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tv   Germany and the Cold War  Deutsche Welle  October 13, 2020 11:15am-12:01pm CEST

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meant hash tag and sars who started the 1st online campaign in 2016 is encouraging people on twitter to keep on demonstrating he doesn't want the protests to fizzle out this time without real reform you're watching d.w. news coming up next we've got a documentary film for you all of germany and the cold war the forget you can spot it just a lot of it t.v. dot com i'm terry larson you'll find me on twitter at t m news stream thanks for watching. and you hear me now i guess we can hear you and how the last 2 years gentlemen sound so when we bring you an angle of madoff and you've never had to have surprise yourself with what is possible who is magical really what and moves and also who talked to people and follows her along the way from our midst and critics alike
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joining us from apple's last stop. the cold war was an ideological war people said you know that it's got clear what system is best what system will prevail. in fact a big star a long time the issue of who was more confident economically 2 years was not totally clear despite and in the west the sputnik shock caused total panic sets half of the proof of. how surprising was that now it's us who are showing the west showing the americans what technical progress is to issue from the. dumb minds god who said i'm going to get to the military doctrine at the time was mutual assured destruction we were the furthest prepared to talk. really we're. just going
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to throw in the 1st 15 minutes of a war germany would have gone up in flames like a tool which. you had we were really scared because it could all kick off any time someone goes crazy and bam we're in the. the 2 bonded. in the early 1970 s. the world was largely divided between 2 superpowers and for moscow and washington the fight for supremacy remained an ongoing battle with upgraded weapons new proxy wars a new perceived threats there seem to be no end in sight to the out of control arms race. the plans of the united states in the soviet union still saw germany as the main theater of a potential new hot conflict. this would be the stage for any devastating 3rd world
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war. both east and west germany were awash with troops tanks and countless other weapons with each superpower blaming the other for the arms race. meanwhile people in the west were watching events unfold on television and a new proxy war between the superpowers in southeast asia as the us waged war in vietnam. in the form of. the remember of a stranger in need was an incredibly savage conduct like we did with napalm bombs that the fully hated entire swaths of land and. the vietnam war was far away but all too close. it was a conflict that would also have a major impact on the cold war inching the perception of america in the west while
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reinforcing the country's image in the eastern bloc. safin of monday time i was deeply shocked by some of the footage we were shown. he shouldn't put pictures of people lying dead in the street it's. too terrible. vietnam had been a divided country since the pullout of former colonial power france in 1954. min the leader in the north wanted to establish a united communist vietnam with the support of the soviet union and china determined to prevent that scenario the us sentenced troops to support the south of the country a new proxy war and suit in which both washington and moscow were involved whether directly or indirectly by the end of the 1960 s. at the height of what a stance of lee had been a civil war the us had half
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a 1000000 men stationed in vietnam it was a war waged without mercy more than 50000 american troops died half of them under the age of 21 the soviet bloc supported men with east germany providing medical assistance and domestically to the one party state in east berlin insisted on its people helping the north. vietnam in them in health vietnam side so the damage is cut so shocks you would fund raising campaigns were launched asking us to donate money for vietnam do you feel vietnam be spending to have inside them up thank you family man you sure know about it. yet you always on schmutz think fish on your phone would get cindy trying to make a fall when you're in here for a new me i get you and then check one maybe comment. i discovered that most of the money was used solely to buy arms however people really did send packages i can
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remember that we too took that seriously i thought it was a good thing when she was. in 1975 the war ended in victory for the north vietnamese and a further blow to the supposed that moral superiority of the west estimate. something casualties of the war primarily been amazed civilians range between 2 and 5000000 people peace in vietnam was at least followed by a period of detente between the 2 superpowers culminating and the whole in ski accords in 1975. the $35.00 signatories pledge to settle disputes peacefully and to observe fundamental freedoms and human rights including west and east german leaders and which met and hanukah human rights invoked by east german activists. the hope now is for at least a slowdown on arms escalation and closer economic cooperation between the 2 blocks . and it was the germans who benefited most from these
