john: is this our future? riots, long lines people waiting to get food, fighting over bags of flour, dying in hospitals that have no supply? this is socialism. some americans would want more of this. fortunately she lost but what will donald trump bring? >> we are going to charge you with 35% tax. john: will trump turn america into this? will we learn from venezuelans
of cuba's mistake or is there a future death by socialism? that's our show tonight. >> and now, john stossel. john: death by socialism? how can i call the show that? to many people socialism is good or fair or equal. the word socialist after all is derived from society. we are all in this together. bernie sanders calls himself a democratic socialist and he almost lost the democratic nomination by promising socialist benefits. >> this campaign is about moving the united states toward universal health care. john: at this sanders event supporters carried red flags, red as a number of -- the color
of socialism and communism. look what socialism has done to people in venezuela. 50 years ago venezuelans have the highest wages in south america and then they elected hugo chavez. he said we will make it even better than socialism. american leftists were excited. a hack at salon wrote about hugo chavez economic baracl but what really happened? >> stay thousands of people waited in long lines to try to buy food. this line goes around the block and then back again. some line seemed to stretch for miles. often people wait in line and find the store has run out of food. food is so scarce that people fight in the street over bags of flour. ever see this at greedy
capitalist free-market country's? know. how did things get this bad in what was once the richest country in south america? how do they get that back? lift us and people who should know. gloria alvarez lives in guatemala and has watched socialist i guess iraq. fergus hodgson read the newspaper that reports on latin america. how did this happen? john: they didn't like it that some people were rich. c what happened is the oil industry particular came in early on and many people got rich. many of them got wealthier and others did not. there was a perception that obviously a capitalist economy that some people are getting rich even back then in an unjust way so if you come in and say i'm going to solve your problems i'm going to overcome this, that's appealing. john: gloria is it unfair? i call it death by socialism.
>> actually it's not unfair when the things we need to understand is venezuela is the most symbol of something is going on regionally that is well planned. when we thought that communism is history after the berlin wall fell in latin america socialism have a new opportunity to win the elections democratically, not with marxist rhetoric is cuba did that to have the same agenda implemented. john: chavez was elected. >> he was elected and more also selected, everyone that is now part of the socialism of the 21st century agenda was democratically elect did. not through violence but through ultra-manipulation of the language, of the media, of the arts. we are going to implement the idea that socialism is good where people think that they want this type of society. john: because? >> because it's going to be better for everyone and this is
the other idea. the leader is a synonym of the will of the people. the leader knows better than any individual how everyone is supposed to live their life. john: north americans don't understand the problems the socialism causes either as the bernie sanders campaign showed. this cartoon depicts a socialist loving bernie supporter tried to convince a man from venezuela to feel the burn and the venezuelans said, been there, done that. he has already been burned and he is hungry. >> in latin america the government gives privileges to certain sectors making the economy something only for the few. this creates resentment of the larger amounts of people and this is when they go to extremes. it's the same that happened in germany after the crisis of world war i. it's the fault of the jewish and people say we are going to let
you to change the situation. they have lamed free markets as if we in latin america had never had free-market which was not the case. >> the capacity of the social is to defend the decision with the evidence is impressive. let's say we have capitalism supported if you put on a price cap and say we have to sell everything below cost you are going to sell them. john: and markets won't carry in the food goes. it's not just venezuela's out of food and opportunity, people died there because there are no medicines. this girl is suffering because she doesn't have access to the meds she needs. her hospital is even on the basic medical supplies like alcohol. as a result it's mostly empty. people don't even bother going gloria you have friends who are smuggling in medicine and? >> guess because of something is in the funny thing is when they go to the rest -- some colonel or sergeant in charge of taking
medicine out of their hands are asking for some of the medicines for their moms, for their grandmothers because the military is also in need of medicine for their elders so you will implement corruption. john: in america celebrities are some of the -- people kim kardashian and kanye west visited cuba. they did their celebrity poverty tour. kim wrote i love cuba, one of our best trips. here is her sister khloe posing in front of -- here's movie star sean penn hugging venezuela's current dictator. oliver stone claims the old dictator did great things for venezuela so made a movie about it. how he grew up in poverty. >> this affected you and in the soila as well is ultimately his lifelong mission to transform the country.
