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tv   Corona Spezial  Deutsche Welle  October 9, 2020 12:30am-1:01am CEST

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don't. seem. to be. discussing. subscribe. documentary. here in brazil everything is ok for you preparing for the military to intervene we have a military government brazilians in the news these days for all the wrong reasons allegations of high level corruption uncontrolled illegal logging i'm fine as ranging in the amazon rain forest i did so that's the highest figure in the world for cope at 19 infections my guest this week from brasilia is the country's vice
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president humble. how did the government let it all gets so bad. vice president hamilton were our welcome to conflict zone a few months ago you told journalists everything's under control we just don't know who's just how bad is the chaos in your administration. everything is ok in our administration that was a kind of a joke that i used to say ok it was not very straight for war war that i put it was a joke only a joke because here in brazil everything is ok. what sort of joke was it you had to health ministers who were gone in the space of a single month during
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a health emergency and justice minister resigned and education minister hurries off to the u.s. just days after stepping down from the job saying i don't want to fight leave me alone don't provoke me isn't that enough chaos for you now it is not things that happen in any government ok that their way that their vacation minister went out well it was not a big problem for us ok and you know brazil is a very different country and well some things that happen here that happen in other countries it's our culture so why did you write an op ed may the 14th you said no country in the world has inflicted more harm on itself than brazil and you warned that institutional damage was driving the country into chaos you were the one who mentioned the chaos and drew attention to it you said we've become incapable of the essential in facing any problem sitting at the table talking and debating that was
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a powerful indictment of your own administration wasn't it because your leaders like you who are supposed to unify your country. well the country is suffering what happens all around the war there isn't an excess of of tripoli is politico the political sides are all very glad to see pull our eyes that is a lot of polarization in politics but. our administration is running the country well and so far as to day things are getting better and the relationship between the different powers are getting each day better and better so we had some difficult time some months ago but now everything's ok really and added to that the president his family and several associates are need deep in criminal and legislative investigations is that ok to. this question it is still under
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investigation and of course it's than the hands of the judiciary system and we have to wait for their disposal as to get it sent. by warning about all this chaos as you did last may were you preparing for the military to intervene and start to dealing with the chaos in june the president openly floated the idea of military intervention saying the armed forces would not accept absurd decisions by the supreme court of congress is not was not a threat. that's not a that's not true 1st of all that i'm going to force are aligned with their constitutional mission and they are not stepping out of the it syncs here in brazil . are going to use muson well and where we are to make it very clear that democracy is a value of not only for mr bowser not his government but us to our am and forced to
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so there is no any anywhere and there is no threat to the supreme court or of the jews that have system here in brazil and the fact that he attended rallies outside military bases when his supporters called for an armed intervention to get rid of governors judges and lawmakers who imposed lockdowns in response to the pandemic no threat there either i suppose the question of the pandemic people have to understand that brazil it's a very unequal country where we're unequal socially economically and of course geographically so since the beginning of depend amica we've been trying to deal with their health for with the economic curve and with this that's the way that mr bowser not a government dealt with this pandemic well he attended rallies which called for an armed intervention didn't he to get rid of governors judges and lawmakers what's
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not it's not a threat to democracy you want to play of the us it's not a threat to democracy well the governor of south paulo thought it was good. the governor of south paolo said brazil i said face up every day afraid of aggression to democracy to the constitution to the congress to the supreme court president both scenario he said stop this endless aggression. this is happens because there is polarization in politics the government of some poll opposed to mr bush or not of this is much more talk than that say action when you see here's the happens it's a new way to people behave that not dangerous it's dangerous to have power to do what you mean but nobody has the power to do what they mean we swards here in brazil plenty of people seem to think you're doing politics through fear these days