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agreements. the berlin wall was perforated and labeling the passage of goods and loans and for germans to visit relatives on the other side of the divide . to what was now in each case an alien country. this country on the whole environment was extremely oppressive acquitted by a man involved so just visible every last in that. it was difficult. to simply detach a little printed matter we had with us this regarded as propaganda material it respective of whether it was the stand news magazine a women's magazine or a novel that made no difference it was seen as i began to material. due to material shortages in east germany relatives in the west would often bring particular foods and consumer items with them as presents
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a range of goods were unavailable simply because the east german authorities sold them to the west for hard currency. some were openly displayed in shop windows the us was well aware of this growing source of income. we forget for example that if you were a west german citizen you wanted to visit the east you had to pay a large fee even go across the wall and and if there were all kinds of subventions and subsidies that the rich west germany paid to east germany and in my judgment that kind of that kind of economic support those subsidies simply prolonged a very corrupt in effective inefficient regime. it was a regime that continued to invest a large share of its budgets and new weapons such as the r s d 10
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a new generation of soviet missiles known in the west as as as twenty's they were faster and more accurate than the missiles of the 1960 s. plus the launch pads were mobile. the arms race entered yet another new phase. the us responded by deploying a new arms arsenal for europe the pursing 2 and cruise missiles medium range ballistic missiles said to be highly advanced. yet done months may do so beautician boots of a time i spoke to soviet ambassador fallen about the issue oh yes he told me nightmares stories about the capabilities of the cruise missiles from the person they're so accurate he said that they could fly through a soccer goal and through but to a few. now
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you can understand how close we were to a nuclear disaster through. at the same time it was becoming increasingly evident that the soviet union was arming itself into bankruptcy the economy was stagnating well its industry was outdated and shortages became the norm at this. news and this was a country that had won the war and built up communism but it couldn't feed its own people it's unbelievable. the problem the newspaper or the truth was the main mouthpiece of the soviet regime one journalist. in moscow in 1970 he quickly realized that reporting the truth would not be easy be a bit tough to know your endorsement in west germany we regarded every soviet citizen as a k.g.b. agent whether they were a diplomat or
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a journalist or whatever you described you can bursley in moscow we were seen as agents of west german intelligence or the cia this being and we did this so you got used to looking in your rearview mirror to check whether you were being followed or not. and it was with satisfaction that you noticed you weren't driving to moscow on your own mission. in moscow now with land it never to help the military continue to showcase its arsenal on official parades western journalists were prevented from gaining insights into the soviets military situation. by spirits my eyes are. going to give us and i was always keen to get footage of the legendary s.s. 22 fishermen on top and i would often use liquor or little leather items to make this or that person more inclined to help me. but i still couldn't get a look inside the wooden crates and the hordes queues to vanished some good west
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german journalist brits pike and spent 7 years in the russian capital. he also looked for stories otherwise hidden behind the propaganda sought in the process establishing contact with political opposition figures and dissidents. such as andre sakharov. under his often wolf but at the time. was the central figure among soviet dissidents soviet one year on a nuclear scientist who had now turned its back on the regime as he's done now before numerous had been targeted whenever i went to see him being used and oddly enough in the light in the hall in the building where he lived was broken i was in my. house for capote as i climbed the stairs behind and again i encountered shadowy figures. of i had to work my way around our bed to diminish duration. the west also had its shadowy figures as both sides conducted
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a clandestine conflict. the cold war had its fair share of real life james bond stories. in one case an insurance agent made copies of classified west german defense documents over a period of 2 decades. and passed them on to east german intelligence. which helped lead to a full of feel good i also photographed of course with a daylight developing technique and sometimes there would be 4 or 5 strips hanging down in my shower to dry. open for an additional when they were then cut up into sections like this which could easily be slipped into a wallet with a secret compartment when he called them one in and of least close to the wallet was then simply exchanged for the one the courier was carrying when she wouldn't let him clear the tallest. attended a number of protest marches in west germany in the 1960 s.
