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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  September 18, 2011 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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double dip recession, are republicans ready to deal with the white house? we will ask the man with his own plan to get the country moving, congressman paul ryan, chairman of the house budget committee. then, fresh off the campaign trail, a presidential candidate with his own ideas on boosting the economy. we continue our series of 2012 one on one interviews with businessman herman cain. plus, the fox news google republican party of florida debate is now just days away. we will ask our sunday group if top contender rick perry can cement his status thursday as the frontrunner or is in danger of flaming out, all right now on "fox news sunday." and h hello again from fox news in washington. on monday, president obama will announce his plan to cut the nation's debt and to pay for his jobs program. and we are now hearing he will
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propose a minimum tax rate for millionaires as part of the package. but will republicans agree to any of it? to get an early response we turned to congressman paul ryan, chairman of the house budget committee and the gop pointman on the issues who joins us now from his home state of wisconsin. congressman, while little has been confirmed, here is an outline of what the president is reportedly likely to announce tomorrow. let's put it up on the screen. $4 trillion in savings. at least $340 billion from entitlement reform to medicare and medicaid. at least $800 billion in revenue increases including that new plan to ensure millionaires pay at least the same percentage of earnings as middle income tax payers. let's start if we can, sir,, with entitlements. do you see anything positive about a democratic president taking on entitlements? >> i sure do but i don't know if there is anything positive in the plan. i want to keep an open mind and see what it is. from what we hear originally it
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looks like just more price controls and reimbursement cuts to doctors and other healthcare providers which leads to restricted access and denied care to seniors. they already have the new panel starting next year which will further price control medicare providers. i don't think that is going to work if that is what he is going to continue doing. permanent tax increases on job creators doesn't work to grow the economy. it is fueling the uncertainty hurting job growth right now. most small businesses file taxes as individuals. you are raising taxes on the job creators where more than half of americans get their jobs from in the country. we want to see progrowth economics and even the president's fiscal commission saying with democrats on there, lower tax rates and broaden the tax base for economic growth and more nickel and dime reimbursement cuts to healthcare providers will lead to less access to care for
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senior si citizens. >> chris: i want to stick on the entitlements for a moment. the democrats have been hammering the gop ever sense they supported your plan, the ryan plan that would have created a premium support program. some people call it a voucher plan would have reduced -- made healthcare costs more expensive for medicare recipients starting in ten years. does the fact that the president is addressing any entitlement reform takele bulls eye off the gop's back? >> it is constructive in that he is acknowledging there is a big problem with the programs. and he has made that acknowledgement a couple of times saying they are going to go bankrupt if we don't do something to fix them. that is good. the next question is what is the best way to fix them. we believe it is not to jeopardize the access to the benefits for current seniors. leave them alone. don't disrupt the services and have a new reform program for younger generations with more
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choice and more competition. they choose among competing plans just like in medicare advantage or the part d benefit. we have a strengthened program like the one in congress. we make medicare solvent and don't do it by restricting access to drugs, restricting access to senior care like doctors and hospitals. the problem is what the president has said he is going to do and what his new law does is puts 15 bureaucrats in charge of rationing prices to providers for current seniors. we are seeing more price controls and rationing, no plan to save it from bankruptcy. we preserve it for current seniors and have a new system that works like what we have in congress that prevents the program from going bankrupt in the first place. we think that is a better idea. i'm glad he is actually wading into the discussion. now, let's talk about what ideas work the best. >> chris: let's turn to taxes and there is a lot to talk
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about. i want to break it down into buy the size pieces. first of all, what do you think it is all over the papers, this idea of a new minimum tax rate for millionaires to ensure that they pay at least the same percentage of their money that they get -- their income as middle income taxpayerers? >> i guess what he is saying he is going to raise the tax on capital at ordinary income tax rates. racing dividends. if you tax something more you get less of it. if you tax investment more you. get less investment. at a time when experts are telling us including like i said the fiscal commission we should lower tax rates on investment and job creation by getting rid of the loopholes to create economic growth. we think this is going in the wrong direction. let's not forget that under the current law the top tax rate on individuals and small businesses in 2013 goes to
