mobile video app, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. >> there are a lot of places to get political information. but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. >> next, iowa governor kim reynolds and her democratic challenger in the 2022 governors race participating in a debate hosted by iowa pbs, iowa press. two polls showed governor reynolds leading the race with a 17 point advantage and the nonpartisan political report rated the race solid republican.

for the first time, democrats and republicans have two women the top of the tent good this november. --at the top of the ticket this november. we will question governor kim reynolds and deidre dejear. >> small businesses are the backbone of iowa as communities.

banks across iowa are are committed to showing small businesses away to a stronger tomorrow. >> for decades, iowa press has brought you political leaders from across iowa and beyond. this is a special iowa press debate featuring candidates for governor. here is moderator kate henderson. >> for the next hour, we will explore the views of two women who are running to be governor of iowa. the republican incumbent is kim reynolds. she was elected to a full four year term in 2018. deidre dejear is the democrat in

the race. she is a small business owner in des moines. welcome to you both. >> thank you. >> a pleasure to be here. >> joining me to ask the questions as aaron murphy. >> you are in one of two top state races. kim reynolds, we will start with you. what message are republicans sending to voters? >> i want to thank pbs for hosting us tonight. i want to take this opportunity to thank iowans to serve as the governor of this great state. we have faced a lot of challenges. we started with a historic

flooding, a worldwide pandemic. through all of it, i have been inspired by the resilience of iowans. when we headed into covid, we had one of the most resilient budgets in the country. we were able to come out of it. that had to do with the fact that we trusted iowans to do the right thing and they did. we rejected lockdowns. we kept our communities safe by supporting our men and women who serve in law enforcement.

our fiscal help this strong. we have been named one of the top 10 states to live in in the country. we are pro-parent, profamily, pro-tax player and pro-freedom. we are going to build on what we have done for the last four years. >> i would like to thank pbs for raising awareness around this race and giving us an opportunity to share our vision. i am running for governor because i believe in the state, but i also believe in our people. i started a small business and it was during the recession.

people were getting laid off from their jobs and do not have a choice but to become entrepreneurs. i was a young college student. i began to create small business programs that were helping iowans and still are helping iowans achieve economic stability. coming into the pandemic, we knew small business owners were going to need resources and help. i buckled up and got to work. we learned the number of challenges that iowans were experiencing. i thought i want to be a part of change and doing something about this. we started an exploratory last summer.

there was a lot of good that exists in our communities. i asked them where do you see room for improvement? iowans want to see a stronger education system. we are 18 or 19 on the list and we know that is now -- not where we belong. they want to see affordable health care. rural iowans are driving long distances to seek care. people want to see their economies grow. our message is that we see iowans and we insist on putting you first. we want to maximize your taxpayer dollars to work for you. i believe that iowa is worth it.

>> you mentioned tax cuts. you also mentioned you are not done cutting taxes. what is next? is the goal to an -- to eliminate personal income? >> i am proud of the fact that i was able to sign my third tax cut into law since taking office. our individual income tax rate was early 9%. i am so excited that we will no longer tax retirement income beginning next year. our retirees are a valuable asset and we want to keep them in the state. we do not want them to go to florida or texas. we are excited about keeping

more of our retirees in the state. we will continue to look at it. we will do it in a responsible manner so that we can sustain the tax cuts. but if we are over collected and we will give the money back to hard-working iowans. we will look for opportunities to do that. we are was looking for ways to help working families keep more of their hard earned. >> do you prefer one or the other? personal versus corporate? >> personal. that is where we started. the first one we pass, everybody thought the world would end. that did not happen. we went from up budget deficit to a budget surplus. i am proud to say that two of the three tax cuts, we were able

to get bipartisan support. especially with inflation at a 40 year high, people are struggling to put groceries on the table. to hopefully offset some of that where we see an administration that is increase in taxes with inflation, we will help families keep a little of that money. >> you criticize that last round of tax cuts. what would you keep or get rid of? >> i created a program in 2012 and i can say that since the governor has been in leadership the tax cuts have had minimal impact on low and moderate income individuals.

