tv The Five FOX News September 16, 2013 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
this is a fox news alert. we are learning more about the navy veteran and military veteran aaron alexis who police say shot and killed people and injured more inside the washington navy yard this morning. alexis from ft. worth, texas, is among the dead. the shooting began at 8:20 a.m. in the hall ways and cafeteria of a building which is part of the command headquarters. they were told to sheltder in place while hundreds of police officers and naval officers engaged him in a firefight.
police were originally searching for additional suspects. as if tensions weren't high enough around the capitol, a man threw lit fireworks over the perimeter fence triggering a swift response from the secret service. thankfully nobody was injured. fox's own greta van susteren is at the navy yard with more on this story tonight. >> it has been something else today. our league peter got here seven minutes after the first shots were fired. he was on the scene. i arrived shortly thereafter. it was chaos here. there were helicopters going up and down the whole area looking for other suspects. we had people being taken from buildings in helicopters. chaos here as the massacre that went on over my left shoulder. the big question is how does a mass killer armed to the keith
get into a building and kill so many? that's the investigation that's going on now. the thing that's always disturbing and distressing about the horrible murders is when we stay here tonight and cover them, we know their bodies are still lying in the buildings because this is an actictive investigation. knowing families are home wondering if their loved one could be alive, unconscious at a hospital or lying on the cold floor of a cafeteria in a government building. tonight, things are calmer down here on the outside. we don't have helicopters buzzing us anymore looking for a second or third suspect. the investigation is extremely active here, texas, new york. trying to find out who this guy was, why he did this and, i suppose, why people weren't tipped off.
last night everything was fine for these 12 people and their families. this morning they get up, have coffee, do what every washington, d.c. government worker does, heads to work and is expected to go home at 4:00, 5:00 whenever the day ends for that person. instead this incredible massacre changed everything. 12 people dead, gunned down in a military installation in heart of d.c. it's so unthinkable, sean. we have seen it before, haven't we ? >> we have. do we know more about aaron alexis? we know he had a shooting incident in texas with a neighbor where he fired a gun into the ceiling, went into the neighbor's apartment. he was in the navy. anything else? >> he didn't have much of a security check. at least he was able to access a military building. he didn't have much of aheck. at least not a successful one. it calls into question snowden didn't have much of a security check as a government
contractor. what are we doing that they have so much access to information. in this instance it isn't just information. he had access to a building. he was able to get in there. you have been in military installations, they are not easy to get into. >> nope. >> what kind of identification card did he have? how easy is it to jump the turnstile or to overpower someone? it was obviously easy enough for him to get in and murder 12 unsuspecting people. >> you bring up the snowden case. it's difficult for them to have a firearm this on a military base of any kind. >> you know, sean, every military base i have been on, i felt so safe. in washington, d.c., some of the streets are dangerous. lots of times you don't feel safe. i have never felt unsafe in a military installation, whether here at this one or any place else in the country or the world i have traveled.
i have been in kabul in the military base there and i didn't feel unsafe. imagine all the soldiers, sailors and members of the military who go to these bases every single day. they have felt safe. they have had colleagues and then tonight everything is shake b. today. someone could penetrate it easily and just kill, open fire. firing down at people in a cafeteria, shooting them. people running for their lives, heading for desks. shots fired into the walls. not knowing what's going on. is that a desk falling or someone shooting? the terror they went through. not just in 197 but in buildings around when they heard to stay sheltered because there is a shooting. no one knew, am i going to be next? is my office the next to be penetrated? where is the killer? is he next door coming to our floor? that's the terror. it was even worse for 12 people and their families tonight.
>> greta van susteren. we'll watch tonight at 10:00 p.m. thanks for being with us. >> thank you, sean. joining us now an eyewitness who was in his office building inside the building where the rampage took place. u.s. navy technical warrant holder hassan paliban. how are you? >> i'm okay, sir. >> walk us through a little bit. you were a floor below where the incident took place. tell us what happened. >> around 8:30, i am on second floor. at about 8:30 a fire alarm started and i basically got up, took my jacket and started walking. i saw all my colleagues and my boss inside our cubicle area.
