tv Your World With Neil Cavuto FOX News October 1, 2021 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT
back here at 3:00 and "your world" with neil cavuto takes you through the president's visit to capitol hill as he tries to get what he wants out of this deal. that is a deal. that's what he's looking for here, a win is what the the president needs. can he pull it out on a friday afternoon. have a good evening. >> neil: all right. the president on capitol hill right now and he is trying to get the democratic caucus to at least so far work on the democratic caucus to rally around a plan that will unite progressives and moderates even though they are miles apart. the pitch is pretty much the same. we need a win. now, does that win mean a vote on the $1.2 trillion infrastructure only package that nancy pelosi has promised or does it mean as progressives like to say that we wait and wait and wait until at the very least we get a frame work of far
more pricey spending at $3.5 trillion before we entertain the bipartisan infrastructure package. it's that much of a mess. but in the push to get everything that they want, will the president end up getting nothing of what he wants? welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. this is "your world." fast moving developments where the president of the united states is making the personal pitch himself. some have likened this appearance on the hill even though the president has met with a number of top democrats and a couple of those republicans, the fact of the matter is, this is a democrat-only push to try to get them on the bigger spending same page. satisfy republican -- remember, 19 in the senate that voted for this infrastructure package not to lose hope as well as moderate democrats that don't want to lose the chance to vote on something that they think is worth the money. let's go to hillary vaughn
keeping track of the developments. hi, hillary. >> house democrats, several of them were grumbling after the two-hour meeting this morning didn't make as much progress as they wanted saying that they think the president should be more involved. well, now the president is showing up on their door step. he was greeted by house democratic leadership and he asked house majority leader steny hoyer permission to come aboard. he has the task in front of him to bring both sides of his party together. one of the members joked on their way in that these hard lines dividing democrats, progressives and moderates are school yard positions and biden coming here is like the principal showing up in the room. it's like class is in situation. lawmakers had to stuff their cell phones in wooden cubbies before entering the room. the house democrats huddled for
two hours this morning and still did not break through. several of them are not giving up hope has the president might be able to seal the deal. >> may be fast, may be slower than fast. >> notably missing from capitol hill, senator sinema. she's back home right now in phoenix, arizona. her spokesman says that she's remote negotiating with the white house. progressives have said that they want a vote in the senate on the reconciliation bill first. that is their hard line. with sinema not here, there's no chance that any bill is going for a vote in the senate.
progressives have said that they have still not received a counter offer from sinema or manchin. >> we're waiting on a counter offer. so if you ask me whether i can accept a number or not, i'm not negotiating. >> there's been reports that after this meeting with the full democratic caucus wraps up with the president, the progressive caucus will hold their own meeting with their members after that. neil? >> neil: hillary the one thing i didn't understand when they said we're not going to negotiate with ourselves, there's a number out there, 1.5 trillion number on that human infrastructure package. it's a starting point. she's saying that it's not? is she saying that i've got to see the details or what the
senator would land to cut before she entertains it? >> yeah, the problem in all of this neil, has been the moderate senators, main chin and -- manchin and cinema are not negotiating with progressives. the in between points in all of these negotiations. >> neil: all right. got it. thank you, hillary. let's go to jacqui heinrich at the white house. the president was going to make this trip to capitol hill. he's up there right now talking to the democratic caucus.
is there a concern, jacqui that he's taking this human approach too late in the process? >> certainly is a question being asked of the white house depending on the outcome of his meeting this afternoon. january sack i can said that the president is not going to the hill to sort of pick-off individual votes and pressure people. but i am hearing from democrats who are in this meeting or who are going into this meeting that they felt like the vote was coming together. that they were nearing a place where they might have enough support among their own caucus to put up this bipartisan infrastructure bill and get a vote on it. in fact, congressman dean philips said what was illuminating about this, presidents don't come to caucus meetings to make a pitch. they come to seal the deal. it feels close. so all day today, speaker pelosi was trying to gauge how much support she had in her own
caucus for the bill and decide to bring it for a vote. she doesn't like to bring votes for a fail. progressives have promised to vote this down if they didn't get not just an agreement but a text and a vote on the reconciliation package, which is not possible today. it is not even in its final form. so to get that vote on the bif today, you can't do that without the text and the conditions that they were setting the goal posts were impossible. even this morning congress woman alexandria ocasio-cortez said that the progressives were holding out for the conditions, the text and the vote. without it, they would vote down the bipartisan bill. it's unclear how many progressives will keep to that commitment or republicans making up the difference. that is all part of pelosi's calculation. >> speaker, pelosi, can you answer a few questions? >> i have a very important call.
