a listen carefully. don't know how you miss. to be a good. ah feel the magic discover the world around you. subscribe to d w documentary on youtube. i don't have anything to hide. knew absolutely nothing about what was going on january 6 with regard to the protesters that had a breach on capitol hill. did you know in advance of january the 6th? just how bad it was going to be? no, not at all in america. scores of donald trump's associates, pos been present,

had been subpoenaed by the congressional committee, investigating the january 6th attack on the capital. my guest is one of them, jason. mila was a senior adviser to the trump campaign, and remains close to the former president. the joints me from new york. what have the months since the attack revealed about trumps roll in it? and his hold over the republican party. jacob miller, welcome to conflict zone. could be with you more than a 150 people have so far been interviewed by the house committee investigating the events of january, the 6 you've been summoned to appear for a deposition on december. the 10th, i believe. will you be going on? will you cooperate? with the committee? well, at the moment my attorney is in contact with the council and were working something

out there. a few details need to be addressed, but to be very direct with folks. i don't have anything to hide. you absolutely nothing about what was going on january 6 with regard to the protesters of the breach on capitol hill. and quite frankly, i think the activity that we saw that day was terrible. and i would also say that it's notable that of the people, the notable people within president trump's orbits who have been subpoenaed. and so i name for example steve band and or mark meadows or cash patel or even myself. none of these folks, including myself, have been questioned by the f, b i or the d o j, or any sort of law enforcement from foresman because simply, we had nothing to do with those activities. this is clearly a political exercise from the democrats. and again, i don't have anything to hide, so i have no problem going calling about for trying to make a political story out of this. you say it's a political exercise. so the american people have a right to find out as much as possible about what led to the january 6 attack. and though they have a right to expect cooperation from those who may have relevant information. well,

i think that you also have to define who is the entity that should be doing that. so when you talk about say, law enforcement, f, b, i the d o j. those are the appropriate avenues for finding out if there was, for example, criminal conduct conducted by somebody. but when it comes to effectively just generating a press release and trying to distract away from the failing policies of joe biden and the democrats on capitol hill. that's what we're seeing from congress. i think there are also some very clear concerns with regard to executive privilege. this is the 1st time in us history. there. a sitting president has rejected the executive privilege of a previous president. and quite frankly, i think that sets a dangerous precedent. and so those conversations with private conversations, the say a president nighted state has with his staff or with other various people. think about the pandora's box. this is going to open, not just for joe biden, when he's done, and the railroad train that's going to be coming to him with regard to hunter biden . frank and james, as lobbyist, brothers. okay. okay, well we're getting

a little bit off the top of the committee quotes, public reports that you took part in a meeting the day before the attack with donald trump lawyer, rudy giuliani and steve bannon, and that you discussed overturning the results of last year's presidential election is that true? not worth regard to january. 5th. that was in the barb costa book. and so people know bob cost as a fake news journalist. he's not a real journalist. the only reason i would like i, we didn't happen and you weren't with them. you didn't, didn't hold on just one moment, you make it clear. we blackballed. bob costa would not allow president trump to sit down for an interview with him. so that's why bob costed drummed it up. so he's complete fake news. now, i did, i visit the willard one time back in december. yes. that was the case by drop by to chat with mer juliani. but i never participating in some sort of war room or some kind of planning about january 6 or any protests. in fact, on january 6th,

i was at home sitting on my couch, eating door dash, watching everything on tv along with many other people around the country. okay. did you know in advance of january the 6 just how bad it was going to be? no, not at all. then if he even had the slightest inkling of something like that, then obviously i would have said something. in fact, i don't know. even of anybody who had any idea of that artist had the day before, hold on hell. the bottom of it all hell was going to break loose. he said that on january the 5th, so he seems to have known and seem content i would push back. and i'd say that i think you're taking a completely erroneous angle on that. what mr. banner was referring to was when the actual electoral ballots were presented in front of vice president pants. and then there would be the opportunity to split into the respective chambers to go into the counting and do the skills we do the debating over the merits and the accuracy of each respective state. and there be a chance to say, present evidence whether be of election fraud or abuse, or waste or other things they had been detected. that's very clearly what steve was