john: chavez is the people. we should point out that the information we are receiving is not accurate. there is no free speech in venezuela. there are over 105 political prisons right now. the opposition newspapers are closing up. they can't import the raw materials to get the information out. john: they also get attacked by representatives of the government. >> people who are photojournalists in venezuela and people i've worked with closely bad to use pen names to conceal their identity. john: gloria sent this video made by people who live in venezuela. [speaking spanish]
john: are the people who took these pictures at risk for taking the pictures? >> yes, absolutely. it is punished with jail if you try to film for example as i did. they would have caught me because there are military personnel. john: all these who are taken in secret. >> you have to. otherwise you could end up in jail. john: socialism caused the problem and the president blames specular cement capitalism. [speaking spanish] john: parasitic capitalism is the problem. >> this is one of the most incoherent things about the regime of socialism. they tell people listen you were
too weak and you are. i will take you out of poverty but at the same time they present themselves as the messiah that will take you out of poverty they tell you being rich is being immoral that being capitalistic is immoral. how can you say that if someone starts producing then you will punish them for being successful john: in this country the democrats say that and maybe that's why they were voted out. i asked you on social you on social media about similarities between america and socialist venezuela, between trump and chavez. on facebook david jones posted obama was five -- far more like chavez. both believe in government control of every aspect of life. michael thompson thompson added donald trump a socialist from turning america into a third world country and fergus you like trump. >> i don't think anybody thinks trump is a free-market secularist. my concern is the comparisons
chavez. chavez was a military man. trump hasn't had a role in government ever. he hasn't shown antiviolence. john: it's an unfair comparison. we like to make those on the show. on facebook i like what tristan posted trump is the crony capitalists. chavez is a true believer and complete government. both are terrible but chavez is far worse. >> they have this thing in common saying i'm going to defend the people against this enemy that it has forget it. in the case of chavez's oligarch in the crony capitalists and in the case of trump was illegal immigrants but there's another component of the manipulation that was used with sanders and hillary clinton which is offering free stuff. there is no such thing as a free lunch and this is the message you can also see the chavez.
john: some people are rich and you can take from them and give to the people in need? >> you can do it. that's the redistribution. john: why does it does help the poor? >> when you redistribute what you do is you take what exists in a determined moment and from then on thursday the innovation our creation. that's why looks like a picture of 1969. after that there's no more creation. john: later in the show we'll look at similarities between donald trump and socialistic -- gloria and fergus thank you both for joining us. good luck fighting for freedom. also coming up people in prisons just for speaking. just for speaking. [speaking spanish]ways wins.
especially in my business. with slow internet from the phone company, you can't keep up. you're stuck, watching spinning wheels and progress bars until someone else scoops your story. switch to comcast business. with high-speed internet up to 10 gigabits per second. you wouldn't pick a slow race car. then why settle for slow internet?
john: let's pause that was there. nothing donald trump's a socialist but some of his ideas are pretty close. institute economist ryan mcmackin says the road to socialist missouri is a slippery slope and some of trump's ideas put us on that slope. >> yes, well and trump is a politician and his methods are the same as all other politicians. the idea is to control, too regimented redistribute wealth so that's what he is doing. john: how is imports for taxing them socialism? >> by imposing tariffs. first of all these raising more revenue for the state to do things and to redistribute wealth but also by increasing tariffs in any restriction on trade tellinpeople what they can and cannot buy at what price they can and cannot buy. it's another type of central planning. john: western venezuela that the tatar ordered deportation of immigrants from columbia.