i'll cam back. >> so the president's ability to speak to the democratic members is a significant thing to get the path forward. aides were trying to get senators manchin and cinema to agree to a package but the frame work alone was not enough for progressives. the progressive leader, jayapal doubted the president's visit would make much of a difference. >> did the president wait too long to get involved in these discussions? >> anybody that has been through a legislative fight before or covered it on the hill knows that the negotiations and the deal making always happens at the end. >> meantime, hanging in the limbo here, the transportation
employees being furloughed. the bill has not been brought up to a vote or a pass. there's a short term fix that would be a plan b if this doesn't come together later on today. it's unclear going hour by hour which way this is going to end up. neil? >> neil: i'm curious and maybe i'm getting way in the weeds on this, looking for one or the other side to blink or show flexibility here. when i heard progressives were talking about not voting on the infrastructure-only package until they had and they stressed a structure in place on the far more extensive 3.5 trillion plan, whatever it will be, rather than outright senate vote on that, that seemed to be a slight change, a pivot from the earlier position voted and approved in the senate and then go to the house. now they're saying structure. are we to overread in to that or
what? >> i think you're right to read into that the way you did. there's so many discussions to get progressives on board. up until today, you saw both sides moving the goal posts. you had prossives saying we're not going to take a frame work. we want text and we want a vote. manchin threw out the 1.5 trillion number, this is my top line number and i came up from zero. there was a lot of that from both sides. behind the scenes what is unclear is just how much progressives are actually going to follow-through with their pledge to vote this down without those terms. that's why eyeballs on how many republicans are going to vote in support of this. you had 19 that did it in the senate. jen psaki called them out in a briefing today and said republicans can get behind this, too. so we shall see, neil. >> neil: watch it very closely. thanks, jacqui. to jacqui's point where the 1.5
trillion figure that joe manchin just threw was there was cheap, nothing progressive about it, leave it to brian -- i don't know if you have ever read his work. today in "the new york times." he's the manhattan institute fellow. put it in great perspective. $1.5 trillion is a lot of money. used to be the entire budget of the united states. used to be our entire debt at the start of the ronald reagan administration. yet they're getting hot under the collar of joe manchin because he would throw out a low figure what did you think of that? >> yeah, 1.5 trillion was a huge number. i remember when republicans cut taxes by 1.5 trillion. with us a budget busting number. i remember a $400 million
medicare bill that was huge. it's not just the 1.5 trillion. there's a 1.9 trillion stimulus bill that already passed. the infrastructure bill would add 550 billion. the extensions of policies like the child tax credit with big expiration dates and the president has committed to increasing deficit spending. so this 1.5 trillion is part of a five or six trillion increase in spending that the democrats are looking to pass in a span of nine months. >> neil: it's interesting too, when you refer to the package that roughly 1/2 a trillion even though you hear the 1.2 trillion, repurpose ago lot of covid funding plans to do that. it's still an eye popping figure. it says a lot about the times in which we live that if you're only going to do something at 1.5 trillion, there's something
wrong here. i'm just wondering where this goes. i know both sides say it's not about the final number, the details, the priorities. the progressive caucus said how much you're going to cut. krysten sinema has not weighed in with a number of her own and let's discuss that. it's going to be bigger than 1.5 trillion. it's going to be smaller than 3.5 trillion. you also reported on the notion that those numbers don't give you a gauge of how big this thing is. right? >> yeah. i mean, they're using so many gimmicks to cover up the cost of these bills. the way they're shrinking the bill down is by having all sorts of policies expire in 2025 and 206 that democrats have no intention of expiring. the example is the child tax credit. the democrat it's are assuming in the bill that that expires at
2025 even though they have announced they have no intention of expiring. this will add a trillion dollars to the cost of the bill, this is washington budget accounting, gimmicks to cover up the costs. >> neil: i suspect -- i'm jaded about this. this is not a red or blue issue. i've seen how these things come together. you can make the figures work for you. you talk about expiring credits when we know full well that any congress, republican or democrat, especially if they're popular, they're not going to let them go. they're going to keep renewing them because these pennies have a way of growing. having said that though, i'm wondering why the progressives are holding the moderates hostage on this. you could make the argument, not
taking sides here that a better half than none. something that has bipartisan support could make them all look good because at least that package has -- polls better than this monster they're working on and they're not allowing that. i'm wondering where this is going. >> historically the democrats have been very effective at expanding government by doing it rerentlessly a pest at a time. they get half a loaf and come back a week legislative and ask for another half a loaf. the progressives have moved the goal posts so far that even a couple of trillion dollars in a span of a few months seems not like worth getting out of bed in the morning. they want a hail mary, this is where the democratic party is. joe biden ran on a proposal of $11 trillion in new spending last fall. he was seen as a centrist. warren wanted $40 trillion and sanders wanted 97 trillion in
