tv Graham- Cross FOX News November 7, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PST
twitter. here is a question for you. do you believe that was a real apology? let me know your thoughts. follow me on twitter. check us out facebook. facebook.com/the kelly file. thanks for watching. i'm megyn kelly. welcome to this special edition of fox news tonight. for the hour we pay tribute to the incredible life and everlasting legacy of the reverend billy graham. following the presentation, my hope america with billy graham, i will be joined in studio for a panel discussion about the reverend. sit back and enjoy this special commercial-free broadcast. >> for 60 years, my father billy graham preached the gospel of jesus christ and at 95 he has a
message he'd like to share with you right here from his home. it's a message i believe that can change your life and change the direction of this nation. >> young billy graham hailed another billy sunday. >> one of the most inspirational leaders of the 20th century. >> thank you for coming, brother graham. >> welcome dr. billy graham. >> the man who honors us by being here today. >> what is your purpose? >> going to the world and proclaim -- >> know the truth and the truth shall make you free. >> as i look back over my life it's full of surprises. i never thought i would become friends with people in different countries all over the world. >> for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten
son. >> i see how god's hand guided me . >> god has done this. our country is in great need of a spiritual awakening. there have been times i have wept as i have gone from city to city and i have seen how far people have wandered from god. of all the things that i have seen and heard, there's only one message that can change people's lives and hearts. >> there is a way if you come by the way of the cross. >> i want to tell people about
the meaning of the cross. not the cross that hangs on the wall or around someone's neck. >> we receive our freedom purchased by the ransom at the cross. >> but the real cross of christ. >> the cross expresses the great love of god. >> it's scarred and bloodstained. his was a rugged cross. >> his purpose for coming was to die. >> many will react to this message, but it is the truth. with all my heart, i want to leave you with the truth. >> god says, i love you with an everlasting love. >> he loves you. willing to forgive you of all your sins. >> on our churches we have a cross. it is on our bibles. >> i thought the cross was a relic, a medallion on a
necklace, at best. >> it's an ornament we wear. >> the cross didn't have meaning to me except for something artistic that rock stars wore. >> talk about the depths and meaning of the cross and it becomes an offense. why is that? >> the cross is offensive because it confronts people. even so it's a confrontation that all of us must face. >> i was really hurting and didn't understand the source of my pain and problems. i spent my whole life just burdened for something.
hungering for something, chasing something, this thing i couldn't put my finger on ultimately. i was abused by older people. some in the family, some out of the family. as i got older i always talk theed back, got in fights. my world was surrounded by guns, drugs, gangs. i remember with my friends telling them to watch this. as a lady was driving down the street i jumped in the street and pointed the gun right at her. just to see her panic and freak out. it was just me seeking power. >> my mom always told me about god. i had an idea that god was big and good.
but as time went on and i saw more and more tragic things happen around me, i think that was the beginning of me just questioning everything about life and about god. when i was 10 years old my stepdad came to pick me up. he said that my cousin kelly was dead. i remember being so mad and really just deciding that if god was big and good, why wouldn't he protect my cousin who was so tiny, so awesome, such a funny, brilliant little guy. why wouldn't god protect him from a huge muscle guy like his stepdad who beat him to death? >> i look out across the
audience and i stand there to preach. i think of all the people with different backgrounds and their various needs. i know that they are objects of god's mighty love. to the point that he gave his son to die up on the cross and the cross was most terrible execution by the romans for criminals. jesus endured all of that in our place because of our sins. we deserved the cross. we deserved hell. we deserved judgment and all that it means. i know there are many people that dispute that. people don't want to hear that they are sinners. to many people it's an offense. the cross is offensive.
because it directly confronts the evils which dominate so much of this world. >> you see, the bible teaches that all of us are wrong. we have all gone astray. with with with everyone turned to his own ways. when we return to our own ways we go straight from god's way. that includes the whole human race. that's why the world is in such terrible danger right now. it's not dangerous so much because we have bombs. it's dangerous because we have the human heart in back of the bomb filled with strife, greed, lust and all the other things that can pull the trigger.
