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tv   Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  June 25, 2017 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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week because i will be on an rv trip in california. we will see you back here in two weeks for the next revolution. thanks for joining us tonight. >> i am bright in for chris wallace. all eyes on the senate. as a rebel he planned to replace obamacare. what do they have the votes? quest they believe we have that ability to -- >> will break down what is in this bill and can this bill actually passed? >> the intention is not to take it out is to make a bill better. >> we want to get to yes and
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that his underlying problems. >> we will discuss the battle ahead with senators that helped craft the plan. and robert miller's ability to be impartial. trances robert mueller's ability to be impartial. we will ask if he needs to recuse himself in the investigation. right now on "fox news sunday". and hello everyone from fox news in washington. republicans have continued making headway on their pledge to overhaul the nation's healthcare system. as an obamacare replacement was unveiled in the senate this week. as majority leader mitch mcconnell pushes to bring the bill to the floor for a vote several republicans oppose a peer who will look ahead with dick durbin and john -. but
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first you have tom price with us. welcome back to fox news sunday. >> thank you it is good to be with you. >> what is in this bill for an average family worried about the cost of healthcare and wondering if they're going to be able to get and keep coverage? why should they care about this bill in why should they want this bill? >> i think the thing to appreciate is where we are headed right now is the wrong direction. we as premiums and deductibles increasing. people cannot afford them so they cannot take care. more insurers are announcing that they are not going to be able to provide coverage in 2018. this bill would provide market stability. make it so insurance companies can come back into the market and provide coverage to individuals. it would make it so that there insurance reform so that individuals have more choices.
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it does with mandates so you are not forced to buy something the government wants you to purchase courses you have to purchase. you get the choice as individuals across the land to purchase the coverage that is right for you and your family. then in the medicaid system we say that the states need the flexibility to be able to provide the coverage that goes most appropriate for your constituents, your population. instead of a top-down washington knows best model. it is significant reform. it is a move in a much better direction. it is a patient centered move where patients, families and doctors will be making decisions, not washington d.c.. >> a viewer asks does the senate bill adjust the americas a full within the coverage gap between medicaid and obamacare? what about that mr. secretary? >> precisely, it does a better job. there are 28 million americans uninsured right now. 28 million americans do not have insurance. 6.5 million of them have said
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they have been forced to pay $3 billion in taxes and penalties for the privilege, for the right of not practicing with the government so they have to. what the senate bill does it say every single individual between up to 350 percent of the poverty level ought to be able to have some type of tax credit that will allow them then to purchase the kind of coverage that they want. if it is a tax credit refundable tax credit. so that nobody will fall through the cracks.nobody will have the rug pulled out from under them. we want a seamless transition for those moving from medicaid to the individual market or to a employer sponsored plan. >> this bill is similar in many respects the house bill. it was scored as leaving some twentysomething million uninsured under a period of time than the present law would foresee. what is your response to that
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criticism that it just leaves too many people out? >> two major points this. one is that the congressional office budget does a good job of usually saying what something will cost. they have been woefully inadequate and able to predict the coverage he ran it is and obamacare would tell her about 23 or 24 million people. in fact, it is about 10 million people. so they are off by a significant factor.we believe they are off by a huge factor here as well because they don't get any credit for individuals purchasing some type of insurance that they say is not credible insurance. the second point, that in terms of the entire plan, the bill is not the entire plan. the kind of things were doing at the department of health and human services to make certain individuals across the land have the opportunity again to purchase the kind of coverage that they want for themselves. not that the government forces them to bring
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marketability so prices come down. so deductibles are not so high. that you have a health insurance card but you do not have care. we believe we will get more individuals covered than are covered right now. >> we will see what they say about that but let me ask you this. what do you say to senator heller of nevada who came out this week and said he cannot support the bill in its present form because over time the medicaid changes you are making will mean fewer people are able to afford coverage then are now getting it or would be getting it through medicaid? what do you take to him? >> i say medicaid is not the only vehicle to be able to purchase coverage or be able to have coverage. the goal of the senate plan and the president's plan and he is adamant about this. every american has coverage that they want. again there is a seamless transition to the individual market and the market is more robust because of the kind of changes in the senate bill and other kinds of things that we are doing at the department to