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and came to the attention of east german military intelligence. it was tough to knew much as i met someone who said are you going to let yourself be beaten up by the police from you tube you can do a lot more for detente if you go to. blond and inform on the ministry of defense clearest it was during this time that de to pop a gun stepha his new friend was a reservist officer and the west german armed forces and was hoping to get a job at the ministry of defense and bomb an ideal recruit. at 1st i couldn't believe my ears a clerk on the planning staff stuck. as a began taking photos of documents forwarded them to the authorities in east berlin . he would meet his contact officer in hungary or other countries just behind the iron curtain traveling via interact routes or sometimes undercover. different crews only one of the even in those
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days passenger flight data were evaluated that's how it was so at the time i had 5 past 4 x. o's was little that enabled him to switch identities and airport transit areas. in addition to forged i.d.'s he also used fake mustaches so this led to sure there is of course a lot of tension involved and he was and you need to be clueless when you're crossing borders with the false identity you go to this is what i knew what was involved and so i accepted the tension and the stress my role brought with it visual. and calls can look east germany referred to spies like as agents of peace and perhaps they actually did help to prevent an outbreak of war. brussels home to nato headquarters
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its offices contain top secret information on the western alliances nuclear arsenal as well as military maneuvers west german lieutenant colonel klaus gats was involved in the planning of the latter. among his aides was senior secretary. i was a lot uncertain. if i miss if i say she was a very hardworking person she was usually in the office at the weekend as well which always earned her a great deal of respect. we were really impressed by her commitment and festus much as always on the she of. one of the maneuvers class gets oversaw was when texas simic was due to begin on march 5th 1979. 4 and found march 4th the evening before earl rang me to say that she would be in a little later the next morning because she had a dentist's appointment so. that next morning clausen gets as
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well as his nato colleagues and the wider world would discover that there was another dimension to his secretary's commitment and hard work. to the county and i received a call from count dorf a correspondent with the events newspaper. are you sitting down he asked yes why do you know where your ursule is also fox she's got a dental appointment i replied i don't think so albany laurenson was an east german agent based at nato operations command in brussels the 40 year old secretary and a male companion had led to east germany by a yugoslavia west german federal investigators suspected a case of sex be a notch like other intelligence agencies east germany had spies trying to seduce officials on the other side in order to gain classified information it was hard especially the news came as an absolute shock to us because we realized that she
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knew that basically all needles confidential material was stored with us the guy must be out in october. shortly afterwards rosa laurenson went public she told viewers on east german t.v. that nato had plans to. attack the eastern bloc with nuclear weapons it was going to it's crucial so to plan a. because i'm the only. us who had to count. on it if it helped on a clue that. he committed to destruction stuff and i think it's both sides of a cold war had always stressed they were merely interested in self defense but did the west intend to attack what exactly did those a launce a know and why is she telling the truth no it seems she mentioned specific targets she simply could not have known about it i didn't know them by that nobody did know because nuclear planning had the highest secrecy rating of all in nato not true for
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. the language she used was not her language english there is no doubt that they practice with her beforehand what she should say. east had scored a propaganda coup although even today it's unclear exactly what it was a lawrence a new she remained in east germany but her marriage to her male companion and suspected spy failed after the fall of the berlin wall and the communist regime she fled to libya her whereabouts since then are unknown. as for what she did represents the most serious case of espionage nato has ever experienced not to touch. meanwhile west germany was itself swamped with weapons. for some conventional anti aircraft missiles were installed right next to public roads. in 1980 almost a quarter of a 1000000 american soldiers were stationed in the country distributed across 850
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facilities and barracks the cold war was omnipresent. the nato double track decision of $979.00 secured the deployment of new nuclear weapons and west germany while at the same time continue. during disarmament talks. it wasn't until 983 that this highly controversial agreement was a ratified by the west german parliament. it deep dish but i thought i noticed that certainly from mass unfinished on smitten. dog's name biden start. us there in shadow i notice it's business and then always leave their minds as zeid each side does encompass vision good on earth is a good common. green party politician auto shilly was referring to ronald reagan
