base, fox business, i am in for lou, my good friend lou. 7:00 to 9:00, it is a special two-hour extravaganza! and i am very happy to say, lou is coming back on monday. we're going to talk about that more tonight. congrats lou, we can't wait to see you, liz. liz: trish, exactly at this time yesterday, you handed us a decent-point gain here and that's what we see today, but we've just lost a good chunk of it. you know, exactly at this time yesterday, we lost all of it, and it turned out to be a nearly 500 point final hour fall. the nasdaq has gone from being up 60 points earlier to now negative 9. are we going to see a repeat of wednesday's reversal? it has a course of expert screenings that robots are firmly in charge of wall street. if they now have the keys to the kingdom, does the entire system need a stress test to prepare for disaster?

we have set up a high-frequency trading bull and bear to battle it all out. as the president spends the day focusing on school safety following last week's shooting at parkland high school in florida, blake burman grills the president's economic adviser about the administration's myth on that promised 4% growth. blake will join us and you're going to see how it all went down. amazon accused of corporate welfare for holding contest to get the best deal from communities across the nation in search for a second headquarters. hillary vaughn live on the billionaire brothers who have actually taken corporate welfares themselves and why they're accusing amazon now. and did you see this? kylie crushes a stock with a single tweet. kylie jenner puts out a tweet about aump and try to take it back because it was negative. the stocks the kardashian-jenner tweet sent

stocks snapping into a nose die. less than an hour to the closing bell, investors are not happy about that. let's start the "countdown." . liz: breaking news, the navy's nuclear submarine base in banger, washington is closed after a potential threat. we wanted to tell you that suspicious items were found in a vehicle near a gate earlier this morning, we're going to keep our eyes on the situation as you see, this is a live picture from banger, washington's komo television station. not a lot of activity at the moment but we do see some vehicles there that are obviously looking into the situation. we'll get more to you as soon as we find out more. let us go to wall street. i'm watching the dow, up 161, could this be another looped loop for the markets? upside right now but 24 hours ago it was a crushing sell-off that happened right during this hour.

stocks right now are on track to sort of snap that two day losing streak but the ten-year treasury yield which had jumped just before the complete reversal yesterday, are now a bit lower from yesterday. yesterday they had been at 2.95%, now we're at 2.92% for the 10-year yield. i would like to remind you, about an hour ago we looked at it, at 2.91. we're climbing a steep here. we're watching this closely. we have a few jitters with the markets, you can see that with gold that is flat. that's not a good place to look to see anything happening. it's the nasdaq that has pretty much lost most of the gains. in fact all of the 60-point gains are down 13 points. will the dow and s&p follow? we're watching it. need to get to snap, snap's market cap, the parent of snapchat disappearing faster than snapchat stories themselves, thanks to a single tweet last night from this gal

on your screen. this is kylie jenner. she's a social media giant, and she hit the social media company which has lost a stunning 1.5 billion in market value after kylie, a celebrity and social media maven with 24 million twitter followers put out this tweet -- now look lower, it says 253,900+ "like"s on that. investors hate it. okay? the stock is now down 7.63%, it opened completely trashed down 7 pshgs you see that's accelerating. the youngest kardashian sister later walking back her comment. she must have heard from somebody saying, quote -- okay. that obviously has done nothing, folks, down 7.75. a buck 43.

the stock at $17.20 not keeping up with the kardashians, and the only person happy about this might be evan spiegel, the ceo because earlier there was news that people found out how much he made last year, 638 million, that was his whole payout. problem is this is a stock that is way off its 52-week high of $29. we're at $17.22 right now. one stock blooming at this hour, the parent of outback restaurants, blooming brands hitting a three-year high after fourth quarter revenues and earning topped analysts' estimates. things are just right in the outback. we're watching that, as most of the wall street area is preoccupied with the crazy intra-day market swings that always seem to come in this hour. the head of the world's largest hedge fund says we may have a much bigger problem on our hands. sending out yet another warning

flare. this is the second in 2 1/2 weeks saying the u.s. is in a prebubble phase, and that there's now a 70% chance of a u.s. recession in the next year or two. before 2020. he says the economy will stumble into a recession heading into the 2020 presidential election. this is coming from a guy who just a month ago said investors would, quote, feel pretty stupid if they were holding onto cash the market's been performing so well. so now ray dalio started reversing two weeks ago and put a number on it. the 70% chance of recession, that's a bold call, folks, the last time we had recession, americans saw trillions wiped out in household wealth and globally multitrillion. is the market too focused on the day to day move like we saw yesterday and missing the bigger threat lurking ahead or is this a big fear scandal.

