tv Former CIA Director John Brennan on National Security Threats CSPAN December 7, 2020 10:58am-11:55am EST
c-span, the senate live on c-span2. to c-span's podcast "the weekly." our guest is the senate historian emirtius. he discusses the constitutional steps that need to be finalized for press elect biden is sworn in. "the weekly." where you get your podcast spirs. is partxt, john brennan of the discussion on areas the upcoming joe biden administration should focus on. >> good morning everybody in d.c., good evening to nerve korea, welcome. this week on the capital cable,
global threat. the biden-harris transition and the foreign policy environment they'll inherit. tension, issues posed by dprk, china, and interpreting all the signs around the region. our guests this week, john brennan is perfectly positioned to address this critical and evolving set of issues an we are lucky to have him here today. he needs no introduction but let me go through it. former director of c.i.a., former director of -- former principal advisor assistant to the president for counterterrorism and homeland security in the white house to president obama, former director of the national counterterrorism center, career c.i.a. officer, arabic speaker and author of the best-selling and i would add having read it myself, very interesting book "undaunted: my fight against america's enemies at home and abroad," he is someone who sits at the nexus of intelligence, foreign policy, at the white house, abroad and at
langley, also knows a little something about northeast asia, the pride of hudson county, i should also add he holds a master's degree from the university of texas and a b.a. from fordham. the home of the ram, i believe. welcome, mr. brennan. mr. brennan: thank you, it's great to be with you and your audience today. mark: vice dean and professor of georgetown, runs the korea chair at the sis, welcome back, victor. r. cha: thanks mark. mr. lippert: finally, last but not least, former c.i.a., former n.s.c., columbia university, currently senior advisor here at csis and you overlapped with john at c.i.a.
ever see him in the gift shop? is a is a lad bar at the lad bar. is he aware your nickname there was sunesune. >> that was classified information, thanks a lot. mark: ok, let's get into it. mr. brennan, topic one, i'm going to come to you. threat picture and transition. global environment. in the context is your book title -- as your book title underscores, you spent much of your career focused on threats that the united states faces. o can you walk us through your picture, if you will of the threat environment that this incoming administration will face on day one and going forward for the first year or so
as they set intool the administration? john: well, mark, i think the biden-harris administration is going to face many challenges and threats an rifpks -- and risks on day one and throughout the course of the administration. in addition to having to deal with a very, very challenging domestic environment in terms of hyperpartisanship, covid pandemic, as well as the economic dislocation and disruptions associated with that, it's going to inherit a world stage that the united states really needs to deal with from day one. i think they have a number of priorities in order to address the real as well as emerging threats that are out there i think high on the agenda is going to be trying to repair some alliances and partnerships, relationships with united states' traditional allies and partners around the world. the united states strength on that global stage is derived from those relationships that have been built up over the last 75 years.
in addition, i think they're going to try to have a constructive dialogue with both china and russia. these are wig -- big, big countries. the biden administration will have to deal with that day one. they'll have to deal with proliferation matters, specifically iran and north korea. these are issues that i know tony blinken and abe sullivan and other members of the national security team are focused on and will have to deal with early on. also just reasserting the united states' role on that global stage. i think during the trump administration there has been a conscious effort to recede from some of those responsibilities and participate in multilat rare -- multilateral organizations such as the w.h.o. and others. final finally i think it's to deal with some of those more concerning longer term threats that are insidious in tells of the impact on the international stage which is climate change, cyber, other pandemics thatchan.
