abilities do not affect his abilities to lead. his affair is causing problems with his marriage but his wife shouldn't care because his mistress is not human -- i don't know. berlin. and therefore, as a free nation. >> neil: berliner, because if this president it was not fa too if far from another president 50 years ago, almost to the day, well he didn't factor in there where they were largely polite but here where they were anything but. >> no more tyranny! >> neil: welcome. i'm neil cavuto. what is the german word for awkward. a u.s. president trying to rekindle the flames that

seemed to have lost the love. they are dealing with tea party protestors who never felt the love. >> let my people go. >> let he hear it. >> leave us alone and mind your own business. [ applause ] >> neil: and from the tea party group, they were among those targeted by the irs, remember that? and one gave up to get the tax status. welcome to both of you. becky, to you first, what did you think of the crowds today and the anger a lot of them were feeling today? >> it was so great to see so many people come out on a weekday to take off of work and come. i was really encouraged, but i really felt that it was good for the people to

see that they are not alone feeling upset about this irs issue. >> neil: barbara, what came of it? >> well, i think one of the ringing messages today is that we have hundred-year old institution that has gotten so much power and the average citizen has got to be in compliance with rules they don't even understand. if you step out of line you are going to be targeted? it's just an insult to every american. i hope we can come together and start a movement to abolish the irs and get a tax. >> neil: becky, you and i chatted about this before, all the hell you went through trying to deal with this administrative nightmare, it actually helped the tea party certainly a healthy respect if not empathy and sympathy. in perverse sense do you think the irs helped your cause? >> i think the irs, the

targeting of the tea party groups has really awakened the american people. yes, i think it has recharged the tea party movement a bit. like i've said so many times, it's not republicans versus democrats, this is big government versus citizen issue. >> neil: the fear is that the tea party among tea partiers overplays the hand and gets belligerent and loses this golden moment to sort of get that their cause out. what do you think of that? >> i think there are so many different issues right now on the front burner that if we simply keep pushing these issues forward and demand resolution to the various issues, not only the irs but also benghazi. there are so many things that is overreaching by this government right now. i think that it's really an american issue, it's not a tea party issue. hopefully more americans

will come to our side because we are representing the americans, the american citizen. >> neil: do you think -- i'm glad i have both of you to get a sense of this -- that the administration isn't serious about addressing this? we just heard an f.b.i. director had a couldn't name an investigator that is looking into a mess. not a single conservative or tea party group was called on this mess. >> that is correct. this morning, i don't know if saw it, senator sessions called me to verify, i happened to be at my attorney's office when he called, they did verify that none of the groups they are representing have been contacted. they know from the other attorneys who are suing their clients have not been, appointments made for interviews. there has been no contact. it doesn't look like they have intentions to get to the bottom of it.

>> neil: the groups that you saw protesting today what are they angry at the most? at the administration, at the way the irs treated them, indifference they had gotten a dismissive attitude, what? >> i would say it is using the irs to target people who are speaking out and exercising their first amendment rights. our roo right to assemble. we have a long history in this country of having a right to assemble and to have opposition to our government and to institution that most of us, the irs which can completely ruin your life to target people with irs is just a total abuse of power. i think that is really -- we need to take away their power, no matter what side

of the coin that you are on. you could be the target next. >> neil: absolutely. after hearing from both of you, they are messing with the wrong folks here. guys, thank you very much for joining us. >> neil: forget whether the irs will find its way. will it get out of the way. it's doling out $70 million in bonuses the irs says it's legally obliged to pay. byron york says pretty stupid to be paying now. byron, they say, contractually obligated and bad timing? >> absolutely. this comes shortly after they were hauled before congress to y to explain lavish spending at conferences in anaheim, california, other places. they called the guy up who ran the division and beat on him for a whole day. then, of course, that doesn't talk about the extra standards they had

