stocks are getting hit. oil down again today, sixth straight day now at its lowest price since back in may. again the markets seem to be reading a slowdown in the economy, the rough you know, coming out of this pandemic and one step forward, another step back, openings delayed, restrictions that are increasing be that as it may the demand for precious crude not as much as it was. now to charles payne. hey, charles. charles: neil, wasn't long ago we were talking about 80-dollar oil. remember how that changes? neil: yeah. charles: i'm charles payne. this is making morning any, breaking at this moment, folks, taper tantrum was loud crescendo of wall street whining and goldman dramatically lowered third quarter estimates sighting delta variant and those cases. this is a conundrum for the fed but allows them to keep the

punch bowel out longer. speaking of punch bowls, white house is talking about extending unemployment benefits. i told you so. have no fear. we'll walk you through the scenarios. if you sold in a panic at the open, hear what kenny polcari says to keep you motions in check. the blundering doesn't stop, white house not only sounding insensitive and incompetent. i've been touting brick-and-mortar names, they have been rocket ship stocks. now even amazon is ready to muscle in on the action. in fact all that and much more on "making money". ♪. charles: all right. the markets stumbled hard. you saw it. like we fell through a trap door at the open. it really goes back to the close yesterday. we were down immediately after the close and the futures. let's say the tantrum officially began yesterday.

this morning goldman sachs announced a major revision to the gdp estimates for rest of year 2021. current quarter they see 5 1/2% but prior to today they had modeled for 8 1/2%. the adjustment of course all related to the delta variant, growing restrictions and mandates being implemented to slow the growth. by the way it is not just here but around the world that brings us back to the fed and their delta conundrum. jerome powell and company made it clear there will be no movement on policy until they're confident the covid crisis is contained. higher virus creates more restrictions but not only slows the economy and contributes to supply chain woes which we know is inflationary. so, we know inflation means for fed policy nevertheless, by the way you have additional fiscal stimulus extension of

unemployment benefits and the fed has a conundrum on its hand. james bullard said the society figured out how to live with covid and delta would not be a problem but that shows the difference between a fed president and a gover sus those elected to office. there are signs of rapid slowing in many parts of this economy. the latest economic data this morning, philadelphia fed index missed by a big amount. here is the irony about the goldman gdp adjustment. it throws directly throws cold water on the fed of tapering. i've been seeing early resolve. we always see people buying on weakness and of course it has been working. i want to bring in crescent capital jack ablin, advisers group capital management partner, joanne feeney, the fitz-gerald group, their president keith fitz-gerald.

joanne, let me start with you. do you see the irony here? we looked like we would open down a lot today. seems to me folks started thinking, if this delta variant is indeed impacting the economy enough that goldman would slash its gdp estimates to the degree they did, and by the way we've gotten a ton of high frequency data today, all of it pointing south, maybe this puts the fed off further? >> yeah, charles, good to be with you again. yeah, clearly the fed is data driven and they're going to react to any slowdown in the recovery with continued accommodative policies. they made that pretty clear. so obviously there have been a lot of concerns when the fed is going to taper its bond market purchases and they're going to be very focused on keeping employment moving in the right direction, keeping inflation from getting out of control. some of the increase in inflation weave seen so far is cheaply due to the shortages coming along because of rate of recovery. so no surprise goldman brought down its numbers.

in fact i think they were a little bit too aggressive earlier given how long it will take for the economy to get back up to speed particularly with the supply chain considerations. we expect the fed to be data driven and wait this out. >> so, joanne, you're a portfolio manager. how does someone, of course individual investors have really, i mean i can see at times they feel whipsawed, how do you keep up with the ups and downs, changing narratives? they change every 24 hours it feels? >> it certainly has been volatile. take off my economist hat. put on the portfolio manager hat. with what i hear from clients they're feeling more nervous. they have concentrated positions. if they're in our portfolios we have them well-diversified. the reopening trade tailed off after the delta variant in

