cheryl: tune in this weekend and american dream home starts tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. through sunday morning. that's it for me and over to charles pain. charles: i'll be watching, i love the dream homes, cheryl. see you soon. good afternoon, everyone. i'm charles payne and this is making money. stocks are lower after the jobs

report came in better than consensus and did powell give us too much hope or are cracks growing in the economy enough that maybe we could see an end to the hiking cycle? we have a full panel all here to help guide us through. despite all the accolades, i'm worried about the exodus of the workers from the labor force. where are they going? we get take and apple ceo tim cooke giving fbn the silent treatment and spoke with congressman darryl issa. congressman is here to speak when they said they're switzerland and have they gone too far and take away on magenta. that's the color of 2023 and why it might be good for the markets. all that and so much more on making money.

charles: you take away talking and she hads all the perrlative like it was a -- superlatives and it was a red flag and participation and again declining 186,000 people left the labor force, where they going? private payrolls by the way are down month over month, 221,000 and by the way, down a ton in february when there were more than 700,000. in a household survey, they saw job losses, get this, folks, two surveys in the report in the last eighth months, we had 12,000 net jobs according to households versus 3 million in the establishment survey. they both can't be right. hourly wages were a bright spot up 5.1% from a year ago and adjusted inflation 2 at any time 6%. the market is higher for the week so far hanging tough and the s&p 500 might be on the

verge of -- was ons verge of the average and could that trigger selling and there's a lot of attention in the air. i want to bring in bianco research president, jim bianco and jay powell sounding more confident on rate inflation hikes and he made the speech on wednesday and we'd have a jobs report that came in below consensus and maybe wages below consensus and we got the exact opposite. did powell make a mistake and give us the wrong head fake? >> well, on the last part, yeah, i think powell made a mistake. he does not want the stock market to go up. he doesn't want you to feel richer because you'll spend more money and keep inflation up. that was not his goal. what we saw in the misreading of the payroll report is disappointment that the economy -- let me back up, charles, everybody is projecting a recession next year that . is the consensus forecast and

first time we've seen that and everybody is saying that next year we'll have the recession. that is because if we have a recession and the fed will pivot and the market is interested in cheap money than it is in the companies you invest in making the profit. the payroll report was a disappointment and want to see less people getting jobs and that means the fed cut rates and more people get jobs, they won't cut rates and it's not about profit name. it's not about the health of the companies. it's about cheap money. they want interest rates to be cut. that's why wall street was so disappointed by it. charles: are you considered this is a new paradigm we'll never get out of and warren buffet sat on like $140, $150 billion in cash. he put some to work this year and feels like very few people are investing anymore and everyone is trying to catch the

next wave and that's not the essence of investing, is it? >> no, it's not. everybody is a gambler right now. if you look at the way that the market has traded and look at explosion of interest in the options market, it's all about gambling. but to that end, why are we gamblers? a dozen years of cheap money and that's gotten the mentality of the market to be about cheap money. so we've gotten away from investing, crypto is the great example of that in terms of ultimate degenerate to general rat gambling -- g general gambling and it's going to take right side interest rates to get away from the ideas that his own stocks and wind to the fed, they will cut and print and the market will go up and you'll make money. that you want to buy good companies. we don't do that anymore. that is a big problem right now. charles: no, i agree. it's so, so tough.

you know, you talk to people and say, you anyway what, back in the day, this plus this plus this always equaled this certain outcome and now it's harder to get there. i want to do -- i want to switch gears while i have you and ask you about the world of de-centralized financing and the motion of the ftx scandal is going to make it easier for the federal government to hijack this whole digital currency world and i've always been worried but certainly seems like now you can have the fed and others go in and say, keep it under the suspicion of the government and have digital currency and maybe some folks that don't know the nuances of this and what it could mean in terms of true freedom might say okay. >> yeah, that's what i'm afraid of and the whole idea of de-centralized finance is you have control or sovereignty of your own money and it's your money and no one can take it or tell you what you can or can't pay for with it.

whether or not want to donate to canadian truckers or buy cigarettes or anything this between or sugary drinks, which will be the next thing they tell you you can't spend your money on as well. the government wants to step in under the idea that what ftx did was simple fraud. there's rules for hundreds years and you can't steal people's money. that's what they did. this is not a crypto story, it's a traditional theft story and they're going to use this as the nose under the tent to come in and then regulated everything. de-centralized finance is not the problem and has not been the problem, but i fear like you do, it's going to get caught up in the wave of regulation. charles: we need your voice out there. you're looking good, my man. you're running or something. you're making me a little jealous. maybe they should ban those sugary drinks for me. >> yeah, thank you. charles: have a great weekend. i want to bring in the investment and chief u.s. economist laura rainman.

