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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  December 3, 2020 9:30am-10:01am CET

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perhaps. there are just. there are many. make up your own mind. for minds. but you still think we are inferior why will the contradictory versions we are not saints but we definitely decent people is that you are also part of the plot just me or russia or whatever i say it doesn't matter to you you just don't listen less than 3 months ago alexei my bunny current figurehead of the russian opposition collapsed from apparent poisoning on a flight between siberia and moscow german doctors who treated him later said he
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ingested the nerve agent novacek the kremlin those denied any involvement accusing the west of mounting russophobia i guess this week for most go is richest love nikonov a member of president putin's party united russia and the lawmaker in the lower house of parliament the duma why is it that those who speak louder for the russian opposition run the risk of mortal danger. if you choose to have any kind of welcome to conflict zone. let's talk a bit we may 1st of all about the opposition figurehead alexy vile need who fell ill in organized on an internal russian flight germany which ended up treating him said it was beyond doubt he was poisoned with one of the novacek class of nerve
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agents developed in the soviet union the kremlin denies any role in this if it wasn't them who do you think it was. well many questions about that actually i don't think much about now wildly anyway. do you remember angela davis she was one of the leaders of the american communist party back in the old soviet days and she was the most important american in the soviet union since she was the head of the commerce party of course no one in the united states knew anything about angela davis or not much so in the valley is and angela davis. first place we have the russian electorate he's he sorry we go for we have our hours of explorations and counter accusations about what happened to him mr putin apparently or as for the accusations i have actually i have
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a few questions to the german side. question number one what do you mean by the recheck what i know from those guys who worked on this guess it is a binary gas yes it is composed of 2 components to liquids each of which is not poisonous to them of course if you drink a few leaders or one of those liquids you can get some stomachache this is a problem it becomes a poisonous nerve gas capable of killing hundreds of thousands of people when these 2 components are combined by an explosion in a bot. with an economic can we just stay with our what happened could we just stay with what happened because we received a but will during barras of explanations in counter accusations mr putin told the
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man you are micro apparently that never found they may have poisoned himself the spokesman dmitri prescott the president said he was working with the cia he didn't offer any proof on that and the head of your foreign intelligence service said again that inciting so called in direct information so western security services had discussed the issue of a sacrificial victim from among the leaders of russian opposition so implying that it was the west that tried to bump him off again no proof of no facts no evidence but why were the contradictory versions coming from the russian side. well we do not have any worship at this point 1st of all would like to know what kind of you know poisoning substance was there we want to give us a formula you know what it was because we just don't know what you're talking about 1st place 2nd 2nd question you know when this. was
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poisoned in souls very they pretended it's a very serious stuff you know they covered half of the city with ribbons they killed cattle scruple who was allegedly the most dangerous creature on earth they did a lot of noise about that when the vile me was brought into downtown berlin and the clinic. where no person was evacuated nobody so was he not dangerous or that was not navy chalk which is capable of killing hundreds and thousands of people so what happened why you are asking where are the 3 course of writing the wrong person or by have i have the 3rd question as well now while it is you know it was saved by the russian doctors and of course the doctors took all the samples now while his blood whatever liquid they could find in
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his body you know we have pretty good doctors predict that they were capable of saving there weren't any we have pretty good toxicologists we have pretty good specialists i'm nervous they can find anything in those substances in his blood this is for you to study it is here no was even interested in that so my feeling i don't there is no official worship of what happened in the world and you have it we don't have it because we don't have a case in order to start it is some legal investigation new to go to the court and present the evidence of an attempt on a person now but we just have all these different we just have we have we have earned that the only word and so we can bring. we don't have all the only thing he has recently court is that for our merkel said that he was that he was poisoned we don't have any evidence of that. russia's attorneys general's office
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made 5 requests to the to the german counterparts they got no request on the data just request that they have data from the military i do not expect german military to be too sovereign of course that he was poisoned so you're saying this to me it was this is all part of a dirty western conspiracy to blacken the name of russia or is it i don't know what it is just just ask questions for which i have no answers i mean said caleb ruff said we have every reason to believe that everything that happened to nadal in the as regards nerve agents may have happened in germany or on the plane which took him there why why should the west but why not why should the west bother to do that you haven't got any evidence to suggest the where i don't i don't know why well there were many provocations against russia recently but. actually we do we do not have
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the fact of poisoning here in russia he was we found no trick trace of that you know nobody nobody was poisoned in a plane which was flying in the hotel know where his samples of his blood absolutely clean so when he got to germany for some reason there were they found something. that means that something was not in russia maybe on the way maybe there i don't know why why were these crimes that the west is simply driven by russophobia why why should the west bother to try to blacken the of russia are you such an attractive magnet to the youth of the world these days that western governments fear your international popularity is that it these days. you know for beer is not something new it was not invented