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who was subject to increasing skepticism among other west germans bit that same year peace demonstrations against nuclear rearmament reached their peak the nato double track agreement embraced disarmament talks a stance of at least on october 22nd 1983 half a 1000000 people protested in bonn alone one of the biggest demonstrations in german history almost as big as the popular uprising in east germany on june 17th 1953 and there were further demonstrations in hamburg west berlin and stood guard over 1000000 people took to the streets of west germany to protest against the deployment of nuclear missiles bigger fish those were of interest it was truly. it was an outcry only limited scale of course it was incredibly impressive. you know the number i remember young men and women standing outside my home and
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protesting at the double track agreement the women said to me we are not going to bring any children into this world they were that radical kind and added this world is doomed to take hold in tortures they stood in front of my house for hours his emotions ran high. a situation was highly charged. a situation in which understanding between the 2 blocs was indeed becoming less and less likely in march 1903 u.s. president ronald reagan spoke of a crusade against communism let us be aware that while they preach the supremacy of the state declare its omnipotence over individual man to predict its eventual domination of all peoples on they are they are the focus of evil in the modern world the. time when reagan spoke of an evil empire of a nuclear conflict was considerable. international peace programs whether they involve conscious education awards have had all ceased but all you had now was
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hostility and the feeling that you could already hear the guns of war. in 1983 the soviet union shot down a south korean passenger jet after it had strayed into soviet air space all 269 people on board were killed including 63 americans. instead of the planned disarmament talks a new escalation in the cold war looms. and the world held its breath. as the 2 sides mustered all the technological means available the arms race entered a new dimension u.s. plans to intercept enemy missiles from outer space threaten to upset the military balance the soviet union washington assumed would surely be unable to compete with america's strategic defense initiative s.d.i. and for many hope was kindled with the appointment of
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a new leader in moscow in 1905. from. 1905 and became the new soviet leader force and suddenly we began to imagine what changes this might see in khan. proclaimed openness and transparency in discussions to. us all in the contrast of the g.d.r. where everything was still clothed in secrecy in the soviet union it was suddenly possible to talk openly about problems. in contrary opinions were also tolerated order as one country of a. good. mikhail gorbachev's biggest problem was the soviet union's ailing economy. the country was deep in debt and urgently needed to reduce its military spending. at a superpower summit and the icelandic capital reykjavik in october 1906 gorbachev proposed sweeping changes among them
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a call for the 2 sides to cut their weapons arsenals and half at 1st president reagan rejected the offer. and the prison crew for not to grow beards there was then this press conference for which gorbachev did something incredibly crazy and smart toes and he sat down in front of a 1000 journalists who had lots of questions to ask your they didn't get to ask one was because once gorbachev had a microphone in front of them goofily didn't stop talking to me oh yeah. well you might you know i want you to hear. that not only for me but. well. not. the boot but he talked and talked and his message was this was a good summit meeting goes on for this was the start and we will achieve
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a good result in the meantime reagan had landed in washington and read the news and you know what else could he say but not that it was a good summit meeting and after that they did have a productive discussion on zinser. the new course taken by gorbachev also affected change the relations between people in the east and west. earlier in 1906 t.v. stations in the u.s. and the soviet union broadcast a citizen's summit via satellite in which residents of seattle and leningrad were able to put questions to each other. posner was the presenter for the russian channel. the discussion goes off to a lively start with questions such as. who is. why this and why that. people never expected to be so many questions. and they
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had their own national was the reason for the vietnam war. and then they really had a go at one another. a fisherman stood up a good looking american wearing a leather jacket and asked him what exactly are we doing here. i wish this wouldn't be all we could get to know you i think it's a bad way to start i wouldn't have come here if i would've known it was going to be this political i thought i'd get to get a chance to know more of the russian people. their show you've got to realize one of controversy about what they're trying to do now and i really feel unfortunate i wish we could sit down and meet with you and talk to ask. you to. interested in each other it was a perfectly normal discussion between people and it was as. if we were sitting around a table and enjoying a glass or 2 and of course it had a very special dynamic a blast and. the broadcast was a huge success with over 100000000 viewers and the soviet union and 6000000 and the