i want to ask you a couple things about the jobs report in particular too, this 2.7 million job difference between the household and the establishment survey over the past eight months and sinking labor participation and 35 to 44 age group and it's so pronounced among men so what is -- what's happening, laura, inside the jobs market that's supposed to be great that people are leaving it? >> it's been a real conundrum since the start of the pandemic. you've -- and i don't know there's one answer that's i think the problem that we're all facing. the fact is we had such a tremendous long string of upward asset prices, cr c crypto playea part of that and people didn't want a traditional job and left the work force and omitterring on the margin -- operating on the margins and trading and had other wealth. wealth from homes, other wealth to lean into. i think one of the things we're

expecting is over the next year, a slow drip of some of the workers to come back in. because this prime age working group, that is the group that we usually see 85% participation. it makes sense the baby boomers would leave the work force and not come back in, but this is a group you'd expect to stay working. charles: and baby boomers love to work. you've got to push them out the doors these days. let me ask you about october; right, the piece you wrote. i love it and still have it about the fourth quarter and one part about uncertainty. you said it has a name: fed policy. monetary policy becomes increasingly data dependent and vol it willty and jobs data could become more acute. seemed like this week that jay powell was trying to move away from data dependency and still, if that's the case, will that mitigate volatility? i got to say at the beginning of the session, at least when the jobs reports were announced, felt like we'd be down a lot

more. >> you know, i think that was a head fake by powell. i still think the fed is very data dependent going forward. if you ask them where the terminal fed funds rate is, i don't even think they know. they do need to lean against this market tendency to continue to put that powell put in place. this is, i think, to me now what we're seeing. powell trying to come in, trying to really walk this fine line of the fact that they need to down shift away from these mega 75-basis point hikes and we're only going to get a 50 point hike in the mid december, but from there, i think the reality is they are still unclear as to what their final rate hike is. to me, i see an economy that's less interest rate dependent than we have been, and that'll keep uncertainty really high. charles: about the notion of a softish landing, is that realistic? >> i am in the camp that it does

expect to get a recession probably towards the end of next year. boy, the pathway to that narrow landing has narrowed significantly. charles: before i let you go, you wrote about the 60/40 portfolio, something i've been talking about even before this year. we've seen bonds come up and stocks come up a bit. people want to reengage with that strategy next year. think it's a good idea? >> i think next year we need to be prepared to look away from that traditional portfolio. we're just not going to get the same rate cuts that markets are expecting, and we're not going to get the quantitative easing that allowed that traditional portfolio to a excel over the pt decades. charles: thank yous lara. i want to bring in goldman sachs financial head joe duran and pick up on the 60/0 o 40 fort polio and we had a great

conversation not too long ago. it was a terrible performance and you, you know, the thing is, it's created a retirement dim ma if you will for so many people -- dill dill dilemma foro many people. what's the alternative to this? >> well, first of all, we should remember that this is a 3% of the time environment. it's not been since the 1930s that you have stocks going down and bonds going down as well. today's a great example. you would typically see that the stock market is going down, people look at safety of bonds. it's the reverse now. the interest rates go up and hurts the bond price and stock market goes down as a consequence. interestingly enough, the 60-40 portfolio, fixed income has done well this year and to assume that's the truth going to be the case going forward is a mistake.

throughout all of history. what you'll see is you get a spike in rates and bonds tend to stabilize and perform the function of buffering your portfolios and we should not take what we've experienced this year and assume that's what we're going to have going forward. i think 60/40 works but if you're retired, you have to be very careful with alternative investments and come with ill liquidity and i'm a huge fan of alternative investments but there's a set of constraints that really ewe need to have more money and less need for liquidity because almost all alternative investments require more time and a lot have, let's say you're in real estate, less liquid fio than a bond for sure -- liquidity than bonds for sure. be cautious about that . charles: this week we learned the savings rate down to 2.3%. the second lowest since 1959. yet it doesn't seem to be impacted consumer behavior. not at least yet. credit card use is going up, there's more room for people to

