competition for the control of congress on c-span. secret invasion in key house and senate races. make c-span your primary source for campaign 2018. u.s., a debate for the senate seat in massachusetts between elizabeth warren and hl, a member of the massachusetts house of representatives. live coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. with 16 days until the election, make c-span your primary source for campaign 2018. >> malcolm a debate in the race for the u.s. senate seat in ohio between incumbent democratic senator sherrod brown and republican u.s. congressman james renacci. this is just under one hour. welcome to the 2018 ohio u.s.

senate debate, hosted by wosu public media and by nbc 4. moderator: good evening, everyone, and welcome to the united states senate debate between incumbent democrat sherrod brown and his republican challenger, congressman jim renacci. am colleen marshall in conjunction with our studio host, wosu media, the ohio debate commission, and broadcast partners across ohio, we are pleased to bring you this important political conversation. we are coming to you from the fawcett center on the campus of ohio state university. the ohio state university. no no studio audience tonight, just the candidates and our journalists. mike thompson is the news and public affairs director here at wosu. mike jackson is the coanchor at

cbs 4. and mark allen is a reporter. joining our panalists are the candidates. senator sherrod brown has served in the u.s. senate since 2006, and jim renacci represents ohio's 16th congressional district since 2010. gentlemen, we welcome both of you. the candidates have agreed tonight to alternating questions. 90 seconds for an answer, 60 seconds for a response, and then a 30-second rebuttal. by agreement, each will also give a 30-second opening statement, getting out with senator sherrod brown. sen. brown: thank you to all of you on the panel. special thanks especially to the voters of ohio watching tonight.

we are joined by my wife and daughter. i am hopeful the debate will focus on issues, we will stay on issues, and we can discuss especially what we can do as a senator for ohio families. thank you. .oderator: thank you mr. renacci. rep. renacci: thank you. i want to thank the debate commission and nbc and affiliates, and all of those here today. today's debate will show two different people with two different visions. my vision is always for ohio first and ohioans. my opponent's vision is for washington verse and of course the democratic party and of course is special interest money. two different people with two different visions. i welcome everyone to get to know us both. .oderator: we thank both of you the candidates agreed into something tonight a little out of the ordinary. at the start of each half-hour, one of the candidates will be able to ask the other candidate a question, and the other candidate will have 90 seconds

to respond. by prior agreement, we begin with senator brown, who has his question for representative renacci. brown: thank you, ms. marshall. the stop act, the care act, many pieces of legislation, some of which will be signed but the president in coming days. my question is, you have attacked my work with sen. portman. what specifically do you think we have done wrong about this? rep. renacci: thank you for the question. my heart goes out to those who have experienced loss from the opioid tragedy. i have set up a panel of people who been addicted and recovered, a panel of people who have lost

children, which is so sad, and then a panel of people who have worked with recovery. we need to be talking to the people and making sure we are listening to their concerns. number one, we need to talk about darrell, who opened the medicine cabinet and found opioids, or michael, a businessman who lost his entire business because he opened that those are policies we need to change and we also need to look at parents who have lost children. they told me that the first thing they ran into after their child came out of a recovery center is that the drug dealer was right there. these are issues we should look into, and then the recovery centers. it is not all about money. my concern is, these centers will tell you it is not a fixed month transition, and in some

cases it is a five-year transition. we should look at how to change policies in washington, not always talking about money. money helps, but policies can change things, whether it is the education system, which could allow someone like darrell to see other opportunities than just the opioids. those are things we can change. my heart continues to go out when i pull this panel together and realize how may people where losing. -- we are losing. we need to work together and i promise to do that. moderator: i will begin with the first question, it goes to you, senator brown. the u.s. deficit has had a 70% increase. the tax cut has failed to - a 17% increase. the tax cut has failed to increase revenues to the levels expected.

meanwhile, military spending has increased, contributing to the rising deficit. would you support reversing the tax cut or reducing military spending to cut the deficit? sen. brown: during the debate on the tax cut, i went to the white house and a dozen of us met with the resident. i suggested we passed legislation, we passed my working families relief act, a gives texas to the middle class and not the wealthy, and an act that is companies pay workers well, provide good benefits and retirement, they get a lower tax rate. this congress -- the president said he liked the idea and then special interests went to work. we ended up with a tax bill where more than three fourths of the benefit went to the wealthiest 1%, people like my opponent, who thinks his tax bill is great.