>> i remember thinking that same year that my cousin died about the depths of the evil in the world. i never wanted to have kids. it was just a new person to suffer. that was the year i started to cry myself to sleep every night and stopped believing in god. i couldn't get away from my own depression. i started studying other religi religions. there were nice ideas, but there wasn't any tangible healing. i remember thinking i'm tired of the pain in my heart. i'm tired of going to bed that way. i'm tired of feeling like a burden. i'm just tired of not knowing why i'm alive. i remember the night i lay in
bed and knew i was going to commit suicide the next day. i knew i wasn't going to live past tomorrow. >> by 16, i was getting high on a daily basis and got involved with woman after woman after woman. when you mix drugs, alcohol, youth it's cause for an explosion. my mother was concerned about me. i remember she grabbed her bible and said, i don't know what to do. but you just need to read this bible. i remember taking the pages of the bible and ripping them out and throwing them on the ground and saying, i don't care about your god. i don't care about this. this doesn't mean anything to me.
>> one reason that the cross is an offense to people is because it demands -- doesn't suggest -- it demands a new lifestyle. in all of us. sin is a disease and the human heart. it affects the mind and the will and the emotions. every part of our being is affected by this disease. how can we break this bondage? how can we be set free? god helps us break those chains. the bible says if any man be in christ he is a new preacher. old things pass away. everything becomes new. it can make you a totally new person.
>> on the day that i planned to commit suicide, i came home the from school. my grandma was there. she wasn't supposed to be there. she looked at me and said , there is something wrong with you. you're going to church. i was like, no way i'm going to church. she screamed t at the top of her lungs. we were fighting back and forth. i just didn't want to listen to her yell anymore. so i decided, fine, i'll go. then afterwards i will go ahead and follow through with my plan. so i went to the back of the church and slumped down in my chair and hated everybody in the room. the pastor started speaking. i hated him. more than anyone.
he says there is a suicidal spirit in the room. all the hairs stood up on the back of my neck. i got up and went to the door. a white-headed man was there. he stopped me and said, the lord wants know speak to you. he wants you to know that even though you have never known an earthly father that god will be a better father to you than any earthly father could be. god knows the pain in your heart. he's seen you cry yourself to sleep at night. the idea was so overwhelming to me. he's like, do you want me to pray for you so that jesus can take the pain out of your heart? he put his hand on my shoulder and started to pray. it was as if the god of the universe showed up right in front of me and the first thing i noticed was that god was holy and good.
the second thing i noticed was that i was so not holy and not good. >> i was in a really dark place. i was really lonely. really depressed. and a friend of mine reached out and invited me to a conference. i'm thinking, why not? my mind was blown when i got there. i had never seen anything like it. i saw guys with bullet wounds and ex-gang members who loved jesus. i had never seen anything like that before. so i was intrigued. i will never forget the pastor. he started talking about jesus and talking about it in an intense way i had never thought b about before. i never imagined jesus as a real
person going through real things. i thought of him as this fairy, off, distant person. he brought it home to me and start eed about jesus being bean and being whipped for a crime he didn't commit and the skin being ripped off his back and him having to, in the midst of his pain, carry this cross up a mountain and being pinned to it. it was so vivid to me it was like i could see this happening to jesus. i remember him saying how dare you tough guys call my jesus a punk? you know? look what he went through. then the preacher said, do you not know you have been bought with a price? it came to a head. it was like, wow.
