tv MONEY With Melissa Francis FOX Business June 27, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm EDT
members have been out in droves this week, of course, trying to talk of the market. judging by the past three days -- cheryl: and it worked. all right. money coming up next. ♪ melissa: i'm melissa francis, and here is what is "money" tonight. the men's wear house kicked into the curve, but hell hath no fury. he may soon have his revenge. plus, the ceo is getting a $159 million pension, pension, not compensation. how did he score such an all inspiring pay out? and who made "money" today? they own shares of a company that is more heated than smallpox. they are letting the sweet smell of profits today. not sure who it is? state in and find out. even when they say it's not, it's always about "money." ♪
melissa: to the extent that there is a notion and a concern that there is over redaction, that is something -- >> this is junk. this has no meaning. >> it might be john, but it might be sensitive to spare information. >> it is not. we know it is not the man you're hiding behind it. in telling you, i'm putting you on notice. this committee intends to double the 1998 act, and we will follow through on it to make sure that the irs is forthcoming and not creating a bunch of nonsense hiding behind bureaucratic doubletalk. melissa: i guess friends in d.c. are not satisfied with acting irs commissioner internal audit of the tax agency. you can see that things got pretty heated at today's hearing when he presented his findings. he says liberal keywords were put in the so-called be on the lookout list so that no liberal
groups were ever actually targeted by conservative groups. so where exactly does that leave us? joining me now, someone the question to him earlier today. congressman, thank you for joining us. let me ask you right out of the gate, are you satisfied with the answers that you are getting and with the job that he is doing? >> well, i cannot judge him on his job because he has only been at 34 days, but it is this culture in this administration or no one answers the question. they dance around it. for the people i represent back in northwest pennsylvania, again, it ii the political talk the does not address the problem and does not address the situation that the american people just totally do not trust or have faith in this government and it is people like this man, and i know he is doing a good job. his report was just an update to where you would like to beat. he finds no wrongdoing anywhere and is not give us any faction leaders to the conclusion that somehow somebody is going to be held accountable. it is the accountability that
bothers me more than a thing else. do you just cannot operate like this and expect people to have faith and trust duke be treated just of work. melissa: that is absolutely true, but what you say you don't know if you're satisfied with the job you're -- he is doing? he is supposed to be doing an internal audit and figuring out who is to blame and how we can change the irs said this does not happen again this house like he is not. >> here is the thing. he is 34 days and. he said, this is going to take a lot longer for me to get to where i need to get to. my thing is, i don't think the american people are going tt wait. he says at least two months. i think the important thing is this committee, the ways and means committee will not stop probing and asking qqestions and getting to the root of what caused this problem because i don't believe it was casual. i believe that these are highly targeted. not everyone is treated the same weight. it's foolish to sit back and think that you can just talk your way through this and hope to run out the clock. that is what i saw happening today. i don't want to pass judgment on him.
i am looking at him and thinking, this is a guy that is running an agency of 90,000 people, to figure their way through a 75,000 page code and come up with answers for us. what we have to do is get the people who are accountable, start at the bottom and work to the top. goes forward. more people becoming involved and to speak up. melissa: she's a working your way to the top. we absolutely want to. are we getting any closer to finding out where this all started? >> well, i think that my way of thinking we are, but the time it takes to get there in the end of the testimony we have to go through is very large. we want to make sure is that when you make an accusation, you're making an accusation that is absolutely true and that we have no doubts about it before we say it. so i would just say, the depth of this scandal, to me, it could not be a couple of guys in cincinnati that pushed the wrong button, a couple of rookies that did not know. eat into me today. kind of did come back this way, but he is not sure yet. will we will do is keep pushing
