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tv   Quadriga - Right- Wing Protest in Chemnitz What is the Root of this Hate  Deutsche Welle  August 31, 2018 2:30pm-2:59pm CEST

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his creations are untrue his brand unmistakable calm the gulf an icon of the flesh and. look what do we really know about the man behind the dark shades what motivates him how does he think and feel private moments in the life of a great fashion designer. starts september ninth two w. hello and welcome to quadriga this week germans witnessed street clashes that reminded some of the mob violence that paved the way for the nazis ninety years ago right when demonstrators rampage through the streets of the eastern city of candidates on sunday hunting down people they believed to be immigrants thousands
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assembled once again on monday and clashed with counter protesters local police and political leaders were clearly overwhelmed critics called their reaction too little and too late the mass violence was triggered by the murder early sunday morning of a german allegedly at the hands of two middle eastern asylum seekers right wing protest in cam that's what is the root of this hate that is our topic today on quite reka it's a pleasure to introduce our guests and we welcome karen taylor she's an expert on racism she's a member of the s.p.d. and heads its committee on migration and diversity and she says as long as germany does not deal with its racism problem more people will be hunted down because of their race and not only in camp. and it's great to have my colleague can spy for on the show he works for d.w.i. as an expert on right wing extremism and he says germany is facing
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a constitutional crisis politicians and citizens increasingly ignore the basic principles of germany's core values and finally we're pleased to welcome back to the program mountain laming he's a commentator for the daily newspaper. and he says the events in chemist's are shocking and disgusting but by and large and especially in the european perspective germany coped with the refugee crisis quite well more than three. three thousand migrants are found a job unemployment is low the welfare system is strong. so welcome to all of you and hans if you would i'd like to start with what happened as far as we know the facts how do we go from a night time stabbing to this kind of an escalation to mass violence and posses hunting down immigrants in streets well be as soon as the. war was spread it that somebody was killed and that that
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through social media people get the information that it probably could have been to refugees committing the crime which is now on the proof of the authorities as soon as this happened they had been in security in the population and the spread the discussion about about violence about refugees as soon as they started and as this as soon as this happened the mobilization started through like through citizens of the city but especially through a right wing groups right wing organizations and they spread the news precisely to the affiliated groups also in other parts of germany trying to mobilize. well it's a mix of the mop of the far right and demonstrators to protest in the city and what then was taking place that
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a mixture of emotions in this city because of the crime together with well organized neo nazis from all over germany kind of taking over the city and what happened was not spontaneous what was taking place in the city it was this well organized scheme we have observed in many other conflicts in cities wherever is something terrible happened which was which was used by organized neo nazi groups for their propaganda motive given the role of social media in escalating this and in steering it what you say actually this is something that could have taken place anywhere it just happened to become it's because that's where the stabbing occurred. i would say these are two different questions is it something that is typical for the eastern part in germany or with the role of the social medias i think social media fuels things very fast because social media
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instantaneously give informations even wrong informations it was even said in the beginning the man who was murdered wanted to help the german goal from from the immigrants and so on all these things which which was actually false and the police has no proof of that but these kings if these things are spread through the social media things are happening very very fast and i would say the demonstrations on sunday where indeed most fontayne you see them play that on monday on the monday there was a totally different affair and i agree completely that was not spontaneously this was organized that happened in the east because the east is a special place for these things i would say that. immigrant. sentiments in the east are in power like in the west or in all over europe the state lost control of the borders crime is high unemployment goes the way. first state is is rude or something like this but there's a special eastern component to this this is a this has to do with d.d.
