tv Watters World FOX News June 18, 2017 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
a karamming through a crowd of people, we're going to continue to follow this story throughout the night. right now we're going to take a quick pause and be right back. >> i am jackie ibanez live from new york headquarters this is now 11 p.m., 4 a.m. in london, if you are just joining us we're following breaking news. police say that a vehicle, a van plowed into a group of pedestrian, causing several casualties this time outside of a mosque on seven sisters road in finsbury park section of london, a large crowd is now gather outside. we have seen video from sky news of one person arrested. we do not know who that person is. and whether he is connected to this attack. police say one person has been arrested. we do not know the person's identity. and several have been injured,
possibly killed, there has been no official word on these they talitys -- fatalities if there were, over two weeks ago a van veered into pedestrian on london bridge, setting off vehicle and knife attack killing 8 people, wounding others on the bridge. three muslim extremists who carried out that attack were killed by police, w we goet more perspective from james foreign policy initiative. >> i just landed, a couple hours ago in new york from london. this is a stressful coupl of weeks in london. there was attack you mentioned last week in the market where i was. there was a manchester bombing. of a concert, with a bunch of young kids. then, even there was a nonterrorist tragedy, this week in london, the tower that caught fire. and dozens of people, have were
killed in that, they don't know the total number. then there was an election the week before that with a shocking result. there has been a lot going on in london over past two weeks, a lot strategic. -- tragic, to hear this, justeds to that effect. >> this is like you said, so disheartening to see this happening, within a couple of months, most recent within two or three weeks, what is the vibe there. as you walk around on the streets and i would imagine people are a little on edge, these folks are going after soft targets. >> i was in borough market where last terrorist attack took place. you would not have known that there was a terrorist attack there people were out enjoying, drinking beers, it was a nice afternoon. it was beautiful. london is a huge city.
it is a probably most cosmopolitan city in the world, i think there are more languages spoken in london than even new york. it didn't feel like it was a city on edge. they are resilient people, londoners, you have to remember, they have been dealing with terrorism for decades, back to the troubles with noarlts ern nn ireland conflict. i was impressed with londoners going about their lives. >> that is impressive, as life goes on, have no other option than to operate like that what was your initial take, as you watched this unfolded? we're hearing from witnesses, we know from authorities one person has been arrested, but witnesses say there were two other people
in the car, they ran away, 1 one witness saying there may have been a give and a stabbing -- a knife and stabbing, what is your take? >> we don't know what happened. it does seem like some sort of revenge attack. for the previous attack that were committed by muslim extremists, this appears to have been commit by someone against innocent muslim in response. this is playing into the isis playbook. isis, you know wants to divide muslim communities in the west from the broader society, they want to to create civil wars went western societies, between majority of nonmuslim and muslim population, the more they can ratchet up attention like this seeing a situation where a
nonmuslim extremist is committing a terriv terrorist ak for retribution, this is going to be a tit-for-tat, whoever did this, i believe in addition to committing a horrible crime against innocent people, they are playing into the isis playbook, they are doing what the muslimmi extremists want thm to do. >> are muslims and nonmuslims alike doing enough to come together to combat this, what more could we do. >> theresa may gave a speak after the london attack, she said, enough is enough, we need to have some uomfort able concern visions about extremism and radicalism. you mentioned that fi finsbury k mosque had been earlier, 15 year ago, had been the home of some
very extreme preachers, the manage. of this mosque was changed a long time ago, it is no longer like it was before. this is going to require, the -- you will have to cooperate with the muslim community to combat this. but, at the same time, nonmuslim community needs to realize, that not all muslims, the vast majority are peaceful people, they don't want any parts of this. i think the more we can do to educate you know both sides, that both of us want to live in peace, and only theti extreme minor dooity that is trying to h this violent vision. >> all right, james thank you. >> lieutenant colonel michael walt on the phone, former green beberet, good evening. >> good evening.