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about 44.8%. we have employers here in wisconsin that pay that tax rate who are competing against countries taxing their businesses like 16% in canada. almost 21% going in england. 25% in china. the world taxes their businesses at 25% and he is saying we will tax these job creators at above 45% with the new tax. what it does is it adds further instability to the system, more uncertainty and punishes job creation and those people who create jobs. class warfare, chris, may make for really good politics but it makes for rotten economics. are we don't need a system that seeks to divide people. we don't need a system that seeks to prey on people's fear envy and anxiety. we need a system that creates job and innovation and removes the barriers for entrepreneurs to hire people. >> this is being called the buffett rule because it comes after warren buffett, the
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multibillionaire said i end up because i get so much of my none any from capital gains i end up paying a lower effective tax rate than my secretary who gets her money in salary. what about the question of salary, sir? >> what he forgets to mention on that, that is a double tax. capital gains and dividends are money that has been taxed before based on income. the first level of tax on the money. then capital gains and dividends tax you are paying the tax again on the money that earned this. we have done this before. raised capital gains taxes and dividend taxes. we hurt economic growth. we stifeled investment in our economy. if we tax investment and job creation more you will get less of it. like i said, this looks like to me not a very good sign because t looks like the president wants to move down the class warfar path. that will divide the country more, attack job creators,
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divide people and it doesn't grow the economy. go to that has a common sense idea to lower tax on these things by going after loopholes. the same millionaires are the people that use the tax shelters which we want to get rid of. >> chris: i don't mean to interrupt but i have a lot to ask you about, congressman. the president is proprosing almost $500 billion in increased revenue to pay for his jobs plan. we are told he is likely to propose at least another $800 billion in increased revenue as part of tax reform as deficit reduction. are you saying that congress and i'm talking specifically about the republican-controlled house won't go for any of it? >> you already have a $1.5 trillion tax increase coming in current law starting in 2013. now, talking about another $1.3 trillion tax increase on top of that? he is giving us a stimulus bill
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which is like the hold, just half as large. temporary tax rebates with increases and then another tax increase on job creators and successful small businesses in addition to that? why on earth would we go with that? especially when the problem is spending. we want to cut spending and reform the entitlement programs and if we do it the right way it doesn't jeopardize current seniors and we want to have a tax system that is not designed on picking and choosing winners in society but on >> the democrats are demanding more revenue be part of that. if you don't get that, you get automatic triggers which
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include 600 billion dollars in an automatic -- in automatic cuts to the pentagon. >> chris, the president proposed 13 trillion in new debt in his budget. clearly, we can cut 1.2 trillion. the president's planning on spending 46 trillion over the next 10 years. can't we cut 1.5 or 1.2 from that? that shouldn't be that tough. we see the super committee as an opportunity get another down payment on debt through spending cuts. where i thought we had a shot at bipartisanship was business tax reform. president says get rid of the loopholes. simple system that helps us compete. that's what i was hoping we could get. i thought the super committee might have been a good vehicle to do that. if we are going to do class warfare and try to get tax increases out of this, i don't think much can come of it. if we can get a 1.5 trillion
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spending cut we could get something done. we should hold our expectations down on the commit. there's so much spending that needs to be cut. we propose 6.2 trillion in cuts in our budget. clearly, democrats could work with us and get 1.5. >> chris: what do you think the chances are the country is headed for a double dip recession? >> economists tell me it is about 50/50. because of uncertainty. you've got 219 new expensive regulations on the take, coming from the obama administration to the economy in year. a massive tax increase coming in 2013. now permanent tax of stimulus and this new proposal for more tax increases helps shutdown our economy. and then you have all these european problems. i do not think the president is doing what we need to grow this economy.