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provide greater choices and lower costs within the individual and small group market.our goal is, if you're not eligible for medicaid in this new construct that you're eligible for the kind of coverage and have the kind of subsidy, the kind of assistance financial assistance to purchase the coverage. >> let me come at you from a somewhat different angle. where rand paul is coming from. he is not alone in this. there are members of the house that feel the same way. perhaps others in the senate as well.his point is you do not repeal and replace obamacare. you leave most of the key elements in place. coverage for pre-existing conditions that people, young people can scan their insurance plan until 26. these subsidies which are a key part of obamacare are largely intact here. this does not affect do the job of repelling and placing obamacare. >> the penalties go with. rental government is forcing people to buy coverage. they are 6.5 million folks are
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paying $3 billion for the privilege of not purchasing that coverage. those go away so that is one. medicare becomes more flexible for states so they can design a program that works for their citizens. as opposed to washington telling the states what they want. that is not obamacare. the taxes in place solely to build a huge government run healthcare system. those go away. that is not obamacare. what we are trying to do here is admittedly, thread a needle and make it so that as the president says, every single american needs to be able to have access to the kind of coverage that they want. ensuring that pre-existing illnesses are covered. ensuring there no lifetime gas, ensuring that individuals have the kind of choices necessary so that the system is responsive to people, to patients. not responsive government. >> mr. devotee said there was a penalty for not having insurance that would go away. it suggests that people with
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pre-existing conditions covered anybody can simply wait until they are sick to buy coverage. and then be covered! that obviously is an issue since you need healthy people in the program to pay for the coverage for people who are ill. what is the incentive in this bill, if any, to get people to go ahead and purchase coverage when they are young and they feel healthy and it is a rational choice not to have it? >> that is a great question. and it really is how do you get young healthy people to purchase coverage so that the pool includes them? the answer is, you provide the insurance company the opportunity to sell something to young healthy people that they want to buy. not that they say, this is .5 million folks out there safe we will write a check so we don't have to buy what washington tells us to buy. we provide a kind of choices. before individuals were able to purchase the kind of coverage that was actually responsive to
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them. that fit their system, their lifestyle, their situation in life. that is what you get folks to buy coverage and providing coverage they want to purchase as opposed to what the government dictates to them they have to buy. >> senator let me turn to the question everyone will be thinking about this week. which will take up, since the plan was brought forward this week, five republican senators have announced their misgivings. there may be four or so others who share those misgivings from various reasons. you are going to be, you can only afford to lose to. you're down five and maybe more. how do you get from where you are now to the 50 votes that you need? >> if you listen to at those five said, and we have talked with every one of them. another senate leadership has as well. the president is talking with folks.if you talk to them, what they will tell you anything they were part of your clips before, is that we want
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to be able to support the bill. we simply believe it can be made better in a certain way. >> can it? >> that is the nature of the legislative process and that what will be working through this week. >> they are coming at you from both sides. you have ted cruz and rand paul that are word for once it reasons and many of the other senators for another set of reasons. aren't you in danger to please one creep then losing others and so on? you have a pretty delicate structure that you risk upsetting we start adjusting this to pick up votes. >> the identify the challenge, there is no doubt about it. it is a thin needle to thread. sadly, as the president has talked about it would be wonderful to have democrats come along and recognize that there are nearly 40 percent of our counties that across the nation, that only have one issuer. one insurance company providing coverage.there will be counties across the country that will not have any insurance company providing coverage.your premiums going
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up, deductibles going up. both have an insurance card but no care. what are our friends on the other side of the aisle from a republican democrat prospective saying to those challenges? why aren't they coming to the table to help out? >> mr. secretary have one of their leaders coming up next and i will ask that very question. (vo) when i brought jake home, i wanted him to eat healthy. so i feed jake purina cat chow naturals indoor, a nutritious formula with no artificial flavors. made specifically for indoor cats. purina cat chow. nutrition to build better lives. dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something set it free.