phil flynn, matt cheslock, and how do you stand on this in the highs and lows in the market? >> you have to get used to that. yesterday's reaction to the fed minutes are lower, kind of scary as far as a trader goes. today market action higher based on earnings which is where it should be. i think that's what we're going to focus on individual stocks leading the market higher. today it's energy. liz: matt, i'm looking, this is important for me to point out to our viewers. we had been up 358 points earlier today. now up 154. we're not seeing these precipitous drops like we saw yesterday exactly at this time except that the nasdaq has wiped out all gains for the day. what is that about, do you think? >> i think, today it's certainly a bit of rotation, lot of technology names that performed well earlier in the week into the energy names, that's why you're seeing the dow up and the nasdaq

technology index down. liz: phil flynn, give me your sense of what's going on? >> i think we're through a period of indecision and inconsolidation. we had our 10% correction in the stock market, and now the market's trying to decide whether we're going to go higher or lower, and really haven't gone anywhere? we've seen a lot of fluctuation day to day but the market is holding ground. to me, it's a very, very positive sign. you know, and as far as ray dalio's call that we may go in a recession in two years, that's like trying predict the weather in two years. we might get cold next week or a year down the road. we're overdue for a slowdown in the economy and after a long cycle. it's not the end of the world if we get a slight recession, a normal part of the business cycle. if you look at energy inventory number today, we're not anywhere close to a recession. we have smoking demand in the u.s., smoking demand globally. if oil inventories were really

a predictor of the future economy, things are looking really strong and getting stronger. liz: we saw a surprise draw of 1.6 million barrels luke, when the expectation was a build of 1.8 million barrels and you look at energy, there is a story in the energy world, chesapeake, jumping 20% right now. this is a big energy company because, by the way, it's a $3 stock, keep that in mind. a 55-cent gain. because they cut costs? i don't know, do you get tricked by that? they have 10 billion in debt. >> yeah, i think that chesapeake number, though things are looking better it's a short squeeze on the way up because people are so negative on it. and as far as oil, i think that a lot of the gains in oil have been because opec cutback and also because of the weaker dollar, right? so i'm just not that positive on oil and global demand, looking forward for the rest of the year, but i'm worried about what's happening in the oil

markets as far as geopolitical. russia has a base in syria. we talked about that two years ago, we said quietly the russians have a base of operations in syria. the saudis want higher oil prices, the russians do, the iranians do, and when everybody walks drama in the oil markets, i don't like it, i don't want to be short, i don't want to have short cards in oil, there could be action going on and could spike oil prices. >> great points all, guys, i would note we're seeing some dropping right now in the dow. we're still up about 124 points but i'm going to remind you throughout, this is a big cut of more than 100 points already. we're watching it closely. matt, phil, luke, see you next time. we need to go to the white house, the administration is in defense mode right now. this as kevin hassett, the co-chair of the council of economic advisers making this appearance in the last hour at the white house press briefing, defending the president's economic report which came out

yesterday. we talked to you about that. that said we'll see growth in the future of anywhere between 2 and 4% which was a broad swath. president trump said definitely 3% maybe even 4%. meanwhile, calls for new gun control laws continue to spread nationwide or at least just stopping the sale of ar-15's. the president holding another listening session today on school safety, making bold statements how teachers should be armed. fox business' blake burman just left the briefing room. interesting give and take with kevin hassett on drilling down where is the growth that we're expecting. reporter: you saw the chart yesterday ten years out that they predicted gdp, 2 or 3% and the middle window portion and you get the 3% number. the president had campaigned, though, as you very well remembered and talked about since not just 3% gdp, 3, 4,