use credit cards, but are you concerned that, you know, we're on borrowed time here? >> i think any time -- you have to remember, spending -- the saving rate is so low and inflation caught everyone flat footed and people's pay while it's going up hasn't adjusted quickly enough for the spike in prices so people have less disposable income. they're spending it and maybe they're not spending it on new stuff, they're spending on experiences and certainly anyone that's booked a holiday trip will see the pricing is completely out of sight. so what you find is when you have the spikes in inflation, you'll very quickly see the people's savings rates go down and their pay will increase and they'll adjust their forward saving back to saving for retirement and everything else. it's not unusual and i wouldn't be too worried about it. for next year in the survey that we did, 78% of people in all age demographics are looking to limit their spending next year, probably they'll offset the fact they were caught flat footed

here and can save money. you can see people already proactively making the right decisions. charles: or maybe they know they're close to maxing out that credit card. hey, i got less than a minute to go. i want to pick up on your survey because 77% of gen z expect financial situation to be better next year versus only 28% of boomers. what's going on? are boomers being realistic or gen zers? >> think about who they are. young folks can ask for more money. retirees have to live on what they v. inflation harms those retire a lot more than those asking for more money. it's a reflection of the times we're in no. c now. charles: if they expect my son, he expects every year to be great. thank you, joe, everyone should look at that survey. coming up, folks, apple ceo tim cook meeting with gop lawmakers

says he's committed to becoming politically switzerland and we'll break down what that means and we have victoria hernandez in studio, next. ♪

first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better... by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting...get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections some serious... and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms... or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms... develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me.

charles: so the quasi powell pivot and are investors putting the cart before the horse mostly out of frustration. joining me now crossmark global investment victoria fernandez. i know you said earlier this week when this was happening, you made a comment this was going to slowly see this powell pop fade away. why did you believe it then? >> i think when you look at how the market reacted to what powell said, really what was new, charles? nothing. charles: felt like the new part was very knew anxioused but instead of -- n nuanced but more sure that inflation is coming down and they took that and the softish landing part. he's so clinging onto that so if

he's going to cling onto it, the investors are going to cling onto it. >> that's right but look, he's telling you they're going to go higher. terminal rate around 5% if not a bit over that. that means we have at least 100 basis points to go in hiking. we go 50 in december, fine. that means two more 25 next year. i don't think people beef that's going to happen or it is. >> once we peek or hit the terrible rate. >> that's the key point. we're now starting to see hikes we've done filter through the economy. charles: people saying once they're done hiking, sooner or later they're going to start cutting and that's when the party begins. >> that's where i think the market is ahead of itself. we won't see rate cuts in 2023 or if we do it'll be at -l tail end and we have to see the recession first and consumer is strong and if it's a shallow recession, i don't think they'll be in a rush to cut rates at that point. charles: i want to pick up on the recession thing.

using three month yield historically, when they've inverted for ten consecutive trading days, we always get a recession. recession generally starts 311 days after the inversion. i did the math, inversion about october 25 and means the recession starts september 1 of next year. that's a long time from here. how do you invest ahead of a looming recession? >> yeah, you know we always take that longer term per spect and i have looking at that recession and how do we want to be positioned? with quality names, we want to be positioned but doesn't mean you can't be tactical with some of the smaller runs we're seeing right now. look, we've got seasonality here and bye backs coming, a strong consumer. you're going to have some positive moves in the market. you can take advantage of a bit of that. but longer term your portfolio has to be quality. charles: a core portfolio and quality names but the first june rally 17% and this rally is 13% and within there names are moving 20% or more.

that's okay to try and get scalp some of that. >> yeah, look right now too, housing market was demolished for awhile. mortgage applications are up four weeks in a row and home depot or lowes, add some cyclical components to your portfolio that can take advantage of the market moving higher. charles: i got 30 seconds, what's the wild card out there that feels like the same conversations been going on for months and months. is there a wild card out there that you're kind of worried about, no one is talking about and maybe afraid to talk about in public? >> i think you've got a few you've got to watch. watch for earnings, if they're much stronger and everyone thinks they'll come down next quarter and that's part of the story. what if they don't. geopolitical issues are there obviously. you've got to watch that and i think if you get a deep recession, that's going to scare people and it's not what they're anticipating. charles: i agree with you, all three. by the way, while you were walking into the studio, i was

teasing this segment saying you were one of my very favorite. >> thanks a lot. charles: apple's tim cook on capitol hill doing damage control and really trying to answer a lot of questions. i mean, we're talking china, we're talking corporate bullying and also what's up with musk and freedom of speech. congressman darryl issa sharing what the ceo told him and i'll be talking to small business owners on december 15 from a variety of industries and how they turned their passion into profits and finding work and all the other loopholes and hurdles to go through but you don't want to miss it. we'll be right back. ♪

