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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  September 1, 2022 2:30am-3:01am CEST

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i think is everything challenging. so some are big. i'm listening. so much different culture between here and there. so challenging for everything. ah, to some of this i think it was worth it for me to come to germany. i shut my got my license to work as a swimming instructor in dish. and now i teach children 2 adults to swim. ah, what's your story? take part. share it on info, migrants dot net ah, with. as russian forces advanced in the east of ukraine, keith is warning allies. it's massively out gun. this week, a senior adviser to president the landscape that western support wasn't enough to combat russia's fire power. my guest this week from poland, his rabbit sikowski, who served as both foreign and defense minister, and is now
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a member of the european parliament. he thinks those pressing for a quick c spy a wrong that would be better to, to defeat russia in the, in don. both are also better for russia. remember, you know, as well as i do, that in russia, revolution or reform usually happen after a long war. but as nato already given way to nuclear blackmail from the kremlin, should be you finally set up an army worthy of the name. and those more european leaders plan to visit here, does the west actually have a plan for how this war might end? all that and more uncomfortable for robert gorski, welcome to complex zone. hello. an urgent cry for help this week from the ukrainians. they say they're hugely outgunned by moscow and president landscape
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advisor mckayla padaya once arms and answers. if you think we should lose, he said, just tell us directly. we want you to lose them. will understand why you give us weapons at this level. this is a very loud alarm. bell ringing and key is made to going to stand by and let you go under. these are decisions by member states of nato. i was just in washington talk to high ranking people at the pentagon, and they are convinced that the american pipeline is working and the deliveries will make it to the front line in the next few weeks. but these are some new items of equipment, soldiers and training. remember the united states with past the bill in congress, authorizing $40000000000.00 for ukraine, half of it for arm, that's a multiple of the ukranian defense budget, let alone it's procurement budget. poland is also rallying round countries in
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ukraine region per capita. contribute it contribute, contributing a great deal. but, but of course, russia has depth. russia is a much bigger country than ukraine. ukraine is out gum, but at the moment, according to the ukrainians, russia is firing around $70000.00 projectiles a day of their forces. that's about 10 times the number the ukraine can muster. how can anyone expect ukraine not to buckle and this kind of onslaught? the count can be we always knew that russia would have a new miracle and, and mass quality, quantitative superiority. but remember, the ukrainians are receiving technical intelligence from the americans live, which means that they know exactly where the russians are and,
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and partly what they in 10 at which is a huge force multiplier. if frankly, i was expecting the russians to win the invasion and for the ukrainians to prevent when the great war ukrainians have exceeded my expectations. but of course, from that point of view, it must be terrible. so yes, we should all, we shall, we should do what we can to, to help defend this democracy that has not given any provocation from an invasion, which according to proven putin, has the intention of exterminating ukraine as a state of the culture. and i just hope that president, sorry, chancellor of germany, president macro and prime minister druggie. i'm not going to keep empty handed. i guess my question is the landscape going to get an honest answer from the alliance?
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i asked because you got to visit last week from britain's defense secretary ben wallace, who told him, i think we can push russia out of don't bass. is that really an honest assessment? i hope so. ben wallace is the author of possibly the best rebuttal of b, approaching essay from july last year in which he makes stop. all the mis so far is so good idea. ology to claim that ukraine was not a real country. so he's the man of great abilities and i'm told he wretched himself . i doubt he is. he's, he's just speaking to the wind. so if you're saying this, i hope he's right. but given the situation on the ground at the moment, you see any way that russia is going to allow itself to get pushed out of the dunbar after all,
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they've been there in one form or another fermenting of war for the last 8 years. haven't by yes, but not in the same places there where the line of contact further to the rece. but remember the very limited gains that they've made in the don bus have been purchased at a huge expense in math, rio, and blood. so the ukrainians are fighting a very intelligent war. they're not giving the russians a set battle which they might lose, but just imposing a huge cost on them. as you know, if the ukrainian estimates the russian losses anywhere near correct, you know, they're claiming $32000.00 russian dead. let's say that that's exaggerated by a 3rd. that's still double the number of soldiers killed in ukraine in 3 months. then the, the entire soviet union lost in 10 years of its war and i've got this huge losses,
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particularly when you take into account the fact that for every dead soldier, there are usually 2 or 3 that i wounded. but the message that is coming out of key as now is, is of a pretty dire situation, isn't it? you know, i wonder what all these fine words that ukraine has received. we've got your back, we're not going to let you lose. we stand shoulder to shoulder. what are those fine woods worth when nato is in effect, half sitting on the fence, watching large pots of ukraine being shell to pieces. tim, that's a great question, and i'm glad you asking me this question on the chevy lab. but i think i should ask this question to yes, and if he came on the program we suddenly what, but what, what it, what is your answer? i did, it should do what it said. it would do, which is through your grade. is everybody doing what they say they were going to do?