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eduardo cost of pinto from the federal university of rio he says this is the problem of having a government filled with military personnel during an institutional crisis the military will fight tooth and nail to stay in power and they have guns which makes political mediation difficult why fill the government with all these military personnel if you're not planning on the military taking over power 1st of all it's got to be very clear that we are not a military government mr bowser not in ny where elected by more than 57000000 brazilians ok and of course we have some people into gaza that come from the military but they are here sinking for the good of brazil and respecting our constitution and our laws the federal audit court is now investigating what it calls the excessive presence of the military and civil public service and it is excessive isn't it the court said in june there were as many as 3000 military
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personnel in government jobs what do you need 3000 of the military in government jobs for. well 1st of all it have to be very clear that any government in brazil has more didn't 2000 military in government jobs because we have a security cabinet that belongs to that a president that has more than 1000 military people and india's scholars of military people are those who work at the defense ministry so we don't have such a huge number of military people. civil jobs in our government that's some kind of that scene formation that came through some different channels and are all these military personnel qualified to do the jobs they're doing i'm thinking of the current health minister as well oh he's an active duty general who followed orders from the president is that's his only qualification he doesn't know anything about health or drugs does he well you don't need to be
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a doctor to be the house minister why do you need to be it's manageable understands the public administration and more that you don't mocked up with sector option and of course mr punch will loads are not about logistics that was the main problem in our house minister and he knows how to a baby orders more than the other health ministers the c minos to do as he's told that's his main qualification is it well he has the qualifications and he has been doing have very good job and this has been a task that about all the secretaries of the different states here in brazil they are all very pleased that we've stayed job that mr puzzle has been doing because all the necessary support for to fight big in control depended amica has reach it every point in our car and our country. mr vice president mr paulson
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r.-o. has never hidden his admiration for brazil's former military dictatorship do you share that admiration well we had a period of a military presence that lasted about 20 years they had they did a very good sings for brazil another sings they didn't go so well and this is history and history can only be judge it when time pass we are still some 50 years away from that period we need some more 50 years so that the spirit can be judged well well during the vote to impeach former president dilma rousseff mr ball scenario dedicated his ballot to one of the regime's most notorious torturers this man was convicted of torture during the 21 years of military dictatorship last year your president called him a national hero 502 cases of torture were identified in the unit he ran you have
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nice heroes in your administration these days don't you. first of all we had on we don't agree we started tortures it's not. politics that our country is simpatico to it and of course when there is a lot of people that fought the your bunker realize judy in the late sixty's and beginning of the 7th of last century and many of these people have been wrongly accused of being torturers so colonel carlos alberto is still was wrongly accused the new also think of him as a hero do you despite the cases the 500 cases of torture which were attributed to his unit. what i can tell you about him and carlos are back to brilliant used to he was my commanding officer in the late seventy's of their last century and he was a man on or and a man who respect the human rights of his subordinates so bent of sings that people
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tell about him i can tell you because i had a very close friendship with this man that's not true so he was wrongly convicted then of torture was easy it was all made up while the trial was fixed 1st of all. i'm not aligned with stuart and of course many people are still alive from that period and all and all of them want to put sings in the way that they saw that's why i told you before that we have to wait for all these sectors to disappear so debt history can make its part and of course what really happened during that period that period come through well given that you and your president are not prepared to condemn the torture is only torture can you not understand why so many people in brazil and internationally doubt your commitment your administration's commitment to democracy and you understand that
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well democracy it's one of a national of our national pearman and objectives we don't see brazil out of democracy our main objective today is make of brazil the most brilliant democracy in the 1000. really and with people like al gusto hal a no minister of institutional security another retired general he's on record as saying he believes it's up to the military to put this house in order this house meaning brazil another threat you have all these people who are prepared to make threats but you say there really isn't a threat i'm confused mr vice president gore. like i like i've been telling you this makes parts of the discussion that we have the polarization in politics ok it's must really ward's then actions because you want name one