referring to is steve, somebody who's from a multi genera generational line of people who served in the military who fought for the united states who love their country. and again, if someone who say that i was speaking with president trump on a daily basis during this stretch, the only thing that we were ever talking about is effectively what would happen with the vice president pence actually sat up there and started counting those ballots. and so there was never any conversation about what turned into some of the lawlessness that we saw. the capital be very clear, as i've said before, that's not something that we never put up with. or you'd have to be really sick in the head to think that in some way was furthering the make america great again cause which again as horrified by what i saw. it was tragic, but i'd obviously no knowledge or involvement was anything that happened on that day. ok, but steve band did say 2 days before the 6 that jump supporters would impose their will on congress. is that how some people in your body think

a democracy should work, get them up together, impose your will, through violence on americans elected representatives. so i think it's a good thing. you got to take a step back here and look at the fact that when you hear steve man and talking about action, action action, when someone like steve, who's a patriot, also affectionately referred to him as a honey badger. someone who dives in and doesn't quit. steve very much refers to things such as calling offices, such as peaceful protests, such as sending emails, such as making people's opinions, heard whether be on social media or is we saw in the very be positive crowd that was down on the lips prior to the events that we saw at the capital. i know steve very closely, he would never for one second put up with any of the nonsense that we saw on capitol hill that day with regard to the people who are causing wallace acts. and so very clearly when you hear, for example, when steve talks about the american people are gonna force there will be heard. he

also says use the same type rhetoric when he says, go to your local precinct committee and register to be a precinct captain. so he was that type of language when he talks about civic activism, which is what we should all want. ok on. on january the 6th, the day of the violence you apparently spoke twice to president trump by phone. is that right? yes, it just so people know, just to kind of slow back i've spoken with the number of the, the post presidency bucks. in fact, all the information that you're citing with the exception of the loser fake news journalists. bob costa, are largely coming from books. i sat down and proactively told, here's what happened. and so on january 6 i spoke with president trump access like them more than twice that day when we spoke that morning just kind of goes to the mindset of where things were. we were talking about the election results from the previous night in georgia where republicans lost both of those 2 senate seats. so we were talking about that. and then also the president asked a question if i had heard anything with regard to say,

crowd size or other activities with regard to the, the peaceful protest. it was happening down on the ellipse where he was going to be speaking. and then i was a violent i started before the violence started. well before, yes. obviously those were, those are 2 completely separate different things. the now there are no such a violence or hold on. let me ask me a question that you got. let me finish and so and then i spoke with the president the night of the 6 as i worked with him to construct the statement to make clear that that now that joe biden was the president, that we had to move in a, in orderly fashion, to make sure that the transition of power was upheld. and so i spoke of the present multiple times that day did not speak with them during the middle of the day now, but i quite frankly take great pride in the fact that i worked with a president to make clear that it was that was the final challenge once we got through the electoral ballots being counted, that's the official marking within our legal code. as far as when that transition of power is in formerly decided. and so i think for as a matter of fact that i was

a pretty good actor on january 6th and i helped move the country in a positive direction. ok, you will coded a pretty dark day in america's history, january the 6th. do you think tom should have apologized for his role in the events? after all, he was the one who told the crowd to march to the capital to pressure congress to overturn the election. he fired them up, telling them that the electron was stolen and they needed to fight get smart republicans fight. he said, no incitement to violence, there is lawyer, rudy giuliani told the crowd. let's have trial by combat, no incitement to violence there either. now if i got to push back again here, and if you're being completely forthcoming, you'd also add that president. trump also said that we need to make our opinions or peacefully, and also patriotically and things that didn't plan for anything as usual that you can't, you can't play, complete, selective can't be complete. like if you are going to go and refer to something the