new spending over ten years. we've moved into fantasy land monopoly money that between one or two trillion dollars at a time, which is the biggest expansion of government in half a century is now seen as peanuts compared to the bigger plans that they have. >> martha: you know, i look back at the criticism whether or not the president got, he's late to the party to do arm twisting if that's what he's doing at all, if we were to take joe manchin at his word. when he talked to the president, he said you have to do what you have to do. there was none of that l.b.j. oh, i don't think that would be a good idea, senator. i'm wondering, past presidents that stormed hard for what they believed in, ronald reagan with his tax cuts and working even the conservative democrats in congress the bowie -- bowevils.
clearly for ronald reagan early in his presidency, i don't see that here. there's a lot i know. chris wallace mentioned this. the president is meeting with key players at the white house. nothing beats going to the capitol to make your pitch. aggressively do so. >> it can help someone for a democrat for the president to make his pitch if he can win. if he goes there, doesn't convince people, it weakens him further. a lot of moderate democrats, they read their history. the ones that stood with bill clinton's push in 93 got slaughtered in 94. they lost the house. the democrats that went with barack obama in 2009 and 2010
got slaughtered and lot the host. so a lot of democrats are aware hitching yourself to a president with an approval rating under 50% won't save you when the president is trying to move you so far to the left. >> thanks very much, brian. you have a way with woods. i want to go to melissa. i want you to take a peek at the lower right portion looking at the dow soaring today. that surprised a lot of people. it has little to do with the drama in the capitol action much as people try to link that. had everything to do with promising news on vaccines, virus cases going down. a pill that could be added by merck to treat the vaccine. but right now it's not a worry for the markets. even if they come up, you know, zero. what do you think? >> well, the market has been worried, neil. we felt all week until today and
even this morning we were down before we rallied. so yes, a good close. thank god we had a good close. remember monday? that was a couple of days ago. we were down huge. we have fallen hard from off the highs, which was about -- >> neil: early in the week wasn't there fears that they wouldn't get the short term funding through, the government would be pushed to the brink? now we got some breathing room. they wrote off on something that keeps the lights on through october 18 and all bets are off. there was a lot of worry about that. i guess the reason why i bring that up, melissa, could there be similar confidence here that even though this is perilous now, they will come up with at least a vote on the infrastructure package itself, putting aside this bigger package. >> i think the market would prefer the 1.5 trillion even though that is an astronomical
number. i have read about this in the last week. raising the corporate tax rate to 21 to 26% and 37, 39, that is going to generate two trillion in revenue to cover this. it's going to fall short. as much as nancy pelosi is selling this to the american people that this will help the little guy, the rich people are going to pay for this, let me tell you something, neil, the rich people never turn out on the down side. it's the little guy that will end up paying for this. you're seeing it now with the cost of goods, services, gas, food. everything going up. >> neil: melissa, let's say they get something on this human infrastructure deal. it's not nearly as big. you could switch that around and say the tax increases to pay for it don't have to be as big. this is me taking a leap here. they don't know what they're
doing. how would investors respond to that? you think about it how investors react go a long way to you think about it, paying for it. >> well, remember, the market rallied and was very bullish in the trump tax cuts. we've had a very bullish period in the last five years. i know the market has rallied this year. that was the covid recovery. we're going into a period here, in to 2022 where the fed chair jerome powell says he expects inflation to continue and interest rates could go up in 2022. that's not good for anyone. we can't increase corporate tax rates too much. if they keep them the same or lower them less, i think companies would react positive to that. the problem for the country right now, neil, how many people voted this in. i heard you discuss this earlier with martha. is this really what people voted in who voted for joe biden? half the country voted for trump. people that voted for joe biden
thought he was a moderate. now we're moving to more socialists. it's hard to pull them back once they're out there. they carry on and last forever. i'm not so sure that this is the direction that the majority of the country wants to go. most of the people are not far right? most are not far left. why are they trying to push this agenda? >> neil: the argument for democrats pushing this is that it will give a sugar high to the economy. you know, very much trivializing and simplifying what they're saying. it's going to goose the economy at the right time in the mid terms. there's the inflation risk that you raise but it will do you know more good than bad. the timing is everything. by next year at this time, it will all be good. what do you say to that? >> no, i disagree with that. booth the economy?