>> what do you make of this? 3 weeks after we saw in london bring, now this is outside of a mosque. 12:30 in morning, a car, a van veering into innocent worshippers, here we go again. >> right, one thing that is really striking me is twitter social media, internet is exploding it was white men in a van, clearly, doing this as a deliberate attack. during what is called tar -- prayerers during ramadan, some type of a revenge attk for london bridge or and ariana grande attack, and folks on line, that coming are clearly very upset that the police are not calling this a terrorist attack, they call it a collision, they call it some type of revenge attack but not a terrorist attack. and these folks that am seeing saying if it was an arab man, thoughts would have
automatically called it terrorist. i think what we'll see overcoming days. is a debated over what we're calling terrorism. is that terrorism or a hate crime, you know definition, of terrorists, someone that conducts actions of violence against civilians, to achieve a political end. aside from race, religion, ethnic background. i think that will be a key parts of the debate. how we define terrorism and
terrorists. >> authorizes seem to be cautious before they come out and call anything a terrorism attack. they said no doubt, this was a terrorist attack, wo he plowed through people. there is video of some arrest. one person in custody. this is -- this is something -- >> you know, i think this is occurring. i mentioned it was considering g during ramadan, the holiest of muslim month, the period of
fasting during the day. one of the reasons this area was so crowded is that muslims break fast during sundown, then come out, and a special prayer that the word, means relaxination, it is a special lengthy prayer that muslims conduct. you know they remember coming out of the mosque around midnight that area would have been, would have been crowded. and holy time for muslims. >> prime minister theresa may, her office just came out, she said, all my thoughts are with those who have been injured, their loved ones and emergency services on thing. we've seen this so often, it seems that thoughts are not enough, we need more action. a lot of eyes on theresa may right now. then also sadiq khan, the mayor
of london all eyes on him, what do they need to do? this is happening way too frequently there? >> you know there are a few things, but we need to see from prime minister from mayor, is real leadership. i am talking -- this is going to have all kinds of affect, i am talking to friends could, family, and colleagues in u.s., people are being scared to go to london. to go to paris, to key you know, tourist places, all over europe, i think they are going to start to see a real affect, from a leadership stand point, i would like to see tomorrow or in morning in uk, is that if this was a revenge attack, this is not -- this is not the answer. and a nonmuslim extremist attacking innocent people, any you know race, religion, creed
is not the way forward. there are over a billion muslims in the world that want a peaceful life, a better life for their children like the rest of us. but they need to take leadership from a military stand point, we have take down sanctuaries oversees and long her long-term. >> we have seen a number of maybe hijacks, or problem with planes, you see this ebb and flow of people not wanting to go to planes. people nervous to. go to busy areas, this is an ebb and flow, this is not first time, that we have seen cars plow into people, this has been happening in third world countries for a long time, we're just seeing it pop up more
in our life now? >> you are right. i remember, i remember as say student, going to paris, they had sealed all of the crash cans, a number of algerians in france were engaged in a civil war, where, they put bombs in the trash cans and conducted a series of terrorist attacks. if you remember, communist groups from shining path to red brigade bombing discos, airports. the munich olympics, terrorism is a tactic, it has been a tactic of brutes for decades, if not centuries, there there a difference with a religious and ethnic overlay. i just want to stress, that attacking innocent people because of their background, that is not the answer. and you know, that is escalation, if that is what it is, that is really frightening.
>> indeed, it is. hahait has to stop, we're losino many innocent people, colonel michael -- lieutenant colonel michael walt thank you. >> thank you. we continue to follow breaking now out of london one person arrested, several casualties and several people injured as well, as a van plowed into a crowd of people coming out a mosque, 12:20, monday morning, eyewitnesses saw upwards of 10 people on the ground, one person has been arrested, witnesses saw two others inthe van, that not been confirmed. any names of those who were injured, killed or arrested we're get those as soon as we can. and possible two people, on the run. let's go to sky news, right now, dip to their coverage, see the latest in london. >> let's go on.
reporter: they raved him arrestt him in the back of the car. >> car oask him questions, ask him. >> ask him if he was a terrorist or not, ask him. ask him. reporter: we know he has been arrestd. >> he was not ill, he was not ill. he was not drunk. reporter: mohamed thank you very much for joining us. >> did he look drunk? >> he was sober. >> say in the mic . >> he was sober, okay. something he did oit were, purp. they did to after the prayer. >> after the prayer. >> people walking out. >> deliberately targeting we're shippers. reporter: as they were leaving? >> yes, that is when most amount of would have been leaving. >> that is right, i raise you for that.