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last week or last month actually in case of germany it started like 5 centuries ago. early in the 16th century can we just stay with the prize if you attempt can we just stay with the present. oh well we cannot stay with the present because we are living in a historic contests which is 5 at least 5 centuries rusa for beer in germany and in the west and so when it happens or something happens in russia there is of course an instinct to blame russia on anything russia has a presumption of guilt in the eyes of the sizable part of the western public and of course of all the west media it just just the case it has been 100 years ago 200 years ago 300 years ago even for hundreds of years ago when
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there was no media but there was no printed books and the russians russia itself is done and so now you know whatever i say whatever i say well. there is always some truth in propaganda otherwise it won't work. but as i look at the western propaganda that's becoming more and more substantive this there is no substance in it. of course russia is is not you know. we are not saints but we are definitely decent people for sure the west also has a sort of superiority complex for centuries you guys thought that we were inferior it was also manifested in many theories concepts in nazi ideology and many other things and it continues you still think we are inferior you know
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better what is good for us you say your soothsaying to say you don't listen eat any teachers you say you are decent people the pretty severe slam you say the pretty severe beating of peaceful demonstrators on the streets of moscow last summer some of the last year didn't help your reputation either did it was that really necessary where the march is such a threat to the state that people had to be beaten women men. well actually i don't remember people being beaten him here in moscow but i saw some pictures from the streets of berlin recently. some 10 days ago there were huge crowds and there was a real beating something you can never see during demonstrations of russia these were really tough last weekend we saw the pictures from the streets of paris
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oh come on this was a real bt for a whole year we see the pictures forest trees of portland oregon from washington d.c. from new york this is a really tough you know so long as you're on your list is in goes out of it all allocations. there fully arsenal that well lease is there police is always using the same methods but russian police is much more civilized than german french or american as i see it on television really really you're passing a lot of laws these days that make it harder for opposition figures to run in elections that was the cause of some of the demonstrations in moscow last year you prosecute plenty of people who demonstrate the deputy editor of commerce son said the other day if you're going to become an independent politician or if you decide to protest against something you will understand that it's impossible to do this
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legally why have you shrunk the space for people to protest or to make their demands in public why is this a sign of insecurity i'll buy that actually actually this year actually this year it's quite universal because of the covert 9000 there are some limitations on protests as for the consequences for the people protesting in russia they're not as severe as say in the united states or in germany now let's go back was the last you passed last year there's been a clear tightening of the space for free expression march last year what us there's been a clear marching of the space for free express. and i was saying in march last year 2 bills went through parliament providing for heavy fines for anyone blatantly disrespecting the your thirty's or spreading what the authorities deem to be fake news are you happy with that firm smack of government because
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a lot of high officials weren't happy were that the prosecutor general had reservations the ministry of justice ministry of communications were you happy that these bills went through. well i don't think that any regulations on demonstrations in russia are tougher than in your country 1st place. we study or all the international regulations all the laws passed on this substance. on that issue in every single country the russian is one of the mildest. first place 2nd what i do in the duma i represent the interests of my electorate i would never vote for a bill except in very rare instances which would not be supported by at least 3 fourths of my electorate my constituency. this these
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laws of course were very popular inside russia because it protected public safety. the freedom of one person well freedom of another person begins and for that the regulation of demonstration has been passed in every single country in russia this regulation is pretty modest that of your human rights conscious the head of your human rights council me carfare daughter of said that arresting people for disrespecting the earth origin is violated freedom of speech it's a big step backwards isn't it is not doing much for your party's approval rating according to the c.i. o.m. the state pollster your party is currently at just 31 percent approval so all the people you say are backing your laws don't think much of your party's performance these days do they. are speaking about the ratings of the parties ok
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35 percent of those who decided for them or for those for which party they're going to vote that means over 50 percent of of the electorate. and we have quite a structured electoral system with more than 50 percent supporting the united russia with like 15 to 20 percent supporting the communists the same for the nationalists like 10 percent for for the socialists and less than 10 percent for the liberals who are which are too liberal to unite if they lose the elections if they are not popular it's their fault they cannot unite you cannot provide a gender they cannot position themselves as a russian political force as no i cannot present himself as a russian politician he is much more popular in germany than he is he is in russia he is reading never exceeded 2 percent and i think whatever when israel
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can develop he will dominate the russian air as well as for 20 baron as violence as his rating is 20 percent at the moment not bad all we have is that of course of course but i don't know who can tell you. the there is no such independent pauli and cannot be you know my considering this is not in moscow it's in usually in orbit i never met a single person not a single person who would ever support nobody who would ever ask a question. i ask a question about him or the kind of question you ask because that is something of a non issue in the russian federation you ask the question which are of course part of the russian campaign for sure you support the politicians whom you like and who are nothing for russia she as i said is an angela davis for russia well i know the saying if you don't mind what i like else it's not has and hasn't been as for
