tv The Claman Countdown FOX Business December 22, 2022 3:00pm-4:00pm EST
came to the rescue to the stock market in 1987 and the rich folks in this country have never looked back. they have only made more and more money. second, this article actually will have to be updated in a few months anyway, right? because two million people are out of a job, homes are worth a lot less, used cars try to sell one, ask car max about that and household appliances if you have any you don't need sell them on ebay today. third the most important housing recession is going to take a cease your toll by the time the fed is done so the fed is not your friend my friends. if you want to really get in there change your life and make a lot of money despite what you see in the market today this week and this year, you have to participate. that's always been my message and don't let anyone tell you different, right, liz? liz: i certainly won't tell you any different. i'm not fighting with you charles thanks so much. charles: sue elater. liz: folks we are starting with breaking news the depth of the sell-off has now erased nearly all of wednesday's gains for the s&p and the nasdaq. not so much for the dow although earlier the dow jones industrial
s had lost 803 points of course yesterday it had gained 526. s&p for the moment down 75 we've got the nasdaq lower by 291, remember yesterday it gained 162 russel 2000 down 34 points. this is a broad based sell-off, folks, with all major sectors getting trashed right now. you can see the best of the worst i guess is consumer none cyclicals along with healthcare and real estate but the laggards basic materials, technology, energy. tech though is plumbing the dep ths when it comes to semiconductors which are drowning. the leak in the dam sprouted after the bell when micron shock ed wall street with a hideous quarterly report which included a much steeper than expected profit loss and 48% drop in revenue year-over-year. we've got micron pulling back at the moment by 3.7% earlier, it hit a 2.5 year low of $48.43.
now, the microchip maker gave no hope for profit improvement in the current quarter. in fact losses could double the expected $0.30 shrink. as bad as micron looks dow component intel actually has been looking worse today. it is the second-worst performer right now on the dow jones industrials the only one worse is boeing but it's the chip equipment makers getting lam research slaughtered at the moment. applied materials as well both are among the laggards you have lam down 8.9% applied materials down 8.2%. the chip entire sector is only part of this broad based drop. this is at the heart of it. third quarter gdp upwardly revised from 2.9% to 3.2% that is higher-than-expected boosted by strong consumer spending, which the markets translated as more fuel for the feds fire. in fact, that's why we held back from slapping the santa claus rally sticker on yesterday's final hour gains. remember that?
because the biggest thing that has dragged markets down this year making it the worst year for stocks since 2008 is still in play. the fear that jerome powell & company will not diverge from their inflation slaying effort. okay so there's that but you want to see prices actually coming down? both tesla stock and the price of its model 3 and y are dropping you've got tesla down 9 %, worst performer on the s&p and the nasdaq 100. this is another fresh two-year low for the ev maker stock. two headlines hitting the tape. first tesla doubling discounts on its model 3 and y vehicles. the discount will now go to $ 7,500. price cutting was always something tesla ceo elon musk has been allergic to but as delivery volumes slowdown, competition speeds up, and he's stuck dealing with twitter which he now owns. that's the problem. second, u.s. lawmakers just informed all u.s. automakers for details on their supply chains as they hunt for possible links to forced labor of the
wegers the muslim minority in china. as we look at general motors it's down 6.6% ford is lower by 4.5%. now i won't give the bulls much comfort but there is one rare slice of green coming in from the vix, wall street's fear index is heating up about 10- plus percent that is one-week high but we'll flip this sell-off on its head by bringing in our floor show traders scott bauer and teddy weisberg who has morphed from park all your cash in treasuries , grinch as i understand it, teddy a minor digging for diamonds among the coal pile. >> that's true, liz. this is that time of year. it comes every year, and this is especially interesting and that is the year-end tax selling tends to create some very interesting opportunities, one would hope. a lot of coal out there but in that coal, there are a few potential diamonds, and every year for the last 40 or 50
years, we look forward to this time of year and this year it's particularly interesting because the markets have been so weak and the weak stocks tend to get weaker as we get towards the last trading days of the year because of tax selling. i don't know why folks wait until the last minute. perhaps they think everything is going reverse in a few trading days, but it's human nature. they wait until the last couple of days of the year so the weak stocks tend to get weaker. we have a shopping list. we're pretty agnostic. we don't spend a lot of time looking at the fundamentals, but we do look at stocks that are making new lows, yearly lows and hopefully multi-year lows, as potential buying opportunities going into the new calendar year. liz: okay, verizon, medtronic, you've got tyson on there, vodafone, okay, so verizon we've been watching here on this show. its got an eight pe, and yes gone down markedly. its just been a very tough year. medtronic, that pe is a little bit richer at about 23 but is