while those tax cuts do not add value, what does add value are the systems around them, like strong education, access to health care and mental health care services, access to housing. access to childcare. we lost 40% of our childcare providers over the last couple of years. these are the things that iowans are needing. what they need are systems that will work for them so that they can have economic sustainability. the revenue estimating committee has already shown us we will see a drop in revenue. i believe those tax cuts are

shortsighted, especially in the middle of a pandemic. i believe these are the moments to invest our resources and maximize the potential of the iowa dollar. this tax cut was sold as a retention and recruitment tax cut. the vast majority of iowans will get about 50 don --50 five dollars per month. it does not do anything to resolve the issues with our education system today. this is a moment where we should be investing. >> i would like to respond to that. $50, 20 five dollars, that matters to them.

what it cost to fill up your car, utility bills, everything is increasing. anytime we can help iowans keep their money, it does matter. we are the number one state in the country for fiscal responsibility. the tax policies we put in place , we are the fourth lowest. every year, the taxes go down. we will continue to look for ways where we can expedite those if we have the resources. the bottom line is, they think they know what to do with your money better than you do. they want to take your money and get government programs instead of giving it back to iowans.

we were able to not only cut taxes but make record investments in k-12 education, in broadband, childcare, housing. we still had a surplus. we are watching what is happening at the federal level, but we are in a good place to take on some of the challenges we are seen from this administration. >> you mentioned the surplus. we found out last month the state surplus is one point $9 billion. -- $1.9 billion. deidre dejear, how would you use it? >> while we can boast about our surplus, we have to think about at what cost?

we see the degradation to our education system. we are asking our systems do more with a lot less. we are seeing that in health care services. the iowa taxpayer dollar is not going to work, it is just being hoarded. we have to maximize the potential of the iowa taxpayer dollar. those taxpayer dollars should be allocated on an annual basis so that we are pushing the systems that will get people back to work and ensure that families have economic sustainability. when i am talking to business owners, they are having challenges keeping their employees because of the lack of child care. they are having challenges getting people to stay at work because of the lack of housing. i want to invest the taxpayer dollar and not just hoard the

resources. >> but we have invested dollars into childcare and housing. i am proud of what we have been able to do with public-private partnerships. we expanded childcare across the state. we are working on it every day. we are also working with businesses to incentivize them to bring childcare on-site at the business or to work with existing childcare providers and be accountable for 10-20 slots. it helps our daycare provider sustain and be able to provide funding that they can count on month after month. we made expensive investments in housing over the last couple of years.

all of those programs are being implemented and have been implemented. >> i am looking at the need. we need to fill 80 two thousand jobs in the state today. -- 82,000 jobs in the state today. i want to go the distance for iowans. >> the democrats decided not to have the kids back in the classroom. when we were in the middle of the pandemic and we fought to get the kids back in the classroom so that they can have every opportunity, every democratic legislator voted against getting those kids back in the classroom. voted against parents deciding if their child should wear our mask. they wanted to shut down the

economy. i talked to business after business. the first thing they say to me is thank you so much for keeping our businesses open. i look at what happened in blue states, they shut the businesses down and kept the kids out of school for two years. the impact that has had come up parents come up to me crying saying thank you for getting my kids back in school. >> still talking about how to handle the budget surplus. the states mental health care system has been redesigned, but advocates say there still needs to be better funding. kim reynolds, we will start with you. should surplus use to help

bolster the mental health care system? >> i am really proud of what we have done to address mental health. there is always more we can do. what i've done over the last four years demonstrates how we can continue to make improvements and continue to enhance the system. when we started out mental health was the liver county by county. then we went to a regional system. but there were still issues with the system. it depended on where you lived. we passed a comprehensive adult mental health reform. included in that were access centers. mobile crisis centers that are now in 85 counties. we have community-based

stabilization centers. so a lot of enhancements were made to the adult mental health system. the next thing we did was we set up a children's mental health system. for two decades legislators had talked about it and it had never been done. through an executive order, set up a task force. the children's mental health statute passed unanimously. that built a continuum of care for a child all the way to an adult. the final is the funding component. we funded through county property tax levy.