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united states the american presenter later said we reached out instead of lashing out briefly the cold war faded into the background for ordinary people chop continued with his reforms hoping to modernize russian society and the economy in order to catch up with the capitalist west. the newly won freedoms however saw growing internal criticism of the system they were public protests by the mothers of soldiers killed in afghanistan the soviet invasion of the country had become another proxy war between the superpowers and a moral and economic disaster for moscow the soviet union speak nom in 1908 gorbachev ordered a pullout of soviet troops after a 10 year occupation the final phase of the withdrawal was overseen by gen boris gromov on february 15th 1909 he was among the last group of troops to cross the soviet afghan border where he was welcomed home by his 14 year old son. joe dumars
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when the instance of a groom. to collect the war in afghanistan had a huge psychological impact nationally that that we were. the men who fought then certainly wouldn't agree with me because they see themselves as a brotherhood and often one of heroes you're all. know that someone. but actually it was a defeat and there were a lot of lies about the number of fatalities. useful some coffins were even used for transporting narcotics quit you go it was a serious psychological blow throughout people to see knew. it was a disappointment and a complete loss of faith in the government but as it should have you. what you do
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sack reviewed gorbachev's new policy of perestroika also impacted on the rest of eastern europe in september 1987 east german leader every one of a arrived in beaumont to meet west german chancellor helmut kohl images of the historic visit suggested a relaxing of relations while also indicating that the status quo would remain a divided germany but most of us didn't see those changes coming and when i say most of us are not simply talking about americans but also west germans knew we had meetings with with west german diplomats with people in the b. and d. and others nobody saw the end of the wall really coming. in fact i remember maybe in 198788 i had some german businessmen at my residence in bonn for dinner and they were telling me how the east german economy was the was the best economy in eastern europe that they were that those companies in east germany were
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were really good companies because well they may have been living in they may have been in a communist system they were still german but east germany was struggling economically with the left dated factories and parts of its towns and cities still looking war torn a growing number of people now wanted not only to travel abroad but to leave the country for good in hungary also part of the communist eastern bloc the border to austria was briefly opened in september 1909 unable to thousands of east germans to flee to the west. it's. meanwhile thousands more were seeking refuge in the west german embassy in the czechoslovakia capital krog as communist regimes in eastern europe and the cold war itself appeared to be close to an end. but many. he stayed behind in
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the hope of bringing about change back home by voting with their feet in a different way the now legendary monday demonstrations in leipsic grew in size from one week to the next but there were fears that this opposition would be crushed the uprising by east germans in 1953 had been suppressed by soviet tanks. if the east germans wanted to do in the east germans debated this they called this the chinese solution. are we going to do our own chin and square but will it be in wipes that they could roll in the tanks and put them down there at the hospital beds ready and they'd come to the russians or say we join us and support us if we start killing a lot of our people frankly the soviets no longer believed in that and i think it's to their everlast to everlasting credit of michelle gorbachev and others that they no longer believed that their view were so sure they were right that they were willing to kill hundreds or thousands of people to impose their view
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of what was right on them. they it was great statesmanship at a very difficult time. on november 9th 1989 the berlin wall fell the ultimate symbol of german division and the cold war a momentous event celebrated by germans on either side of the border and on it. once again the eyes of the world were on berlin. the spark for change in communist eastern europe had come from poland in the early 1980 s. and now various regimes were succumbing to the calls for freedom. in december 1909 romanian dictator nicholai ceausescu was toppled in a popular revolution hungary saw a peaceful and successful uprising and in contrast to the prague spring of 1968 soviet troops did not intervene in czechoslovakia. but in moscow mikhail gorbachev
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himself was at risk of being removed by hardliners. we could always feared the stage i remember during the winter of 19891991 of the conversations with chancellor kohl we talked about the danger of what might happen if this if you know we thought it any time there could be a coup or an overthrow of power in the soviet union we began worrying about this in 1909 and even developed a secret army group to work on. and cole had a wonderful expression in this call. it's like the farmer who needs to quickly gather in the hay before the storm because the storm could come at any time and we knew that. sensing a desire among germans for reunification the west german leader was eager to seize a golden opportunity. although he needed the go ahead from the superpowers.