charles: people are now demanding more accountability and more answers from apple, but when our own hillary vaughn was asking the ceo about this yesterday, well, let's just say he remained silent. take a listen. >> hi, mr. cook, do you support the chinese people's right to protest? do you have any reaction to the factory workers beaten and detained for protesting covid lockdowns? do you regret restricting air drop access that protesters used to evade surveillance from the chinese government? do you think it's problematic to do business with theni chinese party when they suppress human rights? charles: tim cook was on his way to meet several lawmakers including my next guess, congressman darryl issa. representative issa i r, i saw a

sound byte on where cook pledged to be switzerland and maybe his intentions are honest but do you believe they can pull it off? >> tim has a history or apple as a company has a history of protecting our personal privacy better than any of the other major tech companies, marketing information more judiciously than let's say a google on the android platform but at the same time, they are very dependent on china, china to aigrette extent considers -- a great extent considers them important but not the operate freely and taking down of air drop is a good example of where they pulled the string and apple had appeared to have in choice. one of the things we were asking for is both here and outside the u.s. that political neutralness,

the don't surrender private things you've said you'll do and continue to work on better encryption and be honest when you're forced to do something. that's where the switzerland comment came from tim cook is that he wouldn't put his finger on and he would be a legitimate neutral, and i'm going to hold him to it. charles: the problem i think though with respect to china is they're doing business in china, this is not new; right, we saw there was a wave of folks committing suicide at the foxconn plant and stories now that you've got nets there because someone may be overworked or severely punished. they can do business wherever they want, i suppose, but i don't know the role of congress but seems unseemly in this role in the day and age and the abusive communist leaders that large company like apple is so beholded to them. should they be pushing back and

should congress be doing anything about this? >> congress has been and needs to do more. you might note that president macron yesterday was bashing the passage of the chips act and the idea we're trying to re-americanize our manufacturing. i don't get it. france has been a more protectionist than we ever have been for a decade in terms of things they cherish. we need to make sure we bring back to america the capability for both our consumers and for our own national security that particularly includes the key components of an app and will other technical products, the chips, the on glass, the batteries and, you know, when you see tesla expanding hads tapeability in the u.s., it's a good -- capability in the u.s., it's a good start and bringing intel and taiwan semiconductors to build fabs here, it's an even more important start and we've

got to do a lot more and make sure our tax policy and brock seizure disorders follow that -- bureaucracy follow that incentive we're asking for. charles: and make it is easier and speaking of, you know, these big tech companies, i know that hunter biden investigation looming large on the gop agenda. the role of big tech, how much of a focus will that be, big tech providing aid or cover during all of this? >> it's going to be huge because it was an active cover up but, charles, we've got to look at it as tech doing it and then in fact finding out that the fbi, department of justice was asking them to do it so you have a willing partner in the private sector, but we also have to look to the government to this administration and even people in the previous administration bureaucrats who clearly were part of the problem and we've got to stop that. you cannot have government employees putting a thumb on corporations and then corporations conveniently

saying, well, i was just doing what the government asked me. that was detriment toll tafanele and tear -- detrimental to a free and fair election and it cannot happen again. charles: congressman, thank you very much. >> thank you, charles. charles: rebecca, your thoughts on the market for a moment. earlearlier this week with jay powell and the jobs report and it's been a tough year. what are you see something >> you know, charles, i'm seeing global uncertainty and we can't get our feet under this. we don't know which direction the world is going to go and i'm in the camp of feeling bearish unfortunately still. i know that you're looking at a september next year based on 311 days, but i think that's a little closer than that unfortunately. charles: the recession? you think so? let's face it, you could argue that half of america is in their own personal recession already; right? >> absolutely you could. i think people get upset when

they say i'm not in a recession? it feels like i am. what's going on here. charles: you don't want to go to the super market and say there's no recession. go to cnbc and say that but not to a supermarket. how about navigating this market? how are you doing that and i had a great conversation with victoria fernandez and feels like investors are a bit more understanding having seen so many crazy things in the last 10, 20 years. how are you navigating this? >> you know, i think for me, for our practice, we're really seeing more of a global changeover with the bricks nation moving and 388 tons of gold moved in the q3 which is the largest since 1967 moving the gold stan t dar standard tot and forcing our hand to move assets back to currency and be eight hours problem for -- a big problem for the united states and that's an alarming trend, charles, and they want --