there a common thread here? just simply that they are hitting multi-year lows, teddy? >> well, you know, a lot of it is just kind of a gut. sadly, some of these stocks we actually own. i think verizon is particularly interesting. i don't want to make a fundamental case for any of them , but quite frankly, we're just looking at the price action and where they are relative to where they've been both on a yearly and multi-year basis. you know, we think medtronic is an interesting stock. we own it and current prices we think it's worth a shot. we feel the same about verizon and elanco. you can't buy them all, they aren't all going to work but clearly some are dramatically oversold and listen, liz, they are down at these levels for a reason. it's not good news. they are down here for bad news. it's usually an earnings problem , but we think that fundamentally, all these companies, one way or the other , are really pretty
decent companies and they are going through a bad period and perhaps there's just a real opportunity in terms of buying a name dramatically oversold, more for technical reasons than fundamental. liz: i'm going to be doing this a lot during this hour we have about 55 or so minutes left to trade. the dow is down 504. the nasdaq is down 291 points. that's the biggest percentage loser down about 2.7%. scott bauer, yesterday, right here, at this very point of the show, dutch masters of carnivore trading cam on, by the way he's up 23% in 2022 with his trades. he came on and said i am selling this rally. that was yesterday, so on a day liked to, teddy is buying. what entry points do you see as attractive? >> it's real difficult, people are going to buy so you have to look at areas, value areas both on the top and the bottom. going on to next year, there's a
few sectors i really like. one of them is some of the energy sector and yes, i know that was a play for 2022 but a lot of these stocks like teddy just said have gotten really hit over the last few weeks maybe the last month. devon energy for one sticks out to me. it's an amazing year but it's down about 15-20% or so, from a technical perspective. i love this stock right here. it pays a 9% dividend. liz: whoa. >> now, healthcare and pharma, i know people are talking about that. that's a place to park your money in times like this. two stocks that really stand out to me. unh, united healthcare and eli lilly. unh amazing top and bottom line numbers. also, this is very telling to me insiders in the company, they hold almost $2 billion worth of stock and technically the stock looks really strong and then eli
lilly with an alzheimer disease treatment in late stage clinical trial and just had positive news about it. it's absolutely a long way off from of course becoming reality but they have so many other things in the pipeline. this is one that makes this attractive. liz: well, guys, you know, as we look at what's going on here let's not ignore the gdp print that came in at 3.2%. that is certainly better than what was expected and just so people understand. each quarter, we get three print s at three different points , so that because they get more data in and they figure it out and sometimes it goes up sometimes it goes down so you get the prelim, the revision, and then you get the final. this is the final. compared to the previous one, which was certainly not 3.2% we are seeing that the consumer is still alive and kicking, teddy. they are still buying, and clearly, the picture is not as
bad which only means that the federal reserve is going to continue cutting, hiking rates rather, correct? >> well, yeah, absolutely, liz. i mean, we're in an environment where good economic news is going to be bad for the market because it simply reinforces the montra of the fed and those folks that keep looking, leading the tea leaves for signs that the fed is moderating their stance, quite frankly, i think they are just practicing wishful thinking, and wishing when it comes to the stock market is not a very good strategy. the reality is the economy continues to bump along. the fed will continue, they tell us they are going to do it. they are going to continue to raise rates maybe not as fast but rates are going up. what we need quite frankly is bad economic news because that would basically be good for the market because then perhaps maybe it would cause the fed to pause a little bit in their current strategy, but for the moment, i think we're in for difficult times. i mean, my year-end plays are
year-end plays that has nothing to do with our overall view of the market and that has not changed. cash is still king. we're still buying the three months treasury but we're doing year-end is simply a technical thing to take advantage of somewhat we think are cheap stocks for the very short-term. liz: well, you're not cheap, teddy, never. >> [laughter] thank you, liz. liz: i don't know why i said that. neither you, scott. we love you both. you're like gold and diamonds to us gentlemen, thank you and we wish you a very happy holiday. check the dow down 468 remember to blank out all of yesterday's gains it has to be down 526 bucks or more. what are we looking at here? a waffle maker? this item has become so hot because its gone viral on tiktok we've got a top shopping expert about the social media shopping trend this holiday season, and you're looking at video of fallen crypto kingpin sam bankman-fried. he has just left federal court in manhattan after he was sprung
from federal custody on a record $250 million bond. we've got the attorney who represented ponzi scheme ring leader bernie madoff about the music sbf is about to face, and we'll find out more about the deals, the terms of his deal , when it comes to that bail his parent's house is being used as collateral. closing bell we're 49 minutes away. dow is below 33,000 right now, down 473. the "clayman countdown" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ mercedes-benz is turning electric... completely on its head. bringing legendary design... and state-of-the-art technology... to a fully-electric suv.