for the tea party and other conservative groups. it's all coming at once for them. >> neil: i was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. this is the time of the year and bonuses go into effect, do you have union workers and this is part of the strategy, why penalize the indians when the chief is doing all this. which way i cut it, it didn't cut it? >> it looks terrible. part of it is union agreements. this is kind of par for the course for government workers, they do go on and they do get bonuses every year. it's almost impossible to fire them. it's incredibly hard to fire a government worker. when it comes out and it does a regular basis, not just the irs but all sorts of other government agencies, it drives taxpayers nuts. >> neil: i wonder where it's going. the argument for democrats they could wait it out. some of them demand answers,

max balk us comes to mind but the thinking seems to be that maybe by waiting it out, holding out, this thing will start of flame out. what is your sense? >> it's going to depend on the facts of the case. any time you have a major investigator of a scandal, say, it's over, nothing to see here which is what representative cummings has tried to do it makes people curious about what else there might be. we know president obama has a lot of problems now, not just irs, but nsa, department of justice and benghazi, but irs has most potential to hurt him. if you look at the latest poll we got out yesterday, one question was just a month ago, 37% people thought the white house had direct role in the irs scandal.

37% is now 47%. if that number keeps going up, it's a serious problem for the president. >> neil: you have to disavow them of that notion or let it get stronger. thank you very much. and tumble in the dow, a lot of it has to do ben bernanke emptying the punch bowl they have been throwing cash and buying notes and bonds to keep rates very low, that is going to end soon. in fact it's tapering and going to start by the end of this year. a lot of that, ben bernanke seem to think the economy is improving enough they can take some of that nicotine away. whether that is good or bad in the long term. very short term, they didn't like it. we're going to be all over it in a few minutes. in the meantime, we are also following these developments, not the least,

the fallout on heavily and where it goes and more specifically on this immigration plan and where it is not going. stick around. [ male announcer ] we've been conditioned

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>>. >> neil: you know they knew this day was coming but the reality is sinking is by day's end sending stocks sinking. dow off 206 points off of indications, that ben bernanke has finally has a plan or quasi plan to pull the punch bowl away the tapering of the bond buying and mortgage security buying that seems arcane. the bottom line is the way for the federal government to forcibly keep interest rates as low as they have been. he is going to start maybe taking that away by the end

of this year. a little sooner than some thought but also posited he is done with this or stop it entirely and lot would depend on the economy. it ends up how you read it but more bears reading as bad news than good news. we'll go to steve moore and melissa francis. it's always in the eyes of beholder. what do you make of it? >> absolutely. i watched the whole thing live. if you try to kror correlate with what he said, it's like readying tea leaves. it's important thing to notice, we saw stocks sold off and bonds sold off. that is not usual. what it tells you the market doesn't have a lot of confidence in the dismount strategy. as we get closer they are not convinced the feds can hold on to it. we can hold on to mortgaged

backed securities but i don't think the marketed thinks that is going to smooth things out enough. >> neil: there is that soft landing we got to do here. that is dicey game. the markets fear to her pointed that he is not going to be able to pull it off. >> you said that you need to read the tea leaves, you need a decoder. what i heard ben bernanke saying loud and clear was this plan of asset purchases, your viewers should know the fed has purchased $3.6 trillion of assets over the last four years. it did not say it's going to take the punch bowl away. your cups are going to be small over the next few years. what i heard him say through 2015 this asset purchase machine will continue. by the way, for the layman, what that means they will continue to push money into

the economy as they have been doing in the trillions of dollars for the last four years. >> neil: we should find out at the risk -- $85 billion pumps into this market. let's say they reduce it to $75 billion, is it the amount that is going get their attention? >> no, you asked me the exact question. it's not about the amount. when are they starting to pull back. many people that move markets say that they are afraid when they see any slowing down it will be run for the exit. ben bernanke said he like bdz trying to land a jet on an aircraft carrier. i have been a passenger when it happened, you get whiplash. it doesn't have to be a turn off the tap entirely. market is looking for any

twitch any signal think are slowing down. they are going react. they want to beat the trade. >> neil: for all i know you wrote the editorial, would be it good for us if we stopped this anyway. it's long worn out. it's creating a bubble. it's going to have a lot of pain, just getting to that point? >> couple points, first, let me say this loud and clear because it's such an important point, a lot of people on wall street to not understand, feds can't create prosperity in this country by printing money. it doesn't work. so this idea we're going to get faster economic growth by having the printing presses run faster, i reject that idea. >> neil: it could avoid a depression? >> yeah, that was the argument four years ago. there is no question here we are $3.6 trillion later and you have to wonder.

