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tv   Housing and Urban Development Department Oversight  CSPAN  July 1, 2018 3:43am-6:59am EDT

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glasses to prove she doesn't have body image issues. she wants to be respected. if women want to be respected, they have to behave in a way that will elicit that. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. now, housing and urban develop an secretary ben carson testifies at an oversight hearing of the house financial services committee. it's three hours and 15 minutes. texas congressman jed hencerling cha chaired the hearing. the committee will come to order. >> the chair is authorized to declare a recess to the committee at any time.
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and all members will have five legislative days for inclusion in the record. the hearing is entitled oversite of the department of urban and housing development. i now recognize myself. the committee will come to order, please. i now recognize myself for three and a half minutes to give an opening statement. as we all know, hud was established over 50 years ago. when it was established, president johnson said it was central to the war on poverty but unfortunately 50 years later not to mention $1.6 trillion later the poverty level in our country has barely changed. there's no doubt that hud programs help a number of our citizens that are a critical part of the nation's social safety net. but when i look at the data and when i look into the faces of our fellow citizens who seem to be trapped in lives of dependency, it's hard not to
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conclude that hud has failed far too many for far too long. . . . . .
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secretary carson, i want to speak briefly the tenure of political debate in our society today. i do not know how you will be treated in this hearing. i know on previous occasions members of this committee believe that witnesses should "be treated fairly, should be
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shown courtesy should be allowed , to answer questions and be allowed respect. we will allow the public to determine whether they live up to their words today. i think we all know that words matter. i know that steve scalise believes this. i'm not sure any member of the house has greater credibility on the subject. for those who promote diversity i call upon them to respect diversity of opinion which is the single most important form of diversity in a free and democratic society. i also lament as i look back that there was a time in america's history where you could be denied service in a restaurant based on the color of your skin, now apparently it's
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the color of your voter registration card. to all my colleagues, particularly those who disagree with my political size don't hone a restaurant. but if i owned a restaurant in dallas, i want you to know you would be welcome there there and you can go to tex-mex or barbecue. as we eat, i would not yield you the moral high ground, i would not lessen my passion for individual liberty and economic opportunity but i would listen carefully to your views and i would seek common ground with you. should my supporters be in that restaurant the only thing i would call on them to do would be to show you respect and to surround you with texas friendly hospitality. i yield back the balance of my time. i now recognize the gentle lady from california. >> mr. chairman, since seconds carson was last before the
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committee he has taken actions and issued proposals that are problematic and harmful for vulnerable families and hard working americans. has reached an outrageous plan that would triple runs for low income houses and put americans at risk for eviction and homelessness. he has budget cuts to important program. the trump administration's latest budget request that congress would cut the budget by 24% compared to current levels and would eliminate the community development block grant and the home investment partner ship prom. and i'm very concerned but the action secretary carson has taken to unmind fair housing in the country. secretary carson has stop the implementation of hud, furthering fair housing rules which requires the federal agencies and recipients of federal housing funds to take pro-active steps to affirmatively further fair housing. according to news reports, he has brought a halt to fair
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housing investigations and enforcement actions, even proposed taking the phrase, inclusive and sustainable communities, free from discrimination, out of hud's mission statement. so address these harmful actions, i have introduced the restoring for housing, protection, elimed by hud act of 2018. in respond to each action that second carson has taken to undermine fair housing. congress should not stand by while the agency charged with ensuring fair housing turns its back on the mission and takes actions that roll back critical protections that ensure that all americans have fair access to housing. so i thank the secretary for coming today and i look forward to hearing his testimony on these important issues. and as to the chairman's comments about civility, and about what he would do if he owned a restaurant, let me just say that i think every
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reasonable person has concluded that the president of the united states of america has had slow indicated violence, had been divisive and he he has been the one that has caused what we see happening today, where people are trying to pushback on his policies and where people are trying to have peaceful protests instead of violence, but he continues to call names and he continues to challenge people in very violent ways. i quote to you what he said. in his campaign, i quote he said, lied like to knock the crap out of them and said know what they used to guys like this in a place like this? they would be carried out on a stretch, and in addition to that he talked about the fact that if someone was hurt while they were being assaulted as he was encouraging them to do, he said that if you see somebody getting
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ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them and would you you're other seriously? case, knock the hell out. i promise i will pay for the legal fees it so if you want to talk but civility, start with the president of the out and implore him not to continue to promote violence, not to continue to promote divisiveness, and then i think he would be a better example and people would follow a better example rather than get trapped into what he is advocating which is pure violence. yield back the balance of my time. >> chair now recognizes the gentleman from weather, i mr. duffy for one and a half minutes. >> thank you. we don't take responsibility for our own actions. we should blame somebody else for our poor behavior in our incitement of violence. mr. secretary, welcome. thank you for coming to wisconsin and participating in
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our homelessness summit. coming to wisconsin in january is not a time people chooses to come and see us but we had 4 been people who came to speak. i want to talk but things we have been working on in the housing and m-ens subcommittee with your partnership, focusing on homelessness and low human being -- low-income housing it's fascinating things we can do together on a bipartisan level. we have voted bills into the housing choice voucher act with unanimous votes, bipartisanship can happen when we work together and with your participation. we do do great things when everybody work together, including working with hud. and again i'm grateful for your participation. i think it's wonderful when our aim is working on programs that
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lift people up and out of poverty. we shouldn't measure success about how much money we actually spend but what impact do our programs have on people's live us, what kind of opportunity do we give them and give them a hand up and into self-sufficiency. i'm looking forward today to your testimony but also hearing about your story and how you lifted yourself up, whether it was with support and opportunity that has brought you to this committee today. my time is up and i yield back. >> chair now recognizes the gentleman from michigan, mr. kill de, for one minute. -- kildee, for one minute. >> thank you, mr. chairman, mr. secretary i started an initiative in congress, titled the future of american cities and towns. you and i discussed in this in your office a couple of months back. want to just encourage you to engage on this subject. we have a whole subset of
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american cities that have continued to decline during periods of growth and periods of recession. it seems to be consistently falling to the bottom. this is not an accident. it's the result of policy at every level of government and i would implore you to join with fuss calling attention to the needs needs needs of whole set of americans, cities and towns struggling. we have tools available but not robust enough tools. before i yield, i feel obligated to comment on the comments of the chair. i share his concern about the tone of public dialogue, but i will say this. i am very frustrated to see the ease with which some members of this body-willing to criticize some on the other side of the oil but not their own. i have criticized my colleagues when i think they have gone the wrong path, but i fear that i see so many who are suddenly
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invertebrate when it comes time to criticize the chief architect of the devolution of the public dialogue and that's the president of the united states. >> the chair now recognizes the gentleman from missouri, mr. cleaver, for one minute. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you, mr. secretary. yesterday the subcommittee on housing and insurance had a very interesting committee hearing and we debt with the issue of lead paint and there were some final rules, i think, put in place last year, in 2017. we were having lived in public housing and knowing that the dangers of leed paint and it tastes sweet, which means it's a perfect invitation to kid.
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we yesterday became very concerned when we had the ig here and the ig was vary critical of hud in some areas related to the lead -- that paint issue. i talked about yesterday putting a ten-year plan together and declaring war on the end of lead-based paint in public housing and that was one of the things he criticized hud on not having a goal in terms of dealing with this so i will probably continue it later in this meetingoid. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify those
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morning. hud has made tremendous progress since i testified in october, and i'm so pleased to have this opportunity to update you on those developments and to discuss other innovative solutions tower nation's housing and community development challenges. june is national healthy homes month, and an important recognition of the significance of the home to our overall health. as you'll know prior to becoming hud secretary i was a doctor. in the course of treating young children i newell i could crete the patient's symptoms or treat the patient. the patient's home must be a part of a holistic approach to treating that patient because you can't be healthy if your home is sick. june is also national home ownership month. central to hud's efforts to support responsible home ownership are the programs at the federal housing administration. fha's mission is to support sustainable home ownership in
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good times and bad. maintaining the health of fhas single family insurance fund is critical if we are to continue to be an affordable source of credit for first-time, low and moderate income and minority home buyeres. managing taxpayers risk requires technology and fha can no longer put off substantial investments in our systems, some of which are built on platforms over four decade old. this year marks the 50th 50th anniversary of the pass the fair housing act. hud has and will town to rigorously protect people from discrimination regardless of their color, race, national origin, religion, sex, disability or family status. each year, we receive approximately 8,000 fair housing complaints, and each year hud and our fair housing partners continue to enforce the letter and spirit of this landmark law.
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earlier this month, i formally launched the first envision center? detroit ask announced 16 additional demonstration sites across the nation. they offer hud assisted families access to a range of support services, to move their lives on to a stronger financial footing and help them along the road to self-sufficiency. envision centers fulfill a basic principle that guide this administration, leveraging limited public sector resources with those in private fill an tropic, nonprofit, and faith-based organizations. one of the most consequential policy reforms for which we are seeking the committee's support is a proposal to reform the rental assistance program administered by hud. hud currently serves 4.7 million low income families. more than half of whom are seniors and persons living with
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disability. hud's complex rent policies have remained largely unchanged sin the early 1980s. in april the administration proposed a simplified process that has more predictable rent calculation that is easier to understand for landlords and tenants alike. i would welcome having a long overdue conversation with members of this committee but how we can provide meaningful, dignified assistance to those we serve. we are now in the midst of another hurricane season, while we continue the long process of recoverying from last year's devastating storms. since hurricanes harvey, irma and maria made landfall and wildfires impacted california, hud was hairedded more than $35 million through the department's community development block grant disaster recovery program. these grants will support recover in harsh hit areas in nine states, poo puerto rico and
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the u.s. virgin islands. in addition, a substantial amount of these recovery dollars will be invested in making disaster-prone areas stronger, making it possible for them to weather future disasters. taxpayers support hud's mission and they expect to us use their money wisely. maximizing the impact of every dollar and minimizing waste. since becoming secretary i have been mindful of fulfilling our mission. in march if took a number of important steps to strengthen the financial integrity of the agency and correct lax internal processes and controls. central to this effort is hud's chief financial officer, irvin dennis, who joined the department in january after a distinguished career in the private sector. i have directed erv to design and implement a transformation
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plan and lead an internal task force to combat waste, fraud and abuse. we simply need to do better and we will. in conclusion, mr. chairman, hud is committed to safe, fair, and affordable housing for the american people. it also is a stepping stone to opportunity and self-sufficiency so that families can graduate from assisted housing to economic independence. i'm eager to work with congress and this committee in achieving this worthy goals and better serve our fellow americans. >> thank you, mr. secretary. chairman now yields to himself, five minutes for questions. mr. secretary you talked but using the taxpayer funds widely. i guess taxpayers would be willing to spend more if they saw results. so i'm concerned when i hear what the ranking member, the gentleman from missouri, alluded to in a subcommittee hearing
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yesterday, and i think i have the numbers right, that the taxpayers spent about $1.5 billion of ten years on mold and lead paint remediation and we have absolutely no data to show that any of this is working. so i continue to encourage you, mr. secretary, we need to have metrics of progress, and so as you well know, section 8 is the main housing program that you oversee. we know there are a lot of elderly people with sex 8 vouchers. -- section 8 vouchers and disabled and also able-bodied people who need to have paths to independence and so, again, i'm curious -- i've been on the committee a long time and i've yet to see hud develop any metric of success. you grew up in poverty. you know it better than most, but yet you escaped that. we need to know what worked and
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so what is hud doing to change the metrics of success from simply taxpayer money in, to lives changed. can you tell this committee where you are on that? >> yes, thank you for that question. obviously in medicine, we are very focused on metrics, and the reason that life expectancy in this country has gone up so much is because we looked at data, looked at evidence, and changed policies and medicine for that reason. and the same thing is happening at hud right now. we are looking at actual data; we're developing longitudal dashboards to follow a important over the course of time and determine how many more people, children, are reading at grade level, how many more people are graduating from high school, or getting their geds. how many more people are moving on toed a --
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>> mr. secretary, what's the timetable here? when can this committee expect to see some results on the metrics you're creating? >> i would expect to be able to see something within a year or two. >> but it has to be done on a longitudal basis. >> i would encourage the department to move even more rapidly. let me move rapidly myself. hud recently issued an advance notice of proposed rulemaking dealing with its intent to reconsider the 2013 disparate impact rule. with regard to that, treasury issued a report in october of '17 that read are in part treasury recommends hud reconsider the use of the disparate impact rule in particular hud should consider whether the disparate impact rule also applied is consistent with mccarran ferguson, an existing state law. hud should also consider whether such a rule would have a disruptive effect on the
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availability of home owners in insurance and whether the rule is reconcile able withing a actuarial sound principles. are you familiar with this report. >> yes. >> number one, given the legal parameters established by mccarran-ferguson, which i believe in as chairman, what legal authority, if any, dot hud have to regulate the business of insurance? my second question would be what state regulatory approximates has hud identified that fails to protect consumers from discrimination. >> obviously year very concerned about the description of any time -- discriminal make of any time, whether it's insurance or assessing property value, no matter what it is, and the responsibility that we have is the oversight of entities that do business with hud, and we are
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in the process of looking carefully at that -- the matter you just -- >> again do you have legal authority under mccarran-ferguson to regulate the business of insurance which it appears you are attempting to do. i am having a hard time seeing that. >> that's not our business. >> that is not your business. well, then, the second part of the question, has hud identified any state that they believe are inadequate in protecting their consumers from housing discrimination and if so would you please name the states. >> i would not be able to tell you specifically states that are doing that. >> does that mean, mr. secretary, that hud is not identified them or you don't have that information in front of you. >> i don't have such information, and --
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>> does hud have such information. >> i'm not particularly convinced that's where the energies of hud should be directed. >> my time has expired but the chair now recognize the ranking member. >> thank you very mump be continue to face substantial challenge when it comes to fair housing in america reveals from the center for regulartive reporting recently found that in 61 metro areas, applicants of color were more likely to be denied conventional mortgage. let me just ask a question. you said you're concerned about discrimination. do you believe that housing discrimination continues to be a serious problem in this country? >> there's no question that there's still discrimination in our country. >> do you believe it's a serious problem? >> anytime you see discrimination it's a serious problem. >> you don't believe it's a serious problem that discrimination does exist. >> i believe that we have a
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responsibility to identify and continue to attack discrimination where it occurs and the activity in that regard at hud hash -- . >> i hurd that. i'm trying to find out whether or not you believe there is serious discrimination in this country? >> i believe any discrimination is serious. >> let me get to the proposal on your rent increases. you released a proposal drastically raise rent and. pore arbitrary work requirements on low income families. many of us have haven't from constituents about how harmful this proposal would be but you appear to take a step back from the proposal, claiming and i quote the reason we had to consider raising rents at all is because we are dealing with a $41 billion bug. now that the budget has been changed the necessity for doing
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it noticed urgent, quote-unquote. so, before we get into some of the detail of your prosal i want to ask you, do you stand by your so-called quote making affordable housing work act that would triple rents on he thest income families or here to here to urge congress to pass their harm. propose sal. >> first, recognize that when you talk about tripling rents you're talking but the minimum rent of $50 that would potentially go up to $150. >> i'm talking be. >> relatively few people who are hud assisted actually pay that so that's been blown way out of proportion. in terms of the budget, obviously we have to be concerned about fiscal responsibility as well as compassion, and we have to do what we need to do in order to make budget fit. >> i want to thank you.