-- dealing with all these issues simultaneously and ensuring proper a of resources and attention dedicated to all of them, again, domestically as well as internationally. mark: excellent stuff. let me drilled down one level deeper, if you don't mind. we just went through a comprehensive list. anyone of those issues by themselves would be unbelievable -- is unbelievably challenging, but, as you mention, they have this whole panoply ahead of them and they have to make some decisions in terms of how to resource allocation. in your role at the white house where you have to straddle the two sides between the domestic and international, and or your agency hat, where you were involved in policymaking --
obviously, you were in the intelligence side not the policy side, but how should people think of these priorities? ?here do we allocate mr. brennan: these scarce resources as you and i were both involved, during the first year inthe obama administration 2009, there will be a comprehensive review of all these policy areas so there can be in fact a privatization. one of the things i remember not was we went through just the policy objectives and priorities, but then putting together what is called in national intelligence priority framework, to try to ensure that u.s. intelligence capabilities, whether technical, human, foreign presence can let whatever, were aligned with those priorities. this is a process that takes time. one of the things i am excited about is the revitalization of the agency process that i think
is so necessary in order to come up with wise foreign policy choices. unfortunately, that interagency process appears to have atrophied badly during the trump administration. that process was very important to all previous administrations. i know joe biden, who relied heavily on it and participated in all principal meetings, as well, security council meetings will use the process to come up with a framework and then align resources. mark: one final follow-up more in terms of here at home but obviously with big international implications command the pandemic. perhaps one reason we cited this show is obviously focused on the south koreans -- the south koreans have done a commendable job. numbers are up today, however, a
new measures are being imposed. you had a seat in the white house as a principal advisor on international, global health pandemic issues -- apologies for english -- they have to come out swinging, how do you think about this issue and then getting into some of the other bigger great power or traditional international power issues? dr. cha: although the biden team will have its own approach in terms of the issues to deal with, there are those unexpected developments that all of a sudden appear. administration, we were less than three months into the administration when we were confronted with the h1n1 pandemic. as pointed out, i was president obama's homeland security advisor, and pandemics from within my portfolio. .
so it was an effort to try to understand first of all, what we terms of then seriousness of the pandemic, and also making sure we were working with the appropriate medical experts, scientists, private experts, and others. one of the things i think joe biden will do, just like obama did, will rely heavily on the scientist, doctors, the data. do is continueto with their approach in terms of how they will deal with the issues we face right now, but also anticipating there will be some unforeseen developments, whether it will be the h1n1 pandemic in 2009, whether it be like the 9/11 attacks during the first year of the bush administration, these are the things they will have to plan for in terms of how they will surge, how they will be flexible, and what they can do to ensure that the
administration's capabilities and expertise are brought to bear in a very thoughtful and effective manner. mark: thanks for that cometh john. excellent in your point about policy development and crisis management, the confluence of those two on on already overtaxed national security and decision-making structure is interesting. we will get to that later on. north korea posed challenges in the early days for president obama as well. this is a career-oriented show. we will bookmark about. one last question -- we will bookmark that. one last question before we get to sue and victor. let's go one more level broader, a question that has global implications, but obviously at the epicenter of this question is northeast asia. i want to quote you director 2019 testimony from
congress where he said, china and russia are more aligned at any point since the 1950's. their relationship is likely to strengthen in the coming year. he goes on to say that their threat perceptions, particularly as it relates to u.s. unilateralism, interventionism, western promotion of democratic values and human rights, is something that they are aligned on, and they are eroding well-established security norms, and increasing the risk of regional conflict, particularly asia.dle east and east and the final point, this gets to the alliance piece of what we talk about in this program, he said, some u.s. allies and partners are seeking greater independence from washington in perception ofeir changing policies on u.s. security and trip and are becoming more open to a multilateral partnership. long paragraph, but i think an
important context. what are the implications of these findings, and where are we headed, and what advice would you give to the incoming team? mr. brennan: really good question. it pivots off the last question, in terms of the early days and months of the first year or two of the biden administration. i think foreign countries will be testing the biden administration to find out how it is going to deal with these and russia and china i think are high on that list along with north korea, iran and others. i don't know if i agree with dan that there is a strong alignment between russia and china, i think there are concerns and common approaches on how they fend off the united states effort to enhance its standing in a number of parts of the world since russia and china musclesflexing their more in some areas. i think the tone the united
states that for the last four years will have to be different over the next four years. so i think china and russia will well.o adapt to that as i think both moscow and beijing felt that with the united states pulling back from some of those global responsibilities and engagement, aid give china and russia more opportunities to enhance understanding and relations with countries around the world. one of the things i think is going to be important for the biden administration to do is to really reflect joe biden's very pragmatic and practical approach to these global issues. he is not an ideologue, by any means. he is somebody who will deal with the issues by their merits, which means he is not going to look at china through a myopic lens of an enemy, there are many dimensions to the u.s.-china relationship. obviously, there is trade. there is economics, technology,
