tv Confirmation Hearing for HUD Secretary Nominee Council of Economic... CSPAN January 28, 2021 10:02am-12:15pm EST
when we look at the cost of the climate change in our country, almost $95 billion a year, it is costing us. it is nationwide. we have the fires going, the floods, tornadoes generally outside the scope of what has been normal. as far as the keystone -- host: i'm going to jump in. the senate banking committee is getting underway their hearing for president died in's hud -- biden's hud nominee, as well as counsel on economic advisors. cracks there will be a flight delay -- slight delay before you are displayed. please hit the mute button until it is your turn to speak. if there is a technology issue, we will move to the next senator until that is resolved. i would like to remind all
senators that the five minute clock still applies. you have onebox on your screen labeled clock that will show you how much time is remaining. at 30 seconds remaining you should hear a bell that will remind senators their time has almost expired. to simplify the process, senator brown and i have agreed to go by seniority. after senator brown and i keep opening statements, we will hear introductions of our witnesses. we will then proceed to testimony. i will recognize myself for my opening comment and observe that it appears i am chairman for the morning. maybe it will be for a full day. that is to be seen. i wanted thank chairman crapo. i want to thank him for his leadership of this committee. in my view, senator crapo set
an example for all of us. i think senator crapo has a lot of work he can be crowd of during his tenure as chairman. the work he did on the cares act, in particular as the economy was in dire straits, to the bipartisan economic growth regulatory relief and consumer protection act. i want to thank chairman crapo, and i think i speak for many members as i say we are thankful to his work. i also want to say a word expressing my appreciation to senator brown. we find ourselves in this awkward position where we have an even split in the senate. we, at the moment, have this split on the committee itself. as i mentioned, i am aware that very soon senator brown will be the chairman of the committee.
i would like to point out, i think we have made the best of the circumstances we are in. we have made progress on the process by which we that nominees. we have made progress on the nominations themselves. we have made progress on the budgeting for the committee and how we will allocate resources. and i appreciate the fact that in the past senator brown and i have had a working relationship, whether on things like the opioid crisis, the threat to the great lakes that we share, and a number of national security threats as well. i'm looking forward to continuing to work with senator brown in what will soon be his new role. as for my opening statement, let me begin by thanking both nominees for their appearance today. more importantly, for their willingness to serve. cecilia rouse has had an
distinguished career in academia and government. she is well-qualified. she has a wealth of expertise and economic research, and previous experience on the council on economic advisors. multiple degrees from harvard university. and is the current dean at the princeton school of international affairs. and many more achievements. i will say, i am particularly pleased, and i admire her advocacy for freedom of speech and diversity of ones of you. i think that is an important principle. and they 2017, dr. rouse wrote "i believe diversity cannot be viewed along demographic lines. while we do not always think of diversity in terms of thought or political orientation, you should. it is critical that people who have different ideological viewpoints interact and work
together to debate the important issues of our day." i believe that is a constructive and much-needed sentiment. in the spirit of that quote, i want to recognize that i think i'm going to disagree with dr. rouse far more than i agree, with respect to policy prescriptions. but i think she is someone i can work with. i hope that if she is confirmed, she will bring a thoughtful, reasoned perspective. and in particular, a willingness to underscore that most policies have intended and unintended consequences. there are costs, as well as benefits in the entirety of the likely outcome should be evaluated. congresswoman, i want to thank you for your career in public service and your commitment to community. i enjoyed our conversation tuesday. in light of president biden's calls for unity and pledges to
keep personal attacks out of political discourse, i think it is important that we look at some of your past rhetoric, just as we should all nominees, to understand whether your rhetoric matches president biden's call for bringing americans together. i will say, i am troubled by a number of statements you have made, representative fudge, attacking the terribly -- attacking the integrity and motives of republicans with which you have disagreements. in september 2020 you slammed senate republican efforts to fill the late justice ginsburg -- ginsberg's seat. he said, those bent on choosing her successor have no integrity. he went on to say, they are a disgrace to this nation. congresswoman, it is one thing to have strongly held views and disagreements. i'm troubled by this and several
other statements. they raise questions about your willingness and ability to work with republicans if this is your opinion of republicans. one such category of areas where we need to be able to work together is how you as hud secretary will implement housing policies that affect millions of americans. i hope to learn more about how you will address hud regulations on forwarding fair housing. i hope you will avoid returning to the costly obama-era rule that forced cities to hire consultants and complete lengthy plans that could stretch as long as 800 pages. in my view, now was not the time to impose unfunded mandates on these communities, which will drain resources that could be used to support affordable housing and other priorities. i also believe it is local communities that should be in the drivers seat, making decisions for their communities,
rather than washington. i want to learn how you will address hud's disparate impact regulations. it often seemed that defendants were guilty before proven innocent. i hope that hud, any new rule that comes from allows claims of discrimination to proceed when they are legitimate, and freeze housing providers to focus on their mission. it is also important any new rule be consistent with the supreme court decision in inclusive communities. let me make clear how i think about an important issue we are going to be wrestling with in congress. it is the jurisdiction of this committee. that is the question of whether there should be a longer eviction moratorium in light of and in the context of the systems already provided. as a reminder, last year we were
in a full-blown financial crisis, and everybody on this committee voted in favor -- everyone in the senate -- voted in favor of several trillions of dollars to replace lost income for millions of individuals and businesses. in march, congress authorized hundreds of leads of dollars in direct assistance in the form of stimulus checks, food stamps, and enhanced unemployment benefits. just last month we did it all over again. signs are now pointing toward a robust recovery that is underway. it is not complete, but it is underway. the economy grew 33% in the third quarter. the personal savings rate is at a record high. unemployment has dramatically improved from a peak of 15% to below 7% now. just a few weeks ago we passed another $900 billion will, and included in that, congress made
125 alien dollars available for emergency rental assistance. that money has not been fully distributed yet. now we are being told we need to do even more, right away. my view is, if after all of this spending there are people who have all and through the cracks, people who have not gotten the assistance they need, then by all means let's have a conversation about those folks. what i think anything we do now should be narrowly targeted to the people who actually need the help, rather than universal spending programs that inevitably will spend huge amount of money on people who never experienced any economic hardship. i look forward to the testimony of each of our witnesses, and at this time i recognize senator brown for his opening statement. sen. brown: thank you, mr. chairman. it is a thrill to be here with my friend, congressman marcia fudge. and dr. rouse. dr. rouse and i have talked
numerous times, as is the case, have not talked face-to-face. i look forward to that. thank you, mr. chairman, for your words about the work on this committee. i would echo your comments about my -- mike crapo. while i disagree with him on most major issues, we were able to work together in this committee and make a number of good things happen. our discussions and relationship during this transition, the work you and i did, mr. chairman, on the cares act, that essentially cap 12 million people a lot of poverty until the benefits began to following in the summer. we should have moved faster. that was a point of disagreement, we, working together, made a huge difference. thank you. we will continue that in our new relationship in the next couple of years.
we consider the nominations today of two distinguished public servants. marcia fudge. marcia fudge to lead the house of -- lead the department of housing and urban development. most of us have met with them. in most cases we were impressed with your passion to serve, especially during the current public health and economic crisis. thank you, congressman fudge and dr. rouse, for that. covid-19 infections are up. new unemployment claims continue to rise. millions of families are behind on their bills. the chairman's right, there was good economic growth in the third quarter. the fourth quarter does not look so good. this recovery is clearly off-track. much more needs to be done. the new secretary of the treasury, former chair of the federal reserve, the sitting
chair of the federal reserve, who was known as a republican and he was nominated, most believe we need to do more and not put our foot on the brake. we face a choice when we finally marshal all of our country's past resources to meet this moment. will we help the families that desperately need it? there are so many of them in every one of our states. we help our small businesses to survive? will we work together to get americans vaccinated, active school, to work, back to seeing their grandparents? millions of americans face the ever growing threat of eviction in the middle of a pandemic, in the middle of winter. as racial and economic he -- inequality get worse. positions that will be essential
to determining which path we take during this pandemic and the years ahead. i can think of no one better to lead us out of this pandemic and into the future than the two men before us today. after a year when black americans have endured as many painful reminders -- so many painful reminders of the yawning gap between the promise about -- promise of our ideals and our failure to act promise real for everyone, two black woman will take the lead in our recovery. little girls, including black and brown girls, see themselves in our leaders, from the vice president, to our two economic leaders. it matters because of the perspective of these two women, these two black women, into these jobs. one, a daughter of cleveland. i'm going to add, her mother is sitting with her. marsha is broadcasting from
cuyahoga cuyahoga -- cuyahoga community college. i have seen her mother, an activist herself brought up marsha to be the activist. i have seen her around the community. marsha will introduce them in a moment. dr. rouse, with roots deep into youngstown, ohio. they bring a real understanding of the people who make this country work. they have -- if confirmed, congresswoman fudge will lead an agency that invites housing and safety to people experiencing homelessness from this pandemic. we were just talking offline about how important this is, especially for homeless veterans. today, hud is grappling with a housing market where millions of families find it harder and harder to afford a decent home. the cost of housing is up. wages are flat.
