c-span's washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impacting. coming up sunday morning, the christian science monitor's and emily of the washington examiner discussed the political fallout from the release of the redacted mueller report. the group right on crime talks about criminal justice reform and reentry for ex-convicts. be sure to watch washington journal live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on sunday morning. >> now washington post and reporters without borders present the 2019 world press freedom index, a report that examines press freedom around the world. than journalists and foreign diplomats discuss the findings. this is one hour. >> good morning everyone. welcome to the washington post.

mym publisher and it is pleasure to thank you for joining us for this important discussion on press freedom around the world. every year, reporters without borders, the world's largest nongovernmental organization devoted to protecting the rights of journalists, compiles the world press freedom index. as you know, this report is a massive undertaking, presents exhaustive research into the media environment of 180 different countries. among the index's many valuable features is its indication of important changes and trends, raising alarm where press freedom is in decline and acknowledging areas of improvement. sadly, as we know too well, this is a time of growing danger for journalism. as the report indicates, journalists around the world are encountering censorship, harassment, violence every day just for doing their jobs. in every region of the world, tyrants are increasing their grip on the press, trying to prevent reporters from holding

the powerful to account. this year's index highlights a particularly disturbing trend in the americas, where many countries have seen declines in the press freedom rankings, including the united states. at "the washington post," we take the cause of press freedom seriously. we are no strangers to assault on journalists as we've seen in andcases of jason, austin, tragically jamal khashoggi. these attacks have been an agonizing reminder of the dangers journalists face. through the washington post press freedom partnership through an announcement we made last year we've made a sustained long-term commitment of raising awareness of cases like these. these abuses are unacceptable to everyone who appreciates democratic values and human rights. free societies rely on the free flow of information which citizens need to make the most important decisions.

how to vote, where to invest, where to travel, whom to trust. to make these decisions, we need accurate information, not only about our country, but others around the world. in this way an attack against a journalist everywhere is an assault on liberty everywhere. today's event features several accomplished journalists on the front lines of the fight for journalistic independence, as well as scholars on the first amendment and other experts on press freedom. we're also fortunate to be joined by people who have a positive story to tell. "the washington post's" dana will moderate a discussion with the ambassador from ethiopia, moving up 40 spaces on the list. and the ambassador of sweden, which consistently ranks high on the index of press freedom. they'll share some lessons about their country's success in fostering safer environments for journalists. in a few moments, we will

release the 2019 index and discussed its findings. before we begin, i'd like to thank reporters without borders for partnering with us on today's event, as well as the northwestern university school of journalism. we will begin today's program with a video featuring filipino journalist who was recently arrested by the government of filipino strongmen rodrigo duterte. maria was released from jail and has a timely message about the importance of press freedom around the world. >> good morning, i'm maria. thank you so much for listening to our story. we know journalists are under attack globally and the attacks are coming, enabled by technology, through social media, bottom up. a lie told a million times is the truth. with topsandwiches us down statements by authoritarian style leaders attacking not just

our work, but us. we have seen armies rolling back democracy around the world. i've been a journalist more than 30 years and never seen a year like 2018. in a little more than 14 months, the filipino government filed 11 cases against me. i've posted bail eight times and still didn't arrested twice, detained once, all of this to try to intimidate us to silence. how do we fight back? with the facts. with data. that gives us the grounding to be able to push back and demand our rights. the world press freedom index is a global thermometer how do we -- thermometer of the state of the battle. where are we winning? where are we losing? how do we fight back? you in the room today, my survival depends on your attention. the way we fight back as journalists, is we shine the light. we call attention, we demand our

rights. please join us in this battle. >> [applause] >> hello, i'm mary jordan, i'm a national correspondent for "the washington post" and spent many, many years running around the world as a foreign correspondent. i'm delighted this morning to introduce our guest, sabine dolan, the executive director of reporters without borders, she's going to talk to us about the 2019 report on world press freedom. and what this index is, looked at 180 countries around the world and said, how do they rank when you look at the ability of the press to give information to the public? now, let's take a look. right at the top of the list, not a huge surprise, norway, finland, sweden. consistently up there, why is that?