this is something that they talked about changing for years. i brought both parties together through a compromise bill. we were able to take the funding for mental services off of property taxes and move it to a state allocation. that provided predictability in funding into the mental health system. also in addition to that same piece of legislation we passed there is a growth factor so as revenue increases it automatically increases the funding that goes into the mental health system. when we were levying through the property taxes it was capped at $116 million. most the time they did not levy to the cap. we got $99 million going into mental health. with a projected funding for fiscal year 2023 it will be about $128 million that will go into the mental health system. we are continuing to look at that.

it takes the politics out of it. we will continue to look at it. you talk to the providers and we will continue to evaluate, continue to look for where there is gaps. another component of this is we are doing the realignment with public health and health and human services into one agency. that will streamline and identify where some of those gaps are. ms. dejear: i think it is one thing to talk about what we have done, but another to talk about the effectiveness about what we have done. mental health care is a challenge that we hear many iowans talk about. i go into schools and i ask our students the same question that i ask adults, what is your number one issue? i talked to fourth and fifth graders who are asking for mental health care services. i go to our colleges. people are telling me they have to wait six months to get care.

this is very important to me because my mother died when i was eight years old, just three days after my little sister was born. it turned my life upside down. i am able to sit here today because my father gave me access to mental health care and social workers in my school. when i think about the pressing need of iowans across the state, i'm not just looking at the work that has been done, i'm looking at the efficacy of the work that has been done. i chatted with the father early in this campaign into butte. a 17-year-old kid called him in the middle of the day and said i am thinking about harming myself, not a call any parent wants to get. this father takes his kid to the emergency room. this is an insured father. the doc says unfortunately we can't get you to see a psychiatrist for another six months. that is unreasonable. the reason being is we have less than 30 siloed -- 30 child

psychiatrist in the state and half a million kids. the next best thing the doctor offered the child is an open bed in sioux city, still unreasonable. the next best thing the doctor offered that kid was to see a psychologist in two months, still unreasonable. the reason being we have less than 750 beds in this state. we are 45th in the nation in mental health care worker availability. the need is there. we have to make sure this industry is set to perform, that our reimbursement rates are creating the business model for these folks to do this work in the private industry, but we are also creating pathways for young people to get in this field by making sure that k-12 is preparing them for these jobs, but also ensuring we are investing in post secondary education as well. i am looking at the damage, the harm, and what iowans are asking for. i am of the firm belief that we can turn the system around, that

we can move it forward, but we have to center it around people first. this is a need that people have. it is a need that i hear more people talk about than any other thing outside of education. gov. reynolds: i want to talk about one things with children's mental health. i would like to at least respond to that. i demonstrated what we have done over the last four years. we did a partnership with the university of iowa where we are providing evidence-based resources for educators in that school districts that they can identify early warning signs. we made our districts a site of service. that means they can contract with professional, have them on site, and be reimbursed through insurance. because we are implementing broadband across the state, telehealth is another component of that, as well as making sure we have parity for funding for

mental health. reporter: a couple minutes ago we were talking about childcare. deirdre, you talked about how you want universal preschool, taxpayer supported preschool for three and four-year-olds. ms. dejear: i want an extended childcare program in this state. some of that could come from federal resources, but my goal is to make sure whether we are maximizing federal resources and/po taxpayerr -- and/or taxpayer dollars, we are injuring every three and four-year-old in the state has at least access to 30 hours of education. reporter: preschool providers will say because of staff-children ratio, that is where you make your money. with infants it is tougher to make the numbers work. if it does work out that way, would you plan to subsidized childcare for families in other ways? -- subsidize childcare for families and otherwise? ms. dejear: absolutely. looking at iowa taxpayer dollars