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employees accessing the platform and now we have universities in georgia, alabama, and oklahoma banning students from using the chinese video app, it's not just teenagers who might get upset if tiktok is fully banned. it's retailers. tiktok and social media platform s have become the ultimate selling tool particularly for beauty brands. the charlotte tillbury highlight er for example. i know a lot of you men are like what is she talking about? this is one makeup product that ran out of stock, cleaned out for weeks on end after going viral on tiktok. other items that have seen booming sales after becoming social sensations, the mini waffle maker and stanley water tumblers. joining me now to dig into the latest consumer spending trends right before christmas international council of shop center ceo tom mcgee. tom, the tiktok issue is absolutely a thing. pew research came out with a
survey and it showed how important influencers and content creators are. what they found was that 30% of social media users in the u.s. did purchase a product after seeing it on tiktok. okay? tiktok and i would imagine instagram as well. what does this mean for the holiday shopping season? >> well, first of all the use, it's nice to be with you. first of all the use of social media is a big platform to drive traffic and consumer behavior for sure and that's been the case and other medium's historically as well, placements in movies and so fourth so it's a continuation of a trend that's been in existence for a long time. the holiday shopping season has been a very strong one. that's obviously the use of social media has contributed to it but just pent-up demand, shopper demand, it's the holiday season, our forecast was for 6.7 % growth over this holiday season. i think we'll beat or exceed that. liz: really? >> i do.
going into super saturday which is the last saturday before christmas weekend -- liz: day after tomorrow. no actually last saturday. liz: oh, last saturday? what's this saturday? >> christmas eve. liz: [laughter] okay. >> but going into super saturday, 50% of consumers had not yet completed their holiday shopping. 189 million people shopped over that super saturday weekend, so there was a lot of demand although this was a very long holiday season. there's still a lot of people that are going to go out shopping over this last week. liz: well, the likely winners, according to the experts, are a lot of them makeup makers so estee lauder is obviously a massive conglomerate, they have mac, just bought tom ford. this is a price point when it comes to the old, you know, in a recession people will still spring for a lipstick kind of cliche that they often use on wall street. then you've got ulta, and these
stocks actually performed the broader market over the past year because the s&p has been just dismal when you look at it year-to-date. how about the malls because if you see something on tiktok, and you can't find it online, you go to the mall. do they get any bump from this? >> well i think first of all, certainly physical shopping is going to get a bump over the course of the last couple weeks as you get closer to the holidays, but yeah. the reemergence of physical retail since the pandemic has been exceptionally strong. people realize they missed going out shopping whether it's at the mall or whether it's at the grocery anchor shop down the street from their house and the store has become really a multitude of needs. the traditional shopping experience but also become little mini fulfillment centers as well. certain things that happen during the course of the pandemic that we are now taking for granted like ordering online, ordering on your cell phone going right to the store to pick it up that kind of buy online pick-up in-store,
curbside pick-up et cetera have really transformed physical retail into multiple uses, traditional shopping but also mini fulfillment centers. liz: electronics though not the hot purchase this year. >> yeah, well i think that's what you see the impact of inflation. 90% of consumers are, that is their number one concern and so while people are still shopping, how they shop and what they buy and where they shop is being impacted. certainly people are still lean ing into apparel, toys, but higher ticket items like electronics, furniture have not done as well this holiday season liz: i want to take a live picture right now if we can of chicago o'hare airport's arrival area and departure area, the check-in. that weather is going to stop many many flights in its tracks, okay? you can see normally, there be just a huge push but we've got so many cancellations already and of course, people are stuck. they really are. here is flightaware the very