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isn't that the case, the what holding nato back from giving you creating the 5 par at needs? and from confronting russia directly is basically putins. nuclear blackmail is one of the most consequential aspects of this war that the west has already given. in to that blackmail, the roughly 70 broke the budapest memorandum of $994.00 on the which ukraine gave up. what was the 3rd largest stockpile of nuclear warheads in return for guarantees of independence and border a guarantees from russia from the united states, u. k, france and china. so these countries in russia has broken it's have a duty to help you crane by the way, china is the country that could really help which in to get out of your current or else but yes, this is. a actually not from nature,
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because nature as an alliance doesn't have stockpiles of, of equipment. it's member space and numbers. they should be assessed on that pair. capital contribution to the ukranian defense. and on this, as i've mentioned before, the eastern europe looks good. the united states look good, the u. k. ok, but, but, but some of the largest countries in the european union and nato didn't look so good. but my bind is rarely that all president putin had to do was to waive his nuclear missiles that nato, from a distance and implicitly threaten to escalate to a nuclear war. and nato back down that is consequential isn't as far as global security is concerned. no, i didn't see it like that. it's that russian threaten us with mucus all the time.
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you know, when i was foreign minister, negotiated with the americans, the placing of the missile defense, i didn't, poland, they were doing it so. so frequently that i had to publicly off the russian general stuff to threaten us with nuclear annihilation. no more than once a quarter, and then they stopped. look, we are a nuclear lions to anything you can when you come back. the real threat is to ukraine. but my impression is that they were using this in the 1st month of the war and if they stopped, if moscow does prevail in the still pretty pessimistic about the outcome of this one to you said in may. if president putin gets the dumbass like he got crimea will then rebuild his army, and in a few years time, he'll go on the offensive again to try to get the rest of ukraine. do you really
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think as things stand now that ukraine is going to be in a position to prevent that happening? well, you know, our strategic culture says that you should always give the enemy so called off from an opportunity to correct a mistake, a. but what's president put you clearly douglas shall strategic culture. and you only need to read him from the india. say that i've already mentioned his proclamation to the russian people on the south of this war at to know that his, the objective is to take over or dominate, or at least the rule in all of ukraine. so yes, i'm afraid that that as see now, just mean more war and if you have time, so it would be better to, to defeat russia in the, in dawn, but also better for russia. remember, you know, as well as i do that in russia, revolution or reform usually happened after
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a long war. do you give an off ramp and you give excuses and you give away out to somebody who's forces have committed the kinds of war crimes, putins forces have committed 6 in the doesn't it my point exactly at know we should and remember the nature ministerial communicate, the aim of the alliance is, is true or false russian true back across the international border of ukraine. that would be a visible sign of twitching failure and hope for a government of russia in the future. you say that the, the nato plan last week, the ukranian, m, p, and head of the goal of the party, kara roodick said she was extremely upset because it didn't seem that the collective west had any kind of strategy or plan for how this war should be handled
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if she right. well, the americans have done all ukraine far more than i would have expected 5 months ago. partly because they see this as a warning to china not to try to take over taiwan. and let you know 20 the, the $20000000000.00 on the fence for ukraine only being delivered. now let's give them a chance. nato's boss, young stockton bug said a few days ago, that the alliance must be prepared for the loan. the whole is it in fact prepared for that in your view, or can you foresee circumstances under which nato might not hold together over that long haul and might reluctantly accept that russia hold on to the areas in the regions that it ceased? i think president putin has given the nature of a new lease of life, you know, off to the year of expedition. we've wafaa some people in the airlines were
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wondering whether it's still relevant. we've been warning a western allies all along russia, state ideology, russia security services, and russia sizes points to a new imperialism. and unfortunately, we've indicated it took nature some yes, to write contingency plans for central europe, then some minimal physical presence. but this physical presence is now increasing. we have elements of the 2nd airborne in southeastern poland. we have a logistical bridge to produce ports and fields with the delivery of of weapons and ammunition to ukraine. and there are plans to beef up nature present
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in central europe further, which is correct. you know, we had a russia a need for russia founding act, which russia has blatantly broken too, and have to be consequences. but that new lease of life that you're talking about for, for nato, depends on your crane winning, or at least being able to hold onto the territory it had up till february, the 24th, and russia losing. and that money, none of that, none of that seems likely, does it notes. and technically speaking, crane of course, is not nature. nature defend the territory of its members. are men from the point to the system. so it's giving to nato. it's got to wait and be better to stop teaching in easton ukraine, then to have to fight on the nature of border shore. but but,
