tv Outnumbered FOX News May 31, 2016 9:00am-10:01am PDT
jon: you want to come back to do another hour? >> that sounds great. jon: we'll see you back then. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> bye-bye. harris: we begin with a fox news alert. donald trump meeting with members of the press to answer critics about what happened to the millions of dollars he said were going to raise for veterans groups. this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, sandra smith, host of "kennedy" on fox business, kennedy herself. fox news legal, political analyst, eboni williams and today's #oneluckyguy, from the great commonwealth of massachusetts, former senator scott brown and he is outnumbered. how are you doing? >> great to see everybody. i'm doing well. harris: are you ready for this. >> absolutely. harris: let's hit it. trump with tough words for the media. saying he is been treated unfairly. you recall in january he would raise millions of dollars for veterans charities including one
million of his own cash. there was a lot of scrutiny what happened to the money. today he said he raised $5.6 million and it has all been paid out and more money is coming. he went on to say he wanted to keep it all private, but the media wouldn't let up. >> the press should be ashamed of themselves and on behalf of the vets the press should be ashamed of themselves. they are calling me and they are furious because i sent people checks of a lot of money and we're going to give you the names right now which is what you want, instead of being thank you very much, mr. trump or trump did a good job, everyone said, who got it, who go it, who got it, and you made me look real bad. i never received such bad publicity for doing a good job. harris: then mr. trump went after hillary clinton. >> when i raise money, for the veterans and it's a massive amount of money, find out how much hillary clinton's given to the veterans? nothing. harris: meanwhile her campaign is launching a multi-pronged
communication effort to blast trump's record on veterans causes. so you've got them going back and forth. will be interesting i'm sure. today trump takes center stage and answers his critics. how did he do? >> i thought he did very well and this is something i've known for a quite a while. who will you give money too. when you actually get those pledges, you actually have to collect the money and it does take a little bit of time. to actually collect all money and get it out the door four months zero overhead, compare that to the:on foundation and -- harris: interesting. >> the amount of money they spend on everything than giving money to the groups that actually need it. harris: among the groups, armed services ymca, 75,000, green beret foundation we're familiar with in new york, i've attended some of their groups, $350,000. there was lengthy list.
he went ahead and read that, there is potentially more coming, 5.6 million. does this quiet the critics. >> of course it does. now everybody will come to his defense and raise more. i'm anticipating having another press conference. we raised another million. we're going to give it to this group. sandra: anti-trump crowd, go on to twitter right now see reaction of those folks, they are going to say, listen this is trump, trump at his finest he orchestrated this entire thing. if you didn't watch the news conference live, we walked into the green room, are you watching this? it is riveting! he sat there i don't know how long listing off every organization and every dollar amount to which he donated to those organizations. it seemed like it went on a very long time. >> that's what they wanted. >> this is him, this is what they're going to say, he orchestrated it perfectly timed he had the spotlight from press and media he could ad advertise all those donations. >> i have to respectfully disagree a little bit, this is
something been a drumbeat for couple months now. now finally to then to the point from attacks clintons, media requests over and over. it is detracting and distracting from the actual message when he goes out and campaigns. what about the money? what about the money? he is going to answer it. harris: eboni, one thing that crossed my mind with this today, part of where hillary clinton has taken a punch has been trustworthiness. if there is any kind of question about his credibility and whether or not you can trust what he says is what he doing, so on, so forth this potentially could have been a powder keg. he needs veterans going forward as part of the bench if you will that you can trust the guy. >> absolutely. what better group of people here in america to have vouching for your credibility than our veterans, my goodness. this is complete boss move by trump today. to your point, i think it is very good one. there will be skeptics that say this was grand plan. trump making it about him. here is the counterargument, he was asked the question from the