so many workers have trouble making rent every month without crippling stress, or they turn to predatory loans. the dream of homeownership is increasingly out of reach. and with increasing vigor, racial divides. none of this started with covid-19. the crisis is the result of decades of decisions. this pandemic has exposed what millions of this -- of families in this country already knew. before the united states had our first case of covid-19, a quarter of all renters in this country were already paying more than half of their income for housing. the black ownership rate was nearly as low as it was in 1968, and housing discrimination was legal. and when our colleague, senator romney's father, was nominated secretary of hud. hud should play a central role
in fixing that and expanding opportunities, allowing more families to have the economic security of a safe home. congresswoman fudge will help protect our kids from lead poisoning -- still a problem in cleveland. and give communities the help and resources they need. all of this is a tall order. she brings the unique experiences of serving as a mayor to the kind of community that is overlooked or outright right upon by wall street and big investors. we can't write off entire swabs of the country, whether it is a coal town or an industrial city. this champion of cleveland understands that. the council on economic advisors will play an integral role in helping our economy recover and building a better system out of this pandemic. dr. rouse is exactly who we need. if confirmed, she will direct our nation's economic policy to
put americans back to work fighting for better jobs with higher wages. the lands of americans are still out of work. those job losses have disproportionately fallen on black and brown workers and women. workers are risking their health to go to work. corporations still refuse to pay so many of them a living wage. it is all part of the corporate distance model that treats american workers as expendable, instead of essential, as we called them. for decades, wages have remained stagnant while ceo pay has skyrocketed. building back better means taking on that system and creating an economy with a thriving middle-class. it won't be the first time dr. rouse has helped us whether a crisis. she served on the council during the great recession. dr. rouse has spent her career focusing on workers, insuring this economy works for everyone.
her experience will guide this administration in forming the policies to revive our economy so it works for all americans. dr. rouse and congresswoman fudge will look at how we can protect families from climate change, while seizing opportunities to create new jobs, grow new industries, making our homes and communities more energy-efficient. this is necessary for our future. it is the investment that will put people back to work in jobs they can't be outsourced. we face extraordinary challenges. i look forward to hearing how each of you will chart the course out of this pandemic and build a brighter future in the years ahead. mr. chair, i ask consent to submit a number of letters to the record in support of these nominees. sen. toomey: without objection. sen. brown: thank you. sen. toomey: at this time, our colleagues from ohio and new jersey have indicated they would like to introduce nominees from their home states.
senator brown, as the senior senator from ohio, do you have anything you would like to add? sen. brown: i just have a couple of words, then i will turn to my colleague, senator portman. i have said much about marsha already. she is with us from our great community college, i believe, the downtown campus. i don't know which campus she is on. she is the proud daughter of ohio. she grew up in our state. she graduated from ohio state university in cleveland. marshall college of law. a long career in public service. she was in the cuyahoga county prosecutor's office. mayor of warrensville heights. i remember a long meeting i had in her office back in 2005 as she served as national president of the delta sigma theta sorority.
thank you for that. she has been a leader in congress this past year of the congressional black caucus. we know her as outspoken on civil rights, on human rights. she saw up close how lenders preyed on families. everyone in this mini has heard me talk about my zip code. more foreclosures there in thousands seven and anywhere in the country. she was serving as mayor then, probably seven or eight miles from there. she represents my zip code. now she has dedicated her career fighting for these families. i am excited to work with her as future chair of the banking and housing committee on housing issues. it is my pleasure to introduce marcia fudge and turnover to senator portman. sen. toomey: senator portman, you are recognized.
sen. portman: thank you. i appreciate the opportunity to introduce a friend of mine. before i do, i want to tell her that i think it is great that she is an -- she is at an amazing community college. i understand that this is marian stafford is with you, who is a distinguished public servant in her own way, although not elected office, and happens to be an 89-year-old mother of yours, is that correct? yeah, well, congratulations to you and your family for this nomination. i am here just to say that i am proud you are choosing to step up. you are a friend of mine, we worked together. you have a distinguished career and you have worked on housing policy issues throughout your entire public policy career.
he graduated from ohio state, earned a law degree from cleveland state. you were cuyahoga county prosecutor. you were the first african-american and first female mayor of warrensville heights. and there you worked on housing issues. i'm told affordable housing was one of your policy objectives, and you were successful in expanding that. since being elected to the house of representatives in 2008, succeeding another friend of mine, who was a successful member of congress who was able to work on both sides of the aisle, stephanie, you have gone on to serve the people of cleveland with substantial and impressive work ethic. as i have seen. from the compassion for your constituents. my experience and that of respected members of the
cleveland community, who i know well, is that you work collaboratively to tackle these challenges, working across party lines, including with your republican senator, now and then, and with the business community. you also chair the congressional black caucus. they made you chair because they recognize your leadership capabilities. in our time in congress together we have worked on a number of things that are bipartisan, increasing -- including increasing the go to college act, which incentivizes students through the pell grant program. in 2014, after a hard rule i thought was a bureaucratic rule that didn't make much sense cut off cleveland families from services, your office and my office worked together to ensure hud worked with cuyahoga county and city mission in particular so that residents could continue
to have access to those final services. we were successful in working with hud on that. i know you have experiences working with the hud bureaucracy. during this crisis, she has continued to be a leader in fighting for housing security by cosponsoring amendments to the bipartisan cares act that ensured those affected by the panic -- the pandemic were not foreclosed on due to missed rent or mortgage payments. just as important as her experience is, in my view, is who she is as a person. i don't always agree with marsha on policy, she certainly does not always agree with me, that i can speak to her integrity and the strength of her character. i think she has a public servant's heart. i think she is in it for the right reasons. she is going to step up to take this new responsibility, which is not always easy in these times.
as head of the department of housing and urban development, she will have an important job of leading efforts to ensure affordable, quality housing is within reach of all americans. this is something we all hope for. it is critical. i noticed this morning there was a new report on economic growth, fourth-quarter growth was substantial. that doesn't mean housing became anymore affordable. as we begin to come out of this pandemic, we are going to get back, as we start to build the economy again -- which all of us hope for -- into the same issue we have been in, which is a lack of affordable housing around the country. i know senator fudge shares that concern, and we will be focused on that. she also shares this committee's commitment to addressing the
eviction crisis. you want to be sure that landlords, particularly our small landlords around ohio and elsewhere, are not left without the resources they need to be able to be successful, but also we need to be sure you're dealing with the reality of people not being up to pay rent, in some cases, and avoiding those evictions which cause so much pain and inefficiency. mr. chairman, thank you for allowing me the privilege of introducing fudge. i look forward to hearing from her this morning. and then the opportunity to vote for her on the senate floor. sen. toomey: thank, senator portman. senator menendez, you are recognized. sen. menendez: thank you, mr. chairman. i look forward to working with you and incoming chairman brown on important set of agendas i know the committee will be pursuing. today it is a sincere honor to
introduce dr. cecilia rouse as >> this is not the first time i have introduced her to the committee, i had the same honor in 2009 when president obama nominated her to the council of economic advisers during the great recession. she helped provide strategies to strengthen our labor market and steer our country out of at what at the same as we realize was the worst economic recession since the great depression. she is being called upon by a president to serve our nation in an hour of greater peril and uncertainty. when she is confirmed, she will be the first african-american women to chair the president's council on economic advisors.
aside from the historic nature of her nomination, she is experienced with both the obama and clinton administrations. along with her academic expertise she is eminently qualified. she currently serves as the dean of the princeton school of public and international affairs at princeton university. one of new jersey's most prestigious and renowned institutions. her research and teaching interests are in labor economics with a focus on the economics of education. she has often said that she first became interested in economics as a tool to expand opportunity. she has studied the academic benefits of community college attendance, the effect of financial age on college, the impact of student loan debt on
graduates entering the job market. she is an advocate for reducing racial wealth inequality. a priority as we grapple with a pandemic that has disproportionately devastated minority communities. she is also senior editor of the future of children and has served as a editor for the journal of economics. she is a former director of the industrial relations section. i believe dr. rouse has the right experience and insight to chart a path for our country out of this crisis and towards a brighter, equitable and prosperous future. i will be urging my colleagues on the committee and in the senate to support her confirmation. i will look forward to working with her to getting our economy back on track and bring it much
needed change and equity. thank you mr. chairman. >> senator booker you are recognized to introduce dean rouse. >> i am grateful for your leadership in a loving these moments of introduction. it is very hard for me to see marcia fudge sitting before without putting on the record just a touch of truth about her. i have been in the senate seven years. it is not an overstatement to say, one of my most invaluable colleagues and friends that seven years is marcia fudge. she is an extraordinary woman who has a deep kindness in her soul. many of us who know her, she has been a big sister. she has been a mentor. that is most certainly true in
my life. i know she was a former mayor. as mayor you get the skill of finding ways to bring people together to create common ground. i saw those skills on display when she was the chairwoman of the congressional black caucus. which is a diverse group. but also her ability to work across the aisle, find common ground and get things done. i think as was said by senator portman, you will find in her eight goodness and decency -- a goodness and decency, god willing a friendship. i hope both sides of the aisle can recognize a can be as good for you as it has been for me. the only warning is to not try to serve her indian food like i did.