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senate republicans that took a big spec this week they're going to repeal and replace obamacare. but that that healthcare plan
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have the votes to pass? join us to discuss we have the number two democrat dick durbin and in washington wyoming senator john barrasso. first gu senator dick durbin. let's pick up where secretary present off. is there a single senator that you can identify that will vote for this plan? >> no, not as written. also you two things omitted from secretary prices interview with you.i asked him heavy silly republican plan re: part of the discussion? he said no i have not seen it at all. this is the man responsible for incrementing it. we are going to vote this week and changing health care system in america without any public hearings, without the publication of the bill without any discussion or debate. then we have this expedited amendment process. it is really disgraceful. >> senator i understand your procedural objections to the
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bill. let's talk about what is in the measure and plan as it was announced this week. we have 142 pages or something. what would it take in your judgment to get some democrats to come and vote for this plan? >> take repeal off the table. the other thing was mentioned, what's driving this is not healthcare reform. it is not tax cuts.a tax cut the republicans is done about $700 billion for the wealthiest people in america and pharmaceutical companies. that is what the republicans had to put in the plan to make it work for republicans and then they took the money out of healthcare. out of medicaid. that is why we see 23 million americans losing their health insurance. so those at the highest income categories can get a tax break. take that off the table.let's talk about repairing affordable care act as it exists. >> what you say to senator durbin's objections mr. john barrasso? >> he is absolutely wrong. the crisis is getting worse. obamacare is collapsing every
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day. i was in the hospital yesterday talking to doctors and nurses and patients. there is an urgency to act. we are down to one company providing insurance in wyoming prices have skyrocketed. people are asking for stabilizing insurance markets. senator durbin does want to talk about the fact that in illinois they are way down in the number of people even self-insurance and prices are way up. but we want to eliminate the mandates. they have divided government approved product. get rid of all of the taxes. focus on the fact that this is about healthcare for people who many people in wyoming lost it under obamacare. they had insurance they like and they could afford. the democrats said not good enough for was good enough for them and they could afford it. >> eight pressing a little bit on senator durbin!
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beer that you repeal the taxes in here. the tax cuts naturally gravitate or benefit the people who pay more taxes which is of course, the more wealthy people. and that on the other side of this, over time medicaid funding will diminish. and therefore the argument is that this is repealing and replacing obamacare on the backs of the poor. what do you say to that? >> obamacare will put it on over-the-counter medicines, prescription medicines, medical devices and is often used for the disabled population the most. so it has been very cruel testing on obamacare. but that is what he wants to talk about. we want to eliminate all of that. they protect some people that buy health insurance. or anybody's in health insurance. the cost of that is gone up.
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by the taxes under obamacare. with regard to medicaid.i am chances i was that we could do much better job if we had control of that money and actually help more people with the same amount of money without all of the - >> you mean local control.>> yes. but the amount of dollars going to medicaid from today on out continues to go up year after year after year. so when senator durbin refers to a cut, only washington is giving more each year during something you can see if it doesn't look as fast as he would like it to go up. >> let me turn back to you senator durbin. there is a question about the growth in medicaid spending. the fact that the budget is driven in huge part by the type of program medicaid represents. and with that exponential growth.are we in a situation where something has to be done to curb the growth of medicaid
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and perhaps other programs? >> let me tell you, my friend john barrasso, and he is my friend. we talk a lot about wyoming. over the weekend the head of the wyoming hospital association came out against his bill. and the medical center said it is going to hurt everybody. in wyoming. that is what's being said in his home state. >> she also said she did not read the bill! so she could read it first. >> you could not find the bill and most of it is tax cuts. >> let me get back to my question about - >> may i please? >> sure. >> i might say that the republican governor of wyoming would like to expand medicaid but they will not let him. the reason we need to expand is to make sure the people that are currently working hard and low-paying jobs and have no medical benefits have an opportunity through medicaid to have insurance for the families. why do we have this increase, this dramatic increase in evil medicaid?
