>> american history tv, saturdays on c-span 2, slowing the people and events that tell the american story. on the presidency, revealing the life of first lady martha washington, from her surviving personal letters, with an author. and a research editor at the university of virginia. 8:00 p.m. on lectures in history, a talk about american churches and religion during world war i. how american pastors, ministers and rabbis spoke about the great war before and after the u.s. entered the conflict. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span 2. find the full schedule on your program guide or watch any time at c-span.org/history. >> next, incumbent wisconsin

democratic governor tony evers faces republican challenger tim michaels in a debate for this year's governors race. abortion rights and high crime rates have been major topics in the midterm election races. this is the one and only debate for governor. former president donald trump has endorsed tim michael's in the race. >> that evening, the wisconsin broadcasters association are pleased to welcome you to this gubernatorial debate. tonight's event originates from madison, wisconsin, at wisc tv. we have a team across the state involved in bringing this to you. tonight's debate continues our long-standing commitment to excellence and public service. it is supported by a grant from the wisconsin association of independent colleges and

universities, and the wisconsin counties association. let's go to our moderator, a veteran wisconsin broadcaster and professor of leadership and media integrity at loyola university chicago, jill geisler. >> good evening. on tuesday, november eighth, wisconsin voters will choose between two candidates for governor, incumbent democrat tony devers, and republican challenger tim michael's. they have agreed to do one date before the election and this is it. here are the rules to which everyone has agreed. with each question from our statewide panel of journalists, candidates will be told the length of time they have for a response, one minute or 30 seconds. we all see countdown clocks. when candidates hit their time limit, i will let them know. if they continue, i will note it and the microphone will cease to work. if candidates failed to answer a

specific question or change the subject, i will exercise the moderators option to note that and give them just 30 seconds to provide a specific answer. please note, this debate provides an additional service for voters. many complex issues require deeper context and verification, especially during debates when claims and counterclaims, and statistics and shorthand is used. thanks to our data team, we will provide you links to additional research materials about our key topics. just follow the link you see on the screen or follow us on facebook, instagram or twitter to get that additional info. the order of response for the first and last questions will determine -- were determined by coin toss. with that, let's begin with the first question from dan hagan in ryan lander. >> i want to ask about rising

prices. this winter, wisconsin families can expect to pay at least $100 more than last winter to heat their homes. a gallon of gas costs $.75 more than last year and a grocery store receipt is likely around 10% higher. how would you help the people of wisconsin who are struggling right now? governor, you have one minute. gov. evers: thank you for the question and thank you to the broadcasters for inviting us today and making this happen. and thanks to the voters watching. i have a plan around this. obviously inflation is a worldwide phenomenon. the impact of that inflation is spread across the entire world. that said, i do have a plan. i have been hoping the republicans would come in this session and we could do it right now, but my plan is this. to mitigate against inflation, we are going to lower our taxes

on middle-class folks in wisconsin by 10%, we are going to get rid of the minimum markup law on gasoline that could save people up to $.30 per gallon, and also some tax credit issues. most important, most important is the one about childcare. a child care credit. that way we are giving people the money, they can keep the money and we can mitigate against inflation. moderator: mr. michaels? mr. michaels: thank you for hosting this and thank you you to the panelists, and that you for tuning into night and taking part in this important political process. it is a big election in a few weeks, and the future of wisconsin is at stake. we have had weak leadership under this administration, but hope is on the way. i have been a bold leader my entire life. what are some of the problems? joe biden, week on inflation my canceling the keystone pipeline. we can put more money in people's pockets.

i am a businessman, i understand macro economics, and understand how to read a balance sheet. i will do everything i can to put more money in people's pockets, to help them with the price at the pump and the price of groceries. we will do massive tax reform, get more money in people's pockets in wisconsin, and the hard-working, taxpaying people of wisconsin will spend more money on goods and services, helping make our economy even more robust. moderator: let's go to michelle mccormick in green bay. >> here's what we know about shared revenue in wisconsin. when it comes to collecting taxes, it comes -- it goes up, but when it comes to sharing money, it remains stagnant. what will it take to enable green bay and cities across the state to maintain and sustain public health and safety in the long-term? mr. michaels, you have a minute. mr. michaels: the problems across the state are vast.