is how we are going to figure this out. not only do children need access to these services, as we are hearing kindergarten teachers telling us, children are coming in less prepared. that is impacting third grade reading scores across the state. this is an opportunity to get parents back to work and get them engaged in the workforce. however we need to make it happen, and there are ways to do it, maximizing the iowa taxpayer dollar, but it has to be prioritized. it will not happen overnight. that is what i want to work towards. gov. reynolds: every time they talk about a new government program, that means more money coming from taxpayers. ms. dejear: it does not mean more money coming from taxpayers, it means utilizing the taxpayer dollars that are already there. gov. reynolds: it's not a one-time fund. ms. dejear: absolutely. reporter: let me get my question out first. it's on this topic. if i remember the things you mentioned before when you're

talking about childcare, i think those are primarily on the provider's side, the business side. is there anything you would look at next session, something like a child tax credit, to help families with the cost of it? gov. reynolds: we increased the childcare tax credit that is in place. we increased that to 90,000. that helped a lot of parents that were not being helped before. in addition we addressed the racial issue we talked about. we passed legislation to do that this year. we have programs in place with high schools to help incorporate kids to help them see if they have a passion or an interest in early learning. one of the pilot programs on excited about is happening in council bluffs. it is a blended model of childcare and preschool. when the learning center is done, they will have 192 available flats for childcare from birth to the age of five.

in addition they will have 14 rooms for full day preschool. we are addressing both issues at once. we are excited to see how this can play out. that is one pilot program, but we also made available 16 additional grants to school districts across the state to take what council bluffs is doing and figure out a way to implement that. 10,500 new slots available just this year and continuing to build that out, $500 million to address the childcare shortage, we are moving in the right direction. a lot of opportunity out there. ms. dejear: i would like to add, i believe pilots makes sense. needless to say we had childcare deserts in the state prior to the pandemic. it was exacerbated by the pandemic. what is important is that we look at this industry with a keen eye. the average childcare worker

makes $6,000 a year. one of the challenges in keeping childcare facilities open is the lack of access to the workforce. if we really want to see strength and integrity in this system, we have to honor it with investment, making sure that if private industry is going to be part of bolstering childcare in this state, we have to make that business model work. we have to make sure that the individuals who are providing the service are paid with the integrity that they deserve. they are not glorified babysitters. they are worth more than average $26,000 on an annual basis. it is hard for any iowan to do much with that in any county in the state. i want to bolster this industry. this is the beginning for so many of our children. our state has been able to get this right under both republican and democratic leadership. we have seen integrity in this space. we have seen strength in this space. i know where we are going with

regards to money mental steps backwards. we have been able to do it before. i am very confident that we can overcome this challenge. reporter: let's move on to school choice. kim reynolds, i heard you give a speech in september. you said you want every parent to have school choice. does that mean an arizona style law where parents in that state are now choosing to use state dollars to either send their kid to a public, private school, or home school? gov. reynolds: first it is critical that we have a strong public school system. it is the foundation of our state. we want to make sure we are adequately funding our public school system. what is equally important is that a parent has a choice in what they believe is the best environment for their child to thrive. that choice should not be for only the families that have the resources to make that choice. we want to make sure every child

has every opportunity to succeed and be the best they can be. it is why i was so adamant about getting our kids back in the classroom during covid. we passed a law to say parents had the choice of getting their kids back 100% in school or 100% online. i had school districts that still sued me to keep the kids out of the classroom. it was evidence that the online learning wasn't working. we were losing kids. mental health, keeping kids out of the school certainly did not help that. what was obvious was parents who had the resources were able to find options. they were able to get that child in a school, whether it was private because they had the resources to do that, or they were able to move to a different area, get their child into a