india. you can get six flags, other things relatively cheap to be positioned when they start to recover. balanced portfolio is incredibly important. >> i want to pick that up, go to my friend keith fitz-gerald. keith, with that in mind what joanne is saying is logical. at some point in time we'll get our arms around this. at some point it won't disrupt our daily lives as it is, won't be disruptionses with masks and variants, we'll go out in mind. should investors assume it will be over at some point and focus on a post-covid portfolio right now? >> that is exactly what they should be doing. waiting until the game is clear is too late. history is exceptionally poignant on this. a company like jpmorgan is ideal. everyone thinks the it will to down when the fed pressures it or rates gotha kind of company will help the world survive when

we do go back out and come out of hibernation. charles: jack, let me bring you in here. the 10-year yield is going down. erased the gains after we saw the jobs report. invariably, almost everyone i asked keep telling me it is not a big deal we're going back down but we did bounce off a technical double-bottom and if we get back to that level or even lower should we pay attention? what should the message be? >> i think we've seen a pretty dramatic change, turn of events if you will since the fed's last meeting largely on the delta spike but also in china. i mean, they're locking down. they have had floods. they have manufacturing disruptions. they're cracking down on their largest companies. they are not the growth engine they once were. investors are beginning to realize that. so i think based on what we saw from the fed minutes from july, i think a lot has changed,

notwithstanding the afghanistan debacle. so i think we have to look for a little more slowing here. not the benefit of fiscal spending. neil: let me pick up on the afghanistan thing. tough to draw a direct line to the economy per se, right? they're not a major oil producer. i think there is something to the way this is falling out, to the malaise factor there, that exacerbates or magnifies any bad news, jack. a day where the market might have been off 1%. we might be off 1 1/2%. do you feel there could be that kind of a connection there? >> i think there is actually a more solid connection, charles. i think that you know the fact is that you know, president biden was teeing up roughly a one trillion dollar infrastructure package on top of a 3 1/2 trillion dollar budget reconciliation program and i think his political capital is

virtually evaporated, the possibility now that that legislation navigates its way through congress diminishes. i think the fed was counting on a lot of fiscal check writing to offset some of this bond buying. so i think there is a new calculation going on. charles: keith, i saw this morning you tweeted something to the effect scared money don't make money, something like that. am to assume you're buying this dip this morning? >> well first of all thank you for reading along. you are absolutely correct. volatility is something you can harness. you don't have to be scared of it. we did some shopping. we went after apple. we went after amazon. we went after nvidia. we went after the big players because quality companies never can go out of style and you can harness a dip if you need to. charles: joanne, let me ask you sticking with this wholology thing. i find it ironic individual

sentiment came down a lot over the last few weeks. the pros they were still more bullish but overall that is supposed to be a contrarian indicator. is there a point where everyone is down in the dumps where it can become a self-fulfilling event for the economy and the stock market? >> the stock market dynamics are driven more by sentiment than the economy is, right? one thing investors need to do take a step back. look at real drivers and future sales and profits of those quality companies. when you look at the economy and its evolution we're still in the middle of a reopening. certainly a delayed, a bit postponed because of a surge in covid right now. ultimately people are getting back to work, they will continue to do that over the next coming months and quarters. when you look at the fundamentals and you choose to own the companies that ended up growing sales -- [inaudible]. charles: i think -- >> you'll. >> see an opportunity for

invests to own the good companies. charles: i apologize anyways talking over you a little bit. you were going in and out. i want to finish with you, jack. where do we go from here? are we still in a state of flux? the gyrations are picking up but we look around and it is not too long from now, maybe two days from now we'll be back at an all-time high. is this still going to be the trend? >> i think so. the fact is it is all eyes on the fed and this tightening program. and i think we got a taste of it yesterday when the minutes came out. anything that could forestall that tightening will keep real rates negative for longer, interest rates lower for longer. and that just you know, continues to encourage risk-taking. gold versus cash. so i think that you know, i will say that you know, if we look out six months, a year, we're going to have to deal with higher interest rates and a tightening monetary program. charles: right. >> all that means is, we have to

focus on the tangible stuff, earnings and dividends. we can't rely on valuation expansion. charles: all right. back to fundamentals. let's just rip the bandaid off once and for all. get it over with. thank you all very much. one ceo admits there is no competing with president biden's unemployment benefits. rebecca walser is actually demanding that more ceo's speak out against the workers strike shortage destroying their businesses. would you be able to tell the difference between a progressive democrat and president of china when it comes to the topic of the rich? i will get reaction from david bahnsen next. ♪. usaa is made for the safe pilots. for mac.

