and the polynesian voyaging society. and then, three short documentaries about hawaii. film "theilent hawaiian islands" and the film "long jeans cronoscope." on c-span, book tv, and american history tv. listen to hawaii weekend on the free radio app where we feature honolulu's mayor. saturday, at 10 a.m. eastern. >> next, c-span is in montana where democratic u.s. senator jon tester debates his republican challenger matt rosendale. this is just under one hour. c-span, your primary source for campaign 2018.

>> good evening and welcome to montana pbs at debate night, the race for the u.s. senate. >> we would also like to welcome our viewers joining us on c-span and listeners on montana public radio and yellowstone public radio. >> we have a slightly different format tonight, it is candidate

will have an additional 90 seconds to answer the question and then there will be an open discussion with chance for rebuttals or follow-up questions. we will finish the debate with a closing statement from each candidate. let's get started with the event that has gripped our nation, the supreme court justice confirmation process. you have both spoken publicly about this being the most important vote that a united states -- united states senator can take on. let's use this current confirmation process as an example in addition to reiterating how you would vote or how you are voting. we would like to hear what informs your decision. what are the important factors in a decision like this? based on the coin toss, we will begin with senator tester. sen. tester: thank you, i want to thank montana public television, montana public radio for hosting this debate. i want to thank commissioner rosendale for showing up. confirmation of a supreme court, cabinet officials, confirmation overall is one of the most important jobs a senator has to do.

i found out that he was one of the architects behind the mass surveillance program from the federal level. i found out that he backed and supported the patriot act. both of those i believe are in direct violation of the fourth amendment. i found out he supported dark money coming into campaigns. as anybody knows who watches tv these days, there is more dark money coming into campaigns than there should be. he also felt like it was not a person's right to choose their health care, but it was the government's right. for those reasons, and all the reasons that were brought up last week, i made a decision yesterday to vote no on judge kavanaugh. i don't think he has the merits nor the background to meet the needs of the supreme court.

i certainly don't think he understands the challenges we have here in montana from a fourth amendment privacy standpoint. mr. rosendale: first of all i would like to say i am absolutely disgusted right away this entire process was handled. here we have a woman, dr. ford, who clearly experience some and tragedy many years ago. then we have a judge, a commendable man, and honorable man who has asked -- has served extremely well. he was smeared as well as. what disturbs me is this could have been avoided. we have dianne feinstein who withheld information for 60 days that this could have been conducted in a fashion that they could have gathered information, the democratic party could have gathered information, they could have kept her identity a secret.

that could have done a lot of this research, but they did not. the democratic party, the washington democrats made a decision 60 days ago that they were going to obstruct this process. jon gave us his word nearly three months ago that he was going to take the time to meet with judge kavanaugh and he didn't. he put off the meetings, at one point he came out and said that washington, the white house canceled your meeting and had to retract that statement. myself and a lot of the people closest to me are very disturbed with the way this process was handled. there is a man who has a commendable record, 300 decisions that he has written and he should be serving on the bench and absolutely, i would vote for him. >> we are now to the part of the format or we will have open discussion. i assume both of you have

something that you want to follow up with so we will continue with alternating and particularly in this session we will start with you senator. sen. tester: when he was nominated i did the background work on him. the difference between myself and commissioner rosendale is it was a day or two later after he was nominated that commissioner rosendale said he was going to vote for him. this is an important job. we need to go find out the information. this is exactly what i did. as far as the meetings with judge kavanaugh, i ticket is important to note that during my time in the senate, whether it was as a cabinet official or supreme court nomination, i had always had the opportunity to meet with him. we put forward several days to the white house and they could not make it work. i don't hold the white house accountable for that. we put dates after dates, to do that.

it did not happen. i would have hoped that it would have, it would a given me the opportunity to look judge kavanaugh in the eye and asked him the questions about the fourth amendment, about the belief that dark money is ok in campaigns, and about a person's right to choose their health care. it did not happen. i had to go off the information that i investigated and determined that he was not a good candidate for the supreme court. mr. rosendale: it is amazing that something is so critically important as a job for the united states senate to confirm a supreme court justice that the time could not be found. senator heitkamp found the time, there is lots of democrats that found the time to give it judge kavanaugh the courtesy of a meeting. we just don't have the fact that the meeting never took place. we have is the fact that jon tester came out and said the white house cancel