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i just have to reclaim and time here. your answer is that you had a budget problem basically, and you thought one way to meet that was by tripping the -- triples the rent. is that correct? >> no. what is correct i had to do everything could to make sure that we didn't have to increase the rents on the -- >> my time -- re caming may time, mr. -- reclaiming my time, mr. secretary you attempted to increase the rent and moved back on it -- to triple the rent. would also like to clarify your rationale for offering the process sal. you claim this proposal was intended to increase self-sufficiency. there's simply no evidence to support that claim. also claimed that it was only proposed to address shortages in hud's budget. but you yourself have called for cutting the budget. so, what is the real reason for this proposal? you can see what i'm saying. if you gave as the excuse the reason was for tripling the rent was because you have a budget problem, but yet you were
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initiating budget cuts. how do you justify that? >> that's not the only reason for increasing rents. if you recall secretary donovan advocated exactly the same thing for -- >> reclaiming my time. it's not talking about second don moen van. >> -- the previous administration. >> i'm not a talking but secretary donovan. i'm talking but you, your attempt to triple the rents on the most vulnerable in our society. stepping back and the reason that you gave was that you had budget problems, yet you advocated cutting the budget. i want to know how you reconcile that. >> the reason that we advocated that and the reason that the previous administrationed a advocated that is it would give people more skin in the game and encourage them to bring in more income into their household. >> you're no longer backing this proposal due to increased
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appropriations for hud's bought from congress. is that correct? >> this proposal is a starting point in the conversation as you know -- >> are you continue continuing to back the proposal or not, mr. secretary? >> excuse me? >> are you continuing to back that proposal? >> of course we continue to back our proposals. >> thank you. so, -- you continue to advocate the steep cuts in huds budget. >> i continue to advocate fiscal honest and compassion and don't -- >> thank you. you so-called making affordable housing act would trip the rent once in the lowest income family. the typical household affected would be a single mother of two, earning a median income of 2,400 a year, or just 200 a month, after paying 150 for rent are she would be left with $50, to stretch for the month for toilet tries and bus fair. do you honestly believe your
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proposal would happen a family like there is? how can you expect a child to succeed in school or working parent to maintain employment when they struggle to afford basic necessities? >> are you interested in an answer? >> are you interested in giving one? >> i would give one if you would allow know so so. >> i stopped. that means you have an opportunity to respond. if you will, if you just buying for time, then i'll yield back my time and you won't get a clangs to answer. yield book the balance of my time. >> the they're now recognizes the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. duffy. chairman of the housing and insurance subcommittee. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. secretary, i am not going pepper you with questions and then when you try to answer, reclaim my time. so, you are just asked a number of questions by the ranking member would you like an opportunity to actually respond to the questions you just received? >> that would be very useful. >> have at it. >> all right. well in fact, the reason that we have offeredded a rent reform
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proposal is because there's so many perverse things in the system that exists now that have not been changed for many decades. we need to be able to respond to those because we want people to actually be able to move out of assisted housing and to realize the potential that god -- >> you want people to actually be self-sufficient? >> exactly. >> get out of the he program? not spend a lifetime in the program. >> that's exactly right. >> oh. >> and that's one of the reasons, for instance in that proposal, which is something that many people don't want to talk about, we have increased the amount of time to three years that you have to re-affirm your income upon which the rent is based. that way you're not discharged from taking the rage or not discourages from getting a better job, you're not discouraged from getting married, bringing in another income into the family. those their kind things that are
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perverse incentives that have kept people mired in poverty. >> do yaw he any life experience that might lead you thank you the conclusion it's helpful to movessous out of assistance and into self-sufficiency or born and raised in the finest neighborhoods of your community? >> well, in fact i've had much experience living in dire poverty. >> in dire part of. >> and being homeless and being at the mercy of relatives to take us in for six years while my mother worked two to three jobs at a time, but my mother was a very wise person and recognized what was necessary. she didn't listen to a lot of people who bemoaning their circumstances and always told what we could do rather than couldn't do. right now people have become victimized. they believe that someone else control of their destiny, that the american dream is not for
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them. this is something that we want to change. i know that goes against the status quo. i know that many people believe that anything that you do that changes that tenant status is eval and mean and that you're working against the people but the fact of the matter that is absolutely not the case and a lot of those people who say, you hate poor people, why are you doing this? what is it about your history that made you like that? is it maybe the fact that i did grow up in those circumstances? and see to problems associated and see what kind of things got people out of those situations? is it perhaps because i became a pediatric neurosurgeon and spent countless hours trying to save young children's lives? maybe the fact i developed a program that i brought in 700 to 800 students at time to talk to
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them how to emimprove their lives? the fact that maybe my wife and i started a scholarship program which is available in all 50 states now that recognizes not only academic achievement but humanitarian qualities but way want to develop leader who are not only smart but key care but people. maybe those things make people think i hate poor people. >> you come from the poorest of the poor and become a world renowned neurosurgeon saving children's lives. something must have gone right to bring you where you ended up and maybe you could have taken the lesson of the success store and be in a great place to implement the lessons and help other young people become the next ben carson. is that fair assessment. >> a very fair assessment and i would hope at some point that many people who are oppositional
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would actually stop and spend time discussing with us what we're doing, and i think they would recognize that it is not a useful thing to just harp on the talking points of those who oppose people -- >> mr. carson i only have 20 second left. you talk about your mom allot. now you just lost her and i'm sorry for your loss. if you were acting uncivil, and you told your mother, but, mom, i'm acting uncivil because someone else was uncivil to me, what would she say to you? >> she would say, your guide should be what is right and not what other people do. >> i yield back. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from mississippi -- missouri, mr. cleaver. >> i want to return to the whole issue of lead-based paint. and unless i'm misunderstood the
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committee yesterday, i think everyone was pretty much on the same page without concern. the government before any of us were involved, did outlaw lead-based paint in 1978, i think, or thereabouts. and so i think we have made significant progress, but i think the report shows there are about foraminal children in the united states who are still -- four million children in the united states who are living in and around lead-based paint, and i believe and i said this in the subcommittee hearing yesterday, that we can fix this problem and i think the ig has laid out some recommendations or he pointed out some flaws but we can use those as recommendations to move
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forward. one of them he said we lacked adequate oversight of lead-based paint reporting and remediation. with the stackert there. is there -- start there. there's a committee in place, i think they met last in february dealing with this issue. do you have in the progress report on where they at? it's multiagency. >> yes, there is multiagency task force. thank you for the question. first of all, as far as the ig's report is concerned, it income paced the period of time from january 2014 until december 2016. prior -- >> this problem goes -- this has nothing to do with administrations and has everything to do with kids. >> i understand. this is a very big priority of mine, particularly coming from my background in neuroscience, recognizing the profound effects
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that leading have on the developing brain. that's why we have method it's priority since i've been here, as the ig did note that we have taken into consideration all those things and have made those appropriate changes, and we're proproviding tremendous oversight now because there are requirement for all of the subsubsidized housing areas to report on a basis what they have done in order to monitor for live and they discover anybody with elevated blood levels they have an obligation to report that, and they have to work through either a physician or through the health agency, and we are following up on each one of those instances and it is making a difference. >> thank you. mr. duffy and i both agree, and every one of our panelists yesterday agreed, raised the question, can we eliminate this
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problem? everybody says yes. i agree, too, and so i said is it realistic for us to declare war and say, by the year whatever, we are going to eliminate lead-based paint as a problem in the united states in of america? not all of us are in public housing so we're talk bought people living in houses and are not public housing and completely unaware of the dangers of lead-based paint. know the damage it can do to -- i don't know as well as you. this is your area, but is it realistic, can you accept that the challenge of meeting with this multiagency group and saying, look, we can solve this problem and let's get together, declare war. the taxpayers would love it if we could end a problem and not have to revisit it again. >> i agree with you very much.
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i would very much love to eliminate that problem. we're making very good progress. the latest cdc survey in terms of blood levels for children, down to .9-micrograms per which is considerably below the target. >> my time is running out. >> the choir now recognizes the gentleman from missouri. >> thank you, mr. chairman. welcome, mr. secretary. thank you. >> in the past administration i expressed serious concern over the state of fha. we saw years where fha had last underwriting -- can you get us
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up to detroit -- up to date? >> we're very grateful we finally got fha commissioner, he has been in place for almost a month now. and that makes a very big difference. fha, as you know, is the primary source of mortgages for low-income and moderate-income pipe, first-time home buyers, minorities so place an extremely important function our society, and we have some awfully good people there, which have kept moving the ball forward. we kept the mmif above the statutory requirement of 2% for the reserve capital fund, which would not have happened, of course, if we had yielded to the pressure to lower the premium.
