[applause] washington journal c. host: time for another one of our sunday political roundtables. we are joined by rory cooper and adrienne elrod. adrienne elrod, it was cnn who put it this way on friday -- "

what happens this week on capitol hill will make or break biden's first term legislative agenda." guest: i would not say it was a make or break for his agenda. there is still a lot of time left. you wants -- he wants to pass reconciliation and he wants -- and he wants to pass infrastructure. democrats mostly agree on the legislative agenda. we will see how this process works out. this is an important week for joe biden. that is why he has been speaking to members. host: rory cooper, what is the

republican strategy this week? is it to go on allowing progressive send moderates to disagree with each other? guest: i have a less optimistic view of what will happen this week. nancy pelosi is bringing her caucus together at 5:30 p.m. on monday close to when they need to start voting. they have allowed the legislative calendar to put all of these things all at once. the bipartisan infrastructure package, the debt limit, continuing resolution -- you can make the legislative calendar work better for you if you plan these in advance. they have allowed themselves to get backed into this corner. it is going to be a hard week for them, even if they are able

to get something passed, knowing it will be dead on arrival in the senate. host: we are used to busy weeks, but a particularly busy week this week. budget resolution debate in the house, possible final vote sometime this week, that government funding deadline is midnight on thursday, that bill includes a debt ceiling, a potential debt ceiling raise. layout the possible best case scenario for democrats by the time we get to friday. guest: the best case scenario is if we were able to pass reconciliation. ultimately, it will pass.

we will have a short-term spending bill to get through the next few weeks. if that does not pass, that is on him. creditors will tell you we need to get the debt ceiling raised. we need to raise it for things that republicans passed knowing the trump administration. when it comes to the biden agenda, the best case scenario would be -- if we can get to a point where we are close to passing one of them, i would consider that a win as well. host: realistic best case scenario for republicans on friday? guest: i think that when they get to friday, we will at least

know where the divisions by, what mansion and cinema are going to stomach on the senate side. they will have a framework that will not mean much. on the debt ceiling, mitch mcconnell does not need to deliver a single republican vote for the debt ceiling. the only reason they want to get bailed out by republicans on this vote is a allowed themselves to get back to get back into this legislative corner. republicans are essentially bystanders at this point. they will watch have the democratic field plays out. we have had a lot of contentious debt ceiling raises over the years. we should probably do away with

it altogether because it is always a ridiculous situation. mitch mcconnell is a legislative master. what he needs right now is for there not to be trillions of trillions of dollars not spent on a reconciliation bill. he knows the way to help delay that is to make democrats own their work. host: the debt ceiling, the bipartisan infrastructure framework, the build back, better act, the issues we are talking about that congress will be talking about all week long. worry cooper -- rory cooper and adrienne elrod are with us until

9:00 a.m. eastern. start calling in. the government funding ends at midnight on thursday. from a purely political standpoint, who generally wins these government shutdown battles? guest: unfortunately the people who lose are the ones you just mentioned -- government workers. nobody wants to have a shutdown under their watch. the biden administration has made it clear where they stand on things. when it comes, to raising the debt ceiling, one of the reasons

we have to do that is to pay for the legislative agenda under donald trump. democrats are doing the best we can. we are keeping our caucus aligned as much as we possibly can on these matters. host: both our guests with a vast background in politics. roy cooper, who wins a government shutdown? guest: democrats on the white house, the senate,, and the house. there is not a republican involved here. i do not think we will have one because of that. if we were, it would be a signal of legislative incompetence. you should be able to at least pass a continuing resolution. host: do think that is the easy

one this week for democrats? guest: absolutely. host: what is the hard-won -- hard one this week for democrats? guest: the infrastructure framework bill. the progressives are going to have a hard time stomach getting a smaller bill that gives them less leverage in the senate with joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. whether or not they can get the infrastructure done knowing that challenge is ahead of them. host: for so long nancy pelosi has been known as somebody who has been able to avoid the interparty fighting in her caucus, something we see more in

recent years on the republican side in the house. why is this interparty fighting happening now? do think it is overblown? guest: i think it is overblown. i would not vote against -- bet against nancy pelosi. here is the thing with the build back better act -- some people want to compare this with passing the affordable care act. there were back and forth machinations behind the scenes, lots of debating within the caucus about the merits of the bill and how to make it as strong of a bill as possible. when the aca passed it was not very popular.