clintons, from media people, they were people even in the republican party that were really questioning where was the money going, was it even raised. this was his opportunity and took it in grand fashion to address those questions but i do think fox news's carl cameron had a very good point. a question in of itself is not attack. i don't really understand why trump was viscerally frustrated by the question. >> because he is taking it personally. he is attacking his credibility dealing with vets. i know the guy, al up there. he is friend of mind. came from new hampshire. as defense attorney don't ask the question if you don't know the answer. >> true. >> that's what they do. >> there are a couple things going on here. number one donald trump is one who talked about how much money he raised. it's a fair question, how much money did you raise. he publicly proclaimed it, it was no longer a private matter. you're talking about the va. talking about a organization so wrought with bureaucracy people are dying. that means other people are forced to step in to raise
millions of dollars on behalf of veterans. so that's really important way to pivot the story. and biggest loser here, as you know he, having been in the senate is bernie sanders and hillary clinton, if she were smart today, she would be going after him and his leadership as he chaired that committee where the va completely deteriorated under his watch. i think that is one of his most vulnerable areas. in that regard many people are talking about the wrong things. harris: both of them are vulnerable on that issue. if you just look at recent history with president obama and she being aligned with him, those are her words -- >> she said the va, lines are no problem. no lines, not a big deal. paraphrasing. shows how out of touch she is. harris: frustrating and frustrated issue on that political side of the aisle. i do want to get to just what happened in, i mean it was almost a speech at one point because he was filibustering some of the answers because he wanted to get some of his platform out too, obviously. so donald trump got to pivot on
issue what he would do for veterans who faced medical issues. you heard his description what i would call a voucher system. >> listen, it is a no-brainer. right now the va is not working. they have the ability. they can do it right now. they can outsource. they choose not to keep everything in house and keep all the toys. you should be outsourcing all the mental health they can't handle. you should have 24/7 live coverage on suicide hotline. eliminate all bonuses. get rid of a lot of top-heavyweight picking up paycheck. there are angels works in the va, harris, but there are individuals picking up a check and our veterans are getting screwed. harris: you find that in all of government and. this could be a good thing for donald trump and easily backfires, if he walks out, there were critics and protesters outside, groups who were not agreeing with him going to step up to a lecturn and talk about this and have a comeback,
if you will, he talked about them having gathered outside the trump tower. not everybody is in agreement this is a good thing. >> how do you argue with raising $6 million for veterans? i can tell you first-hand, i have done it, i have raised money for veterans groups and donated to veterans groups and served in the military for 35 years. get a check for 50,000, 75,000, 100,000, $1.1 million is huge. especially as you reference, va and others are not stepping up to do their job, you need, kennedy, to have the backstop and that's what he did, and it is win, win, win. sandra: lot going on. let's stick with politics. of the hillary clinton big change in plans, the democratic front-runner throwing her schedule for the week out of the window, canceling an event in new jersey on thursday heading back to california sooner in an effort to prevent a embarrassing loss to bernie sanders there. as sanders closed gap in recent polls with a survey out last week showing statistical dead
heat in the golden state's june 7thprimary. sanders telling huge audiences there, that he has an excellent chance to win and would be the best candidate to face off against donald trump. listen. >> if you promise not to tell secretary clinton, she is getting very nervous lately and i don't want to add to her anxiety. so if you promise not to tell her, we're going to win here in california on june 7th. [cheering] sandra: she is getting very nervous bernie sanders says. do you agree, senator? >> i absolutely do, i agree. remember she now has to change everything in new jersey, go out to california. she got jerry brown's endorsement, who don't forget called bill clinton the king of sleeze when he was running. she is in deep trouble. bernie is on a roll and she needs to basically even though she will be the ultimate nominee needs to get momentum and there is none. sandra: right now he says he has the best chance of beating donald trump.
