tv Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News August 12, 2018 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
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night on the university of virginia campus on the anniversary weekend of the unite the right rally last year in charlottesville. here with our sunday group, marc lotter, juan williams, lisa lerer and charlie hurt. thanks to all of you for being here. let
me start with you. you have a new book called what the hell do you have to lose? which harkens back to something that president trump said on the campaign trail. encouraging african-americans to give him a chance that he got eight percent of the african-american vote which is not a lot but more than romney and mccain.when they ran. how do you think the president is doing on this issue? >> i think it's pretty clear a year after charlottesville, the president continues to talk about blacks, about latinos to his white space as a group,
he'd say black and latinos are dumb, violent and less patriotic than white americans but i think that's racist language but he uses that. a place to that tribalism and in a way, to his political advantage. he seems to think it stirs up his base of voters to support him. but i think it also stirs up and emboldens the white nationalists, the kkk, neo-nazis in this world. that's why he is pulling that when 55 percent of americans see president trump as acting in a way that's emboldening - - >>martha: give me an example of how he's called african-americans dumb ?>> this week he called lebron james that he plays to this racial stereotype of blacks as being less intelligent. he has here, a sort of purposeful lack of attention to the racial stereotype to shut up and dribble. you don't have the right to be
critical of your president. and the way that nfl players are viewed as unpatriotic by trump even though they are simply talking about police brutality and exercising strong constitutional rights. you see this behavior by president trump after charlottesville being mimicked by republican candidates. corey stewart in virginia. congressional candidates that are holocaust deniers. >>martha: they are candidates. respond to what juan is saying. >> i think it's an incredibly unfair assessment of president trump. when he calls lebron james tom, he's not drawing any nexus between his race and being dumb. i think the ones drawing a nexus, they are the ones bringing race into it.
i think the democratic party has by far been worse in the past couple decades. has used race, religion and gender to divide people and they make the whole problem so much worse. i don't think you can possibly deny that democrats have used racial politics at least as much as conservatives may have decades ago. it is tearing us apart. a year ago today, was a tragic event. one innocent person died. two innocent virginia state troopers were killed. let's put it in perspective, when you noted at the top of the show martha, the number of people shot and killed in chicago. on a basic weekend. but the media focuses on this stuff. politicians focus on it because they want to gin up these divisions in a very damaging
way. but i think if we step back and put in perspective, race relations in this country are a whole lot better than i think you would get the impression from reading the media or listening to politicians were trying to make politics out of all of it. i think we should, everybody should call down to put this into perspective. >>martha: couple interesting voices on that. this is lashawn ford was a democrat in chicago. he says he wanted to help people in chicago and i accept that hell. we want to receive help from the president.another voice, kanye west talking to jimmy kimmel had this to say when jimmy kimmel pushed back on his support of president trump. watch.>> liberals can't bully me, the news can't believe me,
hip-hop community. at that point, if i'm afraid to be me, i am no longer kanye. >>martha: let me talk to you about the politics of all this. when it comes to election time, help with this impact the president with moderates and independent voters? >> what's been so striking is that normally, when you have this kind of racial unrest, presidents try to come the situation down. that is not what this president does but he seems to thrive on the tension and divisiveness. but, it really hasn't cost him. a year after charlottesville, republicans are more unified around him. most places on the campaign trail, he hasn't really paid a price for what he said about the charlottesville incident a year ago. i think the take away for a lot of people around the president is that, there's no single incident that is going to tank him in the eyes of his supporters.