maybe even 5% gdp. i asked the head of the cea kevin hassett what is it with the 3% projection? he made a multilayered argument saying listen, it is better than the obama years, moving ahead of that, but also he said when you get a gdp number for the course of a year, it's for ratings, one might have a 2 in front of it, one might have a 4 in front of it, mix it together you get the 3% number, in line with the report that have been put out for decades for the prior decades. either way, it's somewhat fair to say, liz, either dialed back expectations or reality check from the top economic adviser who at least wants to put a conservative face on it in case they end up exceeding expectations and going above that 3% level. we'll see. as far as the story at the white house, it is, of course the focus, the national conversation on how to keep schools safe?

president trump hosting yet another listening session today. this time with state and local officials, and the president made clear he is very open to the idea of having some teachers, teachers that he says are adept at having firearms within schools. listen. >> what i'd recommend doing is the people that do carry, we give them a bonus, we give them a little bit of a bonus, so practically for free, you have now made the school into a hardened target. we need to let people know, you come into our schools, you are going to be dead, and it's going to be fast. reporter: the white house press secretary raj shah, the president is open to all options on the conversations shut the door on a ban on assault weapons. they don't want to ban an entire class of weapons for everyone, but ban certain weapons for certain kinds of people. the white house walked back comments that the president made in that listening session in which he said he is firmly

against what is known as the active shooter drill which so many schools do in order to prepare for shootings. raj shah, the deputy press secretary said heould like to call it a safety drill and takes issue witthe term, liz? liz: thank you very much. let's get to the dow component that helped the u.s. win world war ii. it's about to lose the war to keep its own company from breaking up. with the closing bell ringing in 46 minutes. it's united technologies. utx. it is right there, very close to being on top of the dow, there it is. in the lead position, it's up 4 bucks to $133.35. that's for the second day in a row seeing gains after ceo revealed the parent of pratt & whitney jet engines and otis elevators is exploring a breakup into three separate businesses, plans to officially announce a decision on this by the end of the year. >> 3, 2, 1 --

[cheers] . liz: not government owned, that's spacex's falcon 9 blasting off from vandenberg air force base in california. elon musk's space company launching two of its own test satellites today for the very first time. they're the first part of spacex's plan to string together a network of satellites that would bring high-speed internet to the entire planet. once again, elon musk thinking big. at the other business, tesla leading the nasdaq up 3.5% announcing it's taking orders for model 3 electric car, from first time reservation holders waiting patiently. tesla now trading with volume of 5.8 million shares. up next, two violent market moves, not seen in more than a year, so now we've got two in a month? 1500 point move on february

5th. you're seeing it right now, was the whopper, algorithnick or computerized trading blamed? the robots are running wall street, can you the individual trader beat them? our panel of high-frequency traders, bull and bear, battle it out.

i want you to pick a new truck for your mom or dad, knowing that they could possibly pass it down to you one day. cool. but before you decide, you should know that chevy silverado's are the most dependable, longest lasting full-size pickups on the road. which means that ford f-150s are not. (laughs) which truck would you pick? the chevy. the chevy. the chevy. there you go. boom. that was obvious. plus it looks cooler. no doubt about it. now they know what to get me. (laughs)

when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

. liz: i hate to keep bringing up yesterday, but 24 hours ago, we witnessed what's on the screen. the dow suddenly dropping nearly 500 points, wasn't just the dow, all the major averages gave up big gains after the 2:00 p.m. release of the fed minutes january meeting, sent treasury yields to a fresh four-year high which triggered, well, we asked one of the traders ira epstein what is causing it, he said this. >> high-frequency trading, hft, as it comes out, you stand in front of a train, that's what happens, that type of money comes into the market. liz: there's a huge battle whether he's right. we're going to report, you decide. the company that pioneered high-speed computerized trading in the entire nation of india, and joe is the author of broken

markets, he says hf trading is destroying investor confidence. i'm going to guess, joe, that you agree with what ira epstein said, how do you know? >> this has been going on for a while. thanks for having me on. we wrote the book in 2012, what most investors need to understand today's markets are different. we don't have the specialist and market makers of yesteryear, we have electronic market makers, supplying liquidity, trade faring spread throughout the day and times during volatility like the past few days where they could exacerbate the volatility and go in the same direction, let's say, not adding that liquidity that we're expecting, and i think that's what the guest yesterday was mentioning. liz: fox business translator said they effectuate the trades over short periods of time. we're talking one millionth of a second, way faster than individual investor can even press a button. how does it work?