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and watch all the rewards float in. our thanks. your rewards. ♪. charles: yesterday i posted a poll on twitter and i used this quote, it is necessary to reasonably regulate excessively high incomes and encourage high income people and enterprises to return more to society. i offered four choices who might have said it. 2,000 people took the poll.

36% said it was bernie sanders. 16% said president biden. 32% got it right attribute to these comments of president xi of china, part of the new war on the wealthy. we have bahnsen group david bahnsen. you predicted about it such a war in your book about elizabeth warren and election outcome. it is amazing people can't distinguish comments from the communist chinese president and a powerful u.s. senator. >> yes, i guess we have to decide charles, which is worse, that people assumed it was the u.s. senator when it was actually the communist chinese head as opposed to something that the u.s. senator said that we assume is the communist chinese head. both seem to me to be very problem mat tick and both seem to be happening quite a bit and the rhetoric of some of these very progressive, both senators like elizabeth warren who you mentioned and even some of these "squad" members in the house it

is incredibly un-american and it is un-american for a reason we need to be thoughtful about. it is not the politics, but moral ideology and how they think about economics, that demonization of the wealthy, the concept of achievement, productivity is frowned upon, it has to be on pressed people, zero sum fallacy, forgetting about growing the wealth pie. we need to start teaching young people proper economics. that it is rooted in the dignity of mankind. that says producing things is a good thing, not demonizing people who are successful. charles: yeah. to me, also, david, it seems that they have given up on the notion that we can continue to grow. that somehow they believe or lost faith in the ability of the average american to pull themselves up by the bootstrap to create the next microsoft. i agree with everything you said i would add bring up last time you were on because we had a

great conversation about taxes. you handicapped a lot of things for us. now another problem though for this economy are regulations and we haven't talked about that. apparently through august 13th, administration put regulatory actions $17 billion worth. here is the kicker, 41 million paperwork hours. what is your thought on that? what is the impact of something like that? >> well i want to add to that, that regulation, that kind of paperwork, it is a subsidy to bigger businesses because bigger businesses have more resources to handle more administrative needs, tax, legal, as a percentage of the p&l, it is the small business bogged down with administrative regulation that can be fatal. and so you not only have the lost productivity to all this nonsense, all this red tape, all this paperwork but it is, really bad thing that is disproportionately bad for

smaller businesses. charles: right. >> i don't want to lose sight of that. charles: great point. >> very important to the economy, yeah. charles: i have about a minute to go. i have to ask you about oil. you're big with mlps. you have don't very well with them. is it beginning to be oversold territory now? >> i think own the midstream side. i think you want to watch some of the producers too. i don't think because the oil price is problematic. you know, really here in the low to mid 60s, that might even be kind of the sweet spot for the producers because in the mid0s where we were it starts to dampen consumption a little bit. the important thing they can make a lot of money, oil in the low to mid 60s. they don't need the same break even points. our problem is production back to my moral point a moment ago. we need to be producing more oil. we need more customers for our oil. america should be buying its oil from america and america should be selling its oil to the rest

of the world. it is better for the environment. it is certainly better for our geopolitical interests and our economic well-being. charles: that sounds like the ultimate win-win but i don't know politically, obviously when our admin vision is asking opec to pump up their production there is definitely miss align align -- misalignment. david, appreciate the conversations. president biden trying to enlist ceos, help me out. even shaming them, he has been shaming them all year long not paying workers enough. he is saying help me get folks vaccinated. two-waive street when you come for help. the afghan withdrawal, criticism is piling up. one member uk parliament slamming president biden for pointing the blame at afghan troops for the quick collapse. >> the commander-in-chief calling into question the men i