item i've ever seen her with harsh language. let me have the honor of having remarks about dr. rouse, president biden's nominee for the chairman of the council of economic advisors. what a privilege to be able to affirm what has been said by my senior senator menendez. if confirmed she will be tasked with an enormous challenge of helping to craft and guide our economic policy. at a time of unprecedented economic crisis. across the country this committee knows tens of millions of americans have lost their jobs. millions of our countrymen and country women have been pushed to poverty, food insecurity. women are especially suffering. challenges are being seen against people of color and women of color in particular.
the impact of this crisis has been savage and unbeatable -- and unequal. it has compounded the realities that already in our country. systemic inequality, historic disinvestment in black and brown communities. the washington post reported that the covid recession is the most unequal in modern u.s. history. the economic crisis and the resultant health crisis of this pandemic has made clear how interconnected the challenges are that we face. it is also clear help necessary is for bold action and leadership. we must have people with the kind of competency, qualification that dr. rouse has. if confirmed i believe that she
will offer that leadership, vision and action to enact an economic agenda that prioritizes working families. rebuild the economy in an inclusive way. and addresses systemic barriers that have driven a threat to our society. which is the wealth and economic inequality that have grown worse. i do not just say that as senator menendez noted that she is a proud new jerseyian, school of international affairs to princeton university. she is renowned in her field. she is a well-known and celebrated labor economics, a leader in academia and study ier of economic impact.
these are not nice to talk about but they are to the economic strength of organizations public and private. she has served as a member of the council of economic advisers in the obama's-biden -- obama biden administration. she was a special assistant to president clinton. if confirmed she will serve as the first african-american woman to lead the council of economic advisers since its establishment 74 years ago. it will be historic. she not just make history. i am confident that she will shape the future more with our common values as a people. she will be a force to make our nation bend the arc of the moral universe towards liberty and justice for all. i urge my colleagues to swiftly confirm her nomination.
>> thank you senator booker. i will swear in the nominees. i will swear in each nominee individually. congresswoman fudge will you rise and raise your right hand? do you affirm the testament you're about to give is the truth, a whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> i do. >> do you agree to testify before any duly constituted committee of the senate? congresswoman can you hear me? [no audio] having a little trouble with your audio. why don't we work on that challenge and move on and ask dr. rouse if you would please
rise and raise your right hand? do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> i do. >> do you agree to testify for any duly constituted committee of the senate? >> i do. >> you might sit down. congresswoman fudge can you hear me? we cannot hear your audio. i was going to recognize you first congresswoman fudge but because of this difficulty i'm going to go to dr. rouse then hopefully we will have the problem solved. we are not able to hear you. >> can you hear me? >> now i can. i am sorry to impose upon you again. we could not hear your response to the second question in the
oath. if you do not mind please stand and raise your right hand again. do you agree to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the senate? >> i do. >> thank you very much. you might sit down. each of your written statements will be made part of the record in their entirety. congressman fudge continue with your statement. rep fudge: may introduce my family -- may i introduce my family? >> you make. rep fudge: you have heard much about my family. this is all of my family. my stepfather and dear friends. i wanted you to be aware that we are all together, i am very close to my family and i am pleased they can be with me. and to my senators, thank you for your kind words and friendship. mr. chairman, mr. ranking
member, i think president biden for nominating me to serve as the 18th secretary of housing and urban development and will do everything possible to ensure that every american has a roof over their head. the housing issues we face are real, varied and touched all of us. i am a strong believer in the departments programs and mission. especially with guard to serving those who face homelessness. i've dedicated my entire life to public service and helping low income families, seniors and communities. i believe i am up to the challenge. as mayor of warrensville heights , i saw firsthand the need for economic development and affordable housing. we improved the tax base and expanded affordable housing. as a member of congress i tackled the challenges of my district working with my delegation and across the aisle. our housing issues do not fit
into a mold, i know the same is true in each of your states. we need policies and programs that can adapt. i would like to work with each of you to find the right answer. it bears mentioning in this moment of crisis that hud exists to serve the most vulnerable. that mandate matters a great deal to me. it is consistent with my values. it has always motivated me to service. it is estimated on any given night in 2019 more than 500,000 people experienced homelessness in america. that is a devastating statistic. even before you considered reality with covid. according to one study, 21 million americans pay more than
30% of their income on housing because of lost income and unemployment due to covid-19. one in five renters and one in 10 homeowners are behind in housing payments. native housing is in crisis with far too many families living in substandard and overcrowded housing conditions on reservations. although congress provided 25 billion dollars in rental assistance and the cdc extended the eviction moratorium this is not enough. almost 3 million homeowners are -- and almost a hundred thousand borrowers are delinquent. much like covid-19, the crisis is not isolated by geography. it is a daily reality for tens of millions. people in blue and red states, cities and small towns. my first priority as secretary would be to alleviate that crisis and give people the
support they need. we need to expand resources for programs to people who are eligible. according to a 2017 study, one out of five eligible households receive assistance. we need to deliver on the commitment on improving the quality, safety and accessibility of affordable housing and build 1.5 million new affordable homes. we need to make the dream of homeownership a reality. and the security of wealth creation that comes with it. it needs to be a reality for all. that will require us to end discriminatory practices in the housing market. and ensure fair housing rules are doing what they are intended to do, opening the doors for families especially families of color. who have been kept out in the cold across generations. there are some of the issues we need to come together to
address. everything from bringing capital back to disinterested communities to increasing energy efficiency in housing, to dealing with the dangers of lead-based paint, to taking down the crisis of homelessness with crisis -- with compassion and resolved. i know many of you have additional priorities. these proms are urgent but not beyond our capacity. the only weight we will meet them is by working together. to that end, i pledge this, if i have the honor of being confirmed i will be acceptable -- accessible to you, listen to you, and a party to help solve the housing challenges our constituents are facing. i expect you to hold me accountable, i welcome that. i will strive to be transparent as we work together to do the important work we are here to do. i think you and deal back -- thank you and deal back.
>> thank you congresswoman, dean rouse please continue. dr. rouse: thank you and thank you for the generous introductions. incoming chairman brown and members of the committee it is in order to appear before you. the last time i was before this committee was in 2009 my confirmation to become part of president obama's council of economic advisors. i was accompanied by many members of my family, this is a different time. they are with me in spirit. i thank them for the love and support they have provided in helping me on this path. that path began in the early 1980's during what was at the time one of the worst spikes in unemployment our country had experienced. i was a freshman in college. i was there because my wise mother told me to take an economics class. what my interest was unemployment.
when i could see how classroom material could be applied to the world and the millions experiencing in real-time the effects of a struggling economy. i was drawn to the discipline because i wanted to know why. why had jobs disappeared and what could be done to bring them back? i focused on the labor market and the impact of education on job prospects. barriers to job growth and policies to make it possible for more people to achieve economic security. since then i've had the honor of working on these issues in academia and the public sector. our country is living through the worst economic crisis since the great depression. millions of families have had their lives turned upside down. the economic security has been eroded by the economic impact of the pandemic. far too many have slipped through the safety net.
structural inequities that have always existed within our in economy have not just been accepted but exacerbated. there impacts more devastating. we must take action to shepherd our economy. as distressing as this pandemic has been. it is an opportunity to rebuild better. making it work for everyone by increasing the availability of fulfilling jobs and leaving no one vulnerable to fall through the cracks. president biden and vice president harris have made these values of their agenda. if confirmed my job will be to provide them with objective advice. rooted in fact and evidence to help them achieve those goals. as important as it is to interpret data and research it is vital we use this. too often we focus on average
outcomes instead of examining a range. as our wicomico's more in equal, that fails to look at the interests of those who fallen behind. one of my priorities as chair will be to try to understand how policies will impact all in our country as we strive to ensure the economy works for everyone. what is important is having economist that work in a variety of fields. if confirmed i will staff with a well-rounded team ready to look at the breadth of challenges we face. to close i am honored to be nominated for this position, it will allow me to work on issues close to my heart that are critical in this crisis. good, fulfilling jobs have been the key to economic security. we are statements pain in an economy that fails to fulfill that promise. there is much we can do to
strengthen the position of everyone. if confirmed i will work closely on these priorities. i will do so regardless of party affiliation, approach to policy or your opinion of the administration. i am trained to gather information and look at innovative perspectives. that is how i will approach this job and my door will be open. i am happy to take your questions. >> thank you dr. rouse. i will now question mice -- i will not recognize myself for five minutes or question, and i will remind my colleagues we need to stick to this time. congresswoman futch to go back to your quote, you refer to republicans who wanted to fill justice ginsburg's seat as having no decency, honor and integrity and a disgrace to the
nation. those are quotes. do you stand by that? rep fudge: let me first say senator, there are more to those quotes. i've always been able to work across the aisle. i have a reputation shows my bipartisanship. yes i listen to my constituents and sometimes i am passionate about things. is my tone pitch perfect all of the time? it is not. i know this. i have the ability and capacity to work with republicans. i intend to do that. sen. crapo: in june of last year while discussing republican policing reform efforts, you said in part that if republicans, " want to save face and let this country know that they care about people of color,
which i do not believe they do. they want to try, i want to listen." d believe republicans do not care about people of color -- do you believe republicans do not care about people color? rep fudge: i have listened, i have always listened. i am one of the most bipartisan members in the house of representatives. my record would reflect that. sen. crapo: let me ask you about the issue of deploying the ata. president biden has directed the hud secretary to look out the disparate impact rule. if you are confirmed and carried out that examination, if you conclude that addition to the rule are needed, will you comply with the apa and go through a robust comment and rulemaking?