>> these are our kind of index olympians. they typically hold the top spots of our index. and press freedoms are a longstanding tradition in these countries. it is reflected in their constitution and shared values, cultural values. you may remember when president trump was visiting helsinki in july, 2018, there were billboards from the airport to the city that said, welcome, mr. president, to the land of the free press. >> wow. more on that later. [laughter] let's take a look at the bottom of the list. eritrea, north korea, turkmenistan right there at the bottom of 180 countries. tell us about it. >> we have nicknamed them the infernal trio. this is because these countries

have held the bottom spots for many years. they're essentially information black holes. turkmenistan this year was dropped to the last position. this is a reflection of the violent crackdown on the few remaining independent journalists reporting clandestinely, and north korea, which has often been at the last position, went up by one position this year just to reflect kim jong-un's openness or just a little bit of progress in the openness through his meetings with foreign leaders. >> but you see in these countries that people often have to go to the border to try to get information coming in from airwaves, from outside of the borders, complete black hole. how about the united states? what's the news this year? >> well, the united states dropped three positions this year, and for the first time, its ranking has been downgraded from satisfactory to problematic

and this in the country of the first amendment. you know, there was, obviously, the tragic news room shooting of four journalists and a member of staff at the capitol gazette in annapolis. the president's anti-press, relentless anti-press rhetoric has also contributed to the climate. >> when you have the president of the united states calling the journalists the enemy of the people, do you think you're seeing that it matters? >> i think that when this becomes constant, it's almost normalized and percolates to a large segment of the population and this is how it's contributed to create this climate of fear for journalists, which is the theme of this year's index. >> the problematic state. it's actually quite surprising that it's-- it was even 45 last year. had it dropped last year from

before? >> yes, it had. so, it's been gradually dropping. >> it was 43 in 2017, 45 in 2018 and now this year it's 48. >> what does that mean for the american public? >> well, i think this has-- this has an impact on all of us, even in terms of information and access to information, which is a backbone of democracy. so, this has-- this is significant. you know, america was always seen as the beacon of press freedom, not only here, but around the world. this has also had negative repercussions in different countries, especially if you think of the labeling of fake news, which has been used in authoritarian regimes around the world. from the philippines, we just saw maria speak, from putin in

russia -- >> i've certainly seen that working in other countries, in asia. journalists would come up and say, i can't publish this, but if "the washington post" does, then we can say "the washington post" published these things. and i know firsthand and in my bones how we have really been a beacon at the american press for other countries, so it's stunning to see that we're so low in the pack. let's go back to the world index, your report. numbers are kind of stunning. how many journalists were killed last year? >> yeah, well, last year, we had 80 journalists who were killed across the world, 348 were detained and 60 were held hostages. >> so right as we speak, there's-- there are over 300 journalists in jail for writing something.

it's a stunning and important figure and we're grateful that all of you showed up today because it's, you know, it's the fourth estate to keep checks and balances on the other branches of power, as famously said that power corrupts and absolutely power is absolutely corrupting. let's look at some of the other headlines. when you look at the world map there, we saw black spaces, and in fact, many of the places here that have the worst records have have dictators basically running the show, is that right? tell us about the worst places in the world. >> you see this -- the black zone. the middle east and north africa are the most dangerous places to be a journalist. so they are -- they hold the last place in our index. this is due in large part to the wars in the region, but also to

authoritarian leaders crashing at the arab spring a few years a few years ago. outside these black zones, you have other countries like venezuela, which has also this by theen affected by authoritarian regime of president maduro. ms. jordan: tanzania dropped 25, , a leader 24, down cracking down on the press, hungary, also bad news. nicaragua saw the

steepest fall in the americas this year. there has been a big crackdown in nicaragua on independent media, journalists were considered the opposition and someattacked, there were journalists jailed on terrorism charges. hungary is another interesting place. controlsister orban the media and critical media are now having difficulties and can't access government officials, press conferences, and this has an effect on their possibility to get funding and advertising. so this is a bleak landscape for europe. ms. jordan: advertisers don't want to be associated with the press, because of government

pressure. how about china and turkey? is dolan: china's model internet control and cyber surveillance, and it is gradually being adopted by neighboring countries, whether you are talking about countries like vietnam or even cambodia, singapore. it is also having an impact as far as africa. -- dolan: ms. jordan: when you say cyber control, what do you mean? controls: the regime all the information that is being communicated, people's access to websites are curtailed . it is censored. ms. dolan: the other element that 60ina is