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single action from mr bozo not a government that was a real real real scratch to democracy here in brazil but words matter in politics don't they you play it's all down but even the supreme court's chief justice the us tough only warned in june about the president's dubiousness about democracy he said dubiously that's not a great characteristic for a democratic leader is it he's dubious about democracy well i think there is no way to sink a. big get there is that some dubious of feelings of the mr bowser nodded to democracy including last saturday for instance mr bowser not in mr tough fully aware eating together in a diner so if mr koppel he had any doubt about the way mr bush on our behave they would not be together in the heat in their house in his house back apart but that. your former justice minister sergio morrow accused the president of interfering in
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an investigation into his family basically attempting to obstruct justice this is a highly damaging allegation from a minister who used to be well liked and respected by mr bowles and was in it well mr morell may does like you say chanst views are being investigated sue their supreme court we are waiting for this investigation to come through ok of course we have to wait for dead it is process to end i myself. will walk i'm side by side with president bush for not admitting all this time and i can tell you that he did in not into a feud in the federal police than the work of the federal police so that he could help some of his sons that are being accused of some wrongdoings how do you know he didn't did he tell you that he didn't have i know that well well i've been
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with mr bozo not. to tell you we've been working closely together and i can tell you he is not interfering in the work of the federal police a federal police is doing our job they are investigating all this case and did our good sharing system is investigating the problems that one of his sons has so i see that this process is going their way all process go here in brazil. mr vice president how important is truth in your administration let's take the issue of deforestation and the fires this year in the amazon august the 10th you said government agents were executing urgent measures to contain deforestation and fires a day later president both sonera said the exact opposite you won't find any spot so far he said nor a quarter of a head deforested the report that the amazon is burning is
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a lie in fact it was his statement that was the lie wasn't it because they are muslim was clearly burning at that point well i don't and i what happens and we've been working very hard to stop an illegal deforestation and illegal fire that happened in the amazon what has to be clear is the forestation has been increasing since to tell us and 12 accelerate the last year since that 2nd half of this month of june last june deforestation has been decreasing so their work is beginning to pay now and of course we still have the problem of the fires we are in the dry season that i see as one year to year is beginning to be very bigger and bigger and of course we have to have more resources we have to put more a source in the fight to hand against the illegality that happens in the amazon area yeah but when mr bowen so narrow august 11th said there is no file the report
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that the amazon is burning is a lie that itself was a lie wasn't true was it simply wasn't true so by lying about these things what happened. you know what happens in the amazon for the question of fires it's very clear we allot of people we have some more than 500000 farmers in the amazon area and some 5 percent of dinner about some 25000 farmers they work their fields with fire and that's why our that's a very. system to work the fuel so we have to make them we stop this so debt. don't grow year to year the fact is these are the worst 5 in a decade on day in september you know satellites recorded more than 32000 hotspots in the rain forest 61 percent rise over the same month last year and in both
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september and august when you would tell the president was telling us there were no 5 the blaze matched all supposed to last year's single month's high so the science direct to feel amazon environmental research institute said we have had 2 months with a lot of fun it's already worse than last year satellites can see it why do you deny it's worse than last year now we don't deny it we don't deny anything ok september of 20 has been a war since september last year but like i told you before some 70 percent of these fires are raging atheist that have been over read it before asked it many many many years ago that are occupied by farmers only one served of them are happening that they wouldn't do should not to happen and we a fight and then since the beginning of their day green brazil to operation that we lounge and system must have made where we stop and some 60000 points of
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fire so we have been doing our jobs you've been doing you know jobs but. not very effectively it seems according to reports on the ground is the fires are that bad and there are still 32000 the hot spots in the rainforest the 61 percent rise over the same month last year that's not very effective is it well like i told you this season is very dry so it's a moment that fire happens and of course you say 32000 hotspots 32000 hotspots in an age of 5 median square kilometers i think you can agree with me that's not so huge are people watch telly around the wood again because the amazon is very huge so what's been passing through all around there were that the whole amazon is in fire and that's not happened there fires happen like i told you in ages that
