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tv   Sunday Morning Futures With Maria Bartiromo  FOX News  April 1, 2018 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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good easter sunday morning! thank you for joining us. some republicans say jeff sessions got it wrong by not naming a second special counsel. is north korea or russia a bigger threat to us security right now? and how much of your personal data is being sold on facebook, instagram and google among others. good morning everyone thank you for joining us here in "sunday morning futures", i am maria bartiromo. special counsel looking to doj, fbi and hillary clinton investigation. revealing a veteran federal prosecutor is reviewing wrongdoing by all three. plus legal expert and a former
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us attorney all on whether justice will be served. north korea and russia say that they can strike anywhere in the usa with a nuclear weapon. but which is the bigger threat is washington faces a showdown with moscow? plus potential breakthrough with pyongyang. we have a general here weighing-in. and can you trust facebook to protect information? all that as we look ahead on "sunday morning futures". mixed reactions from lawmakers after attorney general jeff sessions says no for now. a second special counsel. jeff sessions is that previous attorney in charge of review concerns raised by republicans that they can turn unlawful
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dealings and chat a few days and the uranium one. we have a member of the house oversight house judiciary and -- committees thank you for being here this morning. >> good morning happy easter. >> and what do you think about this? by saving the speed with which he goes through this methodical process we can all second-guessed but the fact that he is going through a second process that can and likely will lead to some sort of outside investigator but at the same time, going through in segments of inspector general look at this and within his jurisdiction looks great in the us attorney, who is not tainted by the previous items. i think what he is doing is giving credibility to the fact that he is looking to the truth, not quickly trying to jump to something to find scapegoats. he will, in my opinion, and up
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with an outside entity that has to deal with some of the activity of people still at the department of justice and fbi. >> i think they make a good point because the utah federal prosecutor san in fact seek indictments, can bring charges for something that michael horowitz in the ig office cannot do. >> exactly. what michael horowitz has going for him is he is good before congress for decades. complaining about some of the problems, showing us some of the things wrong at department of justice. including double standards for how they enforce harassment in the workplace. other things of that sort. and so, congress should give him the benefit of the doubt if he is going to turn over if you will, the us attorney, anything that needs to be prosecuted. and he will get answers or he will get an outside subpoena. >> maria: there's a lot to look at with the bias at the
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top of the fbi and the department of justice against donald trump and really the handling of the hillary clinton email investigation. do you think he is equipped into looking independently at those two things? >> i do not think any one or even a dozen people to look at all of that was done wrongdoing the obama administration. remember, eric holder withheld documents lying to congress about what his involvement was and was the first attorney general, the first officer held in contempt. he is actually still very actively part of the obama network. he is one of the lead councils representing california advising them on some of the absurd things they are doing. we are a long way from getting to the bottom of a lot of things. >> well, it is true. not just eric holder but now we're talking about new text messages that suggest a meeting at the white house of some sort
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where -- different people were involved. these two individuals are on cnn trashing the president. even though they apparently, they were well aware of what was going on in terms of this incredible bias and creating a narrative that donald trump had anything to do with the russia meddling. >> perhaps, the best way to hide initially, own involvement with russia was in fact to say look at trump, look at trump. but it is coming back. there was only one passing the money that we can find to the russians. it was the democratic national committee and hillary clinton. >> exactly. because they pay for this for the dossier which was used to wiretap carter page and among others. let me ask you this. it has been so much stonewalling. do you actually have confidence that you're going to get the documents have been requested? your colleague and the chairman of the judiciary committee joined us two weeks ago and