rather than trying to revert to the previous rule? rep fudge: great question, i am going to follow the law and rules. you do not have to worry about that. sen. crapo: there is some flexibility within the apa. what i am interested in is whether you are willing to go through that notice and comment their so you can get as much input as possible? is that something you are going to do? rep fudge: something i am willing to consider. sen. crapo: i assume you would ensure that any revisions that you make would be consistent with the supreme court ruling and the inclusive communities decision. rep fudge: no question about it. if i may? sen: toomey: you may. rep fudge: you are talking about
unintended consequences. i look at the disparate income role. we do things that we do not think are discriminatory but is impact art. sen: toomey: i understand that and that is worthy of a lengthy conversation. in the interest of my five-minute minute limit want to touch on another issue. that is the mutual mortgage insurance fund. this is a fund that protects taxpayers from losses. if you decide to make changes, specifically and lowering of the premiums for that fund, will you commit to doing that in a collaborative fashion with members of congress? rep fudge: you have my commitment. if my am -- if i am fortunate enough to be confirmed, i will talk to the staff, figure out the status and come back to europe to have discussions about where we should go -- come back
to you, to have discussions with where we should go. sen: toomey: dr. rouse, i want to stress, is it your view that when the government uses a certain economic policy, there is often undetected -- unintended consequences and costs to policies that might have benefits? dr. rouse: what is important is when the government imposes mandates it does so understanding the benefits as well as the costs. to undertake those mandates the benefits must outweigh the costs. the most important thing is to understand costs and benefits. sen. toomey: thank you. senator brown. sen. brown: first of all, senator portman called
congressman fudge and offered to cope introduce -- about her bipartisan work. we are all outspoken about our views. pat toomey is. aisleways found congressman fudge -- i always found congresswoman futch to work with me, most of our workhouse delegation of ohio, which is overwhelmingly republican. she represents her constituents with fervor and compassion. let me start with congresswoman futch. you pointed out in your testimonies, that families in our country were struggling to make rent. nearly one million evictions prior to the year prior to this, the pandemic has pushed so many millions of families over the edge. that is one of the reasons i am
proud of what we did with the cares act, especially if we had kept it going. we kept 12 million out of poverty. what we did in december was called a down payment as many of us in congress have said we had to do more to prevent ways of foreclosures and evictions. give us a short version of what you will do through hud to ensure that families do not lose homes. rep fudge: thank you so much senator. one of the things we want to do is stabilize the market. we cannot afford to have people, millions of people affected -- evicted. the palm gets worse, not better. there are some who believe that we are doing more than we should, i believe we are not doing enough. on any given day, we have 8 million people who need housing. not only do we need to protect those currently in housing.
but those who art without housing get it. one of the things we have to talk about is finding ways to expand our inventory of housing. we have to keep people in public housing who were there. we need to expand housing choice vouchers. so we can reduce the numbers of people paying exorbitant amounts of rent. we need to find ways to assist people who want to build low income at affordable housing. -- and affordable housing. we want to be sure that fha is available for people who want to take the next step. that might be helping with down payment assistance. it might mean reducing rent. whatever it takes we cannot
afford people in a pandemic to be put on the streets. i believe extraordinary times take extraordinary action we are in extraordinary times. sen. brown: click up or down -- yes or no, the the trumpet restoration tried to undo fair housing laws. the present and announced several executive orders to begin to reverse these policies and work to fulfill the promises of the fair housing act. if confirmed will you commit to following fair housing laws? rep fudge: yes. sen. brown: just close with a statement to both dr. rouse and congresswoman futch, cities like cleveland have too many homes that expose children to dangerous lead paint. researchers found elementary schools and marcia fudge is in
my hometown of cleveland where more than one third of kindergartners had elevated blood -- lead levels in their blood. five and six-year-old disproportionately children of color. we start them out with such a disadvantage. dr. rouse you are a researcher that studies education and its connection to work. you know the cost moral and economic incurs when our citizens are unable to fulfill attentional -- potential. we know how to keep sick kids safe from lead poisoning, we are seeing promising steps in cleveland and elsewhere. my colleague senator reid has worked on this since his appropriations role. we have not had the public collective will to do it. i hope that is going to change. i look forward to working with both of you to protect our kids from lead and other threats to
their health. it is hard to imagine anything so important. >> thank you senator brown. senator scott. sen. scott: thank you mr. chairman. two congresswoman futch as well as dr. ross, thank you for your willingness to serve our country. i look forward to a dialogue about issues to our country. i have respect for you congresswoman futch, i think you indict might be disjointed on issues but your willingness to serve is strong. i want to talk about some of the previous comments made about the republican party as it relates to race. i cannot say that your comments were taken out of context, i would like to have a longer conversation about how effective republican party has been on meeting the needs of most vulnerable people in this country over the last several years. i have played a role in making sure some of the priorities that
impact our community have been brought to the surface, top. just to name a few. the highest level of funding for hbcus, permanent funding for the first time in the history of the country, lowest unemployment rate ever recorded pre-pandemic for african-americans, hispanics, asians, research on rare blood diseases including sickle-cell anemia. criminal justice reform that made up for the challenges of president biden's 1994 law. increases labor force participation rate. hone ownership for black americans is around 46% even after the pandemic. aid to black farmers that i have worked on. coming from the south i know, understand and appreciate the
value of african-american farmers to use property in a way to -- so they can participate fully in the usda. opportunity zones that are having a positive, strong impact throughout this country. the chief ega was passed on a personal level only, but the opportunities and legislation that was cosponsored by cory booker and house members that are democrats and republicans. i hoped and my question for you is can i count on you to take serious the opportunity to use opportunity zones as a way of meeting the challenging needs we have from a housing standpoint? rep fudge: nice to see you senator scott. it is my pleasure to have a conversation with you about what
you have done as it relates to minority communities and communities hurting. as it relates to opportunity zones, i will take seriously opportunity zones. i would like to if confirmed look at how many jobs have been created. how many sustainable jobs have been created. what the cost has been. you have to be driven by data. i notice something important to you. sen. scott: thank you. in opportunity zones they are responsible for helping even columbus, ohio, incarcerated individuals find housing, new jobs to cleveland. in my state, a poor rural community, 1500 jobs, only had 5000 jobs brought to them by opportunity zones.
that goes from earning him, we are using opportunity zones to challenge the playing field for those who have been left out and desperate for housing. 22 million americans live in manufactured housing throughout this country. one in five in south carolina. the definition is no longer the trailers that come to mind, it has a diversity. i would love to hear that you have an interest and passion for making sure that we can prioritize manufacturing housing as one of the ways to lower the cost and make more homeowners more possible for more americans. have you done any homework on the manufacturing housing? i would love your thoughts. rep fudge: i have as a matter of fact. thank you for the question.
i have done research and conversations with those who built manufactured housing. it is an outstanding option, the cost per home is affordable. it is something we can do rapidly. i am supportive of looking more into how we incorporate manufactured housing. sen. toomey: thank you senator scott, senator reid. sen. reed: thank you very much chairman. i want to welcome congresswoman futch and dr. ross to the hearing. -- rouse to the hearing. i want to say to the congresswoman for your great work thank you. we have all touched upon affordable housing. sometimes we see it as the human cost, which is tremendous.
but there is an economic cost, which would be an incentive to build more affordable housing. 94% of our homeless are on medicaid. there possible -- the cost per and is about 80% more than the average medicaid recipient. when you address the formal housing issue i hope you will point out consistently the economic benefits of affordable housing as well as the human cost. any comments i would appreciate. rep fudge: thank you for the conversation we have had to discuss some of the issues. the economic costs are in the trillions. look at the data. it shows that it is an economic deterrent to not have people in housing. look out the lost jobs, income and development opportunities it
is more difficult to get to work. we lose so much when we do not have decent, affordable public housing. the cost of homelessness is skyrocketing. it was bad before we addressed covid. what we found out is the cost of care for homeless people is skyrocketing as a of covid. how most people tend to be more sick, contract the disease more often, people in public housing tend to contracted more often. it is a costly proposition. sen. reed: let me associate myself with the comments on lead. we have had the same problem where i have lived, where we have about the same age of housing. i have worked on the appropriations committee to get funding to remove lead.