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have been already before asked that since many many years ago mr vice president the accusation from human rights groups is the joy of ministration has deliberately undermined the efforts by your own federal agents to stop deforestation human rights watch says that while federal authorities impose thousands of fines for illegal deforestation a presidential decree has allowed most of them to go on paid what's the point of doing that no we don't comply we've seen the galaxies in the amazon for instance our. environmental legislation say that any property in the amazon can explore 20 percent of it sadia they order 80 percent has to be preserved but if you let we will get your way with. you let people get away without paying fines why almost everyone gets away with not paying well lines well. so if people don't pay
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fines they gave they don't pay they file their fines their land that they have is going to be arrested but so far as today we have a problem of regulation of the land tenure we need to regulate these this is a big problem that we still have in brazil ok. we are dealing with these in the national council that i'm the head of the council and that's one of my main objectives i've been working together with culture minister so death we can go ahead with this because it's very important that we solve this problem because only repression against people who are making seems wrong if you do not and they legalities we need to advance with their land can you regulation but why should these criminal groups involved in deforestation stop when the when your penalties are taken away and they're not even obliged to pay fines means everyone gets away with it with no penalties which is exactly what you wanted
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a mr ball scenario made no secret of his intentions he openly attacked his own environmental agencies which he called industries of fines and promise to end their festival of sanctions so he made it quite clear that he wanted to take away the sanctions take away the punishment and let all the illegal logging go ahead he was quite clear about that. as to both or not he spoke about debt when he who as a candidate and a candidate you know it speaks about a lot of scenes oh sorry it wasn't true it wasn't during those. all the reports on the ground say that's exactly what he's done we put in some $300000000.00 in fines that's a lot of money ok so our environmental agents they have the freedom to do their job they are put in fines and everybody that are doing illegalities well that's not the reports coming from the ground mr vice president final word on the pandemic when it
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comes to the corona virus you have around 4700000 confirmed cases the 3rd highest in the world after the u.s. and india more cases than all of europe not a great record is it well like i told you before brazil has a lot of when equalities ok we are not an equal country we have problems and assertion economic and then job you know of course we have our geography here in brazil so we try to fight the best way possible we regret most 150000 brazilians that we lost their lives but we have cured more than 4000000 people here in brazil so why think that despite this number of cases and number of deaths we dealt a very good wish to spend democrats how much how much use was it for the president to call it just a measly code and say to people i think almost all of you will catch it one day
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what are you afraid of about being afraid of dying or having how long term health problems or blood clots not much he has not much sympathy for his people have seen . of course we prepare i wouldn't have been always concerned about the people the president since the beginning of the pandemic said it very clear we have to take care of their health and we have to take care of the economy because we know that a lot of people here brazil they well they have very difficult to wear and their money because we are not we live in a period of crisis that we don't have jobs for everybody people leave in one informal way and from night to day just people lost any chance to have some kind of revenue so the president who knows the common people knew that about all right vice president how will tomorrow thank you very much for being on conflict thank you.
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thank you of. of of of. of of of. of. of. good. good. good. good
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get good. to the point of strong opinions clear positions international perspectives. after days of uncertainty don't just say donald trump no longer has any covert 19 symptoms so what's behind the president's mysterious recovery and will the corona undamaged decide the u.s.
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election find out on to the point shortly. to the point. of the 90 minutes on d w. they're going to unofficial estimates more than 1200000 venezuelans need in colombia legally and illegally. already a wide return to vast. to visit friends because i don't think i'd ever go back there to live you know what i live there again i don't know so i'm not sure. witness the global news that matters. made for minds. to go beyond the obvious. that the live. as we take on the world. the fear all of the stories of that matter to you the book never get to the the
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plug lovelace. play respect. the be. plagued . this is d.w. news to live from berlin and germany's capital declared a coronavirus hotspot as the number of cases in berlin it cost as a key threshold tougher restrictions are already being introduced also coming up on the show. violent protests against a new labor law in indonesia that's meant to boost an ailing economy police arrest hundreds of demonstrators decrying what they see as
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a threat to workers' rights. and a surprise choice for this year's nobel prize in literature 7.


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