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us it's not a question of whether and ask for the opinion of or of the few human rights whoever any person in russia you know they may have their own opinion they can express it freely as well as a as well as mr in there while they can express his opinion i only mention he does that present my meaning you mention has been around the again the un has repeatedly flagged up the incidents of violent crimes in russia targeting political opponents is the un also part of the plot to smear russia do you think. you know. politics is making b.p. difficult profession sometimes is dangerous we've got quite a few members of the duma killed yes. some of them were not opponents of the regime for at all you know that happens in america they killed a few presidents you know it happens yes we didn't but you know whatever
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happens in russia it is the government's fault. politicians get killed oh it's the government it's the russian government when you say how come. then on your side there is a cognitive dissonance you just cannot cannot understand you know in general sometimes you're just talking to the wall in the west so your own much misunderstood writer is not evil there is a cognitive dissonance and also russia is evil of course it is because for 5 centuries we were told that they use evil going to be not evil this only kind of is the need of the only and always as i have said we have a presumption of guilt which is which is in your eyes mr nikonov in august 28th in the un committee against torture in which you currently have a representative complained about what it called the lack of the fast effective investigation into the killings of anna politkovskaya and talia as the emir of
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unexpressed can turn that concern at reported cases of her recent abduction arbitrary detention torture ill treatment and killings of human rights defenders lawyers journalists and political opponents in russia. but you don't share the un's concern about that do you you think they just made it up do you think i asked one more smear of russia. well. i've heard of some instances which may be considered to be a wrong investigation but investigations are doing investigators are doing the best . of in any case whether it's quicker he doesn't matter who who gets murdered you know most of by the way most of the cases of political murders and russia have been investigated and. as you may know many people
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already are in jail in many cases including himself and others. so there are political killings all over the world you know some of them absolutely. the tourists like. for example. you remember this saudi journalist from from the washington police can we stay with russia can we stay with this is a really really bad or you know there are some some politicians are also we are living in the world you know where bad things are happening americans by the way killed over a 1000000 people in the rock over a 1000000 they killed 5000000 people when we don't try merica what america's they've accounted. for you know 100000 people in afghanistan hundreds and
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thousands of people millions of people mr nikonov do investigators cases yeah do you investigate their cases you know we cover their ass and we are some can quest all right and we ask the same questions of everybody and what about torture tortures what about tortures and guantanamo yes yes what about torture is another great mystery prosecutors people mr nikonov according to the u.n. russia has been spreading benty of fear in crimea since you annexed that in 2014 that report by the committee against torture in 2018 noted persistent human rights violations that including abductions arbitrary detentions enforced disappearances torture ill treatment extra judicial killings proud record or just one more slow on moscow's reputation. well 1st of all what do you mean by the united nations commits medication or chose to meet and organisation of what of my special
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our country again 93 countries. the decisions of this security council are the decisions of the united nations and that is what the united nations is about is the decisions of the security council and all the general assembly you signed or i would talk on the record on the rules it events a very very ends inside inside inside the united nations there are many organisations which are actually secretariat and western clubs close clubs composed of mostly western diplomats human rights activists and so on and so forth you have a representative on the norm or is a good man or no other myanmar is out of mind is all reports on this can you know we have this same reports on almost every country. we can present them you know and producing those reports is a profession for many many people are only abductions are treated tell us on the real it is a real it is torture ill treatment. well you know i don't know month amenities are
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for this appearance of people in ukraine for example russia itself soon as it was ability to rebel crimea for these things going on in crimea is that what all running i mean absolutely russia is absolutely responsible for the crime ear there is law and order there and there are no lot of warnings of the you are not the quality of your immediate games torture not according to the government are part of that means they are producing fake information as all or very often the case but again whatever i say it doesn't matter to you you just don't listen to me because that for you is a cognitive dissonance you are sure that is true you know but when i say that it is not true so how come there is a u.n. commission on torture which as a group of you know of whom and you know that you read and you visit and you've investigated all those allegations have you telling me it's not true. of course
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whatever allegation whatever crime is investigated in russia every instance so that unfortunately this does not happen in ukraine where many many people disappeared you know and no one ever cared about them no united nations commission. no c.n.n. no human rights commission of the council of europe whatever they were not interested in that but when they have a rumor of someone tortured in the near you know. that there is a big case in my mind it's a fake i don't know anything i have very well said many times i know what happened there there were really threats to the people before that but the situation in the crime year including the crimean tatars is much better than it used to be and we're not really not it we were a 100 times in these charges or in this public sphere and this is my was my
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opportunity to put them to you we have yahoos thank you thank you very much for being on the program and giving us your views.
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thomas it starts december 4th. this is the news live from berlin germany our national lockdown extended into 2021 german chancellor angela merkel says the infection right remains to high current restrictions will now stay in place until at least january 10th though they'll be loosened for christmas in many parts of the country. plus a diet warning for our planet that if they do use waging war or nature the zoo's
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suicidal nature always strikes. and leaves.


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