journalists and bloggers are being detained in horrible conditions. so this is another noteworthy element. there has been some good news. tell us about significant rises. talkingn: we were earlier about this black zone in the middle east and africa, tunisia was an exception and a positive case. this is a reflection of the president's commitment to press freedom. if you look at armenia, they are also in a very bad zone regarding press freedom in our index. armenia has jumped 19 points. these changes that you see are often a reflection of change of government, and this applies to ethiopia. often, one leader in charge can change a country. ms. dolan: exactly, and this was the case in ethiopia, which

jumped 40 points. ms. jordan: 40 points. it is nice to have some good news. we are going to bring on the next panel that is going to talk further about the good news, and then come back with another discussion. before we leave the stage, when you look at the index for 2019, what is the state of journalism around the world? the theme this year is fear, and the state of journalism, press freedoms around the world are declining, and this is a matter of grave concern to us. it is declining all over the world, but also in the traditional press-freedom allies, if you want, countries in europe and countries like the united states. picture.n: a troubling thank you, very much. we will go to good news about people doing right and then come back and talk about the way

forward. thanks very much. [applause] ♪ i think all journalists are in the same boat. we all have to call for democracy and act as activists for democracy, until we have democracy in every environment. one of the world's worst jailers of journalists. ♪

ms. priest: welcome. i'm dana priest. i have been at "the washington post" for half my life, and i also teach journalism at the university of maryland. it has allowed me to understand how bad parts of the world are. today we have a mixed group, we are calling them the pre-dealer report, and if you stick around long enough we might release the report for you leave. i would like to introduce vastly ambassador

, the ambassador from ethiopia, one of the countries that has made the biggest improvements in the past year or jaffer, then jameel executive director of the new first amendment institute at columbia university, and a long time with the aclu. welcome, everybody. with theto start ambassador from ethiopia, ethiopia for the first time in years has no journalists in prison, it has unlocked most of its previously blocked sites, isch is hundreds, and it allowing now bloggers and non-governmental journalists to report, so aside from tunisia it is probably the brightest light in the world right now.

i want to applaud you for that. [applause] we were speaking on the phone about capacity building being in need right now. can you talk more about that. >> i'm delighted to be here. this is my third week as ambassador. [laughter] a reformist prime minister. i have seen, i'm a witness to what he has been doing since he came to power in 2018. it took him just 100 days to reverse some of the challenges, human rights issues, press criticizedat we were for so long by the human rights watch dogs and different

international media. i think he is now taking us in the right direction. he has been championing everything through due process .f law we had a serious problem as far as democracy, so it is part of the democratic process we have, and also freedom of press is the main one to deepen our democracy. journalists were not free in and we need capacity building in terms of how to use the press responsibly, and at balance.time how to

and also, the people at large were not aware of how to howrstand however thing -- everything comes out of the media. they get easily confused. in countries where you have a stable democracy, you judge what is in it, you take a second opinion, but that is not the case in ethiopia. i think it relates to the and it takes time to trickle down to the community, the society. education is also very important, and also press freedom. so we need capacity building in delivering the news, creating different

we are exposedss to different environments, , therewe get a chance are no other shortcuts to get to what is to be. so there are many areas. -- many areas that we need to improve. ms. priest: have you had discussions with facebook about trying to tamp down hate speech, which is not a problem just in ethiopia, but every country now? facebook hasega: created a wonderful platform for people like in ethiopia, because it is an easy infrastructure and medium of transforming them and

passing information, that is highly welcomed. but the negative side of social media like facebook and others, they are faceless people who can say anything they want, hate speech that incites violence, and in some cases they take it create conflicts and that creates which may grow alarming. so i don't think the western countries have money to deal with this, i think it is a challenge for everyone. but the way the western , in ethiopia it

is totally different. so yes, it is important to regulate, but how? speech laws are seen as silencing dissent. we had some challenges in the past like an antiterrorism law, as ourally repealed other laws. so it is under discussion whether we have to have a hate speech law, what is the best practice, and how we can narrowly enact it so that it doesn't silence dissent and discourage the free press. don't want to get back to where we were, we are enjoying what we have, we want to

continue to deepen our democracy. ms. priest: luckily we have the leader of the wheeled -- the leader of the world. how do you deal with it? have been dealing with it for 150 years, that is one of the reasons we have been ranked so highly, it has been part of our culture, access to information from the public, and we also have a whistleblower function where government officials like myself cannot get prosecuted if we give information to the media, not under national security but under everything else. this builds trust in society, where we always scrutinize our public officials. we are one of the least corrupt countries in the world and one of the most innovative in the world, so it goes together, democracy and economy, and how a country can prosper if you have the proper institutions, if you are really going the way you are

you in sos will help many ways, both democracy and economically. we are challenged as well and have put in large efforts to educate our public, a new program for schools, how we teach kids to be media literate .- we have public schools with the same curriculum, basically. on theeally need to work conflict because we have a new environment in social media and we need to train kids to be aware of what is really was and what is not real news, and how you learn. foruse it is very difficult adults, and kids now are so know much they more than we do, but it is something we constantly need to work on.

