giving freedom a voice global news that matters d. w. made for minds. they make a commitment they find solutions. they inspire. africa. stories about people making a difference shaping their nation. and their continent. w.'s new multimedia series for africa. dummy dot com africa on the move. alone a very warm welcome indeed to quadriga coming to you from the heart of late and the dust is just beginning beginning to settle off the sunday's national election here in germany the vote on the chancellor merkel and historic fourth term

in office but it was a bit of victory with her conservative slumping to that worst defeat in the post-war period and the far right alternative for germany party and to the bundestag for the very first time with just under thirteen percent of the vote how will a weakened merkel respond domestically and internationally a question on quadriga this week after the election what now for oh mexico and to discuss that question i'm joined by three keen observers of german politics beginning with andreas klute of hundreds about global the english language version of that publication who says i'm going to medical is now a lame duck and will get weaker as a fourth term progress is but in a world of bullies dictators prima donnas of trumps cames putin's and out of one's chair remains a law passed best know the word lust that is interesting also with us is political analyst but as a not formally of. very familiar figure on the a.a.r.d. t.v.

network he believes that europe needs angle america's leadership more than ever the day after her devastating election setback she faces the desperately complex task of forming a new coalition and a woman a computer pascoe who could correspondent for the french weekly magazine le point she says with the we can dangle americal emanuel micron's dream of a fresh start for europe is suddenly much more complicated much to talk about those of us begin with you pascoe tell us if you would give us a little bit of a flavor of how the election outcome here in germany has gone down with all the surprises it brought with it. i think it is a big shock in france and probably a big disappointment for emanuel mccomb who two days ago made a big speech about europe presenting his vision of europe for the future and he was sure that if the great big coalition i mean s.p.d. and c.d.u. the socially legal action. was. conducted he had the

chance of at least realising pockley he's program but now it's going to be very difficult with the liberals partly was the greens as well and i think it's a it's a it's a big feeling you have in france that it's at last the front french are back on the european scenes we are young presidents who want to introduce reforms who has ideas about europe and now the germans are going to be at least until christmas discussing this new coalition i mean you know everybody it's very funny because everybody was saying oh the germans are so boring it's going to be the same as usual they would continue to they don't want to expend experimentations and though we're here we are always big experimentation no continued tea and a little bit of coliseum germany address you have been noting all the while i couldn't agree more i mean i was i was smirking when you know the germans do have this reputation they love order they're

a bit boring they're going to sort this out and not see merkel is the best person to do it and suddenly it has become i thought it was interesting all along actually it wasn't boring but suddenly it is becoming a real cliffhanger with a possibility not a probability but a possibility of actually failure so not just negotiations that lees lead to christmas and beyond but even coalitions that lead nowhere at all and then possibly new elections i don't think that's likely but it germany is from the point of view of france which is very important to germany since the election because of the german worry that le pen could be the one next time merkel is real. hoping all for several months too for this time to help mccraw as much as she could that is on hold for the time being for the reasons pascal just mentioned that event is on how much has political mandate been weakened in the last few days it has of gone of course been weakened a lot no doubt about it but is too strong

a word cliffhanger us think is the right description right now this is where we are and it will take a while and we have no government in the netherlands we have had for one and a half you know government in belgium and life continued and therefore the same thing will happen here in germany we are not we are not politically dead we do have a working government and therefore we will see a very very very complicated and complex attempt to form a new government very open ended no doubt about it. but the world can rest assured germany will continue to do is its job there is a phase of insecurity around us no doubt about it but in the end because there is no alternative to this government nobody wants new elections it will happen the only question is when and under what conditions and the conditions will be very

very complicated the voices of reason that i know show that i quite buy into what he's saying just to get a feel for how apparently shellshocked appeared after this vote we have the szell statement from the chancellor let's listen to it and then talk some more. i can i don't know what we could have done differently i put a lot of thought into this election campaign and i ran it the way i planned it. would be safe and i mean i you when i look at that i see until america who is normally so cool calm and collected looking i need a c. word clueless clueless is absolutely the right word for and when we just try to describe the current major players it's even worse in bavaria right know there the word is really big clueless definitely and it was very almost shocked when i heard . on monday saying we did ever sing ok there was no need to