it is flat-out false. what is very disturbing to me is that the democrats have played this resistance plan and they came out and publicly said -- the washington democrats said that they do not want to see this judge. they want to push this off, they want to delay. they are hoping that they can possibly maintain some kind of a majority in the united states senate after the midterm elections so they would have more control over who gets seated there. it is very disturbing to myself and many people across the nation. sen. tester: i put forward the dates, the dates did not work for the white house, i cannot help that. i met with every single person that i wanted to meet with. i wanted to meet with this guy. this is an important race. or rosendale to say what he says

is absolutely ridiculous. it is patently false. you are really good at speaking east coast talking points. even the president said that this person was compelling. i think that quite frankly if you combine the fourth amendment and his disregard for it with the dark money which is paying for 80% of his ads, and if you combine the fact that you think is the government's decision, not a person's decision to make health care decisions, in no vote was obvious. >> mr. rosendale we will give you the final word. mr. rosendale: jon tester may not like what i say but it is the truth. >> thank you both for the initial thoughts. we will move forward to another topic that has a great importance to montana, that is public land. >> montana has 27 million acres of public land and the outdoor industry adds an estimated 7 billion in spending to the state's economy annually. a key program, to purchase public land is sent to inspire -- expire if congress does not work to reauthorize and fund it.

do you believe montana and the nation has enough public land or do you think we should acquire more and how should the plans be manage. this question goes first to mr. rosendale. mr. rosendale: i think the fund should be made permanent. i think it is critically important that the fund was earmarked to be used for recreational purposes, hunting and fishing. i think they need to be made permanent because that is the only way anybody can make any kind of long-term plan. i served on the land board, i recognize that public land and access to those lands is critically important for everyone across the state. there was a time when i thought they could be better managed by the state. we have about 35% of our state's federal public lands. i have talked to people across the state and they have made exceedingly clear that they do not want those lands transferred. i not only understand that, but i agree with that.

i think we have a role in making sure that they are managed properly. while i have been serving on the land board, we have increased access to public lands. we increase access to 45,000 acres of public lands that prior to were not even accessible. we expanded access to public access, again prior to they were not accessible. we showed that we know how to manage those lands properly. we harvested 47 million timbers from these lands. other areas are environmentally sensitive and cannot support heavy traffic from motorized vehicles like a walking trail system that we established and there is thousands of acres that we have reserved to make sure they are protected for this walking trail system. this land board that i have been serving on is responsible for the largest land purchase that

the montana land board has ever made. that was just this past year. we do understand that these lands are critically important and certainly we are trying to make sure that the public has access to them. sen. tester: the premise to your question is absolutely correct. over 70,000 jobs, by the way it is what makes montana the greatest state in the country in the world. the public lands to go hunting and fishing and biking. the land water conservation fund the number one tool for conservation that we have. i have fought over my tenure in the senate to make sure that program is not only permanently authorized but fully funded at 900 million dollars year. a lot of folks stand up and say they would like to see it authorized. where the rubber meets the road is in the funding. i have been a leader on it, it

is one of the reasons i was asked to be on a call just last week to talk to an actual --hing national reporters national reporters about how important the fund was. let's look at commissioner rosendale's real record. a few short years ago he said turn them over to the state, get rid of them. federal government should not have their hands in it. a guy from maryland would think that. he doesn't understand how important those public lands are. they don't have any public lands in maryland. we do in montana. it is an incredible economic driver. let's look at his record on the land board. southwest montana had the opportunity land for hunters, instead it goes to development, he voted against it. southeastern montana, a significant piece of land, same thing, hunting, fishing, hunting, opportunities like no other state in the lower 48 have. he votes against it. it is critically important that montana has somebody in washington dc that will not just speak whatever he thinks will get him votes.

but will fight for montana values and fight for our public lands. >> thank you both. we are moving on to the open discussion portion of this current topic which is public lands. to keep the alternating going, we will let mr. rosendale start that section. mr. rosendale: the facts just don't prove what jon is stating over there. what we have shown is that we expanded access to 45,000 acres of public lands that the public did not have any access to. i was responsible for negotiating. i literally sat down with the the nrc and the parties to make sure that the transaction took place. it is the largest land purchase that the montana land board has ever made. the facts just don't prove what jon is trying to say over there. this is a part of the smear technique that have been using for some time. the people montana know that not only have i done that on the

