the jury will have to decide if this is a political dirty trick or if it's something more sinister, something illegal. this trial will kickoff tomorrow with opening arguments. it's expected to last two weeks, martha >> martha: we'll be watching closely. thanks, david, very much. thank you nor being with us today for "the story" on this monday. have a great week. the story goes on. see you tomorrow. >> you're looking live at buffalo, new york. officials will hold a news conference as the investigation continueses into the topp supermarket over the weekend that left ten people did. the 18-year-old suspect planned to continue his shooting rampage in a black neighborhood. i'm charles payne in for neil cavuto. we're going to take you to that news conference as soon as it begins. first to alexis mcadams who is in buffalo with the latest. alexis? >> charles, right now it's an

active and on going investigation in buffalo. waiting to get new information that is supposedly should have new information about the gunman and possibly how long he was here in buffalo casing this area. officials say he was inside the store and possibly talked to employees. you can still see the crime scene tape here. you can see this is new video. the fbi is here hahn scene trying to canvas the area. they're taking pictures and marking several bullet holes that were left in the building where the gunman opened fire in what is called a racially motivated hate crime. out of the 13 people shot here in buffalo at the supermarket, 11 are black. it have aers believe the gunman's rampage was not going to end there. he was planning to continue shooting people in the neighborhood that he apparently chose because it has the largest black population in buffalo. they believe he mapped it out

one day before the shooting. listen. >> the hatred towards blacks, jewish and immigrants was his motive for this. if the buffalo police officers that engaged him didn't stop him, he was going to continue down the street and go over some target areas that i don't want to speak about to get anyone nervous. but he was going to continue. >> he had at least a few more guns in his car according to police. we're also learning more about those that lost their lives here. they range in age from 13 to 36. buffalo police officer aaron steltzer was killed working security at the store while trying to stop the gunman. back out here live, you can see the crime scene tape behind me. the sheriff says he will be at the press conference and will have the latest details on the

gunman. he's in solitary confinement and his parents have not tried to contact him or visit him. the sheriff says he's very calm for committing such a heinous act. >> i want to go to ted williams now. former d.c. detective. just your thoughts on this whole episode. >> charles i was on air this weekendkering this heinous crime taking place there in buffalo. pure evil. we need to ask ourselves, what makes a 18-year-old hate a group of people, race of people so that he will go and get a gun, come into the community and kill these people? kill an 86-year-old woman who had just come from visiting her husband at a nursing home? by the way, i've been in that

topp store in that neighborhood. and to be gunned down this way is pure hatred, pure evil. there has to be a complete investigation here, charles. we need to know how a person who may have some mental illness was able to get a gun? i can tell you, charles, when we talk about mental illness and we talk about this person gunning down ten people and murdering ten people or if the question is from a little perspective, when he gunned these people down, did he know the difference from right and wrong? not that just he was just mentally ill. when we think about this brave police officer, a police officer who had retired from the police force there in buffalo, officer salter who was just working there, who tried to take this man down.

because of the armor that he had on, he wound up killing this officer also. pure evil, charles. >> ted, when these things happen, we -- too often we discover that the person was in the interest of law enforcement. this particular suspect, the police came to visit him when he was in high school. how do we -- we've had this discussion before. is there a way to follow up when someone? is there way to flag someone when they show the dangerous tendencies, the fantasies of hurting other people, murder suicide? when the new york state police visit your home, should there be a follow-through? >> absolutely there should be. when a person exhibit s this

kind of behavior, they need to put it out there somewhere in the law enforcement community that this person exists and his tendencies. it's my understanding, that yes, that in high school, this 18-year-old threatened another high school students and that for 1 1/2 days he may have had some mental treatment. but guess what, charles? he was permitted to go and buy a gun? so they're going to have to check that gun dealer to see under what circumstances and what did he know when he sold that gun or guns, should we say. because these guns from what we've been told were legally purchased by the this 18-year-old. >> ted, there was a 180-page manifesto, social media

postings. should the family and friends be questioned? at what point is there any sort of liability when you know someone speaks like this over and over again, when they have written a manifesto, indicates a violent streak or urges violence against other people. any time when people that know these things are liable that they should speak up? i know it's tough when it's a family member. certainly feels like so many of them could have been stopped if a family member said something. >> absolutely right again, charles. when you see something, you have to say something. sometimes the most difficult thing is for a family member to face the fact that they have another family member who has some forms of mental illness. but all-mentally ill people don't act this way. so if there was -- >> charles: i have to cut you off here.