this is your company doing these fast trades. >> well, you know, it's like any other trade. you have a model, and especially for the quantitative systematic trading, you use large amounts of data to come up with a model and using that model to trade. if you're a liquidity provider. liz: do you understand the role, do you agree that high-frequency trading takes a role here. in the year 2000, high-frequency trades were 10% of the equity market. now, the numbers only go to 2009. they jump to 164% to 73% of all trades. >> yeah, and i think this is a natural sort of ball of technology rolling forward, like now all are ruled by

algorithms. liz: revolution. >> what movies we watch to what book we read is driven by algorithms, this is better technology making markets more efficient. liz: joe billionaire, mark cuban put out a tweet, he tagged you, he seems to agree, he's concerned about. this we can put the tweet up on the screen. and by the way, he said algorithmic's trading is a significant threat to our country's well-being, he calls on gary cohn and steven mnuchin to conduct a market stress test to see if we can handle that. what do you say about that? >> i think mark is an extremely astute observer of today's modern market structure. he's on that. and the firm is doing great things and proprietary traders. liz: they're not breaking the law. >> when you're a proprietary trader, you're going to trade what's available. the problems started at the

stock exchange level. they were the once, the new york stock exchange, nasdaq, that gave out the ability for speed trading. in other words, co location, proprieta proprietary data feeds and rebates aid the in the fragmented market that we have. there are things we can do to get diversity into the limit order books why do we plunge down so fast? there are no limit orders, no retail or institutional bias because they are afraid they're going to get picked off all day. bring the guys back in. liz: can you do that and deal with proprietary experience? really quick? >> i think we should bring more into the market, we should bring in everyone who is afraid of the market. there is no reason to be afraid. you should be in the market. liz: thank you very much, we'll be right back. dow is up 211. holding onto gains.

today, the new new york is ready for take-off. we're invested in creating the world's first

state-of-the-art drone testing facility in central new york and the mohawk valley, which marks the start of our nation's first 50-mile unmanned flight corridor. and allows us to attract the world's top drone talent. all across new york state, we're building the new new york. to grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd.ny.gov. to grow your business with us in new york state, [fbi agent] you're a brave man, your testimony will save lives. mr. stevens? this is your new name. this is your new house. and a perfectly inconspicuous suv. you must become invisible. [hero] i'll take my chances. today's senior living communities have never been better,

with amazing amenities like movie theaters, exercise rooms and swimming pools, public cafes, bars and bistros even pet care services. and there's never been an easier way to get great advice. a place for mom is a free service that pairs you with a local advisor to help you sort through your options and find a perfect place. a place for mom. you know your family we know senior living. together we'll make the right choice.

the entire community came whtogether as a whole.t, ♪ it was such an overwhelming response to help others. no one thought that they were going to do this before it happened and everyone just did it. i think that's the way that human nature should be looked at. ♪ i'll stand by you. ♪ i'll stand by you. ♪ won't let nobody hurt you. ♪ i'll stand by you.