latest, 4,068 cancellations. that's actually wednesday. wednesday through saturday is what they are expecting. delays 13, 669. how does a storm, because there's always this conflicting discussion, affect shoppers? a lot of times they want to go inside a mall to pick-up things or they just stay home and they shop online. which do you see developing here >> well i think it's a wildcard it's hard to determine how it'll impact. obviously this will depend on the weather and people's safety is first and foremost of concern i think shopping online right now if you're looking to get something before christmas, you know, it can be challenging with shipping and so forth, so that is what drives people increasingly to the store over the course of the last few days, before christmas, is the need to pick-up that good before the holidays, so i can't predict how this storm will play out. that's certainly not a positive for shopping, but i do think you're going to see a lot of
people in the store just because of the number of people that haven't completed their holiday shopping yet. liz: i have lived in cleveland, i've driven through blizzards to shop, so man up everybody. good to see you tom happy holidays. >> happy holidays to you. liz: i guess i should say woman up. before you head out shopping for wherever your final destination is make sure to download the fox weather app for continuous coverage of the winter storm. this is a once in a century storm. they are calling it at least, get it at foxweather.com, the apple app store or google play. it is finally confirmed, the nfl has announced the winner of its sunday ticket subscription package. what a brutal battle it was for this thing. who struck a $2 billion deal with the league and who lost out the dark horse was the winner here we've got the story next, and sad news to report about a friend of our show. scott minor, the global chief investment officer at guggenheim partners has died after suffer ing a heart attack. he was in a regular workout when
it happened yesterday. he joined guggenheim shortly after its founding in 1999. he became a well-known commentator on the markets including right here on the "clayman countdown." there we were at davos. he was considered one of the great bond investors of our time. he was 63 years old. we miss you already, scott.
liz: fox business alert. now this is interesting, folks. we have just noted that the dow has erased 400-plus points from the losses at the moment. of course at the worst part of the session today it had gone down about 803 points now we're down about 382 points and we are watching this closely, maybe a few bulls slept late, waking up. we welcome you to the "clayman countdown." cleveland cliffs is melting up after reporting it expects higher annual priced fixed prices for steel in 2023 compar ed to 2022 as it has already renewed large portions of its contracts. the selling price per-ton for direct carbon steel automotive sales, it says will rise 100 bucks to $1,400. cleveland cliff shares up 10.7%. the ceo has been on here often and he has often stressed that they have very little, if any, exposure overseas. all their clients are here in the u.s.. u.s. clients are doing well. flat-rolled steel producer also expects lower input cots so
that's helping. google scoring a content touchdown after the nfl announced its sunday ticket subscription package will go to alphabet youtube tv. youtube will pay about $2 billion a year fort residential rights starting next season and this agreement, by the way, latinos seven years. directv had owned the rights since 1994 but did not put in a bid this time. apple and amazon were actually the ones most experts were saying you know, they will win the bidding war with google but they come out the losers on this deal. all three stocks are down right now. we've got alphabet lower by 2%, amazon losing 3.8% and apple is down 2.5%. investors are yanking pair bets off caesar's entertainment this hour after sports betting announced it's opening sports book at casino metro down 5.6%. it's puerto rico's largest casino as part of that deal caesars plans to launch its mobile app in puerto rico next
year. miller knowles shooting higher after the furniture maker reported adjusted fiscal second quarter earnings that beat analyst estimates. the company swung to a net profit versus a year ago loss and this is the maker the marshmallow sofa. it said sales rose 4% but warned fiscal third quarter sales may fall due to seasonal slowdowns. marshmallow sofa not to be confused with the mallowmar sofa, it's up 12.6%. breaking news ftx founder subpoena bankman-fried is out on $250 million bond after indicted on eight counts yesterday. eight counts today including securities fraud and money laundering in the wake of the spectacular collapse of his crypto exchange. up next, the man who represented the most notorious ponzi schemer in u.s. history, bernie
madoff. criminal attorney ira lee sorkin discusse s what's ahead for sbf who has plead guilty and turned state witness. next, closing bell we've got 29 minutes left. as i said we're coming off the lows but there's still significant red on the screen. it's the nasdaq getting hurt the most down 2.25% or 243 points led by the chips. we are coming right back and by the way we want to say because who knows what's going to happen in the final half hour, we'll go commercial free. don't move. when things go right too. like, when you score your dream job. sell your business. or discover she's smart... really smart. now what? here's what: you connect with prudential's rock-solid team serving over 50 million people. with investment, insurance and retirement know-how.