we have a place. i was listening them and they were talking about shooting going on upstairs. my boss told everybody we should all stay here. then they were trying to the -- you know, organize what actions we should take -- my boss, my supervisor, and other people there. >> did you know any of the victims? did you ever see the shooter before? >> no. i didn't see the shooter. it was on the fourth floor. i'm on second. i don't know who are the victims yet. so i don't know anybody. >> yeah . you also heard some of the exchange of gunfire between the police on the scene -- >> that was later on. that was later on when i went outside from the emergency door
with a bunch of other people. police directed us to run to this construction building that is under construction. they told us to stay there in the shelter. of course at this time i'm hearing all these announcements and telling us to find the shelters, stay where you are. helicopters overhead flying. police everywhere. nen in an hour or so we were there. police told us that we can go through this construction site. they opened their little fence. so we could get outside of the walls. so we did that. when we were there, they told us to stay against the wall. all the police officers were protect ing us. we were about 35, 40 people. they said we were going to get a
bus and take us to a safe place. that's when we were hearing, you know, two-way radios of officers and the shots were -- i heard some shots. we also heard that police officers were shot. we also heard that three -- actually shooters, there were three shooters there. >> you actually heard on the police scanner. you heard the gunshots. you heard that a policeman was shot. you heard the police say there were three shooters around. that's what some of the reports said earlier in the day as i was watching this unfold. you heard that. >> that's when i really got scared. i said, three shooters running around. yes, we had several police officers around us. you know, they can't shoot anybody. it was scary. >> well, i'm glad you made it. our thoughts and prayers are
we have a report on the fourth floor of a male with a shotgun. multiple shots fired. multiple people down. we are waiting for the okay that the scene has been secured. we have an active shooter on the fourth floor. i will give you an update on the building location. several victims now. >> welcome back to "hannity." details are emerging from the nation's capital after a gunman opened fire in the navy yard killing 13 people and injuring at least a dozen more.
here are law enforcement experts former homicide detective joe matthews and former fbi agent james wettick is with us. james, is there anything you gleaned from the background of aaron alexis that leads you to at least a theory, hypothesis on what happened, on what might have happened, why? >> thanks, john. my condolences to the families and victims here. what law enforcement has to concentrate on today is how did this individual pass his background and what was done by investigators in order to give him the clearances and i.d. he had to get on that secure institution? >> he was in the navy, had two awards. he may have had an old -- i'm guessing here -- either a contact or old identification would be my first thought. no? >> well, you eventcently opm has been under fire. they have investigators charged and prosecuted for lying on
reports about not conducting appropriate interviews, doing appropriate background checks and what have you. if he was working for the government. if he was given an i.d., what kind of background check was done? >> i know they said pretty forcefully there is no reason to believe it 's tees te's ter erry haven't ruled it out. in this case, is it hatred against the military or perhaps a disgruntled employee considering he had been in the navy? would those be your areas of initial thought? >> yes, john. you don't eliminate any reason why he did this. it could be as much timpl as workplace violence. you know, when we talk about doing background investigations, they do it when they are employed. what we are not doing is a proactive supervision of our
employees. just like the incident where the psychologist had problems and nobody reported it. these problems that were created didn't just come on overnight. he didn't have a nightmare, wake up and decide to do this. somebody working with him, one of his friends or some place knew something like this could happen. >> that's a good point. there was a et seseattle report that suggested there were anger issues. there was an incident report from a neighbor he had about shooting into the ceiling and complaining intimidating this woman about noise issues. do you glean anything from that? >> absolutely. that's why the bureau does five-year reinvestigations. our employees are very good the backgrounds are complete. fbi employees are all
reinvestigated every five years. if you are going to give someone this kind of access there needs to be re investigation periodically to make sure things are all right. >> good point. joe, i assume they spoke froends, relatives, neighbors. what do you think they know? phone records? what do you think they have been able to ascertain this quickly? >> i think they know a lot. the first thing they did when they found out where he livid they obtained search warrants and secured the area. his last dwelling is a place where you will find the most evidence. they will access information on the computer, talk to neighbors, family. a lot of times, bad people don't confide in those that are closest to them. he macy confide in his barber o drinking buddy. that's who you have to talk to. >> it seem s there was a lot of interaction in terms of a
shootout with the police. does that give you an indication he planned to die today? >> sounds like he had some experience. i'm sure investigators will put it together. we know he had repeated incidents with guns. that will come to the forefront, i'm sure. >> thank you both for being with us. appreciate it tonight. coming up next, a live report from jennifer griffin standing by at the navy yard with new details tonight. also check in with captain chuck nash, k.t. mac far land who know the facility well. and rudy giuliani will share his insight as we continue. >> i feel lucky to be alive uh. the guy next to me got shot. i didn't. >> it was like pow, pow, pow. a seconds it stopped and pow, pow, pow, pow.