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but ukrainian giving us the time to beef up the fences. and i just hope that countries now at last become serious about spending 2 percent of gdp on the defense . poland has been doing it for the last 15 years. we are now raising it to 3 percent. how worried are you about disagreements with in the alliance? i'm thinking of turkey blocking session by finland and sweden. stockton bug referred to himself in the last few days or something he take seriously. given the fact that old decisions in nato require consensus couldn't turkey seriously blunt nato's edge. not nature's edge, but can blantan lodgement clearly because you need an unlimited. you say the turkey is involved in a very bloody and difficult syrian civil war. and remember, the cut faction is also a factor in internal turkish politics, including in,
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in the current campaign, in turkey. so issues to do with a courtesy parties, all the formations are very serious, turkey and finland. and we'd have to engage in a serious dialogue with talk your budget. but i can assure you that the great majority of members, poland, included, we'll see finland and sweden as enhancements of our security. and i'd be very happy to have the sweden defense alongside me in the trench. let's talk a bit about america if we may. joe biden has spent the time since he took office, telling europe, and america is back. but the holy, legitimate question that the parents are thrown back at him was for how long is that question still valid? has the us become intrinsically unreliable for europe? well, you probably know the same, i don't know about covering stolen. who said that the trouble with democracy is you
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never know who's going to win. and yet we don't know whether donald trump might not come back and, you know, i mean, and if he does, he named europe as the foe. and remember his 1st impeachment was because he tried to blackmail the president, the landscape over on deliveries to ukraine a because you know, to, to give him debts on the hunter biden. and you know, this is the kind of stuff where we are likely to be dealing with if it will be a disaster for your call. said publicly that he trusted putin more than he trusted the v i. i think he, he would probably decrease, saw and american supposed to be. so in the light of that,
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is it time for europe to get serious about its own army instead of just talking about it or do john called young comments back in 2015 still whole good. when he said, if i look at the common european defense policy, a bunch of chickens would be a more unified combat unit. is that still the case? i'm glad you've probably seen some of my speeches in the european parliament. i've been bragging on about this for months. in fact, i was saying last. yeah. you know, what disaster has to happen on our board is before we get serious about european defense and pushing ahead exceeded my expectations because you absolutely right. if i that from becomes president, all americans rivalry china gets hot. next time we might not be so lucky to have american leadership in a crate on, on europe's periphery. and we would be thrown back on our own resources and we are
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completely unprepared. common defense takes a lot of money and time and we start getting ready. now you will be in serious trouble. that's why my pot, european people's party has table proposals in the process of the conference for the future of europe. to create a post of the commissioner for defense to create a rapid reaction force to enlarge the european defense budgets to have a joint headquarters and to have more joint procurement of weapons. so the defense euros are better spent. these are very urgent issues. so, so your idea is that europe should finally start punching above its weight instead of below its weight as it has been doing over the last few years. well, if we just started punching at the weight, i would already be satisfied. and you know,
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if it is particularly in germany's interest, if they really start rearming and it's a big issue because we know of the politics or inside viet then i think it would be in germany's interest to put that re armaments in the larger european also decision making context because we already have national, including in my own country the, the leader of the routing party is, you know, the germans have a, have barely started doing anything. and he's already accusing them of militarism. so i think it will be in, in, in germany, interest give strong backing to european, defend staying with germany. you, you observed last year that the modern international system had been shaped by what you called western wishful thinking and hubris. the blame germany about about wishful thinking and hubris. partly because germany found itself very comfortable with not having to do security policy and even to some extent foreign
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policy and living under the american umbrella and, and allowing itself to be led by other countries in foreign policy and pursuing very successfully at freight and industrial policy. and this was backed up by an honorable shame for what germany did during the 2nd world war. but it created the impression that somehow gemini is better because it's not using force to counter force. now the 24th of february should put an end to these illusions. we are not in a country and eternal peace. there are countries in europe, one particular europe who doesn't subscribe to these a find values. oh, who doesn't see that?