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♪. >> make sense to require vaccines to stop the spread of covid-19. it is time for those who step up. employers have more power today than they ever had before. my message is simple, do the right thing for your employees, consumers and your businesses. charles: all right. president biden addressing the nation last night. the administration pushing norfolks to get the booster shot and imploring business owners to use their power to enforce vaccine mandates and force them also to get the jabs. here is the problem for months ever since he has come into

office president biden scoffed at businesses and their struggles to find workers. not only said pay them more and on occasions leans in, whispers in for that effect. some cannot afford to pay folks more money and compete with the federal government laying out a whole lot of money coupled with the benefits. ceo of red robin lack of workers affected quality of workers guests and reduced operating hours. rebecca walser is here. rebecca, i understand president biden trying to enlist the businesses, that is smart but tone deaf, even made light of their plight. it is ironic to suggest they have power now when they don't have a lot of power and he kind of laughed it off. by the way just earlier today we heard from the treasury department in a letter to

democrats that suggests they might actually find a way to use more of the 350 billion in the american rescue plan to keep those federal unemployment benefits going. i don't know how businesses are going to compete. >> well, i need 20 minutes with you, charles. i will make three quick points very quickly. first of all medium to small businesses are the economic growth engine of this country. "wall street journal" estimate in 2017, found over 60% of all people employed in america are employed at medium to small businesses that mean less than 40% are working for big employers. now i will just tell you as a lawyer i have a strong caution to ceo's that are forcing the vaccine at this stage. this vaccine is an eua, merge use authorization only which requires under the law informed consent. very hard to argue you're giving informed consent when you're forced to take the vaccine. let people be fired and sue. that is class-action lawsuit waiting to happen. i want people to go back to work. i'm not advocating against that.

i'm saying businesses don't have the authority they think they have especially at the current status of this vaccine not being fda approved. so the problem that you have with joe biden, he thinks that he doesn't understand economics. he thinks he can lean over into a microphone to say, pay them more. let me explain something. the market dictates what a job is worth. if you have to raise the job pay to so high that your business is no longer profitable you're going to go out of business. that is how these things work, mr. joe biden. that is how these things work. you can't just say let's arbitrarily pay more. employers don't have the benefit of printing debt like you're doing saying it can all work out. that is not reality after business owner. that is ridiculous. janet yellen going out saying we can still use arp funds, they are trying to perpetuate over 10 million jobs not filed in this country because people are getting paid more to stay home and do nothing than they are to go to work. that has got to stop. charles: maybe, it may not stop. the other problem that the ceo of red robin pointed out is

jurisdictional restrictions and of course this is why goldman sachs went to 5.5% growth this quarter from 8 1/2%. i think that is a huge cut and my question to you, you mentioned these small and mid-sized businesses, how much longer can they deal with the abrupt hits to their business? >> it is hard, charles. just look, even like red robin, that is a big corporation. you're working with tiny little businesses across the country that can't get people to come in and serve people. we can say all we want, we're getting back to normal, we have vaccines, we can go out. if people are not going back to work we're not back to normal. we can't arbitrarily raise prices because we get government stimulus we're competing with. it will not work. it will lower gdp. estimates you will taxes you will collect, you will not collect taxes if people are staying at home for stimulus reasons. charles: rebecca, thank you very much. love your insight and your

passion. joining me now the founder of code events gretchen smith. gretchen, yesterday a lot of folks were hoping that president biden would actually have the press conference to address what is happening in afghanistan. instead he did not. he did however give an interview talking about the scene of people clinging on to the c 17 cargo plane. two of them fell off in midair. he alluded it happened four or five days ago. let play that for the audience. >> we've seen pictures, hundreds of people packed into a c-17. afghans fall. >> that was four days ago. five days ago. charles: your thoughts on the way he is looking at it? >> it is a disgrace, it's a disservice to every american out there, especially our veteran community. we are in a turmoil in our community right now and just to hear the -- hear see those images and say that is four or