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basically suggested he was about to send in the subpoena for documents. listen to this. i want to ask about the fallout. >> congressman, let's be clear, there 1.2 million documents. you've only seen 3000 of them could have been stonewalled for five months. >> we have seen some documents. see more than we saw from the obama administration justice department but we need more documents and we need them now. we need them unredacted by the way, maria. >> maria: if you keep getting stonewalled and you do not get the documents, are you going to subpoena the documents? >> the answer is yes. >> maria: of course, now we know that the subpoena has gone through. the fbi has responded and mr. for -- christopher wray says he is going to come up with these documents. you left but i think i appreciate his responding and
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saying that he is doubling the efforts but of 26 jesus, if they produce these documents in less per month to 54 people produce 6000 in the next six months? they need to get the documents! >> here is the challenge that congress faces. and we will leave aside who is in the white house. these bureaucracies have gotten very used to using the, we had to look through them we had to reject them we have to decide is just so rather than saying okay, we will agree on release later but we will let you look at all of the documents in their original forms that are appropriate. they do not do that. this is in fact, probably the area which the constitution needs to be tested because whether it was benghazi or the irs, these institutions, these bureaucracies absolutely sit we have to look at first, redact
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them and decide what you get. they have to do this and it has been close to a decade since brian terry was gunned down in arizona in the fast and furious case that eric holder was involved in. and we still do not have the last of the documents. the only learned a few weeks ago that eric holder and his justice department did not use word search that could have gotten some of the documents we were asking for. so yes, we have to have a different system altogether. and it is one of the challenges. no president, no administration wants to say yes, we will look at the raw data and get, if you do not have the opportunity, what ends up happening is you do not get any kind of real-time the guilty get away. they usually retire. >> maria: is anything that can be done to get them moving.i appreciate the spirit that christopher wray is showing us but the point is to me this a
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priority and send them unredacted over to the committee. >> exactly. there is only one privilege that an attorney normally looks for and that is attorney-client privilege be generally it doesn't even exist. within the document so we ask for. there is only one other privilege of any significance and that is the question of was it communication related to the president covered by that constitutional decision by the court. these documents being asked work cover neither of those. in most cases what they will do is reject based on quote - law enforcement sensitive, this is a carwash invention of the department of justice. this needs to be ignored to be honest. my chairman is a good man and he has been very slow to not only issue the subpoena and start saying no, we want to at least have in camera review of the documents in real-time. if we cannot get that, we need to get into the system not
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because it is president trump president obama but because congress needs to have the authority to look at things in real time and right now that has been in elongation. i will give you an example. each of the investigations i mentioned, benghazi, irs, fast and furious. they all took longer to get not done then it took from the date of the watergate to the resignation of richard nixon. that is a difference in the time. that is the time it takes to discovery and that is what is changing the relationship that the american people object to. where no one is accountable. for better or worse, nixon was held accountable in the matter of months. not decades. >> maria: exactly right. at the end of the day for the irs there was really no accountability. what ended up happening to people who targeted those who they did not agree with? nothing!
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and the american people need to be able to trust the government. there irs, cia, fbi and the incredible amount of bias here has been shown. now we actually know. next question is how high up does it go? was president obama directing all of this? >> have no doubt that the president was aware of what eric holder and others are doing. eric holder told us he did not text, using the email and he said this under oath. and of course as we started getting documents we found out the opposite. he was very closely directing this. as a matter fact my favorite quote - is on a t-shirt now for my staff about he was very active. and that is one of the challenges. he lied to congress and eventually admitted that he only was not candid but outright lie. eric holder like to congress.
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none of these people had been held accountable for what is in fact, a crime. >> maria: these are felonies! >> yes. >> maria: congressman, stay with the state we have want to talk about with dangerous cities in your state -- with sanctuary cities in your state and many other things. congressman darrell issa returns after this break to discuss all of that. let us know what you would like to hear on twitter. we have more coming up, stay with us on "sunday morning futures" this easter sunday. the morning walk was so peaceful.