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the way to resolve ethnic problems in don't my, on the, in the dawn, but it's to apply the european convention on the protection of minorities, but which has launched an unprovoked invasion. and i'm afraid that to defend ourselves against the revision is aggressive. vision is part is the with counter power and, and, and germany has not fully absorbed his less. let's talk for a moment about the, the russian economy. the west has made huge sacrifices. we know to hit moscow with what they call punitive sanctions. how concern, though, are you that the effect of those sanctions now seems to be waning the ru boys now 30 percent above its pre invasion level, and is the world's best performing currency this year? that's not exactly what the west hope for, is it? no, and then we know the reason for that,
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namely that we have to buying russian carbohydrate and we need to, we need to, we not cells away from them. we need to diversify. if saudi arabia start pumping oil, the, the price should come down. and then, and then you will have less money to fight his war. the russian economy is facing this investment is facing restrictions on the high tech in force that should make it harder for him to rebuild his us know, particularly of high tech weapons. russia doesn't produce chips for, for its computers. so, you know, sanctions only have an ton but a, but i agree with what i think you're implying. namely, sanctions should be more costly to pushing them to all. so that's why we need to be
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smart about them. but you really think the west has done anything in terms of sanctioning either people or goods that will change attitudes in the kremlin. that was after all, the main point of the sanctions wasn't it know immediately. but, you know, in addition, we founded a trade in technology council with the united states, where we will be coordinating on the investment flows on trade practices and decisions and on industrial and technical and research standards. remember in the $1080.00, there was an institution of called cochlan coordinating committee, which restricted the flow of, of technology to the then commented blog. it took a while, but it worked to frankie late, commented the comments the column in the final were briefly on, on the concerns which are coming out of k f. what, what would you want to be able to tell them on behalf of nato. the cavalry is not the cavalry is coming,
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but at least the galleries are going to be sending sufficient weapons for them to do the job that we're asking ukraine to do from what the americans are telling me the wagon with i munition on the way. so hold on, hold on in the products of course key. thanks very much for your time. good to have your own program. thank you. yes. ah ah, with
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a contentious figure in here in germany. i think gorbachev is one of the great heroes of the 20th century mikhail gorbachev. the last leader of the soviet union was an agent of change. quickly met his downfall to resign my duties as president
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the arrow of time remembering mikhail gorbachev. in 15 minutes on d, w, i generating a lot of the members working virtual world shopping, good, our digital doppelganger is that the avatars are having fun. but is our data safe? and how do companies benefit we put on our goggles and dive into the members. made in germany with 90 minutes on d. w. a . we got some hot tips for your bucket list. romantic cornered,
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check. hot spot for food and some great cultural memorials to boot d w. travel off we go. departure into the know. today, this means flying to a foreign planet. in the 16th century, it meant being a captain and setting sale to discover a route the world famous c. voyage of ferdinand magellan. part of a race full power between spain and portugal. a race linked to military interests, erase, linked to political and military. christie, but also linked to making financial changes and adventure full of hardships, dangers and death. 3 years that would change the world
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forever. much jillions journey around the world. start september 7th on d. w. ah ah, this is dw news life from berlin. a mission to prevent nuclear catastrophe. a team of un experts is on its way to the russian occupied its operational plant in ukraine to safeguard it from fighting, raging around the site was coming up on the show.


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