tv Washington Journal Open Phones CSPAN June 20, 2022 11:30am-12:03pm EDT
at c-span.org. >> c-span has unfiltered coverage to the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine, ranging from the president, the pentagon, as well as congress. we also have international perspectives from the united nations and statement from foreign leaders. all on the c-span networks. the c-span now free mobile app. and c-span.org/ukraine. you can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalists on the ground. go to c-span.org/ukraine. host: washington times front page this morning's reads "pence praised as hero of the day on january 6." they say he saved democracy. here is jamie raskin, democrat of maryland, and a member of the
january 6 committee yesterday on sunday's "meet the press." [video clip] >> and a time of absolutely skinless betrayal of oath of office and crimes being committed all over the place, somebody who does their job and sticks to the law will stand up as a hero on that day. on that day, he was a hero for resisting all of the pressure campaigns in the coercive efforts to get him to play along with this continuation of the big lie, this big joke that he could somehow call off the proceedings himself. it likely would have forced everything into the house of representatives for contingent election, where the gop they had the majority because we vote in a 12 amendment contingent
election. host: congressman jamie raskin on "meet the press" yesterday. former president trump was at the state and freedom conference in nashville. here is what he had to say about the former vice president after the january 6 committee held their third public hearing the day before. [video clip] >> one guy got up and said that he heard me calling mike pence a wimp. honestly, i am the president of the united states. how many people listen to me? i don't even know who these people are. but i never called mike pence a wimp. i never called him a wimp. mike pence had a chance to be great. he had the chance to be frankly historic. but just like bill barr and the rest of these weak people, mike, and i say it sadly because i
like him, but mike did not have the courage to act. bill barr was afraid of certain things and you know what they were. please don't impeach me, don't impeach me, bill barr. what's wrong with being impeached? i got impeached twice. i don't want to be impeached. the election was perfect. it was so good. the election was perfect. the democrats are sitting back saying, there is no way you we are going to impeach this guy. it's terrible. mike was afraid of whatever he was afraid of. as you heard a year and a half ago, mike pence had absolutely no choice but to be a human conveyor belt, even if the votes were fraudulent. they said he had to send the votes, couldn't do anything. i said, well, what happens when
you have more votes than you had voters? it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter. nothing matters. host: former president trump from friday's faith and freedom coalition conference in nashville. this morning, we are asking your view on the former vice president mike pence. there are the numbers on your screen. dial in. let's hear from john in new jersey, republican. caller: good morning. i love mike pence. he got trump the nomination and the election. he brought in the evangelicals. he's a good guy. the only thing i will say, it was clear that the election, you could say, with the male-imbalance, which was unprecedented in our history, there was a big area for fraud. in the typical cities.
philly, detroit, atlanta, etc. trump should have -- he did everything legal in my opinion. did he go overboard? perhaps. host: what do you think about the role the former vice president played on that day? january 6? caller: i don't blame him. i don't blame her. -- blame bill barr. this is proof that you could not stop an election from going. we are better off losing the election, so to speak and then , coming back. that's the way our democracy should work. you don't always win, you don't always lose, and that's why we are still here you have to be resilient. host: let me ask you this. who should run in 2024 on the republican ticket? caller: that's a good question.
i think trump would win. he is still divisive. i like to santos, of course. i think he is representative of what's happening in the country. host: what about the former indiana governor, former vice president mike pence? caller: he is a great guy, but he has no charisma. he will not bring in enough people. he's a really great guy. i really do like him. i like our cabinet that we have. we have great people. i will just quickly say, the cabinet for biden is inferior to our cabinet. host: let me hear from joe in maryland, democratic: --
democratic caller. your view on the 48 vice president? caller: he was the hero of the day. that was american exceptionalism. he did his duty and he did it well. i think he really saved us from what was there. if he was to run as a republican, i might even switch. host: you might? why? caller: i just think he would be a better man for our time, maybe help heal the republican party. and bring us all a little closer together. host: if it was in a general election matchup, president biden versus mike pence, who would you vote for? caller: oh, man, that's a good question. that's a good one. i would really have to see. i mean, how things turn out here into the future. if biden can turn around things that are going right now that , would be my vote for him.