. liz: roll that welcome carpet right back up. a group funded by the conservative billionaire koch brothers is begging states not to give amazon tax incentives in a bid to get that company to build second headquarters in their town. it's akin to robbing peter to pay paul even though the koch's own companies have taken 100 million in incentives from half a dozen states. hillary vaughn is looking into this. it looks hypocritical, what's the reasoning behind amazon? reporter: saying it's about corporate welfare. the ads targeting social media through the week funded by the koch industries, you mentioned themselves have benefitted from a total of $421 million in state and local subsidies, are bankrolling this campaign, but not often that you see a conservative organization rallying against tax cuts for businesses, but i talked with dave barnes, the director of

policy generation opportunity who says this deal is different. >> we're looking at, you know, governments which are making special deals with one of the largest businesses on earth and aren't telling their constituents about it, 15 of the 20 different deals have not been made opinion. you have these governors and mayors who are just promising corporate welfare to a giant company without giving the taxpayers any information about what they're doing. reporter: the rates for amazon second headquarters is on. some finalists are coming out with offers, newark, new jersey offering $7 million in tax benefits. chicago 2.2 billion. amazon isn't commenting on the ad. the stock did top $1500 for the very first time and it's close to it right now. liz? liz: very interesting that the kochs themselves have taken 400 million and yet it's different this time with amazon. i get it, you got to have transparency.

watching it, thank you. amazon says 50,000 jobs to whichever area gets it. closing bell 30 minutes away, the dow up 172 but the nasdaq can't make it, if it closes down, that will be the longest four-day losing streak since 2016. charlie gasparino is about to break a story next. stay tuned. copd makes it hard to breathe. so to breathe better, i go with anoro. ♪go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way" with anoro. ♪go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators, that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma . it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers

for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems. these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. ask your doctor about anoro. ♪go your own way get your first prescription free at anoro.com.

but i'm not standing still... and with godaddy,

i've made my ideas real. ♪ i made my own way, now it's time to make yours. ♪ everything is working, just like it should ♪

. liz: we have this breaking news, we're continuing to watch snap stock there. has been no recovery at all. the stock began tanking at the open today after kylie jenner, yes, that kylie jenner, tweeted late last night, is it just me? do you even look at snapchat anymore? there's a new format. this is so sad.

the stock has lost 7.25%. 1.5 billion because of that tweet. the only other piece of news, charlie was that evan spiegel, the ceo, had compensation last year that was just revealed of more than $600 million at the very time that the stock itself has been chopped more than in half since ipo. >> this suggests to me, though, listen, i tell people watch out with stocks like, this that there's an algorithm built into trade off the negative, anything that's negative about it, but there's clearly an algorithm that if somebody comes out, some analyst, she's not really an analyst, but if someone comes out and says something -- liz: isn't it frightening that a single opinion has just lost a lot of people money? by the way, she tried to hedge it, she came back, somebody must have said something, she tried to say, oh, ha-ha, love

you snapchat. you are my number one love. >> how old is she, this kid? liz: she's 20. as my son told me, kylie is the most successful kardashian, and i said why? the 13-year-old boy said because she has a lip kit. she does this cosmetics company that is absolutely huge. could you call it unknown manipulation of a stock? >> listen, if she was short -- i can't imagine she was smart enough to go short or dumb enough to go short. i can't imagine she knows what a short sale here. there is an algorithm when somebody puts in a negative comment that registered -- liz: stock tweets does look at the -- i'm not saying it's them. >> that's how the algorithms kick in. believe it or not, i have 80,000 crummy followers, right?

they are not crummy, they're good. enough to move a stock because some of the followers are plugged into algorithms that move a stock. so if i talk about twitter or something, i can move twitter, you know? or if we report something because there are enough algorithms that are tapped into my twitter feed. that's how it goes. she probably has algorithm tapped into her or taps into a tweet that gets retweeted a certain amount of times. you have seen the market? well off the highs. liz: correct. we've been pointing that out. >> interesting thing about kevin hassett, one of the top economic advisers, his revised downward gdp estimate, i think it's scary. i mean, this is where -- liz: and by the way, peter schiff is coming on in just a minute. scary, he's terrified by this. >> what did he say exactly. liz: let's listen, blake asked him a question and here's what

he said. >> as for why we didn't go to 4 or 5% growth. it is extremely transparent week get 2.2% baseline growth out of the best times in modern literature and a chapter of the president's policy objectives that gets up to 3.2%, 3% on average over 10 years, and that's all based on very hard science. we have more than 50 pages of economic references. if the numbers led us to 5%, we would have said 5%. >>h the word salad. my boss said ve, myoss president trump -- liz: hold on, his boss said 6% in december, i'm looking right now. >> all the tax cuts and the deregulation would give me 6%, and we're saying, no, based on