in to find out and this uncertainty for the american people. we cannot do that we should not be here. melissa: at the same time i think americans want to know that the people who did have a role in this, whether it started with them or whether they just had a role in it are no longer at the irs, and so far that does not seem to be the case. if you look at the irs director at the time, she is on paid leave, whhch to me sounds like a paid vacation. she's still getting her0 salary. the acting commissioner was in may been schhduled to retire in june. managers have been replaced in the wake of the scandal. he can't reveal those names. replace. emmy, we don't even know for sure that they were fired. they just aren't in the position there were in before. sounds like no one is getting punished, and as distressing. >> it is, and ttht is why. he said he could not reveal where these people are. my reply, wouldn't it be even
better if you protect the american people. the same type of concern for them. what we can do. we will keep pushing and prodding and find out what is going on. i have found dozens i have been here in two and a half years that no one has been fired. what they do is they get deployed someplace else. they go out of sight for a while he is back at work. he never suffered a bit. melissa: unacceptable. >> unacceptable and something that we in congress have to keep pushing for to make sure we get to the department of justice. at that point holder has to do his job and to fill his ddty and obligation to the people of the united states which is what we're pushing for. this administration has to start standing up and respecting the people have faith and trust and put them in office another need to be held accountable. melissa: i hope you stay on top of this and make sure that it happens because it is distressing to hear that. thank you for coming on, congressman. >> thank you. melissa: a "money" update on a major development for %-the american ceo being held captive by his workers in china
has been freed. he was detained for almost a week after a payment dispute. dozens of workers had been laid off recently. they got severance packages, but the other employees that were not being laid off demanded similar severance packages be guaranteed. he refused. the standoff began. overnight they manage to reach a deal. the exact terms have not been disclosed, but he is now back in his hotel in beijing, taking showers. he says he lost 9 pounds. agassi kick started this summer swimsuit season. you could look at it that way,. >> reporter. up next on "money," you might want to consider moving if you're living in one of ten states that could be imploding from pension obligations. some are so baddthat pension costs are dwarfing the state's annual revenues. we have details of the report. plus, george zimmer is the latest in a line of founders
♪ melissa: so, if you have been following the case, and as global, you know that his firm somehow misplaced mmre than a billion dollars of customer money. not exactly chump change. the commodities futures trading commission charged and today and critics say that the charges should that included fraud. but charlie gasparino put the cf t c commissioner onnthe spot about it earlier and got pretty heated, if you missed it. watch this. >> reporter: the one word that i have not seen that you guys put out is a word fraud. are you guys charging jon corzine with civil fraud? >> no. we are charging him with is a violation of the law with regard to segregated funds. segregated funds our customer money. >> reporter: and know that. >> that money is supposed to be sacrosanct. it is a violation of that.
>> reporter: a lot of people would say that this is pretty weak tea. if you cannot charge a ceo of a company that obviously misused funds, i mean, you can borrow customer funds. you just have to put it back that day. we all know that. >> no, you can't. no, charlie. you cannot use customer funds. >> reporter: and not going to argue about the law. >> good. i know what i'm talking about. i know when and talking about. >> reporter: why is it that you're not charging him with fraud? if this guy did which would you guess it is so bad i elsie a fraud charge. it seems outrageous. it is not just me. i have been inundated with e-mails from mfglobal customers who still have not gotten their money back and by the way. some people and 70% on the dollar. you guys hit him with a charge that is not fraud which, quite frankly, two years later, we wrote on foxbusiness.com that he did not have the proper controls in place two years ago and it took you guys two years to come up with this? >> maybe you should send out the fox business police, charlie. we will deputize u.s. sheriff.
>> reporter: you can deputize me any day. i'll take that and bring charges within a week. melissa: that is classic charlie gasparino. i could not help replaying that. you have to admit, that is good tv. well, just when you thought that things cannot get any worse for state pension problems, a whole new way of looking at pension liabilities. a very scary picture for our country's economic health. in fact, the moody's report finds that ten states have net pension liabilities that meet or exceed the state's entire annual revenue. all the revenue. more from the "wall street journal" is here to help because the numbers. they are depressing and frightening and terrifying members. is this an accurate way of looking at this problem in your opinion? >> hi, melissa. the thing that was depressing for me is to my home state of illinois has the highest liability as a percentage of their revenue. melissa: 241 percent for illinois.
