tv Kochen mit Martina Moritz Deutsche Welle April 10, 2021 10:30pm-11:01pm CEST
literature invites us to see people in particular that i like to see myself as the kids find strange grownup girls. my only objective america is to share work and find beautiful. to do the books on youtube. what. work or. trouble. on local machine if and even mention what was known as an. i mean maybe one day they will they will have their own preferences that we care about and they will be you know if they become like a new or new species. artificial
intelligence creates things we've never seen or heard before. like gustav mahler unfinished 10th symphony now completed in its entirety i am. the deep neural network news net has managed to complete what the composer couldn't ai is invading our lives and the arts. just how much is the subject of iraq one's research age rector of the max planck institute force human development in berlin he talks with us about ai and how to deal with intelligent machines. their head of their research center humans and machines why do you think it's important to study the behavior of machines because machines are in your own.
act or in our world you know this is the 1st time that we've created a tool that can make decisions on it's all. it's going to be driving cars it's going to be making decisions about who gets higher than $500.00 and it's going to help us create art and so on. so what would you say are the possible scenarios we're looking at in the near future the problem with machine learning is that it might be learned harmful behavior is on its own we need to understand that we're dealing with a new kind of. entity that may be a little bit after the interval. like in a space odyssey doors oh. i'm sorry. i'm afraid i can't do that computer how is an intelligent beast but with an emphasis on beast think
you know what the problem is just as well as right this mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize. the intractable house doesn't think much of people logically speaking there's no reason to since they're so liable to breaking down. in alien the space ships computer mother acts in a similar why can't they. just drop it like. turning the wrath of salt human survive a cigar in a way that is ripley. in films intelligent machines usually run amok a few strive to be human sometimes even more humane than never all models say that the robot in steven spielberg's ai even wants to build real relationships. but is david as harmless as he looks. sort of official.
of course it is in blade runner replicants go rogue to escape their fights a slave laborers so the ng to hide their true identities it seems you feel our work is not of benefit to the public. slingers going to murder me in my street. in one of the red comedies about ai the robot may not look human but he's a real body. and. if you ever had a dream you know that you were so sure it was real. in the matrix trilogy i control an entire parallel universe one in which people are clearly not welcome. shouldn't be changing. series this planet. into pure.
the terminator is sent back from the future to correct the course of history he's a killing machine guided by an ai because humans could endanger robots in the future they're deemed expendable. but later it's machines against machines and everything ends in chaos yet in most cinematic confrontations with the humans who come out on top. that's probably because for now people are still watching the scripts. trust me causes a lot of anxiety and fear within society how can we deal with this and do you think that these concerns are valid i think people are afraid to weigh our today because we don't understand this thing so if i is not as powerful as hollywood depicts how powerful is it you know where is it being used what kinds of mistakes does it make
is it affecting me as in affecting my family or does it make us strictly better off or sometimes worse off and i think well when you don't understand something that is gaining more and more power over you then. i think it's your right to be concerned what about the air i self would you describe that more as a simple tool or could you see it also being a creative genius we did a study on on how people perceive they are and we found that also the way you speak about the ai can shape public perception so for example the 1st ai generated art in a high profile auction was sold for something you know just under half a $1000000.00 if you use the language of agency to describe the ai the artist gets like tens of thousands of dollars less but in people's minds but when you ask them
how much money do you think that part of the city versus the programmer and so on so that really translates to real money. and the same thing goes for when something goes wrong so we want to stimulate a discussion about language around ai because this language has real consequences on. blame and praise on benefits and on costs for real humans. behind the old walls of this 16th century manage just outside london their lives a robot that draws. this machine with a human face is named. she's a robot with the mannerisms of a real artist. what her current. work like.