north korea, proliferation, all of that. some areas the united states and china can find ways to cooperate. beas where in fact we can competitors -- we will be competitors. i think president biden and vice president harris are going to engage with china in a multidimensional way and not just consider it an act toward it as an evil empire. we treat china as an enemy across the board, china will react. similarly. i think the seem is true with china -- i think the same is true with china. joe biden believes it is important for moscow and washington to find ways to navigate these very difficult relationships because it is in the interest of global
stability. i think he has his eyes wide open when it comes to vladimir putin, and xi jinping and others, but i think it will be a more thoughtful approach. also, i think joe biden recognizes that you can allow problems such as north korea to fester, and iran as well, because the more difficult it is to resolve and redressed the issues of concern. i think the first year or two will be quite determinative, of how the relationships the u.s. has these countries and other countries will take shape. we have to sort of wait and watch how both washington and gauges -- washington and engages. mark: to your point, you just laid out for our viewers just how big these decisions are and how important it is to get it
right early. i am overstating it, that it is really important. a final point, i remember you mentioning this to me at the white house, it dovetails with president-elect biden's being a pragmatist and his advisers. pragmatism takes time to cause you have to sift through the issues, come to independent conclusions. there is an anchor point. exponential factor for the work cut out for the incoming administration. but good people up to the task, i will say that. let me bring in victor, you have been sitting in the sidelines, warming up, got some gatorade, all right. let's take a couple of these threads a little bit bigger in terms of northeast asia. korea, andia, north
some of the points on the alliances. what do we have to do early as a country? what does divided administration have to do early in terms of those bigger pieces in northeast asia, so one sets the tone in terms of our alliance relationships, and two, formulate an effective strategy towards china, and three, north korea. a simple question for you there, vice dean cha? dr. cha: [laughs] thanks, mike. great conversation between you and john. let me just say a few things. first is, i think one thing that is unique about the start of this administration compared to previous administrations that all of us worked for is that, every administration has a plan coming in, and invariably there is a crisis that takes them off track, and they have to adjust to that and find an exit
point eventually, and that may happen to this administration, too, but at the same time, the crisis they face is one they cannot put on the back burner. the current crisis they come in with, that being the pandemic, is not something that can be put on the back burner, because a new crisis, whether it is in that pushesan itself onto the front burner. in many senses, it is even an bigger challenge. there are very experienced people working on this, but i think that is the first point. the second, in terms of mentioned,as john there is a lot happening in foreign policy, but there is a lot happening at home. one of the strongest messages we can send to some of these other countries like china, russia, north korea, iran, is that we
are getting our act together at home, because that makes the you gott -- the united states stronger nationally which affects our foreign policy, and the credibility of the statements we make a broad. many so-called competitors or adversaries for challengers out there look at the united states now and see us in disarray. we can go out and say the right things, and i think pres. biden will say the right things, but it will carry much more credibility with allies and others around the world if they see as getting stronger domestically at home. the third point on allies and partners is, mr. brennan said, of course, we do need to reestablish those relationships. it has been four years of a different template, if you can call it a template, that really
denigrated our allies and partnerships around the world. there is liabilities on the power ledger, rather than assets. reestablishing those is important not just because we want our allies to realize we are back, but also so that additional challengers or others do not overreach, don't miscalculate and feel overconfident and overreach. whether that is china in taiwan, or russia in ukraine, or north korea with their missile and nuclear program. mark: one quick follow up to you -- the same question i posed to mr. brennan in terms of privatization in asia, if you are looking at this from the old you sittingnsc, there talking to steve hadley, you have a lot of things to do there. how are you thinking in terms of prioritization? alliances?
you have china, north korea, then there is india over the horizon? dr. cha: so, the first thing i think is the alliances. that is a priority. immediately, our two key alliances like china and south korea have both been obstructed by an argument over defenseaving to do with and cost burden sharing. this has been our issue in the korea alliance in the past four years. one of the first things is to get those things done. i think there were good negotiations that took place. as you put it in the past, mark, it is low hanging fruit, and we should get those done so we can send the signal that we are ready to focus more on the bigger strategic issues. on the india-china relationship, that is one i am quite worried about. that is a relationship where
there aren't really strong established patterns of cooperation, established patterns of interaction, not cooperation -- just interaction in terms of dispute resolutions. no institutions through which to filter some of these conflicts. it is like the west combination of things, i mean, the chinese see the indians as a proxy for us. pakistan sees us as a proxy for china. a bad situation. that is where we have to focus quite a bit of attention for us to prevent miscalculations or unintended practices. mark: i will always look out for low hanging fruit my kids love apples and grapes so i get what i can. you.over to take this any direction you want. you heard the good comments, a
bit about cyber, a bit about north korea, we've got planning and then we have contingency. bring in your expertise, talk to us about what you would be thinking about early days in the administration, and i would just underscore, you have been there, you were part of the transition. you are a korea official, a conduit to the nsc during the transition in 2008 and 2009? dr. terry: thanks, mark. you talked about u.s. allies seeking greater independence from washington in response to the perception on changing u.s. policies insecurity and trade, and i think this is a very important point. asserting u.s. leadership, is mr. brennan just talked about, around the world, demonstrating u.s. reliability toward our allies and partners like south korea. i think it might be one of the greatest challenges facing this administration.