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no full bellies. all around the world, parents are struggling to feed their children. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. covid, conflict, inflation and climate have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime. and we're fed up. fed up with the fact that hunger robs kids of their holidays. fed up with the lack of progress. fed up with the injustice. help us brighten the lives of children all over the world by visiting getfedupnow.org. for as little as $10 a month, you can join 'save the children' as we support children and families in desperate need of our help. this is the perfect time of year to get fed up and give back. when you join the cause, your $10 monthly donation can help communities in need of life-saving treatments and nutrients, prevent children from dropping out of school.
support our work with communities and governments to help children go from short-term surviving to long-term thriving. and now thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give before december 31st can multiply up to 10 times the impact. that means more food, water, medicine and help for kids around the world. you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. childhood without food is unimaginable. this holiday season: get fed up. visit getfedupnow.org today. liz: prosecutors are calling it the largest pre-trial bond ever in a stunning decision from u.s. magistrate court judge gabrielle gornstein, former ftx ceo sam bankman-fried seen here leaving a new york city
courtroom was released today on $250 million bond while he awaits trial. so this is the moment on your screen that the 30-year-old left court today absolutely surround ed by camera crews who tried to chase him, obviously, get a picture of this man who had just flown in from the bahamas yesterday. sam bankman-fried faces eight charges including wire and securities fraud for his role in the collapse of his crypto exchange. he's going to be under house arrest at his parent's palo alto home wearing an electronic device and he spoke just once saying "yes, i do" when the judge asked if he understood that breaking these restrictions would mean his immediate arrest. connell mcshane live on pearl street outside the courthouse. connell, when is his next court appearance? connell: january 3. he's due back in court january 3 didn't have to enter a plea today so maybe we'll see that then but that's the next appearance. his parents home out in california put up as collateral to help secure that bond package
that you were talking about, which is only fitting because that's where he's been ordered to live, with his parents. stanford law professors in california as he now awaits trial for fraud related charges related to the collapse of ftx. we've been looking at these pictures of bankman-fried really little or no expression on his face when we saw him exiting the courthouse today. i'll give you a sense now of not only how it looked but how it sounded as sbf made his way to the car. >> backup. >> backup. >> get out of my car. >> [overlapping speakers] >> what do you say to your investors who have lost so much? connell: really not interested in taking my question there, tried to ask him what he would say to his investors but he got in the car, sat when he was in the courtroom today just right in between his lawyers. there was shackles on his ankles
we're told in the courtroom but he was listening as the prosecutor went through this bail package and said it be the largest he's ever seen, largest ever pre-trial bond. the only time he spoke the judge said hey, listen, do you understand these conditions of your release and he said "yes i do." i'll tell you what the other condition he needs to understand , two former colleague s are ready to testify against him one is caroline elli son former head of alameda research, that trading firm closely connected to ftx. she's plead guilty on seven counts ftx co-founder gary wang plead guilty on four counts. both are cooperating with prosecutors so here is this 30- year-old, sam bankman-fried, just months ago was heading up a company that was said to be valued at $32 billion himself a billion yonkers air, several times over, and now he's headed back to california to live at his parent s house and await trial on very serious charges that may send him to jail for a very long type. liz? liz: connell mcshane thank you very much. bankman-fried's $250 million
bail is the largest ever pre- trial bond as we said. eclipsing the $10 million bond ponzi schemer bernie bernie madoff got slapped within 2008 who was convicted of master minding a fraud that lost $64 billion of his client's money as bankman-fried waits for his next january 3 court appearance, knowing that two of his former executives, as connell just pointed out have struck a plea deal and will testify against him, what does the future hold for sbf? ira lee sorkin is the attorney who represented bernie madoff. ira joins me in a fox business exclusive and we want to disclose his firm minson gold has represented fox news corporation media. i want to tackle this bond issue right off the bat. why 250 million for this kid and 10 miion for bernie madoff? >> because the scope of the bernie madoff case was not as well-known as for this kid. that's the difference, and the government walked into it