>> economic nationalism. we are going to use the power of the states to exclude foreign goods, foreign persons, any sort of foreign influence in the country of the idea that the things that are foreign are somehow a threat to the domestic market. john: the foreigners are doing bad things. >> we are somehow taxing these bad foreigners. john: in the case of venezuela kicking them out. they kicked out the colombians for the colombians were business people who sold them the things they need to. >> of course venezuela is much poorer than columbia. it's not like they are taking advantage of event is within system. these are very productive people trying to trade and bring wealth and a venezuela and they are being kicked out. john: this crash compares my making trump got elected and a lot of the socialist dictators are dictators. spent venezuela still has elections and they are the constitution and according to their law these people are
legally the leaders of this country. >> there is fundamentally no regime that is truly unpopular in the sense that nobody wants it. whether they are elected or not they enjoy the approval. john: under venezuelan socialism the government took over the oilfield and that's one reason they don't have enough oil now because they just at managing things. they took over agriculture, finance and a bankrupted themselves. we are not doing that. >> the u.s. is and nationalizing companies in that way at all. to partially nationalize industries and perhaps buy a stake in the. john: some would argue donald trump by going to indianan doing a special deal with the carrier company, this is kind of like nationalizing in saying do i want and he's going to go
company by company? >> i can see the administration going around to different companies declaring victory after getting the company to stay in the country but really what it is is we are threatening all these people with a huge tax. again that taxes and just on the company. that tax is going to be on anyone who wants to purchase from the company or if carrier were to go to another country people would have had access to less expensive air-conditioning. john: in business with a thick media doesn't like the dictator pointing out there are programs like food shortage. america's president-elect is like the media either. >> i'm going to open up our laws so when they raise harmful and false articles we can sue them and win lots of money. john: obviously in america we still have a free press. in venezuela however opposition
tv stations have been checked down and a newspaper editor gets sent to jail in one newspaper has covered. >> anytime we get information saying the regime is doing a bang up job they will attack the newspapers. john: venezuela has a constitution and it says it protects freedom of expression. apparently the constitution is too weak or apparently a large portion of the population is willing to tolerate freedom of speech. freedom of speech is stronger than the u.s.. john: it is so far. that's why i was appalled when i was looking in my twitter feed on my phone and right up top was a personal message to me from donald trump. nobody should be allowed to burn the flag. they do perhaps a year in jail. that creeps me out. >> it is really a moot point.
john: it's free speech and also private property. if i buy the flag it's my flag and i can do to it what i want. >> you spun the yarn and wove the flag out of the thread and maybe your own and then you burn it to buy with the government have been issued? john: whitest donald trump say that in fact hillary clinton wanted to ban it to matter. >> that's absolutely right. appeals to a certain segment of supporters, the un-american types out there that are saying things that are unpatriotic and damaging to the united states but of course it would be far more damaging for the u.s. to clamp down on freedom of speech. john: now after making his nasty comparisons of donald trump i want to end by pointing out there are a bunch of things he seems to be doing that we think are good. >> one of the best things about his election campaign was he often spoke about the crushing burden of regulations on business and i think that's why a lot of people voted for him. they are concerned about their
ability to earn a living. john: ca has a school choice advocates an education department. >> people want to be left alone, a lot of people do. john: are you excited about the next four years? >> it's so hard to cut through the rhetoric to figure out what he mean seriously what is joking about. is trump true believer or a pragmatic politician? hopefully he's a pragmatist. john: thank you ryan mcmackin. next how clueless or some people? why did they protest the very system that makes their lives better?and happiness♪
capitalism, his a s. and demand to support chavez and castro. how can they be? well. down. a bernie sanders rally notice the soviet flag? don't progressives know the soviet union failed as it was awful for people? society has become prosperous thanks to capitalism. people enjoying a prosperity often don't realize it through their lives are pretty good only because of free markets. the richest country in latin america now is chilly but 50 years ago chile was poor. >> people were convinced that the way out for society was communism. they actually wanted to destroy the market. john: he's a former minister of finance. the calmness destroyed the market and brand the economy to the ground. that led to violence much like what we see in venezuela now.
augusta pinochet took over the government. he was vicious come heat killed and jailed thousands of people. he had the sense to leave the economy to people who understood it better than he did. he turned to economists who studied milton friedman at the university of chicago. >> people that believed in free markets is a free society. john: milton friedman said i never advised pinochet in none of us approved of his dictatorship that because pinochet allowed freedom of suggestion chile moved. venezuela was once four times as rich as chile and nap chile is twice as rich as venezuela. that's progress for chile. the web site human progress.org tracks progress around the world. the editors and most of the world has experienced progress.