crime is up, school stores -- scores are down. the best decisions are made at the local level. people in county and municipal government, village presidents, they are closest to the people and hear the problems viewed we need to make sure there is ample funds at the local level to solve the problems. the bureaucracies in washington, d.c. are vast, there bureaucracies in madison need proper leadership. i'm going to make sure we have adequate funding for the big problems. we will spend as much money as any governor ever has on education but we will spend it wisely, because right now that is not happening. we will have plenty of money for law enforcement because crime is surging across wisconsin. everywhere i go from superior to kenosha, people are concerned about crime. i'm going to provide bold leadership market crime down, and make sure law enforcement has the funds needed. >> just specifically, shared revenue formula, what would be

your vision for that? >> there is plenty of money in government. 43.5 billion dollars spent every year. that is the taxpayers money. i'm going to sit down with the legislature and the smart people, by lieutenant governor, and make sure we come up with the right formulas and adequately make sure there is funding for the issues that the people of wisconsin are so concerned about, and at the top of the list is inflation, then crime, followed by education. i am here to tell you, help is on the way. moderator: governor, the question is specifics on shared revenue into the formulas and what communities can expect. gov. evers: shared revenue is a big deal in the state of wisconsin. when i ran for office the first time, i made a pledge to the counties and municipalities across the state that we would increase shared revenue. i tried to do it in my first budget and my second budget, and there were regional things to

do, -- they were regional -- they were reasonable things to do, 2% or 4%. this is the money that comes into wisconsin state government and we send it back out to the municipalities. every year, you see a zero, zero, at zero, as far as how much money was provided to municipalities. the next budget, it is my top priority. we will have a 4% each year of the biennium, and that helps people do the hard work, whether it is on crime or social services, you name it, they do the hard work. moderator: time is up. we will move on now. the next question from dr. harris. >> governor, the milwaukee neighborhood news service had an article this fall that reported the milwaukee police department

seized 8076 guns from generally first 2020 through july 8, 2022. nearly half of those firearms came from several neighborhoods with north side zip codes. given the adage, so goes milwaukee so goes the state, how would you curb the presence of illegal firearms in the state? gov. evers: there are several things we have to do but i'm going to go back to shared revenue. in order for the great people in milwaukee to do their work, they need to support financially from the state, whether it is issues about training or any other things going on in the city of wisconsin -- the city of madison. that said, shared revenue will be increased by this administration. in addition, i actually believe we have some really thoughtful things we can do around guns. universal background checks are one, at flag laws or another. time and again when the

marquette university poll talked about this, 80% of the people in wisconsin said these are reasonable things we can do to provide safety in that arena. so let's do that, let's bring people together and have this discussion and make some changes in wisconsin. moderator: mr. michaels? mr. michaels: thank you for the question about crime specifically in milwaukee. but all across the state, crime is running rampant. guns? i have a solution. let's talk about crime in milwaukee. i spent a lot of time in the inner-city and milwaukee. people say, why are you spending time on the near north side or south side of milwaukee? because i'm going to be a governor for all. milwaukee is not the problem, milwaukee has a problem and i'm going to fix it. we will get crime down and education scores up to provide opportunity for the young men and women that have no option

but to be on the streets. guns are everywhere. i was speaking with officials at the marathon county sheriff's department. they told me 75% of recent homicides were stabbings. the left wants to take away guns and things that is the problem. i am a responsible gun owner and i will protect your second amendment rights. moderator: there is a follow-up question. >> mr. michaels, 19 states have red flag yells -- red flag laws. universal background check did not make it out of committee. what is your stance on extreme risk orders and universal background checks? mr. michaels: i would like to his plain red flag laws. -- explain red flag laws. a disk rente -- a disgruntled ex could say i feel in danger,

and your guns get taken away. we needed to uphold the constitution and make sure law-abiding gun owners are not having guns consecrated -- guns confiscated. we will have deer hunters hit the was in a few weeks and i will be one of them. with the millions of guns in wisconsin, we need to make sure responsible gun owners will not become subjects to have their guns taken away without due process because they have rights and our constitution is at stake. moderator: governor e verse, -- evers, your response? gov. evers: i have supported both of those, they are reasonable things. marquette university has pulled this many times. 70% to 80%. responsible gun owners don't have to worry about red flag laws because it will never begin