one of the things i want to point out is you recognize with the pandemic, more low income people are spending time crowded in a home which might have led problems -- lead problems. the problem might be more acute. i just wanted that on the record. rep fudge: i agree. sen. reed: dr. rouse thank you for your help to rhode island. senator toomey and i have certain ties to the state, we appreciate your help to the university. one of the issues i want to race in our brief time, stabilizers for unemployment insurance in rhode island at the last recession. you noticed that some states came out first, so the overall national picture looked good,
but rhode island and nevada were going head to head every week to see who had the highest unemployment. as we go forward i hope you would consider stabilizers so that certain parts of the country, not just one region but a lot of factors would not be left behind. your comments? dr. rouse: thank you. i think automatic stabilizers are a tool in the toolkit as we think about how we deal with economic slowdowns, help families and our economy recovered. where we have them in terms of snap, medicaid. they should be part of it. [indiscernible] -- a natural place to have automatic stabilizers, geography would be an important part of design. there are challenges there.
i think that is an important place for us to. sen. reed: thank you very much, good luck. mr. chairman. >> i want to remind senators to turn on your camera if you are present and into intending to speak -- and intending to speak. up next is senator cotton. sen. cotton: thank you chairman. president biden and his advisors have said one of his top priorities is racial equity, not racial equality. earlier this week he used the phrase racial equity in a press availability and desk racial equality in a press available -- racial equity and corrected himself to racial equity. what is the difference? rep fudge: from my perspective, the difference is one that means you treat everybody the same, sometimes the same is not
equitable. if you say to me, i am going to give you five dollars and my friend five dollars. my five dollars is not going to necessarily go as far. because my friend already has a mother and father who art wealthy and giving them -- let's do it this way. home ownership. the state let's make everything equal. it does not equal, because even though i meet the qualifications to qualify for a home loan. i have right credit score. i do not have down payment money, because my prince cannot afford to give me down payment. there is no wealth coming to me. most people who do not look like me have options i do not. to treat us all the same is not the same. equity means making the playing field level. sometimes it is not level if we state let's treat everybody the
same. sen. cotton: racial equality treating everybody the same. correct? rep fudge: the same is not always fair. sen. cotton:'s sound like racial equity means treating people differently based on their race. rep fudge: not on race but on economics, on the history of discrimination. a could be based on educational levels. it can be based on many things. not necessarily just race. sen. cotton: is it ever appropriate for the government to treat people differently based on race? rep fudge: no. sen. cotton: i want to return to something that came up with senator toomey. you said last year during the debate about justice ruth bader ginsburg's replacement on the supreme court in a floor speech.
those who are bent on choosing her successor have no decency, honor, integrity, you said they are a disgrace. if i recall correctly pat toomey wanted to replace her on the bench, do you believe that he has no honor, integrity? rep fudge: first of i do not know senator toomey, he seems like a fine man today. sen. cotton: your audio cut out. rep fudge: can you hear me now? sen. cotton: yes ma'am. i will say for the record that i believe senator toomey has decency, honor and integrity. i want to turn to another moment last year on the debate around policing reform. you said that we have them on
the run. the present has tim scott tried to come up with the bill, they know they must do something and they know they cannot do it without us. if they want to stay safe and let this country know that they care about people of color, which i do not believe they do, they want to try, i want to listen. do you believe that tim scott does not care about people of color? rep fudge: tim scott happens to be a friend. i support and trust tim scott. sen. cotton: as my question -- answer my question. if they care even a little bit about people of color, which i do not think they do, do you believe that he even cares a little bit? rep fudge: i was not talking about all republicans, tim scott clearly is a fine, upstanding senator. sen. cotton: thank you
congresswoman. i could go on, there is a long history of, such as this. all of us in public life say things we wish we could take back. if confirmed your going to serve the needs of many republicans as well as democrats and nonpartisan people. i hope in the future you can reflect your best moments and congress and not these. rep fudge: thank you and i do serve people now, republicans and democrats quite well. >> thank you senator cotton, senator menendez. sen. menendez: i will make a comment. if intemperate comments or harsh comments are the standard, i presided as the ranking member of the fort relations committee over an enormous number of individuals who would never have gotten through the committee and republicans overwhelmingly voted for them.
their comments might've been seen in the same context. i understand the nature of political comments. i believe from everything i have seen of congresswoman fudge that she will work for all people, democrats, republicans, independents, white, black, brown, native americans. let me turn to the housing crisis that displaces millions of american families and destabilizes our country. 2.7 million homeowners are in forbearance plans, nearly one in five adult renters were not caught up on rent. the situation is dire for my nordic communities -- for minority communities. 28% of black renters, 24% of latino renters said they were not caught up compared to 12% of white renters.
in previous crisis is, housing counseling have helped people stay in homes. to believe and providing additional funding for housing counseling would prevent closures? rep fudge: thank you for the question. i believe that counseling is a major part of assisting people, whether it is staying in their homes or continuing to pay rent. we have programs available to people they are not aware of. because we do not provide the resources to make them aware. counseling should be out the top of the list. especially as we work our way out. >> i agree very much. homebuyers who received counseling performed better and in 2017 74% of counseling clients were people of color. that is why i hope you will work with me in helping me pass my virus housing investment act.
something i think that will help all. under the last administration, hud relocated keep housing staff from its office in new york -- in new work to the new york regional office. you recognize this represents a significant challenge, 750 multifamily properties that exist in new jersey. can you commit that you will make sure that newark office has the staff it needs and that new jersey remains a priority? rep fudge: i can commit that. sen. menendez: last week i asked about the importance of fiscal relief to state and local governments so they can fight the pandemic and keep essential workers on the job. she agreed that would not be the time to withhold fiscal support
from state and local governments. do you agree? dr. rouse: yes senator, i shared the view that our prime focus has to be on getting us through this pandemic. to provide a two hour households, businesses, small businesses. we need to ensure that state and local governments can provide for fire workers, transit workers, first responders and educators. i would highlight in the great recession, that not providing -- we provided relief to state and local governments, the job loss was there and provided a drug on the recovery. to ensure we have a swift return , providing aid needs to be part of that package. sen. menendez: congresswoman fudge, i appreciated the visit
we had. eight years ago new jersey faced the worst national disaster in our history. new jersey families are now finding themselves after having traveled the procedures where they got some assistance from fema, also from hud to rebuild their lives. but they are finding themselves being caught in a maze in which there is an effort to claw back some of those moneys. i hope you can work with us to help the survivors. rep fudge: absolutely and i appreciate you informing me and to getting me up to speed on the situation. if confirmed it will be one of the early things. >> thank you senator demint den -- menendez, senator brown's. -- senator rounds.
sen. rounds: thank you very much for the opportunity to visit with you. i suspected a number of my colleagues would address the issues of the statements you have made in the past. i would like to move onto to another area of concern that i have, that we might find agreement on. that has to do with our native americans and housing shortages on reservations. i represent nine tribes who are sovereign and have a lot of their lands and trusts -- in tr usts. i want to dry your attention to an omnibus that would streamline section 184, lending programs. i mentioned that lending that land is a difficult process.
the loans are meant to provide support were delayed by the slow exchange of title information. the provision would allow hud to issue the certificates without waiting for the pia -- via if the lender indemnifies hud for the losses. this would streamline the program but hud would have to work with the members and housing organizations that serve native americans for the program to be successful. a lot of them are local. they know how to handle the individuals they are unable personal basis to get that loan. if that -- if confirmed will you work with me and native american stakeholders to making the section 184 program a success? rep fudge: thank you for meeting with me.
you have my commitment. i have had the opportunity to reach out to a number of native american stakeholders. we have had conversations about some of the issues. i know firsthand how difficult that situation is. i am supportive of working with you. sen. rounds: thank you. dr. rouse i would like to thank you for your willingness to have a phone call with us and your willingness to serve. i mentioned there has been economic disparities between states like south dakota where distancing comes naturally and more populated states that if experienced a significant spread -- have expensed a significant spread. i understand your role in economic matters, how do you think future assistance can be targeted for those who need it most while being mindful of the
fact that we are long into the territory of spending money that we have to borrow. i know we talked about state and local governments, demand varies from state to state, trying to target the assistance seems to be a sensitive issue. can you talk about balancing your recommendation? recognizing we have needs but every dollar that we intend to offer is money that we will be borrowing. and in the next two generations we will pay back. dr. rouse: thank you, i appreciated our conversation. if we take a step back and think about the purpose of federal assistance we want to provide assistance to people today, while ensuring the economy grows so that future generations are better off.
