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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  October 8, 2020 10:30am-11:01am CEST

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i think the impact of having any pain. in the future so they seek refuge abroad but to become a. straight. talker 61 g.w. . here in brazil everything is ok for you preparing for the military to intervene we are not a military government brazil is in the news these days for all the wrong reasons allegations of high level corruption uncontrolled illegal logging and 5 is raging in the amazon rain forest added to that the 3rd highest figure in the world for covert 19 infections my guest this week from brasilia is the country's vice president. how did the government let it all get so bad.
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vice president how milton were our welcome to conflict zone a few months ago you told journalists everything's under control we just don't know who's just how bad is the chaos in your administration. everything is ok in our administration that was a kind of a joke that i used to say ok it was not very straight for war war that i put it was a joke only a joke because here in brazil everything is ok. what sort of joke was it you had to health ministers who were gone in the space of a single month during a health emergency and justice minister resigned and education minister hurries off to the us just days after stepping down from the job saying i don't want to fight
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leave me alone don't provoke me isn't that enough chaos for you now it is not things that happen in any government ok the way that their vacation minister went out well it was not a big problem for us ok and you know brazil is a very different country and well some things that happen here that happen in other countries it's our culture so why did you write an op ed may the 14th you said no country in the world has inflicted more harm on itself than brazil and you warned that institutional damage was driving the country into chaos you were the one who mentioned the chaos and your attention to it you said we've become incapable of the essentials in facing any problem sitting at the table talking and debating that was a powerful indictment of your own administration wasn't it because your leaders like you who are supposed to unify your country. well the country is
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suffering what happens all around the war there isn't an excess of of true believers and politico the political sides are all very glad to see pull our eyes and it's a lot of polarization in politics but. our administration is running the country well and so far as to day things are getting better and the relationship between the different powers are getting each day better and better so as we had some difficult times some months ago but now everything's ok really and added to that the president his family and several associates are kneedeep in criminal and legislative investigations is that ok to. this question it's still under investigation and of course it's than the hands of the judiciary system and we
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have to wait for. us to get it sent by warning about all this chaos as you did last may were you preparing for the military to intervene and start to dealing with the chaos in june the president openly floated the idea of military intervention saying the armed forces would not accept absurd decisions by the supreme court of congress is not was not a threat. that's not a that's not true 1st of all them and force are aligned with their constitutional mission and they are not stepping out of the it syncs here in brazil. are going to use moose and well and where we have to make it very clear that democracy is a value of not only for mr bowser not his government but for us to our am and forced to so there is no any anywhere and there is no threat to the supreme court
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or their jobs or to have system here in brazil and the fact that he attended rallies outside military bases when his supporters called for an armed intervention to get rid of governors judges and lawmakers who imposed lockdowns in response to the pandemic no threat there either i suppose well the question of the pandemic people have to understand that brazil it's a very unequal country where we're unequal socially economically and of course geographically so since the beginning of depend emic it we've been trying to deal with their health for weeks the economic curve and with this curve that's the way that mr bowser not a government dealt with this pandemic well he attended rallies which called for an armed intervention didn't he to get rid of governors judges and lawmakers what's that if not a threat to democracy you want to play the us is not a threat to democracy but the governor of south paulo thought it was good and. the
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governor of south paolo said brazil i said face up every day afraid of aggression to democracy to the constitution to the congress to the supreme court president both scenario he said stop this endless aggression. this is happens because there is polarization in politics the government of some paulo opposed to mr burleson out of this is much more talk down there that say action when is it going to here's the happens it's a new way to people behave that not dangerous it's dangerous to have power to do what you mean but nobody has the power to do what they mean we swards here in brazil plenty of people seem to think you're doing politics through fear these days eduardo cost of pinto from the federal university of rio he says this is the problem of having a government filled with military personnel during an institutional crisis the