but as things are as they are right now i would give pence a , shot. host: joe there, democratic caller in maryland. let me show this piece by cnn. "why you should hit pause on the mike pence is a hero storyline." this is what he reports. he said one aspect of the pence narrative pushed on thursday doesn't seem to entirely hold up under scrutiny. it is whether pence was, from the very beginning, entirely opposed to the idea of using his power as president of the senate to overturn the election results on january 6. here is how pence's counsel described pence is mindset during thursday's hearing. the vice president's first instinct when he heard the theory was that there was no way our framers would ever have but one person in a role to have decisive impact on the outcome of the election. but that seems to run counter to
what we know about pence's actions before january 6. most notably in a phone call with the former vice president dan quayle. another founder of indiana politics was on the board for terms politics. when exchange between the two was paralleled by robert costa. over and over, hence asked if there was anything he could do. mike, you have no flexibility on this, 9, 0, put it away. pence pressed again, you don't know the position i am in. i do know the position you're in. i also know what the law is. you listen to the parliamentarians. that's all you do. you have no power. anita in fort wayne, alabama. the. we will go to you. what do you think of the former vice president? caller: good morning. i think he is a good guy.
i think he is a god-fearing guy. i think a lot of this was misconstrued and i don't think we know all of it. if mike pence ran against a democrat, i would vote for him. i'm not necessarily considering myself to be democrat, republican, or independent. i vote for the one that i feel like serves our country. i believe everything that's going on now in our country should be looked at and drop the january 6 stuff. we are tired of hearing this junk. it's over. put it behind us. move forward. yes, it was unfortunate. but we had a lot of other bad things that happened before this happened and none of that is being addressed.
donald trump, i believe, honestly and truly believe what he is saying. who knows really if he is right except for one person and that's almighty god. he knows the truth. we don't. but i think all this needs to be dropped and somebody needs to step up and have some backbone, and address what's going on in our country. us as senior citizens are struggling to put food on the table and buy gas. it's ridiculous. i've never seen anything like this. host: let me go back to what you said about if mike pence was on the republican ticket, you would vote for him. do you think the former president should also run? what if it's a primary matchup between those two? caller: former president trump? host: mmhm. caller: that would be a hard
decision. i think trump did a lot of good for our country because i had money left at the end of the month. i have no family left, so i have to take care of myself. at that time, i was doing really good. when biden got in office, it all turned around. i don't know. i don't know if mike pence would have a better financial head on him other than trump. that's a good question. that really is a good question. i don't know. host: thanks for calling in. you have got time to think about it, for sure. we haven't eaten -- we haven't even gotten through the 2022 midterm election. she mentioned the january 6 committee. she wants to see it all go away. however, the panel has held three out of what appears to be seven public hearings. they will hold another one tomorrow. 1 p.m. eastern time.
we will have live coverage of that on c-span3, our video app. you can download our mobile video app. it is called c-span now. or you can watch on our website, c-span.org. howard in indiana, a democratic caller. you are from the vice president's home state. what do you think of him? caller: not very much. i didn't vote for him, didn't support him while he was governor. he was promoting a law that restricted religious freedoms for many people. but it supported religious freedoms for certain groups. i think he was an utter failure as a president. i think he's a failure as a vice president. he should've come out publicly much earlier letting the public , know that trump was lying, that what he was saying was not true. there is no right of the vice
president to do anything close to what he is talking about. ultimately, he made it clear to trump that he didn't have the right to do that in the first place. that doesn't gain him anything. he should have done his job. he did his job that day. good, he got paid for that day. that was his job to do what he did. he is not a hero for that. host: your argument is echoed by kathleen parker in the "washington post" about the former vice president. she writes in her piece, "courage in the face of fire is surely commendable, but is it courageous to do the legally correct thing? does what mike pence did and did not do you justify that beautification of a public servant? only a country where duty has lost its currency and honesty is rare does this rise to the level of heroics. legally, pence new he had no choice.