the fact is, this tax cut them up of course i would vote to change the tax cuts so we focus on the middle class and we don't focus on giving tax cuts to the richest people in the country. moderator: congressman? rep. renacci: the difference between myself and my opponent is the tax cuts are working. as i travel the state, i see jobs being created, i see businesses continuing to grow. i'm happy to see we have employers giving employees -- i come around and i get thank you from people saying i now have more money in my paycheck. they love to see that. at the same time, we have to have a strong military. we have let our military go down and we need to keep both. the tax cuts and jobs bill gave us the 4.3% growth. we need to continue the growth and jobs. we need to continue our economy growing. go back to the late 1990's, and

you will find that when we were balancing our budget, it was because of 6.2% growth. we need to continue to move growth forward, and i am proud to say i support the tax cut and jobs bill because that will continue to grow the economy and get us out of the deficit. we don't want to go back to the lost decade, as i call it, that senator brown and barack obama supported where we had 1.8% growth and deficits continue to grow. we also need to look at spending. let's face it, we have a problem with spending. we will have record revenues in the treasury this year but we also have record spending. i think we need to evaluate our spending, but not defense spending, because it has been let go many years.

when you do make sure we continue to grow the economy, continue to have the jobs growth we are having. we will be able to grow our way out of this in many ways, and i think that's what we should continue to do. moderator: your response? sen. brown: i judge an economy not by corporate profits or the stock market, although i hope they do well, i judge the economy by what is happening with worker wages. have seen profits go like this, executive compensation explode, we have seen productivity go up, but workers are not sharing the wealth. wages are flat. what the congressman doesn't tell us is that as soon as that bill was signed by the president, the bill about three quarters of the benefits went into the wealthiest 1%, republican leadership immediately said we have to cut medicare and social security or raise the eligibility age to pay for. they are advocating, the congressman is advocated, as republican leaders in washington, that we cut taxes on the wealthy, the dominantly cut taxes on the wealthy, and it is paid for by hard-working americans through a more difficult retirement because of cuts in social security and

medicare. moderator: mike thompson has a question. >> congressman, you say you support a market-based replacement for obamacare. most would say that to cover pre-existing conditions, you have to require people to buy insurance or a government subsidy otherwise people wait until they are sick. how would your market-based system of health insurance work without government help? rep. renacci: first of all, i want an affordable care act that is affordable. today, it is not working. premiums have gone up 132% for ohioans since it was put in place. that is not affordable care. we are taking care of a program, we are taking care of those with a safety net. the wealthy can pay their own way. the problem is, mary in the middle with her children, she cannot afford premiums or deductibles. we need to bring competition and

transparency in, and bring costs down so everyone can have access to it and afford it. moderator: senator? sen. brown: the most important thing to do with the health care system is to deal with the cost problem. high costs are driving up the cost of medicare, especially high drug costs. this congress does nothing to take on drug companies. you have a congress, the white house looks like a retreat for pharmaceutical representatives, drug company ceos. also, the congressman, more than 20 times has voted to eliminate the consumer protections for pre-existing conditions. 5 million ohioans, more than half of the adults in the state, have a pre-existing condition. he has voted 20 times to take away, as mr. thompson suggested, those protections for pre-existing conditions. if he had his way, if john mccain hadn't stopped it with

his vote, insurance companies would be able to deny coverage to people with cancer, to people with parkinson's or diabetes, osteoporosis. it is morally wrong, bad economics, bad health care policy. you will never get the cost under control if we don't take on the drug companies for spiking costs, and if we don't fight back against insurance interests trying to allow cancellation of policies of people with pre-existing conditions. moderator: your rebuttal? rep. renacci: the senator is lying. i never said we need to get rid of pre-existing conditions. in fact, i supported legislation to make sure pre-existing conditions stay. but let's face it, he also talk about lobbyists, which is amazing, he has received $5 million and lobbyists. the same ones lobbying for prescription drugs. it really comes down to we need

to make sure health care is affordable and we are taking care of pre-existing conditions, and we need to make sure the middle of the road, mom-and-pop fighting every day to cover their children, can pay for it. >> congressman, can you elaborate more on how competition and transparency will bring down health care costs? rep. renacci: the best example i can give you is lasik eye surgery. there was a time when there was no competition. the prices were extremely high, and then all of a sudden there was competition. today, you have competition, you have billboards, it's down to a couple hundred dollars. this is how you bring competition down. and you have to have transparency. the biggest problem we have in health care system is nobody knows what they are paying for. i was at the dentist the other day and he told me, i have to do another x-ray. nobody knows what the costs are, but he said it was covered. we need transparency. moderator: mike jackson has a