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military will fight tooth and nail to stay in power and they have guns which makes political mediation difficult why fill the government with all these military personnel if you are not planning on the military taking over power 1st of all it's got to be very clear that we are not a military government mr both are not and i were elected by more than 57000000 brazilians ok and of course we have some people in to govern that come from the military but they are here sinking for the good of brazil and respecting our constitution and our loss the federal audit court is now investigating what it calls the excessive presence of the military and civil public service and it is excessive isn't it the court said in june there were as many as 3000 military personnel in government jobs what do you need 3000 of the military in government jobs for. well 1st of all it's have to be very clear that any government in brazil
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has more been 2000 military in government jobs because we have a security cabinet that belongs to that a president that has more than 1000 military people and in this count of military people are those who work at the defense ministry so we don't have such a huge number of military people. dead a civil jobs in our government that's some kind of that scene formation that came through some different channels and are all these military personnel qualified to do the jobs they're doing i'm thinking of the current health minister as well oh he's an active duty general who followed orders from the president is that his only qualification he doesn't know anything about health or drugs does he well you don't need to be a doctor to be the house minister why do you need to be it's mandible understands the public administration and more that you don't mocked up with rupture and of
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course mr puzzle will loads are not about logistics that was the main problem in our house minister and he knows how to a bay orders more than the other health ministers does he mean those to do as he's told that's his main qualification is it well he has the qualifications and he has been do we have a very good job and this has been that they asked about all their secretaries of the different states here in brazil they are all very pleased with the job that mr puzzle has been doing because all the necessary support for it to fight in control depend them has reach it every point in an hour in our country. mr vice president mr paulson r.-o. has never hidden his admiration for brazil's former military dictatorship do you share that admiration well we had a period of
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a military presence that lasted about 20 years they had they did a very good sings for brazil another sings they didn't go so well and this is history and history can only be judged when time pass we are still some 50 years away from that period we need some more 50 years so that this period can be judged well well during the vote to impeach former president dilma rousseff mr ball so narrow dedicated his balance to one of the regime's most notorious torturers this man was convicted of torture during the 21 years of military dictatorship last year your president called him a national hero 502 cases of torture were identified in the unit he ran you have nice heroes in your administration these days don't you. first of all we had on
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we don't agree we started torturers is not. a politics that our country simpatico to it and of course when there is a lot of people that fought there you are but guerrillas judy in the late sixty's and beginning of the 7th of last century and many of these people have been wrongly accused of being torturers so colonel carlos alberto is still was wrongly accused the new also think of him as a hero do you despite the cases the 500 cases of torture which were attributed to his unit. what i can tell you about him and carlos are back to brilliant used to he was my commanding officer and you're in the late seventy's of their last century and he was a man on or and a man who respect the human rights of his subordinates so bent of sings that people tell about him i can tell you because i had a very close friendship with this man that's not true so he was wrongly convicted
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then of torture was see it was all made up while the trial was fixed 1st of all. i'm not aligned with stuart and of course many people are still alive from that period and all and all of them want to put sings in the way that they saw that's why i told you before that we have to wait for all these sectors to disappear so debt history can make its part and of course what really happened during that period that period come through well given that you and your president i'm not prepared to condemn the torture is only torture can you not understand why so many people in brazil and internationally doubts your commitment your administration's commitment to democracy and you understand that well democracy it's one of the nash of our nationals pair money and objectives we
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don't see brazil out of democracy our main objective today is make of brazil the most brilliant democracy in the 1000 and sphere really and with people like al gusto hal a no minister of institutional security another retired general he's on record as saying he believes it's up to the military to put this house in order this house meaning brazil another threat you have all these people who are prepared to make threats but you say there really isn't a threat i'm confused mr vice president gore. like i like i have been telling you this makes parts of the discussion that we have the polarization in politics ok it's must really ward's then actions because you want name one single action from mr bozo not a government that was a real real real scratch to democracy here in brazil but words matter in politics don't they you play it's all down but even the supreme court's chief justice tom