we boosted the commit when we had the stimulus. companies had the ppp loans. they had two of them. we're on our fourth stimulus check now some people are getting. they have a child tax credit. people are getting 300 per child until the end of the year. what more stimulus do we need? eventually we have to pay this back. while it might have an upstick, it's going to come to a head. it's going to come to a head sooner than people realize. by soon, 6 to 12 months. you cannot continue to borrow without paying it back. if you borrow money on a credit card and you can make the minimum page, that's fine. when you have to borrow to make the minimum page, isn't that a problem? we're heading down dangerous roads. they're crazy numbers. you can see in two years we're talking about ten trillion. when does it end? i can't pay for it all. you can't. your kids can't pay for it. what will happen is the value of the dollar will go down.
all of these cryptocurrencies, guess what? people will start talking about other forms beside the dollar to go to. we don't want to devalue our currency. it's very important. >> neil: some have remarkably over decades as we've been piling this up, it's been operation ignore. so you know, eventually that stops. you don't know when that would be. thanks very much. melissa armo. we're showing you the capitol. those just tuning in, the president is on the capitol meeting were the democratic caucus and maybe avoiding what seems to be a serious split between moderates of the democrat party and progressives. they're at loggerheads here. chad, what can you tell us? >> the president really has some risk involved in this meeting. what happens if he comes up here, meets with the democratic caucus and they can't pass the
infrastructure bill later tonight or sometime over the weekend? what does that mean? there's some risk in that. you know, the other school of thought is he's wearing three hats. he's a referee, he's refereeing this disputes with the moderates and the liberals and a salesman and making his pitch here and also a closer. you bring the president up as our colleague jacqui heinrich said maybe to close the deal and typically this doesn't happen until the end. i've been getting mixed messages where they are. it's thought that you bring up the closer so to speak in the ninth inning. you're there. maybe you call the vote later tonight. the one thing that we know even if they're able to get this general frame work here, that means that the progressives have probably given in a lot. they wanted this vote in the united states senate on a frame work first and then hey would consider voting on the infrastructure package. it's not set up to work that way
right now. they're on the verge, they were yesterday and tonight, to just calling that vote on the infrastructure bill. if you have an agreement, what that does, it unlocks those votes on the progressive side that they'll say okay, we will support this because we've gotten enough assurances. that's a pretty big give by the liberal side. it's unclear how that will go. what i want to underscore is that we are probably days if not weeks away from having some sort of a general frame work where they move this reconciliation package to the floor. joe manchin came out yesterday. he was clear, 1.5 trillion. that was hits ceiling there. that took nancy pelosi aback a little bit. apparently she didn't know there was this document that was etch signed by joe manchin around chuck schumer, the democratic leader that said what that also told me that joe manchin was about getting a number.