south korea and our other allies around the world, the simple fact is well president-elect then might have broken record in terms of receiving the most votes of any candidate in , over 71 million people still voted for trump, after four years of attacking u.s. allies and undermining the international system. clearly, none of this was a negative for many americans, and it must be disconcerting to our allies. there is a possibility that president trump card run again in 2024, or pass the baton to some other new isolationist who could win. the trum biden administration will have to rebuild with our allies, and counter the sobering message that the popular, transactional, polarizing politics of trumpism is not an enduring reality for the united
states, it was just a four-year blip in american history. that is the central challenge, to reassert u.s. leadership, rebuild trust with our allies, and so on. a quick word on victor's point about getting our act together, i totally agree with that, but the reality is, congress can work with president-elect biden to achieve all of these domestic priorities. it will be determined by the outcome of the january 5 runoffs in georgia. if either republican senator wins that race, they would regain controlop of the senate, which means that biden administration will also have to deal with gridlock in washington, d.c. the hyper partisanship that mr. brennan talked about. a quick word on china. i do think that mr. brennan is 100% right, when the trump
administration built its asia policy around the goal of attenuating china's rise, indications are that president-elect biden and his team will develop a more comprehensive strategy to focus on shaping the original environment, they are going to pursue more of a cooperative, competitive coexistence in a multidimensional way. but that also means that biden's multilateral push toward china will also be biden-based and so on, and he could also be emphasizing, for example, more on human rights issues, and in that sense, i do think that south korea, bringing south put a little more pressure. not that they would try to force south korea to make a binary choice, but the focus on a multilateral approach, i can see
south korea feeling a little pressure in the context of the china relationship. >> can i say one quick thing on top of what sue said? mark: you own the place, victor. you are the csrs chair, what am [laughter] i supposed to do here? [laughter] dr. cha: we talked about a number of factors affecting the china policy. i just want to mention for the record, the role that the climate agenda will play in how the biden administration looks at china. i am struck by how the appointments we have seen thus far, including, of course, secretary kerry on the national economic council and other places are all people that have a very strong members conservation and energy background. i wonder the extent to which a lot of the decisions at principals committee meetings,
and the sea meetings -- and nsc meetings on not just climate, but other issues around the world will be at the table. that could affect the relationship with china too because that is where they need cooperation. china just announced a huge carbon-neutral goal by 2060 that shocked everybody. my guess is the biden administration will want to encourage that. that might be in force for more cooperation, notwithstanding all the other difficult issues -- taiwan, north korea, east china sea, south china sea. mark: i will just add here, before i come back to john, there is this narrative i have if youoing around that
engage with china on climate change, it means you will give away the store on the other equities. i think there is a way to do both, that will be an interesting thing to watch in terms of how they balance the different equities across probably the biggest, most complicated bilateral relationship washington has in the world. john, as i said, we have given you a breather. we are squarely in the discussion on asia, northeast asia. could you pick up on a couple of things, one, what would your advice be on managing the china relationship? of two, you made a career not solely, obviously, but a piece of it has been informing washington in terms of how other capitals are thinking about us.