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ceo mark zuckerberg reportedly planning to testify before congress. the company under fire since the revelation of a political consulting firm improperly accessed the data of millions of users. facebooks taking in the with the releases we can never leaked 2016 memo where a top executive prioritizes the companies growth at any and all costs even if bullies are terrorists use the fight to take human lives. i am back with a congressman, darrell issa talking about a free market value a businessman before become a congressman. and you want -- learn what we have about facebook and what we have about the amount of power that these companies have, should there be better guardrails in place to protect user data? >> i think any time a company is essentially monetizing data, there has to be a lot more protection for the consumer. if you contrast apple and
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facebook, apple has a strong tendency to believe in your privacy. they, for years, back when steve was running the company instituted where every employee knows this. meaning that they get it at all levels from top management down. which will reduce the chances of your data being falsely used. mark zuckerberg for better or worse, formed this company by taking other peoples data and if you will, using it without their full permission and that culture seems to perpetuate itself all the way into a multibillion-dollar dynamo. >> maria: i know but what can be done in terms of technology companies and days of data? how can the public feel secure that in fact, they are not selling their personal information? i did a documentary on google almost 10 years ago. and it was, we want an emmy on it because we reported that
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google would anonymize your searches after two years. why? why save my results for two years that is mine? when people go on that search line, you're putting in there your deepest secrets. your searching for things that you may not want anybody to know about. why does google save them for two years? >> well, that is a fair question. and i think in the case of facebook, the fair question now is, where is appropriate oversight and regulation and very much as a libertarian, i would ask people, there are two historic documents or laws that people are aware of. most people agree with. truth in lending, which allows you to know what your real interest rate is and it makes it, it mandates that would be understandable so that you give consent and people kind of get that. and then when we look at other
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consumer protections that we enjoy, including protection from under information being used by a dr. in any way. they have to guard against the loss of that data in a medical profession. in a uniquely more secure way. so do people agree with the hipaa lot of potential healthcare? yes. when we look at regulating these industries i think that there are good at appropriate and necessary protections for the consumer that the consumer is going to want. >> maria: i would imagine so. really quick before you go, your state, california, in orange county, they are going to go against the century city laws of california. will that go anywhere? >> despite both orange county and the sheriff level and san
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diego, i'm sorry escondido where the mayor is leading the fight. this is an example we have communities that want to protect their community and see the california laws that actually hurting them. what was originally a fight with president trump trying to protect 49 states from one bad actor in california is now within the state that the people do not want the criminals released in orange county, they do not want them released in escondido. let's understand, if you lease a criminal alien, they can go anywhere. the only way to really protect america is at the federal level and i'm really proud of a lot of the sheriffs stood up and said i am tired of california tying my hands. >> maria: you are right that is absolutely true. we watch that. very creative. congressman, good to see you. thank you so much!>> thank you. happy easter. >> maria: has serious is the president about pulling the military out of syria quote - very soon. we will talk about that ahead
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on "sunday morning futures".
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triggering a lot of pain after. is that one of the presidents, then president obama is, biggest mistake in the middle east? >> he had two major strategic failures. one was pulling out of iraq and the consequences were isys over the middle east, it was worth. and it was a joke worldwide. recording went up. and the horrible barbaric consequences of that. president obama is accountable for that strategic failure. the second was the nuclear deal that we talked about many times. see those two major mistakes. but first let's listen to the president in ohio this past week this is what he said. >> went knocking the heck out of isaac. we will come out of syria very soon. but the other people take care of it now. very soon. very soon we are coming out. we will have 100 percent of the caliphate sometimes referred to
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as land taken back quickly. but we will be out of there real soon and get back to our country where we belong, where we want to be. >> maria: this concerns you, general. tell us why? is he walking down the same road president obama did when he pulled out of iraq to see? >> there are worse consequences. i think the president gets advice from people who want to have the united states pull out of the world and come home and take care about people and grow our economy etc. certainly, there is some truth to that. but the united states is a global leader. reality is the president went to riyadh last summer and went there in spring of 55 meters and said i will stand with you against the four strategic enemy. i will stand with you to put down and drive out the radical islamists. if we pull out of syria, what i want the audience to understand
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is how we end a war is more important than how we began it. you have to not just win the conflict of the work, maria. you have to win the peace that follows after. that is about stability and recovery. as it pertains to isys and syria, there's 3000 or so fighters still left between iraq and syria. the leaders of isys are down in the euphrates river valley in the southeastern part of syria. we had to clean that up. even after we do that, we have to help the region in syria. the eastern region stabilize itself and recover. if we do not, i guarantee, guarantee that isys will reemerge and it will be another adult in the arm and the barry and by barbaric actions will begin again. we will be turning them over to everyone that will encroach on
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israel and it will be a potential war on the horizon between israel and hezbollah. all of that is the potential of this. and then there is this final thing. which troubles me because president trump renewed the relationship between the united states on the sunni arabs to stand against the iranians and the radicals. he has done that. a peoples adversary who does the same thing as president obama is that in the sunni arabs down here. >> maria: i imagine the saturdays would not like that. who's the bigger threat here? russia? >> russia is a major threat. >> maria: or the middle east? >> what russia is trying to do, maria, is there trying to replace the united states as the most influential country outside the region in the middle easter they had this that they've not had in the
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past for a foothold and is in syria. there were levels this against the sunni arabs. that is the reality pit they want political controlling influence. why? 55 percent of the world economy still passes through the middle east. that is the reality of it. who influences that? major geopolitical influence in the world. the united states cannot disengage here we did not choose this civil war in syria. that is for sure. we contributed to isys being in syria. that is also for sure. we have to stay and do what is right. we're not talking about a lot of chips maria pierce doing it is that 3000 troops, right? is that the number we are talking about? >> the enemy has 3000. we have a couple thousand. the other thing is, we forget history. we stayed in europe post-world war ii. post-conflict for stability and recovery. in germany, italy and japan.