the build back better act is extremely popular. your overdue for passing a large legislative agenda -- we are overdue for passing a large legislative agenda like this. there is a lot of overdue policies in this legislation, and they are overwhelmingly popular. regardless of whether you are a democrat or a republican, the build back better act is very popular. host: adrienne elrod and rory cooper with us this morning, taking your phone calls and one of our sunday political roundtables. malik in arlington, texas, independent.

caller: the republican party is nothing more than the socially acceptable fascist movement. with that being said, i am paying 27% of my income under president trump mainly because he -- i never received the tax break. the republican party has been taking this trickle-down economics to the grave. i have never seen that. the government has not given me anything. i received $1500 in a pell grant . the republican party is nothing more than groundhog day. host: what do think happens this week? caller: the democrats either go

it alone and pass the agenda because republicans were upset that we did not even stay and afghanistan. this needs to pass. we need to go it alone as democrats -- democrats need to go it alone. i am an independent because i do not respect democrats. the republicans are not there to make anyone's lives better guest:. guest:-- anyone's lives better. guest: the republican party has their run problems for sure. comparisons to the affordable care act passage -- you look back at that time, president obama was front and center selling that legislation.

he was putting a lot of pressure on capitol hill to do it. fortunately right now president biden is nowhere to be seen. he has not given nancy pelosi or chuck schumer any help. he has not given them any of the public assistance to push on selling the agenda, on pushing the moderates and progressives into a lane. host: adrienne elrod? guest: joe biden has been talking about this agenda since his time on the campaign trail when he was running for the democratic nomination. he has been traveling across the country since he was first sworn in as the president, talking about this agenda. he has been having behind the

scenes meetings. he has been transparent throughout the entire process. he is still continuing to have these conversations to try and get the overall democratic caucus to a place where we can have the majority of votes pass. he has been invested in this. host: could president biden have broken this up into smaller parts? guest: i think you have to at least go into your first year as president in a big way. you have to go big. if reconciliation does not pass, he can approach some of these very critical issues in a smaller, more piecemeal approach, but when you have the majority to the house and senate, you have to try and pass

your legislative agenda in one fell swoop, if you can. host: the bipartisan infrastructure framework got 19 votes in the senate, 19 republican votes. why is it less than half a dozen now among house republicans? guest: the house is not going to do any favors for nancy pelosi this week. there will be a difficult challenge for her to try and get these bills passed. it is less about the legislation and more about the legislative process right now. there are a lot of people in washington pushing for its success. unfortunately the democrats mated a hostage to the reconciliation -will- made --

made it a hostage to the reconciliation bill. the way these things happen, process sometimes trumps legislation. nancy pelosi will have to figure out how to get her democrats in line. republicans have been on tv this week grumbling about the senate. the democrats are the ones who have to figure out how they are going to get this agenda passed. host: callers patiently waiting for us. andy in newburgh, indiana, democrat -- annie in newburgh, indiana, democrat. you have to stick by your phone!