you it is maybe more important to do that. do you regulate social media or do you rely on media literacy? ambassador olofsdotter: we have legislation, but that is the same legislation for all media. it is the technology that is different, but not the content, so the legislation doesn't look at the technology. there have been discussions here and elsewhere about rules regulating media. we basically have the first amendment. that is not regulated. but scandinavia, all three countries i believe, have a media regulator of some sort. ambassador olofsdotter: there is an agency that, if you feel you , you can mis-portrayed go to that agency and the

journalist or the media outlet can be, how do you say, judged determinedf it is that they have been slanting. ms. priest: is that a government panel? ambassador olofsdotter: it isn't sort of away, it is funded through the government but is independent like all our judicial. scal --st: that would that would still be a scary thought here. called trollogram hunters. had, like the program we find a predator, it is find a troll. a person figures it out and they go with the camera and confront them. so troll hunting is something you have been doing for a while? ambassador olofsdotter: no, it is fairly new, actually. i think it is important we show this through public media, who

they are and how they operate. and this is part of learning about the system. w -- what is a troll, where they come from? and what is our understanding of it? it is good to have a troll-hunting program so you can learn from it because for most of us, it is quite hard to understand how it operates. the swedishwe have ambassador here, we want to talk about julian sancho overlaps in both the -- julian assange, who overlaps in both these areas, possible extradition back to sweden, we will talk about that, but what is your take on the arrest, the indictment, and how it played out here in the united states vis-a-vis its implications for press freedom here? mr. jaffer: i should start --

should start by saying the violation was for a hacking statute. there is no argument here that the hacking was constitutionally protected, so that charges themselves in my view don't raise constitutional concerns. the indictment is much broader than the charges. the indictment lists the means and manner of the conspiracy, many things that legitimate journalists and engage in every day, protecting the identity of a source, communicating securely with a source, those kinds of things are presented as evidence of a criminal conspiracy. theindictment quite -- indictment is quite short but 90% of it is about things legitimate journalists do every day. so much attention is given to those things that it is very hard for a reader not to come away with the impression that the justice department believes that those things are

problematic. guess i am sort of conflicted about the charges. i don't find the charges themselves problematic, but the indictment is quite scary and i think that any journalist who ,eads that indictment especially investigative journalists who work on national security issues, there is no way to do that kind of journalism without doing the very things that the justice department is describing as part of a criminal conspiracy. and we see that indictment against a background in which the administration, the trump administration here, has stepped ,p leak investigations stigmatizes two week of a word, but stigmatizing whistleblowers, has made clear the administration will go after journalists who publish classified information, or suggested the administration will go after journalists who

publish classified information. so especially against that background, i think this indictment is very worrying. ms. priest: you say it is constitutionally protected, which means you would put julian assange in the category of journalist or publisher? you don't need to believe julian assad is a journalist to be worried about this indictment. the supreme court here has never distinguished journalists from everybody else in terms of the get under theple first amendment. the protections are the same. so there is really no legal relevance to this question of whether julian assange is a journalist. i'm not saying it is not a topic of debate but it doesn't have legal relevance. and the indictment doesn't turn on the fact that julian assange is not a journalist. describes all

these things julian assange is alleged to have done, and almost all of those things, not all of them, but almost all of those things are things legitimate journalists do every day. ms. priest: i wanted to talk and wehe khashoggi case, talked a little bit about the responsibility to warn. that brings in a possible u.s. -- well, you tell them what it is. mr. jaffer: as all of us know, a saudiashoggi was national, a u.s. resident, a "washington post" journalist who was murdered at the saudi embassy in istanbul last year. and we might have expected the thisd states to callout