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because so many people are working hard every single day and do not have health insurance. medicaid is their ticket to health insurance. and the republicans have decided to put a cap on the amount of money that will be given to states and republican governors like the governor of nevada.the governor of ohio. the governor of illinois said this is a disaster for the state if we do it. >> so nowhere in the comments to hear and answer the question of, is not medicaid expanding at an unsustainable rate? and does not something has to be done for budgetary reasons long term and short to curb the growth of this program and others like it? >> let me tell you what is expanding at an unsustainable rate.that is the notion of people would not have health insurance under this republican approach. let's face the reality. even if you do not have medicaid, even if the republicans are successful in cutting back. people get sick and go to the hospital.a stately kentucky, one of the largest expenses of
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medicaid, if they eliminate the medicaid funding, it will be 165 percent increase in kentucky in uncompensated care. it will be medical care given to these people. the working poor and those struggling and others will have to pay for it.the republicans will not face that reality. >> senator barrasso? >> medicare was set up for people men, women, children and disabled. >> there are ways to modify medicaid, mike pence the vice president when his governor of indiana did a wonderful job of that with the local control that we are asking for across the country.the growth will continue for medicaid. we need to do it in a responsible way. but to just talk about these is being typed it is just not the case. when they dumped all of this additional people onto medicaid and made it that much harder. for the poor women and children and those with disabilities to get treatment they need because
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now more and more doctors are saying actually one third of doctors are saying i just cannot see any new medicaid patients. so obamacare actually made it worse for patients who were originally designed to be helped by medicaid.>> senator durbin?>> i can tell you the republican approach will devastate medicaid. you know who will be hurt? rural hospitals in wyoming and illinois could after hospital association senator. my hospital association put out a statement of the weekend in illinois and said this is devastating. we're going to lose jobs in rural hospitals in illinois. that is the trump constituency that will be hurt unless our approach on the republican side. secondly we will see premiums go up particularly those - >> are they going up dramatically now? >> they are going up now i can say it is a finite group of jewel insurance marketplace people.5 to 6 percent of the overall market. that is what we need to sit down and face. democrats and republicans
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should work together to make the affordable care act work for them. not devastate medicaid.not raise premiums. >> senator barrasso. x senator durbin has no interest in working with us on this. they said in the paper that obamacare rates, a rate shock, another obamacare rate shock. that has what's happened across the country.people are hurt by these incredible increases. this is a program that has collapsed. >> senator durbin to be giving some examples and let you respond. we have something to put up on the screen. in the state of maryland, blue cross blue shield of 52 percent in 2018. you can see in your 49 percent blue cross blue shield. cigna in virginia 45 percent. anthem in connecticut 34 percent, delaware blue cross blue shield of 34 percent. those are pretty sharp increases and those are just a sample. senator, seems to me that to complain the premiums may go up under this plan it seems to me they are going up pretty
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seriously under the present situation. are they not? >> the congressional budget office will analyze the house approach which is similar to the senate approaches we have seen it, they have said is a stable insurance market. there is need obviously for us to work in the individual insurance marketplace with five or six percent of americans who go there. in the meantime, when he puts the insurance company executives and say why are you putting out of markets and raising premiums? they say the uncertainty in washington since the arrival of the president who from his first executive order has been undermining health insurance and the affordable care act, cutting off the individual marketplace which would expand insurance pools and bring premiums down. cutting off assistance for those who need help in paying for premiums. these are the things that are sabotaging and undermining the affordable care act. you cannot have it both ways.
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you cannot claim a death spiral while choking the system to death. >> what about that senator barrasso? >> obamacare has suffocated transit you have over 40 counties with no one selling obamacare insurance. >> senator you have made the case that obamacare is in jeopardy. even senator durbin will agree something needs to be done. the question now is of course whether you and your team of builders can find a way to bring over the senators, you can only afford to lose two. >> every one of them is committed to a fundamental change away from obamacare and central government control and into local control and patients making decisions. will continue to work with each of them to the process. every one of them has very good point that they are making. i want to work on all them. >> do you have the flexibility within a framework to fix this?