[no audio] [indiscernible] sen. rounds: i apologize, what i would do with the permission of the terrace but the same for the record so you can get back to me. thank you. let me move back to congresswoman fudge. we did not have the opportunity in our conversation yesterday, there are outstanding issues from the 2008 financial crisis is housing finance reform. how does not have primary jurisdiction. your work on housing will be important in deciding what to do. are there any thoughts as to what should happen with fannie and freddie? rep fudge: thank you. one thing i would say, one of
things we have not done is a holistic approach to housing. at some point we need a discussion between fha, ffa, treasury,. this is -- treasury, hud. this is a huge issue. we are talking about a $5 trillion business. just as congress has chartered these, it is congress's decision as to how they should be handled. i believe this is such a big issue that congress should make that decision. sen. rounds: thank you i look for to working with you. >> thank you senator. senator tester. >> i want to thank them for being here today. i appreciate your willingness to serve. i want to spin off of the point, this is the point you made
congresswoman fudge, there are 70 times in government, we are talking about broadband yesterday. you just talked about the number of agencies dealing with housing. you know very well that congress is not renowned for getting things done. that is what we have the number of executive orders that we have had. i would appreciate that congress is right to act, in the meantime i would appreciate if you can do what you can to break down silos in the housing unit. that is one of the boat anchors on our economy. in that regard i want to visit with you, in your position at hud, what will you do to support affordable workforce housing and rep. fudge: hud's mission is to
provide housing, low income and affordable housing. i support that mission by saying we need to expand as we talked about, expand housing choices, it's something we must do. we need to find resources to assist with paying rents, down payments. we all know that when we come out of this crisis, whenever that is, people are not going to just be able to say i'm 14 months behind in rent and i can just pay it back right now. we know that will not happen. we have to come up with a cohesive policy to allow people to know that the government is going to be assisting them and we have many ways to do it. certainly, fha comes within -- comes under the jurisdiction and others don't but i believe the only way we can solve any of these problems is to do it through inter-agencies, talk about what that policy should be
and that is the only way we solve these issues is to come together and agree. >> also spinning off of senator rounds comment about indian country, i would hope you have somebody in hud that is able to deal with the myriad of programs that impact indian housing. it's incredibly deficient. senator booker was on earlier today and we had a conversation about poverty at -- in inner cities and with large land-based indian tribes. they are both significant problems and i hope you have somebody in the agency that is willing to work with them to make sure we get housing bills in indian country because quite frankly, it is massively deficient. you don't need to respond to that. just do that if you are confirmed. my last question is for cecilia rouse.
i appreciate the conversation we had. we are in the middle of a pandemic which is because the economy to go into recession, depression some would say. i want to know your perspective as we talk about borrowed money and it's been talked about a lot and it's a concern to me. i want to know your perspective on how we spend money right now especially if it's borrowed to move, as you said, to move the country out of a potential decline of economic growth again? dr. rouse: thank you, senator. i apologize for my connection. i do believe that the best way for us to get back on solid economic footing is by getting through this pandemic and that means supporting businesses,
especially small businesses, supporting our state and local governments. if we don't, we run the risk of actually finding ourselves in a downward spiral. the capacity to deal with our debt is not only the amount we spend but the size of our economy and we want to keep the economy going, we need to spend some money. i believe we have to do smart investments as we come out of this that have economic return such as those in r infrastructure and,&d and education so we put our economy and a strong footing so it is growing and there for future generations. >> when you say smart investments, i assume you say money is appropriated by congress need to be targeted? dr. rouse: they need to be targeted and they need to be smart and they need to be in the areas where we know the economic benefit outweighs the downside. >> thank you both. >> senator tillis. >> thank you, chairman and the incoming chairman and thanks to
congresswoman rouse for being here. and congratulations to your family, congresswoman. i love seeing my mom in the background and i'm glad your mom was there as well. real quick question for you -- congresswoman fudge. do you recognize the back load of the pending hud changes passed by the manufacturers consensus committee? do you recognize those as things that need to be fixed? rep. fudge: yes, sir i do. >> on a related note, congresswoman, i remember when i was speaker of the house in north carolina, i met with a town in my district. it was on affordable housing which i supported significantly in north carolina. about 45 minutes went on things we could do to produce affordable housing and then they requested that i support a bill that would mandate a sprinkler
and single-family housing for fire suppressant -- suppression which for a hundred thousand dollar home would increase the home's value by $15,000 and it made me start thinking about barriers to affordable housing that could potentially be in overreach in certain communities. i had this discussion [inaudible] with for affordable housing. what are your thoughts on potentially looking at jurisdictions that have a need for affordable housing but may have overreached on the barriers to that purely through regulatory overreach? it's a means for prioritizing where we put these limited dollars to address affordable housing problems. rep. fudge: thank you for the question. i think everything is on the table. we have to look at regulations and we also have to look at safety, we have to be sure that if we want to put people in housing, we have to do it in the most efficient, effective and
safe way. i believe all of those things are on the table and that would be something i would be happy to discuss with you and take a good look at. >> thank you, if confirmed, i would like to talk about things we absolutely have to regulate to make sure that people have a safe home. but maybe let the regulatory burden in certain jurisdictions be instructive toward grandson of the things they may be eligible for. again, congresswoman rouse, thank you -- congresswoman fudge and family, congratulations on your nomination and thank you for your long-time service to your community. before covid hit, we had an economy that by most measures was moving in the right direction. i believe that a part of that were some of the tax cuts and job ask but not all of it, there were other factors but they were eight significant dripping factor to economic growth. we understand president biden is
going to propose tax increases and particularly corporate tax increases. what is your position on how we move forward and position our economy to grow as we continue to make progress on the vaccine and reopen the economy? do you think an increasing corporate taxes is called for? dr. rouse: senator tillis, thank you for that question. you have landed on an important question. we understand that in order to get to the other side of the pandemic, we need -- the federal government needs to step in. but as we get to the other side and get past -- and get to more economic growth, it's important we look at the federal budget in totality and look at the important investments we need to make in order to improve economic growth but also understand how we will pay for those investments now. i believe we should be taking a comprehensive look at that.
the president has committed in saying he wants to look at an area of tax options but that he believes individuals and corporations should pay their fair share. this is not to say that there is an automatic repeal of the tax credits that were passed before but we need to look at the most important ways we can both raise revenue in the most economically efficient way possible, also ensuring that everyone is paying their fair share. >> i will submit questions for the record to both of you, thank you very much and again, congratulations on your nominations. rep. fudge: thank you very much. >> senator warner. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you, incoming chair brown. congratulations to both nominees. i have enjoyed our conversations together. i will direct most of my comments this morning with dr. rouse.
as congresswoman fudge knows, [indiscernible] i look forward to revisiting this once you are confirmed. dr. rouse, one of the things that came out of the first cares package that i think was extraordinarily significant long-term was when we did the expansion of unemployment, there were two component parts. one part was the $600 which turned out to be controversial and the other part where there is broad-based support is the expansion to cover self-employed , gig workers, independent contractors, a whole host of folks. we have discussed universal workers in that type of work is not going away. i think it's terribly important to have a social contract that includes all forms of that and i hope there will be further expansion of benefits to those
workers including a component of portability, something i've worked with members of the committee on for a long time. can you speak to how we continue , sticking with unemployment, how we continue this commitment to unemployment on an extended basis? it has continued in december with the package. at some point, it cannot be entirely federal authentication. can you speak to your goals and how we make sure unemployment covers all forms of work? dr. rouse: senator, i share your interest and commitment to this issue. in fact, it's part of what draws me to this potential opportunity and i see it as the better part of build back better. it is to recognize that much of our social contract that you describe was designed in the 1930's.
it was designed for a labor contract or relationship between workers and their employers. if we take our ui system, the system is not providing the kind of safety net it used to. many workers are not covered. maybe half of workers are covered. the replacement rate has been falling. it was designed for short-term unemployment and what we have observed is that unemployment rolls are becoming longer and there ui system is not designed to help there and yet we know for both economics debility ,ui plays an important role. i share your view. i look forward to working with you and others. i think broadening the base of workers that are covered is important whether that's through portable benefits or how we classify workers, there are many options that are on the table. if confirmed, i would want to
work with my team and with all of you to find ways to what i call modernizing the ui system and other parts of our safety net so that it reflects an honors the changing nature of work in our economy. >> thank you. we want to make sure this economic recovery is equitable. i think we took a major step forward, some of my colleagues in both sides of the aisle must be commended like tim scott and mike crapo and we included the job and labor investment act in the last covid package which was $12 billion. senator brown has been a big advocate of this. we made sure there was an equitable access to capital and we have to make sure we implement that program right and
businesses don't get disproportionally hurt by covid in implementing that program will be really important. another component is during the great recession, we saw three quarters of the jobs that were jobs that only required high school education. going forward, we say three quarters of jobs are being created with a college based education. we can attack that on incentives to have businesses start investing in human capital. we have talked about the idea of changing her tax and accounting practices for businesses -- changing our tax and accounting practices for businesses. [indiscernible] we have talked about this before and i hope we can continue this conversation. dr. rouse: i would happy -- i would be happy to do so. >> thank you for respecting the
clock. senator kennedy. >> thank you, mr. chairman. congresswoman, can you hear me ok? rep. fudge: i can hear you fine. >> first, it's an honor to meet you. i don't want to put too fine a point on this but it's important to me personally to clear up the confusion that i have from your answer to one of the chairman's questions. i think it is accurate and you did say at one point that republicans don't care about people of color even a little bit. and i would like to know if you truly believe that. rep. fudge: senator, thank you. i also said that if they do, i
would be happy to listen. i am certainly always willing to listen and not believe my constituents but my colleagues and i would suggest to you very strongly that there has never been a time in my entire public service career that i have not supported and worked with all people and i commit to you that i will do just that if i am fortunate enough to be confirmed for this position. >> yes, ma'am, but again, not to put too fine a point on this but i need a little more precise answer. let me ask it a little more directly. do you think republicans care about people of color? rep. fudge: i do, some, yes. >> do you think most republicans care about people of color? rep. fudge: yes, i do. >> ok, thank you for that.