so ticking up on some of your earlier comments about a different approach on the world stage for the last four years, the president-elect now vectoring in a very different direction. but also victor's point about, their his words and then there's action, and skepticism sometimes runs deep in asia. how should we be thinking about iece, the china p which relates to how our friends and allies about us in asia, going forward in the early days? mr. brennan: first of all, i found their comments from victor and sue notion. i agree with all the points they made. let me build upon some of the things they said. i think the biden administration will take an approach toward china that is nonideological and more sophisticated. unfortunately, i was just reading an article this morning
by the director of national intelligence that paints china as the evil empire. the biggest threat to u.s. national security. there are elements of china that should be were some to us, and we have to deal with them -- should be worrisome to us and we have to deal with them, but there are a number of issues that we have to engage with the chinese government on. some may be distasteful in terms of how we will engage or deal with, but it is necessary. i am concerned china may be looking also at testing the bennett administration in terms of how it will react on things like hong kong and taiwan, i am concerned about this brewing tension between china and taiwan. will china tries to test the depths of of the sense of u.s. commitment to taiwan during the biden administration? unclear. there is something else going on
in taiwan right now that may provoke some of this. courage theldn't biden administration to engage as comprehensively as possible with the chinese, again, confronting them when we must, cooperating with them where we can, and try to resolve some of these issues that, again, have been, i think not ignored by the trump administration, but treated in a rather unproductive and ineffective way. and thewith north korea korean peninsula is tricky for any administration, and it is going to be very tricky for the biden administration. one of the real concerns, building upon what sue and victor said, is trying to restore u.s. credibility on the and also our credibility with our adversaries. unfortunately, i am concerned that what has happened over the last four years really has undermined significantly the
durability of the u.s. commitments abroad. when we pulled out of the paris climate accord, the joint comprehensive plan of action, the iran nuclear accord, what signal does that send to others? why should kim jong-un think that a nuclear agreement or some type of deal that would lead to a reduction in its nuclear weapons capability will stand the strength of time? there are 71 million americans that are still very much supportive of the mantra of america first, america first, and the hell with the rest of the international community. i think with the challenge is for joe biden is to send signals to pyongyang as well as to seoul as well as to the range of capitals, that the trump period was an aberration. and it is a return to more normal norms of behavior expected of the world superpower.
but there also needs to be recognition on the part of the united states that the world has changed dramatically. china is a very formidable world power. russia also has tremendous influence. so rather than trying to subjugate other countries, the united states needs to try to protect its interests and the role it plays, included in a state asia. i remember in the last year or two of the obama administration, i traveled to asia a number of times and there was a pleading on the part of u.s. partners for the united states to engage in a trans-pacific partnership, so there would be some counterweight to the chinese on the back of the necks of these smaller countries, that wanted to be able to assert themselves vis-a-vis china. is goinghe asia region to take a lot of the biden administration's attention
because it is so important, first of all as a region in itself, to the point that sue and victor mentioned, but also, it has tremendous implications for the rest of the globe and u.s. interests. when we think about china's belt and road strategy and what it is doing not just in terms of commercial and business and trade relationships, but also security,its intelligence and military cooperation and presence across asia and into africa. these are things that i think the biden administration will be looking at in a more holistic way and understanding that dealing with china is like dealing on a three-dimensional or six dimensional chess board. they were you move on one of those boards really affects your ability to advance your position on the one of the other boards. what we have to be is patient.
the biden administration will not be what to turn things around overnight. i think the quality of the people biden has put together has the intellectual capability as well as the experience as well as the patient's necessary in order to reassert the united states's very important, influential, and exceptional role on the global stage. excellent. . there are so many different threads we could spend hours on and have a fascinating, insightful conversation. this is a gross oversimplification and probably not a worthy question, that i wanted to pose it, given your experience and given your professional development in the time period of the cold war. there is a lot of loose talk, i would say, making comparisons between the cold war and where we are now. speak to that issue? given you have seen the past and you have spent a lot of time working in the united states
government during that people. as you described today, we are in a much more complicated environment. your thoughts there. mr. brennan: when i was in university of texas, the fact that we had a bipolar world made it rather -- in some sense. moscow and washington, and then various other states that would lineup on either side of that, and then the ones that were more independent, more nonaligned. now we are in this multiple the world, where the united states has to deal with not just russia, with a growing power of china as well as regional bloc,s. we will not be able to approach the world from this perspective of engaging in existential relationships with a single adversary and the rest of the world recognizes the nature of that bipolarity.