>> indeed especially the age of globalization over the last 40 years. we have seen a dramatic decline in poverty, absolute poverty across the world. when president reagan became president of the united states in 1981, 80% of people in east asia lived in absolute poverty which is to say on less than $2 a day. today, 4% do. john: because of the localization that donald trump doesn't like. >> because they trade with the rest of the world and exchange information they become wealthy as a result. john: so donald trump says we need walls. we need limits on trade. >> free trade and if it's everyone even countries that are good at producing everything. john: the newest web site is entitled your life in numbers. you can plug-in any country and compare progress or lack of it. he can see the massive difference in chile in venezuela
venezuela income fell by 20% and in chile it rose 228%. >> you also compare level of democracy. >> two people have a choice between two political parties were multiple parties or two or more candidates? are their checks on the power of the executive? to people at civil rights? are they able to enjoy free press? are they able to enjoy fe association and based on those criteria countries are assigned a level of democracy. john: with less stay control everything is better. life expectancy is better in chile and there is less crime. >> venezuelans lived longer than chileans. now chileans lived eight years longer than venezuelans. john: this is what drives me crazy about people in american chile. they don't get it despite a clear it is that free markets
has done wonders for them. some people in chile like bernie sanders and green party supporters here still want socialist control. this was held among the richest parts of chile. decent people demand a higher minimum wage, fuel subsidies, cheaper water and electricity. after some of them threw rocks police turned on water cannons. the violence continued for months. they don't understand what takes their lives better. >> the advocates of small governments have dropped the ball. they assumed that the great accomplishing and so the chilean economy would speak for themselves and as a result there were very few think tanks, civil societies. john: it's just visible. >> because the left never bought into the chilean economy model.
john: the american model like bernie sanders. >> they make a lot of noise and they have friends in the media and amongst the young people at universities, it's very fascinating that the collapse of venezuela has not had more of an impact on the left and destroying the mythology around socialist economics. john: it doesn't seem to have any impact on bernie sanders supporters. >> people should have learned from the collapse of communism in eastern europe and they happened. john: thank you. coming up this american spent four months in a venezuelan jail where he heard screams every night. his crime, challenging the his crime, challenging the socialists.
uh, kind of. if you see a teen or adult suddenly collapse, the first thing you do is...? call 9-1-1. and the second thing you do is? push hard and fast in the center of the chest at a rate of at least one hundred beats per minute. who even knows what one hundred beats per minute even sounds like? ♪ well, you can tell by the way i use my walk, ♪ ♪ i'm a woman's man: no time to talk. ♪ ♪ music loud and women warm, ♪ i've been kicked around ♪ since i was born. and now it's all right. ♪ ♪ it's ok. and you may look the other way ♪ ♪ we can try to understand ♪ the new york times' effect on man ♪ remember it's only two steps: call 9-1-1. and push hard and fast in the center of the chest to the beat of 'staying alive' until help arrives. ♪ ah, ah, ah, ah ♪ stayin' alive ♪ ah, ah, ah, ah ♪ stayin' alive ♪ ah, ah, ah, ah
socialism is more than just rec economy. again and again again it leads to tyranny. unbelievable cruelty. thousands of people are in jail in venezuela because they are scared to criticize the dictator. he got four months in jail for what the government called inciting violence but he was released two months ago and joins us from california. were you inciting violence? >> no, i was not not. it's very important to point out that the regime has, for many years, put people in jail just for speaking out and for doing opposition. i was a victim of this and i was part of the process to recall this constitutionally protected process and they put me in jail for four months. i was in four different prisons,
seven different cells and i witnessed torture. i myself witnessed a man being tortured for half an hour in the middle of the day, the prison warden was present when this was occurring and he was beaten. also, i saw people running naked in the middle of the sun being handcuffed. >> just out-of-state is him or why they and not you? >> mostly because my case was very high profile. >> i want, i was four months in jail and i'm out now. my case was very high profile and it?x"efinitely helped that i was a dual citizen. i'm a lucky one. there are people who spend years in jail and are suffering horrible consequences. >> i'm looking at this picture here of you in a bus, or detention best. what's going on their? >> that was when i was recently jailed. you see the national guard right
there. a lot of the security forces inside venezuela, they are against what's going on with the regime. >> talking with him for a while, you could see, they are living the same to rest that people are living in venezuela. you talked about socialism in your program, but at the end of the day, an authoritarian regime that is starting its people and the security apparatus feels it as well. >> you are arrested because you are participating in opposition protest. it shows you with an opposition leader in this photo. don't you worry when you are there, and how come protest goes on and only some people get imprisoned. >> whoever they put in jail, it sends a message to everything else. it's a selected persecution that sends a message of fear. the message is very clear. anyone who opposes this regime and actively protest on the street or anywhere else or voices their opinion has a real threat of being put into jail.