very quickly in this particular case. they had cooperators. there were no cooperators of made off and the government didn't know as i said the scope of the madoff fraud. it wasn't 65 million it was a real loss of 20 billion. liz: right, 20 billion and then the rest on paper. >> all paper, yes. liz: let's talk about what we just saw out of the courthouse because there's some details i know our viewers want to know. first of all as he walked out who was the big guy holding his arm tightly with the mustache, that's not his lawyer right? >> no that probably was and we had the same thing for bernie madoff a private investigator as a security guard to protect him. madoff's life was threatened. it's a private investigator to guard him. liz: when you look at all these camera crews on the screen what goes through your mind? >> it's all over again, i've been there, done that when the scope of the madoff fraud
developed, it became a circus. his bail was $10 billion but he had the ankle bracelet, he had security, and the press just covered where he lived. there were cameras all over the place, satellite dishes even abc news from what i understand rented a place ink across street with a camera that could look right into his penthouse, so there was no way that he was going to skip and there doesn't seem to be a way that mr. bankman-fried was going to skip although i don't know whether there's going to be protection around his house. liz: well it is a very restrictive bond package, bail package. >> it is. it's restrictive because put aside the $250 million. if he skips, if he violates his bail conditions, the government will take the parent's house. that's the collateral for the $250 million. liz: he got out there in front of several tv cameras and journalists, just a couple of weeks ago, and again, he has to
surrender his passport so obviously he ain't going anywhere but he must also wear the electronic device as bernie madoff did but when he spoke with andrew ross sorkin, of the new york times he said one thing that to me and my team really put him, he put himself under the bus. here is that sound bite and i want you to comment on it. listen to sam bankman-fried. >> i made a lot of mistakes or things that i would have give anything to be able to do over again. i didn't ever try to commit fraud on anyone. liz: intentionally commit fraud but yet, he almost admitted some important issues there. would you have ever allowed your client to say something like that? >> when i was it's interviewed i said two words "shut up." liz: to bernie. >> no, when i was representing him, mark cohen, but shut up. don't talk, and whatever advice he got was bad advice to go out
and try to say "i didn't intend it." the real issue is the government had cooperate or s before the indictment came down, because the indictment alleges a series of conspiracies. you can't conspire with yourself there has to be at least two people, so when his indictment came down, it said numerous conspiracies which means there were other people involved. the government will charge them as well, and quite frankly, the number of conspiracies and the substantive counts of mail fraud, wire fraud, money laundering and so on are going to add up to a lot of exposure for him. liz: of the manhattan attorney came out and spoke, and not his, the governments, and damion williams is this gentlemen. you know him and you say -- >> smart man, a very good u.s. attorney. good selection. liz: here is what he said because they have the two important ex-executives who have agreed to help out but here is what he said about anybody else who might be involved.
>> if you participated in misconduct at ftx or alameda, now is the time to get ahead of it. we are moving quickly and our patience is not eternal. liz: how many people you think are going to start? >> i have no idea but i can tell you that the sec complaint, these are parallel proceedings, very generally and it happens often, the sec will come down with a civil complaint and the u.s. attorney department of justice will come down with a criminal indictment, okay? but the sec complaint as opposed to the indictment was very detailed which leads me to believe and i'm speculating because i don't know, that they've been investigating this for quite sometime before the bankruptcy. someone had as we say in this business ratted him out, someone had gone to the government, blew the whistle, began to talk about him, and ftx and the sec's ability to investigate quite frankly the sec put this together, and gave it to the u.s. attorney and
the u.s. attorney now then takes it and makes a criminal case out of it. liz: how damaging could caroline ellison his former girlfriend and ceo of former hedge fund alameda really be to him and was she smart to get out ahead of all of this and plead guilty? >> she had lawyers, went to the u.s. attorney, and i'm speculat ing. liz: but this is how it would work. >> her lawyers go to the u.s. attorney and says we have somebody whose exposed, we want to cut a deal with you. she had, as did the other fellow who pleaded. liz: gary wang. >> a cooperation agreement and all this has been laid out. she just didn't walk into court and plead guilty. she had negotiations on behalf of her by the lawyer and the u.s. attorney that setup a cooperation agreement where she would cooperate and plead guilty to one or more counts. she be exposed to a certain number of years in prison. liz: so she will go to prison? >> my guess is that yes, she's facing jail time. liz: time?