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so, we are paying attention to all those things. we have made tremendous progress in terms of reverse mortgages, and in terms terms of pace loand putting the taxpayer in the right position. >> reverse mortgage has been a sore spot for you. >> it has been. of course when it was put in place, people meant well, allowing seniors to age in place, but the appropriate standards were not set in terms of the amount or money that could be withdrawn, et cetera, and look after surviving spouses, all of those things have been addressed and we're continuing to make excellent progress in that area. >> thank you. i know last week the administration sent out an outline, general outline on gse reform, and would you like to comment on that or just kind of enlighten us as to hud and fha and your whole -- your part in
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this and where you see this going? i realize it was just a general outline but if you can give us a little update, that would be great. >> in terms of the housing crisis, it's really the last piece that is left, is really just you reform -- ten years later, they're still in considerer toship and that places taxpayers at additional risk. i love the fact that many people are starting to talk about how to get them out, how to put them on the playing field in the secondary market with potentially other private sector guarantors, to create real competition and still have an appropriate guarantee so that we encourage capital in the market from foreign areas. all of that is an appropriate thing to do, but what we need to do is lessen the taxpayer
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exposure and increase, i think, private capital in the secondary market. >> you bring up a great point. a colleague has a great bill trying to look at going across the board with regards to the government as a hole whole and re-insurance could come into play. >> i think those are the kinds of things we need be looking at carefully exploring. the other thing we have to do, obviously, because this is such a big part of the american economy, is we have to make sure that we don't do things that cause a big shock to the system. and then the other point i would just take a moment to reinforce as far as fha is concerned, we're dealing withive very archaic i.t., and we're dealing
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with almost $1.3 trillion portfolio. we cannot afford to put that kind of money at risk by not tending to the i.t. forecast. >> -- i.t. platform. >> the chair recognize the gentle lady from new york. >> secretary carson, the new york city housing authority needs an estimated $25 billion in capital repairs and the earlier this month, after years of investigation, they signed a consent degree with the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of new york for extensive lead and mold problems as well as for failing to provide sufficient heat to its residents within the winter months due to the ongoing maintenance challenges related to its boilers. in your expert medical opinion,
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do residents face a health we eo into this with the epa and department of justice because we were outraged that would going on and it's not on the space of false reporting. >> thank you, dr. carson. during your confirmation you stated a renewed focus on lead-based paint hazard reduction. that it what you saidded at you're hearing, since becoming secretary, what has hud done to address the issue in public housing? >> well what he was significantly increased the
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oversaying in terms of the required reporting that is done and then doing the followups on those reports, when we get evidence of anybody, particularly a children under the age of six with elevated blood levels, pursuing that situation to the apartment that they live in or the house they live in, making sure that remediation is done, and also if it happens to be a multifamily dwelling making sure any other apartment -- >> okay, so, doing proper oversight. >> absolutely. >> so, under the new consent decree, will be -- ensure compliance with the decreased immediatation requirements on capital repairs. how are you expecting -- to meet these terms and upgrades when
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you requested zero dollar for the public housing capital fund for fy2019? it is great that you are exercising proper oversight, but money talks. so, here you are, in your hearing and confirmation hearing saying that children's health in public housing is a priority and he wering facing a big crisis but yet you requested zero dollars for the public housing capital funds for ny2019. so my question to you is, how do you expect them to resolve this issue when you provide zero money? >> thank you for asking that question. because in fact one of the things that has worked so well around the country for these cap cal bag logs this read -- >> i know that time is running
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out. you know that the ranking member requested the gao to conduct an investigation and they issued a report earlier this year where they concluded that public-private partnerships such as rad, the long-term effects are not clear yet. so, the gao report said that the amount of private financing rad is able to leverage is -- they claim to leverage is higher than what is actually true. that is the gao. the arm of the congress. that is what they concluded. so, in light of that, are you going to reassess the responsibility and the role of hud in providing capital funds to make repairs and to deal with
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the issue of mold and led across the country? >> well, we could have a real discussion about the gao's finding with rad -- >> are you going to question now the gao? >> well, what i will say is that we are continuing to provide significant capital for the dish. >> zero capital, sir. you requested zero capitol. now cannot have it both ways. >> time talk doing. >> time of the gentle lady has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from michigan, chairman of our capital market subcommittee. >> -- good to see you up over here. so, we have -- i a lot of ground i want to cover here quickly. first and for most, i know that you were in michigan recently you home town of detroit, and wanted to you to maybe touch on the envision centers that you had discussed and in fact there
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was a great quote from mayor duggan from do it who added, said, quote, envision centers are about bringing services to people in neighborhood and i am thankful or partners at hud choice detroit to open the fir one. these centers with mailing the most of facilities to serve the community. love to hear about the envision centers and the trip and then maybe if you can touch on opportunity zones and then i want to talk in transition a little bit into how do we make sure that fha, fannie and freddie and the rest of the alphabet soup in the housing industry -- how do we make sure they are running effectually and share information? can we get some language? we -- graduate from assisted housing. that's what when i was in real estate, that was one of my goals
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was to help people experience that opportunity, and we all know that opportunity equals campt pork. not just -- compassion and not just sheer dollars thrown at a program. >> the envision centers are basically a mechanism-we can bring the resources to the people who need the resource e sores. so we're talk bet federal, state and local as well as private sector, nonprofits and faith-based organizations. all have things aimed at helping people, and helping people to achieve self sufficiency, some of which i didn't know about because i'm thrilled to see the response as people have come in to offer things. because -- i think probably the best way to think about it is like the hud dash bram am multiagency program in which hud provides the housing and va
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provides the wrap-around services and through the program. va homelessless massline reduce has declined by 47%. we provide wrap-around services for people living in depressed economic areas, and giving them some of the same kinds of advantages that somebody who would be born into a healthy family, with an extended family and a nurturing community would have. those things make a tremendous difference in terms of trajectory of that person's life and where they eventually end up. for instance, there's an agency that will train elderly people in a multifamily dwelling in child care and they can actually gate child care certificate and then they can get some extra earnings because in our rent proposal, we're going to take away the disinventive for getting extra earnings, but also her next door neighbor who is
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this single woman with children, now has a safe place to put her children while she gets her ged, her associates degree or bachelors -- >> presumably -- >> and teach those to her children. those are the holistic things had have to be done to get out of these chronic situations schatz shouldn't be going on in this country as far as i'm concerned. the zones, a splendid opportunity, secondary to the tax cut in jobs bill, where people can take unearned capital gains, unrealized cap gal gains, put them into an opportunity fund and economically neglected areas, up to 25% of the state's neglected areas can be designated by the governor and if those are left in long-term, they can have very substantial benefits financially for the investor but more importantly, they draw in those investments into these neglected areas and
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when we combine those with other things available, new tax credits, things of that nature, we have an opportunity to do some very major renovations. >> that could go into rural areas. i have the poorest county in the state of michigan, rural traditionally an african-american vacation spot called lake county, back during segregation era. lake county, urban areas like muskegon and kentwood and wyoming. so many other things i'd love to hear and will write you about hermanization of data for fannie and freddie and fha but love to have you on the west sites so we can visit lake county -- >> i look forward to it. >> time has expired. the chairman recognize the gentleman from new york, mr. meeks. >> thank you, mr. chairman. let me first say, also, -- i'm a product of public housing
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myself. lived in public housing until such time i graduated law school, with my parents. and as i look at public housing today is it not what it was then. the investments that were being made in public housing so a child like me would have an opportunity and at the friend i have, would have an opportunity, are not there. when i look at budgets and where we're emphasizing, et cetera, the opportunity that i had are not there. and what i'm trying to get is a clear vision of where we're going because i still don't see under the current proposals how we get to there. those things that benefited me. my parents. and one thing that is a talk to individuals in the public housing developments that i currently represent, they were -- in all very concerned but their rent going up.
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the number one issue that's come to me. in that proposal i understand you're saying now it's not but in that proposal that you had which becomes even more troublesome is how to get to deducting or not? so, in your proposal, i think proposed to eliminate deductions for medical costs, child care costs, which i know the city like mine, be very great, so if you take away the deducts the person will be compelled to pie a higher rent if they can't take that away from what they pay to afford their family. so my first question is, do you concede that if you take away the deductions this policy will make rent much more expensive for individuals? >> we have look at that. we looked at the statistics and the numbers and the number of families who would beck fade.
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primarily you'll be talking about elderly people people when it comes to the medical deducts and we pressure protected them. when it comes to the child delucks a new tax plan actually doubles the child deduction. so, that comes out to pretty much a wash. >> i think that -- i look at my case, if my parents -- my brothers and sisters, we had a brother and two sisters, if that cost went up, the rent allowed them to prepare me, give me the town go to school. i they could not pay that rent we have been the street and i wouldn't be here today, and so when i look at -- because i think that is unfortunate is the stereotyping that awe a lot of individuals in public housing get, that no one in public housing works or anything of
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that nature, when if you look it's believe right now, with 75% of the individuals in public housing are workers. they're working now. they're what we call the working poor, many of them. and sew deductions like that will cause the working poor not be able to move, and as a result, i think -- that's some discriminatory practices -- ts e they're my concerns also. we want basically the same thing, and i think we can come to a reasonable agreement how that's done, but when you actually have a chance to look at the numbers, you see the impact, it is not as great as you might think but one thing that is very impactful is the fact that we have approximately
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3.2 million different rents being paid because people who have very similar incomes can have very different -- we need to -- make that -- >> in high income areas like new york, that cost is substantially different, so those who have a high level of rent, where the cost of rent is exceedingly high in new york compared to other places and have a very negative impact of individual inside studies like new york and chicago and los angeles because of the high cost of living. and i don't if i have time. want to know about the afurther fair housing rule that i understand is now being changed and the purpose was to make sure that we wipe out discrimination regardless of the intent, because discrimination is
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illegal. maybe you can give me that in writing. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from missouri, miss wagner, chair of the overall sight and investigations subcommittee. >> thank you, and welcome secretary carson. >> thank you. >> the -- secretary carson, the community development block grant disaster recovery program is comprised of relief funds which are designed to allow communities to rebuild critical infrastructure after a catastrophic event, and as you the tis program is run by your agency. in testimony before the full committee last year you noted some of the things done through the program has of have been, quote, questionable, and given the fact that congress appropriated nearly $30 billion this year in this 115th congress for storm nikolas texas and florida and
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puerto rico and has over the history of the program dispensed some $85 billion of taxpayer money, has hud done something i to address the questionable concerns. >> thank you for the question. last time we were actually talking about cdbg and the questionable as opposed to dr which are two different programs, but having said that, yes, we have hired a cfo and we have been without a cfo for many years, which was quite evidence when he came in and looked at things and was ready to rein out but we restrained him. no we're putting in excellent financial controls, particularly in terms of grant funding. so, i think you'll see a major difference there. >> and we have taken this up in the committee also, especially based on the enspector general's report last year -- inspector general's report and i hope you have look at that.
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the ig indicated, that the department faces significant challenges in monitoring disaster program funds provided to various grantees, including states and cities and local governments under the purview. mr. secretary, how would you raid hud's response to the most recent storms and what steps has your agency taken to protect the billions of dollars in taxpayer money current by being disbursed. >> we have been very concerned but that with the ration of storms we just -- the rash of storm wed went through and particularly with the large 0 amounts of money allocated to various location and we have been working close withly local teams in terms of technical assistance and in terms of hear our cfo visits places like passion passion on more than -- puerto rico on american one occasion to work with their infrastructure there to make sure the fund are adequately
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contributed and we'll be monitoring that very carefully. >> very program is managed through -- badly through federal register notices, some 60 of them which can be confusing to grantees who are looking to secure a grant after a federally declared disaster, so i mentioned a little earlier that earlier this month, our committee passed on a very bipartisan basis and much thanks to your staff for working with us on this dish was proud to author this piece of legislation that, among other things, would actually codify the disaster recovery program and provide itself with some stability. based on your expensive with the dares do you believe having the program in statute as oppose ted federal register would produce better outcomes especially given the fact it takes hud months to finalize guidance in the federal
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register process. >> i appreciate your interest and working with our staff and we'll continue to work very carefully with you. that's something that could potentially have some benefit. we do have to make sure that we maintain enough flexibility to be able to rapidly respond in disaster areas but it's absolutely -- >> i'll give you more flexibility to respond more rapidly because going through a federal register with 60 different notices is beyond cumbersome, with ha many good government transparency and accountability issues make sugar the money actually gets to those that have been affected and need it the most. without duplication, and with true accountability. do you believe lud should place a time frame on how long money is available to states and grantees? for example we have fund frog disasters all -- funding from disasters all the way back to 9/11. billions of dollars.