land board but i literally gave 11 lakers to the city of great falls for a park, myself. on lands that were previously completely private. i gave it to the city and they put a playground out there for the children because there was so little open space out there for them to utilize. sen. tester: he converted the farm into houses which is what he does for a living. by the way, land water conservation fund is used for these parts. what you are saying is revisionist history. commissioner rosendale, you voted against the southwest montana land transfer. you voted against the southeastern montana land transfer. you're either for public lands or you are not. i think you were from the beginning when you set i don't -- said i don't think federal government should have public lands. if this is such a good idea, why

does your parties part of this platform say the federal government get rid of land. you are a leader in the party, you should have stopped it. why? because in your guts you don't believe the federal government should have federal land. mr. rosendale: again, the facts just don't prove it. jon was closing down 21,000 miles of forest service roads in montana. i have been providing access and the record shows it. >> any follow-up? sen. tester: all i have to say is the fact that i shut down 23,000 miles of road is false. i am not here to talk about that, i am here to talk about matt rosendale's record of public lands and it does not pass the smell test. my record you can talk to any of , the conservation groups, you can talk to the hunting groups out there, the fishing groups out there, the full to go out -- full who like to go out and use the lands, we thought for and got access and have been

able to do things. in whitefish for example, the list goes on and on. for him to say anything different than that is revisionist history. >> thank you both for additional thoughts on that important topic. we will move forward now and talk about the economy. >> the tax cuts and jobs act cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21%. the u.s. economy is seeing unemployment levels at the lowest in recent memory. wage growth remains a slow for most employees and rising inflation threatens to neutralize the increases. do you feel the tax cuts and jobs act has been good for america? why or why not? the first response comes from sen. tester:. sen. tester: i think simple find -- a simplifying the tax code is critically important. i don't think the tax bill that was crafted in the dark of night in the back room does either of those things.

i think there is an opportunity to get bipartisan support on a tax bill that simplifies the tax code and makes it more equitable. unfortunately, this tax bill gives most of the benefits to the richest of the rich. the biggest problem is what you said. taxing $1.9 trillion onto our kids at debt. we are getting a tax break when it should be the other way around. that is not acceptable. it puts us in a position where it puts medicare and social security at risk. and i say that because leadership in the house has already talk about methods to cut medicare or privatize it. by the way, commissioner rosendale think it goes far enough. -- it does not think it goes far enough. everybody wants a tax break. the bottom line is we do not do it on the backs of our kids. the debt is high enough, we need to reduce the debt and times that are good because we all

know for our family's sake, when times are bad you increase debt. when times are good you paid down. what we have done in the last year and a half is increased debt when the economy is doing much better than it was in 2008. mr. rosendale: the tax cut legislation was an incredible boom for our country. i spoke to an electrician right here not three weeks ago, he has acquired 10 full-time employees. that is in addition to what he had. i talked to an aviation firm in billings, that gentleman awarded 801,000 dollar bonuses -- 800 $1000 bonuses to each of his employees. we are seeing increased compensation. we see more jobs in manufacturing, that is critically important because not the wages at the jobs pay but

also helping national security. by bringing the manufacturing sector back to our country. it is critically important. the problem we have in washington is spending. the jobs act is estimating that we will generate about $3.4 trillion worth of revenue. we are hoping they will be accurate. the problem is that we are going to spend record amounts of revenue, that is $4.2 trillion. while john talks about being fiscally conservative and being concerned about the debt, since he has been in washington, he increased the debt ceiling 11 times. he stood here before you 12 years ago and talked about it was one of the most important issues that we faced. yet he still continues to increase the debt. >> we'll move on into the open discussion portion of our current topic on the economy and again to alternate back we will have senator tester start. sen. tester: that still continues to be one of the most important issues.

if we don't deal with in a commonsense way, we will be in big trouble. that is why support a balanced budget. that is why i voted against three of the five budgets i thought they spent too much. this last budget i supported, it helped rebuild the military. it helped do things like give money to counties for paying taxes and schools. it did things like make sure we have a secure border. the problem with the tax bill is this, even at $1.9 trillion is very liberal. the conservative think tanks put much higher than that. and we have an opportunity to reduce the debt, we should do that. we had an opportunity and we took it in the opposite direction. and so, i think it is really easy to talk about not spending any money. we have been at war for 17 years. the military had to be rebuilt.