here's the presser. >> i wanted to thank the members of the media for joining us. we'll have an extended press briefing this afternoon. as we begin this new week, our community continues to grieve

and heal. we are a strong community. we are rallying around one another and we will continue to move forward as a strong city of buffalo, western new york region. late today we have been made aware of social media posts going around with possible threats. i want to be clear, buffalo police and our partnering law enforcement agencies standing here are investigating the social media posts and will prosecute if necessary. i want to emphasize arrests have already been made and you'll be hearing more about that. i'm going to turn things over to joseph gramaglia. >> thank you. this is a very long investigation and will continue to be. the scene is still being

processed, search warrants have been obtained and executed. there's a lot of digital footprint, electronics that we'll have to go through. that process is ongoing. information has come as a result of some of this information that the individual was here a few months ago in early march. so as i said, there's a lot of material to go through. so we have confirmed that it appears that individual was here back a couple months ago in early march. so at this point, like i said, a lengthy investigation. things will change. information will change as we become aware of that. that's about all i have on the investigation at this point. >> thank you. we'll now hear from u.s. attorney for the western direct, trinity ross. >> the federal investigation is continuing. we're working again jointly be our state and local law enforcement partners regarding

the threating going around on the internet. we have a point of contact person that deals with those threats. with very several prosecutors dealing with the investigation, the crime that took place on saturday. the u.s. attorney's office is actively engaged and we will continue to be and continue to work with law enforcement officers and the district attorney's office as necessary. >> we will now hear from erie county district attorney, john flynn. >> so i want to touch on a couple of topics right here this afternoon. i'll piggyback on what the mayor said at the end here. first of all, those of you that are local reporters know my m.o. and how i proceed with talking about investigations and matters during the course of a legal

process. some of you from out of town, let me explain how i work. once an arraignment has happened, i pretty much shut down. because the legal proceeding had started, and i just do not talk during the course of the legal proceeding. in this matter right here, obviously this is a very high profile case. a lot of information out there. i made an exception for today. so today, monday, being the first business day since saturday, i've done a number of interviews. i'm here standing right now in front of you. but after today is over, i am done. after today is over, the next proceeding that will take place

will be the felony hearing. once the felony hearing is over on thursday, the matter is going to go for lack of a better phrase into grand jury posture. once it goes in a grand jury posture, the envelope of secrecy will cover everything. we're pretty much going to shut down all investigative, all prosecution information. so that is kind of a game plan going forward. i can tell you right now that there has been a new development with regard to the prosecution. as all of you know saturday night at the arraignment, the defense attorney made a request for a forensic examination.

that request was to the judge that two medical doctors, look at my client and evaluate him to determine whether or not we can proceed. less than 24 hours later, the defense attorney withdrew that request. that forensic examination has been withdrawn. i don't see the need to ask for it myself, is i'm not going to ask for it. the judge has the opportunity on his own to order the investigation, a forensic. he did not feel the need to do that. so the mental health forensic part of this has now become a moot point. it's now off the table. so we are proceeding now to thursday's felony hearing. one of two things will happen at

that felony hearing. the defendant will waive that felony hearing or the felony hearing will happen thursday and we'll go forward. so again, just kind of a -- i'm trying to let everyone know in advance. once that felony hearing happens thursday, the grand jury investigation is going to begin and i will not be able to talk more about anything having to do with this investigation until there has been an indictment on this matter. again, for those of you out of town, my m.o. is after an indictment, there will be an arraignment on the indictment and i will do a press conference on the arraignment, on the indictment. but then -- once i do a briefing

on the arraignment on the indictment, i again shut down again until trial. so just kind of want to let everybody from out of town know how i operate. i've operated that way 5 1/2 years. i will continue to operate that way even though it's a high profile case. the second thing i want to say is that i understand that there is a court of public opinion out there. i understand that there's the narrative out there that there's so much evidence is, it's overwhelming. this guy is guilty. this guy did it et cetera, et cetera. i understand that opinion. i understand emotions are high.