>> what that means, melissa, just so people understand is it would take two and a half years of this state dedicating every single penny of revenues that they collect each year just to pay off the pension obligations. that, of course, would mean they would have nothing left over for two and a half years to pay all of the other bills the government. melissa: anything. >> and by the way, there were, as you said, i think, ten states that are above 100 percent. that is over one year's revenues that would go to paying off these enormous pension obligations. by the way, they are getting bigger, not smaller. the states have done very little to deal with this crisis. melissa: but that list of their again if you could of the top five, i think it was because it is kind of surprising. it is not you would expect. i thought california would be on there, connecticut was number two, which was pretty surprising new jersey. hawaii at number five. were you surprised by the makeup of this list? >> let me say, something about
california because i was surprised. i went and looked at the numbers. now, according to the numbers of how big the pension liability, about $110 billion. just yesterday and jerry brown signed the california budget. it was 96 billion. that is over 100 percent of the state revenue. so i wonder if maybe the matter is wrong in some of these calculations because they are over 100 percent of their revenues per year. that is not as bad as illinois, but it is still pretty awful. melissa: let's look. i want to look at the best ten as well. because those were surprising and -- i mean, nebraska was -- idaho, nebraska, we know that they're doing a lot of things. new york was the fifth best with only 16%. how did new york make a top five list? [laughter] >> i know. you live there, i don't. i was shocked.
some of the states that are doing very well in this, states like utah that have moved away from a defined benefit pension program defined contribution. i have to say, that is really the underlying conclusion. you have to get rid of these unfunded liabilities by having a defined contribution system for its state lawmakers. and there is a silver lining. there are about five to ten states already that are looking to transition to that kind of system. melissa: if you are on the worst in the west, should you just pack up and flee your state? it's going to implode. if you're in connecticut, for example, and your number two on this list of states that going to implode, is not hard to move to another state. it's a small territory. move to new york, new jersey is on the list. should you just bail? >> here is how this is important. this is a lie. you know, this is what we call
legacy cost. tax payments that you make for services that you're never going to recede because these are just pension obligations, retirement obligations for services that were already provided. so if you're looking at moving to a state and want to make sure you're getting bang for your buck, for your tax dollars, you probably want to avoid states like illinois, states like california. i forget some of the other ones at the top of the list. i can see it. melissa: conn., kentucky. that was surprising. hawaii. if you live in hawaii. >> well, that's not all bad. but luck. this -- the money is not fine for schools, roads, prisons. it's going to pay for people in their retirement. melissa: always a pleasure. thank you for coming on. you're great. >> thank you. melissa: coming upon "money," what can george zimmer and steve jobs have in common? there were both pushed out of the companies that they founded. but just like jobs, george zimmer may have the last laugh.
it is all the word on wall street, and that is next. plus, that sound you hear is the business world's john hitting the floor. collecting a pension of $159 million. that's a pension. it has more than double the size of the competition. how did he pull this off? stick around. can you ever have to much "money"? apparently he doesn't. ♪
♪ melissa: whether it is on wall street or main street, year isee that owns time warner cable. sure, i may be one of the most famous companies in america. that is not stopping the ceo of liberty media from reportedly wanting to acquire it. looking at options for charter communications, which he owns a big chunk of. you buy the cable company.
shares of time warner cable jumped more than 4%. good for the shareholders. meanwhile, pay more money. new homeowners, the 30-year mortgage rate posting its biggest jump in 26 years according to freddie mac. just last week. no, no. the highest rate for a 30-year mortgage in two years. that will be a problem for the housing market. keep an eye on that. hello, dream job. want to make money as an online pioneer? amazon is looking for a head of drama series development. the job will lead the push into original content. this is according to a job posting. candidates should have a creative approval approach. problem-solving. keyword is frugal. ♪ >> right now it's buy one get one free. everything.