it is much more complicated and complex, and the united states has to adapt to the reality of the world, not just in the world of 2020, but how it is going to revolve in the coming decades. too manytely, i think administrations look at issues from the standpoint of the presidential election cycles, and maybe this is why china has been making some real progress. i don't know if it is the chinese dynastic tradition, but it tends to deal with issues over the longer term. some people would look at that model as being a more attractive one, because it doesn't deal with the messiness of the democratic systems, but i think the world is different in 2020 as opposed to years ago. we just have to deal with the reality, again, asserting the united states'role where we can and where we must and we should,
but also recognizing that we are not the dominant superpower from an economic or military standpoint, that position we once enjoyed when the cold war end.to an mark: thanks so much. we are running out of time here. i wanted to get more on north korea before we go. victor, andto sue, and john, i will have you go brought on the north korea. , north korea has been mentioned in the conversation. based around events in northeast asia. still a relatively simple answer, -- simple question, it has been relatively quiet in terms of provocations out of pyongyang since the u.s. election, but we do have a couple of interesting data points, especially the recent "washington post" article saying
that pressure mounts over the biden economy, the south says. it talks about execution, offensive cyber mechanism. sue, your assessment about where we are now. dr. terry: there is so much going on in north korea. m is still in a wait-and-see mode with the biden administration. a lot going on domestically. we talked about how 2020 has been a tough year or north korea closings,ns, border doing damage to the north korean economy because they are isolating themselves. and then the article you were just talking about, talked about a very stressed out or angry kim feeling the pressure mounting over the pandemic and ailing economy. then there is a flurry of reports also about pyongyang
being under lockdown for weeks, or the alleged execution of a big shot currency change dealer. then the hacking attempt to break into covid vaccine maker astrazeneca by a south korean company and i believe five other companies in canada or france or india. one take away from there is that clearly, kim jong-un is dealing with a lot and is paranoid about covid. would have of their priorities right now is of tina vaccine -- is obtained a vaccine. it makes you wonder whether they will ask the international community for a vaccine, where the petitioned the there is leverage to engage with -- whether potentially there is leverage to engage. i think there are waiting to see if they get the right signal from the biden administration of what is possible going into the future. elect biden's
nominee for secretary of state advocates a multilateral approach on diplomatic efforts when it comes to north korea, also a step-by-step approach. he talked about in the past have the best model for a nuclear deal with north korea was a j.c.p.o.a. with iran. so we will see. because they are going to have a january party congress in early january before the inauguration in washington. they will reveal their five-year plan. the truth of the party congress in his speech, we will see what direction they are headed. but what is very important for us is to signal and said the right signal to pyongyang, not on the infinity ways like sanctioning -- in punitive ways like sanctioning, but also signals to prevent north korea from resorting to provocation, which is their mo, which they
are likely to go back to is the do not hear from us in the next few months. mark: excellent stuff, sue. one quick follow, i know we are basically out of time that we want to round up this subject. talk --rea once to lots of talk in policymaking and think tank, academic circles around things like that piece declaration.f war that has reached a high decibel level. is the north responding to anything coming out of seoul, or are they really focused on washington putting aside -- with the full understanding or at least an understanding that there are serious domestic machinations going on inside pyongyang right now? dr. terry: i have to sympathize administration, they are so eager to make a breakthrough with north korea, they are just throwing out there
everywhere, that they are peaceg about in declaration. we have to get a place where north korea and south korea are talking to each other. even if you want a peace deal, it is between washington and north korea. to answer your question, i nnderstand why the moo administration is doing what it is doing but i don't think it is necessarily the way to make a breakthrough. they breakthrough will come between washington and north korea. we still have to have talks. we have to go back to that. it is hard work, but that is what we have to back to and start all over again. mark: victor, your thoughts on this basket of issues. you are still on mute, victor? dr. cha: i agree with what sue said. for the south koreans to get look they want, a prerequisite is some sort of freeze deal
initially, but that will be a hard choice for the biden administration because it will mean, are you going to relax sanctions? that will be the key internal decision that has to be made. second point, very quickly, is to doea is 's mo provocations after the inauguration. launch, had a rocket the trump administration did as well. so it will come after the inauguration. the third and last point is that, this covid situation is going to be an important factor going forward not necessarily because there is pervasive covid inside the country, but the way the country has shut itself down -- would look back at the way they responded to mers and ebola and other things, they shut down much longer than the rest of the world. crisis ins
south korea for example was three months. north korea shut itself down for a year. so can they afford to shut themselves down for two years or longer while the rest of the world goes through covid, it is not clear they can do that. they may collapse before that happens. mark: victor, you have talked about the triple whammy natural disasters this summer sanctions broad sectoral's sanctions that began under obama and continued under trump, and then covid. at what question, level, and how will the north want to engage? then i will come to john for the last word. i think they will want a meeting with biden. i think they will want to continue the summit diplomacy. that is clearly not what president biden will want to do,