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we stayed in the korean war, south korea for the same reason. we stated bosnia for 10 years after the conflict was over. we won the case in all of those conflicts. as a matter of fact, in germany, italy, japan and korea, we still have troops there. >> maria: that is right. at that point. let me move on. you are making so many important points, general. let me move on to north korea for the month of may will be very critical. not do we only have a mutual deadline for the iran deal. many believe it is not face the president will not renew us participation in that deal but then you have this north korea meeting. the president will meet with kim jong-un. how extraordinary is it is at the north koreans meeting with south koreans and then kim jong-un taking a secret mysterious train to beijing to meet with president xi jinping. now is this deal to me with president trump in the month of may. what are you expecting?
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what are your predictions for us?>> possible the speed at which this policy has moved is nothing short of remarkable. largely due to one thing. that is the trump administration maximum pressure campaign and also put in the military option back on the table. and i am hopeful this is real on the part of the north koreans and the chinese and it is not just a delaying tactic to advanced technology which is what they have always done. when i think about the framework for this i think what will happen is the north koreans will come in their and they have some concessions i suspect just for having the meeting. that is what they have done in the past. we will not buy into that. we also want to say that we want to denuclearize is a term that president xi jinping and others use peer what they mean is that they want to not only take nuclear weapons at north korea, they want to take dissolve the alliance between south korea and the united states and
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remove the nuclear umbrella that the united states has to protect south korea. and they also want to pull all of the us troops out of south korea. and then of course they will want the sanctions to be removed. and those will be the negotiated points. >> maria: general it is great to see you this morning, thank you general jack keane for joining us. and decision not to appoint special counsel, next. stay with us.
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>> maria: welcome back. the justice department dismissing calls for a special counsel and the chassis and abuse investigation.they want to see if the fbi abuse surveillance authority that is 2016 right now will talk about this with erin dershowitz and bud cummins former us attorney for district of arkansas and partner of avenue strategies. good to see you both, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> good morning. >> maria: you think this is the right call on jeff sessions. question should have been up all made when robert mueller was appointed commission never seen an apartment as that special counsel is a first step. it should have been done within the justice department,
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investigator general, inspector general, the responsibility may be an existing career person. then let's see, is evidence of criminal conduct? we had visually never confuse political sins with federal crimes. and i think this is going about it the right way. and calibrated step-by-step. it would have been trained by the answer to having one bad point is not to make a second vet appointment. i'm against the criminalization of political differences within his republic is trying to criminalize democrats or the other way. >> maria: and of course, the prosecutor can bring charges seek indictments and get results quicker than a special counsel would have. >> i think the last point, the time element is, it should not be ignored. the appointment of the special counsel almost inherently as a lifetime these processes. i agree with the professor, this is exactly the right call by the attorney general. when he's trying to do is
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restore credibility to the process and really, i see no reason for the appointment of special counsel right now. apparently he does not either. so he has appointed us attorney john huber to evaluate it and make a report to see if he is missing something. >> maria: how can you make the american people who are looking for justice, feel content in all of this? we know that there were two side-by-side investigations going on during the 2016 election. one was on hillary clinton and one was on donald trump. they created this narrative there would be collusion between donald trump and the russians. we never saw any evidence. meanwhile hillary clinton with all her emails and the scandal of having emails all over the place, method email on anthony weiner laptop and that was just called in matter, not a criminal investigation. his hillary clinton above the
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law? >> of course no one is above the law but we do have absolute equality when it comes to republicans investigating democrats and democrats investigating republicans. one reason i suggested from the beginning the appointment of a nonpartisan commission of influence to look into the whole election. the election has real problems. not who got elected, not whether it had an influence in the election but the russian attempt to influence the election, these are issues that should be investigated in a nonpartisan way. what americans do not want to hear is, one standing for the republican, one standard for the democrats. that is what really creates problems of lack of credibility. >> maria: so assess robert mueller then. because so far, the charges he is brought down, 13 russians, we know that. but then there was paul manafort, the charges there are completely unrelated. to what we are talking about in terms of collusion to request their three categories going on it is important to keep them separately one is the president