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so $14.5 billion that we believe needs to be recaptured and put into future events. >> yes, we have just gone through and exercised and recapturing that. i believe that's very legitimate concern. >> thank you. >> time of the genty later has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from missouri, mr. clay. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you over here, dr. carson, good to see you after several years. great to be back with you. we shear, i having grownup two of america's inner cities. you detroit, and me in st. louis, and i guess win we were growing up, one of the big challenges for african-americans was home ownership. and today we have reached an
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all-time low in home ownership so i am -- part of that is due to the housing crisis because african-american home owners were steered into higher priced loans,, with balloon payments ad all of that, and so what i'm looking for are -- is a way that we could working to on how we help bring the numbers up in home ownership and you know what the value is of home ownership in our society, because we know it helps families feel well. so like to hear how the fha and gse may be connected to how we increase home ownership in our communities. >> thank you for your concern in that area because it's a great concern of mine also. the average renter has a net worth of $5,000, the average
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home owner $200,000. that's a 40-fold difference. but we have to obviously do it carefully because the way things were addressed before the housing crisis, they didn't consider the fact that putting somebody in a house they can't afford is not doing them favor. they lose the house, their credit and future opportunities so we never want to go down that road again but we do have to look at creative and innovative things. some of the self-sufficiency programs we have, one of thing we're working on now is a way that we take part of the monthly subsidy and put into it an escrows, and that is used for the routine maintenance of that apartment. so, if there's a lot of routine maintenance, the screens already have holes in them, the lights're -- always calling the plumber, it's not going to grow very much but if you learn to start thinking like a home owner and fix those things yourself,
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it does grow and when you leave, if you can get that money for a down payment -- that often is the major barrier. people are working hard enough that they would be able to sustain themselves but they would never be able to accumulate a down payment. so those kinds of things are things we're thinking about. would be delighted work with you because it's a great concern of mine also. >> having just celebrated the 50th anniversary of the fair housing act, as you know, from the data is cite important when you think about redlining and how banks and mortgage companies treat different classes of people who want mortgages, and so i would hope that hud would
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hold that data and realize how important it is because that's how you fight redlining, and just want ted hear your thought about that. >> absolutely. i am well aware that -- it's something that we're watching very, very carefully, and i have told the leaders of the low-housing coalition that i was willing to work with them, talk with them, on how we could better address any of the discriminatory pressures they found -- practices they found and i also offered that to them and anybody, iover find some real discriminatory issues going on, the kinds of things that hud has neglected in the past, we want to know about them. we'll be on them like white on rice. >> thank you for that response. one last issue is the pace program. i've had constituents tell me
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it's a program that puts people to work and i noticed in your statement that it was something that you had to put a check on. can you explain that? >> yeah. because the pace loans were placed in front of the fha. so it really put the taxpayers at risk. that's why. >> great. see my time is up. i yield back. >> the time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognize the gentleman from cushing, mr. barr, chairman of the monetary policy and trade subcommittee. >> thank you, mr. chairman and mr. secretary. again, thank you so much for visiting our district in central kentucky last january, and visiting the hope center and recovery kentucky and st. james place and shepherds house, all of those wonderful nonprofits that showcased a transitional housing model for long-term
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addition recovery. >> great example. >> we appreciatedow learning more about that and being hope to supporting through hud programming these models of supportive housing and support and care management to reduce substance abuse and addiction. their university of kentucky did a study as we shared with you, that showed these programs result in avoided costs of $2.71 -- $2.71 for every dollar spent because it's leads to addiction recovery, long-term addiction recovery and self-sufficiency. i love what you're doing with these envision centers. i read with interest your commitment to the continuum of care program, to help fight the opioid addiction crisis in our communities, and, again, contribute to that long-term objective of self-sufficiency and recovery. how is hud in addition to those thing -- hour is hud partner are
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wig nonprofits, faith baited and other private seconder entitieses to improved access to counseling and treatment for opioid addiction and other substance abuse disorders. >> that's one of the real pushes in he envision center is the counseling and the prevention. the prevention is incredibly important. i don't think we have talked about it enough because it's very easy for a person to become addicted. you can do that within a matter of five to seven days. but the changes that occur in the brain generally take somewhere between 12 and 18 months to reverse. so, this is an incredibly serious issue, and it can happen to anybody across all demographics, none of us needs to look down our nose at somebody who is addicted to opioids but we do need to be working on what we can do to ail ameliorate that situation we're talking but the work force.
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>> for what your doing and we want to provide that flexibility you requested. the thrive act was passed by the house this month and that provides a demonstration project for housing choice vouch at thes to nonprofits to provide for a mottle supportive housing transitional housing for long-term addition recovery. >> thank you for working so hard on that. >> as you know, mr. secretary, regulation should not unnecessarily limit choices or add to the cost of a home but this is unfortunately has been our experience with hud regs layings on manufactured housing. head regulations regulations ar- hud regs let's are raising costs, reducing options for pop layer amenities with no safety or current benefit. i examples including requirements for home features claimed after a manufactured home is delivered, including french doors, tile surrounding the bathroom and carports. want to commend you and your department for announcing a comprehensive review of all
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regulation impacting manufacture erred house. i appreciate your -- that they require full and thorough review and the public comment period for that review ended at the end of february. can you shed some lying nor committee on -- some light on your plan to -- >> that's been a major priority of mine, recognizing the role of manufactured housing in this country. 10% of single family housing is manufactured housing. 22 million families, and the regulatory burden has been absolutely ridiculous. i prevents, for instance, like in new mexico, the oil workers, they can't use a manufactured house because of some of the regulations. we're looking at those and getting rid of those. so that it makes sense so we use manufacturing housing has has made so much progress. you cannot tell a manufactured
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house from a site-built hold. they stand up to hurricanes much better. >> when we talk but empowering low, income americans to help them achieve that dream of home ownership we need unleash manufacturedded hours housing as an opportunity. >> one of the solutions. >> absolutely. finally, we hear this refrain from many of cower colleagues on theside the aisle that the tax bill was tax cuts for at the reach, even though according at the nonpartisan tax policy center, households in he top 20% of income earnings will pay more in 2018 compared to last year in terms of the total incomes taxes collected and by contrast, those in the lower 60% of income earnings will contribute less. i just want -- my time expired but these opportunity sonseses is an example of the tax tuts helping low income americans. >> the time of the gentleman has
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expired. >> i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from georgia, mr. scott. >> thank you, mr. chairman, over here. welcome back. >> thank you. >> good to have you've, secretary carson. secretary, i examined your background and looked at your bio, and you and i have some things very much in common. both of our parents did domestic work, and mine, for example, i lived women the, we did -- my mother was the cook and maid and my father the chauffeur and butler in scarsdale, new york, where is was not only the only african-american kid in my school at junior high school but also also the only african-american in the whole city, the only african-american kid in the whole city of scarsdale. but we had parents there that took interest and focused us and were hard working, and without
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that, plus a helping hand, many helping hands, for us to come to where you're sitting as a cabinet official for the president of the united states, of course to me and n my 15th 15th year of congress-wouldn't have made it wow loving parents that gave us that discipline, courage, and also the helping hand. you all the way becoming a neurosurgeon. how mighty is that? to come from your background. me, coming from mine, sitting in congress, and here we are, but it's the helping hand, and what is so problematic to many people in this country is your inability to understand that zeroing out the budget for the
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one major helping hand for the poor, the cbdg program, that's gotten over 400,000 jobs for people. 1.8 million homes there. and you're zeroing out that bug and i want you to think hard, man, about those helping hands, because when you zero out the budget, of the cbdg program, you're cutting off the helping hand for the poor, and so i want you to think about that. i want to ask you if you could commit, right now, before this committee, to just go to the president, go to mick null
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vainy -- mulvaney, ought budget director and say let's not cut this helping hand out. it's too valuable. would you do that? >> i might leave that to you but what i will commit to is the things that work very effectively in that program to maintaining those. >> well, let me tell you this, in kalb county, my kalb glock any district, i've just gotten a message from the chairman, michael bitts, the call county chairman -- it's my largest, most significant county, and they tell me that call county alone -- kalb county alone that experienced a $600,000 deklain in cbgd funding this year. now, for those who may not know where kalb county is, it's the
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home of lockheed and now the home of the atlanta braves. it's the home of our soccer team that's winning. it is the fastest, most economically growing area. however, there is a concentration of poor people who need this helping hand, and i want to ask you to do more than say, it's up to me. to talk to the president. unfortunately, the president ain't going to talk to me. but that's why he has got you. to talk to that is your job. when you were here before, i told you, you were a cover being yard -- used to do exactly what
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you're doing. now go back to your mother, and your father, and my mother and father, working in those jobs, as domestics, but it didn't stop there. you were not be where you are sitting bought that helping hand. don't cut the helping hand off. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from oklahoma, mr. lucas. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and mr. secretary, it's go to be here with you today. >> thank you. >> as is typically the focus of the committee when someone like yourself comes we have a very strong prospective from our districts and i'd like to chat this morning about the administration's proposed delivering government solutions in the 21st century reorganization plan. with that proposal is a plan to combine the offers of rule housing service from united states department of agriculture
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into the department of housing and urban development. now, i acknowledge to you i represent a very rural district, and potentially there might ben ebercows than people in my district but a that's okay, too, but rural communities face unique challenges, many ways different and perhaps those beyond the particular housing agency buyer. in fact eligible rural homes may not always immediate the fhr housing sister us would because of where they and are the truck around them. cue explain for just a little bit or visit with me about why hud is a better place or a bert equipped to meet the needs of rural communities? >> thank you for that question. interestingly enough, hud already services more of the rural community than usda does so it's not a difficult shift, and the whole purpose of the
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reorientation is to prevent duplication, and to increase efficiency. one thing we have to reek nice right -- recognize right now is we have a severe fiscal crisis looming. 30 years, if we continue to accumulate debt at the same rate, every penny we take in will webe bad to servicer the date. there will be no money for cdbf or money for any program or money for the military a lot of countries have been bankrupt. it's a disaster when it happens. affects everybody, and they knew 30 years ahead of time they were glowing, too but didn't do anything. you have to say you have to have money for this women have to learn to be fiscally responsible and at the same time, take care of our coverage compassion that needses and we do that if we
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work together. >> thank you. like all good reorganization plans everything has to to be considered by congress and passed in this body the other body. having set for a number of years next to the owe mb director when he was a subsubcommittee member, i look forward to visiting women him about hi plans,ty yield back and thank the secretary for his time. >> the chair now wreck nyes the gentleman from texas, mr. green, ranking member of our oversaying investigations subcommittee. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i thank the ranking member. i thank doctor carson for appearing today. dr. carson, my visit with you will be brief because i have some closing comments that i must call to the attention of not only the committee but of people who may be listening.
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dr. carson, there are people in this country who are renters, who have thin credit, who pay their light, gas, phone, utilities, they pay all of their bills timely, and they can't afford a home. home ownership is at oh 40 year low. 25 million of these people exist. there are other estimates that will take this number as high as 35 million. we had a bill, hr123, it deals with alternative credit scoring, but really it's additional credit scoring because it does not remove anything that is currently being score. it simply adds more to it. and we passed this legislation initially in the fha -- the economic recovery act of 2008.
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and fha was to give us a pilot program, an automated system. the question is this. will you work with to us develop an automated system so that people who are credit, worthy, not one person who severs -- receives a loan would by anything bit credit worthy by the standards we currently help. work to help us implement such program? >> well, thank you so much for working on that because it's very important issue, and there are different kinds of credit. something we have been talking about a lot lately and will be very happy to work with you on that. >> thank you. i'm going to now move to another area because earlier there was talk about civility and respect and it causes me to have to simply say this.
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where were you? where were you when he president of the united states of america said to members of the police officers, you don't have to be so nice when you have a person within your care, custodier and control? i'm fair phrasing him but that's what was said. this is not directed to you, disaster dr. carson, where where are your outrage, knowing the history of police brutality in this country as it relates to certain people? knowing that you have seen people shot in the back as they were returning away? knowing that people have been abused at the hands of the constabulary where when they were literally overwhelmed with police officers. eric garner, tamir rice.
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where was you outrage then? what is wrong with us? are we afraid of this president to at the extent that we can now become outraged because we have somebody that we think won't be able to punch back? when this president has done to civility is unpardonable. where is your sense of outrage when charlottesville erupted and a person lost her life? where was your sense of jot rage were when the president of the united states of america said, there are some very nice people among the klan. white supremacists, neo-nazis. where were you? what is wrong with us? we've get a president who is
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inculcating bigotry into policy. it's no accident that they're now talking but doing with with diversity visas after the president called certain countries in africa s-hole countries. that's bigotry and policy. ... make other forms of protest inevitable. >> the chair now recognizes the gentleman from new mexico, in the finance subcommittee. >> mister chairman, thanks
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for being here today and i appreciate your work on these critical issues that affect so many. in new mexico we hired a high percentage of our housing units are manufactured housing so i'll let you answer the question, we currently each hud code prohibits manufacturing from being used as multi family dwelling normal type person dwelling so we have a tremendous lumbering on a couple of county so the infrastructure is estimated to be there for about 25,000 people. the current usage, we can't take an exact census, estimates are maybe 80 to 90,000 people are there using the facilities . the rent in a local hotel that was yes last year $100 a
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night is close to $600 a night now so your average worker can't afford that. there are no houses. so you have many manufactured houses to be converted are available for multiple families or multiple people staying in them. you said earlier the department had announced they were going to review this problem earlier this year. you have any idea when that review is going to come out? >> it should come out this year. >> we are on the way to getting that. >>'s a priority. >> is there any clarity on whether or not you are going to be able to accommodate these requests from local people? >> i would expect so do you have any reports from stakeholders as they make comments about this? is it something that showed out about the problem in the
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comment phase? >> i have not reviewed all but i'm pretty sure it has . >> the building codes don't -- your building codes are trying to assure that everything is built to a safe and your there affecting how they are used as the number of people which i'm not sure i get the code correlation between safety and the number of the people being described or whether it's multi family or not . is that something you are going to review? >> illogical which isprobably why you don't get it, i get either . >> last year i had the opportunity to visit and you indicated you might be able to come to new mexico and look at some of the native american housing groups that are building their own houses on our reservation a couple
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years ago we cut the ribbon on a native american hole on a reservation, 3700 square feet, ceilings that would fit any of the neighborhood in albuquerque. it was also financed by him back because the tribes are beginning to understand if they get longer term leases for the land , they can get that financing from the back. so is that something that you still would entertain, going to new mexico to look at some of these units? >> i think that would be interesting. in my travel budget only have $21,000 left but i'll get there. >> we traveled pretty cheap in new mexico, we can figure out. i would welcome you there because new mexico has
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probably a greater percent of population struggling in poverty. we got 45 percent of people on medicaid in the state, 905,000 people out of the 2 million population so there's anyplace that needs housing in order to establish that first foothold on the way up the ladder, that's something that i think we would find useful in the discussion between yourself and new mexico residents. >> we look forward to hosting you there and we got great mexican food and green chilies we look forward to seeing you there. >> i met a young woman from new mexico yesterday, absolutely incredible. >> thank you and i appreciate your service server and i yelled back to mister chairman. >> we now recognize the gentle lady from ohio. >> thank you. when we open the session today i believe it was our chairman that started with words like i believe that words matter. let me say i certainly believe that words matter.