next caller -- caller: i want all of trump worshiping fascists do know that biden is leading. he got 100,000 people out of afghanistan. you show me one removal at the end of the war that went smoothly. i want these two guests to talk about when president obama tried to make this country a united country. the terrorist republicans did everything they could to kill his agenda. whenever the things they did was they spread the meme that there was going to be sharia law

because obama was a muslim. the other thing they spread was that there would be health care rationing. what do we have today? have sharia law in texas, we have health care rationing because these republican terrorists want to keep america divided. they want to start a race more. guest: there are still americans and american allies in afghanistan now. there is a reason biden has taken a 20 point dip in the polls since before the afghanistan withdrawal because it has gone so poorly. there could have been a better way and frankly we are leaving it up to five individuals and ad

hoc organize a shins to figure out how -- organizations to figure out how to get people out of afghanistan. host: adrienne elrod? guest: let's remember that biden was hamstrung to the state. his predecessor negotiated with the taliban to have this may withdrawal date. our military did an excellent job getting everybody out. they have made it clear that they are dedicated to getting people out in a safe manner. it should be no surprise to

anybody that we pulled out of afghanistan. i find it rich when you see republicans criticizing this. president biden was the one who had the guts and the willingness to go forward with this withdrawal. host: florida, kurt, good morning. caller: the big issue that i have is we are arguing about the debt ceiling, different things that we passed and we need to have the funding now. why would we now want to pass a giant stimulus or build back better policy, $3 trillion debt when we are arguing about things we have not paid for yet.

the federal government, big programs like social security and medicare are going to be defunct in the near future. here we are arguing about paying for programs we have already. host: do you think the bipartisan infrastructure framework for roads and bridges, is that a worthwhile $1 trillion to spend right now? guest: -- caller: it would be if our government was not dysfunctional. i have little faith that the money will be spent in the right way. i have worked for the government on several navy bases where i see a huge amount of money being wasted because of the way we manage things.

i fully believe it will be a big debacle. guest: the great thing about the build back better act is that it is paid for. it will be paid for. joe biden has been talking with janet yellen. it was reported earlier this week that nancy pelosi and chuck schumer met with janet yellen. the way it will be paid for is by taxing the ultra-wealthy and corporations. who is not going to be taxed to pay for this is anyone making under four hundred thousand dollars a year. i worked for a member -- under $400,000 a year. i worked for a member of the blue dog coalition in congress.

it will take a bipartisan group to address this. the good news about the build back better act is it will be paid for so we will not go further into debt to pay for these critical programs. host: our next caller is jennifer. caller: for starters i would like to speak on behalf of jerry from michigan. as far as racists, not every american is racist. i am republican all the way. as far as biden in office, he has not done half of what trump did to start off with as far as this building bridges. that is -- we needed to but is that what the money is going to be used for?

guest: you are creating programs that will live in permittivity. they do not stop at the 10 year window. we do not score beyond that. anybody who has been a part of capitol hill legislating knows that mostar gimmicks. you are not going to be able to create enough taxation on that upper tier to put real numbers next to one of these acts. that is what joe manchin and kyrsten sinema are saying. they are saying we have spent trillions and trillions of money above and beyond what the u.s. government normally spends and we cannot keep doing that without thinking about what

effect that will have down the road. it will take bipartisan consensus to get some attention on the national debt. democrats have been hypocritical in the past. both parties need to start reading the social security trust report. we are heading for a cliff. . that is why this debate centers around it so much. host: who is the adult in the room who can lead that conversation? guest: i think america is one thing for adults in the room -- wanting for adults in the room. we are figuring out what we can sustainably spend on. we had a defense bill passed

this week with overwhelming majorities in the house, almost 400 votes. you need to have some reason at the top about what can be achieved. guest: this is a $3.5 trillion plan over 10 years. when you look at all of the programs in this legislation that are desperately needed by the american people, where do you draw the line? do you say -- where do you draw the line? do you say, no, we are not going to address the threat of climate change. we have not made a lot of progress over the last 4 years so this is a once in a generation act. it is paid for.

