he has type2 diabetes. he is also a smoker and dealing with cardiovascular disease, and he is being victimized by other people if he is homeless out on the streets. yes, we think jail is the place this person should go to to get help.

there is not a simple solution. but the place to start when you resources,a lot of you immediately have to have an inventory of what you do have. because the gaps then tell you what you need to advocate for in terms of future resources. you fore ask each of one final thought, that you want people to carry with them today. today,e are doing here putting this on the table, discussing it and looking at options, that is what release to happen in every community across the united states. when theyople that call a meeting, people show up, is the das office, the prosecutor's office or law enforcement. for some reason, they can get people to the table when they call. and of course, the judges, by all means. but that is what we need to do to start and, doing what we are doing today, which is talking about what are the options and

how we move forward, so we can reduce recidivism and get rid of stigma. >> it also addresses the resource question. the international association of chiefs of the lease has been around since the late 1800s and has created a concept called the one mind campaign. what the one mind campaign dies, and several hundred police department are moving in that direction, is to create partnerships and written policies and procedures on how to share the responsibility for mental-health treatment. yourequire a percentage of department to have cit training and it opens those doors. that settles that resource think. police chiefs -- the resource thing. police chiefs have accountability and i believe a

combination of police chiefs and prosecutors can be the largest barking dog. >> i would reiterate that restraint is the marston is the mostality -- important quality in a prosecutor. it is important for prosecutors to see the goodness and everybody and then give folks the opportunity to prove that. >> i think it is important for everyone in the system to be educated about recovery, and that recovery should be the expected outcome of treatment, also that when you are looking at these models to figure out what you are going to do, it is important to have stakeholders, people with experience in mental illness and incarceration and substance use, as well as family members at the table. something andd expect them to come if they are not involved, if they really don't understand what you are trying to do. if they thinkd

you are able to make them your allies, you will have your advocates for going to the legislature and requesting more robust funding of crisis models or other interventions my colleagues talked about. >> it's never acceptable for a community to say, jail is the place for people to go for help. you have heard of other initiatives nationally, such as the one mind campaign, the stepping up campaign, the macarthur safety and justice challenge, helping communities reduce their jail populations, -- and especially people who have behavioral health disorders that are finding their way into thi these jails. >> i want to thank this terrific panel. [laughter] going to take 60

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