>> on the cross, god was laying on jesus our sins. they not only put nails in his hands but before that they scourged him. a roman scourge was a terrible thing. they took whips with pellets on the whips and beat a person almost to death. and then they took the cross and made him carry the cross which in his weakened condition was almost impossible. but he carried that cross to a place outside of jerusalem. then they put nails in his hands. but that was not the real suffering. the real suffering is when he
said, my god, why hast thou forsaken me? at that terrible moment, he and god, the father, were separated. he shed his blood and the shedding of the blood carries with it god's very life. >> the blood is the meeting place between god and man. and the bible says without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. that's what christ was doing on the cross. he was making atonement for our sins. he was shedding his blood. when you take the blood out, that means you are giving your life. that's what it means. it means the life of christ. the cross and the resurrection of christ offers forgiveness of sin, offers a whole new life, and offers you eternal life if
you come to the cross by repenitenre penitenpe -- repentance and faith. >> jesus took this on his own back for me. i remember bowing out, head touching the ground saying i'm sorry, god, i'm sorry. one step led to another which led to another. you know, i was back drinking, sleeping around with women. the conviction that i was now feeling was so strong. i remember driving on the highway just thinking to myself, god, you've got to do something. if you don't do something, i might hurt myself or hurt somebody else. i don't know what's going to happen. just don't kill me. i get cut off by a and my truck just starts tipping until it flips over and starts rolling
fast, glass is coming in, the windshield cracks. i'm not wearing a seat belt at all, so i'm floating around the car. i looked myself over. there was just a piece of glass stuck in my arm. i pulled it out. that was it. i said, lord, i need to get with you. i need you to change me. i need you to really make this real. i need to stop running from you. i was genuinely trying to know him more and read my bible and grow. i really began to be a passionate christ follower. ♪ you set me free ♪ i gave you no reason to give me new life ♪ ♪ new reason ♪ what is the man >> i realized we don't earn
righteousness. our works are like filthy rags to god. ♪ >> jesus lived a life i could not live and died a death i should have died. you know, that gets me every time just to think, man, i gained everything. i'm putting my trust in him. >> if god had looked at me and said, go away forever, he would have been right. it would have been justice. at the same time i felt that, i felt him invitinging me to an embrace of grace and love unconditional.
it was like god is saying, i love you. i know you're tired of the way you have been living and i will make you new if you will let me. my heart just said, yes, i need that, i want that. please. that's why i woke up the next day. i just felt such a peace and a joy almost that i had never felt before. [ baby crying ] >> jesus saved my life. on top of everything else, the life of my son and the new baby. that wouldn't be if jesus hadn't entered me and rescued me.
the almost overwhelming thing is to think that jesus became him and it was my sin and it was the things i had done that held him on the cross. things i had done, he hung naked on a cross bleeding in a shameful way so that i would never have to be ashamed for the things that i have done. the truth is -- the truth is there is no other way besides christ and what he did. there is no life outside of that. >> there is no other way of salvation except through the cross of christ. jesus said i'm the way, the
truth and the light. no man cometh to the father but through me. the only way to the father god is through his son jesus christ. now why jesus? he's the only one that was born into this world without sin. but more than that, he was the righteous one. when you come to him, you are clothed in his righteousness. god no longer sees your sin. he no longer sees your own heart. he sees jesus. >> now, i don't understand all about it. there are many things about the cross and b about salvation that i do not understand. i'm not told that i have to understand it all. i'm told that i'm to believe. and anybody can believe. a blind man, a deaf man, an old person, a young person can
believe. believe mean s commit. i commit my life to him. >> jesus christ from the cross says, i will save you. i will forgive you. i will change you. i will make you a new person if you come to the cross by repentance and faith. come to christ. >> when you come to christ, you come for the way of repentance. repent means to change. to change your way of living and turn from your sins and turn to jesus christ and say, i'm a sinner, i need forgiveness. i know that you're the only one that can change me. ♪
>> the bible says in spite of our rebellion and rejection, god loves you. he loves you so much he gave his son to die for your sins. when christ died on that cross, he became guilty of lying. he became guilty of slander. he became guilty of jealousy. he became guilty of the most filthy, dirty sins. christ took the hell that you and i deserve. now, god said, receive him, believe in him, put your trust and your confidence in him and i will forgive your sins and i will guarantee you eternity in heaven. it's all yours and it's all free. all you have to do is receive it.