change of course we can't go on like saying bye to us or let's move on like we did before that's impossible and join politics right now the need we do need change no doubt about it and but the central question is what will be achieved that goal and before can really enter into any meaningful negotiations about a new government she has to clarify her relationship with the horses the party see as you will talk about that in just a moment as i just want to hear a little bit more about angela merkel how you know how much how his psyche is at the moment you know the the financial times said she has taken a hit i was quite evocative her psyche i think merkel i once wrote a large piece just about her body language i think it would suggest she has i talked to a psychologist about this low cortisol level she does not get stressed as easily as of other people get stressed i actually have to think even though the situation is intractable she's probably the least or bad or the best person for it so her psyche

i'm not worried about she said something very interesting in the round table discussion on television on election night that in calm there is strength that is her motto so she's going to. stay calm and as you know her principles to slow things down the fact that things will will be slower and will tell her she likes to decelerate things observe allow others to make mistakes so i don't think her psyche is really is destabilized i just think the world the political world in germany around her has actually changed she's in a new situation that will render her weaker what are you telling your readers in france about where these coalitions might go how long they might take and how much jeopardy how much risk there is involved in all this i think i think just to come back to what you've been saying i mean i think and self-control is in the in this world where you have so many loonies around is a very good quality for a leader especially for a german leader because this is

a very important country but i find. a little bit stubborn and almost deaf i mean it would be very important for us not listening you're saying she's not listening to how people i mean more than one million people who normally vote for hogg these are people to vote for a party which is. the best populist the nationalists that the worst the. extreme right revisionists on the tone i mean something quite nasty and she says yes we have to get these people back but i don't hear enough how to get them back i don't hear enough you know you really have to react now against that and let's see if this coalition would manage to get these people back but you have to take these people seriously. then and i think an aspect of the problem that pascal is talking about there is that which we have rediscovered with this election is that germany is a divided country east and west yes it was the alternative for germany getting something like eleven percent in the in the in the west of the country and twice as much in

the east of the country in the state of saxony a very influential and important state in germany they're actually the strongest force in that state. it's pretty obvious this is the case and one can regret it in one has to regret it but that's the fact and she has to offer answers i mean she comes from the east but she never really. never portrayed herself as coming from really coming from the east do you want to be the transfer of all germans rightly so but these people need answers for their various and it's for now it's very hard to explain what's really going on there in the east because when you travel to the east and when you see all these cities and towns rebuild. the lunch often is. it really created. big time and then it's very hard to understand what's really going on in these five

states. but the fact is people do not really identify with the west western germany they never arrive there and this is obvious now more obvious than it has been and therefore. america and the other parties as well need to offer new answers that's just complex that is ok let's just get some pictures now go back to the pan-european challenge now. facing germany and other european countries from the f.d.a. and other similar policies in those other countries. sunday's election was a political trial for the day the party will have more than one thousand in the corner stone. this is end of this is a warning for german politicians that the people want something different but

german people do not accept chancellor merkel's migration policy is to the extent that they have been implemented as. right wing parties now have seats in the parliaments of twenty. that gives the party leaders confidence. that their presence is beneficial and we will continue to work on building the europe we want with the pastor's freedom party has expressed similar sentiments i had a parliamentary election sent for october. our goal is to keep control of our country if that's what we intend to do we have high hopes. for. what sort of europe do the right wing parties actually want. good question pascal we know that they are anti immigration and she is a foreigner and see you all these populist parties across europe now

