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tv   Bulls and Bears  FOX Business  May 4, 2014 8:00am-8:31am EDT

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up nerd style on the show tomorrow. >> this is my kind of tv. may day protest causing a may day for jobs. these guys blaming capitalism for america's problems, and capitalism is what keeps americans great and keeps us employed, and just as we see jobs picking up are these guys trying to tear it down. this is bulls and bear. and tracy burns, and jonas max barious, and along with jessica urlack. do they want jobs or higher
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wages, even if they want both, which they should, they should be rooting for capitalism. if you look back at some of the richest people we have had in our country's history, they were all capitalists. henry ford, john paul getty, bill gates, steve jobs. my gosh, the amount of millionaires that bill bill gates created in microsoft, they built whole industries and build millions of people. these protesters sreut all wrong, and they don't understand economics or are looking at something like cuba, which is
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rampant in unemployment. >> in the end there were -- at the end of the day there were masked ones and i am not sure what they were there for. the unions gathered to protest immigration and deportations going on, and they have been doing it on may 1st, 2006. >> should they be thanking capitalism or bash it? >> you know, definitely i think they should be, you know, thanking capitalism in the sense the basis is a strong capitalist cast. i certainly don't know any teachers or bus drivers or plumbers or folks that belong to unions that fit into the bill of
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people who bash the capitalist economy. >> they do ask for higher wages, jonas, and you are a little worried that without those wages these few rogues could turn into a few threats to folks. >> a good side affect is jobs. your two choices are to create wealth and wealth is going to be inequal, or create no wealth, and that's where nobody has wealth like the soviet union or cuba, and it looks like a small group creates most of the wellth, and then you have revolution and then capitalism gets poor. even though they may not become billion airs. health care is being subsidized
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by wealth. you are rewarded from the wealth in those distributed to people. >> the jobs report came out and it was better than expected and the employment rate dropped. what do you think of that? >> it's a good jobs number. we are still overall job loss since president obama took office and we have 92 million americans plus out of record now, a record, and in 36 years it has been since we had a labor low this force in participation. we have a long way to go. we have high unemployment in our country, and to do away with that you will need people like bill gates. these guys that were protesting, they are taping it on their iphones, and asking the government to raise their minimum wage so they can work for a government they hate.
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these guys are morons. there were 400 of them and you can put that many in them in a large room without having a fire code. >> to john's point, 806,000 people left the workforce. that's not a good sign. the brenda, the message comes from the top. where do they get the notion? listen to the administration. labor of secretary was on fox business on friday saying you know how we are going to make jobs better for people? increase unemployment benefits to people, and pour more money into infrastructure, and all the stuff that has not worked. it's not encouraging cont intrapreneurism. >> you can say the jobs number
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was good. do you think it's a signal that we might be getting more of a recovery? >> i don't. i guess i disagree with some trepidation with john on this. he jobs number was good, and i don't think it's good, because he did point out the one most important point, the labor force participation right now is horrible. it's getting worse and worse. yes, the jobs number grows because the population is growing. the job growth is not keeping up with the number of people out there that should have jobs or are available for jobs. in other words, it's not keeping up with our labor force at all. we're going to the wrong way. the most important numbers we have were not really the job numbers, it was the gdp numbers that came out on thursday which showed one sector, one sector growing and resulted for all of the positive growth in the gdp,
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and that was the health care sector and the only reason why that was growing is because we have the obama administration in the plans, otherwise we would be step into a recession if we got one more quarter like we had in the past quarters. >> jessica, that's true, the gdp which is the best gauge of the overall economy rose just .1%. >> yes, and that is a direct result. we had this horrible winter that affected the economy and defl e deflated things, and then you have people year over year of people who had gone for doctor and hospital services have doubles and this is a result of the hidden bubble of people who were not able to get access to care previously and are now getting access to the care. we are going to see the numbers to increase. i don't see how you can argue that having, you know, an increase in doctor and hospital
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services that helps the economy where you have more people, more americans getting coverage and health care is a bad thing. >> but that's not what is happening. >> that is what is happening, and that's what economists are saying is happening. >> they are up 5.4% in the final quarter of 2013. health care costs going up by the second because people are enrolling and not paying and the doctors are quitting on this altogether because they don't want to, so less doctors means the price is going to go up for the rest of us for those that have them. the whole notion of handing stuff out had led to an economy in part time jobs. >> that's got to be the loss -- let's do more infrastructure projects. >> sorry guys. you want you to get in on the conversation. cavuto asking if it's
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impossible to stay number one when you are dealing with this number? that's coming up. first, obamacare kicking in and now health care spending exploding. why the biggest jump in more why the biggest jump in more than 30 years shouldn [ laughter ]
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so remember this? >> since the law took affect health care spending has risen
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more slowly than anytime in the past 50 years. >> well, maybe not. a new report finding health care spending surging nearly 10% in the last year, and that's the fastest pace since 1980. can america afford this, john? >> no, the ones that need to be signed up to pay for the people getting the insurance right now are not signing up. nothing was done to health care. there is no reason a procedure at one hospital costs you $5000 and the same procedure at another hospital costs you $50,000. health care was not fixed. arguing over who pays does not fix the fractures within the system. since 2009, health care costs have come down globally, not because of obamacare. they have argued that. that was before obamacare. it was the recession that brought it about. now you are seeing obamacare implemented and the health care cost arising, we are going to pay for that through tax dollars. >> jessica, john makes a good