>> today, i'm asking you to put your trust in christ. i'm going to ask you to pray this prayer sentence by sentence after me. dear heavenly father, i know that i'm a sinner. and i ask for your forgiveness. i believe you have died for my sins and rose from the dead. i turn from my sins. i repent of my sins. i invite you to come into my heart and life. i want to trust and follow you as my lord and savior. in jesus's name, amen. >> he's alive.
i have given my life not to a dead christ but to a living christ. he's given me a song to sing, a flag to follow. i have reason for existence. i know where i have come from. i know why i'm here. i know where i'm going. do you? >> if you just prayed that prayer with my father, we've got resources we would like to give you. these are resources that will help you grow in your faith in jesus christ. just call the number that's on the screen or go to our website, the material is there. i would like you to remember this. god loves you and the bible tells us that god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. who believes in him shall not perish but shall have everlasting life. god loves you. god bless you. thank you for watching.
tullian tchividian is with us. did i say it right? >> perfectly. >> dr. dobson, we were friends for years. it's funny. everybody i know that has a religious orientation -- doesn't matter what faith, what particular denomination. they love billy graham. he had something and no one else got to that level. >> i don't know if i can explain it except this is a great man. the finest man america ever produced. i met him at one of his crusades in calgary. i had never met him. i came many in and sat on a platform. he came in, walked across the platform and i stood up. he put his hand forward and i said, the dr. the graham, i'm
glad to meet you. he said, calle me billy. i couldn't because of my respect for him. i just have watched him for all these years. i'm grateful. >> they run old sermons of his. >> very powerful. >> you cover religion here. what are your thoughts? >> my thoughts are on two levels. personal and professional level. i cover religion so billy graham is the pastor to the president. he's met with every president from world war ii up to barack obama. that's a legacy in itself. and we were talking in the green room about how he cofounded the cromwell seminary in boston. my pastor went there, started a church in new york that became a
mega church. 6,000 members, eight services a day. planting churches all over the world. that's the legacy of billy graham. it operates on so many levels. >> i have spoken to his son franklin graham who gave the reverend a hard time growing up. you said you were worse. >> without question. my mom can testify to that. >> i was perfect though. >> glad to hear it. the bible says be perfect. there was being in ta family did you feel pressure to live up the to that very, very high standard that this man set? >> surprisingly, never. the reason was my grandmother and my grandfather -- and we cannot forget her. she really, really was the anchor of the family. she was amazing. died in 2007. they both carried themselves so humbly.
they really, genuinely believed, both of them that they were nothing. simply tools in god's hands. they were simple in many ways. so they never put off this aura that they were important or more important than anybody else. so we grew up in a very, very normal atmosphere. there was never -- i mean, there's 19 grandchildren. i'm the only one who is pastoring a church. what that shows is that they didn't put pressure on their grandkids or their kids to get into the family business as i heard -- >> franklin and annie graham. >> they don't pastor a church. i have interviewed will graham, your cousin. it's the same way. all of them have a humility saying i'm here because i believe in the gospel. i believe in what my grandfather and my father taught. they are not there because i want to be a part of the family
business. when you hear stories about tullian, believe me. he was bad. >> okay. let's get to stuff the. >> there was no judgment by billy graham. >> frankly said, too, his father was patient. waited for him until the day that he came and was saved. he tells the story. >> both my grandmother and grandfather were remarkably unconditional people. unconditional. there was never any sense from either of them that we will love you and accept you if you behave. if you do the right things. >> did you have a sense of who this grandfather was or was he just grand dad to you? >> i don't know anything different. you see 40, 50, 60,000 people showing up to hear your grandfather preach, he's always been daddy bill to me. that's what we called him. you get a sense that he's a big
deal and had a big impact. >> one of his last crusades was in new york. i had never interviewed him and i went through a process of being interviewed bf i could do the interview. he had people around him protecting him. i will play a portion of it. after our interview when it was his time to go up and preach he had a walker at the time. it was like he was on a mission. focused. i will never forget the moment. here's part of the interview i had at his last crusade in new york city. watch this. >> how are you feeling? >> i'm feeling fine. >> you look good. >> well, thank you. >> they keep saying this is your last crusade. >> it may be. >> do you think it might be? >> it might be. i don't have the physical strength to go on very much longer. >> yeah. >> my wife is an invalid. i have responsibilities at home now that i haven't had in the past. >> what does that mean to you
that this is your last crusade? >> it's great to be in new york for the last time. because i have held so many in this area. 1957 we were here 16 weeks, every night. >> that was the amazing thing. it was only going on for a couple of weeks. you said, we'll have one last night in yankee stadium. you didn't have room for 20,000 people. 120,000 people showed up. >> right. >> you ended up doing it throughout the summer, throughout labor day. new york is particularly special for you. >> very special. i love new york. every time i see the sign b that has the red on "love" i feel myself in there with people. >> yeah. what is it about you that you can attract these crowds while others cannot attract? >> i think i started out with friends in the media.