present said, you also have to give the full picture. i don't think that's particularly fair. but now to go back to your initial question, i don't think president trump has anything that he needs to apologize for. he made it very clear peacefully and patriotically. and because president trump loves his country and he absolutely bores violence of any way. and if we've probably spent upwards of $40000000.00 in the summer of 2020 on television ads, proclaiming that the republican party and president trump are the party of law and order. we rejected the violence we saw for democrats and the black lives matter movement and all of the things that the mainstream media coddled and basically encouraged as they sat there and put the cameras in front of them. i think it's really despicable that the mainstream media further the violence we saw in the summer of 2020. i think that i stand for it's not something president trump stands for. and neither he nor myself, nor anyone that i know has anything to apologize for. well, you say that the trump still approves of the crowd chanting hang mike pence,

it's common sense. is it fitting for a former president to encourage vigilante style the style thuggery like that? i mean, look quickly on. a mob was chanting its desire to go and kill the vice president because he wouldn't overturn the election a hangman's noose was actually set up on capitol hill. here's. here's one of the thing. i think it's just to be respectfully blunt here. i think it's a little bit disingenuous to throw out some of the quotes when i give the, the context what's going on and to proclaim that something is fact when it's being repeated 2nd or 3rd hand. so give you a case in point the phrase or the quote you're referring to is something that was put out in the john carl book just a couple of days ago. and back this spring, i was actually sitting about 2 feet from john carl in about 4 feet from president trump as the interview was taking place. and president trump was asked the question about some of the chance that were going on. and president trump was talking about

how people were very frustrated, very upset, and then they moved on to another question very quickly and no point in present. trump say that that he can don't that such activity or that that was language that he would use. of course, present trump doesn't, but he never condemned him does so here's, here's the thing. slow down for a moment. here's the thing you weren't sitting in the room i was and the reporter book author quickly went on to another question before president trump before they could even flash that out. so it was a very much a bam, bam. let's move on to the next thing. and they did, and so there was, there wasn't even an opportunity for president trump to go and to go and have some big extended conversation on it. and i think the other thing that's, that's really important for you to realize is that these, all of these books are designed to sell books. that's the whole point, their self fulfilling self filling prophecies where they go, they drum up controversy and then they go and try to sell it. they try to get folks like yourself to june it up. in fact,

the only thing i think the authors would be upset about is that you're not named checking, whether it's the, the john carl or the loser, bob costa, or some of these other folks and look, there are some good books to be honest with you that that i think did a pretty good job of capturing what happened on january 6. i think that the the phil rucker and ashley parker and carolyn in the book i think got pretty close to the pin on many of their details. not all, there are some, maybe i would and stuff and doesn't know these books. you're satisfied that trump has nothing to apologize for. lindsey graham respected republic consented to a friend of john said on january the 7th, trump was definitely to blame for what happened on capitol hill when it comes to accountability. he said the president needs to understand his actions were the problem, not the solution joe biden, and comma la harris lawfully elected january 6th. he said, was a self inflicted wounds. you have no sympathy with that view. no, because in fact a lindsey graham is since backtrack that as well,

and he's off playing golf for the president all the time. the thing about lindsey graham is he likes to offer up some, some hot takes every now and then buddy lindsey graham also changes his position about his office there, days ending and why. and so linda grammar is definitely walk and not the only one. i say he's not the only one who does that, but the but you but you brought up senator graham and i'm just letting people know that since then if he was so horrified or if he thought that that was the case. why is he played golf with the present half dozen times since january 6? and what is he remain a close ally and someone who said that he thinks present trump should in fact running in in 2024. so i think that it's when, when you were talking about a heated, in very pointed not just a political debate because january 6th was, was very serious. and i do think that it, that words additional conversation. but i do think that it's critical. and i think that you have a responsibility to make sure that you're presenting the full picture of what people said to your audience, so they understand. so let take like