school system where they could learn.. there were a lot of kids that did not have that option, a lot of families. we had over 2000 -- over 200,000 kids drop out in fiscal year 2021. 92% of those kids were on free and reduced lunch. those kids did not have the option. this is not a zero-sum game. there is an opportunity to help all kids and to make our schools stronger. i fundamentally believe that that choice should not only go to kids and families that have the resources, education is the great equalizer. everyone should have that choice. it is not a zero-sum game. there was a superintendent in eastern iowa who said i don't agree with the legislation, but it's passed. i'm going to do everything that i can to make sure that we have the best school available, that

parents want to send their kids here. that is the kind of mindset that i think we can get to. we have great schools across the state. most parents want to keep their kids in that environment. if they are not getting what they need, they should have the option to put that child in a different environment. ms. dejear: again, this is an area in education that our state has had a history of excelling in, under both republican and democratic leadership. when it comes to school choice, it should not be a matter of apparent choosing -- a parent choosing failing school. every school needs to be set up for success in every district. we are asking our districts to do a lot more with a lot less, with a lack of robust funding that can actually help them do what they need tod o in -- to do in the school system. the legislature asked to a $300

million pick me up to level the budget. they did not get that. more than 90% of our students in this state are enrolled in public schools. when the governor had an opportunity to truly impact our schools in a positive way and get them set up for the next school year, rather than seeing robust legislation to invest in schools, the best that we saw was the idea that $55 million of taxpayer money goes to assist 2% of our students in this state. it is very apparent that more than 100% of our students means the unyielding divided attention of our governor to compete. this year we have schools opening where they did not have science teachers. we had schools opening that did not have spanish teachers. we have a system in this state where students were not only able to compete with their peers, they were able to leave this state and compete against

the world. i want to make sure our system gets back to that basic essential function. we owe it to our students. we should give them nothing less. gov. reynolds: we increased funding year-over-year. i am proud of what we have been able to do for our k-12 education system. since republicans took control of the legislature and the governor's office, over $1 billion of new money has gone into k-12 education. when you account for local, state, and federal dollars going into k-12 education it is $8 billion a year, about $16,500 per student. we are putting additional funding into education. you have got to be careful about the trap of measuring the quality of education by the sheer number of dollars that you put into it. if we are not preparing our children to be successful for the future, then we are failing.

i will give florida as an example. they allocate $2000 per pupil less than iowa. they were at the middle of the pack in reading and math. today they are sixth in reading, sixth best in the nation, and fourth in math, yet they allocate fewer dollars. i am so proud of what we have done with work-based learning. we talk about teachers in that pipeline. we just launched the first in the country teachers to registered apprenticeship program. we have 1000 apprentices participating in that. 500 of them are students going into education. it will help them complete it a year quicker. they can earn while they are learning. they are in the classroom with some of our best teachers. 500 of the 1000 will have the opportunity to continue their education if they choose.

that is 100 new individuals that are apprentices that are interested into going into teaching that we want to launch this year. the federal government looked into the program because they were so impressed with it. one of the first states to do that in the country. that is impacting our kids, connecting work and school. it is keeping them in the community because they are finding out there are great jobs in the community. 73% of our high schools have a registered apprenticeship or work-based learning program. ms. dejear: really quickly i will say when it comes down to what an individual has done, -- done, in 2016 our state was 70% in reading proficiency. today we are at about half of that. when we look at third grade reading scores, we know that is not an indicator, especially the challenge that we see, that is not an indicator for the jobs we are filling.

that is an indicator for the number of prison cells we have to build. we see that as evidence before our eyes. this is not a moment for us to talk about record investment. this is a moment for us to talk about how we are going to take was possibility of this challenge and resolve it. everywhere i go throughout the state, talking with administrators, teachers, school board members, we are not short of vision in the state. our district understands how they can move our students forward and prepare them for that limitless future. they need leadership that is willing to turn the lights on. gov. reynolds: we tried to make reading by third grade mandatory. kids are transitioning then. we tried to get that past. it was rejected by the union. there is a lot of positive things happening. tlc is a graded symbol of that. -- is a great example of that. reporter: the clock is starting