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>> i believe we do. i believe he will get it passed. and i think is the only way we can fundamentally change away from obamacare. get rid of all of the hated mandates, taxes and for medicaid on a sustainable course long-term. get on the cost of care and insurance. >> senator barrasso and senator durbin.a great debate from both of you. it's just a burst pipe, i could fix it. (laugh) no. with claim rateguard your rates won't go up just because of a claim. i totally could've - no! switching to allstate is worth it. ito become dangerous.d for an everyday item new tide pods child guard pack. helps keep your laundry pacs safe and your child safer. align, press and unzip. all across america more people are choosing nissan. ♪
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>> this bill is currently in front of the united states senate. not the answer. it is simply not the answer. in this form i am announcing i will not support. >> is a very complicated situation in the standpoint you do something good for one people but bad for another. it is a very narrow path.i think we are going to get there.>> he heard now from
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republican dean heller saying he's not supporting this in its current form at least. the senate health care plan. but the president is saying optimistically he will get the vote but will they? and now we have the head of heritage action for america michael needham. bob woodward of the "washington post", fox news national security correspondent jennifer griffin. and josh holmes mcconnell's former chief of staff. and the republican strategists. let's start with this question. there down five, they cannot afford to lose more than two. maybe others waiting in the wings who may oppose the measure.what are the chances, michael? >> it will be very tight as you mention. probably seven or nine senators who have concerns. i'm optimistic but i think the different camps are looking at different parts of the bill. conservatives are looking at what's going on with regulation. the ability to bring in premiums. some moderates are looking at medicaid expansion. and in a negotiating situation
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when people want different things change there is an optimal. there is an outcome where people can, the presence of his money may be not like the bill but like it. >> i think was notable that the president reached out to senator joe manchin iii of west virginia. a democrat. it is clear they are concerned about the five and they do not believe that they can change senator rand paul's mind for senator mike lee. that is two. they can only afford to lose they are looking at democrats that they can sway. but senator manchin has said he will not support the bill. >> josh, you have been in the leadership operation over there on republican side. you think there is a hope that any democrat will come over? senator durbin says he can identify one to vote for the bill. >> i think the democratic party is not your grandfather's democratic party. i think they will oppose donald trump at every possible corner no matter what. basically no matter the policy outcome is.
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but i share michael's optimism. i think they will get there next week. i really do. if you look at the statements of the senators have made, we have had albert trinity's to draw a hard line and say no and they are giving themselves wiggle room. i think we are having conversations this weekend that will hopefully send that in the right direction. >> bob, your thoughts? >> i think is a fantasy based debate. on all sides here and i do not see how you put it together. i mean, people talk abstractly about medicaid. as the health insurance program for the poor. for the people who cannot afford health insurance. can you now have a system where at least a proposal in the senate that says hey, let's take them off medicaid and then they can buy insurance. but they don't have the money to do it. there is an absurdity in this. >> it is kind of incredible in both senator durbin's comments they want to become a part of medicaid i don't think you have success in the 21st century.
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it was a program designed in the middle of the last century were health outcomes between people on medicaid and the completely uninsured are exactly the same. actually on some procedures were more likely to die if you are on medicaid then if you are uninsured. the hope is that medicaid was originally very targeted program for certain vulnerable populations. people like the disable that barack obama had millions of able-bodied poor people on this. what will happen at the end of the process transits it will be more compassionate, we will be spending more money on the vulnerable population. that is what a modern 21st-century policy agenda looks like. if the democrats want to be the party medicaid then let's - >> wait a minute. that is unfair. i am saying, there is a medicaid that can be made and you made it but to fix it this way, when you have got tens of millions of people on it and say let's, now you can buy
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health insurance. - >> isn't this the age-old story to say that once you put an entitlement program replace people then turned to it and become dependent on it in a way they might not otherwise have done? then you end up in a situation you are always in we have this exploding cost and people worried about losing it. and the result is you have this national debt through the roof and you can never seem to take it away. >> that is absolutely right. if you look at the way the healthcare has developed over the last 50 years in this country, it has taken a significant march to the left. the reason it has is exactly what you just outlined. the democrats have an incremental way of getting to their ultimate goal. which is socialized nationalized, single payer system. ukraine entitlement programs
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for the elderly and entitlement program for the young. entitlement program for the poor and then expand eligibility for three and that is what we have today.>> look at the numbers. there are 11 million people on medicaid since obamacare has been introduced. a 30 percent rise in terms of those on medicaid. if you look at the cost, last year the federal government spent $389 billion on medicaid. in the next 10 years of up to $650 billion. these numbers are staggering. it is perhaps unsustainable. you look at where the greatest pushback in terms of the senate bill is coming from. it is coming from republicans senators or governors up for reelection this year or next. because they know that they have hundreds of thousands of new medicaid voters on the role who are going to lose that coverage and they are very scared of that. >> that raises this question. let's assume for the sake that they have a bill along one
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somewhere between the house and senate bills. that do these things. both do similar things with medicaid. what are the political consequences in the 2018 midterms? >> i think if the parties if the party is capable of making a compassionate case for is going on. there was a full element of barack obama's medicaid expansion. that said the federal government will give more money for the able-bodied publishing versus that population that is more vulnerable. which caused many states to start shifting programs to care more about the able-bodied than the vulnerable. as i compassionate it is cruel. >> i understand what you're basically saying that they can make the right argument than they can avoid political damage. >> they can. i think the biggest threat they have is that this is not a repeal bill. they spent eight years telling people they want to repeal obama care. it does not and they will have problems about that.