now we know what the number was. we always thought, neil, that that top line number was going to coup down. there's all sorts of ways to fudge the math here. they do a program for three years versus five years. do a program for five years versus seven years. the costs once they get something from the congressional budget office, it starts to come down. keep in mind that the cbo does stat tick scoring. they look at the cost of the programs. that cuts two ways. what that means is you later get hurricanes and wars and pandemics and the costs go up. but also it's harder -- you have a finite period of time that the program is on and then there's a sun sets. sometimes it's easier to reauthorize those programs because it's harder to turn them off. they just go on. that's what the previous guest talked about. so if they can convince the liberals in the democratic caucus that they're going to get
a lot of those programs, that will be important to them and if they talk to the manchins and cinemas and to you it's a number, a big number, 1.5 trillion but that is your number and joe manchin said i brought them down. so the question in this meeting is which of the three hats does the president wear. salesman, referee, closer. a little of all three. >> neil: how about tony soprano where you want to force the issue. you're saying look, guys, this isn't about just me. this is about all of us. we fail on either or both measure, we're done. you're done, i'm done. we're all done. is there any -- you hear in the legendary stories about presidents meet and twist arms, lyndon johnson famously but certainly ronald reagan when he wanted to work on the wayward
democrats that were vulnerable in districts that reagan won to get their vote for his big tax package and i wasn't subtle about it. maybe different styles, i grant you but this president, is he that kind of guy? if you're trying to pull a rabbit out of your hat, now is the time to do it. being gentile is not a good idea. what do you think? >> usually the heavy pressure does not work. what works is the presence of the president. once the doors swing own and he walks inside and greeted by the democratic leadership and they walk him down to the caucus room, that pretty much usually closes the deal right there. again, you probably have to work out particulars. that's one part of this. the other thing i should talk about in this is that there's a real problem that they have on capitol hill with something operational that expired. the highway transportation programs that were shut off at
11:59. an e-mail wasn't sent over to the highway folks that these programs are dark. they're usually fine. so this bill, this infrastructure bill and this is why the agreement was partly to vote on the bill yesterday because that bill partly reauthorized those programs, maybe they just do that bill later tonight. the senate is also still in session. they're out recess subject to the call of the chair. they can come back and approve that tonight. that would accomplish two things, three things really. turn on the programs again. they don't go dark. number 2, you take the pressure off of getting a deal now. the third part and the down side of this is, you take the pressure off of doing a deal now. you need the pressure. the longer this sits out there, it's like house guests and fish. you don't want it to be around too long. a lot of people think that is pretty calcified, frankly. >> neil: i'm usually that guest. stating late, waying pay per view movies, raiding your
refrigerator. i don't know when is going on there but i wonder. >> the wine, the scotch. >> neil: no wine bottle would be safe. a very nice explanation. so we don't know what is going on behind the closed doors or how forceful is president is being. the presense of the commander-in-chief, the most powerful man in the world, the whole drill can influence people. that depends on what the president pitches and what he wants. we know he's flexible on this. what is he notice flexible on? what does he want to see? maybe he's relaying that to them right now. we don't flow. what we do no is democrats are in a pickle here because the two sides are far, far apart. now we have seen that before. gaps and bridges have been formed. but time is running out, isn't it? more after this. why give your family just ordinary eggs when they can enjoy the best? eggland's best. the only eggs with more fresh and delicious taste.
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we're told the president wrapped up his meeting with the democratic caucus. he's still not come out of the room. we're waiting to see if he will announce anything or if those in the room will say anything after this. . alisia: the program does feel really easy with all the app features. it's the reason i'm down 91 pounds. ww. weight loss that works, wellness that works. lose weight or your money back. hurry, offer ends october 4th. >> neil: meeting wrapped up. the president of the united states and nancy pelosi are speaking. let's listen to the president. >> it doesn't matter when. doesn't matter whether it's in six minutes, six days or six weeks. we're going to get it done.
>> [question inaudible] >> come on, man. you're not the party. 50/50. i got it. >> [question inaudible] >> neil: always wait to see if you hear anything else. must have been a response to when something will be cobbled together on this stuff. the president making clear that eventually it will. they will succeed at it. let's get the read from franchesca chambers. if i'm taking the president at this late word here, there's no rush. we'll get it done. by that i assume a vote on the
infrastructure only package, something acceptable for the right and left on the far bigger package. it's going to happen. it's might not happen immediately. what do you think? >> it certainly didn't sound like there was a deal when he came out. when he said it could be six days, could be more weeks from now. that does not sound like they arrived at a deal so now you have to wait to see what happens into next week. it's notable that the president went to capitol hill today. that is something that the white house has resisted doing. >> neil: congressman jayapal is now speaking. >> we need to get this reconciliation bill. it's going to be tough. we have to come down in our number and we have to do that work. we're going to get to work and see what we can get to. >> how much time is he giving you?