up again. staying in education, kim reynolds, you recently signed onto a lawsuit that challenged president biden's plan to relieve some student loan debt for college graduates. i wanted to ask you, we just talked about your school choice program. why is it ok to use taxpayer funding in your view to help students go to a private school but is not ok for the government to provide some relief to college students with loan debt? gov. reynolds: because they signed a contract to get that loan and they would pay that back. it does nothing to reduce the high cost of education. it does nothing but encourage bad borrowing practices. if you are that truck driver or machinist or a nurse, a person that decided not to seek a college education, why should you be responsible in paying someone else's off, especially

when they often make more than you do? it is not right. it is not fair. people are upset about it, democrats as well as republicans disagreed with the program that he's put in place. you don't hear him talking about it very much. i can tell you my family as an example. our three daughters went to school. they worked the entire time they were in school to keep the cost of that loan down. when kids were going on spring break, they were working, at a couple jobs actually. i paid my school debt off. it took me a long time to get mine done. i was 57 by the time i got my bachelors degree. if you are trying to decide if it is too late, never give up. it is never too late to go back if that is a dream you have. i share that story often. it doesn't help keep the cost of higher education down. it honestly encourages more borrowing. why wouldn't you borrow if you

think the government will pay it off? if you made a decision not to go to work, right into the workforce, why should you be responsible? ms. dejear: i know truck drivers with student loans. i know wait staff with student loans, nurses with student loans. the cap on this is about $20,000 at most. it will impact nearly 480,000 -- 405,000 iowans if they so choose to go through the process. she is stating that this is unfair. one of the other stipulations in this law is that people who do embark on this process, the federal government decided they cannot tax this loan forgiveness. our governor talks a great deal of putting dollars back into people's pockets. that 405,000 folks at a cap of $20,000 of loan forgiveness for most folks, that is not even a drop in the bucket.

in addition to that $20,000 of loan forgiveness, the fact that they can also reap the benefit of the state not taxing that revenue as well is good for peop le. this is an opportunity to get people's dollars back into their pocket so they can maximize the potential of those resources. she said this does not make college more affordable. that is correct. reporter: that is what i wanted to ask you about. what do we do about that? would you propose freezing tuition? ms. dejear: i believe when we talk about investment in education, it's not just k-12, it is post secondary. those jobs we have to fill today, not all of them require two and four year degrees, but we know we have a nursing shortage, challenges with education and mental health care. these are all roles that require a postsecondary degree. i want to make college more affordable in this state. it used to be that we funded our

regions three fourths of their budget. now we are funding one fourth of their budget. i was on one of our campuses earlier and was asking about the budget. they mentioned they had to find in this specific department $1 million. i said where are you going to take that from? they said work-study. we have to make sure the pathway to access higher education is accessible and affordable. that means we take that responsibility at the state level. it starts at the governor's office. gov. reynolds: the president pay people to stay home, increased inflation. we have seen soaring inflation. just the cost of living. i will tell you some of the ways we are helping address the high cost of higher education. we are the number one state in the country for duel enrollment -- dual enrollment. we have worked with kids so they can take college courses while in high school. we have a lot of kids graduating not only with a high school

degree, but an associates degree. that helps reduce the cost of college. the apprenticeship programs i talked about, that shaves a whole year off of the cost of an individual getting their license in teaching. some of those programs we put in place have helped reduce the higher cost of living. there are a lot of kids that don't want to go to school, that made the choice to go directly into work and not have any debt, and to have a great opportunity for a great career in the state. ms. dejear: which is why we have to fund k-12 education. many of our students in rural and suburban and urban iowa cannot go to college. we have to make that pathway available. reporter: let's talk about science class. carbon sequestration pipelines. we have three of these things proposed for our state. at the end of the day they need our property to tunnel these things underneath so they can take the carbon from the ethanol

plants out of state. when you get to the point that a property owner says no, i don't want this to happen, kim reynolds, should it be the iowa utilities board or the legislature that decides when a private business can require you to grant access? gov. reynolds: first, eminent domain should be only used as a last resort. legislators put a lot of time putting legislation in place. it says eminent domain should only be used as a last resort, but if it is used they want to make sure our land owners are being fairly reimbursed for utilizing eminent domain. there is a process in place. it starts with voluntary easements. then it goes to the utility board. agriculture is an important industry to the state.