we're in beta testing for the digital dollar and all these things are coming to a point and we'll see which way it goes whether see bdcs globally and it'll be a battle. charles: you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe some may have been orchestrated. your podcast is freedom federalism and ftx contagion. it's all coming to a head and connect the dots on how the end game to all this might look. >> well, the end game for america is a little bit -- if you just really quickly think about a gold backed currency in the west and east and bricks nation and a lot of other nations moving that direction, what does that do to china always taking our fiat dollars not backed by hard assets and how do they keep cassioppi cementing our dollars in a -- accepting our dollars in a deficit-backed economy and we're not going to have the debt fiat currencies we've had forever

because we are changing. the federal reserve came about in 1913 and had stuff before that and will have stuff after that, and i think we're going to see a forcing of the head of the federal reserve. the federal reserve is in negative cash flow. we're already pretty insolvent on 8.6 trillion of total holdings versus only 38 trillio, $38 billion of actual capital and 201 leverage ratio and that's bad and going into negative cash flow and that's what we have and paying federal funds overnight rates to deposits but they're only getting in $8.6 trillion on assets and are paying -- when we bought all the assets in 2020 when the interest rates were lower and can't sustain negative cash flow at central bank for very long. it's a big problem. charles: and wonder who will fund the government too . china doesn't buy the bonds and feds don't buy the bonds and japan nod buying bonds and they're not getting anything back from the federal reserving. it's a heck of a conundrum. rebecca, thank you, appreciate it.

>> thank you, charles. charles: coming up, my take away on the pantone color of the year. the santa claus rally, are we in it and will we stay? we'll break it down with the new 2023 target. we'll be right back. ♪

charles: folks, they're rolling in. the 2023 targets for the market next year. and, you know, unlike this year, my next guest is not at the top of the list, but he's close. joining me is bmo chief market strategist brian belsky and target 4300. you're not too far away. you still got time to revise

yours higher. if you want the top slot. >> there's a couple of weeks here. just add more work, charles. just add it on. charles: a lot of heat comes with being at the top and you took a lot. >> i did. thank you for being on your show. you supported our work and process. we've had a long-term relationship and this has been a tough year. i'm not going to lie. it's been a humbling year. you know what, this too shall pass and really the theme of our work for 2023 is the year one of a normalization process where investors have to understand that it's going to be normal to have higher than 0% interest rates. it's going to be normal to have higher than 2% inflation. single digit earnings growth is normal. high single digit, low double digit performance in the stock market is normal. charles: right. right. >> i think it'll take time to get used to that and because of that, charles, any kind of macro bs story or perceived bad news

story will be sold and there'll be lots ofility and i think that will probably be your next great buying opportunity. charles: that's where you say normalization process will be bumpy as they recalibrate expectations and we've had slow moving economies with gang buster stock markets. they don't always have to go hand-in-hand. >> no, they don't. we went back obviously when you put one of these reports together, i think this is my 26th in my career and 11th consecutive one at bmo and we looked at all recession periods back to 1945, in a calendar year, when there's a recession, the stock market is up 5.8%. that's a drop the mic moment and whether or not there's a recession, it's a moot point and the base case it's already happened or will beginning of next year but the stocks earning and the economy and the market is down 25%, i think the big secret's going to be the big

secret is that earnings will not go down 20%. it's lazy math to say $200. that's lazy. lazy math f. you take a look at condition of balance sheets, cash flow and stability of earnings across the market cap spectrum, small men and large cap stocks, earnings 220, something like that, down 5% will be a huge victory. charles: ricket. i agree but -- right, i agree and also love when the street is overwhelmingly saying earnings will be negative. that's when you get the setups. last friday was a short day, trading day and you had stocks up 30% of earnings. albeit they'd been hammered to death but, you know, your recession, your base case is 4300 and bull case is 4800. if the fed can get policy right, do you feel like powell took a step in that direction this week? >> i think he did. you know, we have been supporters of powell. i think people have been a bit too critical of him. you have to have some

perspective and see what the man and the committee was going through during covid and especially a year ago when we had more lockdowns and stimulus being thrown out. he's done the best job i think he possibly has been able to and again, the bond market is the real proxy and the bond market is telling you things will ease the second harper lanes of next year -- second half of next year. charles: secular bull market in place and average return after ten years is 13% and we take that . i printed out your report, okay. >> old school. old school. charles: i want people to know you put the work in and one of the reasons i love having you on and appreciate you is you put the work in. >> thank you. charles: see you soon, brian. >> take care. charles: coming up, my take away on viva magenta, that's the 2023 color of the year. might be good for the market and i'm connecting the dots always and a new trade with a digital wallet. tom is here to talk about this. i mean, we thought everybody was getting out of the business, we'll be right back.