>> there's no timetable. >> is there a vote and is it this weekend or tonight? >> on this? no. >> he's okay with that strategy? >> the president said we're going to get both bills down. in order to to that, we have to get this agreement on the reconciliation. >> [question inaudible] >> i don't know. you have to ask them. [inaudible] >> i don't know. i don't know. we'll deal with a transportation extension. >> today? >> you expect that vote to happen this afternoon? >> neil: all right. that's a very interesting read from congresswoman jayapal who heads the progressive caucus. alexandria ocasio-cortez and others get more attention within that group, but they're not budging on a couple of things.
this is the first time i heard her bringing the 3.5 trillion number lower. you might recall earlier on, she said there's nothing to respond to with the 1.5 trillion figure this joe manchin mentioned. we don't know the details or she doesn't know the details. i rudely interrupt you. i apologize for that. seems clear that if we're to take her at her word that a vote is not imminent on either package. there's nothing to vote on. but there's one standing and waiting on the bipartisan infrastructure package itself. it's roughly $1 trillion. that doesn't seem immediate. where are we here? >> well, the white house has said that the president wasn't going to go to capitol hill until they felt that he needed to. we saw him do that today, neil. after listening to congress woman jayapal did make a difference. as you noted, she said something to the effect that we're going
to have to come down from that number, which is the first time we're hearing that. what will they come down to? is that 1.5 trillion, 2 or all the progressives satisfied with that? we heard bernie sanders say that they have already come down significantly to the 3.5. so what are they willing to do? that opens up a new set of questions. what gets cut. >> neil: as you said, the president made it very clear leaving capitol hill, doesn't matter if it's in six minutes, six days, six weeks, we'll get it done. but there's a lot of moving parts here including whole debt ceiling issue. we're bumping again even with this short term funding plan, october 18, the treasury secretary seems to indicate that that's when we run out of money. you and i know you can rob peter to pay paul and the government is very good finding money under
couch cushions. they have more cushions. i'm wondering how this times out. what is crucial here? >> these a separate issue. that funded the government through december. when it comes to implementing the policy, what we have to look forward to, at what point does the deadline affect when they can implement those things. they can lose seats in the house because people are not feeling the real effects of the president's agenda in the way that they had intended to. that's what matters here. from what i have heard, they can't afford to wait a few more weeks. >> neil: they can come up with figures that say this is a trillion less than what we
looked at. you and i know, you don't have to be a clever accountant to make the numbers show whatever you want them to show, to cut back the number of years for a program, to make it look like it fit as certain number when you know, popular programs that are included in this are not going to be, you know, removed by a congress, republican or democrat in most cases, so they stay. they have a way of staying. so whatever compromise that they come up to, you can make the argument, it's not worth the pencil details on paper. that's what is a concern here. what do you think? >> the conversation is how much of this is new spending, neil. what is the time frame. is it eight years, ten years, 15 years. over which they're spending this amount of money. that all makes -- all makes a difference. as you were saying, as you talked about these new programs
and how long they exist, there's programs as you said that are intended to sunset and then whenever congress gets to a deadline for that, they don't want to be the one to end that program like the expanded child tax credits. they don't want to be the ones. so some of that is an assumption as you get closer to the deadline in election years that lawmakers will vote to renew them that they don't want to be the ones that had to take a program away. >> neil: yeah. like me making the assumption that i'm going to lose ten pounds. i can stretch it out and renew it. it's fascinating. franchesca, thanks very much. the news is that hearing out of the progressive caucus that, you know, they're open to bringing that number down, the 3.5 trillion number down. whether that came as a result of the president meeting with the democratic caucus or with progressives or clearly members,
hard to say. but he might have gotten them to think about the long haul picture on all of this. to charlie gasparino now on where this might be going. the assumption in the financial community that it's not going to come to fruition or if it is, it's going to be late and watered down. the upside of that is that the tax hikes that will come with it are going to be late and watered down. what are you hear something. >> that's it. that's why the market was up today. the biggest problem that this country faces right now according to wall street and according to investors and according to the clients of the banks which are small businesses is inflation. they can't get people to work. they have to pay them more because of all of these programs. prices are going up. supply chain bottle necks. it's all -- really impacting
small businesses. this bill is superfluous to that. this bill has nothing to do with that. it's not going to make the inflation better, it's not going to make small businesses handle what is going on with worker shortages. it's so out there that wall street knows this and anything that waters this down both on the tax increases side, on the spending side, is a good thing. this thing is really interesting, neil. if there was ever a bill, a spending measure that was not needed, if the time was not called for it, it's this thing. the time is calling for getting people -- >> neil: you're talking about the bigger one. >> even the other one. >> neil: what do you think about the other one? that's the one that had 19 republican senators voting for it. i don't know how many in the house would do so. could be up to 10. what do you think of that? >> that could pass. that's not needed either. none of this is needed.