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pardoning or firing. that is a complicated and there is a purely private aspect in the allegations by business allegations. it seems beyond the scope of the special counsel. then there is the hybrid active collusion, i think they failed to really understand what a constitutional conflict we would have if the president were ever charged with a crime or with impeachable conduct. for simply exercising his constitutional authority. >> maria: what about that? that they want to take back the house and have robert mueller come up with charges and give it to congress so they can move to impeach the president? >> it is all politics. and the professor quoted criminalization of politics. i for the weaponization of politics. this idea that we have to seek
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a criminal prosecutor for everyone that is alleged to have committed some wrongdoing. it is wrongheaded. and to do this, the special prosecutor process really compounds the problem because it takes away the secrecy and discretion that a typical investigation -- most of the time we investigate people when i was a prosecutor, he did not know about it. and they might not know about it until they were charged. sometimes there is a decision not to charge and the secrecy has protected their reputation. they deserve to not have all of the information derived through the media during the course of investigation. >> maria: i understand but don't we already have evidence of wrongdoing? the clinton foundation had hundred $45 million around the uranium sale. selling 20 percent of the us stockpile of uranium. we know that there was grossly negligent approach to her email. >> there is an enormous difference between political sins and crimes.
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i would be just as much against the cries of lock her up, lock her up as i was against bill clinton's impeachment. we have to be neutral. i do not want us to have criminalization mother is directly against republicans or democrats can my friends do not understand that. my liberal colleagues, they do not understand that. i think i've suddenly become conservative republican supporter. i voted for hillary clinton. i'm trying my best to have a neutral approach. >> maria: you are doing a really good job at it. i know over to the conversation link between michael flynn and the russians, ambassador, that was a felony. we have evidence of felonies here. that's my intention understand how can we do not suggest this? >> it is difficult because frankly, i would hate to see the department of justice under the trump administration attempt to go prosecutor hillary clinton for instance unless it was just a lay down,
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clear-cut, violation. because it would mean the narrative that it was all political. the professor makes a good point that class yet to explore a commission because what we really need is the truth. we need to know if bribes were paid to the foundation because of her position of secretary of state. we need to know what happened in some of these instances. it is not necessarily imperative to hillary clinton that sits in a jail cell. >> i completely agree. every republican truth and truth. had to get the nonpartisan truth? we need to know what the russians actually did. we need to know how to stop them from doing it. we need to make sure what happened with emails never happens again. we need to make sure that all of these sins are not repeated. the worst way to do it is in secrecy behind closed doors with a special counsel in front of a grand jury where we never
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learn anything. >> is his wife being. -- >> maria: which is why this is being done. stay with us on "sunday morning futures". we will be right back.
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the day after chemo might mean a trip back to the doctor's office, just for a shot. but why go back there, when you can stay home, with neulasta onpro? strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection, which could lead to hospitalizations. in a key study, neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17% to 1%, a 94% decrease. applied the day of chemo, neulasta onpro is designed to deliver neulasta the next day,
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so you can stay home. neulasta is for certain cancer patients receiving strong chemotherapy. do not take neulasta if you're allergic to neulasta or neupogen (filgrastim). ruptured spleen, sometimes fatal as well as serious lung problems, allergic reactions, kidney injuries, and capillary leak syndrome have occurred. report abdominal or shoulder tip pain, trouble breathing or allergic reactions to your doctor right away. in patients with sickle cell disorders, serious, sometimes fatal crises can occur. the most common side effect is bone and muscle ache. so why go back there? if you'd rather be home, ask your doctor about neulasta onpro. >> maria: i am back with my
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guests. you both agree a special second counsel is not a good idea. which of the president do this morning? >> under no circumstances testify about allegations regarding his private sex life. that is what clinton did and worked into a perjury trap and got him impeached behavior prepared to defend himself against constitutionally authorized facts. should be preparing right now a big constitutional defense and he should try to testify as little as possible and as constrained matter as possible. >> maria: evidence is right in front of us but i mean when you look at the department of justice, nibbling they can handle all of these cases.