five days ago. there are no words. i can't wrap my mind what is happening over in afghanistan right now. to see the two bodies, we've seen footage, video coverage of it. it is horrific. there are no words. my heart goes out to the family over there, all of the americans. charles: gretchen, you have an amazing network of veterans. you've done so much for them. what are they saying to you about how this is going down and their reflection on not just their own experiences but how they have seen their brothers and sisters who died over there? all the treasured lives that we've lost, what are they telling you, how are they feeling? >> emotions are running very high, very raw. there is a common thread throughout our community, did my service matter, does my service matter? we need to be out there with our veterans during this time to let them know yes, this did matter. failure at leadership level, our commander-in-chief holds full

responsibility for what happened. our rank-and-file were not at fault. they were out there fighting the fight, saving each other's lives, protecting each other. they absolutely did the right thing while they were over there. we need to let them know that, reconfirm it. let them know how much we love them and we're there for them. charles: what should we do? i've got a minute to go. on that, what can we do to remind them hey, this is not on you, you fought with valor. we don't think it was a lot of cause because we love you and appreciate your service and your sacrifice. what can america do to remind our vets about that right now? >> reach out to the veterans in your inner circle in your community, ones that you know personally, let them know, that you're there, they need to vent. you don't have to be a veteran to be a concerned american right now. we all need to be rallying around them. uptick and surge in suicidal ideation is huge.

i can't dress that enough in the past 72 hours. we assisted 17 veterans in distress. that is a problem, charles. we're a small org. we have a broad reach. for us to deal with those type of numbers in a short period of time gives you a brief glimpse what it is like nationwide with all the vets out there right now. we have got to let our veterans know, you matter, we're here for you, you're not in this alone. charles: god bless you. we appreciate what you're doing for the vets. stay strong. so many people are depending on you gretchen. thank you. >> thank you, charles. charles: you know getting back to the market, folks, one of my favorite mantras, one of yours in the last 10 years buy the dip. although it seems, it seems simpler than it really is. harder said than done, put it that way. kenny pole car riff and i have ad advice for you. a prominent fed official putting the hammer down on crypto saying

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♪. charles: all right, i got a question for all the viewers. did you sell at the open? come on, let me know. the red was on the screen t was a whole lot. there has been a whole lot the last few days. i would get it if you did. now here is an even more important question. if you did sell did you take a loss? listen it is hard not to be emotional when it comes to the stock market especially when you watch it too closely. joining me slate stone wealth kenny polcari. kenny, the market has been a

beast of the formed a double v-bottom of march of 2009. it broke out. we haven't looked back. we have had pullbacks. they have been short-lived. one of those represents a whole lot of people taking big hits. so i want to lean on you right now. when do you take a loss? when do you decide to take a big hit? >> i will only take a loss, charles, first of all, nice to see you, pleasure to see you. i will only take a loss whether my thesis in the stock stays does not stay the same. if the stock is pushed around for external reasons, nervousness in the market, nervousness in the fed, whatever, i use that as an opportunity to add more potentially but that is not going to cause me to take a loss as long as the basic premise i bought the stock in the first place is the same. i would only end up selling the stock or taking the loss if suddenly the story changed, i'm in this loss, you know what?

it will not get any better. this is not why i bought it. take the loss, i'm out. charles: right. >> i'm not selling. this morning i didn't hit the sell button. in fact yesterday i was a little early, yesterday on weakness i took advantage i bought more. when i saw the weakness this morning i said you know what? let me let it play out a little bit. i have more to invest. i'm only 60. i have 20 years to go. charles: "cool hand luke" they said sometimes nothing is a real cool hand. i told people sometimes doing nothing is the best advice i can give you. >> absolutely. charles: this whole thing starts with the notion of having an investment thesis in the first place and i don't think enough people actually have that. you talked about buying dips on positions that you own. what about something you've been spying, you know, for whatever reason? have you, i'm sure you've been buying these dips even though you're a long-term buy and hold guy. i guess that is when you make the entries? >> i do. for instance, like, you know, this arc position i had, right?