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in the immediate end of the cold war when i think helmut kohl who understood the yearnings of the german people called for vitter for i knew going and got the support of of president george h.w. bush for that despite the fact that margaret thatcher and friends for middle ron may have had some 2nd thoughts i think it became inevitable i think the majority of the german people wanted to see it happen but where would a reunified germany stand between the cold war fronts helmut kohl began negotiations with gorbachev and promised to help with the problems his country was facing. on february 10th 1990 cole was in moscow through if he was promised that if he provided generous help and support a united germany could be a part of nato and another to side. with the soviet union was desperately poor. helmut kohl ordered donations of food to help the country heading into the winter
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of 1998. and also to further the cause of german reunification. in july 990 cole visited gorbachev and the latter's native caucasus region of southwestern russia. footage of the 2 men in casual clothing seemed a world away from the cold conflict that had pitted west against east for decades. good news that's different. kind of hard when you write your own request and gabacho fister bindy i live in for talking real. if your mission still in front of forward standing up to. just kind of dodged round to cyprus and sign a file or go sign
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a follow on your shrink just to have any teeth found that. kind fry on serbs and child. oh very good this is. on september 12th 1900 the 2 plus 4 agreements finally pave the way forward to german unification. the soviets would begin withdrawing their forces in east germany with helmut kohl pledging to cover the resulting costs. and munich germany was prepared to accept our demand. we needed 14000000000 to build accommodation for the troops to be withdrawn from germany and other things for the 3rd of. october 3rd 1900. after 4 decades of division germany celebrated its reunification. in berlin
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until then the pivotal heart of the cold war. for germans the magnitude of the moment perhaps failed the fact that the cold war was not yet over that the world was still full of nuclear missiles and now that too was the subject of negotiations. richard berke was among the dignitaries on the american side the last major battle of the cold war took place in a negotiating room in geneva. one of the secrets of negotiation of international negotiations like this is you're not just negotiating against the other side you're negotiating with your own capital. i mean everybody everybody back in washington was watching what i was doing and they were afraid i was going to give something away. the americans knew that their economy could cope with the potential
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of the arms race. but the soviet union could not a weakness that washington was able to exploit. the president told me president said listen rick. you know you've got to be prepared if we can't get the kind of agreement we need you've got to be prepared to walk away and that's that's this is the message you got to send to the other side. and it was a message that was understood. the talks culminated in the biggest advance in disarmament since the start of the cold war the strategic arms reduction treaty or start limited the number of delivery systems and almost have the number of nuclear warheads deployed by both sides. also in 1901 on march 31st the member states of the warsaw pact dissolve the alliance 36 years after it was founded soviet forces were subsequently withdrawn
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from the entire eastern bloc the collapse of the soviet union itself was now also well underway. the baltic republics had already declared independence in 1900 and in december 1 19019 other members also ceded from the union including russia the soviet union had been succeeded by the commonwealth of independent states the letter you sent gives you. get out of the. see through and see some solutions to. this a lot of. yeah begin to show you so you didn't. know it was too busy dealing there is a sense. on december 26th 1991. almost half a century after the allies had defeated and divided germany one of the victorious
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superpowers had itself become history. the soviet union had ceased to exist. and its demise marked the end of the cold war. i don't like the expression we won the cold war because the soviets did it to themselves it was a it was not a regime it was a region that could could compete over time it was not a sustainable system sustainable spiritually it's sustainable economically. and sustainable politically. that's what turned on the george bush sr that's what george bush sr had also said we have finally done but in moral terms as i would just as they have done the minute we were there they kept on repeating you've lost the cold war you'll no
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longer a major power of g.-d. so shazam and don't interfere your opinion doesn't interest us any move us here. communism in eastern europe had reached the end of the line. so surely people hoped in the early 1990 s. that would also mean the end of the cold war. with the superpowers began scrapping their tanks in a new giant leap for mankind. but 30 years on let's say rattling has resumed some peer a new cold war between the old photos. as both sides withdraw from old arms treaties. our relationship. has never been worse. than it is now. although germany at least has gone on to assume
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a new role in international affairs. because. the last time finally the communist east germany was pleading to 90. cents to move. the pundits on. it was a great opportunity good news to shoot up professional code in the soon to be
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determined. to. be the good news crime fighters are back africa's most successful radio drama series continues all of us odes are available online the course you can share and discuss on t w africa's facebook page and other social media platforms crime fighters tune in now. it was the 1st international tribunal in history. the nurnberg trials. 75 years ago high ranking officers of the nazi regime of georgia by the allied forces. the 1st criminals to be held accountable for their crimes. and as i said i found them on. getting rid of past few years right here. our 2 part series and the 3rd reich
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talk starts nov 12th on d w. w news live from the back on the campaign trail donald trump on fighting for. through it now they say on them you can feel i feel so powerful that i as he hits the battleground state of florida to say trump is now testing negative 19 on the project.


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