i understand the rawness of this matter. however, i do not operate in the court of public opinion. i operate in a court of law. this defendant is innocent until proven guilty. let me repeat that. he's innocent until proven guilty. he's only been charged right now with one charge. that is it. it's an accusation. it's an allegation. that's all it is. as a prosecutor, i have three communities that i have to protect their rights. i have to protect the rights of the public, the victims and the defendant. i have to ensure that the defendant has a fair trial here in buffalo, new york.

that is my job, to ensure a fair and impartial trial. i'm going to do everything i can to make sure that that happens. the last thing i want to talk about, there's a lot of chatter out there. there is a lot of threats out there that i'm hearing about and that we're hearing about in law enforcement. one of those threats happened yesterday. 52-year-old man from buffalo yesterday allegedly -- again a ledgedly -- called up a pizzeria and made threatening comments to the employee referencing what happened at tops. 45 minutes later, allegedly, that same individual called up a

brewery in downtown buffalo and made similar threatening comments again alluding to what happened at tops. the pizzeria and the brewery called bpd. as usual, bpd found out who this guy was, arrested him last night. we held him last night because it was a d felony and under the new york state bail laws, we can hold someone overfight for a d felony, which we did. we held him overnight and we arraigned him this morning on a d felony making a terrorist threat. facing up to seven years in jail. >> charles: we're hearing from officials in buffalo, the major, the u.s. attorney general. that's the eerie county district attorney. i want to bring back ted

williams. ted, a few things struck me. i want your thoughts. first, the mayor was speaking, he talked about the social media posts, the threats, they're investigating them. erie county d.a. john flynn just alluded to them of the copycats in those sort of cases. how do we guard -- how does society guard against the potential for copy cats in the near term? >> charles, we have to be vigilant when it comes to copycats. over the weekend here in laguna woods, california, we had a shotting at a church. we don't know if there's a nexus, we don't knee if this individual at the laguna woods, california church was a copycat. but there's a lot of mentally ill people out there. a lot of people out there unfortunately that will try to take advantage of a situation

like this. all law enforcement can do is be vigilant. all citizens can do is be vigilant also. if they have information that they can turn over to law enforcement authorities, they should do so. >> charles: ted, the d.a. mentioned there was a new development where the defense initially requested a forensic exam. i guess in an attempt to perhaps declare whether or not the suspect is mentally -- if he's mentally fit to be held for responsible for these things. then they dropped the request. you mentioned early on when we initially spoke during the show about his mental capacity at the time. if the judge doesn't bring this back up, will that not be a factor from here on out? >> if the judge doesn't bring it up, it may not be a factor. i can tell you either the judge or his attorneys are going to

re-visit the question of mental illness. somewhere along the line, i can tell you that there will be a mental evaluation of this individual. >> charles: ted, we have to leave it there. folks, more right after this. a'? the answers lie beyond the roads we know. we recognize that energy demand is growing, and the world needs lower carbon solutions to keep up. at chevron, we're working to find new ways forward, through investments and partnerships in innovative solutions. like renewable natural gas from cow waste, hydrogen-fueled transportation, and carbon capture. we may not know just what lies ahead, but it's only human... to search for it. (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is different than other money managers. but it's only human... (other money manager) different how? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our client's portfolios for their long-term goals.