they did dollars for different projects. this tax bill takes away a lot of that flexibility. mr. rosendale: jon stood here 12 years ago and made fiscal sanity one of the biggest issues of the campaign. he has raise the debt ceiling 11 times. the national debt has rose from a trillion dollars to over $21 -- $8 trillion to over $21 trillion. apparently he has not been looking too hard at it. there has to be somebody who is willing to go into office and go through the budget, line by line, and take a look and see where they can reduce spending. i did that. i reduced my operating costs by 23% last year. i refused to take a pay raise last year and was the only elected official to do so, even though the state's budget was in a crisis and the governor was looking at calling the legislature back in for a special session. that is the kind of leadership that we need in washington, d.c.

sen. tester: the leadership commissioner rosendale showed in the legislature, and the fact is i turned $3.3 million back from my spending budget. being an auditor for the state, you should know what the debt ceiling is. obviously does not. the money has already been spent. if you don't increase the debt ceiling, it defaults. you should know that. that is the stuff that happens when you do not pay your bills. the debt ceiling is simply paying the bills. it needs to start long before that. it needs to make sure that we reduce it. the first bill i passed, a bipartisan bill of a senator from the brassica was a bill that reduced it. i need some help in washington dc to make sure it happens on both sides of the aisle. >> final word on this topic. >> when jon was in the montana

legislature he was aware that he had a balanced budget. we balanced our budget every single legislative session. as did he. he been in washington 12 years >> we will stop right there and move forward as we move on to our next topic. thank you for your additional thoughts. we are going onto a complicated and difficult area, that is health care. the people of montana feeling they are in limbo at this point. the last administration took a big swing at it with the affordable care act. this administration has talked about repeal and replace. i feel it montanans feel like they are caught in between with the health care system. let's talk about the future and your fundamental approach to legislation. do you see health care as a commodity where the marketplace could take care of the pricing? marketplace could take care of access? or is it more than a moral

obligation for health care to everyone? for this one, we will start with mr. rosen dale. mr. rosendale: i am really thrilled to be able to take this one first. everyone in the state knows that jon brought us obamacare. he was the deciding vote to bring obamacare to the state of montana. he stood with president obama and said that your premiums are going to go down by $2500, you will keep paying if you're like it and keep your doctors if you would like. we all know that all of those statements were false. what disturbs me the most is i think everybody knew walking into it that they were false. since i entered into the auditor's office, i work to try and cover pre-existing conditions. i am thrilled that the governor has a working group and is actually looking at a lot of the things i put forward turn the 2017 regular and special sessions so we could cover pre-existing conditions. in addition to that, we have to do several other things. this fully managed at the state

level a lot better than it will by having a top-down, one-sided federal government plan that jon tried to impose upon us. it got primary care provider agreements people are using, we've got short-term plans that have been extended for three years thanks to the president. we have association health plans, people can start joining ,lans with groups like the farm like the chamber of commerce, and the farm bureau. those are the kind of things and competition that will make sure that everybody's health care is accommodated in a fashion. >> thank you. senator tester. sen. tester: everybody knows that health care costs are too high. there is no doubt about that. i think we look at the federal government to try and make sure that we can get them affordable.

i can tell you that early on we went without health insurance in my marriage, we had to pay the bills or pay health insurance. we chose not to buy health insurance and pay the bills. it was a very tough time because every time you had a pain, you wonder if something might be far greater than just a pain in your back. so i have been there. , i understand it. i think if we were able to work in a bipartisan way on health care, health insurance, and making health care more affordable, i think we could come to some conclusions. unfortunately this issue has been too politicized. there is a point to bring up, early on in this congress a democrat and a republican were working on ways to work together to reduce health care costs. they were told not to do that anymore. those negotiations did not continue. i do not know who told them it, the truth is that is what needs to happen. commissioner rosendale has supported policy to keep people

with pre-existing conditions off health care policy. there is no if, and, or butts about that. he rubberstamped the 23% increase for the largest health insurance carrier in the state. why that is particularly important is the other companies came in at single digits. he went to florida and got money from junk short-term insurance moneyanies, took their and came back and was in favor of short-term policies. they are called junk because they do not cover anything. >> we will now move into the open discussion portion on this very important topic of health care. i know you both had something you want to do follow-up with. mr. rosendale: i laugh at jon's comments because they have already been refuted by montana's media. this is the washington democrat smear techniques that they use.