we became close friends. randall furst whom i never met but he helped support us in the beginning. a lot of that type of thing. in england, i had held a major crusade there before i came to new york. we stayed there 12 weeks. >> right. >> we were supposed to stay two or three weeks. they played it up big in the press. i toured europe. we had 100,000 people in one night. >> you looked at the numbers. you have for 60 years, over 210 million men, women and children it is estimated. >> i'm not sure b about that. >> that's what it says. is that high? >> maybe more or less. >> when you think back on your life, you have been at this for six decades. do you remember when you were
called to do this? do you remember? >> i remember the first time i ever preached. i will tell about it tonight maybe about how i was very nervous, very tense. i had four sermons. that wases the beginning in northern florida. a little tiny church. it was a cold night. about 40 people. i was so nervous. >> tullian reminds me that was the night we met. the only other time we met. >> yeah. took me seven years to be invited on your show. >> dr. dobson, tell us about your times with him. you were b obviously there the night they put this together. >> i spoke at the cove a couple of weeks ago. i have woven myself in and out of events where dr. graham was
speaking. one of the most memorable -- and you may have been there -- was right after 9/11 at the washington cathedral. >> i was not there. >> president bush, george w. bush was speaking and billy graham prayed. it was the most moving thing that i have experienced. i love that he kept his life clean despite all of tthat goes along with being famous. he never had a scandal of any type. he was faithful to his family. there is no mismanagement with money. at least nothing i knew about. >> he went out of his way -- he wouldn't get in an elevator with a woman alone. >> that's right. >> he didn't want the to be put in that position. that's unique. >> that's called the modesto
manifesto. they got together and decided how to keep their lives clean. that was one of the provisions that he would not be with a woman alone. >> in my situation, circumstance. >> no one would be alone with he anyway. i didn't have to worry. tell us about that. >> just like dr. dobson mentioned, they were serious. they were young guys. he and his team were a group of young guys traveling the country. all of them were married. they knew what typically brought evangelists down in the past -- money issues, sex scandals. they wanted to make sure they stayed faithful. >> right from the beginning. >> even from the beginning there was a financial accountability. he formed the association in 1950. it was run by a board of directors. he was paid a modest salary. even the royalties from the
books went to the billy graham association. you could open the books and it was totally clean. this is how he's run this ministry from the beginning. >> above board top to bottom. >> those that followed and the scandals, it had enormous damage in terms of people. i won't mention the names. we know the names. but people who put their faith, hope, trust in ministers. when they fall, it has a huge impact, dr. dobson, as you know. >> it ripples through the christian community, does great damage. i appreciate billy graham. he's been the place holder for reinesne righteousness. he's not a perfect man and he would tell you. tullian would tell us he was gone too much. >> heaven admitted that. >> he lived a standard of
welcome back. before i bring back my distinguished panel let me show you more of my interview with billy graham from 2005. >> when you think this might be your last crusade, how would you like after six decades, how do you want people to remember you? >> i want them to remember that i was faithful. faithful to the gospel. faithful to the call that god gave me. when i get to heaven i will ask
him why he called me because i was used the to milking cows and working on the farm than preaching. >> your son franklin earlier today told me that he felt you were like a turtle put on oh top of a fence pole. in other words you couldn't have got there by yourself. >> absolutely. i had to have my wife. i had a wonderful staff of people through the years. i started out as the president of a small college in minnesota in 1947, i believe. i had five years of experience in a college. then we went to los angeles and the press heard what we were doing. went to boston for the next series of meetings. that was in 1950. >> you mentioned this to me. do you know what you're going to the say tonight? >> i pretty much know what i'm