>> that was my colleague, senior correspondent, he is live in finsbury park. he was talking there with mohamed abdullah, a witness to this indecent. police call this major. very real sense there of the anger that. the people around there. police have confirmed one man was arrested, a number of witnesses say that there were three people in the van. two people ran away, but not confirmed by police. according to witnesses, police, have confirmed that one person was arrested, and we have footage of that. we will have a look at that now.
>> that was footage of the one arrest. that police said they have made, following this in finsbury park. let's go to hillary, she lives on seven sisters road, where this happened. she is in police cordon. good morning to you. >> good morning. >> thank you hillary for joining us, you live on seven sisters road, can you tells what you saw this morning? >> i got home, as rus usual, walking to fl my flat there wasa
call for prayer, less than hour, a heard a commotion on the street, people were yelling, i rushed downstairs. i realized something was amis. >> this is fox news alert, i am greg in new york we're following events as they continue to unfolded in london, here is what we know, a van slammed into a crowd of people, near a mosque in north london it happened around 12:20 a.m., in london. now several people have been injured, we do not know how many exactly their conditions are unknown at this time. no reports of death as yet. one person has been arrested, no other information about this suspect released. but we are hearing from witnesses on the scene at least one man, telling our british sister station sky news that one
suspect jumped from the van, with a knife, stabbing another person. high wahe was held by worshippeo converginged on him and handed him over to police, and that witness saying that three suspects in the van in call, some saying they saw as many as 10 victims on the ground. that information coming from eyewitnesses. at the scene, we have not verified this as of yet. it has in the bond not been confirmed by police, we know it happened just as worshippers were leaving the finsbury park mosque. on seven sisters road. according to muslim council that happened nearby the mosque outside the muslim welfare house, the van ran over worshippers, leaving the mosque after midnight ramadan prayers. it also added that their prayers
are with those victims, we have been hearing from theresa may, primprime minister's office, she described the crash as a terrible incident, we dean don't have much more, she said my thoughts are with those who have been injured, their loved one and emergency services on seen. london ambulance service saying that injury have been taken to area hospitals, this is unclear if it is terror related, authorities in london are continuing to investigate a possible cause. finsbury park mosque was locks so yeahlong associated with extt ideologies for many years after 9/11 attacks in u.s., but it was then shut down and reorganized. it has not been associated with radical views for more than a decade. before two today, brit app's brs
terroror alert was already raisd to severe. it was raised after recent evens, including the similar attack on london bridge this month, a van plowing into pedestrian there, just 3 weeks ago, suspect in that attack went to to stab several bystanders, 8 people were kill, several others injured, three muslim extremists, who carried that out, were killed by police. and was just days ago that long london suffered another tragedy 58 people at least, either confirm or presumed dead after a missive inferno ripped through a 24-story building in north kensington. the blaze broke out in early morning hours on wednesday, about 18 people, still hospitalized, several of them in critical condition. again, tonight several people
injured, perhaps as many as 10, after a van plowed into pedestrian near a mosque in northern london, one person is under arrest after bystanders grabbed him, handed him over to police. we do not know his identity or the condition of many victims who were injured by the van. but many of the injured are believed to be people who were worshipping in the mosque, they had just left after midnight, ramadan prayers. joining me now, on the phone is rick grenell, one of longest serving spokesmen for united nations ambassadors, diplomat himself, rick, your reaction to these events this evening. and all together clear, unclear, whether this might have been a revenge attack for the attack three weeks ago.
>> yeah we do not know the motive. but we know whoever did this, is a radical, this is not someone who is sane, they are radicalized in some way. it could be religious radicalization, it could be nonreligious. but we know that someone who did this, designed this to te to -- terrorize society, we need to figure out the motive, only way to combat terrorism is to know the motive and go afters motive. i think that we made a big step in focuses on motive when esid trump went to saudi aria, andas able to go right after in fronts of the gcc, go after this idea of the motive, and turning it arounding and saying, so much of the islamic
terrorist, islamists that we've seen, manipulate the islam, we have seen that them say, they believe that they are going to rewarded with a heavenly reward for doing this. what our president, said, in front of gcc was to say, not only are you not going to be rewarded, with a heavenly reward, but will be condemned. this one of first times that i have seen a leader, a u.s. politician go after the mos motive, that is what we to focus on. only way to stop this is understand it and call it out. >> it is your sense, rick, that the president's very powerful words and again, very different from his predecessor, got through to the people in that region who are leaders, in saudi
arabia, and that will change minds, and change course? well, i. >> i think that we don't know. i did like about the president's speech is that, president aid you know we need the help of religion outous leader -- religious leaders, because motive when you talk about islamists, the motive is a manipulative part of islam, so, we need the religious leaders to rise up and say you will not be rewarded with a heavenl reward for this, you will be condemned. we know that there are radicals who believe when they blow up innocent people, they are going toy ricarded an -- they will be rewarded and they are somehow
called to do, that because we're unclean, those people being killed. this is a serious issue, that continues to happen in the world. most was the victims, are muslims, so we need to be able to do is all work together to make it very clear that anyone who acts out in this way will be called out. for -- and condemned by religious leaders, not rewarded, i think flips the script on what many of them are trying to do. we don't know the motive of this individual in london tonight. but we do know is that we have this growing problem in the world. majority was the victims, of the problem are muslim, tonight we see that muslims who are going in to pray during ramadan, are victims.
