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tv   Quadriga  Deutsche Welle  June 21, 2019 6:30am-7:01am CEST

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the cultural magazine. 21. w. . the people of the world for t.w. on facebook and twitter up to date and in touch from the us. welcome to quadriga the eyes of the world have been on hong kong this past week as more than a 1000000 people throng the city center to demand the government we tracked a proposed law that would allow extraditions to mainland china police responded with tear gas and rubber bullets the rallies stunned hong kong chief executive carrie lamb who has now apologized and suspended the unpopular proposal that the protesters want nothing short of her resignation and full cancellation of the
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legislation they fear that it could become a long arm for beijing to apprehend political opponents and undermine hong kong's autonomous status. hong kong versus beijing power grab postponed that's the question we're posing today and here are the who will be. born in hong kong cherie challenge works mainly for the social media department she says the fresh round of protests served as an important reminder for people in hong kong that they still have a battle to fight until 2047. pleasure to welcome. a freelance journalist. who formerly worked with the economist. he says despite growing resistance of hong kong people and especially its young.
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and friendly we're very pleased to have with us the activist he was involved in the movement that emerged during the hong kong democracy protest in 2014 he was granted asylum in germany last year. we don't want hong kong to become just another city in china. so welcome to all of you let me ask you just start out by talking a little bit about the current situation even after the suspension of the proposed extradition law the protesters have made it clear they're not calling it quits apparently messages have been circulating on social media you're a social media expert calling for protesters to escalate their actions quote unquote what could that mean what do you expect the protesters on now organizing. demonstrations. i think they don't expect to have such. a fall then they stay what they said that they would come back that. the chief
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executive said it will be withdrawn and they also the. charges on the protesters who were arrested so we're seeing. his truck. demonstration like a rave would you say that carrie lam the chief executive of hong kong that her apologies and her suspension of the legislation was a genuine climbdown a genuine retraction or is the government just biding its time. yes i think a truth a dolphin just buying the time to let the whole case screwed on in the international community because last week to millions people on the streets drew a hitch attention some day international community like the u.s. . has set that she was raised to each issue of hong kong in g. 20 i think it's
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a hitch procession to the hong kong gotham's thank you and we will come back to pressure from outside a little bit later on but. for those of us who are less well acquainted in kong with hong kong it may have seemed a bit surprising at 1st that what appeared to be a procedural law would provoke this level of mass resistance in fact you called it heroic resistance what exactly is at stake and why is it that you think this year roic resistance is likely to prove futile well that's a lot to me what was a stake this was a rich man this was an idea the idea is to. allow the courts to extradite people to china or taiwan with who doesn't have an extradition treaty has been around for a long time and never went anywhere and then there was a case about a home can couple very young went to taiwan and came back that gave kerry lamb puppet of beijing the excuse to suddenly accelerate that which made everyone think
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that she wants this not to extradite the alleged murderer that that was it was a murder case to taiwan because by the way taiwan said we don't want this anymore once they figure it out but to open a back door into the hong kong judicial system which is based on english common law and still is pretty clean but to let people be extradited to mainland china and once people understood made that connection they realised that this is probably the most profound threat of many threats since they hand over. to hong kong liberties and that's where what they want in the street went on to the streets in a way that i think is nothing short of heroic and why is it you think that that hero wisdom won't actually count in the long run you said it your century the futa the chinese the mainland chinese from a western point of view were famous for their long time horizons there's even apocryphal jokes about that but they waited a 100 years to get home kong back in 1907 then they made
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a deal for 50 years and at the time we in the west were hoping well a lot can happen in 50 years maybe hong kong will change china more than china will change on kong it's now completely clear that times have changed china is in a trade war is standing up to the u.s. in a trade war they want there they want to make islands and 2 aircraft carriers in the south china sea they're really seizing what they view as their historical prerogative to be a major power and everything points to crack down xi jinping who doesn't want to lose face and i think the long term direction is we're going to slowly turn up the heat and then in another you know it's been 22 years since then over come 2047 i think it's curtains so cherry your opening statement describes the protests as part of the battle that hong kong has to fight until 2047 until that deadline that under described he's saying the battle has already been lost. i think most people wouldn't think that this time they have