do you find, are you in agreement with that? >> well the polls reflect that, sandra but i think we know the electorate really doesn't respond tothe electability argument f that were the case i guess john kasich would be vying for republican nomination. respectfully you know? here is what i think, good for hillary clinton to go back to california. when you know better you should do better. she is seeing opportunities she missed by not campaigning hard and taking bernie sanders seriously. it came back to bite her. i think this is good move on her part to recognize, yes, you have the numbers, you're going to be the nominee but important how you finish. sandra: but, kennedy, looking at this move she has to protect her situation in california. what? how is it that she can't shake bernie sanders? >> because she is not a very good candidate and has blown a 20-point lead in a state that should have been hers and she should never have to worry about it. one of the thing fa falls in his favor, democrats can vote with
independents and democrats it is all-comers. if people want to gamble on sanders passion and authenticity and passion resonate in a strange, diverse and big state like california, does he have it locked up? no, he doesn't. he made incredible ground. i.g. report from last week really hurt her and killed momentum she needed. sandra: say she suffers a loss there, harris. harris: even if it comes close or not a clear victory for her. it looks like he is nipping at her heels you know. so in new jersey the monmouth university polling came out right before we hit air. i want to share this. you have another situation where hillary clinton, i will read, holds now a narrow lead over donald trump ahead of the new jersey registered voters. even they're close there. so she has more than just a bernie problem. it is getting narrower potentially across the aisle and bernie is making that worse for her. if she gets to california and she doesn't do well, she has
celebrities out there, she has a lot of people who give her the optics, if she still can't get it done, shows how bad of a candidate as kennedy says and how much she got nicked by that i.g. report. >> celebrities, frankly that is the establishment and bernie and trump people are tired of establishment, tired of celebrities, tired of all the rich people, we'll go in different direction. >> she has direction, problem, not a bernie problem or donald trump problem, hillary clinton being rejected by many people across this country problem. >> even george clooney bandaid can't stop the hemorrhage at this point. sandra: all right tri. former state department watchdog disputing one of hillary clinton's central defenses in her email controversies that other secretaries of state before her used private email. how does clinton's defense hold up now? one democratic superdelegate that hillary clinton is being unfairly criticized over her email scandal, because she is a woman. really?
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♪ >> welcome back to "outnumbered." a former state department inspector general is rejecting one of hillary clinton's key defenses in her email scandal, the repeated claims she was just doing what other secretaries of state did before here is what he told our own catherine herridge in an exclusive interview. >> secretary rice did not have a personal server. >> can you think of any circumstances under which a secretary of state would need a personal server for government business? >> for government business, i can not. i would have been stunned if she had sent one to me, i probably would have started an investigation. >> meanwhile that same defense from one clinton supporter, california congressman adam schiff sparking this tense exchange with chris wallace on "fox news sunday." listen. >> i think it is very telling though, chris, no interest but
secretary clinton. >> really? because she is running for president. >> does that mean other secretaries didn't use the same practice? that their practices are -- >> first of all we've shown it is different and secondly i think it is frankly a red herring sir, and i expect more from you. >> so, senator brown let's talk about this. obviously it's different. her situation is completely different from condoleeza rice, from colin powell and the other secretaries of state that agreed to meet with this inspector general where she didn't. how is it different for you? >> first of all, remember she said she would be completely transparent and she did not meet, let's start with that, with the inspector general. the only reason she did this was to avoid foia requests and make sure she could keep all of her emails, public or private, private so they could not be subpoenaed period, you know it and i know it. american public knows it. that is why they don't trust her. that is number two. number three, as other secretaries of state we're
finding out that is not true. like cavalier response. feigning indignation and then you get angry and, this is cycle with the clintons. it happens every time there is anyone questions their motives. >> this was almost the right thing for hillary clinton to do, right? how great would have been for her argument if indeed colin powell and condoleeza rice had done the same thing, that they did it too defense would work but for these important distinctions and distinctions matter tremendously, number one, hillary clinton used her personal email server and address exclusively. that is hue among gus. almost 1600 emails compared to like 12. >> personal device. >> personal devices. that is humongous. also now the i.g. report saying explicitly she was indeed in violation of the federal records act. that is very big distinction from the other two. harris: eboni, your expertise being legal, those are differences between her and
previous secretaries of state, but when you look at political side of this also, it is starting to unravel, victim after partisan witch-hunt as she put it before. it can't be that if it is actual state department that you worked for and its inspectors general. it can't be that if it is the fbi and james comey said he is staking his, steak -- staking his career on this. >> she is secretary of state. she is the nation's chief diplomat. that is by definition supposed to be apolitical. two big problems. she keeps going back to the classification defense, nothing was ever marked classified but she signed an nda in 2009 that said, content could be either marked or unmarked and it depends on the content and who is actually -- harris: whether or not it is born classified. >> she is one of the people that can create that classified information. harris: she is one of the markers. sandra: maybe, senator, back me up on this but i think when republicans go into that attack
against hillary clinton's defense of this, they kind of get lost in the messages isn't very clear for voters understand the difference. this, to me, seems very clear. she is saying i did what all these other former secretaries of state did, this guy is pointing out, no, they didn't keep a private server in her home. rice didn't use personal email for government business. it is a huge difference. we're talking about in hillary clinton's case, whether or not she was exchanging classified emails on her home server. >> we know she was. they found thousands including almost two dozen that have highest top secret -- >> she is in trouble. she is in trouble and the american public knows it. pretty simple. >> to your point the really the ambiguity around it. whether you believe extent what she did was felony. sandra: correct. >> the truth you know there is at least mass confusion and fish shurn and ambiguity around it. for many voters that would be -- >> she should have known -- i'm sorry.