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we talked about diversity of words and i not only believe in diversity of words but diverse city in race and ethnicity. i believe in diversity in housing and we know there are many disparities. we've heard some of our colleagues talk about discrimination in housing but let's go to diverse city of words, whether they are the words we speak here, certainly thank god for technology or whether it's you sittingas the secretary, whether it was secretary donovan , chairman cordray sitting there. we all should look at some of those before we make comments. but he say to you as you know and hopefully will recall when you were here before we certainly had a dialogue about my expectations of diversity and words through written communication . i had shared with you i had
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sent you a letter from my congressional stationery last year about hud's policies on fha. in march, i joined with other members including the chairman of the congressional office . i then sent you a signed letter. familiar with that letter that we sent you about discrimination? >> i have gotten so many letters, could you remind me of the contents? >> we had this conversation and i was very clear with you that my expectation would be like any other secretary or chairman that if i would send you a letter when you make a commitment to read it and look at? i don't know how many members letters from letters upon you
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sent me a letter signed where chief of staff, it would here on my desk and if i knew i were coming back here, after being drilled by a member who has oversight of your department, i would probably make a special effort. we all have heard of people who have agriculture. my which i have said repeatedly, i'm concerned that we don't discriminate and when you ask person that circulates a letter that you are going to remove antidiscrimination letters, words from your mission, that was very concerning, enough to not only me but two other members on this committee. the chairman of the congressional black caucus so let me ask you, i didn't get a response back. two months later response back from a staff person who i know. is repulsive to me because the we had this conversation, words matter. your words were that you respond if you got a letter
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from me. you didn't have to. you're an american man who doubts that you grew up in public housing so let me go to the real question, are you certainly are looking at taking that antidiscrimination clause that your you said? >> responded to that part because i can tellyou, you didn't see the letter, you did sign the letter. two months later some staff person send me a letter . >> we have a process in place where we decided to change the statements to the shorter or something that people remember, but that was still encompassing all the goals. >> and it's only a new statement? so i can compare it and read the statement that they were stating was going to be changed. what are you replacing with
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that hud's mission is to ensure americans have access to fair, affordable housing and opportunities to achieve sufficiency, thereby pressing our communities in nature. the first iteration. the second iteration went to the entire senior staff and the third-generation. >> was the last iteration? >> the last one goes to all hud employees. that's why the process is taking a while. this is the first time ever done that way. >> in the interim, is this in or out. >> that's not the final phase. >> we are operating now. >> we haven't gotten to the final statement yet. >> my time is about to run out and i wanted to ask you about the rent . >> the time of the gentle lady has expired, we now recognize the germanfrom florida . >> secretary carson, thank
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youfor your amazing service . thank you for your amazing service and your much needed leadership of an agency that wandered in the wilderness for too many years. and of course thank you for coming here today. and answering questions and accusations answer questions, they wouldn't allow you time to answer them. thank you for the gentlemanly way that you make us all proud. i know that you agree with me that homeownership is at the center of the american dream as you probably know in july 2016 congress passed hr 3700, directing hud.rule changes to easy owners restrictions fha loans as they pertain to condominiums. >> in september, 2016. fha purchased published
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proposed rule in accordance with thecongressional request . and those proposed rules would open up homeownership to many more well-qualified first-time homeowners. unfortunately the agency has not yet finalized the rule area on the 20, i sent a letter along with my good friend congressman cleaver and 120 other members of the house. just diverse, across the universe section of homemakers is fine. attempting to finalize the rule as possible. so ask unanimous requests into my record and. >> without objection. >> i wonder if you could bring us up-to-date on where we stand on that right now. >> is an important issue
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because condominiums frequently, the first step in entering into the homeownership market, and particularly for millennial's. that's what i've been concerned about. it's a complex issue because when you're talking about a single or just a couple of units in the entire complex, the risk go quiet today. so working all the rule should be out. >> thank you. >> and because you've been asked questions and cast aspersions and accusations enough and allowed the opportunity to respond i'd like to use my remaining time you for any remarks you'dlike to . >> thank you for that. i definitely want to say that particularly when we go back to the issue of the civility, our country is an incredible place. it is very strong. it's there's no one on
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outside in this bringing this country down. but we can bring it down from inside. we house divided against itself cannot stand. a lincoln. and when we get to a place where we can't even hear the other side, we're just waiting until they stop so we can talk about what we believe, we're in a dangerous waste. that people use their spheres of influence to help save our nation. >>. >> gentlemen, i you back. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from massachusetts. >> doctor carson, i received your last remarks and i'm asking if you would pass that on to the president himself. >> the need for civility should go to. >>. >> and i do appreciate your
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remarks about fiscal responsibility but i do point out that recently we passed, as about $2.3 trillion so it seems like we are running towards bankruptcy and not away from it but i'm one of the few members of congress that has grown up in public housing in south boston . the old coney housing projects. now the colony named after my mom, my five sisters and i with my mom and pop. i know your history, it seems you with a little while in dorchester in boston. >> i grew up in lincoln park. >> i take soil samples there
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once a week but like your family, things weren't always easy and we struggle. my dad use to say that there were times in ourfamily where we had to save up to be poor and i think he was only kidding . but public housing was a blessing to us. we would have been homeless without it. and there are a lot of people i represent in dorchester and in south boston and in other parts of my district that the rents are going up so fast that we not only need affordable housing or low income but we need affordable housing or what we call workforce housing, when people with mom or dad worked in full-time jobs, sometimes a couple of jobs and still can't afford a bedroom apartment. it's ridiculous.
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so i worry about the direction that the federal government is going in. i wonder about policies articulated i hud recently and developing public housing is a shared responsibility. i see the state is trying to step up, the state of massachusetts is doing a great job. our cities are doing their best but the magic sauce, the special sauce that makes us all work is really cdbg grants and tax credits and the historic housing tax credit. we are converting a lot of old buildings into affordable housing and that historic credit helps a lot. today, you need about six or seven sources of funding to get projects done. and that low income housing tax credit attracts private
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capital into those projects. it really makes it work so i worry when i hear that we are backing off from that commitment at the federal level because i think that is a private investment , when they buy those low income housing tax credits, we turn that money into public housing and its private money that does so no it's a private side model that works and i'm just very nervous about the administration not understanding back and backing away from that commitment . do you have any clarifying remarks on that? >> first of all, the low income housing tax credit was preserved in its entirety in the new tax cut bill. we do fully recognize the work and i think that combined with some of the other programs including the opportunities will provide
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some extra funding you are talking about. because as i travel across the country i looked at some of the developments like eastlake in which was in one of the worst areas possible in terms of crime, poor school performance, everything that was bad and look at it now. the schools are achieving the highest levels, charter schools , higher than the private schools and there's no food desert. you have jobs. those are the kinds of development that we need to create around the country and this is what we are concentrating on now and it's done best through private publicpartnerships but it has to be done in a way in which you have a win-win situation for everybody . >> i appreciate that the analysis of the tax bill says it will reduce the number of affordable housing units 235,000 units but thank you for your indulgencemister chairman . >> the time of the gentleman
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has expired, the chairman recognizes this chairman. >> thank you for being here, youfor your work and i'll want to jump right back into questions if i may . the mccarran ferguson act unless congress says otherwise, insurance is regulated by state and that the state level in the united states. you believe hud has the authority to regulate using insurance or otherwise?>> i have not read any documents that gave us that authority. >> i'm going to move on to specific situations, my district is outside of chicago, western supper and northern suburbs of chicago but i did want to ask a little bit about some discussion that we recently, a washington post article some situations with payroll illinois which is our other end in the southern part of illinois and mason 2015, washington post front page
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article entitled illinois and i reckons with public housing as the ball hangs on. it illinois, 2300, where public housing, and one quarter of the population and there's no grocery store, no hospital, poverty rate is 46 percent and a few years ago i made a decision to demolish the ride public housing complex action that some believe caused the death of the town.mister secretary, give us an update on what's happening in terms of the demolition of this public housing unit and if you can talk about why did hud decide to demolish thebuildings and what were the circumstances . >> this was not housing complex that was severely affected by the public housing, the effect that press charges against two of the individuals. they should be get what they
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deserve what they had fallen into such disrepair,, mold, racks, roaches, could not be rehabilitated. that was the reason they had to go into conservatorship and then close down. we everybody in there. >> you talk about a little bit? what's the plan there? >> with housing choice vouchers, not only did we provide housing choice letters but counseling and assistance in terms of how to be able to move and the reason that was important to do is because this is with no industry, no jobs. so let's say you had gone in, replace it and got a new facility, there still would have been nothing to support it so those are the kind of things you have to look at. when i was there talking to the stateofficials, i said
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look at the location of this place . you've got the rivers coming in there, you got railroads, it is actually a place where something could be done but i think that's another different kind of investment but until you have the businesses there, you'renot going to be supported . >>, i appreciate helping us understand a little bit more, just transitioning in last minute, i want to thank you for the opportunity to employ action, the rivers outgoing secretaryƔinsurancepremium reduction . it's a decision ported by comprehensive analysis in the most recent actuarial report on the health of the mutual boarded fund and insurance fund, the fha plays an importantrole in housing finance system . share is elevated above historic norms. the sustainability standpoint, i believe a fine print would be appropriate to
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ensure the fha is not exposing taxpayers undue risk while ensuring can serve borrowers. what is fha's mission and specifically, giving a more precise statutory definition. >> the agency's purpose is really to stabilize the housing market. has sortof an accordion affect . when credit is key, it shrinks and credit becomes difficult and the market becomes difficult, it expands. andit's a very stabilizing force . it provides opportunities for a lot of the lower income people, first time home buyers and that will continue to be very much the mission of fha. >> you believe the fha should reduce the focus on borrowers that need the package? >> i didn't quite accept. >> you believe the fha should reduce its footprint and focus on borrower that need
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agencies, especially when accordion is reached. >> .for them to remain an accordion position so that we keep the market stabilize. >> the time has expired and the chair recognizes the gentleman from connecticut. >>. >> you mister chairman. thank you mister secretary for being with us today. ask we had an opportunity to chat or meet but i'd love to tell you a little bit about my district and ask a specific question about a hud program is important to the region. i represent one of the most affluent districts in the country, fairfield county connecticut. communities of real affluence but also communities of intense poverty, the city of bridgeport is us struggling city and i know you were just in connecticutso you got for this . the reason i highlight that is because in those communities, people who are
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struggling in poverty are not just struggling in poverty but doing it chic by cattle with immense affluence so i appreciated your testimony but one element of the testimony in my craw a bit which is my colleagues were concerned about the raising of rats for people at the lowest income levels. this is by hud programs $50-$150. i think you and i could sustain that increase pretty comfortably for an awful lot of the families in bridgeport and sanford, difference is the difference between eating , buying medicine, saving money for their kids to go to school and drilled your answer was there are not that many people who fall into that category and that makes me happy all i'm not sure i agree necessarily introduce the number of people living in poverty. ask your answer because there's not that many people
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living in those conditions, you and i could sustain those rent increases by hand and i know the choices that are forced on them by program would be very difficult. so in my community, not only do i have some intense poverty and so my communities but because i. washington san francisco and new york city, right up until the upper-middle-class, people are housing rests, paying more for rent or the mortgage then is comfortable for them to do so and at some point it's not even comfort, do i get space for my children's college education because my rent is so high? that leads to things that maybe are not morally as devastating as the conditions of poverty but in a lot of my communities, firefighters and policemen and teachers live in the house they serve me or not coaching little league or participating in the communities they serve so i think their mission is a huge
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one and important one, particularly for those of us who live in i areas. the specific and my forward to your predecessors talking about the larger issues that deal with. the specific question i have for you mister secretary, highlights financing programs. federal financing back partners with the fha and a public-private partnership to basically provide low-cost distributed through a network of local housing finance agencies. program helping to finance some 20,000 affordable homes across the country including 3000 in new york city which is part of the economic ecosystem in which my district operates. this program will expire at the end of this fiscal year unless hud extended and i
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hear that hud is thinking about not extending the program. the public-private partnership, it doesn't cost money. it's been successful witnessed by the volume of housing but my question and i maybe catch you off guard but has to think about a more comprehensive response if i am catching you off guard but would you support extending the federal financing and risksharing program to ensure that housing finance agencies can continue to finance affordable housing and development of the low-cost center. >> just addressing something you said earlier, for those families who have extensive hardships with any rent increase, we do have waivers that we can extend those situations and would do so. as far as the efficacy is concerned, we have been engaged in those positions recently. >> i'm waiting for people to give me a definite
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recommendation on it. >> thank you and i appreciate that and i know that hud is a complex thing and i'm close enough to know that some things work really well and some things work less well. this program is one where i come from that works well so i you will get your most comprehensive and ultimately positive consideration. with that. >> we now recognize the gentleman from north carolina. >> carson. thank you my are a model of efficiency. >> you represent the best of all of us. like america, america's is the most generous country in the world. >> it seems to be a safety net for those who need help. and it's on its way to becoming self-sustaining at the same time representative,
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you are seeking the best interest of the taxpayer. you are trying to reform an agency that has bad been since the 1980s. 4.7 million people are involved, that's a lot of vested interest. you are willing to wade in to an area with a lot of folks looking after you. and i thank you for your demeanor, proverbs 15 one says it turns way back, you know that very well. >> you represent the best that and i think that frankly is why you will continue to be so successful. i would also like to thank the gentleman from fayetteville. you showed those down there you care. 98,000 homes were ravaged through hurricane matthew, 18,000 businesses were virtually destroyed and you took the time to come to that small town to say i'm going to stand with you now and in the future. i want you to know they see
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that with deep gratitude and i do. still, others were waiting to be released from our state to be sent down. you allocated it, we don't seem to be doing as good a job in the state that dispersing it but other states have andthat's our problem . i'd like to know from you any way that you think we can incentivize or enforce or timelines orwhatever , states to better do their job? it's hard enough at the federal level due to fema and everything that must be done but there are people still waiting as a result of what happened here but frankly in their own state. >> first of all, thank you for your incredible dedication to north carolina and i enjoyed very much being there with you and the people there obviously, they enjoyed you being there too. i just you know, that we can
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find a way to get the state to move more rapidly. maybe we should put a time limit on the money. it's something i've been thinking about a lot because i've been looking through the books. there are places that have money left over from 10, 11 years ago that doesn't make any sense . we are looking at that. we've got to come up with it. >> it's very interesting, south carolina as the first funds of money for the same reason that you sent them and our state for some reason was driving on, it hadn't done it. i have one other different issue and want to raise with you in the time we have left. there's a top official in hud last week who said, referred to the critical element of housing finance reform as a need to modernize risk management and technology platforms of the fha.