issue for them. what we want to do is make sure people that are in danger, making threats or thinking about hurting themselves, and it has to go in front of a judge, it has due process. we have to have law-enforcement people go in front of the judge to make the request. that said, 70% to 80% of the people in wisconsin support this. the hunters supported also. this is something we can do. will it solve every problem? of course not, no solution will do that. but it seems reasonable and the people of wisconsin want it. the will of the people is the law of the land. moderator: you mentioned red flag laws, what about background checks? gov. evers: i certainly believe background checks should also be there. universal background checks are common sense, just common sense. moderator: now we go to our next

questioner, from cbs 58. >> let's talk about the election process. recounts , investigations andan audit into the 2020 -- investigations and audits into the 2020 election found no evidence of fraud. but there are still voters that believe there was fraud, and they think they will not have a vote. what is your response? governor, you have a minute. gov. evers: the last election was safe, secure, and there was not fraud. honest to god. one thing people are concerned about is we have people like my opponent that continue to talk about massive fraud without having any idea or any specifics. it was safe, fair, and we can

have confidence in our election. when someone talks about issues like this, they don't know if they are going to certify the presidential election -- certification is something the governor does. they do it in a very specific way. when my opponent says i'm not sure if the legislature since we something that says biden lost and trump won, i'm not sure if i sign that. you have to, that's part of the process. voting rights are on this ballot. it is radical to say i'm not sure how this works out or that fraud happened when it did not happen. mr. michaels: thank you for the question. to clarify, you need to go further than your question. there is a nonpartisan legislative commission that did find illegal voting did happen in the last election. they also found out clerks were given illegal guidance by the wisconsin elections commission.

i am a candidate today. i wish all of the election integrity issues were fixed in previous administrations but they weren't. i will make sure once i am governor, we never have these questions again about election integrity. i will work with the legislature, we will get these bills right. the bill that governor evers vetoed, and we will make sure we don't have westerns about out-of-state billionaires taking over our election process. i will make sure the ballot harvesting stops. i will make sure we stop the indefinitely confined status. we will never have questions. and of course therefore i will certify any elections after i am elected governor. moderator: just a reminder that our data team is posting information about all of these topics that you can read more about, including fact checks on these issues. let's go to our next questioner, from pbs wisconsin. >> on the issue of abortion,

please specify what your position is on access to abortion in wisconsin following the reversal of roe v. wade, including whether you favor criminalizing abortion pills through the mail, and people in wisconsin crossing state lines to get an abortion in a state where it is legal. first to you, mr. michaels. one minute. mr. michaels: thank you for the question. the governor and the left have spent tens of millions of dollars mischaracterizing my position, calling me a radical. i am pro-life and i make no apologies for that. i will tell you who the real radical is, real radical is governor evers, for allowing abortion as late as at the time of birth. he even vetoed the born alive bill, which would allow a doctor to murder a baby after birth. that is extreme, that is radical. i am a common sense guy and i have listened to the people and i will always listen to the people. i have said if a bill is put

before me from the legislature that is a direct representation of the people that has an exception for rape and incest, i would sign that bill. the stuff about are you going to prohibit pills through the mail, if it is against the law, it is against the law. i'm not against contraception. moderator: the other question was crossing state lines for legal abortions elsewhere. mr. michaels: i am a reasonable guy and if people say -- and people say i have a lot of common sense. that is something we have to work out but i'm not gonna be a radical guy with checks at the border. moderator: governor? gov. evers: the bottom line here is this -- women should have the ability and the right to make decisions about their health care, including reproductive health care. that includes abortion.