as we have been reporting tonight at least 13 are dead and 14 more injured after a gunman opened fire in the navy yard in washington today. 34-year-old computer contractor for the navy aaron alexis from ft. worth, texas, killed at the scene. who is this guy? fox news correspondent jennifer griffin has the answers tonight. >> reporter: well, aaron alexis, we have learned from navy officials was in the navy but never served in combat. never saw battle. never was deployed to the war zone. from 2007 to 2011 when he was in the navy i, he mostly worked as an aviation engineer in texas. he was separated from the navy, left in 2011. it is not clear whether he got a dishonorable discharge but he was discharged.
navy sources said he had a history of misconduct. in fact, on his record there were records he was arrested at least two times. he had two civilian arrests including one in 2010 in which he unlawfully discharged a weapon and when he fired the weapon, he fired it into his neighbor's living room. she said he was complaining about the noise. she was sitting in her living room when a bullet came through the ceiling, landed near her. she pressed charges. that was in 2010. he left the navy in 2011. his friends say he traveled the to thailand for about a month recently, that he was a buddhist. but it's clear from his record that he had some sort of anger issue. sean? >> thank you very much. appreciate it. here with more reaction to today's horrible event, two people who know the facility well. retired u.s. naval captain chuck nash, fox news military analyst k.t. mac far land. i guess the question is how is it possible he got in there?
>> that's the $64,000 question, sean. if it is an ar-15, that's a rifle. he had multiple weapons. how did he h get on. from the base, how did he get into the building. once in the building, an armed person among 3,000 unarmed people is a pretty easy scenario for the armed person. what they have to do is look at the security cameras, figure out did he drive on base, walk on base. if he walked did h he use his contractor badge to get on base and then use the -- allegedly he used a stolen badge or misappropriated badge to swipe himself into the building. security procedures are different for insiders than they are for visitors. if he had an insider identification, if he worked in the building and was authorized to be there, that's a different
security proet call than someone who would come in as a visitor. >> k.t., then we have snowden all over again in many ways. we are not doing enough background checks on them. >> if we have 4 million people with top secret security clearances, millions more with security clearances we don't have the ability to vet many people. we are no longer conducting security clearances internally. we are send ing it to contractors. if everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority. look at the major incidents that caused us problems it's because we have too many people we are hooking at. the underwear bomber, boston bombers. we knew about those people but they fell through the cracks because we're look at too many people. we have millions on the no-fly list. >> this can go back to the nsa looking at phone calls, doing data mining but the russians and putin tell us about the boston bombers and we don't pay
attention. >> or we have the saudi intelligence minister saying to look for underwear bombers. the father says, i'm worried about my son. yet a word gets misspelled, a letter is trance posed and we never see the guy. the september 11 commission made a stunning conclusion. it said we are not connecting the dots. we have to streamline intelligence-gathering. we are gathering it, but not analyzing it. instead we created another bureaucracy. >> we are not prioritizing the important intelligence. it may seem to be the case. do you think this is a case where we are not paying enough sboengs to the contractors that have access to these buildings? >> the problem is once you get a security clearance it's good until revoked. >> in other words -- >> what happens is say you are due for a five-year bring-up on your security clearance. they are so overwhelmed with getting people security clearances post 9/11 that they
have not only used the d.o.d. security clearance people. they are using the office of personnel management. they go beyond the office of personnel management to contractors. everybody out there is trying to do this. you know, the demand is so high that you can't possibly do everything to the level of detail. >> following, k.t., the timeline with jennifer griffin and time in the navy and his time he got out -- we don't know if he was dishonor bli discharged but there were arrests. >> shooting at the neighbor? >> at least at the ceiling. having anger issues. you would think there is a red flag. >> you would have thought there was a red flag with corporal manning, this one, a red flag with snowden. but somehow they are falling through the cracks. we have to take a step back and rethink it. have we gotten so big. has the bureaucracy of
intelligence gotten so big? we are prioritizing everything. >> 4 million is too high? >> are you kidding? i would like to see the increase of the number of security clearances from when reagan was president, nixon. >> i don't know how it's possible to do proper background checks on 4 million people. how many people do you hire to do that? >> and how much time does it take? you give somebody clearance on day one and three years later you haven't looked at them again. have they come up with issues? >> it seems we are missing the big issues here. in other words, we don't know how he got into the building. maybe we are making an assumption here. this is somebody whose background should not have committed him in the building. can we agree ? >> it certainly should have raised questions. the other issue we are dealing with here is the litany you guys went through which a lot of it is political correctness. there are people who understand there are issues with someone.