out thise grim -- call act as the criminal act that it was. in fact, the trump administration has been very enthusiastic about participating in what looks like the cover-up of a killing. one story i think hasn't gotten enough attention is the duty to warn, which is a duty u.s. intelligence agencies have recognized. if they intercept or acquire evidence that there is a threat to somebody's life or liberty in the course of surveillance, if they are engaged in national security and vale -- national security surveillance at they run across something that a journalist is under threat to their life or liberty, they have an obligation to alert that journalist to the threat. knight institute and the committee to protect journalists have been litigating for the release of records relating to the duty to warn, because we want to know, what

did u.s. intelligence agencies know before the killing about oggi, andt to khash if they did know something about the threat to his life, what did they do about it? the intelligence agencies for the most part have stonewalled that request, refusing to confirm or deny even the existence of records responsive to the request. i find that very troubling. the united states, on this kind of issue, should be at the opposite end of the pole from where we are. we should be calling for accountability, demanding a credible investigation, a transparent an investigation -- a transparent investigation, and instead the most senior american officials are effectively participating in the cover-up. ms. priest: since we mentioned julian assange, is there an update on whether sweden is

considering extradition? ambassador olofsdotter: the prosecutor's agency is looking into the case again, to see if there is a case or not and ask for extradition from the united kingdom. . rape.legation is .hey are looking into it again it is a pre-study to a case know, so i guess we will in a couple of weeks. i would like to ask about whether the environment in the united states, especially at the top vis-a-vis's press freedom and embracing it as an important part of democracy, does that resonate in any way, positive or negative, in ethiopia? you have aarega:

strong institution which helps to balance whatever and wetration comes in, are looking to how we could have such a strong institution, so whoever comes, that is how i see it. ms. priest: thank you all, for being here, and thank you for coming. our next panel will follow us in just a minute. we decided not to release the mueller report. [laughter] you will just have to wait. stay in your chairs. thank you. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ i remember all those women we met who told us their stories, who told us there horror. it was unbelievable.

>> every time i went public and told about my investigation, they made new, smearing stories and attacked me viciously, just to show me that they were following me, and that they would retaliate any time i would publish a new piece. >> i reported in countries where leaders not only complained about the critical press, but tried to shut it down, throwing reporters in prison or worse. as long as american democracy remains healthy, there will be reporters willing to pursue the truth, even if that means incurring the wrath of the most powerful person in the world. ♪ important topics this morning, freedom of the press, freedom of the press to bring information to the public. i am mary jordan, national correspondent for "the washington post," delighted to

introduce our guests. we have an award-winning investigative reporter who works finnishfinish -- broadcasting company and will tell us what she has had to endure to write about the russian propaganda machine. guest who is a legendary radio correspondent in the congo. for 20 years she has been talking about something once unmentionable, rape as a weapon of war. she has been doing it since 1998 against all kinds of odds and death threats. could not be here this morning because of a busy news cycle, but we are delighted to have bill plante here. bill is well known, a thoughtful person who has actually been writing about washington politics since nixon's campaign,

and has a great perspective. i want to start with bill. where theu make of u.s. is, and it's drop in the index? mr. plante: previous presidents have always tried to steer news coverage and limit press access. now we have a president to actually threatens press freedom. so we are in a very dangerous place, and i'm not at all surprised given his influence, that the u.s. dropped in the index this year. could you see this coming, was that inevitable? was it really changed by the person in the white house or is it something that you have seen coming for decades? claimante: whether you this president depends i suppose on your own political inclinations, but what he has done is to legitimize worldwide

this business of beating up on the press and threatening. and here is the president to actively said, it is frankly disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. excuse me? 1 [laughter] we do have the first amendment here which is either unaware or uncaring. ms. jordan: jessica appeared you are based in helsinki, is that right? >> yes. ms. jordan: you've done heroic work talking about what is going on in russia. can you just tell us what happened to you when you started writing these critical stories from russia? what happened? definitely. thank you for the good feedback. it gives me going. and 2013 i started to social mediahe propaganda trials spending

prudence messages internationally. i wanted to find out specifically how did this information by putin's regime in impact people's ideas come up attitudes come and picture. that was my core interest. targetade a smearing first in russia and it spread almost to 10 different sites saying i am not a journalist at all, instead i am eight they missed assistant of nato and american celtic security systems is. ms. jordan: so let's go back this is 2013. before the election. so, to discredit you they were saying you are an agent of the united states. because there's nothing worse to be said. the on that, how did it affect you?