so, i think whether you are christian or athiest or a follower of islam, you need to be able to -- we all need to be able to come together and say, let's figure out what the motive is. the underlying motive, and attack that motive. i have to say that president trump was first u.s. politician to really recognize to go after it, president obama, was actually very reluck an to talkk about the motive. most people said this is not a condemnation of islam, this is a radical islamist, this is someone who is man inlatin manie religion, i would think, this would be a good thing to call out those who are manipulating
my religion, and people who are spreading false information about being rewarded with heavenly reward, when they will be condemned. >> rick grenell, stand by if you would, thank you. >> a van, with at least one, maybe three suspects, appears to have deliberately drif en into driven into acrowd of worshippeg from a mosque in london, northern part. of london, sky news is updating, 10 people who have been injured, we don't know their condition. no fatalities as yet have been reported. we know at least one individual in that van, this mowed down the worshippers, outside of the mosque was captured by the bystanders and handed over to police, but there were reports
that there were as many as three individuals in the van. we don't know if that true. if it is, what happened to two other individuals. joining us now, james, fellow with foreign policy initiative. author of book, the end of europe dig dictators, demagogues and coming dark agers, thank you very much, a grim title, but it may be appro poe. -- apropos. giving the course of events that we've seen unfolding. we may learn a motive more quickly, at least one suspect has been arrested. police may learn more as to
where he did this. >> it looks like, a revenge attack. based on information we have reported. that would be unfortunate, not just because innocent people were killed, but this plays into the strategy that isis and other islamic extremist organizations are trying to perpetuate in western societies, they want to foment civil wars. there has been a spate of attacks in london, with manchester bombing, many yowm yg people killed in a condition sert, then london bridge, and the borough market, and now what appears to be a retribution
attack, you can see from counter jihadists. >> unless it is actually, perpetrated by a radical islamic jihadist who are angry that this particular mosque had reformed. that it used to be radical. then shot down. this reorganized and became far lesless so, and more moderate ad mainstream, it may have been deliberate attack by radical islamic terrorists, these muslims were not ge jihadist enough. >> we don't have the facts yet, it really toward ha toward speculated, that possibly could be a possibility. >> let me ask you, if this is a revenge attack.
cells this going to escalate the anger such that you know, revenge will begat reven and a back and forth that could be endless. >> that is the problem. that is when we're going to try to stop and prevent this from happening. this tit-for-tat violence from one side to the other. i think now is an important time for leadership from both muslim community certainly their leader to come out condemn violent taken in name of ris lamb of ism broader community prime minister and mayor, nonmuslim leaders to say, violence committed in name of religion against innocent people is unacceptable no matter what the circumstances are.
>> you just came back from london, as i understand it. i want you to tell us, you know attitude that temperature there. -- is there fear? in london, over the space of attacks against people? >> is no fear in a sense that you walk down the street, and i was there the past 4 days, they are crowded with people the parks were full, yesterday there was a huge military parade. celebration of queen elizabeth birthday. i believe so, you would not have known just spending time in london that there had been a spate of terrorist attacks over the last few months. it is a very resilient city, londoners are a tough people, they go on. this country has dealt with terrorism for a very long time, back to th irish republican arm.