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foley warned in june about the president's dubiousness about democracy he said dubiousness that's not a great characteristic for a democratic leader is it these dubious about democracy well i think there is no way to sink. the other is that some dubious of feelings of the mr bozo nodded to democracy including last saturday for instance mr bowser not and mr tough fully aware eating together in a dinner so if mr copley had any doubt about the way mr bowles and i have behaved they would not be together in the heat in their house in his house by the port but that. your former justice minister sergio morrow accused the president of interfering in an investigation into his family basically attempting to obstruct justice this is a highly damaging allegation from a minister who used to be well liked and respected by mr bowles and was in it well
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mr morell may dislike you zation views are being investigated through their supreme court we are waiting for this investigation to come through ok of course we have to wait for dead it is process to end i myself. will work i'm side by side with president bush for not joining all this time and i can tell you that he did not interfere in the federal police in their work and to federal police so that he could help some of his sons that are being accused of some wrongdoings how do you know he didn't did he tell you that he didn't have i know that well well i've been with mr bozo not of since i have to tell you we've been working closely together and i can tell you he is not interfering in the work of the
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federal police a federal police is doing our job they are investigating all diskettes they're our system is investigating the problems that one of his sons has so i see that this process is going their way all process go here in brazil. mr vice president how important is truth in your administration let's take the issue of deforestation and the fires this year in the amazon august the 10th you said government agents were executing urgent measures to contain deforestation and fires a day later president both sonera said the exact opposite you won't find any spot of far he said nor a quarter of a hectare deforested the report that the amazon is burning is a lie in fact it was his statement that was the lie wasn't it because the amazon was clearly burning at that point well it dawned and i what happens and we've been
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working very hard to stop an illegal deforestation and illegal fire that happened in the amazon what has been clear is deforestation has been increasing since to tell us and 12 accelerate the last year since that 2nd half of this month of june last june deforestation has been decreasing so the work is beginning to pay now and of course we still have the problem of the fires we are in the dry season there i see this one year to year is beginning to be very bigger and bigger and of course we have to have more resourceful have to put more a source in the fight to hand against the legalese that happens in the amazon area yeah but when mr bronson our august 11th said there is no fire the report that the amazon is burning is a lie that itself was a lie wasn't true was it simply wasn't true so by lying about these things
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what happened. what happens in the amazon for the question of fires it's very clear we lot of people that we have some more than 500000 farmers in the amazon area and some 5 percent of dinner about some 25000 farmers they work their fields with fire and that's well that's a very. system to work the field so we have to make them we stop this so debt. don't grow year to year the fact is these are the worst 5 in a decade on day in september you know satellites recorded more than 32000 hotspots in the rain forest 61 percent rise over the same month last year and in both september and august when you would tell the president was telling us there were no 5 the blaze matched all suppose last year's single month's high so the science
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direct to feel amazon environmental research institute said we have had 2 months with a lot of fun it's already worse than last year satellites can see it why do you deny it's worse than last year now we don't deny we don't deny anything ok september of 20 has been a war since september last year but like i told you before some 70 percent of these fires are raging atheist that have been over read it before asked it many many many years ago that are occupied by farmers only one search of them are happening that they wouldn't do should not to happen and we a fight and then since the beginning of their green brazil to operation that we lounge and since the month of may where we stop at some $6000.00 points of fire so we have been doing our jobs. you've been doing your jobs but. not very
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effectively it seems according to reports on the ground if the fires are that bad and there are still $32000.00 the hot spots in the rain forest the 61 percent rise over the same month last year that's not very effective is it well like i told you this season is very dry so it's a moment that fire happens and of course you say 32000 hot spots 32 does the hot spots in 185 median square kilometers i think you are can agree with me that's not so huge are people watch telly around the wood ok because the amazon is very huge so what's being passed into all around there were dead the whole amazon is in fire and that's not happened there fires happen like i told you in ages that have been already before asked that since many many years ago mr vice president the accusation from human rights groups is the george ministration has deliberately