this is question we have to ask ourselves. will the fed be able to stuff this genie back in the bottle. i remember the 1970's and at that time what happened they started with it and inflation went up and up and they couldn't control it. >> neil: that is the fear. >> absolutely. that is the whole fear, that they have gone into this territory where we've never been before. we don't know how it is going to turn out. >> neil: my daughter, i knew that day was coming when she was going off college but i was still an emotional wreck when she did. [ laughter ] >> neil: back to the economy. maybe if the healthcare law doesn't make democrats sick, losing members because of it will. democrats have one less player on the team and it's not that he is turning sickly. problem is he is turning red. >> welfare... vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but

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>> neil: fed up, switched out. now a louisiana lawmaker is speaking out why he changed to the republican party. why this top louisiana democrat's comments on health care opponents was the last straw. >> it comes down to the race of the president of the united states which causes people to disconnected and step away from the substance of the bill. >> neil: all right. louisiana state senator heard that and enough was enough for him. senator, that clinched it, why? >> that was so off the wall, so far from reason that i just couldn't be in the same room with that type of comment anymore.

my mom, my mom is 103 years old. heard those as they were reported and she called me, albert lee you are not -- elbert, you can't be involved in anything like this. she was right. it was the last straw. i've been considering to make this move the last couple of years as the louisiana state democratic party and national party both moved away from louisiana voters and from basic american values. >> neil: what specifically to get you upset? >> the positions on guns, for example, on prayer in school. there was a bill we passed in the louisiana legislature that permits students to congregate and pray. there was a lot of push

back from the democrats about that bill and some of them did vote against it. to be against prayer, i can't be in the room with that type of attitude. their positions on life, on marriage, on big spending, on guns, the whole vools set of values. >> neil: but that was there for a while, sir. i'm wondering is it the combination and how this was accelerating over the last year or so that got you? >> yes. that is correct. it accelerated over the last two years to the point i was really ready to make the move. then when i got this call from my mom, the way that she understood the comments was that anyone who opposed the president was a racist.

so, that was too much. >> neil: we showed that senator's remarks when she said them. i couldn't believe it. yet that view sticks among some news organizations where if you challenge this president, then you are a racist. how do you, as an african-american, challenge that? >> that concept is nutty. let's talk about affordable health care bill itself. it does not touch drug companies or insurance companies. they are not asked in the bill to sacrifice at all. so all -- they are responsible for more than half of all of our healthcare costs. so all of the sacrifices transferred to the backs of small businesses and workers and taxpayers. there are good and valid

reasons to oppose obamacare which has nothing to do with the color of the president's skin. to think that we are so weak and unintelligent as to not have valid reasons to oppose it other than skin color.... >> neil: remember, your mother is probably watching, don't use any bad language? >> i'll stop. >> neil: thank you, very good having you. >> don't forget chevy chase, it is a floor wax and dessert topping. because the illegals and the deficit. chevy would love it. this guy, not so much. hoo-hoo.