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>> charles: biden versus bezos. jeff bezos squaring off with president biden over inflation. edward lawrence has the latest from the white house. edward? >> charles, a tweet from the president started criticism. sound familiar? this time president joe biden tweeting out if you want to lower inflation, make sure the wealthiest corporations pay their fair share. that sparked a stern response from jeff bezos. bezos tweeted back and prompted andrew bates to say why the richest oppose to helping the med class. biden saiding it's surprising that this tweet comes after the president met with labor organizers. so bezos said this is about my

recent tweets. they want to muddy the topic. they know the inflation hurts the medians the most. remember the administration tried their best to add another 3.5 trillion to federal spending but they failed. so the new white house press subpoena karine jean-pierre weighed in 20 minutes ago. listen. >> it's not a huge surprise that one of the richest is fighting for this. we're talking about lowering inflation. >> republicans say this is exactly what is wrong with the president's economic policies. >> they're not sensitive to concerns of every day americans. until we do that, i fear the situation will get worse, in

particular until they change their energy policy, which is stifling domestic production. we're going to be in for a rough ride. >> there's no change of course from the white house on any of those economic policies. charles? >> charles: thanks, edward. so is bezos right? we have our panel here. douglas, your thoughts. >> well, i think this is more politics than real. if this was really an anti inflation policy, they would recognize over the long-term that it's counter productive. they have said repeatedly to grow the economy side. so it's not a real anti-inflation policy. the litmus test is if you believe this was the best way to control demand, when you needed

stimulus, you'd cut corporate rates. they didn't do it. they spend $1.9 trillion and we got the inflation. this is not about inflation, this is throwing out policy again. >> charles: for the most part, jeff bezos is friendly to the administration. but they're not alone. others have been critical that you worked with under the obama administration. really critical of these policies. >> you know, charles, i was so thrilled to join you on this topic because jeff bezos accusing someone of misdirection is rich. this is a guy who is a tech guy, who took a picture of his own genitalia that got out and he blamed it on the saudis. this is also a guy that increased minimum wage and cut profit sharing. that is serious. we don't create wealth without profit sharing. so there's needs to be a conversation about how amazon is adding to the middle class and i

think he's going to come under more fire -- >> charles: what about the central topic -- what about the central market question here? the inflation question. the administration efforts -- >> this is -- >> charles: that many say backfired. that 1.9 trillion was unnegligence and now we're paying a serious price for it with this wage price spiral that is devastating most americans. >> there's been so many politicians that have spent and spent without a plan to actually grow the amount of money that we're spending from. is that has happened time and time again. here's a guy that should have unique incite on how we change the situation on inflation. he's literally opened up our american consumers to buying direct from chinese companies through amazon. he should have a unique vantage point on the supply chain issues we're dealing with. it's fair for the administration to call him out on what he's

done to wreck our small businesses in towns like mine because it's about time that amazon pay its fair share. >> charles: that is a different topic. i'll say i don't know how many businesses have 1.1 million employees. they pay a wage that is far above minimum wage. people that i know work there are thrilled to have the job. douglas, back to you on this central question. listen, again, it's economic 101. it's okay. if you thought it was going to work and didn't work. but what jeff bezos says the administration continues to go down this path. if it wasn't for senator manchin, we would be in a hell of a lot of trouble as a nation right now. >> we see attempts to change the story on where the inflation came from. they don't have applausable story. they change every day. this is the latest. mr. bezos said it's great to have a conversation on this. the inflation problem came from the overstimulus to way to see that is to recognize one of the

most pressing is shelter, rents and mortgages and the alike. there's houses in america. there's no getting things in from china. the inflation came from the excessive stimulus. now it has to be dealt with by the federal reserve. they did this. >> charles: let's bring in johanna for the last word. you also have tissue of gasoline. we have a ton of crude oil understand our feet. we now how to get to it. the administration won't let us. that's another self-inflicted wound that everybody is paying a price for. what do you think, johanna? >> we have actually seen the biden administration open up drilling leases and we have to make our -- our gas has to be more affordable. the overall question of inflation, brett bear was asking steve mnuchin, aren't we going to see mass inflation because we're seeing spending and spending? time and time again the politicians are spending and spending without a solution. it's no surprise that we have

inflation. i wish we would talk about solutions. jeff bezos could come and talk about solutions. >> charles: i think that's what the he's trying to do. thanks. appreciate it. voters dealing with hot inflation as the mid-terms heat up including key senate and house contests in north carolina tomorrow. connell mcshane was just down in north carolina talking the farmers about what is going on down there. he joins us here. >> not only is jeff bezos concerned about inflation. talk to any business owners including farmers in north carolina, it's issue number 1. this guy, tommy porter, a farmer in north carolina. he has cows, chickens and pigs. it's amazing the price hikes that he's dealing with. out fertilizer as an example. take a listen. >> fertilizer is up three to four times a year ago. >> that's crazy.

