to harm our country and are populous and we stand collectively in the way of doing so. we need to stand together as the world of collective democracies or others will try to lessen and arodys. i don't know if you watch the news just yesterday lavrov from russia went to china and announced they are going to seek a new world order raised upon a new democracy. well that's not democracy. we are a democracy and we have allies that democracies do we know what freedom is. president zelensky is called on us to stand together and we should. thank you for having me today. [applause] announcer: coming up, jen psaki.

right now, the washington journal program. administration on title 42, muzaffar chishti. thank you for giving your time today. host: what isn't and who financially backslid? ? guest: it focuses on immigration. we also have people who look at european migration. we follow migrations or latin america. it is exclusively dedicated to immigration. we are almost exclusively funded

by a foundation of --. host: when it comes to policy, you talked about title 42 be rescinded by the biden administration. at least he decision to do that in the next couple of weeks. what do you think about that decision? guest: it is a decision which was coming for a long time. it was becoming forgot to justify -- it was becoming difficult to justify with title 42, which essentially brought anyone from entering the government. government have the ability to expunge people. --. the policy was put in place since may of 2020. the arguments for it are now becoming increasingly defensible

because of the way the country has changed. we also changed the rules of engagement with people who are traveling all parts of the country, like from the airports and border crossings. we have now decided anyone who is vaccinated can enter the u.s.. even vaccinated people are not allowed at the border. host: what is one of the problems that you could not apply title 42 formally to people at the border or reference they are coming from? -- or wherever they are coming from? guest: yes. it applies to those areas of the border. host: now that it was in place and rescinded, how many explosions took place under the policy? guest: 1.7 million people got

expelled. or 1.7 x functions took place. expunctions took place. 1.2 million of those happen in the biden administration. one point five happened during the trump administration. host: where these families, ? how would you break down those who were? guest: that is a good question. neither the trump are the biden administration expelled children. it expelled some families but not all. frequently, it applies to single adults, whether they are from mexico or central america, a

system other countries. it also applies to families. host: when it comes to those who were expelled, where these mainly people from mexico? were they outside of saccone? what would be the breakdown -- where they outside of new mexico? guest: it was mexicans and central americans. and other countries like guatemala, hunter is. and we talk about countries and a. it can apply to haiti and ecuador. it frequently dependent on

citizens would expect back when they were expelled. unless we have the ability to expel those people to countries of their origin by train, ride was harder to send them to mexico, unless you were mexican or central american. host: our guest until 9:00 to talk about title 42. if you want to ask him questions, (202) 748-8001, for republicans. (202) 748-8002, for democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002. you probably heard now that title 42 being removed, what happens as far as searching at the order where people are coming there. are these legitimate concerns? guest: of course they are concerned. we have had significant migrants coming to the border for the last many years. even during the pandemic

obviously people kept on coming. there's going to be an increased flow at the border. this policy is not going to go into effect. that means it is not going to be formally defendant on till the end of may. they are giving us two months to put it into place into the system, which will respond to some aspect of loss. aws. also, putting -- which will take off some of the pressure that is expected. when the policy is fully lifted. host: this came from a senator from arizona. he wrote this in a press release. saying this is the wrong position. it is not assessable to end title 42 without a plan.

my numerous visits to the southern border and conversations with law enforcement, it is clear that this administration's lack of a plan to deal with this crisis will further strain our border of communities. this is a democratic senator from arizona. where do you think -- what do you think about those concerns he is laying out? guest: i think it is valid. i do not think it is fair to say that the administration does not have a plan. actually it is with respect to the engagement of other countries. we can go more into that. it is putting in place a more systematic response in terms of a more coordinated multi-agency response. including, fema with planning on how to receive people if there is a big surge. then there is working with mexico and other parties in the region, like costa rica and canada.

so, there certainly a much more systematic plan in place then the administration gives credit for. but how effective that is going to be? we do not know. i do not want to say there is no plan. host: the homeland security executive said once it is lifted, title eight still will continue. if that is the case, what is the course of action under that of those who are wanting entry into the country? guest: title is the traditional immigration framework under which nash. --. they can be just a room in a very short time if they have no basis to enter the united states.

in that regard, it will take longer, 90 minutes. but they can still make a u-turn for people to return to mexico. the difference is people expect fear of prosecution upon return to their country. they have to be under title eight. we call that credible fear determination. that then goes -- if they passed the test, they are scheduled for a hearing for the immigration judge. that is what is going to happen under title eight. host: we have a guest with us. if you want to ask questions, do so up until 9:00. we will start with brian, brian in michigan.

independent line. you are on with our guest. go ahead with your question or comment. caller: thanks. you can hear me, pedro? we never know at this end. here are go. united states is a sovereign nation and we help the world. we are also a nation on loss. here's the deal, we do not want anyone coming here that is breaking our laws. they need to go back to their own home and fix their country. this is about respect. i respect all countries including new mexico and brazil did all of them. they all have the capacity to fix their own country. when i hear u.n. initiative, this, that and the other, the united states worried about any poor square-mile. we as a american, i wish to remain near those numbers. i do not need mexico numbers,

140 per square mile. why can't we just stay with sovereign nations? if you're going to come here, you're going to have to come here illegally. we keep dealing with the same things from the 70's. the united states is a sovereign nation. host: you made your point. we will let our guest respond. guest: part of the sovereignty is to defend and protect our law. you're absolutely right. we are a nation of law. we operate under the law. it is also part of our law that anyone

press sec. psaki: happy friday! ok. so one -- i will start by outlining