or hurt him more with independence either. they're not really holding their breath for a trina moment the. >>martha: and this is kamala harris talking about identity politics. >> i have a problem with that phrase. when people say that, it's a - - that phrase is used to divide and it is used to distract. its purpose is to minimize and marginalize issues that impact all of us. it is used to try to set us up. >>martha: this is the debate we are talking about. your thoughts? >> to charlie's point, democrats have been engaging in identity politics for decades. it's not something that's likely to change anytime soon. i think because of people like kanye west and others were coming out and saying, i'm going to give this president
enchants are the ones who took the president of nsaid what you have to lose. more people are saying, i look at the unemployment rate that president trump talks about. i look at our increased wages. i will give him a chance. the more democrats are going to have to strike fear and keep those people in their political full and i don't think it's going to work in the long term. when you look at the president's approval ratings among african-americans, it's doubled according to some recent polls. about 20 percent. it shows the results do matter and people are starting to think critically for themselves. >>martha: thank you, we will take a quick break. less than a month after the helsinki summit, the work toward common ground is now in the middle of something called economic warfare. where are the u.s. and russia in terms of our relations really heading? we would talk to two key u.s.
that nation's currency tumbling and strained relations between the two nato allies. senator lindsay graham and senator jack reed, both members of the armed services committee join us. we begin with senator lindsay graham. welcome back to "fox news sunday". in a new york times editorial - - went on to say the united states - - until the united states respect turkey's sovereignty and proves it understands the dangers our nation faces, our partnership could be in jeopardy. which leads to the question, is this still a working relationship with turkey? >> we have an airbase in turkey. there a nato ally. it needs to be a working relationship and we need their help in syria and iraq. but they have not just - - 5-6 americans - - turkish citizen to work for the american embassy. we will not have a normal relationship unless they let -
- out. the charges against him are a sham and others who work for the american embassy. they had nothing to do with trying to topple the government. >>martha: in terms of the pastor bronson question and this back-and-forth between turkey and the united states over operations to overthrow the government which is what - - is angry about. it's interesting to see, that relationship - - a way we haven't seen presidents work in the past. you think this will be successful? will he come back and is there a possibility to repair this relationship? we know that turkey wants to buy defense weaponry from russia. also something we don't want them to do. >> this relationship needs to be repaired. it's in turkey's interest to have a good relationship with the united states and it's in our interest . i would like to do one day to a free trade agreement with turkey. get them out of russia's orbit
and back into our sphere of influence where they should be. they will never, start until pastor bronson is out of jail. he had nothing to do with the - - in 2016. in 2016, the military turned on the turkish president. i can understand his concerns but the s 400, being from russia. their premier missile defense system. we need to reset this relationship and the best way to do it is let the pastor come home and start over. >>martha: when the president left for helsinki, he talked about all of the meetings ahead of him. at that point, he said putin might be the easiest of all. that he wanted to find common ground with the leader of russia. now we've got a situation where there are sanctions due to the poisoning that happened in the uk and - - is saying he thinks
they're in economic warfare at this point. is it fair to say the president has put the goal of finding common ground with russia to the back burner at this point? >> i think russia's behavior has dominated the relationship here. i don't mind trying to have a better relationship with russia. they just need to act better to achieve that goal. they did. they are directly involved in killing the british citizen, the poison that was used in britain to kill this former soviet spy who became a spy. came from russia. they are meddling in the 2018 election. i'm 100 percent certain that they're continuing to meddle in our election. so i've introduced hard-hitting sanctions. i applaud the administration for hitting russia based on
what they did in britain. you will never have a better relationship with putin as long as he behaves the way he does and i appreciate the president pushing back. >>martha: i want to ask you. a non-foreign-policy question. with regard to bruce the ã worked for sally yates. he's becoming a much more central figure in what looks to be the initiation of this russian investigation but what you know about that? >> he was the number four guy at the department of justice. his wife worked for fusion gps the firm hired to get dirt on president trump. they hired christopher steele to gather together a dossier. both campaigns were investigate by the fbi and department of justice in 2016. when it came to the clinton campaign, she got a pass. the kremlin investigation of the clinton campaign was a