it is the backbone of our economy. we need to make sure as governor that i am doing everything i can to add value and grow the opportunity for markets for what our farmers produce. we grow 10% of the nation's food supply. we need to make sure that not only i am maintaining markets, i'm looking for new markets and adding value to what i produce. reporter: so when it comes to eminent domain, is that what it may have to be? gov. reynolds: it is a balance. i have to take a look at that. that is why we passed the biofuels bill. 50% of our corn goes to ethanol plants today. if we lose the renewable food industry, that will have a tremendous impact on farmers. this has helped this generation sustain and add value to what they produce. we want to make sure we are taking into account the next generation of farmers so we have opportunities to add that value.

that is why it pushed the biofuels bill. we are the first state in the country to have an 815 standard. that will add value to our corn and soy producers. we should take a look at it. i would support the laws on the books. reporter: you have criticized the use of eminent domain as governor. what would you then do to protect homeowners who don't want this coming through? ms. dejear: there is a bill that came through the legislature this year for that very purpose. i would champion that. my great-grandmother was a sharecropper. my husband's family were cattle ranchers. as i traveled through this state, being a person who has a great deal of affection for small business owners, i see our farmers in that same light. they are providing goods to not only the state, but to this world. i want to make sure that our agricultural sustainability is well taken care of.

we have to make sure the farmer is well taken care of, that if we are asking them to change the business model of the business, that we are making it worth their while. there are ways we can fund environmental sustainability in this state. we pride ourselves in feeding the world. we should also be leading in environmental sustainability, whether the farmer has two acres or 5000 acres. reporter: so as governor, if i own a property and don't want the pipeline going through, we have negotiated, i say no, you will pass something that will allow me to say no? ms. dejear: yes sir. i believe the landowner should have power in this situation. they put their blood, sweat and tears into their land. reporter: kim reynolds, in 2018 i covered you signing a bill into law that created a six week abortion ban in iowa with some exceptions. that was the toughest lawyer in the country when you signed it. -- law in the country when you

signed it. do you want iowa's gov. reynolds: i am pro-life. you know that. we should do everything we can to protect the life of the unborn. in 20, i signed a heartbeat bill with exceptions. it was enjoined in the ruling with roe v. wade. we asked the court revisit that. we are putting our efforts into making that bill become law. we are going to wait until the courts ruled. in addition, not only did we pass the heartbeat bill, but we worked hard to enhance maternal health issues. we have two violent programs working with grenell hospital and in carol. it is focused on maternal health care. next year, we want to expand that. we expended the safe haven law from 13 days -- from 30 days to

90. we have more options for maternal health. michael is to provide birth control over the counter. we want to make sure we have adoption, we are enhancing and making sure families know those are an option. i signed the heartbeat bill, we continue to work with legislation and support systems we can put in-place to help maternal health. >> does the fight go to a total ban? mr. pence: mike -- gov. reynolds: my goal is to make the law on the books law. when it goes to the courts, i am not going to wait in, but my goal is to make sure we have the law on the books as the law. >> do you want a 20-week line to be the status quote, or do you have another proposal? deidre: this is a subject that,

prior to this election cycle, it was challenging for folks to have because you have activists on both sides with strong opinions. i am finding now that more people are willing to have a discussion about choice. over the summer when scotus cited to relinquish their responsibility to protect a woman's right to choose, and the states, it became clear governors were on the front lines in protecting this right. as the next governor, i am not going to criminalize women. i am not going to criminalize nurses. i am not going to criminalize doctors for providing that care. pregnancy has infinite variables and we know much more now than we knew 20, 30 years from today. my mother died three days after my sister was born. the science we have now, if used then, could have kept my mother