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>> chris: a quick checklist of the president's plan. money to build roads and bridges. the so-called shovel-ready projects. are you going for that? >> well, they are not so shovel-ready, number one. we are going to do a new highway reauthorization that's the normal course of business. we don't want to do it with borrowed money. we believe infrastructure is good but we don't that i will work. temporary tax rebates tried in the bush administration failed then too. when you pay for them with -- >> chris: so, no to infrastructure as part of the jobs plan and no to aid to the stays to keep first responders and teachers on the payroll? >> that's the constitutional responsibility of state governments not federal s. >> chris: i just need go through this quickly. how about some of those payroll tax cuts?
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retraining for long term unemployed? >> the georgia plan sounds interesting that's something we are looking at an unemployment reform. temporary tax rebates like i said, i'm all for letting people keep more of their own money. this particular idea was tried in the bush administration, early in the obama administration and hasn't worked. when you are taking temporary rebates and paying for them with permanent tax increases defeating. we don't want to go with ideas that have already proven to fail. we want to advance solutions that are proven to work these don't do that. we think business tax reforms are helpful he didn't put any ideas in the bill he sent us. >> chris: president obama has been going around the country over the last couple weeks. he says, if your party blocks his plan, he will blame the gop for the continued unemployment. let's look at the president. >> the president: it is time for the people you sent to washington to put country
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before party. to stop worrying so much about their jobs and start worrying more about yours. >> chris: congressman ryan, can't he pull a harry truman and campaign next year against a "do nothing" congress? >> we passed a budget that balances the budget, pays off a debt, reforms the tax code by getting rid of loopholes and lower tax rates. we passed regulatory reform. new energy development to explore production. we've passed so many bills out of the house to create jobs and they are sitting in the senate. if he wants to run against a do nothing congress he should focus on do nothing senate democrats. it has been 817 days since they bettered to pass a budget. we passed ours, on time. -- we look at where the problem is, i would argue it is the senate not doing a budget for two years is ridiculous. we have a difference of opinion on how best to fix these problems. when the president does things like this, it leads know believe that he's not in
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bipartisan consensus us is-making mode he's in campaign mode and that is not good for our economy. >> chris: solyndra the solar panel making company that got 535 million dollar federal loan guarantee from the government as part of the first stimulus plan. the company just went bankrupt, laying off 1,000 workers and leaving taxpayers footing the bill. less than a minute. what is the lesson of solyndra? >> there are billions more of that kind of spending that cape out of stimulus that will produce these kinds of results, we fear. -- this is industrial policy and crony capitalism at its worse. we shouldn't be picking winners and losers in washington. we should be setting the condition for economic growth so the private sector can create jobs. washington is not good at picking winners and losers, so we shouldn't try. >> chris: congressman ryan,
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thank you, always a pleasure to talk with you sir. >> thank you chris. >> chris: up next her hand cain on his 9, 9, 9 pan to jumpstart the economy. eople uses to do dumb things? man 1: send, that is the weekend. app grapgic: yeah dawg! man 2: allow me to crack...the bubbly! man 1: don't mind if i doozy. man 3: is a gentleman with a brostache invited over to this party? man 1: only if he's ready to rock! ♪ sfx: guitar and trumpet jam vo: geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. it's high time to make our floor look better and feel softer. ♪ how 'bout we start with the guaranteed low price on the carpet... the pad, and installation. let's get peace of mind for a lifetime. itll adds up to better carpet at a better price and a great-looking room, transformed. more saving. more doing.