amount? >> no way to know. that's entirely up to the government and the judge in particular the judge whose going to sentence her. liz: so the issue with her and with sam bankman-fried was that he allegedly was stealing billions of ftx customer money by plugging, taking it and plug ging holes at alameda research because they had used this ftt, this token that they created out of thin air as collateral for loans other customers were giving alameda, so at some point, this does really look like a ponzi scheme, doesn't it? >> well it's a little bit different. bernie madoff did not use, for the most part, the money he took from investors. he used the money from investors to pay off other investors. liz: ponzi. >> that's the ponzi scheme and the ponzi scheme would not have fallen apart if the market hadn't crashed through the 2007- 2008 period of time when the market was in trouble. here, it appears that he just
dipped in, had no guidance from people who understood the process, the regulation and so on, dipped in and used the money for his own personal use. liz: when sam bankman-fried does the innocent "i screwed up" "i e ffed up" which was really not very el o went for an mit kid a son of stanford lawyers getting out there saying i didn't really, you know, know what was happening. he's the founder of this company he is quite a genius. do you buy that? >> no. if this was a one shot deal, an aboration, i didn't mean to rob the bank, i've never been in trouble before but something came over me, i went into the bank and i robbed the bank. okay. this went on for a couple of years and at some point in time, he had to have realized, i can't do this. i shouldn't be doing this , but it never occurred to him or maybe it did occur to him and his comments to the public are just not true.
liz: deliberate ignorance, willful blindness is not a defense. >> that's good. it's conscience avoidance and willful blindness where you simply close your eyes to it. over a two year period that's very difficult to argue that i was willfully blind and icon suspectly avoided this. hit went on for a couple of years. he's got a problem, and it's going to be a serious sentence. liz: ira sorkins through very much for illuminating what is expected to be the trial certainly of the wall street century, right? >> it's not likely he will go to trial. it's likely that he will cut a deal. it will help him at sentencing if he cuts a deal, admits responsibility. i'm not sure he's going to want to go to trial or his lawyers may say you go to trial you're facing more time if you're convicted, rather than pleading and getting before a judge and admit your responsibility. liz: final guess, how many years if he plead a deal?
>> there's no way to tell. under the federal system it's going to be up to the judge. it's up to the judge to ultimate decide what his sents ensemble is going to be but he's facing significant time. liz: ike, thank you. >> you're very welcome, thank you. liz: closing bell 10 minutes away take a look at the stock market here off the lows even moreso. dow is down 369 points. the s&p down 58, and sorry, i leaned over because i was looking for a certain part of my notes, sorry. s&p so, yesterday, the s&p jumped 56 points, okay? so we pretty much blanked that gain, but we're watching it very closely. maybe s&p comes off those lows still, and then the nasdaq down 232. the philly semiconductor index we started at the top of the hour explaining that the semiconductors or semi equipment makers are getting obliterated at the moment. down 3.99%, not a pretty picture but off the lows of the session certainly. top laggards on the philly semi
index include and this is not going to be a surprise to you because we already talked about lam research, nvidia, applied materials kla tencor, and marvel. shares of amc had a horrible session. they have now turned around at least for eight but amc is still down 8.7% as we head near to the closing bell on news of ceo adam aron's latest from pose all for a one for 10 reverse stock split which would further, obviously, dilute shareholders. charlie gasparino. what does this mean for amc survival? charlie: we should point out it has been up all day. liz: 77% what's that about? charlie: i'll tell you why because the way they are doing this maneuver, ape will converge basically eliminate the ape. it's going to converge with the common, so it's going to be one stock and then there's a bunch of other stuff that happens but it's contingent on shareholder approval. ike is an old source of mine one of the smartest men in white
collar. liz: great. charlie: one thing i will say that you asked about amount of time, it's very hard to figure that out one thing i've been hearing from lawyers is it will be dependent on how much money they get back. i don't mean gross amount. if madoff, his ex-client 50% was able to clawback and that was 50 % of the original investment they were able to get so most people were whole to some extent if this is zero, whoa, not good. the other thing is nobody should be surprised about carolyn elli son and the other one. we reported it on this show a week ago. they were dealing, they hired wi lmerhale, the one firm they wanted to cut the deal with okay so you convert, the ape goes away if shareholders approve. it becomes one stock, amc. same value, but it is merged together and on top of that there's one-for-10 reverse stock split so instead of a combined