this has already been refuted. what i will say is he hasn't brought any solutions for, i have. it'll can accommodate health care in a way that accommodates the budget, personal needs, and personal choices. the other place we have to go to his transparency. i have taken legal action against the big pharmacy companies in the montana that are not disclosing what their contracts say and the gag orders they are tied into with different organizations around the state. and just how much money was flowing through their system. we've taken legal action against them because we discovered that the pharmaceutical industry is one of the biggest cost drivers for the health care industry. we are making steps. we are making sure people have options. we are making sure that other folks are being held accountable and we are trying to do it at the local level to make sure that pre-existing conditions are always covered. sen. tester: i had plenty of solutions.

drug transparency and drug pricing. is a prescription drug company wants to raise their prices, they have to justify why. we have to know if it is public dollars being used or private dollars. so we can determine whether the increases are fair. pharmacy benefit managers need to be taken out of the equation, it is unnecessary. it shouldn't be there. i have worked hard to get more residency slots in montana for practitioners and mental health practitioners. more doctors there are, the more competition there is. that goes on and on. i think it is interesting and unbelievable that commissioner rosendale would say that he did not go to florida, he did not take checks from short-term insurance companies and say that the press prove that wrong, they did not. they said you did exactly that and you found a loophole or around the law and take it out of your personal checking account. montana needs to understand campaign finance we remember the days of the copper gate when

they tried to by our government. the spirit of this law, you went around it and there is no if, and's, or buts about it. you put the money in your account, and then put in another account. by the time he got done it going to different accounts, people had a hard time keeping track of it. then you come back and support junk plans. mr. rosendale: i find it laughable that jon tester stands there and talks about campaign-finance and he is the largest recipient of contributions from lobbyists in the nation. the montana media has already refuted most of the commercials, not the dark money folks that he brought into this that's spent about $10 million against me. the commercials that jon has put out there that were making these claims. they said a lot of that stuff was false. it was flat-out false. again, this coming from a man who is the largest recipient of

contributions from lobbyists across the nation. more than nancy pelosi, more than chuck schumer. sen. tester: i don't know what that trick to go by but that does not matter here. what matters is commissioner rosendale, you want to talk about dark money? i paid for my house. -- i paid for my ads. you actually go to the folks who provided dark money. then i would say this quick, you can read them respond. then when a major donor comes up to him and gives him a check when he is running for insurance commissioner and becomes insurance commissioner. he meets with the money second meeting ended drops all the charges that were brought against him by the previous commissioner. that is what people hate about politicians and what they hate about politics. >> mr. rosendale we will give you a final response.

mr. rosendale: three words, washington democrat smear. plain and simple. sen. tester: rosendale is the swamp. >> went completely off the rail from health care. we're going to move back to a topic of great interest you're in montana, that is veterans. >> per capita, montana has one of the largest populations of veterans in the nation. recent studies have shown that va hospital care is as good or better than private hospitals and generally speaking veterans are happy with the care they receive when they get in the door. getting in to see a doctor has been a problem. there have been efforts to help veterans see private doctors when they cannot get an appointment. privatization is a loaded word. is that the way we need to go? or would that be a bad idea? the first response goes to sen. tester: or it.

sen. tester: i take taking care of our veterans as a very important responsibility for our country. we worked hard to make sure that the problems at the va has, they can address. we put 10 bills on the president's desk this congress, working on a bipartisan way to do it. the last one was a act that will replace the private sector choice act that will work really well. we did some things on accountability, we did some things to cut down the backlogs in the ba we want to recruit and retain good doctors, including mental health folks. we have a ways to go. we are still going to work together in a bipartisan way to make sure that the facilities are staffed. there is a staffing problem in the v.a., i would assume that is a major problem right now. on the other hand you have commissioner rosendale who would vote against the south western montana veterans program.

it is being built as we speak. he voted against funding for the columbia falls veterans. he voted against our ships for -- against scholarships for purple heart veterans. he voted against housing loans for gold star families, folks that have lost loved ones. i get up every day trying to make sure we do better for our veterans. i don't think commissioner rosendale has had a day where he is actually supported them. mr. rosendale: of course i support our veterans. i dad served in the marine corps, my younger brother served in the marine corps. fortunately they both did their time without getting injured. when i do find a problem with is that the veterans across the state who i have been meeting with regularly, i have an advisory panel with members from across the state, they give me information and say they are being forced to wait 60 and 90 days before they can see a physician of a their wanting. they are being forced to god of -- to go out of state to colorado and washington state to , see specialists because they