it was even worse. they can't do every name in the book, demeaned you. did it make it hard to work? jessica: of course. that was their whole point as they continued. they were smearing the campaign for example hit today, i believe about 250 fake news stories only one program on, pro-racist in finish. then there are all the other fake news and they claim i am a criminal, a drug dealer, mentally disabled, and they have --e up the whole troll mode troll ordeal. it translates real people into hating me. friends.les, my former someone who knows me from history, they start to hate me as well. is where heso this gets scary. this is where it works, right?

you say something often enough and people think it is true. why thishe sad fact of index is so important that we take a look, take a breath, and figure out where we go from here. i want to talk to you now. what an amazing story it you have to tell. radio,u went on the graphically explaining something people were not supposed to -- it was taboo to talk about this. that women were getting raped by malicious, what happened to you? click thank you very much really wasn't easy. in 9096 --the time 1996 after the operate of the nobody talked about rape or sexual violence. the second war was in 1998. there was silence. started some women

sexualing the rape and violence. i remember when they wanted to talk about it on the radio, we didn't even have a word to talk about it. ms. jordan: because it was so socially taboo to say? chouchou: yes. we try to look at a local languages like swahili, from the buto, or local averages, there was an explanation of the phenomenon. the, we had to borrow a word we had to tellnd people about it. testimony we brought from women who were raped, it was a shock in the community. people called us and said how

are you talking about sex on the radio? it's not a problem that sex, it's a problem about community. the woman explains how she was raped, how after the rape she got tortured, they put on branches in her vagina. she explained everything and people were shocked. ms. jordan: and of course, by writing about the problem, you bring eyes onto the problem in realize this to wasn't just in your country, but many countries. so, the effect is clear. but what happened to you personally since we're talking about the courage it takes these days to write things? what did you endure? chouchou: i quickly realized was a weaponophone also, to fight the phenomenon. really come at that time we started giving our microphone to women to tell their stories.

results decoded a silent war. quickly my colleagues we turned our microphone to women. we became the loudspeaker of these women and we denounced it. ms. jordan: did you have the same experience as jessikka that some of your friends at why are you doing that? chouchou: yes. sometimes it was crazy. what are you talking about? the shame. it's a shame even for women. you're highlighting the problem of women argue should not talk about the spirit we said no, we have to talk about it here we have to act. so, we led a campaign call challenge the silence. we went to the national criminal court and we had such

opportunities to testify and to bring the spotlight on the problem. and women, were really sensitized. the survivors were rejected by the families. they were stigmatized. but they had to train even their family to accept them. ms. jordan: i want to ask you at them come back to bill, for 15 years i was a correspondent around the world. many times, i have felt very proud that other countries would say oh, you are from the washington post and you can do anything or you have such freedom. and they were kind of -- gosh i could -- gosh i wish i could work there. these days, as we drop into the problematic area or press freedom, have you noticed in your -- in the last year's from other countries looking at the

states, they save a problem here? we are seeing a problem that is coming from your presidential leadership. [laughter] against the press at the moment. what, we are also seeing that the drawings that you are doing -- the journalism you are doing is very brave. it is very expert. you still show a lot of examples to the rest of the world. so, keep on doing what you are doing. ms. jordan: thank you. and bill, reagan? since reagan you have actually been in the white house. where do you see the country going now as we move to 2020 campaign? bill: it is one thing to steer news coverage by placing things out there for leaking certain or trying to avoid coverage of other things. it's entirely another to sayaten reporters and to

that news coverage should not be allowed. supplement the only weapon we have is truth. the problem is in today's media media,ment, with social we could be overwhelmed. we have to come out with more effort than ever to get the truth out. i think part of the way to do that is for reporters to avoid expressing their own opinions on social media. i think that is a mistake. because it then does not differentiate reporters from people who are giving opinion. ms. jordan: it feeds right into it appeared anything else that to tryrs should be doing to move up on this index? what do we need to do ourselves? i know what other people need to do but we have control about what we can be doing. bill: part of it is making sure that the united states toernment doesn't move

suppress press freedom in any way. there is danger lurking out there in today's world which we have discussed at length here. we don't know what they would do if they could, but this president always a suggest that it would be a good idea if we "fake news."o much most of which is not fake. and to pick well. there is a much noise, so much going on out there. one of the things alleged journalists talk about is to keep your eye on the ball on the big things. -- people are overwhelmed by the amount of information. some very disturbing thing happened to you. is oner efforts, russia of the most dangerous places to work. people get killed. story andarly on this you won lots of awards.