question. >> this question comes from a woman in columbus. she has a lot of concern about social issues we are facing today. she is particularly concerned about the relationship between our community and police department. she wants to know, what approach would you take to improve the drug problem we currently face and the increasing racial divide? sen. brown: thank you for the question. i have been endorsed by the fraternal order of police because i sit and listen to police officers and talk about the issues they face every day. i've also been endorsed by all kinds of civil rights groups for the same reason. i sit and listen to them and talk about the issues they face. i think you start in part with the social issues, whether it is appalachia or the inner cities. we have a government in washington that continues to

give tax cuts to the wealthiest people in the country. we don't invest in infrastructure. we don't invest in community policing. the governor, his attorney general was caught not spending money on training for police officers. police officers want to do a good job, there are a few bad apples like anywhere else, but we don't focus on community relations. in columbus, they are working hard, but we have to deal with the issues of housing better than we do. we have to deal with the issues of income disparity and inequality better than we do. we have a government in washington that cuts funding on housing and a government in columbus that does the same. we have governments to give tax cuts to the wealthiest people and forget about helping struggling people and working families. moderator: your rebuttal? rep. renacci: again, i do think we have a divide, and especially

in the inner-city and it's one of the reasons i started opportunity cleveland. you take youth so that they can have mentors and opportunities. the best way to change this is a growing economy. to continue to make sure our economy is growing. so people can continue to find good paying jobs. then we need to direct many of our youth into those good paying jobs. career politicians the last 20 years have forgotten is not only about going to college, it's about making sure you have a career path that gives you the opportunity to live the american dream. we can do that if we allow people to seek other opportunities, college, mentorship programs, and opportunities for youth. sen. brown: i am sorry, rebuttal.

the other day, i was speaking with someone and a picnic, he had gone to a vocational school. he had gone to a proprietary school to learn diesel mechanics. he is doing well, he has a pretty decent job, he says, that pays decent wages. but he has got student loans that are still oppressive. whether you go to columbus state or ohio state, whether you go to an apprentice program or community college, you are faced with high student loans. my opponent voted to deny 25 million ohio americans a chance for lower interest rates on student loans. how do you get working families an opportunity if that's what you're doing?

-->> what would you do directly to improve this for the people you represent? sen. brown: i would work on sentencing reform. i would work on bandbox amount -- band of box, which i have done with cory booker of new jersey. i opposed the efforts of the republican party all over the country to try to suppress the vote and rollback voting rights. there is clearly an attack across the board on all of those kinds of civil rights issues. it undercuts the relationship police and the community are trying to build, when you have a federal government that does not seem to care. it is hard to build the relationship that police officers are trying to build, and community leaders are trying to build. moderator: were now going to go to mark allen. >> good evening. we journalists have reported on countless mass shootings in recent years.

almost without exception, within the next day or two, we learn about some degree of mental illness in the background of the gunmen. as a first step of reducing gun violence in america, is a time -- is it time for congress to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill? rep. renacci: it's interesting, and my heart goes out to those we lose because of this type of violence. you also mention something very important -- mental illness. when i first got into the business world, and i was in the business world almost three decades, i have facilities to -- i had facilities to take care of mental health. state and federal governments decided we were not going to take care of those with mental illness. those facilities had to tell these individuals they could not stay, so where do they go? on the streets. they are in our prisons and on our streets. my heart goes out because we need to make sure. we need to look at mental health and make sure that mental health

individuals are taken care of. we have a safety net for a lot of others and we need to make sure there is a safety net for those. when it comes to gun violence, we should look at background checks and make sure the same thing. when someone has mental illness in their background, they don't get those guns. these are things i can agree with and will continue to work on. but it comes down to mental illness. the government has seem to forgotten about it. sen. brown: every time there is a gun shooting, defenders of the gun lobby send thoughts and prayers to victims, as we all do and should, but then they refuse to close any of the gun loopholes. if you are on the terrorist watch list, you go out to an airport, you can't get on a plane, but you can buy an assault weapon. we have tried to close that loophole time and time again in congress, some others don't have -- so mothers don't have to be

afraid of sending their children to school. we tried to close the loophole, and every time, the gun lobby steps up, and every time, republican members of congress defend the nra and the gun lobby. they get tens of thousands of dollars in contributions. the gun lobby spent, we think, we don't know because it is all dark money, millions of dollars against my campaigns. all of these loopholes, assault weapons, the terrorist exemption, universal background checks, all of these modest, commonsense reforms that congress should be doing that 80%, 90% of the public wants, the gun lobby blocks it because they have the congress in their pockets. rep. renacci: my opponent continues to talk about lobbyists, he is collected a list three $7 million this cycle -- he has collected almost $27 million this cycle from lobbyists. it gets back to the issue he refuses not to talk about, mental health. that is where we need to go. we have cities that are gun free. we have a place in washington, d.c. that was gun free where a member of congress was shot.