three to four times. >> 275 gallon at the time of round-up a weed killer a year ago, $1,400. now over $10,000. everything has gone out of site. fertilizer, three to four times what it was a year ago. we have no where to pass that cost on. farmers -- >> that's what people miss when they talk about to farmers. while you're paying more but you're charges more. you can pass that along. it's not that simple. >> it's not that case. farmers are price takers, we're not price makers. the price of cattle is no better than a year ago. i have three to four times the cost and not receiving more for them. it's not sustainable. >> one thing he's tied into a number of contracts. he can't raise the prices the way he might like to because of all of these other costs going up. he and other formers are worried about the future.

they did transition into politics in their argument saying no doubt it will affect the way they think in the fall. you can see why republicans are confident in a state like north carolina. you get people like this, they're more likely to vote for the republican party. >> charles: you need to connect the dots on the fertilizer. the bit component is natural gas. that is something that we have an abundance. years ago, oil companies were burning it's off. they didn't know. now it's through the roof. isn't there something that we can do about it? >> we had a big conversation generally speaking with tommy about energy independence. when i asked him what can we do. that was his first thing. we shouldn't have cut off keystone and now we're to dependents on others for oil and other commodities. he thought energy independence is one thing where the current policies the last couple years have made this situation worse

and he would like to see change. >> charles: as far as competition, the biden administration keeps talking about how few meat producers there are and other things. are they confident the farmers, that if the government got involved or would be more competition or rather them back up? >> the one place where competition is hurting in some cases, which is interesting. another farmer that they have real problems with labor costs. so competition from countries likes mexico where you pay people less than $10 a day and they have to pay $15 and $15 an hour. a lot of large multinational companies that are doing business over there that are undercutting them on price. that was the other side. >> charles: thanks, connell. border surge in full swing as officials wait to see if the federal judge will stop the white house from lifting title 42. bill melugin is in eagle pass. the clock is ticking.

bill? >> charles, certainly is. today in eagle pass, it's been one of the most active days we've seen in quite some time. we've had group after group crossing illegally including single biggest group we have ever seen here in eagle pass. that video and more coming up after the break. i recommend nature made vitamins because i trust their quality. they were the first to be verified by usp... ...an independent organization that sets strict quality and purity standards. nature made. the number one pharmacist recommended

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your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire >> if title 42 goes away, mayor, what does it mean for you and your town, your area? >> use all the tools that you have, all the tools in the tool box. that's all we had, title 42, to use it as a tool, let's use it. let's not remove it just so we can put a hold or probably try to slow down the influx of immigration coming in. >> charles: that is a border democrat telling the white house to keep title 42 in place. it goes away in seven days unless there's a ruling

otherwise. to bill melugin who is live in eagle pass with the latest. bill? >> charles, good afternoon to you. the illegal crossings here in eagle pass have been going on all day long. you can see behind me. this is our fox drone. we had another group cross moments ago in eagle pass, several dozen in size. the dhs said the last 24 hours here in del rio, there's been more than 1,200 illegal crossings. we had been witnessing this sort of thing all day long and this group is small compared to what we saw earlier. take a look at this video we shot three or four hours ago. this is a massive group of well over 200 illegal immigrants crossing in the same spot. most of these my grantses from venezuela. this is the sixth day in the row that they have crossed around 11:00 a.m. local time. a cartel scout will be on if other side of the river.