harris: real quickly bernie sanders said over the weekend that everybody needs to take a close look at the i.g. report and he said particularly people and his own party, those, superdelegates. >> he is so delicate. harris: superdelegates need to take a look at the i.g. report and what it points to. bernie sanders didn't want to talk about, quote, unquote, that damn email. now he is talking about it. is this the new ground let's go there with bernie sanders? >> meantime as long as we talk about superdelegates, we should continue, superdelegate backing hillary clinton from the democratic nomination is suggesting that sexism is playing role how she is being criticized for her email scandal. listen to colorado governor john hickenlooper. >> she is the most prepared person to run for high political office in this country for several decades. some people say, and i'm not, you have to look at it, if she, if she was a man, all this stuff wouldn't be the same at the same level. there is awful lot of criticism,
literally millions of dollars of criticism against her every week, over things that really aren't that, you know, against a man, wouldn't be brought up like that. >> i can't tell if his lips and tongue are blue because he is oxygen deprived or drinking special kool-aid. >> he is in colorado. >> could be sour patch kids. >> actually have no idea where he is getting that from, kennedy. as a woman, if you are running for highest office in this land we all expect to receive the highest scrutiny that comes along with the process. hillary clinton is not a stranger to that. i really think he does her tremendous disservice with that type of argument. i think she would have to cringe a little bit to hear that honestly. >> create as new level victim-hood. harris: super victim! sandra: i love that. harris: ordained by the superdelegates, delegates with the red capes, gosh darn them. this is bad for her, because
honestly it has to be more about the actual platform that you're bringing in, not the fact -- it can't be about your gender. when a man steps in says it is about your gender, that is not a good thing. >> like give the economy to bill to solve. harris: for a man to handle it. >> that will be his job. >> what is bernie sanders's endgame? his endgame is two things. he is thinking she may get indicted. harris: do you really think he wants to be president. >> of course i do. harris: i never thought it. >> i know bernie. worked with him, it is all about bernie. you actually throw in the other situation, number one he wants her to be indicted. other thing is, going into the convention he is hoping he can peel off like barak did with hillary those superdelegates at convention, create so much turmoil and so much doubt with hillary he is ultimately going -- >> you will see the democratic party certainly take a look at superdelegate system. >> absolutely but it will be too late. >> i think you will see big changes with the party.
sandra: everyone on the couch dismissed this sexism angle that she is being treated unfairly because she is woman because of email controversy of the if we were to give him credit in that statement in the very least, do you you as somebody who is inside of these doors, senator, do you see that happening to women in the high level of politics? do you see them being differently because -- >> women want to be treated the same as men and men get incredible scrutiny every president has gotten in years past. she is running for highest position in the country. she will get the same level of scrutiny as everybody else running. to fall back she's victim, it just doesn't pass. >> i will say this after watching donald trump's press conference today, i don't want to sit here for next almost six months, five months and hear two people talk about how they're being treated so unfairly because they're high-profile or gender. harris: only one is being investigated by fbi. she will feel victimized no matter what the media does. >> i feel like at this point
that is stale and disrespectsful argument to the american people. if you're not accountable to the american people, who are you accountable to? i have no empathy for that. i think she is better than that actually. >> you would think she would have better defense this weekend sending a surrogate out because you're picking on her because she has lady parts. >> i didn't think she send him out there. >> you think hickenlooper went rogue? >> i think he went rogue. harris: i'm all transparency, don't look too hard because i'm a woman and i might be fragile. sandra: can you go to me first because i feel like i was treated unfairly. harris: sandra uncomfortable. twitter war breaking out between donald trump and bill kristol's teeth after "weekly standard" editor tweeted about so-called impressive third party candidate that is expected to come forward. how trump just fired back in blistering response at his news conference just in the past hour.