our models, we're going to 3 or 2. liz: so in december of just last year. >> right. liz: president trump defied the data and promised 6% gdp growth. liz: listen, donald trump -- exaggerates a lot of stuff. but let's give him the benefit of the doubt. >> his followers believe it. liz: give him the benefit of the doubt and he said four. >> okay. he said four, you have the revised, official estimate revised hour. bigger deficits, that means, if you don't get the 3+% growth. higher interest rates, much higher, generally money flows into bonds and not stocks. liz: peter schiff is going to agree with and you more in just a second. it's the fear factor from what charlie and kevin hassett just said, and it's the closing bell ringing in 20 minutes. still at the 173. i remind you we had been up

300+. jerome powell and company at the central bank holding all the cards, will the next move on rates spook investors into a horror show. peter schiff says yes, how afraid should you or should you not be? next. jardiance is the only type 2 diabetes pill proven to both significantly reduce the chance of dying from a cardiovascular event in adults who have type 2 diabetes and heart disease... ...and lower your a1c. wow. jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration. this may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, or lightheaded, or weak upon standing. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal. symptoms include nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, and trouble breathing. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away

if you have symptoms of ketoacidosis or an allergic reaction. symptoms of an allergic reaction include rash, swelling, and difficulty breathing or swallowing. do not take jardiance if you are on dialysis or have severe kidney problems. other side effects are sudden kidney problems, genital yeast infections, increased bad cholesterol, and urinary tract infections, which may be serious. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. what do you think? i think it's time to think about jardiance. ask your doctor about jardiance. and get to the heart of what matters. today's senior living communities have never been better, with amazing amenities like movie theaters, exercise rooms and swimming pools, public cafes, bars and bistros even pet care services. and there's never been an easier way to get great advice. a place for mom is a free service that pairs you with a local advisor to help you sort through your options and find a perfect place. a place for mom. you know your family we know senior living.

together we'll make the right choice. retail. under pressure like never before. and its connected technology that's moving companies forward fast. e-commerce. real time inventory. virtual changing rooms. that's why retailers rely on comcast business to deliver consistent network speed across multiple locations. every corporate office, warehouse and store near or far covered. leaving every competitor, threat and challenge outmaneuvered. comcast business outmaneuver. ♪ show me the olympic winter games ♪ leaving every competitor, threat and challenge outmaneuvered.

♪ like i've never seen before. ♪ ♪ xfinity x1, yeah, i always know the scor♪. ♪ triple corks in 4k... lookin' so sick. ♪ ♪ stream live on every screen, every win, every trick. ♪ ♪ 2000 hours of coverage, get your mind blown. ♪ 50 olympic channels, yup, you're in the zone. ♪ ♪ and if there's something that you want to see, ♪ pick up that voice remote and just say "show me..." ♪ experience nbcuniversal's coverage of the olympic winter games like never before with xfinity. proud partner of team usa.

. liz: does the 10-year treasury yield hold the leash of the stock market in we saw that yesterday. we have the yield off the highs of yesterday, at 2.92%, inching toward 3%, but according to peter schiff, it may blow the top off that and even touch 4% this year, possibly even higher and that concerns him, and he says it should concern you, he's euro pacific capital

president. peter, there are a lot of people whose eyes start to glaze over when they hear about the 10-year yield. why does that present a harbinger of horrible things to come? >> and it's not just the 10 year, go all the way out to the 30-year, rates are going a lot higher. you have to remember the way the federal reserve was able to prop up the market and the economy is by keeping interest rates artificially low, and they succeeded in doing that for a long time. but now the markets are going to raise interest rates back to where they should be, and they should be a lot higher because we have record debt, record budget deficits coming, record trade deficits, a 10-year low in savings rate. we have to borrow tremendous amounts of money and the world is not going to lend it to us at ridiculously low interest rates, rates are going to normalize quickly. liz: show you the long-term 10-year yield going back ten years, you can see where it was ten years ago and you can see where it is now, and it's kind of heading back to what we saw,