-- it is paid for. you can ask a number of economists. they will tell you our economy needs this. host: one thing we often like to do is take a look at how the issues we are talking about are playing in campaign ads around the country. the ads are out there, including an attack ad from the club for growth, targeting abigail spanberger. [video clip] >> nancy pelosi and abigail spanberger pick your pocket. they are eating into the value of your paycheck. now they are pushing reconciliation.

it could cost your family. higher investment taxes could slam your retirement savings. host: reconciliation, a process that is hard for folks even on capitol hill to understand, but inflation very much a word americans understand. just tidying those two things together a good it ad -- good ad? guest: it is red meat a district that republicans already hold. abigail spanberger has an a good job measuring the republican -- conservative bona fides of her jurisdiction with democratic lawmaking.

there is going to be a lot of talk and it to your point a lot of talk about rising costs in america. they feel grocery costs going up. you are seeing it in the governor's race in virginia as well. you feel like your paycheck is not making up for it. that will continue to be an issue through midterms. host: this is a very tough district -- host: adrienne elrod? guest: this is a very tough district. we can expect these ads. this is what the club for growth does. what the club for growth is missing here is that the build back better plan is really

popular. when you ask the majority of republicans, do you support expanding childcare access, do you support lowering prescription drug costs, do you support lowering the cost of dental and vision in medicare, they also part that. -- they all support that. host: rory cooper brings out the virginia governor's race. some of the ads in that race focused on the restrictive abortion law in texas. [video clip] >> a controversial texas law

that would ban most abortions went into effect this morning. >> it essentially bans all abortions after six weeks, before most women even know they are pregnant. ♪ >> i am going to be really honest with you, the short answer is that in the campaign i can't. when i have the majority, we can start going on offense. i -- we ken starr going on offense -- we can start going on offense. guest: i think this is very smart. this is where republicans are going to get themselves in trouble. the majority of americans want

roe v. wade to be the law of the land. we passed that. that is something we dealt with a long time ago. women do not want to see their fundamental rights as a woman when it comes to their own choice when it comes to pro-life or pro-choice. they do not want the government to meddle in that. when you look at the construct of the voters in virginia, a of them are in suburban districts. a significant majority of voters support codify ing roe v. wade. you will hear them playing this up going into 2022 as well.

host: that ad and this race, which is now being called a tossup, rory cooper? guest: glenn young can is a pretty pragmatic republican -- lenn -- glenn youngkin is a pretty pragmatic republican. that is focused on northern virginia. this is a tossup race in a predominantly blue race because it is a centerleft and independents fleeing policies from the last year and a half in

virginia and looking for someone who will keep schools open. the attacks will not stick because nobody looks at glenn y oungkin and sees him as a donald trump. host: @rorycooper, a guy who often tweets about school policy. this is bill in newfield, new jersey, independent. caller: i have three things i would like to say. the first is the people in washington dc say one thing but they are not telling you the truth. they have hidden reasons for doing the things they want to raise taxes on the rich, why

don't they say, everyone has to pay so should -- social security on your earnings? the second thing is, if you want to tax the rich, why don't we start a national sales tax? if you want to help poor people, make sure there is no federal sales tax on used merchandise. there are simple answers to a lot of things but they do not want those answers. guest: -- host: adrienne elrod, where do

you want to start? guest: i appreciatethe caller' -- i appreciate the caller's ideas. democrats are for an equitable tax system. did the build back better program going back to the paperwork for this, it is taxing corporation. it is making sure that if you are making over $400,000 a year you will be paying your fair share of this. you will have a more equitable tax structure. americans, middle-class families see people who are super wealthy paying less in taxes than they are when it comes to an overall

percentage of what they are paying in taxes. that is something nancy pelosi and chuck schumer are focused on , making sure we have a more fair and equitable tax structure for all americans. host: roy cooper, i will let you take ron in valhalla, new york. caller: i am very annoyed to hear mcconnell saying he is not owing to pass the budget when they spend the money -- going to pass the budget when they spent the money. this is getting to be too much. donald trump spent all this money, gave a big tax cut to the rich.

is congress going to do something about it? host: rory cooper. guest: this is a democratic senate, democratic house, democratic white house. it is easier to blame mitch mcconnell then to learn internally -- look internally for democrats. he is a good bogeyman. frankly, your last caller has some interesting ideas that should be debated. raising the cap on social security is something that should be considered. different types of taxation to balance out how progressive the tax code is it something that should be considered.