wall street knows that. this is spending more money and i think that's why when you see this sort of impasse and nuggeting done, weeks away, the street saying, not a bad idea, you know? we're not going to raise taxes any time soon. i will say this. everybody talk about joe manchin being the king maker. it's really krysten sinema from what i understand. based on my sources that are -- these wall street guys plugged in because they're trying to gauge what's going on here, she wants nothing to do with the 3.5 trillion thing. she said that to people. it's the 1.5 trillion that she probably would dollars to doughnuts is okay with. >> neil: she hasn't said. joe manchin has. it's always in the details. we don't know her priorities. right now she's in arizona. we don't know. >> she's channelling john mccain. john mccain from what i understand, the devils will be in the details, see what happens, john mccain, if you knew john mccain, he would vote
against both of these things. both of them off the bat. they don't -- they don't do what needs to be done going forward. the country is opening up, the vaccines are working. delta is going down. that's the best in this package. we're throwing money in expanding the welfare state and money we don't have, raising taxes at a time we shouldn't. we have problems with inflation. one of the problems is the governmenting is spending money to keep people at home. the banks know it, cane quain would know it and krysten sinema is hearing from her constituents. i don't think she will budge. one of the reasons that joe biden is having a hard time saying listen, we're going to -- you can't go to his caucus and say listen, vote for this or we're all going down the tubes. there's separation between them and a lot of moderates and him. they think he's going down the tubes. >> neil: let me ask you about this.
we're tight for time. i want to go on something here. a popular argument i hear among democrats pushing for a vote on the infrastructure package itself, the core one, is that if we don't, it will be another tarp deal that congress surprised people by not approving on the first run and led to an 800-point fall-off. and you know, they were -- that panicked them. they got back, regrouped. they got another package together, passed that one. the irony being as time wept on, thursdays more points fell in the dow. so it did little to alleviate that. that is what will happen. >> i don't think so. >> neil: if this fails. i don't think it's a proper analogy. what do you think? >> it's not. the banking system was about to collapse. that was a problem. if the banking system collapsed, you can't -- literally you cannot use your credit card to buy stuff. the economy collapse.
that's what the market was pricing in when they voted down tarp. this is something different. the economy is not going to collapse if this doesn't happen. the economy will be better off if this doesn't happen because people might start taking the jobs that are open and small businesses get people to do the stuff that they need to do. that is the difference. i think investors know that. so i don't see -- listen, we're at an impasse. an incredible impasse on both of these things. market is up 500 points for a reason. it's not because they think the things is going to pass tomorrow. it's because they don't like this bill. they know it's a waste of money. >> neil: i think other things came into play. optimism about this merck pill you can take for covid -- >> it's never one, this is a big one. >> neil: i hear you. okay. very good. good seeing you, my friend. thanks for wearing the tie. it does spruce up -- >> am i wearing a tie?
>> neil: you have to check? you have to check? >> i'm getting old. >> neil: tell me about it. >> i still forget to wear my underwear. >> neil: it's a family show. we'll leave our viewers with that thought. here's where we stand now ten minutes before the hour. there was an interesting development maybe where overinterpreting with the president walking out with the speaker of the house. this idea that the progressives are open to lowering the price of their so-called reconciliation, rescue bill, whatever they want the say. they don't like human infrastructure. they're opening to bringing that down. the first time that i remember hearing that. could be a significant development. could be as a result of meeting with the president. could be the idea of the democrats, moderates to progressives saying well, we got to get something done, which will it be? getting something done or nothing done. they're erring on the side of
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now. jacqui, what are you hearing? >> well, hearing a lot of disappointment from some democrats who are hoping for a vote on the bipartisan bill tonight. one democratic source described the president meeting there as having the highest of expectations, you know, it was being viewed by a lot of people as an indicator that things were potentially heading in the right direction in order to get that piece of his agenda passed tonight. but it didn't turn out that way. he did not make any push to have a vote tonight. he essentially linked the two pieces of legislation and said that there's not going to be an agreement until there is -- or there is not going to be a vote until there is a reconciliation agreement. they have got to get the reconciliation piece finalized. the two sides to settle on that, before they can move forward with the bipartisan vote. the president indicated that as much on his way out of the meeting. he told reporters i'm telling you we are going to get this done. reporters said when and his words were it doesn't matter when.