can't have their needs accommodated. we do have a problem. we have an incredible staffing problem. i think our veterans kept their promises to the people of this nation and it is far past time for the nation to keep their promises to the veterans. i have been working extremely hard to find and identify a lot of money that goes out in new facilities being built but we are not putting proper staffing in there. as far as the veterans in southwest montana, it still has not broken ground. when i served in the legislature, there was not federal funds available. i work in good faith with other legislatures to make sure we can provide funds at the state level. as many of you know, federal funds are unreliable and are heavily restricted. i tried to make sure that we

could get those funds at the state level to start construction on that. >> will move to the open discussion on our current topic of it veterans care. we will have sen. tester: started. sen. tester: i think it is amazing that we are here. he voted against funding for the southwest montana veterans home. the funding was absolutely necessary. the new delegation did a fine job. they obviously did not care about the southwest montana veterans. they're putting in for structure into that home as we speak. their lengthy water and electricity. it will get built because the legislature stepped up without commissioner rosendale's help and the federal government stepped up because they knew our veterans were that important. whether it is the missions act or repeals back law, making sure we have accountability within employees at the v.a., i have worked hard in a bipartisan way giving input to folks.

i remember the first time i had a roundtable discussion after i was elected a vietnam veteran said you are not going to treat this generation of veterans like -- like theyhours treated ours. i've done my best to live up to the promises. he cut the vietnam veterans in this country, we are treating this generation better. we still have a long ways to go to meet the needs from a health care standpoint, housing standpoint, and an educational standpoint. mr. rosendale: we do have a lot of work to do. while i do appreciate the legislation that senator tester has put through, it is not improving the conditions on the ground enough. i spoke to veterans from the iraq and afghanistan wars and they are experiencing some of the exact same things that our veterans from the vietnam war did. they've got these burn pits and the veterans administration is simply not taking care of this fast enough. they're sending these gentlemen and ladies out to get testing and then they are not honoring the tests that they are getting done in the private sector.

we have to get treatment, we have to get it faster and i'm not going to stop until we have proper leadership and administration to make sure those services are delivered. sen. tester: i think we may agree on this issue more than any of the others. we have to step up and take care of our veterans. we have been at war for far too long. we have to do it in a bipartisan way. that's exactly how i have tried to proceed and washington, d.c. on the veterans committee and and the united states senate heard. >> mr. rosendale like you to have the last word. mr. rosendale: we have to look at the administration and the leadership that is installed in these places right now and make sure that we are staffing properly. our veterans deserve to have care they want, when they want it and where they want it. period. >> gentlemen, we are going to

move forward to another complex and multifaceted issue, that is the topic of immigration. i think each of your parties love to throw around the stereotypes of each party for this. eventually, that becomes personal. either you are too soft on this or you are heartless about this. you are both here and you are both on the record saying you want to protect the border. you obviously want to do it in different ways. let's hear from you tonight, what is the best way to secure our borders and how do we go about paying for that? we will start with you mr. rosendale. mr. rosendale: this is a very critical time in our nation's history. we have to secure our border. we have to secure our border. some of that is going to require that we build a wall. some of that very well may be monitored with other devices, whether they be drones or ice to go down. border patrol agents to make sure that we are not having the border penetrated. we have got to secure the walls.

once we secure our southern border, we have to deport criminals. we cannot have people running around our country and allow them to hole up in sanctuary cities, which jon tester has supported time and time again. we just cannot have that. we have to deport the criminals and put a process in place where we can identify who is coming into our country, how long they're going to be here, and what are they going to be here for. that is very important. people talk about the immigrants and immigration that is taking place. they talk about labor needs and we can have that discussion about the number of people that should be here and make sure they are properly vetted. by not having our border secured, we have a lot more problems than just immigration. there is a steady flow of drugs that comes into our country and human trafficking that is taking place on the southern border is causing social and economic

problems throughout the nation, not just on southern states. sen. tester: i think it is critically important that we make sure our border is secure. and i think it should be. and the northern border too. they will go to the weakest link in the chain, the people that want to do us harm. i think it takes a combination of all three things. a wall where appropriate, technology where you can do pennies on the dollar for what wall costs, and then manpower. i think if we are able to do that and make sure that our ports have the technology and the manpower to stop the drugs coming across to make sure we have the infrastructure we need on the border to make sure folks who are undocumented cannot come across the border, i think that is a giant first that. it is one of the reasons the border control council has endorsed me. they didn't endorse commissioner rosendale, they endorsed me. there the same outfit that