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point. supporters of obamacare point to the fact that health care has been coming down and that predated the law, and what is happening to costs? >> well, the number they are referring to in terms of spending are not that necessarily per visit amount that is going on, and it's the fact that more people are going to see doctors and more people are getting hospital services. the more people that you have and the more demand that goes into the marketplace, you will see the costs continue to decline, and that's what is happening now. you are seeing more people enrolled in the program and there will be more enrolled, and according to the public comments by the insurance companies that have been up-to-date, at least 85 to 90% of the people that have been enrolled in the insurance programs have paid their deues. >> that makes no sense
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whatsoever. if you have a store that is full of fraud and being over charged and increasing the customer count from ten to 50 customers a day does not magically fix it. the math does not work in anybody's real world. >> the obamacare, the costs is crowding out spending on other things, and so many people have to spend on health care? >> yeah, i think you will see premiums go up for the reason john said and the other reason p p p premiums are going up, and one man signed up so he could get the heart surgery, and god bless the guy, he got the surgery, but that points to the whole roost obamacare is, and now the insurance company has one month of premiums and has to pay off hundreds of thousands in medical
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bills for this guy. i am glad he got the surgeon raoe, but that's the point. that's what is going to ruin health care, if you will. they have to pass the costs on to somebody. either hat and hand back to the government, the world saying, hey, we are losing money you have to reimburse us, which they made signs they will do, or pass the higher premiums to the young people that john mentioned or people like you and i. the more money we spend on health care, you are exactly right, the less money we have to spend on food, gas, clothing and other things. >> jonas, what is your take? >> i didn't spend more money on health care in the last few months. this is the preexisting condition person that all of a sudden can afford health care insurance, and that's this bump so to say. i am not saying it's going to go away, because any insurance, this predates obamacare leads to
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over consumption. you have insurance and now you can use it. it's good everybody is insurance, but if everybody has a lot of insurance, it leads to reckless behavior, and if you take cholesterol medicine you will eat more high cholesterol foods because you can. >> i have told you so many times not to bring up your scooter. >> what it comes down to, it's free for me. there is a reason we eat the stuff in the green room. i can go. i have a hangnail and i will go to the hospital and check it out. all of those people seem to be okay, minus a few that had serious issues that were not insured. but the rest of us will start to abuse it to death and the costs are going to continue to go up. >> but those cookies are good. >> yes. while health care spending
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is surging, the percent of americans living the american dream is sliding, so why is somebody here saying that's actually a good thing? i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn.
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obtaining the american dream may be getting harder. the home ownership rate dropping to its lowest level since 1995, but jonas, you say it's a good thing. why? >> it's a great thing. this whole ownership thing is absurd. it was taken to a level -- it's
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nice to buy your house but it's not a good investment compared to the stock market. so many incentives to buy a home, you can sell it without having capital gains. why not put the focus in the stock market. it has a lot of taxes and maintenance out of the buyer, so everybody should not be a homeowner. it's tying up all your wealth, and then it grows with inflation. >> but what about the american dream? everybody is supposed to have a little piece of it? >> exactly. jonas and his ideas have just killed it for me. like it or not, people of my generation, and i think i am probably one-half generation above jonas, we're the baby boomers. we bought into the american dream of you start in a small home and went to a bigger home and etc., etc., and when you were in your 60s, you took all
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that equity out of your home and downsize and use the cash to travel to europe or spend on your kids and pay off the house, and buy a smaller one. that's pretty much drying up right now, because the demand and the move up market is dying. all of those people like me, who thought they were going to get a nice chunk of equity out of your house, you will be lucky to break even. the problem, less spending by the baby boomers and it will hurt the economy, and they saw the home as our investment and our stock market, and less money to go around. >> but we had the bubble in the market, and now don't we need the bust? >> yes, and the bubble was created exactly -- in 1995, that's where 64% of home ownership where we are right now, and you had clinton decide to increase homeowner ship up to 70%, and then you had barney
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frank saying let's roll the dice on mortgages and that created the entire housing dilemma and recession, and there's a reason the home ownership rate should stay 64 to 65% in america. getting back to the average is a good thing. >> jessica, quickly? >> well, i am going to say that i agree that home ownership as an economic indicator is not a wise place to go, but i disagree as to where that came from. it was asthe economy bubble that we had in 2000 and going forward in 2001 after the terrorists attacks and a direct relationship from the bush bang. but we could go from there -- >> that had nothing to do with that. >> oh, it absolutely did. that's when we started looking at home ownership as an economic indicator. >> we can't get into that right now, and i am sorry, jessica. i want to get tracy in. it's hard to get credit and hard to save for a down payment and
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get a mortgage. >> that's it. and maybe i don't want to dump my life savings into a home right now, and maybe i want to start a new company and that's the way to do it. they are rethinking the way we will see home ownership in the years to come. i will be the first person to tell you, i can't stand the fact that i have to pay a landscaper. >> thank you, guys, and thank you, jessica, foroining us. nothing is wrong with moms and dads helping their grads with a job search, but sitting in on their interview? are you kidding me? ahead of the derby today, the sure bet ready to take off. with my friends, we'll do almost anything.
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predictions. gary, take it away. >> these darn health care stocks are going to go up. aetna up, 50% that >> jonas, bullish or bear. >> not that bullish. >> gary, are you going to go against john on this? >> with trepidation, again. >> jonas? >> if you were a drinker after new year's, cinco de mayo coming up is your holiday, and the lime shortage, budweiser has bud lite live, so up 50%.
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>> john, bull or bear on that? >> i need a drink to understand you. bear. >> tracy, quickly? >> weird, weird trend. parents going on interviews with their kids. stit. cut the cord. for get about being number one. it's our number up. don't look now, but america's days as the top economic super power are numbered. china now set to grab the top spot as early as this year, while our economy is all but stalling and now we are left asking if this is the reason why. our guests, gary k? >> it's hard to stay number one when you run up $17 trillion in debt and it's still growing and nobody doing anything about it. to be fair, china, i don't think some of the


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