melissa: well, it is not looking good for george. we love george. the public fight between rich -- ousted founder george zimmer and men's wear house is getting ugly. in seniority he was fired after pushing to take the company private which he denies, but as he had verbally put the retailer in play? could men's wearhouse now be the target of a hostile takeover? with me is the head of that tape columnist. this is quite a sto. iean,e al feel le wkn is guy,ove t g. we hen seeing hi coercis foever whatapne at ishe scoop? i fl li i knowim liss yes fee l i k him. >>f yore likee a y on wat spos anfox bune mess y'reoi to l e wa y fl, i grantee it >> it's strange because to me he was unanimously reelected as chairman of the board. he founded the company 40 years ago. he used a cigar box as a cash
registerman he is just 64 years old. could be a case of he really was meddling. he says, i'm not an egomaniac, but the ceo -- melissa: it is always tough. when someone says that, you immediately think. go ahead. i'm not a diva, i swear. >> manage well enough for 38 years. he can't be off his rocker. they basically said that he was interfering too much, compensation decisions, for example. he is the chairman, that is the job of the executive chairman. into many companies that chairman abdicate -- abdicates that responsibility. on the board of men's wearhouse. i don't know. melissa: i did not know that. >> how tough he is when it comes -- melissa: that does not come to mind. >> exactly. so i mean, and he is the face of the company, which makes this very awkward because he actually may continue to be the face of
the company. they have to pay him for a few more years whether the use his image are not to be the representative of the company. melissa: well, isn't that an interesting question. at the same time they have to pay him a mmllion dollars for the next four years in order to use the ad. he was only making $10,000 as a result. now it will cost them a bunch of money. what do you think is really going on? this strikes me as one of those situations where somebody found the company, build it. it is a fantastic company, but then they want to take it public in order to really cash out, but at the same time they want to it's sort of like have you taken the lead to, but you lose control when you take it public. that is kind of what it is all about. >> it's hard to tell. he and his family own over four and a half% of the company, so does not like he has the right to call the shots. he is a large shareholder, but not the dominant 1 mile long shot. it could be that he just did not want to let go. it could also be that the board
is really abdicating responsibility. if you brought the idea of a deal and you refuse to look at it, then he says -- melissa: let me ask you that final question before we run at a time because we're looking at other founders. steve jobs, david newman of jet blue, jerry yang of yahoo, very famous people with ahead of their own company who were eventually forced out. did he put this company in play by sort of showing its weakness and opening it up to a hostile takeover, saying now wanted to take this back private and they won't let me. does that with the appetite a private equity? at their circling around. >> it could be. there could be blood in the water. and you looked at this company. it has no debt. it is in pretty good shape. it is the kind of business that private equity buys. it is not that big. morgan came out and said it could go, i could see someone buying it. it's at $37 per share. the stock is up on the back of
that kind of talk. so it's a possibility for sure. melissa: keep us posted. i love the story. thank you. great stuff. now turning to a ceo that is making big money, big pension money. the current ceo and chairman of a drug distributor mckesson has a pension, a pension worth $159 million. when i heard this story at but it was inaccurate. i could not believe that is true. that is by far the largest pension on file for current executive of a public company. 159 million is a huge retirement cushion. what is that doing in an old school pension instead of, for example, modern-day investment plan. with me now is wall street channel reporter, the reporter who dug through the paperwork to on wind the exact numbers. welcome to the show. this is bizarre, right? i mean, how unusual is this? >> well, it is very unusual. by far the largest pension ever.
we call the whole bunch of compensation consultants. never heard of anything like this. the biggest one never was probably 80, 90, maybe even 100 million at most for a public company. this guy is only 54 years old. founded the company 17 years and amassed a pension worth 1,509,000,000 as of march. melissa: we asked the question and viewers are looking into the screen right now how this possibly could have happened. the company gave an extra credit for years of service and for haiti did not receive. they waved a penalty for early retirement. the lump-sum volume was boosted by using a low discount rate. i wonder when you do something like this as a board and sign off, do you not think that anyone is going to notice in, asking questions? >> that is an excellent question. you have to realize that this was put in place probably about, well, various pieces over five
or six years, ending around 2004. @% that point retirement plans for ceos of top executives were a type of hidden pay. so it was -- you read the proxy statement and it is like, you cannot figure out what the retirement is for this deal because it is credible. in 2006 the sec said, you cannot do that anymore. you have to start disclosing. but by this point his whole formula was kind of set up and based on, you know, various parameters that have grown astronomically since then and has more than doubled since 2007. so i think at the time they put this in place maybe they did not think anybody -- melissa: anyone would notice. certainly that was not the case. the next closest one was at whitaker, ceo of at&t, at 84 and a half million in june of 2007. that sort of an old school company where you would expect more of that. when you started calling them and looking around what was the
response like? did a panic that you were exposing this? what has the response been since he published this? >> well, mr. hammergren, the ceo, did not return calls and it would not make him available. the spokesman said this is a contract was put in place. he came in to rescue or takeover company that was battered by an attorney scandal. all of the top ranks left and he was the last guys standing. he was not tainted by the scandal. he has triple the stock price, more than tripled. so he deserves a lot of compensation. i mean, that is true. the problem is that it is like he has already made a lot of money. we looked at his compensation, and he has made $355 million of the last seven years. so he is already one of the highest-paid executives in america.