my opponent is radical on this issue, and frankly, he is radical because it is not consistent with wisconsin values. we have had 50 years of roe v. wade and it has worked here. we should go back there. to think we are in a position in the state of wisconsin where we have a governor saying we will criminalize abortion, we will throw doctors in jail, and we will not have any exceptions for rape or incest, those positions taken by my opponent are radical. they are not consistent with wisconsin values. moderator: the next question from amy dupont. >> i would like to talk about health care costs. according to the wisconsin hospitals association, $1.1 billion in unpaid badger care patient costs are not covered by

the state, so that is shift and then on all wisconsin businesses and families. how would you reduce the reimbursement gap to lower health care costs for all wisconsinites? gov. evers: health care is a huge issue for everybody in this country. it will continue to be that way. i believe one of the ways we can make our health system the best it could be, it could join a bunch of other states, there are only 12 that haven't taken medicare expansion. if we can take that opportunity from the federal government -- and they're all sorts of republican governors that have gone along with this -- we would be able to put good health care, good health insurance to 120 6000 people in the state of wisconsin that friendly have that good coverage. in addition to that, we would reap another billion dollars

from the federal government to help fix the issues around maternal and child wellness, and a lot of other issues we have. moderator: thank you, your time is up. mr. michaels: thank you. health care is a very important issue and i know that. at my corporation, we provide platinum health care for all of our employees. we know if you take care of people, good things will happen. badger care and family care were started by governor tommy thompson, who endorsed me. he had a great vision and it helped millions of people over the last 20-plus years. i will make sure there are adequate dollars there for people. so they can receive the health care that is needed. if we have people that are healthy and have proper health care, they will be more productive, they can get to work, help raise their family, be part of the community. we need to make sure health care is there for all. i will make sure the funding is

available. i am not just a candidate or politician talking about it, i have done it and i will do it as governor. moderator: next question. >> let's move on to conflicts of interest. this is what the wisconsin state statute says. no state public official may use their public position to obtain financial gain or anything of substantial value for the private benefit of themselves or their immediate family. governor evers, you are expected to adhere to that during your term of office, mr. michaels, your business has done more than $1 billion with the state. how will you adhere to that law? mr. michaels: great question and thank you for allowing me to clear this up. every single bid we have won, we were the low bidder in a transparent process. if you go back over the past few years, we saved the state tens

of millions of dollars and provided a very high quality product. the day after election day, between then and inauguration day, i will completely divest from michaels corporation. there will be no conflict of interest. i am a man of highest integrity. i was 12 years in the army on active duty, attaining the rank of major. i was hand selected to be the commander of the honor guard at the tomb of the unknown soldier. and the business my brothers and i helped grow to over 8000 a day, that doesn't happen without having integrity and firm leadership should i will do the right thing here and the people of wisconsin have no concerns. moderator: governor? gov. evers: certainly i have met all of the legal parameters that are posted for the governor of the state of wisconsin. i am a guy from plymouth who was a teacher, there aren't many things that are problematic

about this. i understand that my opponent would do the divesting and all of that, but there is and i am sure they will continue to seek bids from the state of wisconsin. i am not impinging his honesty, but how do we actually know how that is going to work? do we need to change the process so it isn't a problem? i have read it is a problem with some people but i am not an expert. i think it will look fishy. moderator: let's go to our next question or michelle mccormick. >> according to the department of revenue, our state has a projected budget surplus of an estimated $5 billion. as governor, what will you do with the money? you have a minute. gov. evers: thank you for that question. frankly, one of the reasons that

amount of money is in our rainy day fund and our surplus is because we did the right thing during the pandemic. we made sure when we looked at revenue coming in during the pandemic that people that worked in small businesses were suffering, farmers were suffering, our tourism industry and restaurants. we took about $1 billion of the money we received from the federal government from the trump administration and the biden administration and invested in that. we had a good outcome, we got the lowest unemployment ever and the highest number of people working ever. our economy is strong. we need to use this, as i said before, 10% tax cut, get rid of the minimum markup law, and provide tax credits. moderator: mr. michaels?

mr. michaels: thank you for the question. $5.8 billion surplus, that is the rainy day fund. but this administration thinks that is a good thing. i think it is awful. that is your tax dollars. the people of wisconsin were overtaxed by nearly $6 billion. we are going to do massive tax reform, i will put that money back into the hard-working people's pockets. that will stimulate our economy. i'm telling you, this excess in texas some people think is a good thing is wrong. there are a lot of needs out there but there is a $43.5 billion annual state budget right now. we need to have businessman in there who can do a proper analysis. do a proper analysis. we have 16 operating divisions at michels, do a deep dive monthly and formal review quarterly. i know how to make government deficient.