endorsed president trump and senator mccain, by the way. they are the folks that are on the border. these are the guys and gals to keep this country safe by patrolling our border. they understand that i am going to fight for them to make sure they get what they need to secure that border. as far as the safe havens issue that he talks about, i think it is interesting that he brings it up. the bottom line is in every one of those bills, they pulled money from law enforcement mainly, one i believe pulled money from economic development. i have been around the state and talk to law enforcement, you cannot pull money from law enforcement. that doesn't make your communities more safe. so, the bottom line is that i know in the past commissioner rosendale has voted to cut money from local law enforcement. he talks but human trafficking he was one of seven senators in , the state legislature that voted not to increase the penalties on human trafficking. bottom line is i got endorsed by , the border patrol because they understand that i am tough on immigration and will give them the resources they need. thank you. >> let's move on to the open discussion and i will throw in

my own request here as we shipped over. we have heard about border security, i would like to hear a little more of the idea of legal immigration and what that would look like and what your vision for that would the as we go forward in this process with immigration. mr. rosendale, but are to get us started. mr. rosendale: i think the first thing is we have to identify exactly what labor needs are necessary to be filled with the marketplace. until we do that, it is very difficult to establish a line of how many people, a number of how many people should be coming into the country. if we are going to allow these folks to come into the country, we should make sure that they are trained and have support in place when they do get here that they are going to become contributing members of society. our country is very generous and has a long record of embracing immigration.

everyone in this room, their ancestors came from somewhere else before they landed here. i think it is a critical part of continuing this large melting pot that we have. we have to identify what the needs are and make sure folks who are coming in and embrace our culture, what the united states -- the same as the folks that are are the here and are going to contribute. sen. tester: all you have to do is look back to a few years back when the senate passed the bipartisan comprehensive immigration bill. that bill started out by putting incredible investments on the borders. that is why i believe it got voted, unfortunately the house did not take it. it also gave folks a pathway for citizenship if they learn english, paid their taxes, and obey the law. you work your way through it. the same way my ancestors did. probably the same way yours did too. i think that is the direction we

need to go to make sure we secure the borders forced -- first. then move forward with immigration package that can work for this country, i think it is critically important. mr. rosendale: i hear jon saying these things but he has not supported the president when the president is trying to get proper funding to secure our border. that is where it all begins. we have to secure the border. he has supported the washington democrats when they want to set up sanctuary cities and as you just heard, grant amnesty to hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of people that came here and their first act was to violate our laws. i just do not support that. >> a final word from senator tester? sen. tester: i talked about commissioner rosendale's lack of funding for local law enforcement. i support bills that actually empower them. i think we can do better in a bipartisan way moving forward. i don't know where he gets amnesty from, i have never supported that, i have support

comprehensive immigration that makes people get in line, learning language, and pay their bank taxes. >> thank you both for that, we will move on to the next topic although i think we were arty digging into this earlier. >> we did talk about this earlier but i'm sure there is more to it. according to a recent report, during the first two weeks of september, the number of outside advertisements targeting federal candidates has increased 85% since 2014. the ads attacked both of you and are overwhelmingly negative. some of these groups called dark money groups do not have to reveal their bank donors. you believe outside funding is a problem? and if so, what would you do to address it? sen. tester: i think transparency in elections is critically important.

i think one of the things we have in montana is a transparent government it makes the government work better. the part of our government needs to be transparent is why you're seeing issues like this. the supreme court passed the citizens united bill. montana is no better than anybody. the copper kings over 100 years ago tried to buy our government. montana and spoke up and said things like corporations -- that is exactly what they need to do in washington dc. it is exactly the kind of bill that needs to be passed. that is why i have supported bills like that every time they have come up. to increase the transparency so we have maximum transparency on the money that is coming in. why? has we need to know who is trying to influence our election. it is one of the reasons that i am endorsed by a group called end citizens united. we can of limits, so corporations are not people. commissioner rosendale is funded

by a -- is endorsed by citizens united. this is really important for montana so we have more transparency. i do get is important for the country. mr. rosendale: again, it is almost laughable. jon tester's outside groups have spent $10 million against me. the end citizens united group is another one of those groups that have hidden contributors. they are running ads about fighting against so-called dark money. it is the height of hypocrisy. i think we need to focus on getting instantaneous notification on the contributions that the candidates are receiving, like all of the lobbyist money that jon is receiving. he is the number one recipient of lobbyist contributions across the nation. more than chuck schumer, more than nancy pelosi. these are the kinds of things