in 2011 he was the number one highest paid. it is not like he has not done well. most people actually never heard of the company. it is basically a drug distributor. melissa: you mentioned and it doesn't 11 he made a hundred and $11 million. thank you for coming on the show next on "money," everyone listens. he is the managing partner of bain capital, also the co owner of the boston celtics. he sounds of on the chinese credit crunch, soaring interest rates, even the messy exit as coach of the celtics. you will want to hear this. plus, u.s. arms shipments to syrian rebels are under way, but the cia is still trying to figure out who should get them. are we sending males full of cash to send weapons into wrong hands? piles of "money" coming up. ♪
melissa: the matter what time is money is always on the move van shares taking a dive after hours coming up short on the fiscal third quarter earnings also with the full year outlook primarily blaming us drop of income and the stock is getting slammed. we always bring you a perspectivv from the biggest names in business. , managing partner from bain capital the co-owner of the boston celtics we were both
at the youth conference today in new york city to talk about the biggest thing moving markets right now. china has a lot of investors worried. but you have a completely different take? >> i think it is a little overblown in the chinese have done a great job to manage their economy. what they're really trying to do is shrink down the shadow banking sector. they are not after the base banks that use of the last couple days they opened up the window. their concern was the shadow banking was using high real-estate prices and speculation so they try to take many of the system to send a message that they ross sold lending in the shadow banking companies. so i think they will moderate that approach and sent the message so i think they will get back contract.
melissa: anytime you get in there to manage the bubble is seems like there are negative externality. >> you can also create a bubble. it is never perfect but i don't see a dramatic crash in the future. melissa: will reduce the opportunity, growth, and danger from private equity perspective? >> opportunity is every where with this low growth in fast market but there is the opportunity of the health care system reform as we now know more technology there are many opportunities with software, processing, and opportunities with the economic growth that has happened with the service providers. and the u.s. in general is the best place for rule of law and the capital
governance so it is a good market to invest in. >> europe did not react as quickly as we know the banks have amended they did not face up to the issues so the banks are still struggling a bit. india, proceed with caution. it had promised but the rule of law is not as perfect than the government's is a problem. we're very cautious in rehab fantastic partners. china? the key is growth to take advantage of what is happening economically and in japan we have had some great success because there are many under managed businesses are policies and they are starting to wake up to that and we had success there because doing business
with the capital who can grow those businesses to get them on the right track. >> how is private equity date -- different over the next decade? finigan pass to develop the capabilities. the good news is it is very well-positioned and we can help companies do exporting and the enormous amounts of value that what do you do with the stimulus and had you pull that back? we have seen issues with that but again like education is the long-term issue with the size of the deficit. melissa: it is that rewarded for long-term thinking so that makes it sound like that is the problem. >> the real problem is they wait until they get to the actual crisis? fortunately the politicians
have overreacted. but that didn't happen. it is the same and the problem for the country is in greece everything was fine. >> interest-rate will spike in the currency of the system. because the economy is doing better because of deficit is near 1 billion that is not a good number and is simply we have to get this in balance but just to put it get it 10 year program and hopefully we can press for that. melissa: does the fed get
out clean? >> the issue for the government just like the deficit to slow walk out of this expansionary policy. behalf to be careful in they have to do do it cautiously over a period of time. so they have a tough job on their hands but the solution just like the deficit will be a five or seven year plan to smooth it out to get where it was. melissa: he also said the chief energy would fuel manufacturing and a savior to the economy. he has been watching "money." good stuff. up next u.s. arms on the move to syrian rebels now the cia is scrambling o figure out which groups will get them? what is being done to make sure we're not giving weapons to our worst
weapons to a militant forces through jordan and will likely cost billions but a huge part of the equation is making sure that we're not spending money putting weapons and the wrong hands. joining me now is the state department official, welcome back to the show. they'd you for joining us. how do we make sure they put weapons into the hands of people who are not our enemies? and they will have small groups of syrian rebels how do we vet these rebels? >> it has gotten harder over the last two years because the moderates have either disappeared or have just gone and then you have foreign fighters or is honesty and also what is the track record of the agency involved?