including, he picked up the phone and heard you want one from the state department. that was a fairly big deal. whoops,, you were told the state department pulled her itrd and some people think may have had to do with the fact that you were critical of donald trump. what do you think? [laughter] jessikka: i still feel like a winner because i have the award for a while before it was canceled for me without any official documentation or expedition. ms. jordan: what did they say? jessikka: they just said it is canceled. and then i read from the foreign policy that anonymous officials from the state department told that it was due to my critical tweets. senatee democrats at the

committee of foreign relations started to look into it and they made their own investigation and aty found out that it indeed the state department spokesperson said publicly and he said that it was a mistake and that to the award was never ,iven to me and the first place that certainly was not based on documentation. ms. jordan: it's a fairly minor think that you were saying about trolling or to basically said that he was trolling. bill, you have seen leaders. they have been criticizing leaders is not something that is his new is that if you criticize some people, they immediately they demean you, they discredit you or say it is just not true. and: the state department administration seem to go out of their way to say this didn't happen. in other words, they are denying

that there was any political influence. i covered white house is for 30 years. i never saw a decision that didn't have at least some consideration of politics when it was made. certainly this reeks of that. ms. jordan: what is at the heart of this is when a leader is criticized, they go after the journalist. in our country, we have a long history -- think of vogel's names that we have called different presidents over time. why is it so different now? had anichard nixon enemies list. on that list were a number of journalists as well as other members of the opposition party. but he did do anything to restrict their ability to work. that is how times have changed. is the tension

between the four pillars, right? morning abouthole when you diminish the power of one and the power of others rise. it's a bit scary here. u, congo is at 117. not a good spot. even now it is difficult there. what are the challenges for journalists in the congo? chouchou: the daily work of the journalist is released challenge. they are arrested on a daily norm. for defamation, like when you criticize in authority, journalists are jailed for that.

they are jailed for leading investigation on sensitive matters. journalist, when we make an investigation about rape and sexual violence used as a weapon of war, it's a sensitive matter. so, we received threats to be killed, to be kidnapped, to be raped. really, i remember in 2009 my called a dangerous place to live as a journalist. ms. jordan: it's so interesting when you look at the index, that inending on the leader certain african countries, some are zooming up and some are trimming down. you were out early. you saw how social media was key into this. key into spreading the word, spreading disinformation. where do you see the state of

the world press going now? as journalists, we need to do investigation. we can cover these topics with international colleagues. we can form networks to cover this. areexample, russian trolls all over the place, not just in finland or the ukraine, but catalonia. they are fueling conflict in france. yournd of course presidential elections. they helped trump to get elected. so, there should be wise to form coalitions to cover this. chouchou: i think it is bill: i think it is also important to encourage the efforts going forward of social media companies. facebook, google, and others to police what is on their networks. -- thennot going to be you hear cries of censorship

right away, but to remove what and incitesfalse violence is not necessarily wrong. which areose efforts, supposedly underway need to be encouraged. basically, all we have is the truth. working to get it out there. thejordan: all we have is truth. this is what this whole day has been about. we started this morning talking get thee battle to truth, fax come information to people so they can make the right decisions. showing up this morning, the people watching online were very grateful to that. along with journalists holding each other to the highest standards. the courage that you have taken and others, i am always

optimistic, but we are really grateful. that is all we have time for today. you can always -- if you want to watch any of the segments, you can go to washington post live .com. you can see the segments. thank you so much. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ,> on newsmakers, matt aisles president and ceo of america's health insurance plans offers and insurance industry active on the care for all, health-care plus and how the affordable care

act could be improved. newsmakers, sunday at 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> it is important that our congress and the members of congress can come together and legislation meaningful and impactful for the people. >> this week on cue and day, high school students from the senate youth program talk about their experience any week in washington. different may be a political party, we are all here because we want to make a utter world for ourselves and the generations after us. >> i think that right now our are very inspiring and we are passionate about our ideals and seeing all of the delegates here. i have confidence in us that we auld come together to reach

consensus that is educated, informed, and crosses party lines. say is that i can especially as i look around me as so many future leaders, so many fellow members of the rising generation is that we are also involved and we care so much. so, if one incredible thing has come from all of this is that we are all awake. >> sunday night at eight eastern on c-span skua day. >> on tuesday, a panel of journalists discuss the relationship between u.s. intelligence community and the press. this event was posted right george mason university. it is an hour and 25 minutes. [applause]