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tv   WSJ at Large With Gerry Baker  FOX Business  April 17, 2022 9:30am-10:00am EDT

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wall street every friday night at 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on foxbusiness. plus start smart every week there right here in foxbusiness for mornings with maria, weekdays at 6:00 a.m. -- 9:00 a.m. eastern right foxbusiness we hope you'll start your day with us every weekday. in the meantime have a wonderful easter holiday per that will do it for us for now pray thank you so much for being here and ill . happy easter and passover. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> hello this book on the wall street journal at large many americans observe the most sacred weekend of the year, we take a deeper look at the role religion plays in our lives. passover and easter this year arrive as we continue to grapple with the effects of the pandemic that's claimed almost a million lives in this country the backdrop of war in europe. rising economic concerns for many families at home.
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message of the sacred texts and teaching still have for our trouble world? meanwhile the number of americans who say they are believers is declining sharply. are we becoming a post- religious society? if so will be the moral restraints of our behavior increase in the materialistic and fractious world? hello and welcome to the wall street journal at large will be talking about religion this week appropriately enough in its official the two special guests bishop robert barrett of los angeles and rabbi. first happy passover and happy easter and a blessed ramadan to our jewish friends too. religion has played a central role in american life since the very beginning many of the first others came to escape religious persecution bill to practice their faith freely paid while the founding fathers were careful to create a constitution that and sure the separation of church and state, they're almost all religious men themselves who believe the cohesion and stability of the country it rested in large part to the spiritual side of humanity. most of them sought religion as
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fundamental to the moral order they believed was needed to ensure good government. successive presidents have invoked god, sometimes somewhat dubiously as a guiding force behind there and the nation's purpose, and god we trust it still says on the currency. this year, this week as christians once again commemorate the death and resurrection of jesus and jews celebrate the passover that deliver the israelites from slavery, many other americans are wondering what role religion now plays in a country that seems driven by partisan factionalism, antagonism and widening cultural goal is faith still meaningful question regarding issues like abortion and gay rights and gender rights, is traditional religious teaching in fact in retreat is it even relevant or can it offer an answer to these most difficult questions? what is striking with me about that modern cultures even as traditional religion seems to be declined, the yearning for a higher calling, the larger meaning to our lives is strong as ever. we have seen this in the last
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few years and much of our political demonstrations. >> faith has a bleak future on this planet too. >> we are facing a disaster with suffering from a number people. i don't want you to be hopeful i want you to panic. >> this is our generation snapper it black people around the world hear us out. it's time to unify family, unifier died progressed to see their racial justice movement look at those massive demonstrations we saw for the black lives matter boo but they drew attention to inequalities and injustices protesters adopted the language the symbolism and even some cases the rituals of religious belief to advance their cause. victims of police violence are often depicted of saintly figures, protesters took the knee, as it was called interest to atone for their sinfulness. we have been doing to beg to bear the original sin of whiteness you see two is just solid the increasing apocalyptic line which the passions of the
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environmentalist move the consequent of the climate change are seen as some secular retribution for the wickedness of our carbon breed we are encouraged where the sackcloth and ashes in vegetative and took stain from excess to purify ourselves and the planet peer-reviewed be given as you saw there in the case the passionate activist from sweden, a child saint to guide us on the right path just like saint bernadette or the children. this is not to mock the political movements for the passionate beliefs they represent. many argue the hunger for some meaning to life beyond the immediate and physical to the everlasting and the spiritual is as powerful as ever. is this what religious faith is becoming essential in the 21st century? let's talk about the so the very distinguished guest cofounder executive editor of the wisdom daily president of the national jewish center for learning and leadership rabbi brad and of los angeles founder of word on fire catholic minister robert he is
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also author of a book letter to a suffering church rate gentle with thank you so much for joining me. rabbi if i may start with you. happy passover progress thank you. but i we are living in troubling times will talk about we have secular religion were having in these times troubling times of war in europe. got the pandemic lots of division here at helpers a very sacred time of year for juice, for christians as well and also for muslims with ramadan. what relevance does this -- to these sacred messages have today to a troubled world? >> i think the messages are vitally important. more important than ever and our recent past even our lifetime we are in crisis. what i mean is we get to those moments when our capacity to cope exceeds the tools we possess. i write the things i hear most regularly from people or things begin with it's enough already. i just can't take it anymore. and that is the moment when faith can serve as a best or worst i want to be clear as a
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person of faith the self critique comes in knowing that exactly those moments of crisis is when faith can come in and polarize more sharply. and make us more brittle and less able to move with the crisis and that is faith at its worst. faith at its best? faith at its best, whatever our traditions always reminds us whatever the circumstances are without being pollyanna -ish i'm not pretending they're not real challenges. but whatever the circumstances are, there is more than meets the eye in this life. there is more in store for us to pray that there is more inside of us than we often dare to imagine and to greet the crisis with that, yes you feel like you are out of resources. but we promise you there is more to this strife but ultimately great faith not only is about our ability to believe in god however we know that god, but you have practices and communities that remind us there