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a news conference just last hour. let's watch some of that. >> kristol's one, he is last one. don't forget trump will never run. he is not a smart person. he said donald trump will never run, you remember? do you remember? i actually blame you. why do you put this guy on television. i see him on different shows. he has got no credibility, let me tell you. these people are losers. he is trying to, trying to make you, trying to drive you guys a little bit nuts. harris: all righ bill kristol easting his lunch, looking up at the tv, oh, my goodness, what's he doing, what's he doing? your thoughts. >> and choking. first of all on the tweet, when was it over the holiday weekend? are we talking during siesta or party part of the holiday where he may have thought twice putting out something like that because there is no third party, miraculous, incredible gifted wealthy people coming through the door. sandra: where is he going with this.
>> i'm not sure. i quite frankly don't get it. harris: you interviewed bill kristol. >> please. harris: did he get a different type of title since you and i last saw him, defacto leader of gop? i don't understand why -- what is the response? >> i will talk about it in a moment. harris: thank you. >> i want to get to your burning question because i think this is very important. as i saw bill kristol's tweet he is watching c-span, watching goes on in orlando at libertarian party national convention where there was chaos and you saw two former governors, who arguably have the most executive experience of any one running for president and vice president, gary johnson, william weld, both nominated not on first ballot. very contentious. they're seeking backing from the koch brothers. libertarian party also has ballot access in all 50 states. so i assumed because an independent candidate and, donald trump and some of the other naysayers are absolutely right, you can not get on ballot
at this point with totally independent third party. harris: one of my questions, is, what is bill kristol's title now? >> i think bill kristol's title -- sandra: according to donald trump? harris: i'm confused why he thinks he can take off with the train and everybody will jump on the locomotive. >> i think he is a having a party -- harris: want you to see the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and his thoughts on a third party candidate. here it is. >> that could only help elect hillary clinton. i think after eight years of barack obama the last thing the country needs is four more years just like the last eight. anything that divides the sort of right of center world is not helpful and i don't think it's a good idea to do anything that helps us elect hillary clinton. harris: are we all in agreement that bill kristol is having horrible day. that is over breakfast. that he is probably choking over that too. >> mitch mcconnell is representing acceptance. that is many in the gop -- >> big deal for him. >> big deal for him. that is what i'm saying.
there was long time he was adamantly opposed to trump's candidacy. for him to make the statement just how out of touch, delusional and, no seriously bill kristol is, i say that with empathy. harris: of course. >> seriously i have great compassion for someone having principles to feel like their voice is not being heard and really be opposed to that but at some point you have to accept reality and that it is what it is on the left, people are still hoping out hope hillary gets indicted and maybe they have another option as well. harris: what is interesting you're alluding to, ebony, we never thought at this point we would be at place where hillary clinton is having hard time, harder time shaking bernie sanders than donald trump is having scooping up people like senator mcconnell. who would have thought he would have come on board -- >> party is uniting behind donald trump. mitch mcconnell is perfect example. donald went with leadership and mitch and barrasso and thune. i spoke with some of my former
colleagues, number one he was informed and impressive and confident, turn ad lot of minds that day. sandra: doesn't donald trump which has been the theme of his campaign continue to turn ideas and statements like this from bill kristol into win for him? i mean i think you are trying to make sure that my mic was hot coming out of the sound bite with the press conference an hour or so ago, he was asked about bill kristol, he is a loser though are first words. that is win for donald trump. harris: anybody ever been nicknamed by donald trump knows that is hard branding to shake. wow. we'll move on. new fallout over katie couric gun documentary. she is veteran news anchor. initially she denned defended the film despite evidence that the film was deceptively edited. after days of criticism, katie couric is singing a different
tune. why? after tv version of us wraps up we pop up live on foxnews.com/outnumbered. click on the tab and we're multitasking and on facebook live too. that is facebook.com, go to our page, slash, you'd numbered fnc. a lot of ways to catch "outnumbered overtime." o-t, baby. see you in a minute. we asked a group of young people when they thought they should start saving for retirement. then we asked some older people when they actually did start saving. this gap between when we should start saving and when we actually do is one of the reasons why too many of us aren't prepared for retirement. just start as early as you can. it's going to pay off in the future. if we all start saving a little more today, we'll all be better prepared tomorrow. prudential. bring your challenges.