>> what is the connection between political repression and socialism? socialism is just an economic system. why does it so often lead to oppression in this cruelty. >> the state is in every part of society. not just economic part but in politics, and that's that's what happens with this regime. itself described as socialism, but it's a real authoritarian regime when you have people being put into jail in tortured and the intelligent police jail cells. that's the way they do it and they do it for one reason only to maintain power. that is the only thing they care about at this point. not the well-being of the venezuelan people. >> i'm now looking at a picture of you on the day you are finally released from prison. you are hugging your parents. >> it was a big relief. the best thing i can describe what it's like to be free, if you you can really call it being freed because i was asked to leave the country, i couldn't remain where they would put me back in jail. imagine being kidnapped kidnapped with a group of
friends and you released and so what's in your mind constantly is all those friends that are left behind, that are having these horrible conditions and are still living through what i went through. as i always said, i'm a lucky one but the regime, in the four months of going through this prison, they described themselves as a socialist socialist regime and the most vulnerable part of society other ones in prison. these prisoners, from political prisoners to common prisoners were constantly beaten, tortured and dehumanize dehumanized for this is very important for the western hemisphere to understand that we cannot continue to tolerate this. >> thank you francisco marquez. >> next, donald trump says he is going to cut taxes, but spend more on infrastructure, more on the military and he won't cut up penny from entitlement. too me, that's a recipe for wild inflation because where will they get the money to pay for all ofç that?
what do you do if you live in a place where your money is certainly worth almost nothing? every day because of wild inflation, it's worth even less. here is a billion dollar bill from zimbabwe. this bill is a 100 trillion-dollar bill. it isn't even worth a penny today. venezuelans don't yet have currency that is that worthless, but there money shrinks in value every hour. what do some people do to survive? they use big coin. it's transferred from person to person b of the net. it's as simple as sending an email. you can purchase anything with big.
i get it, this is complicated, how how can i explain this abstract currency. let's turn to big coin girl ♪ ♪ ♪ >> what? that video was made by one of my producers before i hired her. she worked for the new york big coin center. that is naomi rock while. >> that is not the cheesiest big coin video i've made, actually. >> before we talk about that, connect this to hyperinflation in venezuela. let's go to reason magazine who reported that they went to latin america to observe how people use big going to survive. >> there is a growing community of venezuelans were using big .2 buy food from amazon.com and walmart. how do they get it? there are all these import ban.
>> there is a whole industry of career services in miami that basically you have your amazon package ship to their warehouse in miami and they bring it over by vote or plane and delivered to your door. >> and bribed the police? >> they are expert at eating the goods through venezuelan customs. it's very doable. there are many firms during the. >> okay naomi, big coin, what is a? >> it's a currency that currency that the government can't control. it's an credibly valuable, especially those inç venezuela who have a dictatorial regime. i think a lot of americans dismiss it because we don't have as much corruption in our government. >> though i must say, i bought some and it's my best investment. it's gone up in up in value from $100-$700. >> and i bet you wish that you bought more. >> that's the point. in the us, the the point. in the u.s., the people like you
are the two of us that will by big coin and be interested in it but in venezuela they are it because it's practical, it's putting food in their cabinets and one reason it's practical is they can mind their own big coins because of another stupid government subsidy. >> they are turning socialism against itself which is mining for big point is a process. in fact when you turn your electricity into currency and here you might not make much money at all doing that because electricity is expensive. in venezuela, the government doesn't charge for electricity so what these minors have discovered is if you buy from china off a special computer you can hide it in your bedroom. it's a most like a money meant. it's just generating this currency that you can then take and actually buy real things. >> they are running rapid
computation. >> in america because we have real prices in my not be affordable for people. >> in venezuela is easy. >> naomi, you say compared to these, big coin is a way to escape government. what you mean. >> definitely. big coin isn't controlled by government at all. you're able to skirt regulations. in america, you see people using big coin on the black market because they can escape regulation. you see see them buying drugs. in venezuela, these people are escaping regulation but they're black market consists of groceries and basic medicine and things for their survival. >> it's currency that runs on the internet. it doesn't run through the bank or your credit card company. that's how government controls currency, through the banking system. with big coin, you don't need the traditional financial system. it's almost in pop impossible to stop. >> right now you see the venezuelan government who put a cap on the amount of money people can access from their own bank account. that's their own money. >> which they can withdrawal a day. >> exactly. they can only access $5. if you have your money and big