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>> chris: the republican presidential race is now at a crucial stage with the fox news google florida gop debate set for next thursday. >> chris: we continue our 201012, one-on-one series
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>> bad idea as representative ryan say. you tax something more, you get less of it. i couldn't have said it any better than representative ryan. it is a bad idea. secondly, if you were to tack the millionaires more using that bad idea, it still doesn't solve the problem of how do you reduce spending? that's just class warfare flowering, in my opinion. and it is not going to help. >> chris: generally speak wag do you think of the president's deficit rediagnostic plan? he is going to address entitles -- entitlements. he's going to ask for supposedly 800 billion dollars, including this millionaire's tax in new revenue. >> right. the speech that he gave that was supposed to be a jobs plan was not. he put one thing this there to take the payroll tax down by 50% for the employer and employee. that is small potatoes compared to what the big problems are. my anticipation with a lot of other people, when he comes
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out saying how he's going to pay for i, it is going to be filled with more -- pay for it, it is going to be filled with more tax increases. when obamacare passed people didn't realize there was a 3.8% surtax hidden into the health care legislation. it is going to be a hodgepodge of taxes and sneak attaxes. >> chris: any credit for putting -- this was a big criticism of him during the debt debate he wasn't putting specifics on the take about entitlements, do you give him credit that he's going to have something specific about that? >> if he puts specifics out there, i will give him credit for it. i can't get excited about the president saying he's going to put specifics on the take, until we see the specifics. because too often we've heard a lot promises but didn't get the specifics that i believe most people were looking for. >> chris: you talk about the fact that you are a businessman.
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you come from a different sector than all these politicians what about the argument that you hear from top officials in the economic side, like fed chairman bernanke, and top economists in the private markets who say, yes we do need long term deficit reduction in the short term if all you do is cut spending, that is going to be a drag on growth and it is going to drive in country into a double dip recession? if we are not already headed there. >> we are headed to a double dip recession. the discuss has been mostly about where do you cut spending and where do you spend more? democrats want to spend more that puts the republicans on the defensive of trying to figure out how we not . my focus is growth that should bring everybody together. if we focus on getting serious about growing the economy, which this president is not, because he's not using fundamental economic guiding principles. the biggest one that this president and the administration have no clue frankly, is that the business
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sector is the engine that drives economic growth. that is one of the guiding principles for the plan that you mentioned that i have put on the table called 9, 9, 9. >> chris: we are going to get to that in a minute. >> business sector. this president continues to come up with ideas that is going to punish the business sector, slow down the business sector. as representative ryan mentioned, going to create more uncertainty for the business sector. we don't know what the tax rate structure going to be beginning 2013, less than a year and a half away. uncertainty killing this economy. >> chris: what about the idea that the president is offering, let's cut the payroll tax rate, not just for employees, but employers as well. and give a tax credit to businesses that -- small businesses that hire new people or give a raise to people already on the payroll. >> cutting the payroll tax by 50% is too little, too late. it is not deep enough. plus, if you only do that and
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you don't cut the top corporate and personal tax rates like i've proposed prior to my new plan if you don't suspend taxes on repatriated profits you have not provided any . yes, he put his toe in the water on that. but he didn't go far enough. -- it is still, still mostly with more spending, more trinkets, more in the tax code that the business community can't get excited about. >> chris: before we get to your plan. solyndra, the solar panel manufacturer got a half billion dollar federal:guarantee, just went bankrupt, laid off 1,000 workers. we the taxpayers end up footing the bill. do you think was a good faith effort on the president's part to boost, maybe misguided but good faith to boost the green energy industry or do you think he was trying to help one of his supporters? >> twoeupbgs this. first he was trying to help one of his political
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supporter. it would4ñ have been good faith if halfway through this waste of money they had stopped. according to the reports that we've seen, they didn't stop. and they knew this company was going down the tubes. i don't think it was a good faith effort to boost his green energy business. i was bad decision-making. and an attempt to select oners and losers. as representative ryan said, i keep referring to him, but he's right on. government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers, because most of the time they pick the losers that's what solyndra is about. >> chris: you are now pushing what you call the 9, 9, 9 plan for economic growth. let's break it down. a 9% corporate flat tax. 9% personal flat tax and 9% national sales tax. you would eliminate payroll tax, estate tax and tax on capital gains. question, what do you think that would do for the economy? >> it would boost the economy. here's why:
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think about the fact that corporations now are looking at for the next year and few months, a 35% corporate tax rate. to wake up and say you mean the tax rate is going to be 9%? that is going to inspire the business community. secondly, small businesses which generate most jobs are going to be excited. it is going to treat subchapter s and s corporations the same. the president doesn't understand and a lot of people don't understand when he throws around numbers like everybody making over $250,000 impose another tax, he's punishing small business. with the subchapter s corporation, if you eke out a profit, you have to run it through your personal income tax and you could be penalized, if you make too much money. >> chris: you say this plan would be revenue neutral. reduce rates, lower rates, eliminate deductions and we would end up with the same amount of total revenue for the government as what we currently have. we went to your website to try
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to check this out. there is no explanation on your website how you arrived at 9, 9, 9 or how the numbers add up. >> i had some of the best economists in this country help me to develop in plan. you know my background is mathematics. it was a simple regression analysis. we took the government data and looked at how much tax revenue came from personal income tax, corporate tax, how much came from capital gains tax, how much revenue came from the death tax. we added them up. you do a simple regression analysis and say in order to reduce this much on corporate income, personal income and national sales tax, what should that number be, if we equally break up those three? simple regression analysis. >> chris: you say that and you've just repeated this plan was researched and developed by some of the leading economic thinkers in the country. again, we looked at your website.
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no mention of anyone. >> no, i haven't put them on there. the most important thing was the plan. we are following up now with an official scoring of my plan. because the way it was derived was so simple, to produce such a simple concept, we didn't make that a priority. >> chris: let me ask you. mitt romney came out with a 59 point plan on jobs. glenda hubbard the dean of columbia business school and was chairman of the council of economic advisers for george w. bush. wrote the forward. helped him develop the plan. tell me the name of one of these leading economic thinkers who helped you come up with this plan? >> the chairman of my economic advisers is a gentleman by the name of rich lowry out of cleveland, ohio. he worked with a couple other people, frankly that are well-known that i'm not at liberty to mention their names. >> chris: why not? >> because they have their own independent businesses and i don't want to compromise their individuality. when they tell me it is okay,
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i will mention it. trust me, a couple of people you know very well. i don't want to compromise their -- chris wouldn't they be proud if this is a great plan? >> they would be proud after i get it passed. no, chris i got some people that helped me go through the thinking on this that i'm not going to compromise their confidentiality just to prove to people that this is a well thought out plan. >> chris: let me say, there isn't a lot of back-up. we don't have the -- we tried to do our own rough analysis. and you are better at this idea of regression analysis than we are. it looks to us like under your plan corporations and the wealthy will end up paying a considerably less than they currently do and lower income people, particularly the 45% roughly of americans who don't pay any income tax now will end up paying more, true? >> no, not true. everybody who works pays the payroll tax. which is fifteen.3%.
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even -- which is fifteen.3%. if you don't on a corporation your tax guess from 15.3 to 9. on the national -- >> chris: what about 45% who don't pay any income tax now? >> a good economic growth plan should not be designed to help more people not pay taxes. let me give you the statistic as to why. 50% of the taxpayers, pay 97% of the taxes. what are we supposed to do get that number 50% paying 100%? no. >> chris: i'm not saying it is wrong. >> they are going to end up paying some taxes but not necessarily more. here's why, the individual taxpayer will decide, how they spend their money in terms of the 9% sales tax. their behavior will determine how much tax they pay. only if they spend every dime
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they make will they pay the full 9%. it will encourage savings and people to be more responsible for their own decision-making. chris list mr. cain, two leave it there. it -- chris mr. cain, we have to leave it there. we'll have to color it more. >> we will have it officially scored. i'm going to try to get my advisers to allow know use their name. >> chris: we would like to have them and you back. see you thursday in florida. >> i'll be there. >> chris: more on the gop presidential contest as the new front-runner cop unheavy fire. we'll ask our sunday group if rick perry can hold up to all the attacks.