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♪ sandra: we have an update on a story we first told you about last week. katie couric is now bowing to pressure after initially defending her documentary on gun violence that appears to have been deceptively edited. couric says she takes responsibility for a misleading exchange. it involves this scene where couric appears to stump gun rights activists when she asks
them about background checks, watch. >> there are no background checks for gun purchasers. how do you prevent felons or terrorists from purchasing a gun? ♪ sandra: those activists released audio from the interview to the "washington free beacon," showing they immediately answered the question. listen. >> if there are no background checks for gun purchasers, how do you prevent felons or terrorists from walking into say a licensed gun dealer and purchasing a gun. >> well, for one if you're not in jail you should still have your basic rights and you should be able to buy a gun. >> if you're a terrorist or felon? >> and you have done your time, you should have your rights. sandra: even after this was revealed, cure rick says she was very proud of the film and
supported the director but after days of criticism, couric took responsibility for a portion that misrepresented with the citizens defense leak league. when i screened earlier version with the director i questioned her and editor about the pause, was told that a beat was added for as she described its dramatic effect. i went back and reviewed it, agreed those eight seconds do not accurately represent their response. kennedy, i feel like i want to go to you first on this. this is has evoked emotional responses all over the place, including this couch. we've been following the story. misrepresented? did you feel that eight seconds we had to wait until they finally edited in a response? >> if this is only way these film-makers know how to add a dramatic pause, they should have their dramatic licenses revoked immediately. that is so offensive. there are some other ways to
lead the viewer in a moment where they get to gather their thoughts and consider what has just been presented, but what they presented was clear liberal bias. it is confirmation bias and it just shows the weakness of the premise on which the film rests. she should be embarrassed of herself and maybe dan rather was right when he said that the choice of her as replacement was just tarting up the news. sandra: to label this misleading, this was clearly as many critics point out, this was a lie to push an agenda. harris: here is what my 20 plus years of journalism has taught me. this is dramatic and this is drama. what she is known known for is news. she has a choice to do one or other. if you start to do both, you're not in the editing booth to guide the editor along journalistic lines this is what you get. this is what you get.
as journalist what i know in truth-telling in that narrative, if the truth does not sell a story you as a journalist are not allowed to make up the difference and if she watched it and didn't see that is problem, i'm wondering did she watch it before it aired? i have all sorts of questions. >> what should happen to her, her future as journalist. >> harris is hitting the nail on the head. her credibility is certainly in question. this is why she has to do a cleanup job, right? i respectfully disagree with something you say. i don't think this indication of liberal bias. i agree it is confirmation bias. many political documentaries from the right or the left go into the process with preconceived notion. they have a conclusion from the front end. they create a story and narrative to support that narrative. you're right, harris, that is not news. that is not journalism. >> remind me, ebony about the part edited out, senator the part about her question. and the question which she threw to the gun rights activists i already know the answer to your question but i'm going to ask it
anyway. that was not in the piece either. >> first of all you're all right. it is her show. she is responsible and she needs to face the consequences, what those are, who knows. who is she is working for, yahoo! for now? she may not have a job in a little bit so who cares. >> how many millions of dollars to put her name on documentary. she should take ownership from every moment from its inception to the execution. she should be in the edit room with that editor and with that director, if she had issue wit as executive producer she certainly had the power to accurately show the exchange. harris: if she didn't have issue wit, then i have issue with it, not saying at end it was dramatized. this is opinion piece. if she labeled it as such, put that out there as such. part of what makes the documentary earn millions of dollars is based on her journalistic past, her credo. sandra: we'll keep following the story.
he is branded a traitor for his massive leak of security secrets but now former attorney general eric holder appearing to defend some of edward snowden's actions . they work fast and don't taste chalky. mmmm. incredible. looks tasty. you don't have heartburn. new alka-seltzer heartburn relief gummies. enjoy the relief.