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our history with the civil war rhetoric they're using we are the people the same rhetoric they used when they brought down the communist regime so i think the anti-communist thirty years ago transformed into anti-establishment anti immigrant movement by no can same question to you essential a the local authorities did to say that neo nazis right wing groups poured in from all over germany your initial statement talked about racism in places far beyond can that would you say that in fact this could have taken place elsewhere as well or do you see a unique local element in this very very ill and violence i think this could have happened anywhere but the amount of violence which we see in kemet and beach which we specially see and saxony is kind of the wrist stick for this state because we
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have authorities we have local politicians who deny the existence off neo nazi groups the existence of the high amount of racism within the state we have some statement from the president of the state who is in completely deny so i belief that it's a linked to this lack off yet realisation happening in his own in his own state on the other side i would also say that we have a main problem in germany a satchel to talk about racism to talk about institutional racism to talk about racism and as long as we close our eyes for this reality i think this will happen can happen anywhere i want to come back to the political response and to politics a bit later but for now let us start by hearing some voices from kevin itself how did the citizens see these events and the role of their city. an interesting term are disappointed in damage that is of course not all sound but the reactions were
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just to the right way. to just let. him give him is his change for the worse for me going to be it's a shame i'm not part of the office i don't want anyone to think i am even if i'm standing here. there's trouble here every evening but perhaps confronting each other i don't want to season so many foreigners you can't go into the city anymore without worrying about something happening to you in front of him which is good how this time said that this is happening here it's getting out of hand you feel unsafe going to the city as an ordinary citizen start to clean. hands to what degree is right wing zina phobia beginning to penetrate the mainstream becoming acceptable even to people to citizens who might think of themselves as absolutely middle of the road. i think it's really popular right at the moment but i'm not really surprised of what's going on because i think it was never absent these
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racist sentiments in the society have never been away and we faced like groans like this in the ninety's in germany we had major text by rightwing terrorist groups which was supported also by part of the mainstream even in the in the eighty's and seventy's with facing a long tradition. of a lack of empathy with the victims of these rights of these far right so this is why i would think it's not surprising that they have that strong but what i would think that right at the moment what makes the situation quite even dangerous for the society is that it's becoming more and more dangerous karen surveys showed service taken this week after the events in canada it showed that a majority of germans condemn the violence condemn what happened there but not a majority of people who support the right wing. a f t party which is very strong in this particular region of germany would you say that the a.f.d.
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which is now present in the buddhist is right we definitely actually called for the first gathering on sunday to mourn the person who died not only to mar in this person but also to show show the amount of rage and anger towards immigrants our so-called immigrants so we've seen it in candidates but we also see it into bundestag to set the language has changed we also see that the other party started during the election campaign last year in germany that not only. on the complete right but also with the other parties we have to name the we also have to name the s.p.d. when it comes to writ rhetorics so i think it's very dangerous that the f.d.a. has set. level a standard which is slow and not protecting migrants all minorities in germany i think. want to say one thing because i think it's very important that this movement
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is not only n.t. migrant it's it's a major part of the their their beliefs but it's far more than just and to my god because they are opposing a liberal society where people we're talking about they are not migrants they are just people of different color maybe it's the grand grandfather and parents that migrated to germany so they're not migrants anymore only by law or by whatever statistic and this is what makes it so dangerous they are opposing part of the german citizens just because they have a different belief they have a different religion and where this makes it we're going to hear exactly that a bit later on. another time when i come back to those particular voices we heard in security that was expressed there it was very clear that the police incumbents were absolutely overwhelmed by what happened and completely adequately prepared the police and so on the evening were five hundred ninety one police officers confronting c. thousand right wing demonstrators protesters and left wingers as well who protesters anti-fascists against them so they were really underestimating
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the level of organizing that was shown by the by the by the right wing or anti immigrants on the street so i think there was a failure of state of failure of of having a clear picture of what happened in their own town this is one thing the other thing is. no i don't have sympathy for them there is something that i mean if the couple of months more than one million refugees of pouring into a country then i think a certain kind of level being concerned about the impacts is quite normal we see that every european state sexily borders poland mongery both are governed by right wing populist parties and if you. italy. austria and scandinavian countries and the success of le pen in france and so on so