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is a god or being that believes in us. maria: thank you very much at bishop barron this is the week when christians commemorate the suffering, torture and excruciating death of jesus christ and of course his resurrection. what is your message as you prepare to celebrate easter? >> i think it's import we just said there about the cross of jesus by the cross of jesus represents everything we are afraid of. so torture, physical pain, cruelty and violence institutional injustice and the fear of death, everything that terrifies human beings it's every crisis we have ever lived through is expressed on that cross. and the church for the last two millennia has held up that cross and said look at this. just a settlement looks at what frightens them and that tends to disempower what frightens them. until the church holds up the cross of jesus but as you suggest correctly light of the
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resurrection we know the divine love is greater than, is more powerful than anything that could possibly frighten us. i quite agree that the rabbi we live in difficult times, we always have the churches do not deny that or surrendered to its silly optimism. it looks long and hard at what frightens us knowing that god's love is more powerful than that. i think that is the message of the dying and rising of jesus that is at the heart of the easter celebration. gerry: rabbi very briefly just because we have to take a break that story of deliverance in the history of the jewish people it's the triumph over that persecution and suffering that is an important brick. >> absolute this is about the triumph of life it's dark in the middle of the night in ancient egypt 1230 for the common area people step off and let darkness animated by the faith that there is more out there on the other side than they would otherwise imagine.
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that means it's a challenge for our communities of faith is to make that divine love credible, something the people will dare to live into as they confront whatever challenges they have. maria: thank you how the decline and religious observances change the character of the country and what it means. what it means. we'll have that next. we gotta tell people that liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need, and we gotta do it fast. [limu emu squawks] woo! new personal record, limu! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ (vo) for me, one of the best things about life is that only pay for what you need. we keep moving forward. we discover exciting new technologies. redefine who we are and how we want to lead our lives. basically, choose what we want our future to look like. so what's yours going to be?
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>> landscape is changed dramatically in the last 20 years with the percentage of americans now on the decline. research found number of americans identified as having no religious affiliation was 6% higher than five years ago. and ten points higher than a decade ago breed that means currently three and ten u.s. adults claim to be religiously unaffiliated. a new poll shows just one third of u.s. adults believe it is necessary to be religious to live a moral life. houses downtrend and religious
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change in the of the country? what if it's taking to keep bishop i might start with you here. again in this holy week a lot of people -- increasing number of people to think the whole story of death, resurrection, and heaven, hell, god are all kind of a fear to suited to more primitive times in advanced tech savvy highly educated world that we live in. what do you think? what is your response to that? why do you think religion has some observant practices been in decline? >> welcome first to clarify in the west that is true it's not true in other parts of the road think of africa, christianity is booming. many parts of latin america, asia christianity's booming grid is kind of a western pre-optic occupation. it's a function of western secular's and story behind that. i would just keep emphasizing that without god you do not have
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a proper ground for a moral value, for aesthetic value. if god is the supreme value in which these other values are grounded, when god is kicked out of the picture there is a relativism that takes hold in the society we see plenty of evidence of that. this sort of moral and epistemic relativism is a recipe for disaster. i see in the lives of a lot of young people i reach out to through the internet, adrift without a sense of purpose. making up their values as they go along. that is a spiritual and moral disaster. i would continue as a religious leader to speak up about the importance of religious faith. ancient time hardly? it is a necessary ground for a life that is really focused in a moral and epistemic way. gerry: rabbi do you agree? do you think religious belief is
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an essential condition to have a strong moral code the society needs? >> it is for me it has historically for most of humankind for it was for the founding fathers of this country. i do not know that it needs to be for everybody. i think what the bishop is talking about is important where religious is growing fast this is typically places most of us would not choose to live if we were given a choice. so i think the basic questions of religion are not going anywhere that is precisely why although affiliation is going down the number who claim agnosticism or atheism has not gone up. so i think what is really happening is the religious impulse the notion of faith, the desire for practice for something larger that can guide us is not going anywhere. we happen to be living ironically much like the first century the time jesus and the rabbis of the time when it is relocating and now it is for our institutions that have been the carriers of the sacred traditions as they did in the
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first century, go where people are and relocate those eternal values. they may not look like my own. i may mourn the loss of practices i loved. but here's what i know. things like loneliness and lack of trust are spiraling upward. real challenges and where are those people that have walked out of synagogue or church, is what synagogue or church can we bring to them to address those fundamental questions of things like loneliness and loss of trust? if we do that i think we are actually the front end of a great religious revival but. >> thanks after two years of pandemic the loneliness and loss has been such a problem very important message thank you very much for an american secularism is on the rise as impact on politics, self identity and the moral code eludes large what moral code eludes large what form is it now taking a you can't buy love. happiness.