a genuine threat to the e.u. itself. yeah i mean it. threats it depends how much they're not in the government that's the first thing i mean they have a lot of impact in in terms of influence and voice and made in presence but they're not in the government and so they're not able to make the laws or to decide anything so that's a good thing. it's to fit i think what the manual two days ago is to try and rejuvenate to get some new energy to the european idea and that's a very good thing that the young man he's going to be fourteen december that's another generation. to take the. the relay i mean we know that the older generation who is known the war in france in germany are very pro european no it's this young generation these globalized generation he speaks perfect english that's the first president we have in france who speaks english i mean you have to imagine it is to speak german we have

a prize mr who studied in germany who lived in germany yeah so it's a globalized generation and if this generation tries to revive and to make the people clear how important it is to be united in this world which is very complicated and it's better to be a european bloc then if every country's acting for it says but people are very frightened and interesting i just wanted to say that interesting is that the i fear voter if they voters the right extreme right voters in germany do not vote because they are frightened of losing or it's not their main issue is they're frightened of using their economic strength they vote because for ethnic and cultural reasons they're trying their culture will be taken away their language that they've been invaded by islam so is this you have to can down people and reassure them ok so remember when mark roll is the antithesis to the anti you until euro zone far right let's just listen very briefly to what he had to say earlier in the week when he

really threw down the gauntlet to angela merkel. proposing to germany a new partnership. we will not agree on everything but mediately. but we will discuss everything. to those who say that the task is impossible my answer is you've become pessimistic i have not. some one. hundred tell us a little bit more about karl's vision for europe but what he might or might not get from germany now what he might or might not get from angela merkel whose hands are tied a little bit after this election i sense i think a lot of his proposals are. would have gone down quite well with the german elite just before the election. more collaboration and foreign and security policies all of which are things that make good sense but the important one and the one that's going to cause the problems during these negotiation coalitions is his call for

a common euro zone finance minister a common euro zone budget of physical capacity which the greens in the coming coat coalition talks are for which the social democrats would have been for but they bowed out which some which angola merkel herself might have even entertained but which the bavarian sister party the christian social union and the free democrats rigidly and stubbornly will oppose because they would they think they fear getting punished yet again by voters because they fear that is the beginning of a slide into a transfer union from their point of view where germany will permanently subsidize other countries and they want to avoid that so this will be one of several key sticking points and one reason because it's the big issues that not the smaller they will compromise on the smaller issues but it's actually this time the big issues where they won't get on the same page what would people saying about christiane the head of the liberal free democrats here in germany i mean mccraw

apparently told friends head of the german votes of the liberals and to the government which they look likely to do with these coalition talks work out which he said i don't i can't i don't know what the french word was but he said i'm done for i would be dead i would be dead he said i mean literally said yeah yeah i would do that but i don't know he just said. that he needs you need to be. optimistic so let's be optimistic but their chances that he will be dead. is not at all known in france and now we're discovering him and use this to command he's being compared to the generation of the same time i'm sort of germinating in. that there's a big difference like right. there for the stage i would say end of that remains to be seen i think. going to get a deal from germany well once again yes of course you have to look at what i'm going to michael had to say about yesterday's through her spokes person and he said

in her name that she is praising his speech big time it was very important that he did raise all these important issues issues but in the end she did not support his ideas and this is what we are facing now nobody in germany really wants a transfer union this is the center of the most important point nobody wants that and nobody can push it through this and nevertheless there is some real substance to what he has to say europe has to come out of the status quo has to move forward but the question is how and therefore it is important to say this new coalition bill not be and to european the question will be how could we move forward but definitely not of the transfer union where germany is going to pay big time for the other countries especially in the south. christian or actually said

earlier this week if the idea is to use a common euro zone budget to set up a cash pipeline flowing from germany to other european states that's something we simply won't go along exactly what has just under us know that that that is one of the energy climate policy. diesel gate crisis those are the others those are some of the others and of course refugees is the. it's the biggest but if we could just stay with the euro zone for the sake of that and as one reason why i'm probably more pessimistic than you that these negotiations can succeed. talk a little bit more broadly about what angle america will come in kind of the chief on the international stage you said in your quotes at the top of the show that she is our last hope yeah last hope for achieving what some why the last she stands i mean is interesting right now her stature outside of germany especially in north america by the way is gigantic and even parts of asia it's only in germany