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on there is a kind of non german aspects to it there's a european aspect to this. i would say these are normal but the facts don't come close to crime rate is at its lowest level since unification and germany. the the the surplus the budget is going up and up unemployment hasn't risen it has decreased since the influx of german so all these things have to be communicated to the public and i think that's a lack of the the government they don't do it as strongly as they could. a lot of people have been saying in the wake of the candidates events that that surplus in the budget should be dedicated much more to supporting the security services we have seen persistent cuts in police budgets all over germany in recent years would you say looking at what happened in cannes that's that the failings of the police were material in the sense of being understaffed tactical or
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political. i think well they are understaffed i think. would not like to be a policeman and sex and they because they all have in all the different states in german they have problems with being quite badly stuff but i think it's a political problem at its core and that's because we've seen so many places where quite similar situations where started to to grow or to come up but police managed pretty well too to control the situation because they had a better they had a better reaction or a bit of political reaction because they said we have to do everything we can to get situation under control and if and that's what police read in the social media as well as donors because we're all sitting in our office reading social media like oh my god look at all these wiping groups they are mobilizing all over germany this will be really tough let's send our reporters to candidates because it will be a day of violence and so it's hard to believe that the police was not following
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these all these accounts so i would say it's a it's a wrong political decision because they are not the with and they don't have the empathy that's what i would think the they have a leg of empathy with the troubles new nazis could make because mostly they are not they are not the target of this and they might be under stuff but they always could have the federal police for help exact and in fact we do have some indications that the police and other officials at least in saxony may themselves be susceptible to right wing extremist views a case interest and has been making headlines in august at a demonstration by the anti immigrant group peta protesting chancellor angela merkel's refugee policy demonstrator asked police to prevent a television crew from filming from telling him the police honored his demand and
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then it emerged that demonstrate it was a member of the sac. in the state criminal police who just happened to be taking part in the protest in his free time karen taylor would you say there is a major problem with too much proximity between some members of the police at least in this is turn region of germany and right wing groups themselves definitely we've seen it with the terrorists how the group which wasn't discovered by the state police to but rather that discovered itself we've seen it with this example just shown here and i would say if we talk about security we often also have to talk about the security of people who are not white in this country because if there's a lack of security right now there's definitely a lack of security in candidates for me their so-called no go areas everywhere in this country even in berlin and a couple of germany so i believe if we talked about lack of empathy out say it's
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a lack of protecting basic human rights for people who are. living in this country so that is one of the major major issues here but then again in chemists and also sex in itself we've already talked about that this development of from coming from a rap g.-d. ira which was kind off and closed if we also look about at the numbers there not so many migrants there not so many people of color this is the region where we have the fewest exactly or in residence pro-capitalist that seems like an enormous paradox can you explain the researched yet it's a basic first and then come. migration at its low that those. are racist thoughts. you can maybe explain it with dinner the king has said if there is no contact there is fear. so i
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guess it's also and then again being part of a political party i say the politicians have great responsibility here we live in a globalized economy globalized world of course migration and diversity is it's every day life so that to protect me that germany is white and coast and coast country is just wrong so we need to change this this rhetoric about us being protected by everything which happens around us and rather be honest to ourselves and say yeah migration is a reality and we will have people coming in and out of the country like briefly to two points for a route of might be special in sex and the east of germany first of all with the forty years of g.d. our government rules there how was national socialism taught in schools as a westerner has nothing to do with judea history nothing to do with recent history
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the nazis were part of the western society not of the east so this i think caused a tremendous the lack of understanding for the roots of racism and national socialism and these things the second point is sort of dirty with the influx of refugees were in the fall of two thousand and fifteen to get the german government or the germans for for help and for support and show solidarity with these people showing solidarity from bottom up was part of the g.d.r. rough rick so dirty with other communist russians cubans and so on and so on so they got this sort of they are anti solidarity feelings because they were forced to show solidarity in the first place to thirty years ago perhaps the one of the paradoxical aspects is to see in a region that had been communist a swing to a kind of german nationalist thinking that many people assumed was long over.