you are paying too much in taxes, but help is on the way. >> next question goes to dan hagan. >> climate change is already affecting wisconsinites, i have reported on ojibwe people in northern wisconsin and their wild rice. how should wisconsin respond to a changing climate, one minute? tim: i was unaware of the wild rice problem. but you are tying it to climate change. i want a clean planet for my children, my future grandchildren. i want clean drinking water. i want to make sure everyone does the right thing. and at michels corporation, we are a green leader. we have an award from the dnr for our great environmental initiatives.

climate change, there is a lot of discussion about that. has the temperature gone up? the temperature has fluctuated route the history of this world and we can say it happened because of man's actions in the last 100 years. but we should all be responsible like we are at michels corporation and do everything we can to make sure we have a healthy planet. >> the question was what would you do for wisconsin specifically? tim: as governor, i am going to be a bold leader and make sure we do all the right things. we are much work with the dnr. the dnr has a lot of problems, it is close to being broken. i know how to fix that. and we are going to make sure the people of wisconsin know that they are being taken care of and that we are going to take care of the environment. >> governor? gov. evers: instead of blah blah , i am going to talk about our

state energy plan. it is working well in wisconsin. we have actually been able to increase solar in wisconsin, and it is not because people are for solar, clean energy necessarily. they just want the right thing to do. and it is cheaper. we are going to continue our efforts around solar and around mitigating climate change. i think i heard he doesn't believe in climate change. i do. it is making a difference. we are working with the ojibway on that issue with that dnr that is apparently so dysfunctional. that said, we are going to continue to make sure that the clean energy plan is in place. and i am so pleased with the farmers of this state. they are working together, making sure their practices --

>> your time is up. let's move on to amy dupont. >> wisconsin has a lot of problems. thousands of wisconsin -- milwaukee homes still get their water through led laterals -- lead laterals and thousands of families have been drinking bottled water for years because the water coming from their faucets is contaminated state dollars currently set aside to address these issues won't be enough to help everyone who needs help. how would you prioritize spending of the limited dollars sconce and had to provide safe water for the most wisconsinites? gov. evers: we have been working on this problem for the four years i have been in office. it is an immense problem and we are making progress across the state. we recently just passed bills in the federal government is

bringing in funding exactly for that. i have to talk about the issue of pfas. i heard my opponent slammed the dnr. the reason we can't get going on that is because of one member on the dnr board who was appointed by my predecessor. and he won't leave. and the senate won't approve my well-qualified candidate. that is crazy. it is going to take us another three years to set standards because one person has decided not to leave the dnr board. that is dysfunction. tim: great question, and i want to say that i am a business leader who understands this problem. i talked about 8000 employees we have at michels corporation, we are an infrastructure contractor. i understand replacing pipe. we put in over 4000 megawatts of

renewable energy. we stand by what we do. but this pfas issue means bad actors did the wrong thing, businesses that will be held accountable. i am not going to let them off the hook. when they tried to leave the state or declare bankruptcy, i'm going to make sure there are remedies because clean drinking water is one of the primary roles of government. but if everyone has gone bankrupt and is gone, the state will step in to make sure the people of wisconsin have clean drinking water. >> complex issues like this are worth reading more about and our data team is providing additional information on the wba website. our next question is frederica. >> on education, tim michels says he is in favor of universal school choice which would open

private attendance to any tax pack -- -- to any student at taxpayer expense. tony evers once $2 billion in taxpayer funding. why should wisconsin fund parallel school systems, one private, one public? tim: the quick answer is because every parent is a taxpayer so they should all, equally, have the benefit of those tax dollars to benefit that tax dollars to educate the kids. the education system is broken in wisconsin. test scores continued to go down. the forward test, getting worse. the national test, the not -- the numbers continue to go down. tony evers has been in education his whole life, you would think education would be going well under his leadership. but something has to change. because we have nine schools in

wisconsin where the reading comprehension score is zero. 60% of kids in our schools cannot read at the right level. i am going to do universal school choice. it can't get any worse. it will get better because we are going to empower parents and we are going to stop this ert and get back to the abcs. gov. evers: crt is not taught in our schools. abcs are. most parents teach them at home. we have 99 referendum issues this next election from 60 some school districts in the state. they are saying we don't have enough money. if you think about public money, it is different here. in the state of connecticut, it costs $47,000 a year tuition. in wisconsin, milwaukee public