joke. when it came to the trump campaign, it was corrupt, bias and i think unethical. mr. - - should not have had any role in investigating the trump campaign because his wife worked at fusion gps. - - hated trump, like clinton and started the counterintelligence investigation against him. when it came to dianne feinstein, they went to her and said there's a chinese person working on your staff that we think may be tied to the chinese government. when it came time , they never did the same for trump. these investigations were corrupt to the core. they gave clinton a pass. we need a special counsel to look at all things department of justice and fbi when it comes to the trump investigation, specifically the counterintelligence investigation. >>martha: i will circle back to north korea. the white house has really never explained the discrepancy
between the presidents tweet which says there is no longer a nuclear threat from north korea.and john bolton says the singapore agreement really has not yielded any progress a all. you said at one point the president could potentially receive the nobel prize . so what to say now? >> i think we need to be patient. north korea is going to do, going to respond appropriately or they go to the same way of doing business. president trump has no place to kick the can. if he had to as a last resort, he would use military force to stop their nuclear program. and to the iranians, do you want to be next? i appreciate the president withdrawing from the iran nuclear deal. this is a religious theocracy that's dismembering the middle east. to north korea, if you don't
think trump will turn on you if you try to play him, watch what's going on in north korea. >>martha: senator lindsay graham, thank you very much. joining me now, senator jack reed. thank you for being with us. as we look around the world, what we see is sort of a very broad spectrum of tariffs, sanctions that have been leveled against turkey, iran, russia. also china. you said you felt the tariffs against china were the right move when president trump put them in place. now china is pushing back with punitive tariffs against the united states as well. which some people are concerned could down the road put a dent in the positive gdp growth. here's the president talking about what's going on with china at bedminster this week. >> we want china to do well but we want them to treat us fairl . they haven't treated us fairly for many decades. >>martha: where do you think
this is heading? >> i think the presidents approach has been just coordinated. he has imposed sanctions on a range of countries.i don't think he has a strategic plan. i think he's essentially just lashing out and when he doesn't get his way, he will invoke more sanctions. he's got sanctions against our closest allies like the canadians. that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. i think of yet more focused approach to china. if he indicated what he wanted to change specifically, rather than just generically, we will punish you until you stop doing everything you're doing.i think again has to be much more focused. >>martha: you did say it was a good idea for them to put the sanctions in place and i think a lot of people who look at the trade imbalance, have a similar reaction.he's not wrong about how the united states has been
mistreated. doesn't require patients at the table? >> it requires patience but it also requires a consistent plan and cooperation with our trading partners. rather than going in with a concerted effort, unified effort. he's created issues among all of our major trading partners. as a result, china is able to isolate us and diminish the effect of our sanctions and our policy. the tariffs i think are less critical in terms of chinese tell us and our tariffs. i think the real issue at stake is the way the chinese do not allow our companies to participate fairly in china. to owned companies, to protect their intellectual property. a more focused approach by president trump would be helpful. >>martha: that's clearly what the president is going for. he's talked about it quite a bit in terms of intellectual property. again, doesn't it require patients in the midst of the
dealmaking to wait out the tough part of this because that's a negotiation? do you think ultimately it will draw them to the table? >> i think it requires patience, obviously. but i think it also requires a systematic and calculated and calibrated approach. it's been sort of a wild ride with the president in terms of sanctions he's imposed. it's not just with respect to china. i think he'd be in a stronger position if you unified trading block. working with him against china. he doesn't have that. again the question is in terms of patients, who has the patience? i think the chinese seem to be indicated they will not quickly succumb to these tariffs or these protection measures the united states is imposing. it could be a long process and they might have the ability to wait us out. again, this will show affects on our economy eventually does affect i think will take away from the growth we are seeing.