value put them up before it's like 550 whatever it was could be lower in the days to come. that will be if it's does that change the metrics of amc, your holdings? no. a lot of this is superficial but if if amc shareholders approve this plan, it probably will be approved, i spoke with company officials they have a very good feeling for this i will tell you why in a minute, if they approve, they will sell more stock, there will be more dilution. here is the thing i say, adam aron will take this out of the bankruptcy realm if this thing happens. he will sell more stock, pay down debt, the guy is very resource if you recall, he knows what he is doing for this. if you're a shareholder, your value will be diluted. just so you know, what is essentially doing asking
shareholders to throw a lifeline to the company for the bonds they hold. bonds are a good play. they trade deep dispoint. what happens to the ape? the ape pose away. why would shareholders agree to this plan? if they bought ape, they issued a ton of ape, worth 60 cents, it will be worth more? the ape will vote for this. liz: it's a buck 21 now. >> because if it will converge with the other one, bought it at 60, goes up to 1.21, combined with the other one. you vote for this plan. see what i'm saying? if you know a little bit about stocks, you're being diluted. there is really no difference between one for 10 stock split, right or reverse split and you holding a four 50-dollar stock, than holding the ape at 60 sent, the other one at 4.50, whatever
it is. remember that is what is going on here. liz: charlie, thank you. mr. gasparino. tech is a laggard. cathie wood ark innovation packed with momentum technology names past couple years, hitting a newfy of five year low on monday. as wood sent out a recent memo, the fund is willing to take on short-term profit for long-term growth. i don't even understand this. short-term losses you mean, short-term losses? third point daniel lobe tweeted this response, anyone using schooling use this memo at treatise to mindset of stonk, a lot of wall street bet the investors from reddit chat rooms who hold on to stock, some say for longer than they should.
"countdown" closer pain could be long term grain. 120 billion in assets under management. gene goldman. you kind of agree with cathie wood, particularly on a day with techs are getting hammered? >> thank you, liz for having me on your show. today, we see three things driving stocks. gdp came in above expectations, likely the fed little raise rates more, lei, leading economic index fell ninth month in a row. the reason we like the index it tends to peak before the economy peaks in a year in advance. you have uncertain economic data, you have got uncertain earnings, semiconductor company missed, laying off 10% of their workforce. liz: micron. >> high valuations. p-e ratio on s&p is forward earnings of 17.
doesn't make sense with inflation well over 3%, 10-year treasury over 3.66. with that said though, near term pain, long term gain. we do like technology. we think technology valuations have improved. think about environment where you have significant amounts of inflation. companies are trying to raise productivity without driving wage costs higher. how do you do it? software, internet services are areas we like. other areas we like, industrials. given exposure to agriculture and given exposure to defense. our favorite sector, consumer discretionary. earnings growth, consumer discretionary highest for next year but one of the worst performers this year. liz: sure, if you look at some of the consumer discretionary etfs, one called wont, consumer discretionary bull. it is not is not a good picture here. don't you, gene, concede that
the s&p may drop much lower than it is right now, that it will be a bumpy ride? if you buy. nvidia today for example, it has a good chance of pauling even more? because a lot of people are glitery eyed about nvidia, it's a solid company, very, very interesting, lot of potential but maybe the valuation got very rich? >> i can't comment about nvidia but the market you have a great point. earnings for the s&p are expect the 5%. few month ago it was only 10%. ers need to be revised a little lower for the s&p next year. this will put pressure on stocks for the first part of the year. the good news, say we have the recession, most anticipated recession we have that, have that in the second, third quarter, valuations become much more attractive. second half of the year looks like a better story especially if stocks price in a recovery. liz: gene, less than a minute left, federal reserve probably
continuing to hike rates. how much will that negatively effect stocks? >> we've been saying the fed, coined a term in our team, hawk ward. raising rates dramatically but they're awkward. lei as we talked about, consumer savings, 1year lows. we're headed towards recession most likely. another time on your show we talk about the -- recession, the fed is expected to raise rates, according to them basis --5 basis points. we think less. [closing bell rings] liz: hawk ward, snapping a two day win streak but off the lows of the session. that will do it. "kudlow" is next. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. the haim duck spending omnibus bill without a doubt turned into the ugliest omnibus bill ever. if that weren'