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♪ >> jon: headlines might be glowing but my next guest is not buying the report that the immigration bill will do wonders for our deficit. heritage foundation president, jim demipt, you are not buying it. why not? >> this is a trick they use. they used it for obamacare. cbo said obamacare would save our country money and we know it's going to cost us trillions of dollars. people that liked the bill put the revenue first ten years and all ex pensions outside the window. it's going to cost americans trillions of dollars. it's hard to believe that anybody would trust this

administration with massive bill like obamacare. >> neil: they say, marco rubio and others that personally like you when you talk about trillions in cost you are not factors in how people get on the books, start paying taxes and all the good that comes with that. you say you are. they are the ones that have it wrong. it's very hard for someone looking at this, it's either an albatross or potential boom. you say albatross but what you have to hang that on? >> heritage has done the analysis on this. in fact, we updated a study that we did in 2007. it costs a lot more now than it did before. some folks are just projecting without any data. i have not seen any analysis that shows that over a 30-50 year period that it does not cost trillions of dollars. >> neil: you are talking

about medicaid, medicare, over the course of a lifetime, they say you are not factoring in the fact they are going to be working and paying into that system over a lifetime. what is it? >> we know in america today, if you don't have a high school diploma, upward mobility doesn't work. you take a lot more out of system than you put in. that is the case of the illegal immigration, they have less than a high school education. the idea they are going to create jobs for americans, it just doesn't work. >> neil: just the poll tilts politics of this there is mad rush you hear about republicans say we got to pass this, my gosh, we'll loose to latino voters if we don't. what do you say to that? >> republicans didn't lose the election because they didn't pass an immigration bill. they lost the election

because they ran negative, very negative campaign, they did not inspire americans. the base of the republican party didn't show up. certainly conservatives were not unspider by either those running for the senate or the presidency. so we're not going to win the hispanic vote by passing an amnesty bill. we're going to win their toet vote when we show we care about them and our ideas will make their lives better. that is what we need to do instead of a huge amnesty bill they are trying to pass. >> neil: all right, thank you, sir. you heard from someone that doesn't like the bill now to a guy that does. the member of a gang of eight. i'm talking about arizona senator, jeff flake. this is actually going to cost trillions over the years to decide if this is going to relieve our deficit. doesn't add up -- you say

what? >> the cbo came out yesterday and said that it would mean $197 billion in deficit reduction over the first ten years. a lot more than that in the second two years. >> neil: this the same cbo that said much the thing about cost savings in healthcare? >> the estimates are only good as the assumptions. i would argue that the assumptions are correct. when you bring people out of shadows to participate more in the economy, then you have a system that actually works, then we would be better off. they also looked at economic out put and said over the first ten years, it would lead to economic increase by about 2.3%. i think by 2033 it's 5.4%. >> neil: they countered that by saying a lot of these are just high school

or badly educated, may be legal americans down the road. the economic impact in how they are going to help with the job situation just isn't there. what do you say to that? >> we have a lot of lot of history to dispute that. those that start out at low wage jobs typically move up to higher wage jobs. don't forget this legislation includes measures that allow us to actually attract people with degrees and allows them to stay and create jobs. it's not a low scale side. >> neil: do you think being a part of the gang of eight has saved you as target. it wasn't too long ago your son was singled out on twitter for making racially disparaging remarks. you apologized but did you find it curious they got

out and all? what they have gotten out if you didn't have the prominent position that you presently do on this immigration debate? >> i don't know. i've been working on this issue for a number of years. i'm just happy to be involved in this process and make it a better bill. in arizona we are concerned about border security. i can tell you we have good border security provisions in the bill. it's about to get a lot better with some of the amendments i believe will be adopted in the coming days. >> neil: i know that, but your son is a kid, a stupid thing as you pointed out. it was out of blue, but if you were anybody else, would it have amounted to anything else? >> i have no idea. he's apologized and i have apologized and we'll deal with it and move on. i hope if this immigration bill passed in a way to help the economy and help our situation in arizona with the border. >> neil: among prominent

mainstream republicans, this will hurt them. they want immigration laws, something that passes but hearing it from the right of the party, look, you have given up border enforcement, you are a sellout, you are for amnesty -- how do you answer that? >> none of us from arizona would dare put border security second or third. it has to remain paramount. we have situation as people in arizona we pay a disproportionate burden of failure to secure the border. we are making sure we have good border security. it's about to get better with amendments. i just reject the notion that this bill is not tough on border enforcement. >> neil: senator, good seeing you. another two billion dollars and still no guaranteed the healthcare law has a fighting chance. facing dr. carson. he is here.