if it doesn't matter six minutes, six days or six weeks. that's pretty significant because you would think that you know, the president might feel like if there was a reason to go to the hill and then, you hold a vote that fails it would be appear embarrassment for him or his administration. so, that indicates that probably this infrastructure bill is not going to happen. ji pal said the same thing walking out the chair of the progressive caucus said we are going to have to come down on number to reach that agreement. we are probably going to do the surface transportation bill the temporary extension for that so, it looks like the president is in no rush. and trying to convey that that is not a problem. there was some thought that you know, he wouldn't go there unless he was going to be closing it out. and that, you know, if he were to go on the day that the vote was scheduled and that scheduled vote did not happen, that that would be some sort of black mark on his administration or on his ability to get things done. or congress' ability to get
things done for his agenda. and, it seemed like his presence there was really an intention to just make the case for the two pieces of legislation, saying that we got to get it done at some point. we are not in a rush. but, if we don't do something together, we are not going to get anything done at all. so let's all work this out. neil? >> neil: is he going to be at the white house this weekend? is he traveling? do you know? >> i wish we knew. we have been trying to get updates from them all day long. i mean, they have not been very revealing in this sort of state of affairs. i also know that it's a closed knit group of people who are really in the know on these things. they are keeping that information to a small, small group because it was, you know, very up in the air where things stood in congress, how many votes would potentially be there for a bipartisan vote. and if that would move forward tonight. so, we will see. we have been saying that all day and we are still waiting. >> neil: what's that line?
time will tell. time will tell. all right, thank you so much. jacqui, very, very much. we are getting word right now that u.s. supreme court justice sonia sotomayor refuses to block new york city vaccine mandate for public school employees. bryan llenas has more on this. brian, this is something that would really -- was bothering teachers who felt that the mandate went too far. what are you hearing now? >> well, look this was an emergency order. they were asking for. these 4 new york city teachers to come in and block this vaccine mandate that takes effect in exactly two minutes. justice sonia sotomayor from new york decided thee will not be blocking this vaccine mandate. now all 148,000 teachers and staff members that work for the new york city public school system, the largest in the country, must be vaccinated. those that are unvaccinated come
monday morning will be on paid leave. the mayor, bill de blasio, has said that he is not worried about staff shortages come monday. he says class will not be disrupted. they have enough substitutes though are vaccinated that can step right in and do this. but, again, these teachers that filed this lawsuit said that it was a violation of their 14th amendment rights to due process as well as they say it was a discriminatory policy because they believe that these teachers should be able to opt out of the vaccine and instead be able to take weekly covid tests just like other city employees. that was not offered to them specifically because they worked with children inside those classrooms. again, u.s. supreme court deciding it will not intervene in this case and they are now out of options this vaccine mandate will take effect come monday morning, neil? >> neil: they have to have at least one shot or their job is shot, right? >> that's right. and we now know that 93% of the teachers at least have at least 1%.
and 90% of the department of education employees in new york city have a shot. >> neil: got it bryan llenas, thank you very much. more than a few things developing this hour. we hope you join us tomorrow. 10:00 a.m. eastern time. you might have a better idea live weekend show about where we stand not only with teachers and those worried about mandatory vaccinations but what's happening on -- ♪ ♪ >> jesse: hello, everybody. i'm jesse watters along with dagen mcdowell, richard fowler, kennedy and dan bongino. 5:00 in new york city and this is "the five." >> jesse: president biden on capitol hill moments ago trying to savage $3.5 trillion socialist agenda. the president not sounding too confident after stepping out of the meeting. >> i'm tell you we're going to get this done. [shouting] >> it doesn't matter
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