minutes later, the large groups will come. border patrol says they're getting hammered by the big groups. they had three in a ten-hour span over the weekend. a few hours before that, in the earlier morning hours, we had this group crossing a again in the same spot. several dozen. columbians, venezuelans and peruvians in fronts of an overwhelmed border patrol. the agent said since october 1, they've had 260,000 illegal crossings. the nuns right now are up over 147% over the same time last year. take a look at there video here in eagle pass, this is private property where they cross into. these illegals are climbing over a fence. it's got barbed wire on the top of it and in front of the texas national guard. there's razor wire laid out. the migrants hopped this fence.

it's a pecan orchard with the property owner that watches this half the time. she's not very happy about it. last thing we would like to show you, border patrol has started building this brand new tent city compound here in eagle pass ahead of the repeal of title 42. we're told this is supposed to expand holding capacity by 500 people or so as well as speed up processing. i'm told construction will finish before title 42 drops. multiple sources say they have concerns about this because they're pelling manpower from across del rio to staff this facility and they have concerns when title 42 drops, that means they have less agents in the field on patrol because they will be doing more paperwork and processing. charles, back out here live. we're a week out from title 42 dropping. the situation down here already exploding and dhs says you can count on it getting worse if title 42 does drop.

now back to you. >> bill, thank you very much. let's get the read on this from lieutenant chris oliveras from the texas department of public safety. chris, the clock is ticking. i'm intrigued be i the tent city to hold 500 people from. what i've read, there's 1.8 million expulsions since title 42 went into operations. doesn't seem like that's enough space to handle the deluge expected. >> good afternoon, charles. what you're seeing there what bill melugin just reported on that, what they're doing, they're depleting federal resources. now you have border patrol agents and staff. all it will mean it will encourage the immigrants to continue to come across in to the united states. so all the video taking place there, the vast amount of people

coming across, that's less than a mile of an area what we're focusing on as a state is working with our international partners in mexico so that they can take a more aggressive surge of resources and contain the groups that are coming across the border on the mexican side. >> charles: how confident are you that that will happen? >> charles, ever since governor abbott initiated those agreements with the governor of mexico and we started the enhanced safety vehicle inspections, we saw what took place at the port of entry. it forced mexico to surge resources. obviously we know it's not working or they don't have the resources in place. with our state leadership with our agency, having specific conversations with mexican authorities and we're going to have binational operations without the southern border in del rio, laredo to focus on

these ports of entry. >> charles: so alejandro mayorkas was talking about how the administration is going to deal with this. take a listen, chris. >> back in september of last year we started to plan and prepare for the eventual end of this cdc's use of title 42. that is in fact what we have done. i'm going to go down to mcallen, texas tomorrow. it's my ninth or tenth visit to the border and explain to local officials exactly what our plans and preparations involve. >> charles: chris, first off, you're going to be seeing secretary mayorkas. what do you want to hear from him? >> well, charles, we've been hearing the conversations, everything when this took place about having a plan in place. well, it's one thing to have a plan on paper. you have to take an aggressive

stance. take proactive measures and focus on the issues. that's more concern. last year we had 17,000 surge the border at once. because what we've done as a state by providing the resources with the national guard, we've been able to deter any other caravans from making their way to the border, a question i would have and should be answered, when are you going to put this plan in place and take a stance, more aggressive stance in securing the border, protecting the smaller communities, providing resources to board to focus on what they're good at. securing the border, going after drug smugglers. as we continue going forward, have the conversations with

mexico. >> charles: do you plan to see secretary mayorkas tomorrow? >> i won't be in the valley. i'm in west texas right now. i'm here covering other elements taking place here. a different element here in west texas as far as border security. i'm curious to see what comes out of that conversation. >> charles: you and a lot of democrats that are elected officials down there. everyone is concerned. thanks, chris. >> appreciate it, charles. >> charles: so a twitter deal on hold. hold on a minute. elon musk just said something that might change things up again. justice clarence thomas tearing into the supreme court look and his sit down with john yu, attorney. so does he have any idea who the leaker might be? john yu is back with us again today. >> if someone said that one line of one opinion would be leaked by anyone and you would say oh,

that's impossible. no one would ever do that.

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>> did he just tell everyone that the twitter deal is far from over? the fox business with more.