even higher than where we were in 2008. that would make sense, wouldn't it? what does this number engender so much fear? >> it's going to go higher. we have more than twice the debt than 2008. remember, when we were doing trillion dollar deficits under obama, the fed was doing a trillion dollars a year in qe, so now the fed is doing no qe and threatening to shrink balance sheet which means the treasury is going to have to sell extra bonds to pay off the fed. so the amount of debt that we're going to be selling is unprecedented, so supply is going off the charts, so price rates have to go up. and markets don't understand exactly how high rates are going to go. liz: make us understand. how bad could it eventually get? let's look at the debt clock. we know that the debt has gone up and could possibly hit a full 21 trillion this year, and

listen, the president did criticize the national debt, i recall, which he was running, yet now it's gotten higher. i think it's adding like $45 per second. >> he criticized a lot of things rightly when he was running, now embracing everything he criticized, including the big fat ugly stock market bubble. and i believe that bubble popped, i believe that we're now in a bear market, it's not a correction, unless the fed decides to blow more air into it, which is still what i believe is going to happen. liz: more qe. >> yeah, qe 4 is coming. if you think that the economy is going to grow at 3%, which i doubt. i think it's going to be hard to hit 2, but if it does 3, that's the real rate, the nominal rate would have to be 5 if you think inflation is just 2%, that would imply a 10-year yield of at least 5%, that's in normal times. >> let me speak if president trump were here he would say the tax cut will pay for itself, the 1.5 trillion and

stimulate the economy. i still don't understand, though, why suddenly they're predicting 2 to 4% growth and yet if you look at atlanta fed, they're really scaling back their prediction. i believe just a few days ago at the beginning of february, they pretty much had it at 5.4%. february 1, and by february 16. it's 3.2%. >> yeah, and they're going a lot lower than that. liz: what do they see? >> i don't know what they were smoking when they put up 5.4. at least now they're thinking a little more clearly. but they're still too high. this is a limbo. they're going to keep lowering that bar as we get closer and closer to the -- liz: what are you at euro pacific doing to help your clients? >> i believe that the end game is qe 4. i think the fed is going to sacrifice the dollar to prop up the stock market, to prop up the economy. liz: are you shorting the dollar, what are you doing? >> of course, the dollar now is

on pace for worst year in 30 years, last year the biggest drop in 14. i'm buying foreign stocks, commodity stocks, gold stocks, all this is bullish for gold and bearish for the dollar. the mainstream is scratching their heads, they don't know why yields are rising and the dollar is falling, because of a loss of confidence in the fed. because of rising inflation, rates are not rising for the right reason, for the wrong reason, and trump is wrong, you don't stimulate the economy by cutting taxes, you stimulate the economy by shrinking government. liz: you voted for president trump, correct? >> well, you got to remember my choices, right? it was trump or it was hillary clinton. so he wasn't my pick for the mie, i was a rand paul supporter. but my point i'm trying to make, liz, you stimulate the economy by making government smaller. liz: well, that's not happening, so we have to work with the landscape we have ahead of us and you have to tell our viewers right now the

number one thing they should do with their portfolio. >> they should send it to me to manage it at euro pacific capital. liz: oh, my god. short of that. short of that! [laughter]. >> they got to get out of the u.s. stock market, get out of the u.s. bond market. liz: okay, okay, and go where? >> there's a lot of places that you can go. there are other countries that are not as reckless and irresponsible, they have fewer regulations, lower taxes, trade surpluses, governments that live within their means, and you got to get into gold stocks, gold is going to go ballistic when the markets figure out what i already know. >> peter schiff of euro pacific. while peter was talking, the s&p went negative. it's slightly positive at the moment. continue to look at markets, folks, the dow jones industrials is now lower by 200 points from where we were, we're still up 178 but if you look at this number we've lost the 25,000 threshold. at 24,988.

we'll ask the chart man himself, gary b. on "countdown," great to see him back on whether he's a bull or a bear?