schools has $16,000. there is a big difference. we do need more resources. we need to make sure we have more special education money, mental health money, we need to make sure our literacy program is making top readers in the state. all these things can be done. yes, i am going to increase the budget. >> we have a follow-up from frederica. >> tim michels, you often say we need to stop the crt and get back to the abcs. the department of public corruption says critical race theory is not being taught in wisconsin. what is your position of how the history of race should be taught in our schools, governor evers, one minute? gov. evers: one thing that concerns me the most as a

radical position is when you say, should we fund our schools more? that is the definition of insanity by my opponent. his plan right now is to take 40% of the funding away from our public schools. that is called defunding our public schools. both of those are radical positions. they are not what the people of wisconsin want. i have run for office several times in wisconsin, and republican moms and dads and democratic moms and dads want great schools and that is what we are going to get. we need to make sure we have the resources to do this. as far as crt, it is not taught in our schools. i said that before. maybe there have been discussions at the university level. >> let me follow-up specifically.

how should the history of race in our country be taught in our schools? gov. evers: it absolutely can be. it has nothing to do with crt. should we talk about the fact that japanese americans were interned in world war ii? of course. we want to talk about that. we shouldn't be afraid about that. we are a strong state in a strong country. if we can't talk about eggs like that, we are in bad shape. parents have a role in making those decisions, and teachers. we have always been able to figure this out. tim: we could talk all night about education. i am going to spend more money on education than any governor in the history of this state because education is so important for educating and training our future leaders of this state, future leaders of tv stations and restaurants and construction companies and nonprofits.

right now, they are being failed. how are we going to teach race? get parents involved. right now, parents are shown up -- parents show up at a school board meeting and they are given the stiff arm. parents are screening right now. and i disagree that everything is being taught properly right now. parents have shown me the stuff being taught to their kids at school and they are outraged. i am going to empower parents by having tuition dollars go with their sons and daughters go to the school of their choice, the tuition dollars that they pay taxes on. we are going to make education better for everyone in wisconsin. >> the question was how should the history of race taught in school? tim: i answered it. we are going to let parents decide, not woke educators.

we are going to have parents teach that this is bad and this is good. we are going to do this right so we don't love the judgment of our future leaders -- so we don't cloud the judgment of future leaders. >> what is your detailed plan for crime revenge, mr. michels? you have one minute. tim: crime went down in america from 30 years ago until two years ago. in the last two years, there has been a tremendous spike. it is a byproduct of the defund the police movement. we got to this crazy spot in america where les cops is better or police are bad. i have the endorsement of multiple police associations. they know that the governor evers association has provided weak leadership. i'm going to stand with law enforcement because law-abiding citizens are fearful of the surging crime in wisconsin over

the last two years. i am going to talk to the bad guys on election night in my victory speech and in my inaugural speech. there is a new sheriff in town and they are going to understand that if they are not willing to do the time, they shouldn't do the crime. gov. evers: absolutely people should have the opportunity to be safe in their neighborhoods and homes. absolutely we have to have that. but to accomplish that, it isn't about talking tough. it is about providing the resources so those officers can the job, and the training needs to happen. and we have put over $100 million into the milwaukee area other places in wisconsin for violence prevention, for local

officers, police officers and emts. we have to make that happen in a consistent way and the only way we are going to do it is revenue-sharing. shared revenue is such an important thing. if we want our municipalities to do the hard work, they deserve to have the money. i am going to add 12% to the next budget for them. >> wisconsin abolished pearl 20 is ago which means people convicted only before the year 2000 are eligible. that is 1700 people. it is up to the wisconsin parole commission to grant discretionary parole. the governor appoints the chairperson. what factors do you want that chairperson consider when deciding whether eligible individuals should be released? you have one minute. gov. evers: the governor does

not control the parole board. they make those decisions. it is against the law for the governor to issue the roles -- issue paroles. i just fired the head of the commission for this very reason -- he did not take victim rights into account in one case, so i asked him to reverse that, he did. i asked him to resign, he did. do we need to strengthen that? absolutely. but the end of the day, it is going to be a record again. this is about shared issues. we have all sorts of issues in the criminal justice system that need to be addressed. it is mostly done at the state level. i have tried to get shared revenue increased. we are going to make it happen this time. shared revenue is what folks at the local level are asking for.