truth be told, he did waiver. he did consult others, including, as we read, dan quayle, in search of a legal way to meet trump's illegal demand. pence, who hasn't spoken depends -- who hasn't spoken to trump in years, is set to run in 2024 whether the former commander-in-chief decides to get back in the race or not. he will need even more courage and a spine of steel. whatever it took for him to arrive at the decision to keep trump away from the 2024 ticket is almost enough for americans to register and vote in the primary for 2020 four. whatever follows could be worse than another trump presidency." that is kathleen parker's opinion in the "washington
post." jason in north carolina. independent. we will get your thoughts on this. go ahead. caller: good morning. as far as mike pence goes, i put him in the category of a lot of other establishment persons in government, be it on the left or the right. i think they like to keep us arguing all the time while they steal our money, to be honest with you. a lot of things about january 6, that are not being addressed, are the election issues. there's a reason people were up there on january 6. there is evidence that the 2020 election was stolen. i myself think the election was stolen after seeing the arizona audit. 2000 meals and other evidence. host: did you listen to the generous six committee hearings where they showed testimony by the former attorney general bill barr who said he told the , president, we investigated this and there is not evidence that there was widespread fraud
enough that it would've changed , election results?" caller: i don't believe that for a second. like i say, if you look at the 2000 meals, even just the arizona election itself that , contradicts what bill barr is saying. that's a bunch of discrepancies that never should have been signed off on. it shouldn't have been certified if you can't prove where the votes came from. they have a broken chain of custody. host: nick is in delray beach, florida. republican. we are talking about your view of the former vice president. what do you think? caller: good morning. first, mike pence is a coward. he's always been a coward. like the last caller said, he is a republican establishment guy. you read an article by kathleen parker from the "washington 'compost'." she talks about the disaster of the trump presidency.
what exactly during donald trump's presidency was a disaster? inflation, gas prices, food prices, baby formula, foreign wars, what exactly was this disaster during the doll trump presidency? we are talking about a theft of an election. like the last caller, i don't need to listen to bill barr or mike pence to know that election was stolen. i have one question. you can answer it, any of your callers can answer it. if there was no theft of that election, why was it necessary in atlanta to lie and say there was a flood where they were counting votes and everyone had to leave? host: nick in florida, who says the former vice president is a coward for not going through with what the former president asked him to do on january 6. let's go to the january 6 public hearing, the third one they held
last week on thursday. during that hearing, pete angular showed pictures of former vice president after he was taken to a secure location in the capitol on that day. he also asks pence's former legal counsel greg jacob about what happened after the breach of the capitol. [video clip] >> we understand that congressional leaders and others were evacuated from the capital complex during the attack. we would like to show you what happened after the vice president was evacuated from the senate. >> the select committee has obtained never before seen photos from the national archives that show vice president pence sheltering in a secure underground location as rioters overwhelmed the capital. at vice president pence is seen 4:19 p.m., looking at a tweet
the president had just sent, a tweet asking the rioters to leave the capitol. after 4.5 hours spent working to restore order, the vice president returned to the senate floor to continue the certification of electors. >> vice president pence was the focus of the violent attack. mr. jacob, did the vice president leave the complex during the attack? >> he did not. >> can you please explain why he refused to leave the capitol complex? >> one we got down to the secure location the secret service , directed us to get into the cars, which i did. then, i noticed the vice president had not. i got out of the car i had gotten into and i understood that the vice president had refused to get into the car. the head of his secret service detail had said, "i assure you
we are not going to drive out of the building without your permission." the vice president had said something to the effect of, "tim, i know you, i trust you, but you are not the one behind the wheel." the vice president did not want to take any chance that the world would see the vice president of the united states fleeing the united states capital. he was determined that we would complete the work we had set to do out that day. it was his duty to see it through. the rioters who had breached the capitol would not have the satisfaction of disrupting the proceedings beyond the day on which they were supposed to be completed. >> let me see if i understand this right. you were told to get in the cars how any of the vice president's staff got into cars while he did not? >> most of us.
host: from the january 6 committee hearing last week. some democrats are calling the former vice president a hero for his decisions that day, on january 6, 2021. we are asking you this morning your view of the former vice president. mike in chesapeake, virginia, democratic color. what do you think? caller: i've never been a great mike pence fan. i've never been a great dick cheney fan. but the more i watch this hearing and everything, i think pence actually saved america. i think he did his job. liz cheney is doing her job. when i came home and i turned on the computer, and i saw what was happening to the capitol i , couldn't believe it. i had to turn on the big tv to
watch it because i couldn't believe what was happening. after the election, you could see trump stacking the cards to do something. i was so worried at what was going to happen. thank god that the military did not get involved more or whatever. he was trying to get some people in the military to get involved. i feel for those people that came there. maybe they felt wronged. but some of those people signed and owed to the government to protect the constitution, to protect the building they attacked. what is going on? that was just wrong. to me, it was nothing but a gigantic coup. and it is gigantic lisette to see that our country came to this point. host: would you ever vote for the former vice president?