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according to this official and i quote, the difference now between the fha and say email or freddie mac really is stark. we are in the dark ages. mister secretary, talk, or how excited are you about the current state of fha's risk management? >> we're looking at $1.3 trillion. that's a lotof money. and you're also looking at people's personal information . there's a lot of stuff there and we're so far behind , we can't keep up with the financial markets we are dealing with . that makes it much easier for people to potentially get into our systems and reach and why should we wait until that happens and then become alarmed about it? why don't we do something about it for that happens? we get that message across to all the appropriate.
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>> given the fact that they needed already owns fannie mae and freddie mac, >> do human existence in this process? >> what would be nice if instead of a lot of the money that is generated, going back to the treasury, we would be able to use some of that money to do, that would solve the problem. >> i appreciate very much. >> the time ofthe gentleman has expired and the chair recognizes the gentleman from washington . >>. >> i want to begin by commending you for your consumption, the newly issued report from the democrat coalition housing and find missing millions of homes. we transferred into this office and i you will take time to go over it. our conclusion is that we are missing homes, the conclusion
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was based in so part on data that we collected from hud and this is, this is characterized as short falling construction and both subsidize and the market rate construction. the you agree?are we missing millions of homes in america? >> we havea severe shortage . >> so we also have the respective that there is pressure on public housing authorities and other federal housing programsexcellent to continue to grow until we figure out a way . throughout the market. >> but especially in parts of the country where the shortfall is the greatest. we don't have national housing markets but we have a national housing crisis. and in those areas, that's where the crisis is growing frankly astronomical rates. so what can hud do to
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increase homebuilding overall? in publicly owned or that? i would add as a qualifier especially in walkable urban areas near myfriend, that frankly where there's an increased demand , the marketplace must say what can hud do? >> one of the things we are looking at doing right now ruby aff h is incentivizing people to remove the barriers creation of affordable housing. there are a lot of barriers on zoning restrictions, all kinds of things that prevent us from being able to provide for affordable housing area and we begin to concentrate on those things more, i think we can get it done. the other thing we have to recognize is the more people that we can empower and move through the system, the more room we make for those people in line we should protect it from both ends.
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>> is there a way for our clients are hud could use its capacity to rise, increase instruction? >> and you would be not only subjective to be supportive of that? >>. >> i want to make this point that our data shows that for his family, actually the cost of shelter, not what you might intuitively conclude either healthcare or secondary indication but housing over the last 15 to 20 years . obviously healthcare costs and education costs a lot of attention. i think they should. but i don't think we spend nearly enough time talking about what i would characterize as prices in housing costs. >> what can you do, what can hud you with your platform to
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raise the profile of this issue overall? and do youagree with the premise . this is no smart or derived from you, housing calls are increasing faster than even healthcare and an education and again, this is across the market. this isn't just people not being able to graduate into the bigger better house, people not being able to get the starter home, it's rent burden people, people who are publicly subsidized who are having an even more difficult time maintaining shelter results in an increased number of homelessness so what can you do to raise the profile if this is an issue that affects the entire continuum of housing available? >> that's something both myself and the deputy secretary talk about in our public speaking. but i think also we have to be looking at innovation. new and different ways of providing less extensive
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housing still quality in nature. just looking at ways of producing things through computer models and two-dimensional laws, some of the things are really quite exciting. in our innovation department, >> are they, doctor carson, are they looking at what we would have calledmanufactured housing? i'd like dramatically what i'm trying . >> but modular housing? >> the time has expired and the chairman recognizes georgia, mister loudermilk. >> thank you mister chairman, i appreciate the opportunity. doctor carson, thank you for the opportunity for being
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with us and thank you for your leadership and the new ideology you are bringing it to this organization, especially with the fiscal responsibility that you have spoken eloquently about, the fact is that we are not fiscally responsible at some point the money runs out and there is nothing to help anyone with and i appreciate that. i also appreciate you recognizing the importance of operating the powers of federal government and the state government regarding the mccarran which you spoke about earlier. i do have an area of concern has arisen recently, especially with the city of atlanta. treo is a provider that provides for lack of a better term lease to own type of mortgage with those who are on the cost of, they can't quite get a traditional mortgage they help these families to go into a lease agreement that would end up
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with a traditional mortgage. and the city of atlanta's finance authority formed an interagency home finance corporation which qualifies as an instrument of government under hud's definition. they've been participating as an fha insured bar. seven national mortgage lenders are participating and another on the board in the on boardingprocess . additionally, west is a national mortgage lender with offices and ownership in georgia and they been participating 2008 . this issue was brought to us by some of those organizations and the city of about 828, fha removed reporting from the roster without any prior notice. the result of that has left dozens of families in my district and around the city
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of atlanta in limbo pending hud review and some already lost the financing on their homes and the opportunity to use this program so really my question, were you aware of this happening and is this something you could look into to help us rectify on a timely basis? >> i heard about this earlier this week and it is concerning. i want to find out the rest of the details. we have a group of people looking into that right now. i expect a resolution sooner rather than later. >> i appreciate that and as you have stated so often, we do care. to make sure that everyone has the ability to have have a quality home, especially those that can't quite get there but what we can do to help especially through the private sector so i appreciate you working with us you again, we are getting the information on it and i
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appreciate your staffworking with that and with that i will yield the remainder of my time . >> we now recognize the gentlemanfrom minnesota mister ellison . >> open to the committee doctor carson. i a detroit man two and i've been for the last 30 years but my high school and grade school is right there in the city of detroit . anyway, the secretary, i will admit that when you became hud secretary, i met with people in my community i worked with in housing. because of their politics, not all of you were excited about you becoming chairman but we agreed that we would invite you to our district to talk with you about your ideas and share with you hours. so i wrote you a letter on i believe march 22 inviting you to come and it didn't get response so i will you another letter on july 6 and
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got no response so we sent you an email and in email, your assistant said you didn't get the mail and i apologize for that but said they don't have travel plans booked for minnesota. i want to offer an invitation to minnesota and tell you i will guarantee that you will be treated with respect even if people have very different opinions then you hold. >> will you come? >> i appreciate, you will invite in the summertime, right? >> i'm thinking more like fallbut it will still be nice. michigan weather, basically . five points on the bull's-eye. >> what i appreciate about yourinvitation was you said you will be treated with respect . >> i guarantee it . >> ithink that's how we make progress . >> what you think, will you come?
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>> i would not be disinclined. >> i want you to know that we believe that no matter, we want to work with the secretary no matter who it is and we were are looking for ways to help these housing a better set of terms for them. but the theory of affordable housing crisis and the community inminneapolis and in all of our state of minnesota , it just won't do to not be in conversation with the secretary, regardless of our philosophy versus yours. >> exactly. >> so i'm for the whole world i've asked you, and i think you're saying we will think about it? >> we will put it on the list. >> when i hear other members saying you visit their district, i'm thinking we are nice people in minnesota too. we'd love to see the secretary. their predecessor william castro came three times and
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he can assure you that we are serious about working on housing and be the focus. >> he came three times. you shot? anyway, i will say that i was a little surprised and i'm not good way when it appeared as though the hud mission statement removed the phrase inclusive and sustainable communities. >>. >> is going to be the final mission statement under your secretary ship? >> you probably work here when i adjusted that earlier. it's a three-part process. first part, we put way to shorten the statement so people can remember. part, was a broader exposure
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to the entire leadership community and the third iteration was everybody on including the field and we are in the process of all that. and then the final statement will come out. >> this wasn't even close to the final but people saw it as an opportunity. >> we have limited time. the world your commitment to making sure that anti-discrimination in housing will be a part of the mission statement under your leadership? >> when we get feedbackfrom all our people , that will be what it's going to be. and it includes that, absolutely . >> let me also say that i am, i'm not more, i'm a lot concern that you indefinitely alter the implementation of hud's fair housing rule, mandated under the fair housing act.
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i think that given, have you heard of a podcast called reveal for the center for investigative reporting? if you haven't, i'd like to send you. we have a serious housing discrimination problem in our country and i you will address. >> the gentleman has expired. >> pursuant to clause before a committee will three i request that a man from minnesota be recognize for an additional five minutes. >>. >> pursuant to clause before a committee rule three the gentleman from minnesota will be allotted an additional five minutes at the conclusion of his time to members of the republican side will be recognized. the gentleman from minnesota is recognized for an additional minute i would yield time to the numbers are committed.
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>> let me start just by saying there is something we can agree on and thank you for your statement that we are in a very dangerous waste now and we can only but before from inside. that is very true and i think the president has put us in a dangerous place in his report. i will the question as to my colleague the same question about the anti- discrimination clause. but let me just ask you this, when we look at your work requirements, one of my colleagues said that was trickling going from $15 to 150 and we look at going from 30 percent of the adjusted income to 35 percent growth, you said affect many people, can you qualify that defining numbers, what not many people because there's a chart and i recognize that behind you. that has some very alarming numbers to me.