if you look at the background of the individuals, there are mental health issues we need to take care of, and we need to make sure we are redirecting our resources in that area. moderator: do you have a follow-up? >> back to my original question regarding keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. part of the challenge is defining who is mentally ill. millions of americans are treated for things like anxiety and depression. would they be included in that group? where is the line and who draws that line? rep. renacci: i think we've seen in many cases where there are gun violence, to me times it is -- too many times it is communication, communication when it comes to mental illness. we have doctors who treat these individuals, we have individual friends who see it. there's a lot that can be done when it comes to just looking and comparing, and looking at our friends. but this is about continuing to

make sure we are doing what is right for the law-abiding gun owners, and at the same time taking care of those with mental illness. sen. brown: that's exactly the point about mental illness. i hear over and over again, we have to focus on mental health. of course we do, but the people saying that are always in the pocket of the gun lobby, and they are the same people that voted to cut spending on medicaid over and over. i stood with governor kasich, a republican. i am a democrat. i support him strongly in his expansion of medicaid. 500,000 ohioans have gotten mental health treatment because of the medicaid expansion, yet congress wants to cut that, and the congressman is first in line. moderator: were going to go to mike thompson. he has a question for senator brown. >> senator, the immigration and customs enforcement agency has stepped up enforcement in ohio since president trump took office.

our region has seen a 36% increase in deportations in the first year of the trump administration. some democrats call for the abolishment of ice. do you think it should be abolished, and how should we properly enforce immigration laws? sen. brown: no, you should not abolish ice, you should reformat -- you should reform ice and make it better than it is. i take a backseat to no one in enforcing our borders with technology, helicopters, better trained ice agents. i had a bill that went to the white house when the president signed that keeps carfentanil from coming across our borders as best we can. but you don't do raids on people who are working hard and playing by the rules and let criminals who are here stay. the focus of ice, of the administration, should be on deporting those people who have committed violent crimes. there are a lot of workers in this country who don't have

documentation, millions. there should be path to citizenship. these are people working hard, often active in the church, paying taxes, paying into social security. instead, we deport people like that. what the administration has done to break up families, to rip children from their parents is immoral and bad, stupid policy. my wife and i were talking one day -- we have four small grandchildren. at that age, if they were taken -- they don't even know the names of their parents and the city they live him a yet the -- and the city in which they lived. yet the government has ripped those kids from their parents and don't seem to have any interest. the congressman has never stood up to it and talked to his friend, the president, and said let's be more humane when it comes to splitting up families. moderator: your response? rep. renacci: the senator says he takes a backseat to no one,

yet he does accept a lot of lobbyist money, and that's where he takes the front seat. the senator supports sanctuary cities. that is not something ohioans support. the senator supports no borders. that is something ohioans do not support. the senator is lying when he says germany's he didn't say -- germany cc didn't say he should be separating children at the borders. i said that, i disagree with my president. taking a backseat to no one, he is also saying illegal immigration does not matter. he is saying the people who come here illegally should be able to continue to work -- these are illegals. they are here illegally. sandy was in a plane with me flying back. she said please don't let illegal aliens get ahead of me. that is what is important. let's make sure we have a legal system that allows a process for people to become legal citizens and not let illegal aliens

stepped in and come here. moderator: senator? sen. brown: for the record, you will hear this over and over about campaign contributions, every race i have been involved in i have been outspent. all of the outside money, the gun lobby, the oil industries. i chose to do this for a living, but to put this on the record, 155,000 people have contributed to my campaign and the average contribution is $42. i take a backseat to no one standing up to wall street and the drug companies and oil industry when they attacked the middle class in my state. moderator: thank you. we are taking one break during this program, and we will do that now. we will be back in 60 seconds with the congressman's question for senator brown.

>> welcome back to the u.s. senate debate between jerry brown and in jim renee c. at the end of the hour, senator brown asked a question of congressman renee c. now it's mr. renee c turn to ask. you will have 90 seconds to answer. rep. renacci: the marietta times this week had an editorial about domestic violence, and it said one time is too many. in december of 2016, you asked senator franken to step down when it was learned that it was substantiated sexual assault issue. you asked him to step down. archie parnell is a candidate for congress in south carolina. congressman ryan said because of domestic abuse that happened over 40 years ago, he needs to step down. they said that is not a standard of conduct that needs to be tolerated in the house and senate. senator, do you believe any