♪

first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better... by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting...get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections some serious... and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms... or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms... develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me.

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ftx scandal and really a whole lot of talk about the demise of cryptocurrency, one company announced it's getting in the business but with a twist. tasty crypto unveils self-custodian digital wallet. the ceo of tasty trade tom sosnoff. tom, what does this mean and how is this whole thing different than the other exchanges like ftx has been warned never to get involved in? >> it's kind of the other side of the fence. you know, tasty is a boutique online broker dealer and u.s. regulated and we live in a completely different space. we just happen to offer cryptocurrency in -- digital assets in addition to stock options, futures, futures options, basically anything you can trade listed centralized market in the u.s.. we offer crypto because we feel like it's an important as debt class that's only going to --

asset class only going to grow over the next couple decades. the digital space, the whole defie space, web 3 and basically taking it to anything that's tokennized you know it's fascinating to us. so it's important for us to offer, you know, alternative assets to our customer base. it's just uncorrelated assets and healthy for a portfolio, but we have nothing to do with, you know, we're not market makers. we don't do clearing so essentially we're a facilitator. we're basically saying, hey, you know what, if you want to buy or sell digital asset, we're happy to do that for you and facilitate for you and we think it's healthy for your portfolio. what we wanted to do in launching tasty crypto and we started this almost a year ago was add -- just add an element of trust, you know, it made us nervous. we didn't want to leave -- we don't like leaving assets in the

spot marketplace or leaving assets with firms that do the execution, market making, clearing, custodian. that makes us nervous so, you know, we like things centrally cleared and things fungible. we're just telling our customer base, hey, you know what, we have customers all over the world and saying, hey, you know what, be your own custodian. that's all. charles: that's an integral part of this and folks that don't know now know you're a pioneer and investor in education. you've helped so many retail investors over the years. your reputation is on the line here. you're not someone that came out of left field and backed by silicon valley but having said that, you understand where the nervousness is right now. >> listen, charles, i've been, you know, we were the original founders and creators of one of the largest trading platforms in america and started when we left the trading floor in chicago in

1999 and built tasty of selling the first and tasty is an 11-year project and we take our commitment to fintech and innovation and creativity really, really seriously. i mean, we have fun with it, but at the same time this is our life blood and so for us, the technology aspect of this, i can't look at what happens everywhere else in the world. i can't think about the way people, you know, interpret different asset classes or think about the risk and things like that. i just have to respect the fact that there is an asset class out there that is really interesting to me on lots of different levels and for that reason, you know, it's our role as a really good fintech innovator, it's our role to provide opportunity to everybody and that's what we're doing. charles: i got 30 seconds left, overall the retail investor is fading a little bit here, a fair amount of folks have sold, listen, there's been scandals

we've been talking about. concerns about unfairness, concerns about lack of attention from regulators. what are you telling folks out there again and you've been at the forefront of all this. >> i mean, we're -- we would love to see like you and everybody else, we would love to see some regulatory clarity but at the same time, i mean, most successful investors are contraries and when everybody gets down on something and you almost know, deep down inside, you know it's time. i think that -- i think the digital asset, i think digital asset haves held up quite well given all the stuff that's gone down, and i think you're seeing something right now, especially happening -- tasty is chicago based and something is happening in chicago with a bunch of really big, high frequency firms, market making firms getting in space now and you're going to see a very dynamic and efficient marketplace evolve

over the next couple months and years. charles: tom, great having you on and good luck with that and we'll check in on you from time to time if you don't mind. >> any time. charles: coming up, my take away and why the color of 2023 might actually be good for investors. we'll be right back.

charles: all right, folks, the color of the year 2023 is magenta according to pantone

saying it's a shade rooted in its nature descending from the red family, demonstrate ising a new signal of strength. magenta came about as a result of the ine vex of synthetic dyes. invented in 1860, it was named. for investors, this might not be the best omen. first, we don't like anything in the red family, plus we have to be worried of anything synthetic, but we do like a good battle, and look how beautiful it is. so as a con strain, i'll take it. 20 the 23,st going to be a positive, we'll take magenta. liz claman, what do you think? liz: oh, horrible color for redheads. [laughter] wait a minute, is that not what you're talking about? [laughter] charles, real depth here. thank you. charles: you got it. liz: charles, stay tuned for what has turned out to be the killer trade of th