they need to try to get it through with 50 votes instead of 60 and they are having a hard time collecting those 50 on their own side. they will do their best to make this about republican obstructionism. host: adrienne elrod, you have a republican. caller: good morning. i have heard an awful lot about the pay floor. with the change in the tax code that is being proposed, i understand the wealthy will now pay instead of 37%, maybe 39.6%.

that is not a whole lot. you keep stating that anyone making more than $400,000 a year will not have an increase. if you have a married couple, one of which who makes over $400,000, another who makes $200,000, the married amount is $450,000. host: what is the question for adrienne elrod? caller: i want to know three specifics on the altar wealthy -- ultra wealthy. i want to know some specifics in

the tax code that will make the wealthy pay more. guest: a a lot of that is still being worked out right now. nancy pelosi met with jenny yellen last week. i understand what the caller is saying, but i think it is important to look at -- you see middle-class families making $65,000 joint income per household and they are paying often times more in taxes when it comes to an overall percentage of their annual income than someone making $1 million a year. that is something the entire democratic caucus want to make more fair and equitable.

you are not going to hurt the middle class families who have been constantly punished time and time again when it comes to taxes. there taxes will be lower. corporations will make up the bulk of the spending for this bill. host: joseph is in the empire state, democrat, good morning. do me a favor, joseph, turned on your tv. caller: my question is regarding tax the rich. my question is to the progressives and the bernie sanders supporters, whatever happened to the proposal several years ago when they proposed a robin hood tax to pay for these

programs? host: adrienne elrod? guest: is he talking about a proposal bernie sanders had during the campaign? host: he is talking about the fate of the bernie sanders agenda. guest: as someone who worked on hillary clinton's campaign in 2016, bernie sanders has had a significant impact on the democratic agenda. he focused on raising the minimum wage to $15. he made that more mainstream. he focused on policies the american people desperately need. he mainstreamed some of these progressive ideas that have now turned into ideas shared by a

lot of republicans. bernie sanders has impacted and influenced in a positive way the overall democratic agenda host:. -- the overall democratic agenda. host: a 3% surcharge on incomes above $5 million -- is that something -- we talked about revenue raisers before elizabeth and bernie sanders. -- elizabeth sanders -- elizabeth warren and bernie sanders. guest: that makes a lot of sense. when we are looking at revenue raisers, they deserve a lot of

credit for getting creative, looking at every nook and cranny where we can raise revenue without impacting middle-class families. this is a prime example of something that has been talked about for a long time. host: rory cooper? guest: i agree bernie sanders has a strong influence in the democratic party. -- i think that is why they are having trouble passing the agenda this week. democrats will have to deal politically -- this country is largely more centrist than bernie sanders gives it credit for and that is why they are going to have a hard time getting these trillions of

dollars passed through the chambers. host: about 10 minutes left in our roundtable, this guy with a question for you mr. kober -- mr. cooper, " please name one proposal congressional republicans have raised that does something other than assure their own power and influence?" guest: pediatric cancer and research does not generally getting a lot of funding and that has been replenished on a bipartisan basis over the years. -- bipartisan basis over the years.

both parties typically get some non-self-preservation legislation passed. it is not the focus of what people watch but we are watching more of a divisive issue this week but there is plenty congress does get done on an irregular basis that they can be proud of. host: bob -- adrienne elrod, you got bob. caller: what happened to responsibility for each individual? what happened to " everything is going to go up if this happens"? she is lying. host: what specifically is she

lying about? caller: that everything is going to go up for everyone. you said something about murdering innocent babies. host: adrienne elrod, what is your response? -- what is your response? guest: the way we want to pay for the build back better plan is by taxing the ultra-wealthy. you will see our taxes go down. all i can tell you facts are fa cts. if the build back better bill passes this is how it is going

