days on fox business from 6:00 to 9:00 a.m. on "mornings with maria" on fox business. that will do it for us right now. thanks for joining me. have a great rest of the weekend. i will see you next time. >> welcome to the "wall street journal" at large. big tech in the crosshairs. are some of the largest companies too big for our good. the "wall street journal" was the first to report the justice department was to begin investigating google or possible violations of its power as a big technology company. and the federal trade commission is looking at an investigation of facebook, amazon and apple.

then monday the house of representatives judiciary committee announced a sweeping review of possible monopoly powers. ways most of striking about these actions is they demonstrate a rare thing in america today. broad partisan agreement on an issue of pressing national importance. the democrats are eager to have action, too. monday nancy pelosi, the house speaker tweeted, unwarranted concentrated economic power in the hand of a few of is dangerous to democracy, especially when digital platforms control content. the era of self-regulation is over. not since the days of the trust-busters of the early 20th century have big

companies faced such scrutiny. anyone who has a smart phone or computer probably uses google, facebook, amazon and others multiple times a day from searching for a good restaurant to searching for cat food. do they abuse the power that they have? what about the control they have over huge quantities of data about our lives? and above all, what needs to be done? i'm joined by the co-founder of two big technology capital firms. he's also author of the book "zucked." he joins me from zan and sphoard, california. d from stanford, california. we know how much influence these

companies have over our lives. is there evidence they are causing us harm? >> there is a lot of evidence. i think we understand that the power of google, facebook and increasingly amazon and microsoft has caused harm to things we know about like elections and democracy. but also public health, privacy, and now the actual competitive framework of the economy. i think there is a big misunderstanding among consumers about the relationship that they have with these companies because we all like the services they offer. the problem is the services have a different role in the business than we realize. we think we are giving these platforms a little bit of data for a valuable service. what's really going on is they are gathering massive amounts of data in other places, by buying it from banks, buying it from credit card processors or

cellular companies. they track is everywhere we go on the web. they have surveillance product like alexa. and they have scan emails and documents. they build virtual voodoo dolls about each of us. and they are using them to do things that are genuinely harmful to consumers and destructive to the fabric of the economy of. somewhat do they do that causes actual harm. >> when we look at facebook, it has been used by foreign span domestic actors in many countries to interfere in democracy. we say the in brexit in the united kingdom. we saw it in the united states and we have seen it in india and brazil. on top of that, you see civil rights violations in the country of myanmar and sri lanka we have

seen massive deaths resulting in hate speech on facebook. and. these are not small things. >> i get that you have all these ways facebook has been used by unscrupulous people to cause damage. ies that anti-trust. anti-trust is usually when a company dominates a company so much it can drive consumers preferences. how is that anti-trust? >> so the answer is that part is not an anti-trust concern. where the issue comes is in the following way. think about artificial intelligence which is the next big thing in technology. google, facebook, m -- microsoft and amazon dominate the

artificial intelligence. they are all working on the core business which is behavioral manipulation. which means all startups trying to do a.i., in the million other categories are competing for a tiny percentage of the people who can do it. and they are having to pay incredibly high prices because of how much the big four are willing to spend on that. >> so that's one example. >> if you look at advertising. the "wall street journal" is harmed every day by the way google and facebook block access to your the' temperature product. we are seeing it in automotive. we are seeing it in electronics. we'll soon see it in financial services. when you said the last time we saw this kind of regulatory

approach was in the beginning of the 20th century with the trust busters. the reason this is happening is these guys are precisely analogous to the trusts of the 1900s. >> google looks as though it will be the subject of a justice department investigation. tell us how google is harming the consumer, whether it's through the way it uses data. they would say look, we have a fabulous service. anything you want to find out in the world, you put it into google and it's free. nobody is damaged by it. >> this is a little bit like a magic trick. they provide incredibly valuable

services. but the part you are looking at is not where the real action is. what google has done is to acquire the data. they get data everywhere else. they have high resolution data voodoo doll. if you are a marketer, let's say you are the "wall street journal." to get to your audience you have to go through google. what do you get? only the stuff google gives. google uses search results to steer outcomes to that which is favorable to google. if one side has perfect information and the other side only has information that the side with perfect information gives them. when you look at google, i would go to their philosophy of management is unlike anything we

have seen. google -- there is a professor at harvard who has written a foundational back to called the age of surveillance capitalism. google is converting all human experience into data to eliminate uncertainty. but it means you are eliminating human choice. >> don't be evil. isn't that what it was supposed to be. >> it's very orwellian. >> what should we do about it? you laid out a good case that they are doing all these damaging things. they have have too much power. should we break them up? >> you need to do two things. anti-trust is half of the solution. i want to use the model of at&t. i want to take their patent for the foal yoas and make them licensable by technology companies. i want to prevent them from

buying anything new. i want them to divest some of the things they own already. i want to use the at&t model relative to long distance to allow new companies with better business models to form giving them free access to users. maybe we break them up eventually. i want to increase competition. and the other side is, i want to ban the commerce of people's consumer data. >> thank you very much indeed for joining us. but coming up next. a former federal anti-trust attorney will join me to explain what the government investigations of big tech will be focused on. my old friend ♪