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let's take a look at one more incident that occurred in the region of saxony last week and the right wing identity tarion movement held a festival raised in our colleague. karim was there he spoke with activists and other visitors at the event and ultimately became a target of racism himself. much to death i don't want germany to stay germany and liked. what does that mean how does this does not it means what i said if you don't understand that that's your problem then you've got a big problem then i don't see encloses coming because i'm an immigrant group reason you're just a german. people back where you came from. it's interesting to hear one of the speakers in that german citizenship essentially saying you are only a german citizen it is troubling they reminiscent for many of us that old blood and
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soil idea of what it means to be a german and this is why i think that we have a constitutional crisis because these voices they have a strong voice now the parliament of germany with the far right if the and they becoming more and more popular and they could even win elections in some regions in germany and because they start to to bring up this this topic that like like blaming germans as not german just because of this skin color just because of the name just because they have doc or whatever just because of their religion that they start to to disfavor them to other germans and that they that they separate and i think this is really dangerous is if those people who started this will get the power it will do the laws then then we will see a different journey than we have nowadays carry this week the the un commissioner for human rights expressed his enormous dismay over what was happening in camden
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and said he wants to see a much stronger response and real action from politicians all over europe but also in germany now we have heard some strong words from german leaders this week but what specifically do they need to do more and i'm asking you also as a member of the social democratic party which is why. one of the parties that is governing in saxony what would you want to see your party doing that it's not doing now several things party to do. like to talk about representation if you look at the different political parties in germany they don't really represent the people in germany because if we look at them it's mostly white and mostly met male so we need to foster and need to start with talking to the people who belong to this country as well and in order to foster them and push them into
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a political responsibility this is one major major issue we have with all the political parties including the s.p.d. another thing is we need to talk about racism not only in the connection off near nazis and right wing extremism but really talk about that issue as such see racism as a structural problem as a problem of problem privileges for one part of the country and disadvantages for the other country and for the other part so we really need to talk about what it means to actually taco racism and not only right wing extremism that's another part and the third thing i would suggest is to really look at these yeah look at the south really look at these areas in germany which are troubled we don't want to put all of these germany into one pot but it's not a coincidence that is this has been happening again and again in saxony so we
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really need to look at these different sound one where do you fault the s.p.d. leaders in the for not taking a stronger stand i mean we see t.v. or leadership in saxony so for that yes i do blame that it would leadership definitely thank you very much not a living plans to sentences what the politicians need to do that they're not doing now there's a strong you have to. to point out to successful self interest. many many refugees in work in labor in the know and languages and things like that and then they don't have to give them the chance to show themselves to be german the germans know. policies have to strengthen those who call those in those small the rural parts of germany for twelve cosying this violence will pose in the fall right into opposing racism. thank you very much to all of you for being with us and thanks to you out there for turning and see.
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look i see it. through. find various perspectives. that's the best way to experience most of them. he has to canvas this juggling artist who's in. his shows us how. you're lomax in thirty minutes on d w.
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i not go out and they will not succeed in dividing us and our not succeed in taking the people off the streets because we're tired of his dictatorship. taking the stand global news that matters d. w. made from minds. we make up of but we watch as over half of them under such a five we ought the seventy seven percent. want to shape the continent's future to. be part of enjoying african youngsters as they share their stories their dreams and their challenges. the seventy seven percent. platform for africa is charging. this as a fifteen year old girl. being gang raped.
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his teacher is beating a boy for talking back in class. but the rest of the class watches. and cheer and talk first being killed by his mother. breaking up lots. of child sleeps in the streets because her family through her. here. online. pushes a teenager over the edge. just because you can see violence against children doesn't mean others and there are make them visible visible. mike violence against children disappear.
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this is d w news coming to you live from berlin calling time of a long running dispute to the european union is set to end the practice of putting their clocks forward and back in summer and winter the e.u. says it's responding to the will of the people and we look at the pros and cons of scrapping daylight savings time also coming up ah ah.

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