♪ >> neil: i think we can call it the unaffordable act. forget premiums going up. they said taxpayers will cough up two billion up and running. and there is no guarantee the launch will happen at all. dr. been ben carson saw all this coming. doctor, good to have you back. these costs are escalating.

that is got a lot of folks worrying. should they be? >> they should be extraordinarily worried. first of all, this was supposed to be something to bring the costs of healthcare down. of course it had the opposite effect. average family with private insurance has seen a $2500 increase and there is no reason to expect to see it going up. as insurance companies are penalized they are going pass the cost on to the consumers. we can look for a long spiraling upward spiraling cost spiral. >> neil: what do you make of fact that so many low income workers to say nothing of the young we need to sign into the system to support it are not doing so? >> people are not going to do it if they are not forced to do it. that was actually why obamacare came along. they felt you needed to

force people to do things because they would not do it on their own. to a degree that is true, but that is also part of a free enterprise system. i think perhaps maybe making it attractive to people rather than bludgeoning them into might be a better way. real problem is you are taking a massive program and thrusting it without test onto an unsuspecting populace. the smart thing to do is take bit by bit and make sure that is working and next part. that is the way intelligent people do things. then in fact to take something with many parts that have historically not worked very well and put them altogether and say this is going to be super and everything is going to work perfectly doesn't make any sense. >> neil: i know you are a great doctor. i've watched a medical

shows, i think i qualify as an expert. but one thing i think there is a pattern to this. administration isn't stupid about it. there might have been part of a strategy to get employers to dump their workers, all because they couldn't afford the plants as they stood, to jump their insurance companies that so many insurance companies heaping hiking premiums so everybody once to the government and single payer system the only thing that we fall back on. >> certainly that is a very viable scenario. i don't want to get into conspiracy theories. certainly if i were a conspiracy theorist i would say that would work very well. >> neil: you should watch more medical shows. that is where i got this. do you think there is something to that. pie by making it so painful and so damn annoying, if

the alternative the government handled this -- okay. >> absolutely. that is one of the reasons it's very important for many of us in the medical profession and the business community to put together right now something that works something that is very effective and easily understandable that truly is affordable. some of us are working on that. i think we'll have it ready to go in time when this one falls apart. >> neil: you same to think that is good one? >> i can't imagine it's not a given looking at escalating costs and recognizing we won't be able to poi pay for it. combine that with the fact in our we want to put the irs in charge of enforcing it -- are you kidding me? >> neil: always good seeing you. >> you, too. >> you have a problem and government says they can fix it.

why john stossel says don't bet the house on it. that is next ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ test.

♪ ♪ >> neil: the safer we are, john stossel says not so fast. >> cops everywhere are stepping up enforcement and tracking down like never before. >> america is cracking down drinking and driving. >> make no mistake you will be arrested. >> definitely be going to jail. >> cracking down on sex for money. >> you should be ashamed of yourself. >> they tax what they call sin. >> tobacco. >> when they don't tax they

ban. >> if your kids gamble they are three or four more times likely to steal. >> what is next, me. kids that play video games. >> the video game industry is like the tobacco industry from years ago. >> reporter: don't politicians realize their solutions cause new problems? >> it is new york's newest black market, talking about cigarettes. >> reporter: puritanical government. >> that's our show. >> john, the government says they're protecting you. >> they make it worse, they don't get to the bottom of the swamp, people still do this stuff and they drive it underground where it is much worse. >> fitting to be said, making penalties for drunk driving, should there be any for that? as a pure libertarian? >> to me that's the most interesting part of the show. yes, libertarians would say

drunk driving hurts other people, adults should be allowed to do whatever we want that's peaceful. if you hurt others. >> that's where you draw the line. >> except for the driving laws. why not reckless driving laws? the government's own data shows sleeplessness is just as bad, but they can't test for that. there are all kinds of distractions, the kids in the back seat, fighting with your wife. >> my wife should be taken off the road just for the way she drives. >> my wife tries to play with the radio and so forth. should be reckless driving. different people handle alcohol in different ways. >> but you do draw the line, talking about drones and all of that, protecting you is one thing, you just don't want to overstep it. explain the difference. >> well, in the case of the nsa spying, a lot of libertarians are mad at me because i am not that outraged by it. there's a reason, some people want to kill us.