can you hear me? dr. rouse: yes, i can hear you. >> it's an honor to meet you, too. i want to take you back to the month before the pandemic started, before we even knew about the pandemic. -- the coronavirus. what tax changes, if any, would you have made at that point in time? given the fact that we know taxes impact the economy generally speaking, if you tax something, you get most of it. dr. rouse: senator, i believe you are referring to before the pandemic, i identified the economy overall was doing
relatively well. we were in an expansion and unemployment was low. >> i'm running out of time. what changes at that point would you have made to the economy? dr. rouse: senator, one of the problems was we still had inequality that was at record levels except for the fact that it has been exacerbated now. >> i'm sorry, have to do this because i only have one minute and 30 seconds. what tax changes at that time would you have made to the economy? dr. rouse: senator, i would have been looking for ways and strategies for us to be addressing income inequality and wealth inequality which existed at that time. >> how would you have done that? dr. rouse: i am an economist and i study things and i would want to look at a broad array of potential options. when president biden is ready to
consider the options for paying forward his investments which we know will help improve and grow the economy, we will study and try to impose taxes and try to impose taxes in the most efficient way. >> sorry for interrupting but we are limited by time. what are the options you're talking about? dr. rouse: we can look at our income tax rates, look at our corporate tax rates, we can look at ways to deal with wealth income tax. >> is capital gains on your list? dr. rouse: capital gains are tricky because we know the way we currently treat capital gains also generates inefficiencies. there are tricky ways we can do with capital gains but i think we should look at all of the options, absolutely, because we have wealth inequality in this country and it's getting wider. >> how about the death tax? dr. rouse: senator, i believe we
should be studying and considering all of these different options and put together a portfolio most effective for addressing wealth and income inequality in this country. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator warren. >> thank you mr. chairman and congratulations to both of you on your nominations and thank you for being here with us. a typical white family in america today has eight times the wealth of a typical black family. and five times the wealth of the typical latino family. those numbers have not budge in decades. dr. rouse, you have done important research on racial and economic equity throughout your career. could you tell us what it would mean for american families and for our economy if we pursued policies that closed the racial wealth gaps is stanchion lee?
-- substantially? dr. rouse: i think we share a concern about the increasing wealth gap i think we need to step back and consider why this is important and why any wealth gap is important. wealth represents a cumulative impact of inherited resources. it's a reflection of family circumstances but it also reflects obstacles in the labor and financial markets. the black/white wealth gap in particular can be attributed to a history of disco merry policies such as redlining and importantly, this continues generation to generation as those without truman would've wealth cannot pass it on to their children. the second part of why believe it's important is the results are consequential. wealth is important for well-being so increase wealth has been associate with better health income and better financial resilience and during the pandemic, we have seen that
those with greater wealth had more resources to call upon when the economy slowed. it provides a kind of self-insurance against economic adversity. it also provides access to housing and good neighborhoods with good schools which confers additional advantages on those who can afford this opportunity. the wealth gap is not about trying to literally take away but ensure that everybody can participate in this economy. >> that's powerfully important and thank you and we know big contributor to the wealth gap [indiscernible] black and latinx students have a hard time paying off school loans. if the president cancels up to $50 million in student loans, it would close the gap with those with debt by about 25 points. $50,000 in federal student loan dates is the single biggest thing the administration could
do on its own to narrow the racial wealth gap. i hope we will get a chance to work together to make this happen. i want to turn to another piece of the racial wealth gap and that is homeownership. owning a home is the number one way that middle-class families build wealth. but the racial homeownership gap is now wider than it was when congress outlawed housing discrimination in the mid-1960's. this difference can be traced directly to decades of racist federal policies including redlining that denies black families the same path to homeownership that was available to white families. the government. this problem and it seems only right that the government should help fix it. congressman fudge, you have spent your career working to improve the lives of people in communities of color. if the federal government
provided help with down payment for families living in formerly redline neighborhoods, would that make a difference in narrowing the racial homeownership cap and the racial wealth gap? rep. fudge: thank you very much, senator, it would make a huge difference. that is the biggest impediment to homeownership for committees of color. it's the down payment. we meet all of the other qualifications so it's like being in a race with someone who already has a head start because we don't have a mother or father to give us a down payment. we don't have the wherewithal, the same kind of income, the same kind of access. it is like we are starting out of the blocks with somebody who is ahead of us by 100 yards. down payment assistance is a major, major impediment and if we can fix that, you would see a tremendous growth. no matter what they say,
homeownership among blacks right now is the same as it was in 1968. >> thank you, congresswoman. we need to take action before the pandemic widens the homeownership gap even more. it's time for an all hands on deck approach to tackling the shameful racial disparities in our economy, providing dame cash down payment assistance is a powerful way to do that. administratively canceling billions of dollars in student loan debt is another. i know you both care deeply about these issues and i look forward to working with you in your new roles. >> senator schatz. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you ranking member and thank you to our nominees. i want to start with congresswoman fudge. we had a great cop -- conversation the other day and i want to follow up on something i feel passionately about, a straight line can be drawn from the racist local and federal
segregation policies of the past to our zoning codes today. in addition to recommending, recommitting to fair housing enforcement, what should hud dude in -- to encourage communities to abandon exclusionary zoning and intimate policies that build equitable and affordable housing? rep. fudge: thank you, senator. we have to get rid of it's not attitude. we have to find ways for two reasons. one is that housing has increased by 10% or more per year. the average person we are talking about that hud serves are people whose incomes are not rising. we will have to find some incentives for homebuilders especially those that build multifamily housing. they must assist us in these committees to change the zoning laws. some of them are very
discriminatory and i think there are legal options but i also think we need to convince that it is to their advantage economically. it is to their advantage to make sure their committees no that is important to them to get people off the street and house people properly in safe, affordable housing. it's a tough issue. being a mayor, i understand it but at some educational issue and we need to make sure we educate them all. >> thank you for that and i look forward to working with you on this. part of this is the politics of cities and towns, people who otherwise consider themselves rather progressive get rather regressive and are not reminded by people such as you and many people on the banking committee and in the congress that the exclusionary zoning and restrictive covenants, all of that is the great-grandson of jim crow.
we need to remember that legacy even as all these progressives were fighting for progressive causes except for housing next to their block. that's something that we have to wrap our minds around, not just from a policy prepacked -- perspective, but from a community into munication's perspective and i hope we can work together on that. rep. fudge: if i am confirmed, i will talk about it with you all the time. >> last congress, introduced a cdbger reform that would permit lee author is a program get funding to committees faster help unities develop housing focused community resilience plans. do you support the permanent authorization ofcdbger? rep. fudge: very much and i will be happy to work with you on it if confirmed. that's the only way we can get it out without jumping through a million hoops. >> hawaii has one of the worst housing shortages in the united states.
san francisco, new york prices and midwestern salaries. do i have your commitment to work, generally speaking, on the housing shortage in hawaii and specifically on the native hawaiian housing challenge in the native hawaii housing block grants? rep. fudge: absolutely, i am look forward to working with you. >> dr. rouse, there is a real sort of shift in thinking around the economics of climate action. i think this thinking is happening in could emea and it certainly happening in the markets and it's happening in congress and i wonder how you see your role in developing the data sets that sort of flesh out the case the climate action is not in conflict with an economic strategy but in fact our economic strategy.
i wonder how you will develop the data set to clarify that so we don't have to have this 1970's argument about whether we will protect the environment or develop the economy. dr. rouse: senator, i can assure you that addressing her climate challenges front and center of the administration. we will have an economist, one of our members and we are hiring another should i be confirmed that will focus on climate and understanding the true cost of climate and action and understanding the benefits of addressing climate and how we can do so efficiently are key to what i would like to accomplish should i be confirmed. >> thank you, senator schatz, senator cortez masto. >> thank you, congratulations on the nominations both -- to both of you.