we watched it go up to 160 earlier in the year. i wanted to buy it. i felt it had gotten away from me. i waited, waited. came back in dropped down to 124. i thought it was right, not only tested the 50-day or intermediate term. found support, jumped in bought some. rallied a little bit, collapsed down again to 105. the fact i like the story. i like cathie woods' style and her guts and the story. came to 101. might break a little more. i will be patient. when it started to turn 101, 102. i jumped back in 105. brought my average cost down to 118. it traded up, traded up back up to 130 and change. now it is under a little bit of pressure again because of nervousness and angst in the market. no reason for me to panic, my gosh, i have to get out. the story hasn't changed. i like the story. in fact i want to see it back

off because i want to buy more. >> like the story in the market means there are buyers and sellers. someone will always be on the other side of that but had in this particular case the other side is starting to build. big names like michael bury. i saw your tweet they both could be right. he might be looking for a trade. with her it is about long term but she is coming under more criticism than normal. again if some one is relatively new, keep hearing people say this thing is trading with crazy valuations, no way they can live up to it. they have an unorthodox approach to all of this, is there a point somewhere where just even if your thesis is right, you want to mitigate the loss and live to play again another day? >> yes. of course. you know, but, again it is about doing your homework. about being cost in the work that you've done -- confident. out there reading lots of research, understanding the different points of view. like you said, you hit the nail on the head, michael bury is

making a short-term, short bet. if the market cracks 15 or 20% in the next three months, guess what? he wins. guess what, cathie wood will be on the other side of that argument. she will buy more, she is so committed to her analysis and her research and her understanding she will buy more because she is in it for the long term. she is not in it for the next two months or three months. i found that argument on twitter very entertaining because they both could be right. depends on your time frame. charles: i think he is looking for the kill, i hate to say it. i'm with you and cathie wood. i think she will win this thing. i think she is remarkable. people have to be patient to let the things work out. i could keep coming -- >> he is not a dummy at all. i think his trade is -- charles: he is not. i'm with you. i'm with you my man. we'll talk again soon. >> he is trading more short term. charles: all right. i hope for his sake it is because i don't think he will win long term.

meanwhile folks, another day, another official taking a shot at the crypto movement, this time in the cross-hairs. at what point does regulation derail the whole thing? could it happen? although smart money warned the death of malls and department stores for 20, 30 years, well the retail resurgence has gone on more than a year-and-a-half. guess what? the bandwagon is filling up. guess what else? there are still some options for you. we'll tell you about them next.

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♪. charles: so the crypto world has been all over the place, right? and a lot has changed between the current rally that began last year from the first bitcoin rally that went to the moon and came crashing back to earth. skepticism was the big hurdle in the aftermath of that. this intransigent position of government and regulatory arms have become really big hurdles. every single day there is a new salvo from within the establishment, the bowels of the crypto world. today comments from sec chair gensler aiming to defy the whole

space suggesting peer-to-peer networks might not be immune from oversight. we have avanti trust founder, caitlyn long. bitcoins have staged a pretty impressive rally in the vocal regulatory threats and opposition from around the world. they say bring it on, maybe regulation is a good thing. is it? >> we've known the regulatory crackdown has been coming since april. the washington, d.c., policymakers very clearly have been telegraphing that the whole time. i think that is one of the reasons why we saw the big correction that started this spring. the smart money smelled this was coming. so it is already in the price. every day we're getting more news, and you're right, there are a lot of institutional, shall we say incumbents that are, that don't like the new technology but the new technology just marchs on without them. charles: right. >> if they want to have the

on-off ramps into these systems controlled they can but they need to lay out the pathway to do so and our bank,, avanti bank has had an application to with the federal reserve since october to do that. charles: crypto bulls actually agree with him. can you clarify what is going on here? >> speculation for sure. a lot of people come into this industry for speculation and they stay once they go down the proverbial rabbit hole. nfl star okum tweeted that. he was first of speculation first couple years. the more he read, understood how liberating the technology is, how much better, faster, cheaper we can move none money around te world than traditional systems that is why they stay. we're seeing more of that for sure. but president kashkari is wrong

about the 95% fact regarding illicit activity. most folks don't realize public block chains are easily searchable. there are intelligence firms that track transactions to wallets known to be criminal and analysis came out with a report analyzing 2020 activity and found only 0.34% activity on public block chains was for illicit activity. it is much, much smaller than you would think. charles: by the way they did a lot of fraud, they have done a lot of fraud with old school fiat money for a long time. caitlyn, i've been too tight for the whole show. i want to bring you back. this crypto thing has found its footing. i appreciate you because you're one of the best. folks we'll be right back.