caller: i probably would not vote for pence, but i probably would vote for liz cheney. and i've never been a dick cheney fan, but i am a liz cheney fan now. i was a republican back in the reagan years. but reagan did some stuff i did not agree with and it hurt my family. i have been a democrat ever since. i was a good republican before that. i voted for nixon, voted for ford supported the vietnam war. , i don't know. i've seen so much stuff the republicans have done lately that i don't think i would ever vote republican again. but i will give liz cheney credit. i can't member the other guy with her. host: adam kinzinger from illinois. he is retiring from congress. caller: yeah, and that is such a shame, too. it seems like a lot of republicans are retiring.
maybe they should stay and help. i know things look tough for mr. biden right now. i don't know, we should pull together. i think congress is messing up. host: mike, i believe that there. debbie in florida, republican. your view this morning? caller: my view is i would not vote for pence. i will tell you why. no one on that hearing for january 6 has a defender attorney in that room for trump. they are all prosecutors. no one is a defender. they keep talking about, there was a big lie. the big lie is the biden administration. the democrat that was just on the phone with you, he is brainwashed. no one believes biden won that election. i've never believed it.
trump only wanted pence to go to the legislation of the states where they had democrat court , judges and other democrats that would not allow it. pence should have sent those votes back to the legislation. that was his job. don't say pence didn't have a job that day. he failed the united states of america. host: all right, debbie. susan in milford, pennsylvania. democratic caller. caller: hi, greta. host: good morning. caller: vice president pence came through when he had to. but i think it really showed the clear differences between donald trump and him. donald trump is full of lies, a con man.
really, following the other dictators of the world, the one from north korea, putin. in america, i really think trump was trying to pull a putin. he wanted to be just like putin, in control of america. everybody just listen to me. i tell the truth. what i say goes. people stopped thinking. use your critical thinking. host: suze, was former vice president mike pence a hero that day? caller: he followed the constitution. he listened. he had an open mind and he listened to those people that knew the right thing to do for the government, to follow, to not give the country away, to someone that wanted it, to steal it and do whatever he wanted to
do with it, which was trump. he said no. dan quayle says this. my lawyers tell me this, that i cannot follow what you are saying, trump. trump, you are wrong. host: here is a tweet from one of our viewers, who says, "too little, not enough, and too late." mike in florida, we will go to you next. caller: the drama is unbelievable with this thing because, very simply had trump , and pence said no to these electoral college votes, what happens is it goes to the house of representatives and they vote. believe me, the democrats would have voted for biden. that would've let everybody see which party was really in charge
of who the next president was. they depend -- they pretend like it was so close, that democracy was threatened. there is a constitution. people have very little faith in it, especially the democrats. they should've have just gone with it. everybody would've gone wild. gee, we have this failsafe, this document. host: your view of the vice president? caller: i think he should have thought it through a little bit and let it go to the house. because there worship and against that went on during the election, no doubt. the mass mailing out of ballots, ballot harvesting. i actually don't think california is eligible due to ballot harvesting. if that is not the most crooked type of voting you can have, it is unbelievable. host: let's listen to liz cheney, the vice chair of the
vice president to do was not just wrong, it was illegal and unconstitutional. we will hear details in today's hearing but please consider these points. first, president trump was told repeatedly that mike pence lacked the constitutional and legal authority to do what president trump was demanding he do. this is testimony from mark short, the vice president chief of staff who served in the trump administration in multiple positions over four years. >> to pick up on this, was it your impression that the vice president had directly conveyed his position on these issues to the president, not just to the world through the letter, but directly to president trump? >> many times. >> and he had been consistent in conveying his position? >> very consistent. >> president trump worked with a
lawyer to do so anything. quote, based on the evidence, the court finds it is more likely than not that president trump and dr. eastman did honestly conspire to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6, 2021. >> watch washington journal in its entirety at a time i going to our website, c-span.org. next, a discussion on russia's blockade of the black sea and its impact on global food security. the hudson institute is the host of this event. ♪ >>
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