they are afraid to speak out. under the privacy act legislation, that person can find out that you were talking about them or oh gave them a negative review in a security clearance update and that person can take legal action against you. >> the issue of a disgruntled employee. it's got to be high on the list of possible motivations here. speculation but possible. >> the thing that's more upsetting is this guy was in football field length of the chief of naval operations. >> scary. >> the senior naval officer in the country on the joint chiefs of staffs. he was at his residence a few buildings away. >> he was evacuated. >> he was just a few building ace way when this happened. >> scary. good to see you. coming up next, america's mayor, rudy giuliani, live in studio. his reaction to the shooting rampage that paralyzed the nation's capital. we want to hear from you. log onto hannitylive.fox news.com.
let me know how many units you need. i will give them to you as you deem necessary. there's been a report of another victim. we'll try to get them out. also, make sure that the scene is safe down in new jersey. you copy? >> we are confirmed. new jersey. >> welcome back to our continuing coverage of today's shooting rampage at the washington navy yard that left 13 dead. here with reaction to today's tragedy, former new york city mayor rudy giuliani. i don't know what to make of
this. i i worry when i hear how tough security is at a place like this but he was able to get an ar-15 and other weapons on location. >> this is hard to understand. difficult to process. theed in that he had security clearance, fine. that doesn't allow him to bring a gun in. that means access to information. if he's carrying something in it should be searched. no one cleared him to have guns. they gave him a security clearance, they cleared him to access information, not to carry rifles, guns, automatic weapons, pistols. >> military person nel themselves aren't allowed to carry. >> it's absurd. internally it is not a well defendant defended facility. you get past the checkpoint, these people are defenseless. >> what do you think of what k.t. said that we have 4 million people now. it's such a big bureaucracy that have security clearance. >> she's right.
the number is impossible to accurately vet for the purpose of keeping information secure. it becomes more impossible to vet if you let them have access based on the security clearance and let them not have their items checked when they come in. >> i have had friends that got on the fbi. i have friend s in the secret service. i have friends that were on the nypd. the background check is extensive. >> that's correct. i travel to washington. i go to the house, the senate. used to go to the white house. >> not anymore? not lately? >> a while back. i go with police officers and security people. they have to check their weapons. they all get checked out. >> they are not allowed in the buildings -- >> of course not. not with the weapon. some have security clearances but not security clearances to carry weapons in. >> right. >> first of all, we have too many people with security clearances. at 4 million it's impossible to
vet accurately. snowden demonstrate that is. if we are carrying over the security clearance to allow people to bring in weapons we are making a terrible mistake. >> there is something deeper here. we'll find out as more information comes out. the first thing they said, homeland security, it's almost like they raced out there. said, it's not terror, not terror. fair enough. they said they have no reason to believe it e's ter error in the health care briefing. why do i think that ought to be the first thing they think of. not be so quick to rule it out. i think the opposite way. >> i think the honest answer right now is they don't b no . -- know. if you look at the available facts, which are few, it doesn't look like terrorism. i don't know that i would make the conclusion. if i were in charge i would say
it's too early to make a conclusion. you look like there is a fool if there is a big surprise. >> it could be a disgruntled employee. he served in h the navy. >> right. >> could be hatred of the military for whatever reason. >> right. >> that may bring it close to terror, but we don't know. >> a person who clearly displayed anger, rage in the past. using his weapon inappropriately. >> i'm surprised h he wasn't dell dealt with more seriously for the shooting in ft. worth. >> yeah. apparently he was dispensed. you shoot a gun through uh your neighbor's ceiling? >> i used to get criticized, accused of zero tolerance as the mayor for treating small things previously. we once prevented a serial killing by enforcing the rule that you got arrest fd you didn't pay tolls on the subway. we caught a serial killer that way. >> really? >> yeah. when people commit violations, i'm not saying put them in squal for a long time.