harris: we are making more "outnumbered" and we'll serve it up in just a moment. first let's let's go to jon scoh what is coming up in second hour of "happening now." hey, jon. >> hey, harris. you heard donald trump come out swinging in the last hour of "happening now" with a live news conference from the trump tower. he is blasting the media about his giving to veterans groups. he attacked hillary clinton over the controversies hanging over her campaign, also lack of democratic party unity. the clinton campaign is trying to go after trump over veterans issues today, sort of counterprograming. hillary clinton is holding a fund-raiser tonight in new jersey before she heads to california to push in a race that is suddenly very tight between her and bernie sanders. we're also awaiting a news conference from sanders in emoryville, california. he is expected to make another big push for a single-payer health care system. that is all ahead, "happening now." harris?
harris: see you then,. >> thank thank you. >> former attorney general eric holder raising some eyebrows after he at least appeared to defend fugitive nsa leaker edward snowden in a podcast interview. snowden fled to russia in 2013 after releasing national security documents. while holder said snowden should be prosecuted he claims there is at least a benefit to what he did. take a listen. >> we can certainly argue about the way snowden did what he did but i think he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made. now i would say doing what he did, the way he did it was inappropriate, and illegal, i think deciding what an appropriate sentence should be i think a judge could take into account the usefulness of having had that national, that national debate. >> former u.s. ambassador to the u.n. john bolton says along with hillary clinton's email scandal
and this we have serious concerns about the obama administration's handling of classified info. >> what if snowed snowed had revealed the location of american troops overseas or american strategic plans because in his conscience he thought we were doing something wrong? everybody else in this country has a stake and the stake the attorney general has is to be as the supreme court has said, the hand of the president in taking care that the laws be faithfully executed. holder just disqualified himself. >> all right, senator, what do we think? is this an opportunity for edward snowden to be seen as -- sandra: edward. >> excuse me, edward to be seen as hero and traitor or can he be both? >> i called for holder's resignation or firing four or five times when he was working there. i thought he was incompetent. i think snowden is a traitor and should be charged for espionage. and put in jail. there is a reason he is in russia. god forbid he only had access to that material.
i think if he had access to nuclear codes or troop movements or who our spies an firm ants were he would have released that. he has no conscience. to think eric holder oh, if he stimulated public debate. with all due respect we have the debate all the time, drawing line protecting our rights guaranteed under the constitution and protecting our safety and security. rand paul had them every day, every day in the gym we were talking he was on one bike and i was on another we were talking about that stuff. i think it is a line of crap. >> he i did say, holder, that he harmed american interests. is that indication do you believe that he is suggesting that he be prosecuted? harris: he can barely get out the word illegal. he was stumbling, we went from treason to inappropriate behavior. what are we talking about here? did someone get touched wrong? what is he talking about? look what edward snowden did. i disagree with you on one point. i don't think he did it without conscience. i think he would have had different information he would have used his conscience to what
to do with the information. >> that is not true. he had a lot of information and if you read glen greenwald's book and movie, he had a lot of information that could have compromised national security around didn't give it to them. he spurred the conversation -- harris: would we have this conversation without edward snowden? >> no, i don't. have you seen whistle-blowers since then? rand paul ran for president because of edward snowden. we have the usa freedom act because of edward snowden. we have federal judges who actually agree that the united states government was collecting information illegally without warrants that was in violation of the law. therefore, we have had a lost reformation because of him. >> is that what i hear, hero or traitor, what is your take? >> could have done that a different way. he could have gone to his superiors. >> he did go to his superiors. -- >> here is what i will say to
ambassador bolton. , ambassador bolton dealing with what ifs. we have to deal with what is. harris: we're all dealing with what ifs. we don't know what edward snowden has told the russians. i understand what you're saying but we don't know what became public from what we had? >> here is what we know. we know we have had reforms, judicial and legislative and otherwise -- harris: what about all the other information would have come out? >> we have to go. we got to go ladies, certainly love talking about it. >> i do. i do. i love you, i watch you. home, car, life insurance obviously, ohhh... but with added touches you can't get everywhere else, like claim free rewards... or safe driving bonus checks. even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee! in means protection plus unique extras only from
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>> thank you being here with you guys. sandra: thank you to senator scott broken for joining us. we're here for "outnumbered overtime." "happening now." now. bernie sanders nipping at hullary hills in california can. can he pull out a win? >> and first, it seemed like a genuine nice guy. a picture of the victim's body