their. age or has been drawing and painting since 2019 last year her work sold out as an exhibition at oxford university and it's estimated that collectors have paid more than $1000000.00 pounds for where x. . gallery owner aiden miller came up with the idea to create a down. day that was used. during a poetry oh the earth is pretty cold. together with a team of computer scientists robotics experts and designers millar developed in his own words the world's 1st robot artist programmed for creativity. aged draws with chalk and paints for the critic how it works make her own a food chain. to uncanny to look ahead to have this interaction with a with
a normal human in the way that we can. it's quite a a month early in feeling but she would be surprised how quickly you feel very relaxed with with having a robot in your life. as a call to explore the potential of artificial intelligence before it's too late. but is this real arts or is it just a grand technical achievement a.j. raises the question whether human artists will be competing against robots in the future. we've heard. from different artists thinking oh my goodness what does that mean for my own abilities that chauffeur we very much believe the wiser. within the world is very much similar to the rise of the camera in the 18 fifty's and sixty's. people were very threatened by this camera that it was the end of
painting the idea that one day robots might replace humans is unthinkable for an artist marcus lee to pets he's one of the most influential german contemporary painters sees artists robots like ada is no more than an attempt to attack the divine spark of human genius one of the lost mysteries of our enlightened and mechanized world. the machine in the robot is an abomination in machine to machine start to think i'd say it's an outrage they become the enemy. this enemy relies on human input data templates and information that robots like a program to process and they continue to get better with this processing on a technical level. yet the machine understands neither a painter is creative urges nor an artist's obsession. that's why robots that paint and draw always be condemned to merely imitate.
machines can only do what humans do when we don't need machines or machines would need to do something that humans can't. perhaps true mechanical creativity is at its best when it supports human roles and algorithms can help or act as assistance the british artist an original dares to create a symbiosis of both worlds real life and the world of technology in her art she creates virtual flowers through machine learning is only able to see the results of her work when the computer has finished processing. it's like when you catch a glimpse of yourself in america for you realize it's year and you kind of you kind of recognize yourself but you also don't so it's this weird uncanny kind of kind of sensation. in her video installation most a virus she lets the computer come up with an endless sequence of chewed it pitches
these 2 loops don't exist in this way they're based on tens of thousands of images of real flowers that on a regular photographed categorized and then handed over to her ai helper. it's always surprising and it's always something that is you know it's like a wild or fria version of something that you might create but you could never get there without this help. every single judit was a unique electronic specimen and attributes to the dutch masters and their 17th century still life paintings the technical possibilities and now an a red letter paint such a classic motif. in a completely new guys not with a brush or on a canvas but through artistic artificial intelligence. how original and better are ai generated creations i would say the majority of ai
generated creations today are not as original as you might think and the reason is they rely on machine learning and machine learning is a technique that. for the most part learns from examples so it is as original as all of this combined art that it's all before i think with the part of machine creativity that's more original that's more risky that's more exploratory where the machine is creating completely new imagination which i think is much less developed today but that part could really change what it means to create art. music composed by river scape or to put it more precisely the rivers many bends analyzed and transposed into notes the rhythm is set by the forces of nature.
and their flows when the river has lots of bends or has a more complex visual structure than the musical structure is also more complex and when the course of the river changes then you also hear that as acoustic feedback as a kind of live reinterpretation of based on the data acquired by the. 'd algorithms are fed with countless examples which teach the ai what turned sounds into music it can then suggest what theme the melody could embark on next. music made mathematically is it creative is it art. of the moment it's another approach. that's the way you need to imagine it and i'm going to i belong to a whole generation of new composers and also artists who have grown up with technology and off with algorithmic methods. toward and what ai has now opened up
for machine learning to put it more precisely is a kind of sparring partner this barings partner. partner that helps in the composition process and reacts to suggestions. for 9 years musician ali nick ryan has been developing a program to write sophisticated compositions was this written by a man or a machine it's impossible to tell. he's big breakthrough came with a program. which can compose pieces in the style of everything from mozart to. listen to a piece of music that is composed by an ai since it is able to examine responses because of exactly not isis and has no understanding of our emotions. classical pianist glenn gould performances were emotional and unconventional though he died
in 1902 his style is still alive and well. thanks to ai. ok so what we're doing is we're analyzing going gods are the recordings to see out here interpret a given piece of music and try to change to an ai system so that i could play an expressive style of. bringing going all back to life. it's as if ghost is sitting at the piano those who knew him a star. christian rosa doesn't just want to imitate human creations he wants to explore unknown to mentions through his art with the help from ai he's collected some other world the
signals. or this one become very rich as we take this great unknown outer space and we try to capture radio signals from space and then we have our manmade scan it to look for patterns which we wouldn't be able to find on our own fin transcriptions from space interpreted by using familiar harmonies it's a bit dark a bit bizarre somehow sublime. when you kind of you enter a question and get a reply you never would have anticipated it's a cute that can move things forward in the composition or creative work which allows it to take
a turn you simply couldn't predict them but this that's quite exciting that's the such fun. machines are becoming increasingly able to adapt learn and create original unpredictable outputs how would you say this mpeg society today ai looks like this magical black box that is new things that we've never seen before and also maybe we we ascribe too much power to these things that are influencing us as well so now we just think of all these algorithms that are manipulating us in so many ways and the truth is we don't really know the extent to which this many pollution. works we don't have like a very solid scientific basis about how much really how much power these things have over us what do you think the top dangers are of enter creating ai entire lives having a small group of people have more not political power over
a i. so if you think of today we have very few companies that have disproportionate power over our data if this data is fed to ai's that can then have a say or can make decisions that impact us and society as a whole then we're in trouble because then we're in a tyrannical situation and i think that's a problem that we don't have really transparency about which data can be owned by whom can be used by whom to what end and this is not always part of. a clear transparent discussion what role do you think art can play in those debates i think are going to be really powerful because it can help us imagine. both the good and the bad as artists can translate. the technology and the unknown into something that our imagination can can deal with and that we can.