instance of domestic violence or sexual assault disqualifies anyone from serving in a public office? sen. brown: i have answered that question numerous times with you, numerous times. my former wife has asked you stop attacking our family. the states newspapers have asked you to stop making these kinds of disgusting allegations. you should be ashamed of yourself. moderator: my question now goes to the congressman. it happens to be in the same area. your campaign and you have made quite an issue out of the decades-old allegations of domestic allegations involving senator brown and his former wife. you justify that by pointing to court documents, public records, and you said that was the reason this should be part of the public discourse. public records show ivana trump

made allegations of physical and sexual assault against donald trump during their divorce in the 1990's. in sworn testimony and pleadings filed with the court, those allegations were made. there is demonstrable evidence of infidelity involving mr. trump. by your own reasoning, should that have disqualified him from serving in public office? rep. renacci: i would say that i don't believe any man, any man, who harms a woman -- that is unacceptable. number two, forgiveness does not mean it did not happen. number three, in the cases i am discussing with senator brown, these are documents which show evidence of abuse with affidavits, and also restraining orders. you cannot get a judge to get a restraining order if something did not happen. in 2016, as i said earlier, he asked senator franken to step

down because of allegations of sexual assault. look, senator brown does not get grandfathered in on this issue. when it comes to the president, if the senator wants to run against him in 2020, he can use that information against him. but this race is about me and senator brown, and about whether he is disqualified to be a united states senator because of accusations that, by the way, i know he has said that i am lying. that means he is saying the judge has lied. when there is a restraining order, there is enough evidence to prove these things. in the end, i think republicans, democrats, independents, if they violate and put their hands on a woman, none of them should be serving in the united states senate or the house. moderator: a brief follow-up. you really did not answer my question. should it have disqualified president trump from public

service? rep. renacci: i did into your -- i did answer your question. this is not about president trump, but there are lot of thing that president trump says or does that i may be don't like, but i like what he is doing and the economy. in the end, if that is what is going to be used in the 2020 campaign, it can be used. right now, we're talking about a senate race -- i am not running for president. if i was running for president, i just said, anyone, democrat, republican, independent, who lays their hand on a woman, that disqualifies them for being in the house and senate. moderator: our next question comes from mark allen. >> senator, would you support a measure that would totally ban pac money from election campaigns, thereby reducing the cost of campaign ads and elections, which i think we can all agree is spiraling out of control, and making this democratic process more insulated from outside influence?

sen. brown: absolutely. we should limit the amount of money in campaigns. the citizens united case by the supreme court at the time, that opened up the spigots so that all kind of dark money would come in. no complaints, but in 2012 more money was spent against me by special interests then ever in u.s. history at that time. the record has been broken since . it is important for the people's voices to be heard. democrats have tried repeatedly to overturn citizens united. senator mcconnell, one of the congressman's weakest -- biggest cheerleaders, has blocked any effort to overturn citizens united, which would limit money. we should limit contributions and limit expenditures, and certainly limit the outside dark money that comes into the state. i was secretary of state a

number of years ago, and i led the charge to try to restrain big money in political campaigns in those days. i've been trying to do that for years. unfortunately, interest groups put their thumbs on the scale. the supreme court continues to put its thumb on the scale of justice, supporting corporations over workers, supporting wall street over consumers, supporting health care copies of -- companies over patients, and supporting dark money in politics that washes over the whole system. that's why the tax bill that went overwhelmingly for the wealthiest, it passed because of special interest in washington and why i opposed it. moderator: congressman? rep. renacci: i have always said the easiest way to change washington is two things -- eliminate some of the pac money, especially the $27 million my opponent has received, and term limits. my opponent even believed in term limits in 1997. the reason why you have to have

term limits before you eliminate pac money is it would give nobody an opportunity to be able to compete with the ability to raise money and turn around and run campaign. we should look at eliminating as much money as we can. it is absolutely unbelievable my opponent can raise $27 million. he used to be that number one candidate for raising money in the senate, i think he is $500 short of the number one. the truth is that is causing a problem. i am all for term limits, which eliminate career politicians who raise $27 million, and at the same time, allowing people to get their message out the best way they can without spending $27 million attacking their opponent. sen. brown: again, 155 thousand different contributors, averaging $42 each. congressman rene's has a little problem with the truth. he made $13 million and tried to avoid paying taxes on it until he got caught.