>>martha: let me switch to iran. obviously the snapback sanctions are in place. the deal is not something the united states is participating in anymore. as a result of that, we saw fairly aggressive moving up of the timetable for iran to carry out its military exercises that it does over the course of this weak. your reaction and when you think that situation goes next? >> first, you are right that they moved up their annual exercises. they've conducted a ballistic missile exercise in conjunction with those exercises. the one thing they haven't done which i think is appropriate and we cannot ever allow is they have not been interfering with the ships going into the straight - -. after withdrawing from the jc- - the europeans ar going to great lengths to push
the blow to the armenians. and then you're in a situation where what's going to happen within tamron. the hardliners will take more power and they will begin to marginalize those people and i think using the term moderate is not particularly accurate. but those much more sensitive to world opinion will be marginalized and the hardliners will take over. and the iranians have the ability for proxies to interrupt, interfere and causes harm in iraq, syria and throughout the region. i think the biggest problem here is we do not once again have a concerted world standing with us against the iranians and they will try to divide and conquer. separate the europeans from us and continue to do that. >>martha: i want to ask you about the space force which got attention and even ripping but it's a serious proposal on the
part of the president that he wants to start the sixth branch of the military. mark kelly, the former astronaut told me the other night he thinks it's a bad idea. that it's a waste of money and it's redundant. buzz aldrin also weighed in and thought it was a huge giant leap for mankind. he's very in favor of it good how about you, senator? >> i think we have to reorganize our space forces because we are now in multiple dimensions. but i think creating a separate service with the infrastructure and bureaucracy is not the way to go. we authorized a sub unified command of space that i think would begin to pull together these different strands. every service has some sort of connective to i was a paratrooper for several years. if you're on the ground, you need gps to give you directions and guidance.that's a space assets. if you're at sea, you need space assets.
this is not a one service dimension. i think creating a separate service would add bureaucracy without effect. what we have to do is unify our current efforts. one of the good models is the joint special operations command. which is multiple services, seals, rangers, green berets, air force and special operators. they operate unified but there's no new service with all of the paraphernalia and bureaucracy. that's the direction we should head. >>martha: thank you sir. coming up, we will bring back the panel to discuss why ãwho worked for sally yates is now becoming a more central figure in how the russian investigation got its legs
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are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. >> the reality is, he doesn't
need to ask a single question on obstruction. he has all the answers. the presidents not going to change his testimony so stop the nonsense. you are trying to trap him into perjury because you don't have a case. >>martha: rudy giuliani on the request by special counsel robert mueller to interview the president. we are back now with the panel. mark, let me start with you. your thoughts on rudy giuliani's tactics and is he trying to convince the president not to sit down with robert mueller you think? >> probably to a certain extent. he said he'd be open to the idea and his lawyers have unanimously said, they are not. i think this is a message in both directions. one for the special counsel to prepare that it's probably not going to happen and secondly, to the president. reiterating they'll think it's a good idea. >>martha: what's the impact if he sits down or does not?
>> this is a pr strategy more than a legal strategy. i feel like i have breakfast with him every morning, he's on my television so much. in the end, this may go to congress. whatever report comes out. this will be a political fight and the presidents team is setting it up that way. we know the presidents lawyers don't want him to testify or interview but they don't want to make it like he doesn't want to do the interview because it may look like he's hiding something. so this all back and forth is way to stretch out the argument, make it look that whether the president is or isn't willing to do it. make it look like he is. >>martha: wish we had a crystal ball so we can see how this story ends. his other attorney also came out this week. he said, basically, we didn't accept the offer from the special counsel that they presented.
which leads to the question once again, lots from rudy giuliani and you do have to wonder if their message. as they have done in a circular way, is at the president. >> no kidding. what more is donald trump going to say. he's answered all of the questions. >>martha: you agree with rudy giuliani! there. >> i do. if he says something intentionally or unintentionally that's not true, on some oncompletely unrelated matter and it ends up being a perjury trap. it's not like the president has been quiet about the stuff that he's opined about every aspect of the investigation, the details on the people involved. if robert mueller would just be satisfied with an interrogation via twitter, then he'd have all of his answers. >>martha: i think he's already had that.