connect with on an emotional level and intellectual and so artists have i think a great role to play. an art act as a mediator between the real world and digital reality it's as if we're living in 2 worlds at the same time. in one that is visible in which we can take a train go shopping meet other people. and another in which we are monitored and algorithms make decisions for us. artificial intelligence systems collect data and arrange the world who profits who loses out. imagine you're walking down a street and if you're an older woman you know you only see certain stores and certain options businesses but if you're a younger man you see lots and you see
a totally different street and that's very much what i was you know having nightmares about you know the street that i would walk down as a black woman in germany might be entirely different than the street that you know friends family members are able to walk down because they're male because why because they're not. what can our do to fight discrimination what role can it play just out i think that has a great strength it can make things accessible i think that it's extremely important because our society is so influenced by artificial intelligence now people are being marginalized by these technologies and we have to speak about it. dani and the kima stuff are 2 researchers and artists based in. berlin who are exploring the question of why the world remains so one just although there is so
much artificial intelligence. here there in berlin's future in a space where the future of the planet and humanity is explored this is a world increasingly dominated by machines and algorithms that are discriminatory. dani says that ai is intertwined with racism and sexism. that after the data that the systems used from the past said they're actually quite conservative systems in a sense. when they're used to predict to recommend. to underscore what to expect in the future it's very unrealistic to expect them to be more egalitarian or fair or anything different than the data that it's using as a basis i have. fashion her some time with no one inside. joy ball mind is
a gun in american computer scientist and artist she started fighting bias in algorithms after realizing that ai did not recognize her face a much she wore a white mask. the more she delved into the issue the more she understood that it was a structural problem ai systems do not work with black people particularly black women . so joy when these gender shapes project is really how i started to understand that this is a whole body of research that's been done if you're not convinced that you have a representative dataset of the various possibilities for diversity in the world then you're probably not going to have a very fair or a very expansive assessment by an algorithm of who is. legitimate person who is a person at all who is considered an individual who has access to social participation who has positions of power for ai systems fed with data from the past
the answer is often white men some of them cannot even attribute the right sex to women shallow bamma i know that and i know great to wear her crown of history her crown seems amiss for systems i'm sure of her hair a way to go before a toupee maybe not are there no words for our brains that are lots there's a relaxed hair and so anything can be done 1st lady. even birthdays well now some algorithms falter and ways and then that's gone when they're not harmed then i think that what artists an artistic creators can do is help us to see and feel what the experience of being marginalized looks like and to help us understand before we get so far that we discover this is half. to us. what it is that we're doing by excluding certain people by creating artificial barriers that are not mediated by
human contact and some video artists have started using ai and virtual reality themselves to offer a response the neuroscientist ashley baucus clark has created an installation with hyphen labs which puts users in the body of a black woman at a hair salon. and these are. many of these projects are about taking back the power of content protection showing everything from our perspective. what do we really associate with ai ashley and typhon labs is showing that vision of a future a very community based future. a future without discrimination and stereotypes can artificial intelligence help to make the world a better place. i don't think that we should be working to ai to make the world together tarion this is something for humans. a i might be exacerbating some of the
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