dr. rouse, let me start with you. i appreciate both of you having conversations with me. as you can imagine, this is surrounding the hospitality and tourism industry because nevada has been so hard-hit. our resort operators support our whole community but as you and i discussed, when people are not willing to travel during a pandemic, it has a devastating impact on our economy, both on the businesses and workers that directly and indirectly supported. -- support it. before the pandemic, the travel and tourism industry was one of the largest sectors of the economy. in 2019, travel generated 1.1 trillion dollars in spending and supported 15.8 million americans.because of the covid pandemic, it has devastated this industry and according to oxford economics, the u.s. lost $510 billion in travel spending and 4.5 million
travel jobs in 2020. my question to you as you think of the travel industry, is that one area where congress and the administration should focus when crafting a stimulus bill? dr. rouse: senator, i appreciated our conversation and i share your concern about the travel and leisure industry. from the most recent job report, that is an area where we have seen significant job losses and have been hardest hit by the pandemic. as i have said before, getting through the pandemic as safely as possible where we are helping individuals and helping businesses that are viable to get to the other side so that they can participate in the growth is very important. i believe we should be targeting her this -- our assistance in the hardest areas. i believe the president shares that sentiment and i would say
that in the rescue plan, there is additional aid for his misses but i would look forward to talking with you and understanding from your perspective and your constituents perspective to ensure that we get the assistance of those businesses in those sectors that are the most heavily impacted by the pandemic. >> i do look forward to working with you. i helped introduce a bipartisan bill into congress and we have ideas after working with their industry locally and nationally about what can be done and that includes tax credits to be effective tools to incentivize spending and help certain sectors recover from an economic crisis oil look forward to talking with you on that subject, thank you. congresswoman fudge, let me associate myself with some of the comments that senator scott brought forward as far as manufactured housing.
he and i both cochaired a bill, the manufacturing housing modernization act that was passed into law. it was passed into law a year ago and to my understanding, has to my understanding, has not been implemented by hud. as a result of that, we sent a letter to than secretary carson february 4, asking for the quick implementation of the new law. what it does is it issues guidance for the inclusion of manufactured housing in states and local governments' consolidated plans so i would look forward to working with you in the implementation of that particular law. i only have so much time so let me talk about another area we all have been addressing which is the affordable housing crisis in the and across the country. one area is youth homelessness. that is third in the nation for the total number of unaccompanied youth experiencing homelessness and the highest rate of unsheltered, unaccompanied homeless youth.
i know this is an area that's important for you as well. what ideas do you have to work with other agencies to reduce the youth homelessness and what can hud be doing as well? rep. fudge: thank you very much, senator and i did enjoy our conversation, thank you. if i'm confirmed, one of the things we need to address right away is youth aging out of the foster care system. as soon as they joke, they have no place to go. hud has -- as soon as they ate out, they have no place to go. they have been allowed to stay in public housing at least until they can get them on their feet but this is a difficult situation with the numbers of young people who are unintended but the majority of them are foster children so we need a program for foster youth and that's something i would be happy to work with you on should i be confirmed. >> i look forward to it, thank you again. >> senator smith. >> thank you so much.
welcome to our nominees. you both bring such distinguished records and i know a true spirit of public service. i am really grateful for the conversations i was able to have with both of you over the last couple of weeks. i very much look forward to supporting you. we are in the midst of the worst public health crisis and economic crisis together colliding in our country we have, to my knowledge, have ever lived through. i appreciate how both of you are talking about how we need to navigate through this crisis but also focus on how we can expand on the ingenuity and innovation and the amazing work of american workers to be able to build our economy forward. dr. rouse, i want to start with you. i appreciated our conversation and your thoughts on this and your reasonableness and i have previous -- and i appreciate
especially how you talk about following the data, not just the averages but the entire scope of data that will help us understand how people are doing at the extremes of our economy as well as how people on the average are doing. this gets to a question the senator warren was raising that i think is important. it is the cost of inequality to our economy and elizabeth touched on this with regard to homeownership and i want to ask you about the challenges to our connolly because of lack of access to capital for communities of color. and especially the role that cdfi can play in expanding access to capital, the impact that can have an inequality in getting our economy really moving again. dr. rouse: thank you, senator, you raise a very important issue . as we think about having a shared recovery and ensuring
that not just the average does well but everybody, i want to emphasize that geographic diversity and what happens in our rural areas in particular and there hardest hit areas is an important part of that. we know that stimulating economic activity is the best way to generate employment for all areas and therefore economic security to ensure that the young people want to stay in those areas. they have an incentive to stay and not flee to urban areas in order to find a job. if we want to bring back vibrancy to all of the areas of the u.s., we have to ensure that the businesses in the smaller businesses have access to capital so they can get started and during a downturn such as this, that they access the capital so they can thrive during economic activity and a bridge to make sure they survived to the other side. i believe it's an important part
of our strategy. >> when you and i met, we talked about what this could look like in indian country in the united states and i want to re-extend my invitation to come to minnesota virtually or in person so we can have some conversations about what that would mean in terms of access to capital and economic development in tribal lands. let me turn to representative fudge to carry on this theme. i appreciate you and your leadership but i also want to note that as a mayor, i think mayors know that no problem is too big or small for a mayor to focus on in most problems, when you are a mayor, they are not republican or democratic problems but problems whether people's lives work or not. i believe you will bring that same spirit to housing and urban development. i want to thank you and i want to ask a follow-up specifically
on the conversation we had about the shortage of housing on tribal lands. i would ask if you could comment briefly on the most important housing programs for tribal and indian country and what role you see that can play in addressing the housing shortage in tribal communities? rep. fudge: thank you very much and thank you for taking the time to speak with me. nahasa was brought up by most of the tribal leaders i've spoken with and i have guaranteed i will look into it as quickly as possible. as soon, if i'm confirmed, as soon as i can get in the office and talk to the staff and figure out what's going on with it, i promise i will get back with you as well as i promised them i would get back with them and i intend to do just that. >> thank you very much, i have a question for the record which i will submit for representative fudge about the importance of maintenance and safety needs in
public housing. this relates to the tragic situation in minnesota with a failed sprinkler system and you can get back to me on that, representative fudge. >> it's my understanding the senator van hollen may be attempting to log on but he has not been able to do so yet. senator brown, if you had a closing comment you wanted to make, maybe you could make that statement now and we could give more time for senator van hollen to join us if. he is able to do so >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you again to my friend congresswoman fudge and dr. rouse. let me say in response to questions from a number of my colleagues, it's tough to take a lecture on political speech for members of a party whose leader just three weeks ago literally incited a violent insurrection with his words.
the rhetoric we should be worried about are the lies and conspiracy theories that do more than hurt feelings. they incite violence, they undermine our democracy. i know senator toomey at least has pushed back against the former presidents lies about our election. i appreciate his candor and his courage. i wish others are colleagues on this committee and on the -- and in the senate which show the same kind of courage. thanks to congresswoman fudge and thanks to dr. rouse. i am cited -- i'm excited to work with both of you. this hearing today [indiscernible] i appreciate the congresswoman's comments that the searched ordinary times that require extreme reactions. what you two will do in the next several years will be the most important things you have ever done in your lives, i assume. i consider my job to be that in
the few years ahead. your service to our country is both admirable and absolutely crucial. thank you chairman to me and thanks to our two witnesses. >> thank you senator brown, let me briefly observe that i appreciate the conversation today and i'm grateful to the two witnesses for their willingness to serve our country. i will say that i think i heard bipartisan discussion about the fact that we are in a different place in our economy today then we were back in march. today, we've got people who are certainly suffering from terrible circumstances but it is a much more targeted group of folks than the sort of universal catastrophe we faced in march. i hope that as we develop further responses, it will reflect that reality. this concludes the question and answer portion of today's hearing. prior to a, i've have final housekeeping announcements. before that, let me thank both of our witnesses, or nominees
for your testimony and for your willingness to serve. the senators follow on questions must be sued and submitted by 5 p.m. january 30 on saturday and i asked you to respond to whitten -- written questions you received by noon, monday, february 1. i know that is a tight timeframe but your prompt responses will facilitate this committee quickly processing your nominations. with that, this hearing is adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> the senate today has been considering president biden's nominations of marcia fudge to be secretary of housing and urban development and cecilia rouse to chair the council of economic advisers. you can watch this hearing again is its entirety tonight beginning at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span. ♪ >> you are watching c-span, your
unfiltered view of government. c-span was created by america's cable television companies in 1979. today, we are brought to you by these television companies who provide c-span to viewers as a public service. >> today at 1:30 p.m. eastern, president biden will talk about health care access and affordability. he will sign executive orders addressing those matters, watch live coverage on c-span. also on c-span, watch white house press secretary news briefing and will answer questions about the president's health care at 2:30 p.m. eastern here on c-span. continues. host: joining us to talk about the future of the republican party is paris dennard with republican national committee, the senior communication advisor for black media affairs. let's begin with what you do for the rnc?
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