>> mr. michels? tim: i want to tie that into the last two questions. we talked about crime and you heard more money, more resources, and it doesn't matter about leadership. i am going to talk tough and i am going to lead law enforcement. that is how you get crime down. on the issue of parole, same thing. right now, governor evers made a pledge for years ago to cut in half the prison population. they released over 1000 convicted felons. they have about 10,000 more to go if you do the simple math. of those, about 300 are convicted murderers or attempted murderers. 44 our child rapists. i will pick a chief parole commissioners who is going -- commissioner who is going to make sure we have the rule of

law in wisconsin and lets the bad guys know they are not going to get out. >> mr. michels, if elected, what will your administration do to ensure the safety of wisconsinites during civil unrest, while assuring their first amendment rights to assemble? tim: thank you. great question. we saw the civil unrest, if you will, i think it was mamba mentality that hit kenosha two years ago. hundreds of businesses were burned. i met with county leaders and they told me, we were doing everything we could. we were doing our part. the feds were doing their part. the county was doing their part. there was no leadership. it took 90 minutes to get from madison to kenosha. i would have been there in 90 minutes or less, making sure

that our fourth-largest city in wisconsin didn't burn to the ground, that civil unrest didn't happen. i believe the governor called it civil disruption the other day. there is a big difference between peaceful protest and what we saw happen on tv in kenosha. it won't happen under a governor michels administration. gov. evers: in kenosha, i did every single thing that was asked of me. from the get go, the first shot was fired. we had state cruisers -- stage crew prayers that we had state troopers coming in. we had local municipalities around kenosha to get them on board. and at 2:00 in the morning -- people need to know this -- the

national guard is only allowed to move if requested. kenosha asked us at 2:00 in the morning. that same day, we had the national guard there and we doubled it every day. if you want to know the truth about the situation instead of listening to my opponent, ask the kenosha county sheriff, who is a republican. he said we did everything we needed to do. >> frederica? >> this question is on the worker shortage. sconce and has a teacher shortage na newburyport shows that by 2030, the state will see a decline of 130,000 workers, with young people in wisconsin leaving and not being replaced by people moving here. what is your prescription or attracting and retaining an adult -- retaining young adults to our workforce? gov. evers: worker shortage is

an issue. most people are my age and when you get down into our kindergarten area, it is a lot less people you have to and i had. one thing we need to do is make sure we have some several discussions across wisconsin. politics are difficult here and across our country. i am committed to that. but that said, we spent a fairmont of money, $100 million during the pandemic, allowing local people to think through what they should be doing locally in order to make sure they don't have a worker shortage. they came up with a great idea about upskilling people for advanced manufacturing. other people are going to be putting affordable housing up, making childcare more affordable. those are things we need to do.

tim: everywhere i go across wisconsin, from kenosha to superior, lacrosse to sheboygan, i hear about the help wanted science. employers are telling me about it, manufacturers are telling about it. number one, we are going to get people off their couches and back to work. we created a class of lazy people during covid and it is time to get them engaged in our economy and stop sending them unemployment checks in covid subsidy checks. that is how they got lazy. second, with this tax reform i talked about, we are going to make wisconsin a more attractive place to live. students that are getting out of college are going to want to stadia. military members are going to want to come back or relocate to wisconsin because it is a great state raise a family.

and we have a great work ethic. >> let's go now to victor. >> there are approximately 75,000 undocumented immigrants in wisconsin, as well as 7000 recipients of the deferred action for childhood allowance program, referred to as daca. would you support drivers licenses are in-state tuition for daca residents? tim: we need to make sure our border is secure. no nation can be sovereign if we have a leaking border. 3 million illegal immigrants have come into this country in the 20 months of the biden administration. i am all for more immigrants in wisconsin, we need more. i just talked about help-wanted signs everywhere. but we need to get them here illegally. this is a federal issue. we should expand the federal