but you have to register it as a serious thing. maybe it becomes a cause to take away security clearance. >> i have had a license to carry all of oh my adult life. i had one in rhode island, new york, california, alabama and georgia. a carrypistol carry permit. you don't have accidental discharge of a weapon. you don't. >> i got his record. he shot into a woman's home. >> because he was angry at the noise she was making. that's the way i interpreted it. he still got off with that. >> you get arrested and go to jail for that. >> you would think. >> second, your security clearance is taken from you. >> immediately. >> i don't think they found out. >> we lost 12 people today. people literally fighting for life in a hospital. >> who knows? maybe he could have done it anyway. we might have given ourselves a chance to avoid it if the it were dealt with seriously and also if the information was conveyed and the security
clearance was taken away. >> all right, mr. mayor. appreciate your insight. you lost your voice in the giants game? >> think so. >> the manning bowl? i'm an eli fan. >> we're coming back. >> tough start. >> i know. >> i'm a jets fan. >> we won the super bowl in 2007-08. lost the first two games. >> you predicting the yankees in the world series? >> until they are eliminated. >> all right. mr. mayor, thank you. coming up next, live to washington. new information tonight and then law enforcement experts walk us through uh how the investigation will unfold in the days ahead. straight ahead. >> people were climbing the wall to get over the wall to get out. it was crazy. >> shooting that targeted military and civilian personnel. >> the shooter from this morning has been identified as
rick? >> reporter: i spoke with a long-time member of the d.c. police department who told me he's confident that these reports of a possible second suspect will be unfounded. he said he should be shocked if anyone else is involved. there is always chaos and mayhem. people see someone with a weapon and aren't sure if the person is involved in the t shooting or responding to the shooting. in this case, authorities are confident that, in fact, there was only one shooter. his name is aaron alexis. he apparently opened fire at the navy yard around 8:20 this morning. first shooting at several people outside building 197 and again inside on the fourth floor in a hallway and shooting down at people gathered in a cafeteria lunchroom below. here is how one witness described the scene. >> just get out. everybody going down the stairs, pushing, shoving, falling down. after we came outside, people were climbing the walls to get out. it was crazy.
>> d.c. police chief kathy linnear said there is no question alexis would have killed more people if they hadn't taken him down after multiple shootouts with officers who responded within minutes. >> within seven minutes we had active shooter teams inside the building, moving through the building. there were multiple engagements with the suspect that was eventually deceased. metro and park police, preliminary information got into a final gun battle with the suspect that's deceased. >> police won't confirm the type of weapon used, won't say the number of rounds fired or rounds that alexis may have had on him after the shooting when he was taken down. we know the fbi evidence response team is on the scene, carefully documenting every inch of the crime scene. but, again, there is no official confirmation that there is no search ongoing for a second suspect. the last report was they were
still looking to clear or determine who the second person might be. but sources say it's unlike linen else was involved. sean? >> thank you very much for your reporting. joining me our panel of law enforcement experts. former nypd deputy chief ed hartnet, fbi profiler casey jordan and former agent jonathan gilliam. what do you glean from this guy's background? >> lots of disturbing aspects of his background. obviously with 20/20 hindsight he had anger issues, discipline problems in h the military, work issues. i would have to look at that. i want to know if h he's under medical care, medication. how did he get to the area? how long has he been in the area? i would have to backtrack the atm use, credit card use, tolls, everything -- >> how far along do you think ter now? >> pretty far along. one thing i haven't heerd is was
there a car involved? how did he get to the base? they will want to sweep the car for explosives and find out where it's been. check license plate readers, video cameras. everything h h he did that led him to today. >> and his multiple shootouts mean he was committed to dying, as far as i'm concerned. you're not going to win the battle. >> did he do a recon of the area? >> you study these guys. you are uh a profiler. >> sure. >> all good haumt uses profiling, right? >> the answer is it's about criminal behavior systems and the way you analyze them. people in law enforcement do this intuitive ti. but it's not scientific. when you take characteristics, put them in boxes, take what you know and look at the subject in this case i will go for a disgruntled employee. i see a lot of traits that remind me of christopher dorner from earlier in the year. going back to john mohamed. >> i would go with that first.