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. question is, do you still believe social security should be ended as a federal program and return to the states?
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>> i think we ought to have a conversation -- >> we are having that right now governor. we are running for president. >> chris: welsh the fireworks from the last debate when all eyes and tough words were aimed at perry. it is time for our sunday group. paul gigot. evan bayh. bill kristol. and juan williams. rick perry has been in the race, five weeks now at the top of the polls based on his strong record of job creation in texas. and this visceral connection he has to tea partiers and evangelicals. but, as we saw in this last debate he has shown real vulnerabilities. big picture, paul what is your take on perry? >> he came out very strong because being appeal to several of the different s of the republican coalition. cultural conservatives, economic conservatives based on his texas record. didn't have a big foreign
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policy record, as he showed in those debates. he has the potential. i he's been underming that with her performance. he has shown he hasn't thought deepably a lot of these subs. hasn't defended his jobs record well in texas. on social security he's got a vulnerability calling it a ponzi scheme. and a monstrous lie. which even if you are a libertarian and think it is technically true is not the way to reassure voters in a way this will give them the confidence that you can reform it. i think that's a big vulnerability for him. you see romney going after that and saying he can beat obama, he's able, so go with me. chris senator bayh? >> it looks like the republican party back to 10 tkphapbments. from a democratic perspective this is great. it plays into the strategy of making it a choice between to people, rather than a
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referendum on the state of the nation. rick going to pick up some baggage. social security as paul mentioned this could go on for a while. both candidates have money, romney and perry. republicans have again from a winner take all system. there seems to be a level of personal enmity between the two. that can on be helpful to the democratic party. >> bill, perry has problems, not just social security, he has this issue where he sign add executive order later overturned by the state legislature. 6th grade girls would have to get this vaccine against the hpv virus which causes cervical cancer. he has a moderate record on immigration in texas. which is being attacked from the right what should he be most worried about right now? >> i think he can handle each of these issues. he can win whether social security is sustainable as it
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now exists. >> i don't think anybody agrees it is sustainable as it now exists. >> he used ponzi scheme, i don't that i is going to hurt him that badly and he can correct his silly statement on afghanistan. it is more of a question when voters step back and look at him, do they think he's up to being president? i don't think any one of these issues is particularly damaging. i think in the debates, he's new to it, he hasn't been planning to run until a couple months ago. he has to show improvement over the next couple of debates. you would have to favor him in the current field. i still he has a slightly better chance than romney hard to see anyone else in the current field coming up. this still may not be the whole field. i think governor christie could get in. i've given up on paul ryan. but i gotta think if you are christie, you think maybe i
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owe it to the party, to the country to run. >> juan, i think the tremendous disadvantage perry is at, getting in the race so late. that in romney's case he's had five years to work out the kinks in perry's case he's in his first debate when the other guys have had more experience, training, vetting. >> he just hasn't been on the national stage that's his biggest liability the american people don't know him. something like the ponzi scheme comment comes across to many americans as dangerous. there's a gallup poll this weeks that indicates it damages him with a third of independent voters. they wouldn't support someone who uses that kind of talk. you combine that with his talk about bernanke, if bernanke increases the money supply it could be tremendous son news. talk of succession. rhetoric maybe intended to feed the base but increases
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the sense that maybe he's not ready. his performance in the debates have not been reassuring. people love his presence. i don't think anybody would say he doesn't belong there. the question is, is there someone that can -- is this someone that can be elected. would he run strongly against president obama? there's no indication at this point that is who he is. >> let's turn to mitt romney. let's put it up on the screen. this week did something i have never seen in is an e-mail they sent out to reporters. they opened up their opposition research. they sent reporters a list of questions and the back-up for them, tough questions, embarrassing questions to ask rick perry on the campaign trail. your sense, paul gigot of how romney is handling the fact that he is not alone at the top any more? >> he's practiced at this. he shows that in the debates. he has a well oiled machine. i get e-mails constantly from