to be paid for. host: new york. mark is a democrat. guest: -- caller: what is the last big thing that republicans have done and paid for? can you answer that? guest: you are not going to get me to say that republicans have been fiscally responsible on every bill they have passed. frankly, donald trump made it clear when he was running that he did not care about the national debt. previous to that republicans and democrats on either side have been hypocritical on this issue. we need to be more fiscally responsible. there are a lot of republicans

like myself who have maintained a steady focus on the national debt and we need more to join us because they cannot be only when you are out of power that you start to care about these issues. the democrats have to start thinking about it in terms of how big their spending goes. you do not pay for something that creates forever programs over 10 years. you are not going to have free childcare, free college in this bill over the course of america in 10 years. we know that is not true. both parties need to get more fiscally disciplined. host: are republicans overplaying federal spending and underplaying supply chain issues that are not permanent?

guest: americans have the eyes and years. they see prices rising -- have eyes and ears. they see prices rising. employers are offering well above the minimum wage and cannot recruit workers because they are dealing with the long-term effects of unemployment insurance. you can see the effects of some of these policies and action and republicans are right pointed out -- point it out. host: two the peach state -- to the peach state.

anya. caller: first the pipeline closure, he opened the border during the pandemic, the voting id -- who thinks we should be able to vote without an id? you need an id to do a lot. what about the critical race theory they are teaching in our schools? what about the terrorists in our country? host: adrienne elrod?

guest: i want to focus on what joe biden has done while in office. one of the big things he has done is the pandemic. joe biden has gotten the significant majority of americans receiving at least one vaccination. he is working hard to make sure more get vaccinated. he has made sure we have booster shots for those who are immunocompromised and he is working to get every child he can vaccinated in this country. when it comes to immigration, that is something every president has had to deal with. there is no easy answer. that is something the biden administration is working on closely with his secretary of

homeland security. he wants to work with congress to pass an immigration bill as well. host: here is the real clear politics chart showing widen -- biden's performance approval rating. he is underwater at this point. how concerned should this white house be about being underwater right now eight months into his presidency? guest: any president would love to see his approval numbers higher, by early on in his presidency he has had a lot of challenges he has dealt with.

a lot of this has to do with the pandemic, with the delta variant. you see the administration working with the private sector to ensure more people are vaccinated. the numbers that really matter are the numbers next year. if his numbers are in the mid 40's going into the midterm, that will not be a great place. i think once he passes the build back better act and infrastructure, his numbers will go up because the american people will see a boost in their everyday lives. you will see that reflected in his numbers. host: roy cooper, would you

agree? guest: no i think they should be very worried. host: we have hit 9:00 a.m. caller: this is really for the democratic strategist. the country elected joe biden as a moderate. my question is, how is there a mandate for all of this with a one moat majority? -- one vote majority? that's my question. host: we will hear from michael before we let the panel answer. caller: it was in the aca and then it was taken out, what

about these people that don't show up? why can't they -- you fill out the 1099, that should be collected. thank you. host: we will give you a minute or two to respond. guest: i think i will take the first question about a major change in policy under bidens leadership. i would disagree with that. we had a lot of inaction under trump. but president biden is promoting is legislation that will help the american people in many different ways.

it is something that we need. i challenge anyone to tell me why we don't need paid family leave, why we don't have access to childcare, to lower prescription drug costs. that is something. joe biden is trying to get -- make up for out of work the did not happen. it will help the american people. when it comes to dramatic policy , you're not going to see that. joe biden is a moderate heart. he has always worked with democrats and republicans to get things done. that's what he is trying to do now. i don't think you will see a dramatic shift. i think you will see policies that make up for a lot of time. host: i will give you the final word. guest: joe biden was a moderate compared to bernie sanders. he is still a very liberal

politician. i get concerned when i hear the term once in a generation. that usually means very large change. these are very large bills, progressive agendas. it's all packed into one pill because that's how they can get it through with 50 votes. i like the idea of finding more consensus. we are not seen it on reconciliation. we will see how it plays out this week. host: we appreciate both of your time this morning.