a lindsey graham. ok, well, you know, you're giving us your certainly giving us a different take. if you like very mind what lindsey graham and others have said, patch trump should be blamed as much for his inaction on january. the 6th is anything else. when the violence began, he apparently sat for some considerable time watching it on television. this was america's commander. in chief doing nothing saying nothing, ignoring for a long time, even please from his own family to call off the mob. you think that's except the ball? i think the president trump, i said this probably before. in fact, we're given a full and accurate description of some of the books have even said that to some of the book authors. but president trump has, i think with raj henry 6 i think could have said something sooner. absolutely, but i also, at the same time, don't think that even if you had said something a little bit sooner, fundamentally, it would have changed what happened on that day, and i'm gonna tell you why. as we've seen, the video we've seen these images is that people are whether they're storming

barricades or climbing up walls or are doing different things. folks are not sitting there with smartphones and he can watch exactly what's going on. there certainly weren't jumbotron screens with cnn or fox news, or m s d n c, or any other outlets that were up there to where people would have seen his comments. i fundamentally don't think that would change things, but i agree and even even said publicly that i wish they had said something more declarative early. and again, going to the point of that evening then for january 6. that's why i'm proud of my role to make sure that we are strong, staving those, put together that make clear that there can be an orderly transition of power because that's where we needed to, to move to things. and then obviously in the aftermath of january 6 where we saw president trump effectively lose his 1st amendment rights, that's part of the reason why we went and launch, get her to make sure that there is a free speech platform. so that just because one side of a political aisle, the might disagree with or dislike one, certain group of political thought,

whether to the united states or quite frankly, in the country around the world, that there's always going to be that safe space for free. well, let's talk about social media because that's perhaps the biggest political battle ground these days, and trump lost the powerful megaphone when he got kicked off twitter, youtube, and facebook after jeremy 6 at the time. you call that disgusting. what was so disgusting? these are private media companies. they can allow, disallow any one they want on their platform that publishes, that's what publishes do, isn't. ah, so there you go, i just busted you big time. this is the, this is the difference between a publisher and a platform. so i'm very, very glad that you brought this up. so a publisher is something like the failing new york times, or an amazon washington post, or even papers they like, like the wall street journal or the new york post. that is a publisher. they are responsible for every single word, every single sound that comes from their respective outlets. they have opinion,

so they are, they can be held liable. they're slander, they're all sorts of things that they're in one category. a platform going back to the 1900 ninety's when these rules were established. and there's a thing in our us code called section 23, where they said that if you're a platform essentially back then it was about blogs that you would not be held liable for the opinions other people are posting up on your site. and so here's where the, the conundrum is, where i think there needs to be, excuse me, specific reform with regard to section 230 is the fact that you can't hide behind the platform shield section 230, which is something that twitter, facebook, or even quite frankly, getter, it's something that we obviously have the the, the shield from as well. you have to have really hold on, hold on, don't you, you have rules, although hold on, but you can cut me off in this critical point cuz you got it wrong. and you need to be called out on this loop so that a publisher is something that pushes their own opinion. a platform is not supposed to exercise political discrimination. so here in lies the rub. section 230,

the current shield needs to be reform so that there can't be, as i referred to, the disgusting erosion of 1st amendment rights where people can be a publisher within hide behind a platform shield. now with regard together, we do have terms of service. we have what i referred to as a smart and robust moderation platform. and quite frankly, i think this is something that sets us apart from many of the other platforms that are out there. so we make sure that we don't allow hate speech. we don't allow religious or racial epithets any of that on our platform, but we also make sure that we're always going to defend political free speech. yeah, but because we've got to hold on, but this is not good. i didn't do a lot of space on this when the fact is that to platforms, as you go like twitter, trump cross the line, they saw him talking about the mob that attacked the capital as great patriots and decided that he was glorifying violence. so they said no to the great man,