immigration plan so that the people who want to come on -- what come to america can pursue their american dream and then america has the opportunity to make sure bad guys aren't coming across the border seeking an opportunity for more crime, like we are seeing with gangs. yeah, i want to make sure we have more workers, but we cannot reward bad they. and no driver license for illegals. gov. evers: we can't battle the issue of lazy wisconsinites when we have so few people that are unemployed. let's go to the next question. it is critical and shows the differences between the two people here. we have 70,000 people, undocumented in the state of wisconsin. most of them are working hard, whether in our factories, our

agriculture area. if we don't do something, if those people were to leave the agriculture industry, would no longer be the dairy state, folks. we depend on that labor. we need to be able to say to them, you should be able to have a drivers license. it will be safer because they will have to take a test. in addition, daca kids should get in-state tuition. that is the least we can do. >> this is a 32nd question, victor. >> -- 30-second question, victor. >> in november, do you commit to respect the outcome of this gubernatorial election and acknowledge it as fair and final? gov. evers: yes.

absolutely. that is my job as governor. i certify the election last time. information came in from all those hard-working people at the local districts across the state. frankly, we owe them our thanks. yes, i did it last night. no matter who wins, my opponent or me, i will certify that election. absolutely. tim: i will certify the next election. radical conspiracy theories about republicans that won't certify an election -- i spent 12 years of active duty. i swore to uphold and defend the constitution. i am going to certify the next election but i want to make sure after i am governor that we are not having these conversations for years from now -- four years from now. i am going to make sure no one in wisconsin ever has another question about election integrity. >> we have time for one final

question and you will get 90 seconds. our last question is our cleanup question. dan? >> during this debate, you have heard things said about you that you think are plain wrong. we want to give you a chance to set the record straight. what has been said about you that you want to knock down, mr. michels? tim: the other side spent tens of millions of dollars trying to characterize me as radical and irresponsible. that is anything but the truth. one of them is that we have a bad culture at michels corporation. there has been five sexual allegations over the 62-year history of our company and zero have been found to be true. we have a tremendous culture of respect, for women, minorities,

everybody. ask anyone that works at michels . we have 8000 employees with spouses and nieces and nephews. they will tell you what a tremendous culture we have. we are trying to throw one of wisconsin's greatest businesses under the bus for political gain. that is one of the big differences in this election. are we going to elect people that have done real things in life? people that have made payroll, made tough decisions, have actually made jobs -- actually created jobs, not just talked about it. i have created thousands of union jobs and know how to get things done. the governor evers administration wants to blame others and talk about more money, it is the legislature's fault, the parole commissioner's fault. i am a leader that will take responsibility and a man of integrity and we will have a better wisconsin for generations. >> governor?

gov. evers: they keep saying that i sleep too late. i get up early just like any other human that is working hard for the people of wisconsin. going to bed late, getting up early, they say i spend too much time sleeping. it is a bunch of crap. our economy in wisconsin is strong. we are strong because of wisconsinites. we have been able to fix the roads. we have been able to provide resources for our public tools. we have cut taxes -- public schools. we have cut taxes by 15% and brought small businesses to every corner of wisconsin, over 6000 right now, heading to 7000. we are going to continue doing the right thing going forward and we have much to continue to be strong. this november, we are going to

be making a huge choice in wisconsin. it is about continuing to do the right thing and being a strong wisconsin or going backwards because we have chosen a governor who, on issue after issue, on abortion, voting rights, education, radical solutions that are going to hurt our state. folks, thanks to the broadcasters for doing this great work tonight. thank you, i hope i have your vote this november. moderator: thank you, governor. thank you, mr. michels. i would like to thank amy dupont, frederica, dan hagan, dr. tim harris, victor from milwaukee and telemundo wisconsin statewide and michelle mccormick from green bay.

we covered the state. we think our data team members working behind the scenes. and we want to tell you these research materials can be found at the wba website and social media accounts. thanks to jonathan from appleton, james langa madison and giuliana from madison. >> >> thank you for joining us for tonight debate. this debate has been sponsored by our wba foundation to throw ground from the wisconsin association of independent colleges and universities and the wisconsin county association. our sincere thanks to the radio and tv stations who work together to produce this broadcast. to our candidates, our moderator, our panelists, our data team, as always wba member stations will be on duty to bring you the results.

election day is tuesday, november 8. exercise your right as an american and vote.