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>> what's your number when you say not many? >> i was talking about the minimum to 100. that would be less than 10 percent of the people. >> 10 percent of what number? >> people who supported housing. >> only people is that. >> 4.7 million. >> so we you said 10 percent of that. >> i said less than 10 percent. >> nine percent or eight percent, not going to hold you to it. anytime it's the least of us but let me ask you this. how we help them if the waivers, if established program because what i do know. years of being a consultant for hud, what i know is many not all all all the people, they want to work. they want to use terms in
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housing sufficient. often times go from a public housing to section 8, what will you and your team do to help them on the job. is there a program that will move them to employment? how much time will they get? so can you talk to the nation and give me the confidence that there will be location, people leave here and they don't get a job in the they are well educated so how does this work? >> as you may or may not have noticed , there's a tremendous incident now on section 3 which ispart of the fair housing act . it requires that if you're receiving money that you hire the low income people in that
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area or train them or give them contracts. people have foundlots of ways to get out of that. we're in the process of closing those loopholes . >> can you give me one example because you are right, i'm very familiar with and it's on the books and as you said, it's not working so tell me what and how you're going to make a difference and nobody else has done. >> we put together a task force specifically on section 3. we had a big national meeting in texas the week before last, people coming from all over the country various dha's learn about the new things that have been done in thatarena in order to increase the program and in addition .>> i don't want to interrupt youbut because of the clock, not being disrespectful . as for meeting, i can tell you i know the other directors of the task force. i've been to meetings, they have. that's not tangible and the only reason this is important to me is people are calling us and saying and i going to be effective?
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i'm not going to be homeless? what happens if this doesn't happen? we also know that if you look at this whole state in america with the person earning the minimum wage to afford a two-bedroom apartment at market rates, in my state i can tell you they have to make $17.50. if you have to there, they would have to be making more than our minimum wage to get there. that's not realistic so i guess i need more tangible or info. if you have that, you can send them to me. >> we need a lot of time to talk about that. >> will you make a commitment you will have someone on your team so that i don't feel disrespected because my colleague sent you three letters that you didn't answer him and let me end loading the bible . god will pay each person according to the work they do . >> the time of the gentleman
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from minnesota has expired but you are now recognized, the gentleman from california mister royce, chairman of the house human affairs committee . >> i appreciate this hearing today. i appreciate secretary carson being with us and mister secretary, as you know we seen a large uptake in the number of non-bank mortgage origination. i was reading in the paper about this yesterday and they were half of the market in 2016, three quarters of the mortgages issued by the fha or va and the rise in ginny may non-bank share has continued to climb in 2018 so we look at the data from the urban institute that puts that number 79percent . what do you think the main causes of this market shift have been and are you concerned by the shift?
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>> i am concerned about it. i think a lot of it has to do with claims not being met and some of the deposit bags are concerned about being severely penalized for immaterial mistakes . we are addressing that along with the department of justice. it's a significant concern. >> another aspect of this i think we've got to think on is that i volume non-bank lenders played a pretty serious role in the financial crisis and in many cases they were the first to fail under liquidity pressures but when the well runs dry, we think that countrywide and america west and through the century, those were quick to fall basically like a house of cards so while many non-bank originators in the market are using more sophisticated tools, and do some hold
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increased capital, the majority continue to be vulnerable to liquidity pressures and servicing activities. and so right now you've got a situation where times are good. low interest rates, streamlined programs be fha and everybody's open for securitization, and the right lines of credit are quite plentiful but there's no guarantee this is going to last and i was hit by the testimony by the president of ginny may that we have depended on share price. that the economy does not fall into recession and increased mortgage delinquencies. lots of our bankers remain able to tax their lines of credit and lots of the applicable lines full of the cracks of the worry is that do these non-bank lenders
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have the resources to withstand a real life stress test, that we have the kind of stress test we had? if that reoccurs and we've moved so much into this sector, so that'swhat i was concerned about . >> i think stress testing should be done. i was talking to some of the people at ginnie mae about recently. it's a concern. >> what about on the government many ways, fha appears poorly prepared to oversee these non-bank because of their outdatedtechnology in risk-management systems . secretary carson, are you comfortable with the risk management and technology at fha today to do that or are you looking to improve it?
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>> the technology needs to be drastically updated. we have a new feed that we are seeking for single-family which will help with some of the updating. we recently got a grant also to help with it but we are still woefully behind. i can't emphasize strongly enough to all appropriations members that we have to do this before a disaster occurs. >> thank you secretary carson. i concur and i kneeled back. >> when you yield to the chairman? >> ..
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>> i would not be opposed to that. >> thank you. the time has expired and that the chair wishes to announce that we expect to excuse the witness at 1:00 o'clock in the vote on the floor are expected shortly thereafter. the chair characterizes the gentleman from minnesota. >> thank you, mr. chair. thank you mr. secretary for being here today. wanted to follow the terms question just now and i think it was representatives that touched on this it stuff before representative royce -- i have
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not heard and if you already said it, i apologize, but everyone is raising this as an issue and asking you to confirm that the it systems are behind an outdated and in some cases 40 years old. i don't know that i've heard you describe what efforts you are undertaking internally to address the problem when you talk about the appropriations that is great but what is that you are doing in the agency and is there a strategy or approach and could you fill us in if there is? >> yeah, unfortunately we are spending about $250 million patching up the various networks that we have. we are in the process of transitioning cloud -based system and that has been going on for about the last eight months or so. it really needs a much bigger overhaul than that. right now were doing a pet. >> have you prioritized which is
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systems need to be addressed first and you have a priority list mark or is it all of the above? >> i would have to say much across the board. we don't have anything that is highly modernized. >> all right. let's move on. i've been encouraged to see him focus in reviewing and reevaluating federal regulations under this administration. in january had announced that it would be conducting a quote, wholesale review of its manufactured housing rules as part of a, broader effort to identify the galatians that might be ineffective, overly burdensome or excessively costly given the critical need for affordable housing. the public comment period for review ended at the end of
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february can you shed light to the committee on your plans to reform hud's regulation of manufactured housing. >> should be coming up with new rules and with a significantly call down group of regulations before the end of this year. >> that would be the timeline is by the end of 18? >> yes. >> what can you do if possible to expedite the review and make the necessary changes as soon as possible? even my colleague from minnesota inviting you and manufactured housing which seems to be one of the solutions. >> continue to group to move even faster. hopefully, it will be considerably before the end of
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the year. >> as part of the administration's recently released reorganization plan which i know you are also asked a couple questions about their been called to move the usda loan and assistance program to become part of god. it appears that the rural community development programs and how the administrations perform plan proposal to move some of the usda housing programs while leaving other housing programs benefit our rural communities? >> first of all, these are very high-level initial thoughts that are coming out. there has not been substantial organization of government for almost 100 years. the attempt is to like things under the same roof to try to cut down on some of the duplication. in terms of rural housing hud already does more than usda does. so, that is not a difficult move at all and the usda agrees and they said please, take it. no problem.
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that is the rational find it. >> you believe that a streamlined or the people report you believe it will streamline process within hud it will be beneficial to rural communities? >> absolutely. >> thank you, mr. secretary. i you back. >> mr. secretary, thank you for taking the time to visit with us. let me preface my remarks. mr. ellison talked about the housing situation in the minneapolis area where affordable housing is becoming hard to find. in colorado in my district i represent the denver metropolitan area and we've enjoyed a good economy for five or six years runnin running to e point where my district i've been under 3% on appointment for at least five years now. very strong but as a consequence
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we have seen a lot of congestion in our highways so in a production issue and housing particularly for the disabled, elderly, the low to moderate income has really become hard to find. my question to you is what will you do about it. >> first of all, i should congratulate you but i've been to the denver housing authority and seen incredible things that are going on there so it's quite impressive and some of the things that are be done for the veterans there also. very, very impressive. we continue to work with the different localities and the concept of public private partnerships because that is what has been so successful in your area and the more we can spread that the faster we can create the housing you're talking about. >> thank you. one of the things i'm concerned
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about is what i see the continued pairing of the housing line items or the elderly, disabled, low to moderate income in your budget in the hud budget and i'm looking at 16, 17, 18 and a proposed budget for 19. you know, i know earlier answer to the questions because can't afford to do that and to do more. do you really believe that? >> i don't believe i said we cannot do more but i said we have to be fiscally responsible. >> i agree with you one 100%. now we will do math. if you're a super scholar and i will help you because i've already done the math. let's talk about what the gao says the cost of the federal budget will be of the tax cuts
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that were just past. we will take the low end of the loss of revenue and that is $1.5 trillion, $1,500,000,000,000. $1.5 trillion is -- what is the budget and the overall budget for hud for last year, this year and next year but what was your 17 budget? >> seventeen budget without dr was about 42. >> and next year what is the proposed budget? >> it will be in the same general region. >> now it is drill down a little deeper and you remember what the line item is for elderly
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housing? >> let me help you. at least for 18 it was about 600 or $66 million or up to -- it had been up at 721 billion and cut a little more but for argument sake let's say $700 million. >> but ended up substantially more than that. >> but it had been cut. >> right. >> and you know what persons with disability what that line item is i will tell you. it's at least in your budget it was $125 million. to have any idea for how many years you can have -- what say it's $1 million in elderly, disabled and other subsidies for housing and it's a billion dollars and will make the math easy. how could you provide these programs from people for these
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tax cuts? >> you're preaching to the choir. i spent a lot of time going up and arguing for the elderly and disabled. >> that is the real problem here. make a tax cut that goes to big corporations and the wealthiest americans and some of the most vulnerable people are going to be hurt by this and it is your job to make sure they are not. are you back. >> time the gentleman has expired and the chair wishes to inform members and expect a clear members in the queue prior to dismissing the witness and the chair now recognize as the gentleman from maine. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. mr. carson, always good to see you and thank you for your service to the country. about one year ago this committee passed a sweeping package of regulatory reforms called the choice act and the center watered it down and they came back with a final product
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called 155 and supportive of -- however, we have a problem in that bill and the build to stop the humble practice of loan turning which targeted recipients of it be a loans and the technical change in the polling requirements which were dealing with this anti- turning provision cause disruptions in the market for refinance be eight loads. the question to you is you and your staff commit to working towards a solution to this problem because these loans met all the requirements that was set forth in the requirements. we work with us on that? >> as you know, we've done that a lot in the area of va loans turning and will continue to do
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so. absolutely. >> i like to turn to another issue if i may, mr. carson. you have a compelling life story and there are three parts of your life story that due in a unique position to deal with issues that affect many americans. you escaped poverty, he lived in public housing, you are a position. this is just the american dream and there so many of us that so admire you for having done that and you are in a position because of your position to professionally and otherwise help so many americans. for three years i worked very hard to help include work requirements for those receiving food assistance in this country. those requirements are embedded in our farm belt we passed last week. i happen to believe and i know
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you do to that the role of government is to help people escape poverty. it is not to help them become comfortable in poverty. there is nothing like employment to help people lift themselves up the way you did in your own life. in this food stamp program where work requirements are now attached and it's on its way to the senate there was no cut to the food stamp program and there's exemptions if you're pregnant or young kids at home or elderly parents and if you have any disabilities at all we are just saying if you get a job at least the hours a week or if you can't find a job which is highly unreasonable today will make you get job training so you can get a job and if that doesn't work will ask you to do community service so we can better your life. isn't that a good idea? if so, mr. carson, what are you doing at hud to folks escaping
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poverty? >> thank you for asking that question. it is so important and that is what real compassion is about. it's getting people out of poverty nothing you will take care of everybody. what we are doing -- that is the whole concept behind our john section three because there are 6 million skilled jobs are country that are going empty right now and that is the concept behind the invision centers weeping resources and juxtaposition with the need because both have discovered in this country is there are a lot of goodhearted people really would love to but they don't have a maximum mechanism for doing so. that would be a big part of it. then also creating holistic
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communities, a community that are nurturing, not dangerous places but that have clinics so that people will get their primary care in the clinic and not in emergency room because five times as much but doing something that is going to be nurturing and as they grow. >> thank you. my remaining time we have a whole epidemic and it has hit really hard. i know are doing a good pilot program using section eight so people can get care after early education, aftertreatment, post detox treatment, recovery and now they are going to use section eight to get into causing where it is safe away from bad actors and get the counseling they need. >> time for the gentleman has expired. mr. sherman is now recognized. >> thank you for being here, mr. secretary.