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daring, or thoughtful. sensitive, or strong. progress isn't either or progress is everything. charles: you know, calls for the death of the department store go back at least two decades right? the death of the mall, that's been around maybe a little less longer, i mean there's no doubt of course there's been upheaval many iconic names have gone out of business in fact a lot of that though due to creative disruption in the industry and more recently yes, online shopping trends but for those names that have survived things are looking up big time. this morning we got earnings from macy's and kohl's, macy's announced $500 million in buybacks and kohl's by the way

raised their four year guidance to $6.10 on earnings from 4.20 by the way they buyback as much as 700 million of their own stock as well and then the kicker, we learned that amazon now ready to open their own department stores, so, is it back to the future and if so, how can you enjoy the ride? joining me now, spotlight asset group, cio shana sissel. you know, if i were to put in a 52 week chart of macy's and amazon over the past year, well, 52 week chart, right? one is up 230%, one is down 1%, right? everyone would assume up 230% was always. it's macy's, it's the stock in a day, it is rocking. what do you make of the result? this brick-and-mortar resolve particularly these department stores which have had some sizzling hot stocks. >> well, i think there's a couple of things going on here. i think people are starting to transition their mindset from the stay-at-home, lockdown, remote work, alt leisure, sporting good, not really worrying about what they look like, not going anywhere to

dress up, not putting on makeup, to the hey, we're going to get out into the world again mindset, and in doing so, they probably have gone more than a year, probably 18 months without actually doing any wardrobe upgrades and trends have changed and a lot has changed. people want to get out and not only do they want to get out and dress up and they are going back to the office and they need business attire but people just want to get out of the house and do things and apparel is one of those things that's very hard to get people to commit to only buying online. people like to try on clothes, see how it looks same thing with makeup, so i think those trends and this pent-up demand is really pushing these retail stocks. charles: it's interesting you mentioned i read somewhere that amazon 40% of the apparel is actually returned and that just emphasizes how important it is sometimes to go and try things on. with that in mind, do you still see more upside? i look at a name like tapestry, also they reported again blowout numbers people are

asking, is it too late are there opportunities on the investment side? >> i do think there's opportunities. i'm not sure these are long term trends with major tailwinds. you talked about the death of the mall. i don't think the mall died. i think the mall was reimagined. actually, i like to think of it as the town square was re imagined, that quaint downtown with the shops and restaurants, people wanted to go back to that so what you've seen develop is these mixed use spaces where you have lots of shops, restaurants, experiential things and department stores are becoming part of that so the ones that are surviving are the ones that are going these new mixed use spaces and i think it's a good flexible space for them so i'd be looking at some of the stores like nordstroms is a big retailer that has sort of adopted itself into this echosystem, and i'd be looking at those stores, macy's might be another one, but i'm not sure if this is a long term tailwind that's going to sustain overtime. charles: i only have 30 seconds what do you make of today's session? are you impressed with this

result? >> um, i am. i think that the market is trying to digest the impact of the delta variant, and how that might impact not just the u.s. economy, but the global economy, going forward and so in the fed minutes so there's a lot going on here you got good earnings but you got the fed and the delta variant and the markets trying to kind of dissolve it all. charles: it's doing it. we got to leave it there, shana. i got to hand it over to my colleague, liz claman. liz, i tell you what this is a pretty impressive session. liz: yeah, impressive particularly because what trader s have endured right? we've kind of got this split decision on wall street at this hour. investors have struggled to make sense of everything, feds taper plans, good jobs numbers, solid earnings, and oil market sell-off, chaos in afghanistan, and surging delta variant number s. it has been a volatile session, but the dow has swung