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a fake sheet because suspect that you. but. it's a reminder for them that it's not only the bigger they are posing it's actually their whole system behind the whole fight for democracy the whole how to one country to assist in that they need lives and i think as you have mentioned before into us of 14 there was a protest and read a movement and after that since no office outcome has been achieved i think of. that many hong kong people actually lost hope a baby and they lost the momentum of what they were fighting for but then this fresh round of protests remind them that this is a this is a very ongoing fight this is a long battle that they have to keep coming out again and again to fight so pinions i want to talk in just a moment about the link between the 2014 protests that you were so much a part of re and the ones we're seeing now but let's hear the voices now of some of
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those who were out on the streets of hong kong this past week and who clearly believe that this battle must be fought. for your p.c. on the go to you that we must teach the children to tell right from wrong. hong kong students came out a piece of the express their opinion that even though they were a little impromptu the police should not on this rubber bullets tear gas and backgrounds to deal with the students. so just a delay not a full council a sort of tense in the law so i think this is not over for until this is a complete stop to those who are legally know what they mean by you know what more can we do what if all you have to be they call us rioters but i bet our gear is just a raincoat guy and a helmet maybe you know you're getting on that but they have
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a ton of money and they can make us believe. you i don't think that we young people came out to cause trouble we are fighting for a better future for hong kong boy. gun with me. so those those voices must sound familiar to you tell us a little bit about your experience during the 2014 protests whether you think they made an impact whether you think they made a difference and perhaps what you would want to say to these protesters today on 1st of all i think the. difference between the protests in 2014 and the protests today in 2014 as chile we we gain nothing from the gotham and and even dole we have stayed in the streets for 79 days but that the government didn't listen to us they didn't listen to all foreigners
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all that democracy but this time. the mental or the way of protesting is different from 2014 but a rough lucian well is that larger or more more will fuller what makes it different . i think the biggest difference is that this time there is no a significance leader sold every protester they have their own followers they do what they think is useful to a protest very interesting so would you have a message to those young people we just saw on screen. i would say now the political situation in hong kong is totally different from 2014 as
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true after 2014 a lot of hong kong people loss of its hole in hong kong but also this time we can see that international. attention is very useful to give proof to the times skulls and as well as the hong kong government to change their mind or to make a bit concessions so i think all the protests in hong kong should keep their hope and try their best to tell the international community was pulling in hong kong and how importance of cherry how far would you expect the government to go to suppress protests if as you said there are continuing rallies escuela tory actions even what do you think the government's likely to do. i think the suppression of the protests will only be justified if it's clear.
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or clash between the police and protesters and so as long as the protests as they keep their calm remain peaceful i don't think the government has the recent to stop people going on the streets just to say things that they wouldn't like and so or would have to see like what the protest plans. but i wouldn't say that they make a lot of efforts to. disperse the people. under it's sometimes difficult to get a reading on kerry lamb at least i find the chief executive of hong kong at times in the beginning she sounded like the mother of a recalcitrant child very strict then when she apologize she actually sounded at least genuinely distressed you said she's a puppet reaching so she simply acting on beijing's marching orders meaning it wasn't she who blinked it was beijing she claims that the extradition idea was her
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own idea but of course i wasn't even making this an ad hoc attack against kara lam who seems to be a sort of colorless bureaucrat for the most part but the truth is all of the i arrived in hong kong that was told she was and then are still at donald chang and then i left and there have been a couple of since they're all puppets of beijing that's the way the system is set up that's what you guys were protesting against you wanted to reelect them and the and legit go but also the chief executive directly and they're not so of course it is understood that they're there in part to represent the interests of beijing and that's not against kerry lamb i think it whether she if she were to resign. which could happen as we speak the that they would there would be a new puppet it wouldn't solve anything as far as i'm concerned. joshua was an activist who played a leading role in the 2014 protests and was then sent to prison has just been