that said, it did feel like a stressed out city. that people had enough. because on top of these terrorist indentses theres are awful fire, of a apartment building where dozens of people were killed. that was dominating newspaper coverage, political debate for last couple of days was fire that erupted in the tower in kensington. many people were trapped inside, waawful, london has been througa lot, this is not nothing they needed. >> there are me minutes past the hour. a van shortly after midnight, local time, london, plowed into a group of worshippers, who were
just, merging from the finsbury mosque in northern london, 10 people according to our sister network sky news, have been injured. no reports any of deaths. it is early still, one individual in the van has been arrested. we have being questioned as to the mote if motive, jackie ibano has been covering in is joining me. >> you know, it has been heart wrenching to listen to the witnesses talk about what they saw. worshippers were coming out of mosque by hundreds. then they saw a person in a van, veer around the corner, purposely head into the crowd, and now we hear maybe 10 people that could have been hit.
james do we have you with us. >> yes. >> i heard you talk to greg about temperatures londoners going about their business. what are you hearing about prime minister theresa may, and sadiq khan right now? >> i have not seen l.a their lat statements. >> what are residents saying. >> theresa may has been going through a very difficult time, not for issues related to terrorism. but more because of the mitta m- political situation last week in uk, that she called expecting to do very well, and she ended up losing seats, so she is in deep political trouble within her own party. and the fire, has been exploited by some people in labor party to attack her. she is in a difficult place
little bit opolitically. khan is a popular mayor, he has support of most muss lip in the citmuslims inthety, i hope thatt trump will not aggravate the situation by tweeting at him again. i don't think that people in london appreciate that. they were ful -- dumfounded. >> james thank you. >> ' to bring in david, former policy foreign policy visor to president obama.
your thought on the evens of the night? >> i was also in london last week, before that in middle east. this is a huge topic of conversation in london, people feel a bit like they are under siege, they have undergone so many tragic evens, i don't want to speculate too much about how the attackers are. there are two possible scenarios, one being this is a retaliation, or otherwise some sort of attack on a mosque that used to be radical, is now moderate. you know this is somewhat reminiscent of sectorrian attacks in middle east, where they target mosques at the time
when they come in or out, this a awful, tragic way to do it but this is a way they find a location where there are a lot of people, one would hope this would galvanize muslim moderate community to stand up again this to do more to try to cooperate and make sure we find all islamic roa radicals in whatever community they are in to combat this and identify those people who look like they might engage in this type of thing, early oso we can stop these types of attacks. this happened during ramadan, ramadan is supposed to be a time of peace, you can imagine the muslim community will be really upset about this. other thing to say, different from other discussions be we should pullback and look at what is happening in fight against isis that also impacts this,
isis is now back on its heels in iraq and syria. where it a couple years ago it held a lot of terrory, making what is its last stand in iraq over next 6 months it holds a small mar part of mosul and a ce other towns, this will likely be pushed out soon, then operation to take towns and cities that isis holds i syria, like rack ra back, they will try to get more desperate, this is really a changing point in the fight against isis. >> david, does isis even need to be organized. because, for all we know, and we have seen this in other attacks, they have been conducted by people inspired by isis and self
radicalized with no direction from isis. >> well, that right, you know, and this type of attack is also the least sophisticated of the terrorist attack. this taking a vehicle and driving it to people can be devastating there is loss of life and casualties, but this is simple way to attack people. they are not having to you know, build a bomb, you don't are to even get weapons, so, in that way, if there are people who are inspired by isis, this is an easy cowardly way to attack people, it is very difficult for law enforcement to prevent this but on the positive side, i would think you could say that law enforcement is working in some ways because we're having less and less of these more sophisticated attacks, attacks on transportation systems, and using bombs, which are more difficult to take more planning. >> they are going after the soft targets, does not take much to
get to a van, and plow into a crowd. we had a gust on that was here, maybe -- a guest on, talking about how president trump has been bold in his statement, saying we need to mind the motive and call them out, let them know, a lot of people, when they do this in name of religion, they think they are going to hef ep fo en heaven fo. and president trump saying, not true, you know where you are going for this not heaven. >> i thought that president trump speech in saudi arabia was very good. it hit the right note, it hit the right tone, to extents, yes, you look at what actions were pagtaken on that trip, there waa antiradical islamic ideology