. . the things we do rising before dawn. sweating it out. tough to do it all. but we can always find time to listen to great thinkers and explorers whose stories take us places our hamstrings can't. all we have to do is listen. download audible to start listening.

liz. breaking news. we can confirm what we told you months ago. intel did not inform u.s. cybersecurity officials of the so-called, meltdown in specter chips security flaws until it was leaked to the public. according to letters sent by tech companies to lawmakers today. we need to get to the new york stock exchange. you know, intel had gotten really hit during this whole issue. >> that is absolutely right. a little crazy here at the end of the day. you called this, liz. until they were leaked to the public that was six months after

alphabet notified the chipmaker of the problem. and that is according to the letter as you say by tech companies sent to law make greg walled enin particular. this is, this is this creates national security problems, right? national security implications if there are problems with this chip. here is what intel had to say i'm quoting no. indication any of these vulnerabilities were exploited by any malicious actors. no indication any of these vulnerabilities were exploited by malicious actors. this is typical in the industry, 90 days that companies typically have to make a fix on these kind of problems. that is what usually happens. but i have to tell, this is surprising. you called this for a long time. want to look at chip-makers overall. there is sort of a mix here. nvidia, amd, advanced micro devices up. look at intel, down almost half

a percent and qualcomm down as well. so, you know this, is on a day we're seeing nasdaq come down and it hasn't done that, fourth down day in a row. longest losing streak in 15 months what is setting up here. big day in the markets. back to you. melissa: by the way, folks, the issue when these kind of chip flaws and things happen you're supposed to notify something called cert. computer emergency readiness team. funded by the government. they are supposed to know so they deal with bad actors until they come in. they did not find out until the public did. not good. bulls versus bears. whose market is it? gary b. of the kadena group. great to see you. >> great to see you, liz. liz: have you made any money since i last saw you? >> my wife always asks me that question for some reason. liz: can you pay the credit card bill. gary b., we've seen a two days

you could call it volatility, even if the vix does not reflect that. we have lost 200 points off the dow. we're still up 175. >> exactly. >> how do you invest in these kinds of moves? >> you ignore it. this is shaking out period. huge 1000 down days if you will. this is shakeout. i think the economy is in great shape. we're on firm footing. if you're longer term than me. you don't need the kids college money tomorrow, you pick a great stock with very few competitors. you buy. don't worry about it. liz: what are the great stocks in your opinion. >> number one is amazon. people say it is overvalued. who can compete with amazon? walmart tried. amazon has the distribution senters. they're only ones that can deliver overnight. liz: what is the pe?

550? >> does it matter? what do they charge for amazon prime. they don't even know. you use amazon prime. liz: i do and i don't. i don't know. what besides amazon 1000-dollar stock. >> ups and fedex, when you ship something, you say i will not use one of those two. i will use somebody else. no. you put your package together, send it via fedex or ups. they have no defense. liz: our ups people fabulous in our neighborhood. >> what about the fedex people? liz: good too. much more personalized. honestly ups people saved life of a woman in our neighborhood because they knocked on the door. >> they're a great union story. very few of those out there. i'm not a big union person. they're a great union story. hats off to them. liz: good for that. gary b. don't be a stranger. >> i'm not going to be a stranger. liz: thank you so much.

we finish out with a mixed picture on the choppy trading session. the dow snaps a two-day losing streak. [closing bell rings] the nasdaq ends in ted. we'll see that in november 2016. do it for clamanountwn. it will be a rocking friday. i need you back here tomorrow. cheryl: don't go anywhere. we're watching the markets. father volatile day for your markets. we lost steam into the close but the dow as she mentioned snapping that two-day losing streak. the dow is up 164. settling now. s&p barely turned negative. s&p, nasdaq really the markets to watch. i'm cheryl casone i'm in for melissa francis today. david: great to have you here. i'm david asman. more on big market movers. first here is what is happening at this hour. a commitment to action. president trump sitting down with state and local officials at the white house today, vowing to work on solio