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people in my district face high housing costs in the greater los angeles area and they long for that time where they can own a home. the fha is what they rely on and there has been discussions at the fha to lower the total amount you can get on a mortgage what is sometimes called the loan limit and basically make that program unavailable to people in the san fernando valley. please tell me this is not going to happen that you will at least keep the loan limit where it is. >> as you know there's a formula for determining the high and the low level limit. the good news for you is those loan limits are set by congress and not by hud. >> can i count on you to guide
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congress to at least keep the low limits for they are smart. >> i have no problem working with you on where the loan limits should be. >> i will take that as a yes and go on. there has been a source of confusion for lenders with regard to the eligibility of various down payment assistance programs particularly those that involve premium pricing. can we count on hud to issue more detailed guidance so that lenders can understand what programs and what practices are permissible and what aren't. >> thank you for asking the question because it's very important. some of the loan down payment programs have been a disaster and have led to a lot of defaults. others have not and been able to
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decipher which ones are which and make those recommendations are important and we are happy to do that. >> will be studying this and determining what the rules are to be and issuing the kind of clear guidance so that people will know what is kosher and what isn't? >> very much so. >> will accord to that in any idea what the timeframe would be? >> i will have to consult the group that is working on that. >> we will make that the question for the record and i will ask for and expose it time there. there has been a proposal released by the white house to restructure the federal government and part of that moves the community development block grants from your agency to
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the department of commerce and i have been there for a long time and i have grown bald in the service of my country and to paraphrase president washington, i have seen people move boxes around at great expense and delay in confusion and nothing actually gets any better. can you see any particular -- what is your view on moving cdbg from the department to commerce and what would be the plan to make things better? >> back when you pair and this was brought up before you, as you remember your. it is a high-level proposal and there is honestly going to be a lot of back-and-forth it is unclear where the dust will
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settle on that one. >> but, you know, i've heard arguments in favor of cdbg and a few arguments against the it's a good grim but is there anything your department is doing wrong in running this program that would somehow be corrective if we moved to the commerce? >> i can tell you right now are looking at that in terms of how it can be reformatted in such a way that some of the abuses that have occurred in the past will not occur any longer than that will happen whether it stays at hud or goes to commerce. >> i would strongly recommend conferring with members of congress as to how much money is spent in their district and i'm sorry i was not here at the beginning of her testimony but i was out visiting immigrant children who had been separated from their parents and i yield
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back. >> the time has expired. the gentleman from west virginia is not recognized. >> thank you. mr. secretary, thank you for coming to west virginia and during the drug rehab housing and seeing what we're doing on the ground. i want to remind you a couple of things are brought up the time. in one of the recovery centers was all-female and they are not wanting to live near men because men have been abusing them in many cases they want single sex housing available to them and is effective and there were some hud was getting in the way. if you could continue to address that i would appreciate it. you mentioned your mandate of touching people [inaudible] what is not mentioned in the hud mandate is looking at crime data and i want to get out of what you're doing and i read a new
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york times article from march 2018 detailing some of the leaf you provided to cities and dimensions us very out in houston that are wrongly targeted under obama and using crime statistics to keep child musters out of neighborhoods with little children and that was discovered story but it's outside hud's mission and i want to applaud your continued efforts there to bring fairness to the cities around the country that are attempting to have housing in ways that are appropriate. i know there are more in the queue and i don't want to take all the time but if you have more comments -- >> you said the keyword which is fairness. in everything that we look at we need to take everybody's interview and what works for them and what we have started doing as a society is taking a group and their rights trump
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everybody else's. that is not the way america was designed and we have a duty to make sure we don't down that pathway. >> thank you. >> i'm happy to yield my time. >> i think my friend from west virginia. it's great to see you and great to see your ability to stay with us. thank you for coming to arkansas. [inaudible] one building we looked at was built in 1937 and i'm glad we rushed to get it fixed so thank you for that. >> it was very impressive some of the things that were going on there. >> i want to talk about the invision centers and it's a good initiative of hud and you toward our house in little rock which i think could be a model for managing the vision centers and is it your vision about an vision that the nonprofit sector could be take the lead in providing those services to public housing?
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>> absolutely. it's important that they do take the lead in doing it. we want the ownership and the direction to be locally based. we intentionally designed programs since you were not have a bunch of bureaucrats in washington trying to run it in that way it's not altered when administrations switch. >> mr. hacker was talking about housing authority one of the best things i've noticed about housing portability is the incomes are up in our economy and some people have derided the president's tax cuts act as crumbs or rate that the economy is doing better but in my district the typical fha loan is about $119,000 so if you look at the interest cost of that, $2000 benefit to a family is like three monthly payments. it's 50% of a document for an
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fha loan and more than covers the insurance for the whole family for more than a year on health of that size. i hate the derision about the success of letting families keep more of their income but it will help us boost housing affordability across the country and get more families into housing. do you share that view? >> absolutely. as the saying goes, a rising tide floats all votes. anything to increase the economy increases opportunities for people that solves a lot of problems. >> i know in some districts arkansas is affordable and we encourage all people to live and work in arkansas where housing is affordable in certain places i hope you will speak out against excessive cost recovery cost, development cost the drive up the cost a unit like in
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southern california. >> that is one of the big issues and there's the zoning restrictions and regulatory cost that has driven things out of sight. what you'll be doing with fh is to relax for those. >> that now recognizes mr. cri crist. >> thank you. thank you for being here today. i look forward to discussing several concerns i have with hud on june 7 i will you a letter along with the entire democratic delegation from florida about how your proposed rent hikes on the poorest indians would affect 1.7 million americans including 1 million children. i appreciate that since then you have decided to not put that plan into effect. however, even without complete runs the moral compass of the making affordable housing work could use a recalibration
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specifically the plants illuminate deductions for medical expenses and childcare. it will target poor, single parents who spend a disproportionate share of their limited income on the basic needs of their children. a single parent keeps on it does work of people and we should be offering them a hand up not slapping them on the wrist with a steep rent hike. i am still awaiting a response to the letter and while i am i to ask unanimous consent insert the letter into the record. >> without objection. >> thank you. in the interim, maybe you could shed light for me after the republican majority the $1.8 trillion tax bill and 80% of which went to the top 1% in our country and america's credit card how do you justify taxing the poor, single mothers by hiking the rent? >> first of all, this is an initial start of the initial
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conversation but it's a conversation that has been had with congress and all of these things will obviously be approved by congress and we will have that discussion and during that discussion i think what you'll discover is that in terms of the medical deductions that primarily affects the elderly people that we are protecting so they are not going to see rent increases for six years. as far as the childcare deductions are concerned as you know the new tax cut bill there is a substantial augmentation of the child deduction credit. those things are addressed in that sense but the thing that is also missed is in those were cases where, in fact, those are not adequate will be using
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waivers. >> thank you i like two years because there's a lot i would like to get to hear but i don't have much time nearly one third of gender americans have experienced homelessness in their lives and according to the 15 us transgender survey over one fourth of those experience homelessness don't bother going to shudder because they fear mistreatment. too often there but in 70% of those who stayed in homeless shelters and mistreatment due to their gender, including 13% who were turned away or kicked out simply because of who they are. i will leave this chapter on the trans homelessness and shutter acts with you to clear up any misconceptions that you might have with the community. i ask unanimous consent to insert the 15 us transgender survey into the record. >> without objection thank you
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for it because it is your job and all the jobs to protect and care for the vulnerable want you to know specifically and i like to know what you're doing to protect the a dbt homeless population as a relates to the shelter. >> we feel that all of our citizens should be treated fairly and we need to make sure that we consider the feelings of everybody including people feel their gender is different than their biology would indicate. the process of doing that we must also consider the rights and feelings of others may not be comfortable in a situation where people physically are different from them claim to be there same gender. what i suggest is that the shelters utilize ways in working
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with people they are that everyone can find comfort and that may be different for different places. >> thank you very much. i your back. >> the time has expired. the fact that the votes have not yet been called on the floor and with consultation with the secretary office i want to ask unanimous consent of the next three speakers be mechanized for 20 half minutes and then we will dismiss the witness without objection and the gentle lady from utah is recognized for two and half minutes. >> thank you for that. >> two and half minutes left back hopefully i will be able to get you out to utah for more than two and half minutes we are excited to have you come out to the state of utah. thank you for being here today
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and had a couple of teachers that came to washington recently and they sell you from a distance and i thought well of you and i wanted to tell you that it i wanted -- i always believe that people should be treated like assets to be utilized not liabilities and we can do that here to make sure that we are helping some of our potential that we have in this country and i know you're not familiar with some of the rams we have in utah and it's the life start village center i want to give you background because it's important one of the places i like you to visit. what they do is take single mothers, many of which have substance abuse or abusive relationships and they are brought into a group home almost an apartment where it is clean but they learn how to clean and they learn how to cook and learn
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how to -- there are socializing they go on and they get themselves out of debt and then they graduate after they are gone through certain stages they were graduate into a town hall with a have my response ability and the a little more and then they go on to a duplex they have yardwork and learn how to do yard work and they have a response ability single home for they pay the majority of it. in essence, the spam takes him literally from homelessness to ownership. it teaches them some great basic skills they have lost a lot of their had funding because of the way they are set up in the requirement that they have to get clean but what this does is they are able to see and there in a complex and able to see the graduating process and if them into that wanting to succeed and wanting to be in the single-family home so i had questions for you on that and i
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think those are the type of programs that we should be ready. programs that literally where we judge our success on not how many people with into programs but how many were able to get out to become contributing members to society. want to tell you that i really like you to come out and make sure that you are able to see that. >> i like to see that. >> the time has expired and the china organizes the gentleman from tennessee for two and half minutes. >> thank you for being here and for your service to our nation. as it relates to community block grants as i understand there are two formulas and there's a formula a in a formula be to determine the allocation of grants to trinity in the way i understand formula a it allocates funds to community based on its metropolitan share of population, of poverty, overcrowding and it allocates funds based on the metropolitan
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share of poverty, but the 1940s housing and my question to you is i don't know how familiar you are -- >> i am familiar. >> is it time to update how the stimulus are calculated or targeted funds the community development needs and if the answer is yes you have an idea of how to update the calculations of the formulas. >> i have asked our people to evaluate every aspect of the program because it is and i are need of updating. we need to the right kinds of controls in it and that is being done and it will take a while because it's a big and complex problem but the process has
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started. >> i just heard you say that it will take it while it would you guess as to how long it might take and what the horizon may be smart. >> we would be talking months and not years. >> thank you very much but you back the balance of the time. >> the gentleman your back and the chair now organizes the gentle lady from new york who will be the last member recognized before we adjourn. >> thank you thank you, mr. carson. you are not only are you and your life's work and national treasure but wildly popular and a very well respected in my region and will be completely honored to have you visit and see the unique issues have in our area so i will try to hit three quickly not sure if you're aware but it's a state issue and i'm wondering if hud could help -- it's an issue known as a special one-time assistance program in new york city where
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new york city mayor is sending people from new york city up to regions including my district where these people are getting public assistance for a year and getting housing subsidies and using a public assistance and is where the obvious, communities are much more and have much less resources and it is interesting that our socialist mayor from your city thanks the need to vote our district were happy to provide humanitarian and have less resources the new york city. is there anything hud can do or you can do to help us navigate bent this from happening? >> i just heard about this yesterday. absolutely. it doesn't sound right and we will look into it. >> thank you for the next big one is the community element block grants and the disaster relief program and i know you've answered the questions on that but is there anything we can do in my flood ravaged region, oddly enough and locked, but
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with rivers and streams and problems with flooding is there anything we can do lie on hud for that side where we can find relief and efficiencies that will help my region deal with the flooding issues? >> i had not heard a lot of flooding in your region but obviously if it is existing, absolutely. >> oddly enough we are you the elect area but we have a lot of flooding. i wanted to talk about the federal housing and ministration, fha and some of the competitive advantages they have over a lending space and wondering if there's anything wf and security with an fha loan that we need but also to not crowd out private lenders in the area so i can be a part of this question and is that something that hud will consider? >> we've always liked the idea of bringing private capital into both the primary and secondary
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market. >> thank you so much. >> the time has expired. >> asking emma's consent to insert into the record a petition that have been compiled by the ranking member. >> without objection. >> how like to think the witness for his testimony today and without objection all members will have five legislate of days within which to submit additional written questions for the witness to the chair. it will be forwarded to the witness for his response. mr. secretary, ask you to respond as promptly as you are able. this hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] >> next, live, your calls and comments on "washington journal ." with "newsmakers" congressman adam smith. after that, the house hearing on the clinton female probe with
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christopher wray and rod rosenstein -- the clinton email probe with christopher wray and rod rosenstein. mona charen talks about her book. >> we sent such confusing messages to young people. young women -- i do not envy them. this was a story i put in the book about a number of women athletes who have posed topless or semi-topless for "sports illustrated." ie of them i quoted you said am proud of my body and i want to help young women who may have body image issues. my feeling is that is a crock. women should be dignified. they should remember that when you disrobe, it is hard for people to take you seriously. a lo


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