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spent america may be getting less religious but politics is characterized by a new religious fervor. activists have adopted the language and symbols and rituals of religion to get their message across but apocalyptic warnings are reminiscent of old testament prophets used to enlist people in the struggle. >> either america would destroy racism or racism will destroy america brick. >> people are suffering, people are dying. entire ecosystems are collapsing. we are in the beginning of a mass extinction brickwork so we have laid out here is a very clear moral problem. and in terms of leadership if we fail to act or even if we delay in acting we will have blood on our hands. >> on the language activities of these radical movements tell us about her spiritual needs as humans question was stopped for
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gas again bishop of bayern and california let's start with the we have this phenomenon what people call awoke religion now some of these issues of race and gender and other forms of identity or environmentalism. do you think this is answering that need for religious satisfaction? >> yes i think so but think of john henry newman who said when you kick god out of the center of human concern it does not remain empty but nature pours a vacuum but something will move into that central place inevitably. think of paul tillich in the 20th century said religion is our ultimate concern. everyone is religious, everyone's got some ultimate art centering occupation. when god is kicked out of that central position something will move in. it might be some form of ethical activism and so on pretty much say this but woke us into. in a way it's an offshoot of
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christianity. christianity has always held up the value of the poor and the marginalized have been oppressed and forgotten. classical show when you have these strange expressions past discrimination is sold by the discrimination outcome versus equality of opportunity various distortions i would say. but at the heart of it, yes it is a version of christianity which is moved into the central place abandoned by classical religion. spent rabbi what is this religion without god is there any meeting to it? >> there can be because in many ways the opposite of healthy religion is not secularity. the opposite of healthy faith politics have become the new religion for better and for
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worse. for better in the sense that democratic movements are trying to improve the world and as bishop said in the sense when notion of pursuit of equity and fairness these are all really wonderful beautiful things. but to the extent it has become a religion in the opposite of a religion is idolatry out say to the powers of any movement whether with god or without it is now like paul tillich teaches become a religion. you must always be on guard and look out for where is your faith become idolatry? spent it's it's turbulent time can religion bring our communities together? communities together? we will talk about that with our ♪ feel stuck with credit card debt?
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gerry: passover, easter at ramadan, different faith traditions help bridge the nations divides and heal its wounds? rabbi, religion is seen as a source of conflict indeed it has been a source of conflict and been tremendous suffering carried out in religion they break in these different religions somehow come together to help heal our deeper cultural wounds? >> i think it can i push a lifting up the real challenges were faith could be a negative force but i want to be clear of the other side of that story is that there's been no while and recorded human history like faith to drive acts of love and courage and self transcendence. and so in the end the way i think of faith is faith is like the fire that cooks our food and
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warms our homes. it can either burn down the house or make our life a whole lot better the issue is not the faith it's how we choose to wield it. i think we can come together but more portly coming together i think is how will we treat each other and think about each other when we are apart? in that sense but i would invite us to do is not to imagine the unity and infirmity are the same. and that we have to figure out how to be together even when we differed which for me, the more deeply traditional religious one is the easier that should be because the way i think of my tradition and all traditions is these are gifts from independent god. i am only finite. so for me what i think of it as have been given an 8-ounce cup called jewishness to fill from infinite well called god in the world. and now think of each tradition would celebrate i'm glad there's a catholic church on whether protestant denominations. do you do not all have to be the same if the relays will participate in something larger
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than ourselves. gerry: bishop barron bradley if i would ask you are you optimistic different faith traditions are moving and the right direction we can maybe eliminate some sources of stress we seen so much in the past? >> yes indeed we have come a long way there's no question about that and thank god for it. i would say it is in light we are speaking of easter time, go right back to what is most distinctive to christianity namely the cross. the cross is rome's way of imposing its authority through violence as a threat of violence by the fact jesus endures that cross, answers not with violence but with forgiveness. then upon the resurrection, returns to those who had betrayed and abandoned him, not with violence but with the word of shalom, peace on his lips. what is most distinctive about christianity is what can bring us together because at the heart of the easter message is, violence is answered best by a forgiving love. it is in that non- violence of
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that we find a way forward. so i went against stress the paradox by stressing what is most distinctive in christianity we find what can bring us together. spread that's it for this week got sci-fi really great thanks to we will see you more next week with more commentary on wall street journal at large >> "barron's roundtable" sponsored by jpmorgan asset management. ♪♪ jack: welcome to "barron's roundtable" where we get behind the headlines and prepare for the week ahead. the outlook for russia's war on ukraine and dangerous malware aimed at the us energy sector. the former head of cyber command admiral michael rogers. later socially responsible


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