going to say. i'm going to ad lib. i'm not going to read it. >> comes from the heart. >> comes from the heart. comes from what jesus said. >> when you think back, do you think of oh things that you think you did right, your successes in life? do you think there is an area where you failed? >> yes, i think that i failed by not studying more and praying more and spending more time with my family. >> has the world gotten worse in six decades? do you see more evil in the world, less evil? >> it's always been the same. is a sinner before god. it's magnified today because you have so many technologies that make what happened in other parts of the room in our living room. >> but you don't think, you
don't see a difference to see changes in the world last 100 years of human history. and human evil. you agree there is evil? >> look at the law they said it was first. because we have haven't gotten that over yet. >> thank you very much >> thank you. >> great honor >> bringing back our panel. now, before we forgetting my interview this, half hour was a important night. explain from your perspective. >> it put a lump in my throat. i think you felt the same way. and no commercials how long has it been since that happened here at fox? >> i'm hoping they do that at my show. the political points i'm
trying to make. >> that is a powerful message. >> it shows if he can, he started out and you've got young people talking about their problems it shows the message in 1945 is still relevant today applying to lines which are probably more damaged and more strung out because of the level of temptations and, you know issues out there. >> i want to get to that in just a moment. what are you saying off air about franklin? franklin? why are you picking on poor -- >> we call him the fun uncle he taught me how to shoot guns. i'm a city boy from south florida we'd visit in the summer time, we'd shoot shotguns in boon, where he lived. and uzis. he had them. he shot them. >> great. >> on motorcycles. >> did he send cops over?
>> yes. going through harleys. yes. >> dirt bikes we rode i mean, i never experienced anything like that. growing up. >> do you know what is interesting, dr. dobson you've been in this fight a long time. i've been criticized for my positions over the years. lauren you've taken hits over the years. >> yes. >> it's amazing that all that you watch society decline. the message that he is saying would help society reverse the decline in many ways. but you can't talk about things he talked about 30 years ago. >> yet he has not changed that message one wit. i mean, he started out with a biblical message. a message not only of the need for relationship with christ, but forgiveness. he emphasized forgiveness. if you have really messed up, you can
still go to christ and be forgiven for that. and if you ever interviewed, excuse me, if he's interviewed he goes straight to the cross. >> always. >> i mean always that same message. because he believes it down in his heart.. >> i asked jerry falwell once, on a controversial show. why do you do that show? he says as long as every show i get to say jesus christ came to save you from your sins and he's there, waiting for you, that is it. >> that is the message. >> yes. one of the message of billy graham has been for the last, you know, 50, 60, whatever years has been about hope. this is why it's called "my hope america" the fundamental unit of every human heart is hope, finding hope beyond themselves. that message plays today, yesterday, decades ago. >> is the generation, i mean
losing reverend falwell, reverend graham, 95 years old, have we lost a little? you were more politically active in years gone by. is there a generation you have hope in? >> i am hopeful, always, hopeful, but we've lost a lot of ground. and i find thate worrie i had a woman tell me the other day, i have not been involved in politics, or public policy. but i'm scared. now. a lot of people are frightened about what's happening in this country. and we need the message of hope. >> there seems to be, i believed that if you look at world war ii, kind of winston church hill, right man, right time, right place. reagan worried about america. in the carter years. right man, right place, right time. seems leaders come. so we're expecting a new, emerging
leadership, are you in? >> i'm happy to preach the same message that my grandfather has preached for 60 years. >> do you study him? do you watch old tapes? >> no. i don't study him. my wife makes comments when she sees old footage of him preaching that there is a lot of -- people have said you watch what he did? and try to imitate? i said no. i guess it's in the genes. but no. i mean, i learned more by watching him privately. what he said was message of hope, god's grace in the person and work of jesus for sinners like me. but it's what i saw privately that led to. that his integrity. his humility. is the most humble person i've ever met in my life. >> great panel good to see you.
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