given what little was achieved with three meetings between trump and kim, and really will want to start at the working level. they will have to reengage again. mark: things, victor. john, last word on the north korea subject before we wrap -- take a step back, big picture, the dprk, threats it poses to analyze, and -- it allies, and also engagement. mr. brennan: clearly north korea's capabilities on most fronts need to be addressed. the biden folks will have a realistic approach toward north korea. they recognize that progress will have to be , i doental, but also think biden is going to recognize that some incentives, some carrots are going to be
extended to the north in order for there to be some progress. i think the initiation of a dialogue, certainly not at the head of state level, but at the senior working level, will be important, and i think there are ways to ensure kim agrees to that. on the humanitarian front, there are things that can be done simply in this covid environment that might induce kim to be more accommodating. it will not do anything in the near term that is not reversible on the nuclear front, but there are some areas where there can be some accommodation in order to get from washington and the west some very much needed assistance that we can find a way to reach the type of understanding. mark: last word, and i will -- i do think the covid piece and the
economic pressure it brings is very interesting in terms of the calculation in pyongyang. with that, we will bang the gavel down. thank you to mr. brennan for his outstanding comments and service. don't send us. the bill send it to victor. [laughter] ♪ we appreciate john's fantastic tour de force of experience here today. book.ohn's everybody, check it out. very interesting read. my favorite quote from the book is, mr. president -- this is your talking -- i am not sweating the threat of an attack because -- [inaudible] ♪ you said, i didn't realize it at the time, but that is what my life would be like for the next eight years. john, thank you for your
service, and for coming on the show today. we really appreciate it. viktor, thanks again for the great comments. fantastic work. sue-nami, thanks again, today. always thankful. finally, -- [inaudible] ♪ my bears won four games. again.ulations next year. thanks again to kia for sponsoring us. it has been insightful and fascinating. see you ♪ announcer: you are watching c-span. your unfiltered view of government. created by america's cable television company as a public service and brought to you by your television provider. announcer: the u.s. house is
coming in shortly at the top of the hour. flags are flying half-staff at the capital building to mark the 79th anniversary of the attack on pearl harbor. a billse will work on that provides temporary protected status for residents of hong kong. some election news, georgia secretary of state announced his state will be recertifying its election results after a third count showed joe biden won the state of georgia. >> good morning. i am glad you are here bright and early. i am sure you have places to be around 10:00. it has been a long 34 days since the election on november 3. we have counted, legally counted ballots, three times and the results remain unchanged. as secretary of state i have worked to secure the vote for all georgians.
on day one, we outlawed ballot harvesting. we strengthened signature match and moved toward an audible paper ballot system. i am the first secretary of state to implement a drivers license requirement for online absentee ballot applications, would strengthened the security of our absentee ballot process. whether it is the president of states orted another candidate, disinformation regarding election administration should be condemned and rejected. integrity matters, truth matters. the secretary of state's office will be recertifying election results today. they will meet december 14 to officially elect the next president. while we will continue our
investigations, and were prosecution is necessary, we will work with the state election board to refer them to the right prosecutors. we are working with counties to ensure a fair, safe, and secure election for january 5. we will continue to take steps to ensure only legal, register georgians will cast ballots. let's discuss where we are and where we are heading in georgia. all of this talk of a stolen election, whether it is stacey abrams or the president of the united states, it is hurting our state. georgia is the number one state in the nation to do business for nearly a decade. continuing to make debunked claims of a stolen election is hurting our state. i started my business and built it from the ground up. i have employed hundreds and hundreds of georgians in those
years. i know what it takes to build teams that work to strengthen buildings, restore and strengthen old landmarks, and i have built a team that knows how to win an election. i also built a team that knows how to run and oversee elections. i understand we need to focus on the future of growing businesses in georgia, getting through the pandemic, and bringing more good paying georgians to our state. georgians,jority of republicans and democrats, want us, all of us, as elected officials to focus on protecting and growing georgia jobs. getting the vaccine out as efficiently as possible and getting back to normal. 3 is drawnn november energy away from those goals. the president has his due process rights and those are available to him. it is time we all focus on the
future and growth. i know there are people who are convinced the election was fraught with problems, but the actual evidence, the facts, tell us a different story. ♪ announcer: joe biden as president elect. stay with c-span for live coverage in the transition of power. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ♪ good monday morning. you can start calling in on the special phone lines. as you do, when it comes to the possibility of new covid relief, this week is set to be a crucial one. for a look at the state of negotiations over new coronavirus relief, we turn to eric watson, congressional reporter for bloomberg. good morning to you. what is the status of