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released he says the demonstrators are rallying now so that quote unquote the quote they don't suffer the same fate as the students on tiananmen square 30 years ago is such a crackdown imaginable in hong kong a tiananmen square type crackdown. treated on the 1st 3rd often better than i had this fault because there were rumors that the tanks from china were crossing the border and police were holding that gun pointed to our face i think one international community has no interest in hong kong to china they can do whatever they want in hong kong very interesting so let's take a look then at the link between hong kong and china hong kong in fact has long served as a bridge between china and the world acting as a conduit for trade and investment in both directions let's take
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a closer look at relations between the 2 and what that means for the rest of the world. boasting over $7000000.00 inhabitants the special administrative region of hong kong is one of china's most important trading outs. when britain transferred sovereignty of hong kong to china in 1907 beijing agreed to guarantee the existing political and economic systems for 50 years according to the principle of one country 2 systems. hong kong's autonomous status guarantees civil rights such as freedom of the press and the right to protest. but these are under increasing threat as beijing's influence continues to grow. only hope of the 70 seats in parliament are elected directly. and chief executive kerry land was appointed by a largely probation election committee. arrests of the pro-democracy activists such
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as the recently released joshua one are also increasingly frequent. will beijing stick to the free transfer agreement. so let me pass that last question straight on to all of you and start out with you . do you think that the agreement will hold even till 2047. in mouth in me and i think it will all these things that china is trying to do now it's not to push that. to be reached like i think what they want to do is just to make sure that. gradually and slowly hong kong will become more similar to just other cities in china and their power. to hong kong people were less. less. obvious just before that they was reached and so they just want to have this
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gradual change so they $47.00 it will be. peaceful and crack you change off the systems but you know obviously home people are not buying that andreas so you're clearly skeptical about the group agreement holding in the long term what about the short to medium run well and not necessarily by the greenman holding on paper because remember that point about the time horizons it's not it's never been in china's interest to have a tenement square on the streets of hong kong because one thing the chart from china's point of view that it always wanted to one country 2 systems in both hong kong and macau to be was 2 demonstration projects for taiwan they were hoping to convince taiwan look if you ever want they want to gather all the chinese lands back into the mother country basically and for that they need to show that look we stick to agreements otherwise they can kiss taiwan goodbye it may be that she
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jinping has now decided well to one is gone anyway so it doesn't matter i think what could flip it is if xi jinping who's made himself basically dictator for life recently changed the chinese constitution if he's thought he was losing face he could overreact short of that i don't think they will overreact and they will keep doing what they've been doing since i was there was there in 2003 at that time the problem was something called article 203023 they keep subverting hong kong's liberty in subtle ways until 2047 when it's barely noticeable and then and so my pessimism or even we're already halfway through almost the 50 year period that we've got one more generation and it will be it will be a steady gradual decline of liberty and then it will just be another chinese city ray i have to say when i was watching that report. i found myself asking what's it like to live in a place where a clock is ticking toward
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a deadline that could mean a completely different political system and a loss of liberty what can you tell us what that means for daily life for people living there. so it does for it's for the young generation in hong kong because we grow in the plays where we can enjoy freedom and the rule of law and. democracy but when we look at the china trend as a chinese city where the people have no freedom they have no freedom of speech is really desperate and read don't want to live in such a city just really go to the streets to fight for democracy in order to keep distance from china. let me come back to the question of pressure from outside re talked about donald trump saying that he would bring
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upon kong status when he meets apparently with eugene ping on the margins of the g. 20. to what degree though would you really expect any country right now to truly stand up for hong kong visit when there are so many tensions already. between for instance the u.s. and china after these protests actually many countries including the e.u. i think they put us they munns thing that they support the protesters and they think that all these protesters they have their rights to force their opinion but then they really make it very often if. they want democracy in hong kong. but i must say i think hong kong people this time around compared to 2014 they really way smarter and more careful because we see a lot of protests organize in different countries in australia in the u.s.