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>> so i have this right, your people on the right to say does not do enough to repeal and replace obamacare. and centrist republicans have centrist constituencies who think it will hurt too many people. how do you deal with that? >> the resolution here is senator mcconnell who can be the magician when it comes to putting something together to make the picture where the pieces in the puzzle do not fit. so maybe he is going to make it work. >> josh, your thoughts on that? >> this is a delicate balance. it is extremely delicate to get them on the same page without a margin of error. i think the bill is there. the alternative so we are clear, the alternative to 51 votes is obamacare.>> i get there. what would be the consequences? we discussed consequences of the bill passing which looks like it is difficult. what about the consequences of not passing the bill? >> well, if they do not pass it they will have to go back to
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the constituents in 2018 and explain the republicans will have to explain why they did not do what they said they were going to do. repeal and replace.i would point out the senate bill is rather clever because medicaid cuts come in 2021. that is after not only the election by 2020. >> let's do a simple question. we are all political. without getting into this, in political terms. which is worse? passing the bill politically or not passing it? michael? >> i think from both standpoints that were those it a better place if this passes. >> i think that the republicans will be better if it does not pass and they can say that obstruction, the democrats were obstructionists and washington doesn't work and they tried. >> they have to pass it. this is a quick campaign promise that has been made for the last seven years. i think every republican senator will agree. >> again, this fantasy.
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there is a house bill that has passed that is different. >> it is not different. >> but it is enough that it is something that has to be reconciled. >> let's assume they get it done. >> there is not a magic wand. >> so is it better to pass something or not? >> who knows the future? >> this is a courageous member of our panel who is willing to admit what we journalists hate to admit that we do not know. woman come back. can robert mueller stay impartial? plus, what do you think about holding press briefings off-camera at the white house? you can go to give us your
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off the rails. i think that remains to be true but really if you look at it,
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nancy pelosi can do this. they have nothing. >> and you mean in terms of collision.>> jennifer what collision.>> jennifer what jennifer what about this issue that by acting as ce in or firing games call me. apparently in part because of the way he was handling the matter? >> i think it is clear from the choice of the team of prosecutors that robert mueller has hired so far that he is looking at it seriously. these are people to prosecute that kind of case. between the tweets, the special prosecutor was put into place after a tweet in which the president said that he had tapes of the meeting with company. so every time he tweets, there is a reason in fact, there is a reason that they say you have
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the right to remain silent. every time he tweets and every time he gives an interview, he gives ammunition to mueller and his team. >> i think the president needs to be careful that he is justified frustration stemming from the same exhaustion of the american people have of an investigation that just seems to be about the investigation itself does not create a climate of cover-up. >> i think the investigation has never been officially described as anything other than a counterintelligence investigation. which is to say that its purpose was to find out the extent of the russian attempt to interfere in the election. and it was not therefore criminal investigation. it was never described as a criminal investigation. giving out will believe is become a criminal investigation? >> we reported that it is and investigations as you well know, they must grow. they almost inevitably do. particularly the special counsel which has -
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[multiple speakers] >> they are looking into criminal - >> but what crime? can anyone identify the crime? collusion would be alarming and highly inappropriate for the trim campaign. at which there is no evidence by the way that they collated with their russians. there is no crime in which a method president's firing of james comey, being in obstruction of justice. is that what this is about? >> even white one which people eventually got over there were 15 criminal convictions that came out of whitewater. including bill clinton's successor as governor. i think the question is what was the originrimehat d
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