he pals around with his crooked businessman in canton that gave him $100,000 until he got caught. he was a lobbyist until he got caught. he has a little trouble with the truth as he has in the last eight years of congress and i think that speaks for itself. moderator: mike jackson has a question now. >> representative, the intergovernmental panel on climate change has updated its report on the situation, and it says the situation is getting worse. president trump has said in the past that climate change is a hoax. this week, he does not deny climate change -- it could go back. he said climate change scientists could have a political agenda. do you agree with that? rep. renacci: i believe in making ohio first and protecting

ohioans. we have to make sure we have clean water and air, and all of the above. whether it is nuclear, wind, solar, we should be looking at all of those. but we should not be taking way, -- we shouldn't be taking away, as senator brown did, try to bankrupt the coal industry, which is important to ohio. we should be growing the oil and gas industry, which is important to ohio. that's what i stand with ohio first and ohioians. if you eliminate coal, as the senator would like to do -- and you talk about money, he has collected so much money from the special interest climate control that he is probably forgetting about the people of ohio. we cannot allow our cost of energy to go up by eliminating some of the assets we have, which is clean coal, clean natural gas, and clean opportunities for jobs in ohio.

do i believe we need to make sure we protect our environment? absolutely. do i believe we need to make sure we are protecting ohio and the cost of electricity? absolutely as well. that's why i stand with ohio first. sen. brown: i am proud that ohio has all of the above. i have traveled in my made in toledo union made jeep and seen wind turbines. we have one of the greatest solar centers in toledo. we really do have all of the above. but here is the thing, your question, connected to mr. allen's question about the dark money. the fact is, the koch brothers, a huge behemoth corporation, mostly in energy companies, owns the republican party lock stock and barrel.

99% of scientists say, most of the world's countries say that climate change is a real threat. look at the weather patterns recently. you don't have to have great insight to see what it is doing to the planet. the cost it brings to the federal government and those communities that get hit with wildfires and hurricanes and tornadoes. congress will not do anything because they are handcuffed why -- by special interest money. moderator: congressman? rep. renacci: my opponent continues to go back to special interest money and seems to want to disregard the $27 million he is gone from environmental groups. i want to make sure ohio is first all the time. i want to make sure the coal industry is growing. clean coal. i want to make sure the oil and gas industry is booming. i don't want ohioans to have extra cost in their electricity because his especial interest

-- because his special interest groups want him to ban coal and oil and gas. he wants to talk about the koch brothers, he should talk about those donating to him. moderator: mike thompson now. >> the federal gas tax stands at $.18 per gallon. the tax on diesel fuel is $.24. it has not been raised since 1993, and because of inflation, that money can basically purchase half of what it did then. cars and trucks are more efficient which means less gas tax money as well. with roads and bridges and highways in need of repair, would you support increasing the gas tax, and should more the tax money go to pay for mast ranjit -- mass transit, which would lessen the burden on roads and highways? sen. brown: the congressman has sponsored a bill to increase the gas tax, which attacks mostly on middle-class ohioans. this is that the same time he votes to give tax cuts to the wealthiest people. i have said this before but is important to keep thinking

about. three fourths of the benefit in that tax bill, more than three quarters, went to the wealthiest 1%. people like the congressman, and then he turned around and wants to raise the gas tax. i have come up with a plan with five other senators, similar to what the president campaigned on and has not really moved on yet, and infrastructure plan paid for by closing tax loopholes and investing in our communities. it is clear that the state government, correct as it is, -- corrupt as it is, has failed taking care of highways and bridges, our roads and water and sewer systems and airports. we need an investment in infrastructure but you don't do it by taxing working families. you do it by closing loopholes. if you shut down production in cities and move overseas, you can collect a tax break. close loopholes and invest that in infrastructure. don't give the break to the

people who have abused the system in the past. rep. renacci: i wish the senator would have read my tax bill. what it actually said is we need to put an inflation factor on the gas tax. it amounted to less than one penny. then we need to force congress to come up with a plan and forced them to do it. the problem is, the senator has been around 25 years and the problem continues to grow and every child born in columbus hospitals today is going to pay for the problem that he is allowing to occur. we need to make sure -- we had a hearing in the house. they said, we need a user fee. there are only so many kind of user fees. gas tax, miles driven, weight, and tolls. everyone on the panel, republicans and democrats, agreed that we need to have a fee that works and protect our children and grandchildren. we should be paying for the roads we are using. my bill was forcing congress to

do something, and gave them four years. that is the difference. moderator: thank you. i'm sorry -- sen. brown: the congressman continues to talk about the federal budget deficit. he was one of the architects of the tax cut that rewarded corporate executives and gave us a 50% off coupon to companies that moved overseas, they save 50% of the gas tax. it blew a hole in the federal budget deficit. the leaders in congress, his leaders, want to close that budget deficit by cutting medicare and social security. i think it is bad economics and wrong. moderator: now a question from mark allen.