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the romney campaign, nothing from the perry campaign. romney has a problem, he's playing it safe this may be a problem this year. that's the -- not proposing a tax cut. not doing anything specific on social security or medicare. that's the conventional politics. don't take any risklr put details on the take. is this a conventional year? you have a lot of republican voters who want people to show leadership. they want somebody to say if we win we have to reform the government. here's how. romney is not. he's playing a conventional, political game. in what may not be the right year to do so. >> this could be good for romney. if perry is not guarded enough, romney has been too guarded. remember when he was being heckled a few weeks ago and go angry? that offered a sense of authenticity in him not present before and the base of the republican party reacted well to that. it could be this back and
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forth and what appears to be genuine personal dislike between the two could bring out a more compelling romney. >> go ahead. >> that could happen. >> one fact, the poll that came out friday the most recent that captures some of the post last monday night's debate sentiment perry at -- half of the perry and romney voters say they have reservations about those candidates. it remains an open race. there's not a front-runner. [ talking over each other ] >> open race in the sense six other people on the stage? you see one of them? >> no one is above 7 in that poll. i don't totally rule out one could takeoff a little. more likely opportunity there is among, if you add up all the minor candidates a third of the republicans in poll are saying they don't prefer any of the current candidates. plenty of room for christie. >> get countries -- get
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christie on next week we'll have the debate. if perry or romney do well i might withdraw. if they don't get christie on the show next sunday. [ talking over each other ] >> your discontent does not spread across the gop. since perry has come this most republicans are -- >> half. >> it is a huge shift since perry has ended. you have to give him that much credit. the debates from -- seems to me that have created a sense of discontent this week we had poverty numbers cop out. big issues in american society about jobs. yet, they are arguing about the vaccinations in texas for little girls and suggestions that it causes retardation, madness when you think about republicans cheering on death penalty issues. saying a motorcyclist should be allowed to die if he doesn't have health insurance. it makes the gop look like >> how does barack obama look? >> if you ask the american
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people about his jobs plan they say a good idea? >> how about the economy >> we all know the numbers. obama's numbers are down. congress' numbers are down. >> if it is a referendum he has trouble if it is a choice he has a real chance if the republican choice cannot appeal to moderates and independents. these debates are pulling the republican field further right particularly in florida where they may have trouble on social security. >> god got to take a break. when we come back, -- can the president plan his jobs plan. what about all that money that went to solyndra. my doctor told me calcium is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose. citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal. growing the perfect prune plum is an art form. and now, we present a true masterpiece: d'noir prunes. they're delicious.
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the scandal would own be exploitable if the president had made with this one company
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the poster child for the program. >> if he had toured the solyndra facilities. or mewith the ceo or praised its cutting-edge ingenuity in a speech that in retrospect will seem ill-advised. >> the president: the true engine of economic growth will always be companies like solyndra. >> oops. our pal jon stewart joining the growing chorus of criticism of solyndra got a federal loan guarantee now bankrupt leaving taxpayers on the hook. more bad news for the president. he's going around the country pitching his jobs plan. some would call it stimulus two the time we find out about in company which got a half billion dollars from the first stimulus, solyndra. what do you think is the lesson of solyndra? >> a lesson whether or not there's favoritism in the giving of the loan.
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we may not find out there was much. still not just a metaphor for the obama policy. it is the obama policy. the idea that you can politically allocate capital, you can have government direct investment and create jobs, you can create wealth. the fact is, it can. we discovered that. 39 billion dollars worth of these energy department loans in addition to sew . how many jobs have they created? 4,000, that's 10 million dollars a job. juan is better at math than i am. that's not a lot of jobs. you have this, i think wide open criticism that is available to the republicans to say look, this is how they think the economy works. it hasn't worked. here's our alternative. they ought to be talking the solyndra economy. >> senator, i have exactly the numbers that have come out on this let's put them up on the screen. it is pretty stunning. this loan for solyndra was part of a 38.6 billion dollar program to butte green energy.