and little sister alive. it is undemocratic and are responsible for us to dictate in black-and-white this situation that has infinite variables. i want to codify roe in our state, because that had reasonable restrictions with exceptions that most of america agreed upon. i realize that now, the fight is in the state's hands that we have to defend it here in the state. >> do you believe a woman can abort a baby until it is born, do you believe in late-term abortion? deidre: my personal beliefs havein a woman's doctors appointment. when she goes to that doctor to make a decision that is in her best interests, that is her decision. my personal beliefs should not be in that room. no other politician's decision

should be in that room. and i am coming as a woman of faith. they say in the bible that the prudent act with knowledge. what we know now about access to abortions, access to reproductive care, is that we have to do a stronger job of applying what you know to the law, or getting the law out of it. when i was a senior in high school, i was volunteering at one of the no child left behind schools, tutoring a third grader. as i was tutoring her, she was a growing third-grader, but there came a day when she came to school and could not button her pants. i felt her belly and it was tight and i said to mom, i think she is pregnant. my mama took her to the nurse and that little third-grader was three months pregnant.

and trying to dictate pregnancy in black-and-white the way our governor chooses, that girl has minimal options if any at all. we cannot put iowans in those situations. my faith teaches me to trust people. gov. reynolds: they believe you can abort a baby at the moment it is born. deidre: that is not what i just said. gov. reynolds: that is what you are saying. that is not where americans are at. that is not where islands are at. our daughter was premature. several states have made that law, colorado, new mexico, oregon, vermont, new jersey now have on the books you can abort a baby until the baby is born, that even if you had an abortion and it is botched and the baby is born alive, you can kill that baby after it is born. walked through the halls of a

nicu at look at those tiny babies fighting for their lives, a parent writing for that baby to survive with the innovation and technology we have today. the thought of killing an eight-month-old baby like my daughter, a month premature, killing that baby in the womb is horrifying. i do not believe that is where most americans are at. that is where they want to go. they don't want to answer that question. that is an extreme position. deidre: we can see the governors very passionate personally about this issue. and our crusade -- and there crusade against choice has not only limited access to abortion care in this state, but it limited access to routine reproductive health care. mamas in our state do not have access to an ob/gyn. a mother in northeastern iowa was five months pregnant and had yet to see an ob/gyn.

i work with organizations as part of the work i do, to ensure women have access to maternal health care in light of the lack of access this governor is providing across this date. >> ob/gyn doctors are leaving the state because of tort reform and laws we have on the books. that is a big reason they are leaving. >> we have a minute left. if you are elected to a four-year term, will you serve the term? and what sort of discussions have you had? gov. reynolds: i am concentrating on winning this election. i've been honored to serve as governor of this great state. i am proud of my record. i am proud of the contrast we see out of the biden administration. and the fact democrats in iowa when tripping that tax and spend policy, woke ideology and indoctrination of our children into iowa, we want to keep reducing taxes, supporting

parents, keep our communities safe and grow this economy and make sure we have growth and prosperity in every corner of the state. i am focusing on getting reelected and continuing the great momentum over the last four years. i would put my record against what we are seeing out of the biden administration and am excited about the opportunity to serve. >> what discussions have you had with your running mate if, like kim reynolds, you would be elected governor? deidre: it would be time to get to work. iowans are hard-working people. and we see time and again how iowans all over the state are making do with what they have. iowans are not short of vision. they just need leadership who is willing to turn the lights on for them. this election cycle is not about the r or the d behind our name. we talk about rural

revitalization, access to education, health care, all these things mean something to people regardless of their identity. the i bind their names stance friday once. i am working for all iowa to move all 99 counties forward, but we need leadership to help us do it again. >> on behalf of the viewers, thank you both for sharing your views. gov. reynolds: thanks for the opportunity. >> this concludes our iowa debate series. if you missed part of the discussion or want to watch the base we have had previously, go to iowapbs.org. on behalf of every one