>> congressman, there was a time, and it seems like a long time ago now, when compromise was not a dirty word in washington, d.c. rather, it used to be the way things actually got done. in this day of great partisanship, little trust and middle ground, how can congress do the work that the voters, your employers, elected you to do? rep. renacci: thank you for the question. when i first went to washington -- i had no plans to go to washington, i went there because my car dealership was taken away from me. in the first hearing, iso -- i saw republicans and democrats going at each other. i said, why are we doing this? i want to listen to witnesses and move forward. at the end of the hearing, a gentleman from the other side walked over, from delaware, and said i appreciate what you did and so many other democrats appreciate what you did, let's have breakfast.

that has turned into a weekly bipartisan breakfast. i am one of the most bipartisan members of congress. every bill, i try to bring a democrat on board by compromising. you don't have to compromise your values to get things done. i'm proud of their group has gotten over 15 bills through the house, and seven passed by the house and senate and signed on by the president. these are the ways we need to work together. the real problem is, when someone like my opponent gets to washington and is therefore -- there for 20-30 years, his allegiance is more to the party and his leader, and that's when we don't get things done. what i found out, even in my bipartisan group with even the senior members used to say, this is a good idea but i can do it -- i can't do it because nancy pelosi is against me doing it. that is a problem. i have shown leadership, i will do that in the senate as well. i believe that will be the first

thing i do, the fine people on -- try to find people on the other side i can start having breakfast with as well. sen. brown: the congressman will always show up to eat and talk about bipartisanship, that let's -- but let's look at what we actually do. i am the first senator in ohio in 50 years to serve on agriculture committee. i grew up milking cows, 60 miles from where we stand. i went to work on the farm bill. it is a family farm bill, a conservation bill, a rural development bill and a nutrition bill. i worked with senator grassley and senator ernst, republicans from iowa, senator thune, republicans from south dakota, we crafted a bill that got 86 votes out of 98 and two senators were absent. more votes than ever passed in support of a farm bill. then it went to the house and they passed a bipartisan bill.

we do it in the senate. i know how to work in congress. i passed bills with senator mccain. i can go up and down the list of how many republican senators i've cosponsored with. only three senators did more bills than i did have become law. that tells you something about bipartisanship. rep. renacci: my opponent likes to talk about the bills he does, i get that. the sad thing, it is more about the bills you get accomplished. i have done more in my short term in congress than he has in 25 years. the real issue is when he talks about farmers. i don't understand -- you can put a bill up every day but one farmer said they are tardive -- tired of regulations, tired of the water bill, tired of the attack when they have to pay a death tax. these are the things i will stand up for, to make sure ohio is first, not washington first. moderator: i believe you have a

follow-up. >> that all sounds great, and with due respect, and i'm trying to think about what the voters would say if they were sitting in my seat, the most recent example we saw was the kavanaugh hearings. none of us have ever seen anything like it. i can't think of this country being any more divided than we appeared to be watching that play out on national television. why are the voters to believe it gets any better? how does it get better? what is the first step and who makes the first up? -- the first step? rep. renacci: look, i will tell you right now, the senate hearing was a travesty. you had senators who already agreed to vote no causing all these issues. then they take a guy with unsubstantiated claims and say he can't serve. these are the kind of problems, you want to fix it, you need to get term limits in place and eliminate people who are around 25 years like my opponent, so we

can start having people who will represent ohio, not special interests and not the democratic party or chuck schumer. sen. brown: [sigh] i have heard the congressman say over and over how much he hates washington, and that is fine. i think it's because he went there for the wrong reasons. he was a millionaire upset about his car dealership and he went to washington, he said that, and he fought to help millionaires and billionaires. i went to washington many years ago, i acknowledge, to fight for health care. i paid my own health insurance until congress passed universal health care. i paid my own health insurance for more than a decade. i don't own any corporate stocks, we don't buy corporate stocks because i am the senior democrat on the banking committee and i think it is a conflict of interest. if you can get the concepts of interest out of congress, it would be a whole lot better

place. >> senator brown, president trump called this midterm election a referendum on him. do you agree? sen. brown: i don't. i don't engage in political punditry. i work hard to serve my constituents and don't really care if it is good or bad for trump. i've worked with presidents from both parties when it comes to trade agreements. i oppose nafta, i opposed be a dear, i'm working with his president, with whom i disagree most of the time. i am working with him on renegotiation of nafta and tariffs and trade issues. i run for office standing on my record. i wake up every day figuring had -- how do i fight for ohio workers regardless of whether they work in an office, a school, a factory, construction site, or in a factory.