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it reportedly has created -- 3,545 s that works out to 10.88 million dollars per job. senator? >> my understanding is that there are other loans, several $in the pipeline that will create self -- several thousand more jobs. maybe six or seven million dollars per job. >> a gee the government shouldn't be in this -- i agree the government shouldn't be in this kind of business. the problem is the chinese are. do we try and compete? as long as we are involved we have that choice. the only way to an very the chance of making a mistake is do nothing and the chinese control the entire market that's something that would not be in the best interest of our country. >> is that the answer bill. you have to command and
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control the economy in china. >> you have lower wages in . if we are going to compete and simple manufacturing for solar panels, good luck with the subsidies we are going to need for that the chinese can make solar panels more cheaply let's support them. i do think solyndra loan is a metaphor, a kind of an example of the stimulus in particular. a friend of mine said it is bad enough try to pick winners and loser the obama administration has a particular knack for picking losers. highlighting this loser. it is a bad policy, i'm not sure there isn't a real scandal too. it is amazing the official in charge of this at the energy department, had to recuse himself on the solyndra loan. because it was his wife's law firm that represented them. i think republicans feed to make this the example of crony capitalism. who was solyndra's adviser in
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getting this loan from the government? goldman sachs. the whole crony capitalism, bailout and stimulus, needs to be a focus of attention by republicans who then need to explain how markets really should work. >> i have to switch subjects. i want you to talk about the fact that the president is going to tomorrow introduce his big plan to the super commit toy cut the deficit we are told by -- super committee to cut the deficit. this millionaire's tax to ensure that millionaires pay at least as high a percentage of their income as middle income taxpayers do. what do you think? >> i think it is a populist appeal by the president that according to the polls is a winner. most americans think the millionaire should be paying more. the idea that warren buffet has made himself the poster child. he's paying of course taxes on
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his dividends. it is a huge differential and people are saying that is not fair. if we are serious about addressing deficit spending, serious about not taxing people who make 250, certainly, you can understand why we would tax people who make more than a million. >> paul your reaction to the millionaire's tax in particular. in general to what you are hearing the president's plan? >> old bad ideas are new again this is how we go the alternative minimum tax which now hits millions. maybe 10, 15 million middle class taxpayer. 1969, millionaires aren't paying taxes, minimum tax, 21 million at first, now millions of middle class people. that's what always happens when they say they want to tax the rich. there aren't enough rich to go around so you hit the middle class. >> how do you justify the idea that you would say, let's have
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a serious attack on entitlement spending? which is needed, without saying that the people who profited the most from the american system should pay some fair share? >> reduce the rates and grow the economy. >> what we need more than anything else in this country is economic growth. capital investment is an important part of generating economic growth. we have to look at tax reform that will insent hiring people making investments and have a tax code that is equitable in that order. -- >> there's a trillion in new revenue, does that do what you just said? that's what the president is calling for. >> this time it is not the right time to raise burdens on people. once the economy has begun to recover we may need to ask people who have been successful to do more to help get the deficit down. >> thank you panel. check out panel plus where our group picks up on our website fox news -- up next, how you
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>> chris: and now this program note. next thursday fox news in partnership with google and >> now this program note. next week in partnership with google will host a debate in yoe news. you can submit a video question and we are looking at all of them at the video tab. it's easy to do. take a look at this one from michael and brandy from indiana. >> there is growing concern among americans about the size sand scope of the federal government and state and individl rights. >> if you are like the president how do you plan to restore the tenth than amendment and hold the government to enumerated powers and allow states to
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govern themselves. >> chris: if you don't want to do that. you can use the posts on which question you would like to use. shannon green will be watching online polls and you can watch the debate. be sure to tune in next thursday 9:00 p.m. eastern w for the big debate with a big difference. have a great week and we'll see you next fox news sunday. p >> this sunday, beginning with a violent start for church goers in florida, a shooting inside later this hour. the latest on the suspect, i'm harris fa