i give them the benefit of the doubt that this data search -- >> should never do that. >> probably i shouldn't, maybe it is a slippery slope to more privacy. >> the argument, you can have a hundred of these drones, and then what keeps you safe is the industry of spies. >> what are you talking about? >> i don't know. i don't know. but you're not just black and white on this. if there's something you can see a clear benefit, you will be for it, but if it is shaky, you're not. where is government interference with john stossel okay? >> when it keeps us safe from enemies, foreign and domestic, when it stops pollution, because there's no good marked way to do that, and that's about it. >> why are libertarians so upset with you? >> because i'm not upset about the nsa spying. >> you're 99% with them.

>> not good enough. >> i never really trusted you. john stossel, our star, good to see you, my friend. well, everyone is talking about what chris christie told some students. [ male announcer ] with free package pickup

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did he or didn't he? a lot of folks are parsed over chris christie's words yesterday, whether the new jersey governor did signal he is running for president on a news program yesterday. i don't care, i was focused on something else, the governor said yes pundits, to some students, specifically students at an elementary school who on their last full day of class got the chance to take full measure of their clearly shrinking governor. the governor didn't miss a point. he keeps pundits guessing, something i hope the kids won't soon be for getting. >> whatever you do for your life, whatever your dreams are inside your head, just remember this. you're never going to get to achieve your dreams unless you work really hard. so make sure you work hard, do what you need to do. then if you get to accomplish your dreams, it is a pretty good thing, i can tell you from personal experience, it is a pretty good thing. >> that's it. work hard, good advice. really good advice. can't say it enough advice.

because if there's one thing i discovered over the years, it is how many brilliant minds have gone to waste because they coasted through the years. the ivy leaguer who sat on a degree, or the newly minted vp who sat in his office, clasping the prize without grabbing the fact you have to work to keep the prize and get more prizes. that's why it is good when a governor who gets national attention for getting in people's faces tells kids you first have to get to work. i remember the hardest thing about getting to the top is staying on top. it is hard and it is not just kids who need to know that hard truth. i can't tell you all the executives i have known over the many years who struggle to get to that big office, only to stop struggling once they got that office, coming in a little later, leaving a little earlier. the newspapers they once devoured now untouched. some then find that job they coveted now cut. i heard it once said there's

nothing wrong with enjoying your success. there's everything wrong assuming you will always have that success. so keep plugging away, knowing a fine mind is one thing, but without so much as a drop of sweat, you know, it is nothing. so no politics here, no controversy, no chris christie is going to do that or this here, just stating a bipartisan, obvious thing he said here. i am glad a governor who has now become a rock star told kids the secret to life hassles, that he wouldn't be a rock star if he didn't simply hustle. they need to hear that. we need to hear that. and of course the fact that he is from jersey and i'm from jersey, good. the former head of the new york stock exchange on something that was not good, not what happened at the corner wall. did you see the sellup going on? a lot of it on talk that the federal reserve will start taking all the goodies away.

better that than something more horrendous, has nothing to do with the fed, has everything to do with life, tonight, 8:00 p.m. be there. i am dana perino, with kimberly guilfoyle, bob beckel, eric bolling, and greg gutfeld. it is 5:00 in new york city and this is "the five." the tea party movement roaring back to life with the largest gathering in washington, d.c. since 2010. thousands of supporters gathered outside the capitol to stand up from targeting from the irs and push back on big government. several republican lawmakers were there, including ted cruz, rand paul, steve king. >> what's happening with the irs is an absolute outrage. >> we're stick and tired of government bullies, we need to send them home. >> ifbr