center set up in saudi arabia, this is the type of real action i would like to see our government support more, and i would note in a positive way about president trump's speech in saudi arabia, he acknowledged that islam is a great religion, that everyone who is islamic, who is muslim, is not supporting these types of attacks, that is important for the war of ideas we have to acknowledge there are many, many muslims. far majority of muslims whoen to idon't support these types of attacks, i in order to garner their support, this small cowardly minority that participate and support these attacks. >> why ar are we seeing these so frequently in london, or paris and nice, and germany, the list, european list goes on and on,
but lately, london in particular, outside of the parliament. , then london bridge. then this van here similar viewing a vehicle to now down people. i wonder, if it's the lack of assimilation of large groups of muslims in london? throughout great britain? and europe at large? >> i think that is parts of it, london is a very mull multiethc diverse city. uk has a very ratified las system, they can lead to aliening a that can turn to people then becoming radicalized. that could be a part of it, then extend to other cities in url, europe, brussels and paris, that means that law enforcement there
has a very difficult fact, they have too police these types of activities, but not turn their cities into police states, but let's hope they get as much support as people from -- possible from people, as your previous guest mentioned, people in london are brave and strong, they will get past this. >> david thank you so much. >> 8 people according to sky news have been injured after a van plowed through a crowd of worshippers emerging with a mosque, 10 minutes past midnight in london time, it appears one individual in the van was apprehended by, bystanders then handed over to police, in custody we presume, there were reports that there were their te individuals in the van, we do not know if that is true, if it
is, we do not know what happened to the other two. and there have been no deaths respected so far. >> joining us now. you just came from london. you have a very interesting perspective on what is going on, on the ground there. and people's spirits. >> they are brave. londoners can put up with a lot. i was walking through borough market, people were drinking beers having a great time. but at same time there has been so much stress on their shoulders with one thing after the another, the manchester bombing and the bridge near rest minister, and parliament and a
security guard was killed. there was a fire. but still a major tgedy. the likes of which london has not seen in decade, a fire that killed dozens of people. it has been a really difficult couple of months for london. also a national election last week that was a huge deal. they are going through bre brex. they begin that tomorrow, there so much going on in united kingdom. right now. there is a sort of a underlying sense of tension. average person they are going out and enjoying their lives, they are not allowing these incidents to wear them down or to you know, keep them inside their homes all day. >> have these incidents influenced british politics?
>> i think a lot of people were surprised by the outcome. this usually works in favor of conservative parties, in the united kingdom, if luk lao act u look at way that margaret thatcher dealt with i eye irish republican army. in this last, you have jeremy corbin. strong critic of british foreign policy, after manchester bombing he gave a speech he directly linked british foreign policy support for wars in iraq and afghanistan, to terrorist
attacks that took lace in britain. and many analyst thought that it would have hurt the labour party, a man with a records of this extensive, it would not have helped. yet the election was a shocker, i don't think that most people were voting on foreign policy in this election. the brexit issue was on most people's minds, and the economic issues. it was interesting to see that issue of terror, and second woulsecuritywould not work towad conservative party benefit. >> thank you jais james. >> bacto latest development in our fox senior foreign affairs correspondent, greg, what can
you tell us about the events as they vu have unfolded. >> i am away from london. we're told that it a tense situation right now. at finsbury park near the mosque there. the white van, 12:20 local time, in london, drove according to very eyewitnesses, deliberately into the crowd. crowds of worshippers, who were leaving the mosque at the time. one person was pulled out of the van, trying to leave the van. then he was apprehended from the van by police, from the scene. there were reports of two other individuals inside the van, i am sure, there are reports of
casualties at the scene. i think what is significant is that there are also multiple reports, that there is counterterrorism police officers and armed police officers at the scene. indicates, while the authorities are not saying that this is terror. or deliberate, they are looking at a possible motiving a of this, one quick note, mood there according to our contacts, that we've been talking to people, it is getting angry, people consider this on ground, some kind of an attack on the people there coming from that mosque. and looking for authorities to deal with this. certainly authorities could be looking at possibility it could be a copycat attack in reverse, that is, following the attacks,
of a similar nature by islamist on westminister bridge, london bridge. which left numerous casualties. against this is getting ahead of our story right now, but. >> greg we're learning that one man has been pronounced dead from sky news. one many has been pronounced dead, we know another person has been arrested, we're not sure on the count of casualties. greg, you know you said, authorities were always hesitant to come out and call it terrorism. they want to to their due diligence, i was listening to witnesses talk about it, they were adamant that the way that person came out, with that van, heading directly to the group. there is no doubt in their mind
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