i make those calls based on what i think is good for ohio. i know president trump carried this state twice. i will continue to work to earn that trust. rep. renacci: i think in the last election in 2016, there was a referendum on what is going on in washington, and that's why president trump did win. people were starting to realize they were being forgotten, even though senator brown talks about how he is working for most -- for those people. it seems like ohio has rejected that. the senator traveled all over the state of ohio with hillary clinton saying hillary clinton is for the working family and will protect your wages. in the end, hillary was going to bankrupt the coal industry, the ohio coal industry. 2016 was a referendum, and that's why hillary clinton lost, who senator brown said he was so sorry to see that happen. i think ohioans have understand

-- have understood that doing the same thing over and over again, electing the same people over and over again, does not mean the senator is representing ohio. i will always support ohio first. sen. brown: i see a congress that continues to weigh in on the side of corporations and wall street over consumers. whether it is the supreme court nomination, whether it is the senate leadership that wrote a tax bill that overwhelmingly gave special interests money. whether it is energy policy or health-care legislation. the drug companies get away with murder in this state, frankly, with the prices they charge. whether it is prescription drug consumers or financial services consumers, the government has sold them out. moderator: that was our final panelist question and we begin closing statements now. rep. renacci: i want to thank the debate commission and

channel five, and the moderators tonight as well. in 1997, a united states congressman said the biggest problem of ohioans have is they send people to washington, they spend 20-30 years there and forget ohio. that congressman was sherrod brown. he has forgotten about ohioans. he votes 96% of the time with chuck schumer. that does not represent ohio. he votes 94% of the time with elizabeth warren. that does not represent ohio. he supports sanctuary cities. that does not represent ohio. he votes for partial-birth abortions. ohioans do not believe in that. in 2016, he supported hillary clinton, who wanted to bankrupt the coal industry. as your senator, i will always think of ohio first. i will make sure i get up every

day and want to continue the growth of 4.3%, continue the job growth we are experiencing in the state. i want to make sure that ohio is the place it was when i came here and started my first business. i want to make sure the 53 employees that senator brown forgot about at my dealership, that i will protect them. i want to support ohio first and make sure i support ohioans. i hope on november 6, i can earn your vote. sen. brown: when you love your country, you fight for the people who make it work. i get up every day ready to make that fight for all of ohio workers, whether you punch a clock, swiped a batch, whether you work for tips, salary, whether you are raising cchildren or caring for an aging adult. i hear repeatedly that people are squeezed. i hear in the grocery store, when i pick up a prescription, i

hear it factories and office buildings, where people think the government is rated against -- rigged against them. they see businesses shutdown and move overseas, build a factory, and collect a tax break. they see a government that congress rams through a special interest tax bill where the money goes to billionaires and millionaires, but then they see congressional leadership saying we have to pay for that tax cut for the rich by cutting medicare and social security. people are angry about that for a reason. they see special interest groups have lobbyists and loopholes and there's not much left for working families in the middle class. washington doesn't really understand the dignity of work. i do. i think if people get up and play by the rules, they should be able to get ahead. if people work all their lives and try to save for their retirement and contribute to the community, he should have a safe -- they should have a safe and secure retirement. i want your hard work to be

rewarded so people can have higher wages and better health care and a secure retirement, protecting medicare and medicaid. that's why i ask for your vote. thank you. moderator: we want to say thank you to both of you for being with us, and we thank you for joining us tonight. this was the second of three debates between the two major party candidates for the united states senate, democrat sherrod brown, and republican jim renacci. the final debate is this coming friday. it's october 26 at miami university in oxford. thank you to our panelists for being with us, thank you to the ohio debate commission, and all of you for joining us tonight. have a good evening. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> with midterm elections just days away, watch the competition on the control of congress c-span. see for yourself the candidates and debates from key house and senate races. take c-span your primary source for campaign 2018. today, a debate in the race for the u.s. senate seat in massachusetts between the income it democratic senator elizabeth warren and republican challenger jeff deal. starts at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span. with 16 days until the election, make c-span your primary source for campaign 2018. tonight on c-span skewing day talks aboutd paul his biography of chief justice

john marshall. >> john marshall is a legacy, obscured by a single opinion in marbury versus madison. that is what he is known for. was act is john marshall soldier in the revolutionary important.s very he served at valley forge. use a leading figure in the virginia house of delegates and an indispensable man and the ratification debates. he was the guy who persuaded the majority of virginia and delegates to go along with ratifying the constitution appears ratifying -- ratifying the constitution. all of those other contributions that he has made as a founding get forgotten because of

the significance of his one decision in marbury versus madison. >> tonight at 80 eastern on c-span's q&a. now, former vice president joe biden in las vegas for a campaign rally the porting u.s. senate candidate democratic representative jacky rosen. we begin with remarks from the congresswoman paired this is 35 minutes. >>