>> the problem is the president keeps changing his story on the trump tower meeting for example. so we don't know exactly what he thinks. but we do know that this week he tweeted that jeff sessions should get active and end the so-called witchhunt. i think what this is about is picking up on the sizzling with, it's a public relations campaign by rudy giuliani and - - to say to people, you can't trust the fbi. you can't trust robert mueller. as a result, listen to me. this is what the president has said. don't listen to the press, that's fake news. listen to what i say. that's what's going on and i think he's speaking to his base in that regard and a lot of this in my mind boils down to a diversionary tactic. >>martha: let's talk about the bruce orr part of the story. according to new investigative reporting, it appears he may
have been more central to the investigation and the beginning, the origins of a russian investigation that we may have realized. this quote from the hill says a close review of these new documents shows how closely deputy attorney general - - who reported to sally yates maintain contact with fusion and in particular, its primary source. christopher steele. before, during and after the election. i want to pull up some of these medications between christopher steele and bruce. this is who they are perceived to be between.this is before operation crossfire gets underway. christopher still wanted to give bruce urgent info - - you are looking at genuine 31st. but let me tell you one thing first. before that happened, they communicated on our favorite business tycoon.
we don't know necessarily with that is point but you can surmise with that might be . that was on july first. he had urgent information he wanted to give to bruce on our favorite business tycoon. then flashforward to july 31. bruce is talking to christopher steele according to these reports, and he is talking about checking to see if he is okay. let's put the january 31 one back up on the screen. the reason why he wants to know if he's okay is because sally yates has just been fired that day. so he's trying to figure out if his connection, this is after the fbi has fired vista for steel. he no longer works for the federal government. he says, just want to check that you're okay. still in situation able to help locally as discussed along with your bureau colleagues. bruce says, i am still here and able to help as discussed. i will let you know if that
changes. then move forward to this cryptic message, if you end up out though, meaning bruce. i really need another bureau question mark contact. who is briefed. we can't allow our guy to be forced to go back home. that would be disastrous. they're trying to investigate who, our guy, and back home, maybe. >> christopher still is likelyl - he keeps coming back. what these messages reveal is he was coming back even after president trump had been sworn in and he's worrying about bruce - - being removed and who will be his contact person. it undermines the credibility of the fbi and doj, obviously. but it reads all of the questions we've had all along about how both the launch of
the investigation, originally, into collusion with russia. but also whether or not there was sort of a vendetta or something. at all levels of the departmen . a vendetta, some effort to try to thwart the president. it should alarm everybody whether your democrat or republican. it should be very alarming. >>martha: that is the question, whether there was a concerted effort between the doj and fbi and christopher steele was hired by the hillary clinton campaign to keep this fire burning. to figure out what they could dig up perhaps on president trump. i want to point out bruce's wife works for fusion gps which we didn't mention before. >> let me offer a different point of view but you have
christopher steele as a former spy, well-respected spy across the globe. who thought he had information. remember the fbi did not disclose that they had an ongoing investigation of donald trump before the election. here comes christopher steele and he says, they're getting rid of obama era justice department officials, who can i talk to if i discover solid information, i think there's not much to this story except to say it - - donald trump's effort to discredit the fbi and justice department and to suggest that somehow there's a grand effort against him. but there's no there, this is a nothing burger. >>martha: up next, i want to ask about the midterm outcomes this week. what do you think are the indications for republicans and democrats from what we saw this week? >> i never put a lot of stock
into special elections in the summer before people go back to school. they are low turnout. looks like were winning that race and will continue to do so. i think the bigger message is to republican candidates, get out there. raise money, knock on doors, do not count on the fact that the president and vice president can come in and help you. because we may have to be in a lot of different places. >>martha: a lot of energy against nancy pelosi. your reaction to that. >> i think republican see that to get republican voters
city at 7:00 p.m. eastern on fox news channel. that's it for today. chris is back next week. have a great week and we will see you back next "fox news sunday". the media take on the president's lawyer as they push back against a possible sitdown with the special counsel. rudy giuliani will be here live. >> why do you want to get him on the ropes to think we are fools? we're not going to let you do that. >> the presence lawyer public negotiating position is the president is so guilty of something that he will lie about it and commit perjury if he is interviewed by the mueller team. that is their public position. i don't envy rudy giuliani pit he's very strong got a client that's a very strong person. rudy giuliani is very experienced at these things. >> will ask rudy giuliani