so what it pulled out, survive in freedom. this is what people do in free society. they stand up to that politicians and they say, no, i thought you like things like that. but here's the thing, you're, you got your fax wrong again, that's not the reason why president trump was kicked off a twitter. the reason why president trump was kicked off a twitter ultimately is because he said he wouldn't go to joe biden to non duration . and which, by the way, i don't think joe biden wanted him there, i'll tell you as an advisor or president trump, i said that he shouldn't go as it would just end up being a bigger distraction than what was needed at the time. especially on the, the hill to january 2nd and so that, but that see, that's my point there is that you have a platform supposedly a platform to really publisher is they exercise political discrimination like twitter de kicked him off. not because january 2nd, but because he supposedly that it was so horrific that he said he wouldn't go to joe biden, agression. but let's, let's take a step back for a moment. you are right, there are private companies. they can ultimately decide what they're doing. my point that i'm saying, and again, this is one or 2 things we do the same time,

is it? if you want to exercise political discrimination, then you shouldn't get the section to 30 shield to prevent you from being classified as a publisher. that's a critical point. ok, do you believe trump will run again? you do, don't you? and if he does, can america afford to deal with a 2nd claim? false claim that he won the election more, which one's more defeat more ruined lives as a result of him running and losing again, kind of what i would tell you that i don't think i don't think america can afford to not have president trump come back and i'll point to some very specific examples i point to the hyper inflation that hitting american families really hard right now . i would also point to the increased gas prices. i would talk what the, the shipping crisis, where over a 100 ships are camped off the coast of california. and joe biden is completely and up to dealing with it. i'd say joe biden is refused to stand up to china in china's 9 dash line. now effectively extends to honolulu, if not the west coast,

we see the testing of ballistic missiles. i'd say his handling and afghan to stand where 13 service men and women were killed was absolute heretic. if we had the votes there, i'd say that he should be in peach simply because of that. all the effort progress made him with abraham records has been ripped up and torn in the air as nobody respects anything. the joe biden does. and last but not least, the crisis of the southern border, which we are actually moving to record setting lows and go to the right direction. joe biden reversed the, remain in mexico policy catch and release all of these things. so he literally created that crisis, american needs president, donald trump, back in office. that's really the polarized ation that he's brought to politics, you know, the hatred that exists between the democrats and republicans to a degree that some people hadn't seen in our lifetimes. obviously, i just read your viewpoint, but i think this is a debate worth having for the simple fact that america is even more polarized now than it was when president trump was an office. and that's because joe biden has

been such a global disaster. and again, i think global disaster because everything that the us be in the world superpowers how these ramifications all around the world. and the country continues to become more polarized because we have such a weak leadership in the white house. the media did the american people real disservice in 2020. when they said the, all we had to do is get rid of orange man, get rid of orange bad bad. get rid of the mean tweets. let's go back to our dainty p rooms and if we just had civility with someone like sleepy joe biden, that things will be back to normal and hunky dory, and rainbows and puppies. but in reality is i referenced the hyper inflation, the immigration crises in aggressive china. even russia is getting right here. me. now, believe me later, it's only a matter of days until russia just takes over ukraine and just like, go back to the obama by the ministration joe biden will do. nothing about your american america was better off when some was green, lighting, and applauding on the death spots and dictators around the world. from came john to

she jin, paying to vladimir putin with whom he seems so struck up a particular friendship at the same time as potent was hacking into america's elections. and, and private email accounts of people in politics. you think america was better off of that. so i would disagree with your description of the trump administration. i would say that america was a 1000 trillion times better off under president trump. in fact, if you name check out some of those leaders that you name check, we actually had a stretch of very good piece with north korea because president trump threatened to drop fire and ferry on kim jungle. and if he didn't knock it off, and guess what? him, john going knocked it off with regard to she president, trump installed the toughest trade tariffs in our nation's history, with specifically, with regard to china and actually started to bring back in onshore american

manufacturing jobs. once again, started that process going, and even with regard to russia, there's been no present that stood up to, to put into russia in the way the president. certainly not, certainly not joe biden. a job by ok. thanks mila. we have to stop that. we run out of time. thanks very much indeed for being on call. thank you for having me. i appreciate it. thank you. thank you. ah ah ah, with

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