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in europe and they really are trying to get as much international attention as possible so with the international pressure i would say it's something too for the government to back down a bit but as for china. i don't think it's been a place that big grow in can if this is how they want to go off and. under is how much to hong kong stability and prosperity matter both to the west and also to china as i was looking at the figures i found it quite interesting to see that hong kong share of china's overall g.d.p. g.d.p. has dropped quite dramatically so question is would china really care if hong kong were to go into an economic tailspin. they would care but probably not as much what china has up to now. needed hong kong
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for is a finance center that brings capital in and out so a lot of i.p.o.'s have not just been happening in shanghai but also in hong kong because it is a. common law and so forth but what if been seen for many many years now is it is it changing the division of labor among the asian financial centers or france is a lot of the currency stuff is now in singapore a lot of the the direct investment in china is increasingly in shanghai so from china's point of view that is part of the long time arrives and they're hoping to arrange things so they need hong kong less and less and that shanghai plays a larger and larger role with support singapore and hong kong and taipei and seoul and tokyo so. china will will manage that and not care to mention as far as the west unfortunately i'm very pessimistic either the dollar who cares donald trump cares a hoot about this he cares about the china in terms of a trade war and he's his advisors are telling which is true there's
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a pop potential for a hot military war at some point and he cares about north korea or where she jinping has been staging himself perhaps to get out to get out of the news cycle with func pictures there he's walking around with the north korean dictator who who don't trump is trying to be chummy with don't trump does not care really about the freedoms and liberties of hong kong and the europeans and the germans care even less because they're being ground up there and they had their their trading mentality their being ground up germany in particular between this american sign or american trade war they want that settled and they don't want a larger war in the region and when push comes to shove they're not going to make hong kong something that they would. you know risk capital im sorry if i come back to our title whether the power struggle between beijing and hong kong has simply been postponed at best would you say that pressure from outside is
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essential in order for that power struggle to go hong kong's way and if so are you confident that hong kong can be more than a bargaining chip that both china and the west would happily throw away if they need to i would say a lot of international business set up their branch in hong kong expression because this the rule of law and they trust the legal system in hong kong and so i think the economy is really going cheap for hong kong to win this battle. and maybe actually if they're on that ship they can us because to be honest that i i don't think they international community really pay a lot of attention to human rights or the democracy in hong kong to say but yeah ray i was interested to see when i was reading up a little bit about your life here in germany that you have said that germany's experience of reunification gives you hope for hong kong can you just tell us to close the show why that is. because i met some german people that they have told me
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that. they have. never fought west germany and the new road if they reunite but somehow it's happened soul that they never lose my hope to a dictatorship they were eventually did. so. looking toward that power struggle that our title talks about. how do you think it will come up. i think 1st of all the international community should. shut. crozier to the hong kong government and to china often and so i hope turman concert i'm going to cut will raise the hong kong issue in g. 20 thank you very much thanks to all of you for being with us today and thanks to you out there for 2 new world see you so.
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never tell us about. let's ask our players experience a modern museum center with her the russian cultural heritage foundation berlin a few researchers are looking for answers in more than $5000000.00 objects each object relates part of the history of mankind. the prussian cultural heritage foundation common structural and 15.
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logo to the euro max new to china. the final story. with exclusive sights. and a must see concerning parts culture you're a. place to be for curious minds. do it yourself networkers. so for subscribing and don't miss out. i think in everything challenging 1st i'm having a muslim. so much different culture between here and there challenging for him to play a. full service i think it was worth it for me to come to germany. i got my license to work as a swimming instructor at a seminar to children 100 adults just robust of justice system. what's your story
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take part sheriff on info migrants' dot. com. hundreds of eaves in my hands. but i come from your remains an important means of transmitting and for miche and when i was young my country was in brawley called. the war people. people would cause them. to see. it was mine joel took 2 in one off the lot of just say it's sold out to everyone in the county court and listen to those against us. letting cars in france and my long in jonathan morris on the law even stop i caught us i was a twit and for. my choices in this car and it was even
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a way to transmit patrols. and in the question how much and i. did have a. student protesters in hong kong have been gathering outside government offices they are demanding that the city permanently scrap a bill that would allow suspects to be extradited to mainland china for trial nearly $2000000.00 people took to the streets on sunday to demonstrate against the bill. large crowds angry over the visit of a russian lawmaker have tried to storm georgia's parliament building in tbilisi right.

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