that where we're close to her and we hear her in the original german where we where we consider weak no but what does she stand for she stands for a multilateral not a unilateral world instead of america first germany first china first she stands to for all of us together she stands for cooperation she stands for opposing violating the borders of sovereign states as putin did in the ukraine she stands for what we used to know even including free trade and open and global world as opposed to a closing world of read nationalization that's what she stands for and that's what we used to call the liberal world order it was premature to call her the leader of that order and she herself has said that's grotesque because that's what german leaders must do german leaders since the war have to keep a low profile and to manage expectations down but that's where she is the only possible partner she has on the shall we say multilateral and globalist and

openside is emmanuel mccrone so how is she now currently seen in front you told us about emanuel micro what about i'm going to medical in fronts for the french and it was very interesting during the whole campaign the whole campaign focused on longer the macro lens she's a sort of got this in france or somebody she would like the french like. ability to make compromises she. not corrupt like the french politicians she's very low key she's a muti. and. there's a lot of admiration a little bit like go back shove who was not so much like in his own countries but adored outside i mean it's so in france it's very very clear and i think even if she's lost a lot of power now the french are very relieved that she's there to to to stabilize this very tumultuous world at the moment. i think eighty percent of what you just rightly described as. the virtues of uncle americal will be supported by

a coalition partners as one dividing thing and that is a big one and that is immigration how will we deal with the immigration problem and then you will see a huge difference especially which we see as you have a system padi potter leader. on the bavarian prime minister and the americal and the central question here is the limit will they have put a limit on the number of refugees that can come to germany. once this definitely and. wrist is resisting this and so do the greens and probably well see what the f.t.p. in the end really say about that. but this is the sticking point and therefore they have to find a solution and nobody really knows how this will come about and therefore it already is stated it's the most important question is. if

machall is ready and able to reunite was the c.s.u. . this is the most important question that she has tech right now and until she has reached in and agreement nothing will move forward in these negotiations. i think if i may sort of generalize this too we're seeing across the west times of change so much that the traditional party landscapes are being shaken up you saw that trump is not a traditional republican neither republicans nor democrats knew what to make of him or bernie sanders emanuel rick blew up the party landscape in came with a zone i think if you look at this conundrum that we're in here in germany germany is overdue for this kind of shake up and even though the germans like it stable i think it's coming one of the things for

a possible future show is i can't see if you said five or ten years out i cannot see this partnership between this christian social union and christian democratic union that's lasted for seven decades i cannot see that lasting much longer they're going to go their separate ways sooner or later and i think they're just not willing to admit it yet ok but the question here is who is the new trump in germany was the you might call in germany we only have on the market for the time being or do used does anybody see anybody who is going to mention another maybe you know which name yeah definitely but you're not going to mention it. never do you. fighting against each other and there's the rumor that the pocket might split in two so you know it's not the strongest before last year not in france not as all the nice i've got to draw on then is an encyclopedic knowledge of german politics in the last decades we've got a fourth term chancellor there have been two that have gone before helmut kohl and

konrad adenauer what can you tell us about what clues that might give us about how this is going to pan out. well and then people were tired of him look cool and that is why he lost the elections and that will eventually which is because it is a very normal process will eventually happen to unless he doesn't sound like it for this discussion oh no no not not not any time soon but whether she will be in office in four years from now. no you know i just don't nobody could tap into her like could happen to him look cool and it's all was very complex for a politician to find a way out my theory is that has looked at both konrad adenauer and helmut kohl and concluded that they failed in two ways they did not allow a successor an heir to emerge and i think she will in this term. decide to allow one term merge and that's why she's a lame duck one sentence. i'm going to tell you

i'm going to say the name that we were talking about is fun good that's a good thing back here the former german defense minister we're going to go now i can hear the music thanks very much for joining us have we given you plenty of food for thought what next frankly michael by inches.

yes.

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