i let my mistakes kind of take over my life. i was point-five credits away from completing high school and i didn't do it. angela: i got pregnant and i was the main one working so, i did what i had to do to survive. jocelyn: sentía que la escuela no era para mí. karim: most of my family they never graduated high school or even let alone go to college so i'm trying to break that barrier. jackie: my family never stopped pushing for me to be better because they knew what i could become and who i could become as a person. karim: everyday after work i went straight to school, studied hard, and it paid off. jocelyn: sentía como que si quiero cambiar el mundo tengo que cambiara mi primero. group: surprise! surprise! surprise! angela: i could not have gotten my diploma without my family. jocelyn: mi consejera, ella fue lo máximo
para mí porque me ayudó mucho con todo. jackie: i've been given an opportunity and i'm just thankful for it. angela: yeah it's hard, but keep on going and keep on trying. karim: the high school diploma has just added to the confidence and now i feel unstoppable. narrator: find free adult education classes near you at finishyourdiploma.org. ♪music
been here for over 12 hours.ç >> socialism creates shortages, it's no secret. socialistic dictators try to keep it secret. that bbc reporter was ordered to delete his footage, but, but he got some of it out. socialism keeps failing. i assumed americans would understand that once the soviet union collapsed and once help people stop poverty in cuba and chang cuba and cambodia and so many areas i have tried socialism. also once they saw how china and vietnam prospered by opening up their markets. >> the evidence is clear. socialism fails, and yet, here in america, people, people clamor for more of it. >> this election, many, many voters said they felt the burn
and wanted socialism sanders style, free stuff, government control of banks, housing, wages, but america has its own track record of government taking control of things and making them worse. politician said government should be in charge of taking care of veterans. what happened? >> one va facility after another let veterans languish on waiting lists waiting for care. >> 1000 veterans may have died because of malpractice. >> people to get better care under government, it was rationed and people died waiting for care. politician said government must run public school. but government run schools are lousy. we spend more on education the most any other country and yet student performance is below average. now, president-elect trump once betsy devised to be his education secretary. she support school choice. that enrages america's socialist. progressives. >> this is not a good up appointment. >> she is a large proponent of for-profit institutions.
>> for-profit schools are public schools? is your supermarket less public than your kids school? >> the support for charter school, those are public schools too, but the teachers unions and the education establishment want total government control. they call her public school enemy number one. this means all over the web. >> i have no experience, but i donated one a million to trump's campaign. he makes her sound. she has no education degree, no teaching experience. she never attended public school. she didn't put her own kids in public school. while, except all of those things are also true for this guy, remember him, president obama's pick for the role. lots of successful people avoid government run schools. maybe that's why they're successful. this meme also says she invested
$200 million of her own money, it doesn't say that, in christian school. why is this a bad thing? helping kids get an education it's one of the better things donald trump has done. we need to fight the reform, our unsustainable socialist institutionç. look, america is not venezuela. were not that socialist yet, but were on the road. it's freedom that made america prosperous. freedom must be reinvented every generation. he was right. freedom isn't natural. it makes some people uncomfortable. we need to explain its people and fight for it. this show has tried to do that and i will keep doing it, but not on this show anymore. this is our second to last*full show. i will continue i will continue on at fox, but the final new at
engine episode of the stossel show will be next week. please tune in and i will explain a new project i'll be launching. thanks for watching tonight and for the past seven years. until next week, good night. of course at home we appreciate you watching every night. keep in mind mind, lou dobbs, two hours of lou tonight. lou: good evening everybody. tonight is the president-elect continues his thank you tour of the states that helped him win the white house donald trumps space is growing increasingly restive as mr. trump nominates and prepares to nominate establishment figures and open borders advocates who represent the very philosophy he campaigned against for 16 months. in fact trump may be trying to fill the swamp before he drained it. moments ago be learned that mcdaniel is expected to be the president-