you can never rule out terror, whatever connection he may have. whatever ideology. >> i think it's personal. >> he was in the navy. it happened at t a navy base. >> yep. >> you're shaking your head. >> i absolutely agree. i thought early on when they said reports about individuals in military camouflage, green drab. it is a navy location. most likely you will see people. from a law enforcement perspective when a witness states something regardless of what they state you have to follow that up. you have to give kudos to the nationals for postponing their game. that was huge. they took it seriously and from an awareness point of view they took what the witness said seriously. >> for somebody to get to this point they got into the building
with weapons. this was preplanned. this had to run deep. does somebody else have to know somebody was aware of this deep seated resentment. agenda or eyde i yolg. you talk to neighbors sh friends, roommates. they said, great guy, great guy. he seemed to have a knowledge of access to the place. the did he do recon in the last few y2ks using the same stolen card? did he secret weapons on the scene? >> are you assuming it was stolen? >> well, the reports say he may have had a stolen i.d. card. if that's the case, how did he get it? who did he get it from? did he steal it from someone? was it given to him? he must have done reconnaissance of the area to know and have access. >> that's all premeditated. as a profiler what does that tell you about somebody that they are that committed to killing innocent people? >> he has a long history of anger problems.
his own father confirms it. shooting out fires of construction workers because they disrespected and mocked him over ten years ago. >> he was getting agitated at the lady making too much noise. >> she ables it was on oh purpose. >> she was afraid of him. >> very much so. this has been simmering for a decade, at least. there could be a triggering event that caused him to wake up a few days ago and say it will happen on this day. af plan. getting guns isn't hard. but the key is it could have been a triggering event or it could have been simmering for ten years and boiled over. sometimes there is no triggering event. sometimes people wake up and say today is the day i will die. >> rudy giuliani brought up, you know, the time he fired the bullet, that it was discharged into the woman's apartment, she was so intimidated it seems we don't follow up. we misds sis signs a lot. >> that happens.
if he was a contractor, what's going on with the background checks from snowden to now when we miss these things? having been an fbi agent, i know when we do background checks we look very -- in law enforcement we go deep into the background checks. i'm not sure what they are doing with contractors. >> great point. 4 million people with security clearance. k.t. saying that's too many. >> right. >> who is doing the background check? we have a whole bureaucracy within the bureaucracy. i don't think you can check everybody out. quick break. we'll have more after the break.
>> a serial killer stretches it over time. the mass murderer is a one-shot deal. >> the serial killer wants to get away with it. >> right, the mass murderer followed the rules. they feel the world is out to get them. they have a persecution complex very often, hold grudges forever. one day they decide to check out and take as many people with them as possible. more than half die by their own hand or suicide by cop. involved in multiple shootouts with law enforcement, he knew the day was today. it seems like, and we were agreeing on this point. we he probably had clearance. >> probably. >> this is speculation. but probably, right? >> yes. >> how do you get an ar-15 in there? >> i'm not a weapons expert. those b can be disassembled into a backpack.
maybe he was recognized by people that saw him every day. he was a nice guy with the coffee, said hello every morning. >> could have been a car. one of the things about mass murderer versus serial killer. if you look at hannah anderson who was just kidnapped. that is a child predator, similar to a serial killer. they are predators. when a child predator, these types of individuals go off the deep end because they are agitated that's more like a mass murderer. they are not looking at life. just revenge or whatever. >> one thing that's common is they don't have a conscience, an ability to have empathy for others and evil consumed them and they disconnect. >> the mass murderer gets ground
down to that. he didn't start that way. he feels life has kicked him in the teeth so many times. >> sounds like his justification, his rationale. in his mind. >> greta is next. see you tomorrow night. 123450eu this is a fox news alert and we are live at the washington navy yard, where wewe are awaiting a news conferencein on today's deadly shooting 12 people are gunned down andd the shooter also dead. the masacre happened after 8:00 a.m.morn one gunman opening fire in the military facility here in theilt heart of washington, d.c. tonight, there is new information about the deceasednh shooter, former navy reservist aaron alexis.is and there is a manhunt for a second possible suspect. rick, the manhunt may be over?
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