this teeeight is in charge of the mists -- mission the military does a better job but the cia that is linked ideologically with the analysis of middle eastern conflict, those that baying to the muslim brotherhood so very little confidence. melissa: why was this yea chosen? >> i don't know. i could speculate the military is not enthusiastic not that they wouldn't do or doesn't have the capabilities to make life difficult but the military wants there to be two things and objectives and strategy in the obama has not made clear either of those things. we will make life difficult but what do we want syria to look like after words? and nine of those have been answered yet. melissa: how much will this
cost us? >> a lot. there is the cbo estimate just out that only covers the humanitarian part and that is $4 billion but to put into perspective libya cost 1 billion and the estimate is always too low so it will be expensive and potentially long as libya and said being shorter because the arab states on rebels on the ground that does not appear to be happening like syria. >> is there anything we could do to minimize the chance the weapons go into the hands of people to use them against us? >> it would have been easier to years ago. but let's get the people who have defected from the as side army they are more inclined to be secular and more weary of the four in g hottest those of a gas
separation of mosque and state and maternity to tell them you have to look at the foreign geodesy and make sure they're not part of a tureoverent at i it t weon'tave at siatioto me th quirent. lisstougandessy. ntom peoeanno ughtnd oers me an. just a few a gross? chinese food has an immigration officer. it is all in "spare change." you can never have too much money. ♪ ♪
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risk includedes possible loss of principal. melissa: it is time for a little fun today with "spare change." thank you for joining us. >> it cost 200 eggrolls. very expensive. melissa: you are jumping the gun. a unique bribery tool in immigration officer was cited for excepting brought -- accepting bribes and 200 eggrolls. the female officer took bribes from immigrants who wanted citizenship and green cards but did cheat them all at once or planning a party?
>> all at the same time? >> 200? melissa: what is that worth? fifteen dollars? >> i don't know the resale value obviously the dollar is losing value so people have resorted to different types of currency. why not? >> have you ever accepted that as a payment. >> i don't like them. >> meatballs may be a. melissa: glow in the dark labor ginnie. look at that. it glows in the dark. it did not have a friend license plate then they discovered the driver had no license, no insurance, is seriously? twenty-four year-old member of the royal family.
still medicated not have a license plate on the front. >> it looks like of car from the animated movie cars it is between obnoxious wealth and obnoxious behavior regis of that because he obviously didn't think he had to follow rules. >> that is just in juvenile behavior. >> i was a perfect. >> and rives around the purple:the dark labored tv without a license orr3 insurance? >> typical 24 year-old. melissa: moving on. [laughter] not yes but yes, sir. and this was a study to determine where's that build
consensus of our them more persuasive and that signals it agreement with the meeting. >> i use surprised? >> yeah. >> but yes is the word. >> day you know, who is ahead of the curve? austin powers. yeah, baby that is a great tagline. that got the ball all jazzed up. yeah, a baby. >> since 11 million meetings take place eveey day. melissa: it means your positive and compliant i will say that to every meeting i go to from now on. why not? here is a good one the university of rasper and in
virginia had to spelling mistakes the more egregious one they actually miss build virginia. how was the possible? at left out the final i and according to university it has appeared in more than 1400 diplomas. >> everybody to get a diploma in latin deserves to have their to property spell. >> it is not the first time. we're is a proofreader? doesn't somebody have to look at something? >> somebody has to sign off. melissa: this means they should forgive all student loans because they could not get it together for their diploma than why are they charging anyone? the deal.
>> i am on top of that. maybe they will forgive all student loans.l the money we ha. we will see you tomorrow. the oil report is next. >> i am denis deal. then next big financial meltdown and taxpayers have to clean this up with the student loan debt about to explode the government? down on government websites and important for me should you need to know and the backlash against college dean and the support she is getting from some people. >> of a first our top story tonight government red tape taking