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you think that with the people have been fired that the cleanout has begun. >> well, yes. i believe you have a tradition of operating in a neutral, nonpartisan fashion and apparently this has been a stumble with mccabe and his crew are they live on credibility. when they tried to do this to mother father and brother sister enter to take them to jail you have to believe that their journey because a person committed a crime. they have to restore credibility? that is what attorney general jeff sessions is trying to do. i hope that the other two branches of government stay out of it. hope they let him do his job. >> maria: and even the chairman of the judiciary said there is a handful of people who are incredibly biased. and you just want, they want to abuse their power. >> once i show that the american public restores the credibility. there is no department more important to the credibility of america than the justice
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underline. objective justice for both sides. we began to lose that. you have to restore it. >> you would think both sides of the aisle agree with that. >> and abstract, they do. but no one wants justice with a political opponent. that is the problem. everyone wants it for themselves and their perfectly happy to see the roles of the law stretched when it comes to that. one standard fee request really important conversation thank you both your insight. great to see you. the president is doubling down on his promise to build the wall. a new tweet this morning regarding heartburn issues. how will this go over at the midterms? we will talk about that next. stay with us on "sunday morning futures".
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>> maria: welcome back. the president touting his infrastructure plan. remaining to stay good on building the wall. we have former deputy assistant to george w. bush here along with a white house advisor and a fox news contributor. it is time for the panel. good to see you. the president and the infrastructure plan, good idea? >> a great idea. they divided and there is a very critical time to get jobs done. he has to get it deputy cancers about syria or north korea, making infrastructure. >> you are right because this is something that is needed. but with all of this talk about no money, look at the spending. $1.3 billion. republicans got there but
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handed to them. where does the money come from and what about the people that try to say no more spending? >> is not money that we want to spend. it is what we need to spend. this goes back 100 years some of this infrastructure. we cannot continue infrastructure that is not maintained. we can be creative in the way we that we find this. we should be investing. >> maria: the make america great bond! [laughter] >> amortize the cost of improvements. why don't we pay for an improvement that will last 50 years?spread the wealth, private partnerships, public-private partnerships. there are a lot of ways to find it. >> maria: i like this idea, by the way. the president says, $200 billion in federal funding come from the private sector.>> is but ever since the highly system we built, 80 percent federal. so the state don't have money,
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the cities don't have many can you have the private sector and you have to convince people that the federal government is really their long term it will speed up the process. to get these things built. >> maria: alright so this is on the agenda ahead of the midterms i guess. infrastructure, possible phase 2 of the tax plan and possible regulation on opioids. >> i do not think -- i think congress is done. >> maria: this congress is don . >> i think it will start campaigning for republicans will start looking at holes and my sense is that you have to keep pushing. >> maria: can they keep the house?>> it is a challenge. >> maria: what do you think? what is your prediction for the midterm? >> it will be tough. since the civil war lost about 33 house seats and two senate seats. it will be tough to define history. the good republicans is that they have to spend money they don't have. >> maria: look at what is going on in california right now. with orange county saying, do not agree with this blowing off
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federal law. there is all of this happening on the left. i'm wondering if this comes up? >> it should. there are three or four season orange county area. i received that are competitive. there are seven in california that are all republican. at the end of the day we have to get aggressive. we cannot sit there and let the democrats define us.>> maria: new members in the administration, bolton, kudlow, how is the president doing? quincy is going to pick people that he is comfortable with and support him to request political professionals. something he did not have with rex tillerson who was not a global person or a government person. i think now the president is getting competent professional people to help him. >> maria: so you like the changes? >> i like the changes. he can do it. >> maria: okay we will leave it there. thank you gentlemen always a pleasure. thank you for joining us. that will do it for us on
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"sunday morning futures". thank you for joining us. have a beautiful and blessed easter. i will see you back here on foxbusiness network. stay with fox news right now. a quick break right now and then #mediabuzz. with esurance photo claims, you could have money for repairs within a day. wow! that was really fast. so it doesn't have to hurt for long. that's insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call. ..
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howie: a media eruption that president trump's lawyer raised the issue of pardon and it's unclear if the president knew by the. >> if john dowd knew about this. did the president know about it? did he sanction it or direct him to do it? was it obstruction? >> if it's true, the president is not acting with a clean conscience. >> why would there be conversations of pardon if there was no wrongdoing?


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