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>> i'm joined by a former federal trade anti-trust attorney. he's now with a non-profit group making efforts to boost the economy. the big guns are focused, the government's guns are focused on big tech across the board, anti-trust, possibly congress. what's the issue here. normally when we consider anti-trust issues for damage to the consumer, what's the potential damage to the consumer these companies represent? >> the issue is whether these companies have enough power in the marketplace that they can limit competition and that could result in various harm to the country it could stop

entrepreneurship. those are the concerns about these companies. >> they argue they provide valuable services at no direct cost to the consumers. other countries could come in and do the thing they do so they don't threaten. you don't want to prejudge these investigation. but what is your sense about their defense. >> these are important issues that both congress and the agencies need to consider. but to be clear. just because services are cheap doesn't mean there isn't a problem. there could be even if service was free, maybe consumers would get paid or get better services. and i think there is a real issue these particular companies it's just a fact of the marketplace that they have what we would call network effects.

so the more users you have the more valuable our services are. that has an impact on various firms to compete. these are precisely the issues the government should be looking at. >> the fcc looked at google as before and conclude back in 2013, essentially not to take serious action. do you think things have changed in the six years since then that might change. have things changed in a way that could result in a different outcome? >> i think possibly. i think it understanding about how net -- these network effects work. we have a better understanding of that, the way in which the internet interacts with every day consumers and the economy has grown exponentially. things have changed.

significantly, i think since 2013. >> the political climate. one of the more unusual circumstance is where you seem to have bipartisan agreement that something need to be done. >> that's absolutely true. in 2013, arguably the tech industry had a sort glow of a positive glow, and real why it' not a partisan issue but across the isle you see people are -- across the aisle, you have people concerned. >> michael, stay with us. we'll take a short break. in our next segment we'll talk about what might be the outcome and what possible remedies there might be. stay with us. we'll be right back. experience the style, craftsmanship and technology

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>> i'm back with former federal anti-trust attorney michael case. let's look, if the government determines that there is a serious anti-trust problem there and something need to be done, what are some the thing the government could do. we have the precedent of at&t, the anti-trust investigation. the government decided to break up that telecom giant. the government can order a company to be broken up. the government could end up winning a case saying the company need to be broken up. how likely do you think that i? >> just look at the history of

u.s. anti-trust enforcement. there have not been that's breakups of monopolies. it's very powerful but it may not fit all the problems. you need to figure out what the particular problem occurring in the marketplace is, and whether -- ivestiture is the answer. >> what are the alternatives. >> the otherral interpretives are behavioral remedy where you limit how the company can operate. you might require a company if you think the problem results in a company accumulating too much data, gives them the ability to

prevent entry in the long term. you might require that consumers be able to take their data to another company. that might spur competition. or require them not to have certain sorts contracts that control how their suppliers or customers interact with them. >> could they be forced, google and facebook. could there be behavioral remedies that require them to share some of the advertising revenue? >> this is a great question. which lead to the fact there may be issues with how these markets operate that anti-trust can quite solve. so that kind -- the question you would have to know, the answer is, what is it that the company

were doing that was suppressing competition. normally under up much anti-trust law, just because charging a high price because you are a month no his is not a violation. >> there is a feeling many people have that these companies are too big and have too power. is that a strong enough sentiment that could lead the government to force them to change? >> on a political level, i think that is playing a part. on an anti-trust level. what's going to determine the outcome is whether the companies are engaging in activity that suppresses competition be and there is a lot of research out there about the ways in which dominant firms can do that. we just released a report summarizing some of that

literature. >> thank you, michael. i will explain what happened this week across the ocean. a powerful reminder not to forget the sacrifices of those who came befor ♪ limu emu & doug mmm, exactly! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice! but uh, what's up with your partner? oh! we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance because no two people are alike, so... limu gets a little confused when he sees another bird that looks exactly like him. ya... he'll figure it out. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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that rolled back the nazi occupation of europe. the leaders of the nations that led this, the largest amphibious assault in military history, many of them were killed that day and in the weeks and months afterwards. >> these men ran through the fires of hell, moved by a force no weapon could destroy. the fierce patriotism of a free, proud and sovereign people. >> given the advanced age of the few surviving veterans. this may well be the last major commemoration of d-day for those who fought will be directly represented. but even as they fade from this life, the gallantry will never be forgotten. that's it for us this week.

we'll be back next week when we take an in depth look at the 2020 presidential field with donna brazile. >> was he a lifelong hoarder or a shrewd collector? the answer lies inside this salvage yard filled with rusty old cars. >> did you know how many cars grandpa had? >> the locals say it's a worthless eyesore. >> whoo-hoo! >> his grandson calls it an "iron gold mine." [ auctioneer calling ] which is the truth? we're about to find out. >> sold it! [ door creaks ] [ wind howls ] [ thunder rumbles ] [ bird caws ] >> i'm jamie colby, and i'm just driving in to enid, oklahoma, which is about 90 miles north of