that people want to know. >> thank you mr. rosendale, will going to the open discussion. now, we would try to make this a little shorter since we went through this a little earlier. a chance for some of you to mention something. sen. tester: if you look at the ads on tv, how many are paid for by the dark money groups, you can see the vast majority of his ads are by folks who we don't know who they are. he is actually lobbied some of them to run ads in the state of montana, which by the way is illegal. he is tried to do everything to get around of our spirit of campaign laws. i, on the other hand have supported time and time again efforts in washington dc to try and make elections more transparent. i think it is important. i think the reason you know who my donors is and the reason we are going to have immediate

notification of who donates to a campaign is because of a bill i dropped in 2008 that finally got to the president's desk last week. i will continue to fight for more transparency in elections. commissioner rosendale, all you have to do is look at the ads. everyone of them are paid for by dark groups. my ads are i am jon tester and i approve this message. mr. rosendale: many of which have been proven false. the last thing i will say is that there are democrats across the nation that have called for the so-called dark money groups to stay out of their bank state. if john was so concerned, he could have done that and he hasn't. they continued to bail money into help his campaign. >> thank you both for additional thoughts on our final topic of dark money. we have almost reached the end of our hour here.

we will have closing statements, a chance for them to wrap up tonight event. per the coin toss earlier we will start with senator tester. sen. tester: i want to thank you for a very well run debate. i think the university of montana for allowing us to be on their campus in this beautiful studio. i think this debate has shown that this race is from a standpoint of what we stand for is 180 degrees off. i have said it before and i will say it again. you have myself who was born here, raised here, educated here. married a woman who was also born here, raised here, and educated here. somebody who has had the privilege and i mean that, the privilege to farm the land of my grandparents homestead here in montana. my parents farm from the 1940's through the late 1970's. someone who knows the value of public land. somebody who understands that health care is not as easy as

just pulling the plug but putting forth policies that can work. somebody who understands education. we didn't get into education much, but the fact is i think we , need to make public education better for our kids, not privatize it or turn it into charter schools like my opponent wants. then you have commissioner rosendale, somebody was a developer from maryland, made his millions there and bought a ranch in montana, claims to be a ranger but has no cows. doesn't understand policy, health care, or education. the choice is obvious. i would appreciate your vote on election day. >> thank you, senator tester. mr. rosendale. mr. rosendale: thank you so much for hosting us this evening and the university of montana as well. thank you for joining me tonight, you're my rock, 33 years she has been by my side, you are my rock. jon tester told the people 12 years ago that there was a problem with the lobbyist money being involved.

he is the largest recipient of lobbyist contributions in the nation. jon stood here 12 years ago and said there was a problem with spending in washington, d.c. and he has since increased the debt ceiling 11 times and increase the national debt from a $8 trillion to over jon tester, $21 trillion. the fact of the matter is he bought a million-dollar home in washington, d.c., and left montana in the rearview mirror. there is people that go into washington and they get completely intoxicated with power and privilege, they start thinking about the next election. i will tell you, that is why i have committed that if i am fortunate enough to be elected, i will only serve two terms. i believe in term limits. i believe that power of privilege is intoxicating. i will humbly ask for your vote and i would like to have that

this november so i can have the honor of serving each and every one of you in washington, d.c. god bless each and everyone of you. >> we wanted to thank both of the candidates for being here tonight. how very important is to get together in the same room and have a discussion about the issues like this evening. we want to remind our viewers and listeners that you can go to our website for a follow-up and fact check on everything you have been hearing tonight. we invite you to visit that site as well. we also want to thank everyone on our production crew for participating with us this evening. of course, our viewers and listeners who joined us here. want you to participate in the process, whether that is voting early or getting out there on tuesday, november 6, please get out there and vote. all of us at thank you for joining us and good night. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> with the control of congress this election day, watch the

key debates. make c-span your primary source for campaign 2018. >> presidents trump will speak at a rally in a johnson city, tennessee for former representative marsha blackburn who is running for the senate seat in that state. our live coverage begins monday at 7:00 p.m. on c-span3. c-span, your primary source for campaign 2018. pulitzer prize-winning author geraldine brooks is our guest on our in depth program. 's other novels include march, caleb's crossing, people of the book, and the year of wonders. live sunday, october 7, from

noon to 3 p.m. eastern on book tv and be sure to watch in-depth fiction edition next month with author jodi picot. book tv, c-span2. >> last night president trump was campaigning in wheeling, west virginia are several republican candidates who were campaigning to run in november. ♪