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undermined efforts by your own federal agents to stop deforestation human rights watch says that while federal authorities impose thousands of fines for illegal deforestation a presidential decree has allowed most of them to go on paid what's the point of doing that no we don't comply we've seen the galaxies in the amazon by for instance our. environmental legislation to say that any property in the amazon can explore 20 percent of the sadia they order 80 percent has to be preserved but if you let we will be as a way with. you let people get away without paying fines why almost everyone gets away with not paying well lines well. so if people don't pay fines they gave the don't pay they file their fines their land that they have is going to be arrested but so far as today we have a problem of regulation of the land tenure we need to regulate gives this
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a big problem that we still have in brazil ok. we are dealing with this in the national council that i'm the head of the council and that's one of my main objectives i've been working together with culture minister so death we can go ahead with this because it's very important that we solve this problem because only repression against people who are making sings wrong it's not true not and they legalities we need to advance with their land can you regulation but why should these criminal groups involved in deforestation stop when the when you know penalties are taken away and they're not even obliged to pay fines means everyone gets away with it with no penalties which is exactly what you wanted a mr ball scenario made no secret of his intentions he openly attacked his own environmental agencies which he called industries of fines and promise to end the
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festival of sanctions so he made it quite clear that he wanted to take away the sanctions take away the punishment and let all the illegal logging go ahead he was quite clear about that. as to both or not he spoke about debt when he who as a candidate and a candidate you know it speaks about a lot of syncs oh i was it wasn't true it wasn't true there's. all the report's going to be around say that's exactly what he's done we put in some pretty $100000000.00 in fines that's a lot of money ok so our environmental agents they have the freedom to do their job they are putting fines on every bar that are doing illegalities. well that's not the reports coming from the ground mr vice president final word on the pandemic when it comes to the corona virus you have around $4700000.00 confirmed cases the 3rd highest in the world after the u.s. and india more cases than all of europe not
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a great record is it well like i told you before brazil has a lot of rain equalities we are not an equal country we have problems in the social and economic and job you know of course we have our geography here in brazil so we try to fight the best way possible we regret most 150000 brazilians that we lost their lives but we have cured more than 4000000 people here in brazil so why think that despite this number of cases and number of deaths we dealt a very good wish to spend democrats how much how much use was it for the president to call it just a measly code and say to people i think almost all of you will catch it one day what are you afraid of about being afraid of dying or having how long term health problems or blood clots not much he has not much sympathy for his people have seen
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. of course we prepare wouldn't have been always concerned about the people the president since the beginning of the pandemic said it very clear we have to take care of their health and we have to take care of the economy because we know that a lot of people here in brazil they well they have very difficult to wear and their money because we are in that we live in a period of crisis that we don't have jobs for everybody people leave in a formal way and from night to day just people lost any chance to have some kind of revenue so the president who knows the common people knew that about all right vice president how will tomorrow thank you very much for being on conflict thank you. of of. give.
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of. of of. give. us. good. good. going to. get good.
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thing. a country where children often learn to shoot before they can. brake. country where people worship guns. a country where the victims fund no longer willing to stay silent in our society america's love affair with guns. in 15 minutes on t w. in
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the eye of climate change. africa's most of. what's in store. for the future. comforting megacities the multimedia inside clear counter. this is so no story a stubborn rice farmer from thailand. his problem past. his crew go no chemicals. and he's trying was. the students are trying to get past those who don't stand a chance. of training success. tucker shatter me starts october 15th on d w. do
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nearly all. of the morning. cannot sleep because you're all for losing money. in those swollen swollen to. lose all the rules. there's no use no love. for them would. be your one accusing them of. oh you can't sleep. couldn't sleep. to use.
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this is the day of you news live from berlin the coronavirus dominates the u.s. vice presidential debate the american people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in history apart from the very 1st day president donald trump has put the health of american 1st couple harris and mike pence facing off debating issues ranging from the supreme court appointments to the climate what were their answers will have someone else. plus a concerning job take.


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