>> this is coming as they are investigating if they do best 5% of the platform users. he says it could be at least 20% of monetize users and you're right that elon musk just affirm that what the market was speculating that negotiating a lower price for twitter is not out of the question. so if you look at where twitter closed is not much of a surprise down a present. does nearly $17 below the share price offer and 15 billion below that of the deal value and experts are a little bullish deal. >> i think it will go at a lower price now that he realizes that a lot of these twitter people are really bots. twitter has been like the arbiter of who is allowed to say what. and what are they thinking? >> all of this is a tweet warp brewing between elon musk and the ceo of twitter willing to provide transparency about the percentage of bots on the platform.

claiming that the company shared the bot estimates did a week ago and arguing that his external audit is impossible. so how do advertisers know that they're getting their money because it's fundamental for the health of twitter. charles is this becomes more adversarial there wondering if you will walk to the face of $1 billion breakup fee and potentially billions of lawsuits. the stock price shows how much leverage he has at this point. >> kelly thank you very much. now switching gears is a hunt for the supreme court leaker continues just as claire's comments is now warning has destroyed trust at the high court. >> if someone said that one line of one opinion would be leaked by anyone and you would say oh that's impossible. no one would ever do that there is such a belief in the rule of law and belief in the court and

what we were doing. that was verboten it was beyond anyone's understanding or at least imagination. that someone would do that and look where we are. we are now that trust that belief belief is gone forever. >> he was the one interviewing justice thomas when he made those comments and john joins me now. john and beyond anyone's imagination is what stuck with me and just something it seemed impossible and yet it happened. >> the supreme court has been around for 230 years and has decided many of the most important cases in our history. at this of the first time in opinion has ever leaked from the supreme court. so yes the justice is quite clear in that interview and i think everyone of the court that works there is that this is a direct attack on the independence and integrity of

the supreme court unlike any that's ever happened before. >> how does justice thomas feel about the notion that it's actually been cheered up by a portion of the media that said it was worth the leak and a lot of people look that over. >> it was my honor to interview the justice that they and i think he couldn't of been more clearer. in order to do his job and to protect all of our individual rights is to make sure that the constitution works properly. it has to be a legal institution and if you have leaks it kind of like congress or the president it can't do its job anymore. anyone who wants to win. they shouldn't want to leak it because it's sacrificing the authority of the supreme court in the long run as a legal institution that protects our constitution rights not just another political body. >> where were justice thomas or do you know where we now with respect of finding the leaker? >> he didn't say anything about

that as someone i've served in all three branches of government, i've seen leaks, i've been leaked against and i very little faith that the leak will be caught. most leaks there never really the leakers very rarely caught. i don't think that that is to be the solution for the court to reveal that, trust that he's saying that's imperative for the functioning of the supreme court. >> it is heartbreaking because it feels like it could've happened by may be one his colleagues. >> i hope that that is not the case i hope that justice thomas believes that i can easily see it being one of the law clerks. those might be the kind of people would say roe v. wade is so important to me and them i think it's so important to the country that is worth sacrificing the long-term health of the institution of the supreme court. but i think anyone with a long-term view, anyone who

believes in the law and order in our country that the law and the constitution are different than just politics. it's good to be saddened by this and hope that the leak will be uncovered. >> has this leak though galvanized the justice system. as a critical part of our democratic republic has a galvanized them in their roles? >> i think from the clip that you played charles just how angry, he feels regret i think that things have come to this and i think that he said pretty clearly even chief justice roberts said pretty clearly that the court is going to continue on with its mission. there can he do their best to try to do their job, but of course this is throwing the court onto the bonfire of her politics right now and into the midterm elections the issue so it can be hard for anyone to normally do their job with that kind of pressure and scrutiny that they're coming under. i hope it doesn't change the

outcome of how the justices originally voted because i will weaken the court in this institution. >> trying to intimidate any court particularly the supreme court is very scary. john great work, congratulations. that'll do it for me folks make sure you cost me on fox business making money particularly in this market environment things are pretty topsy-turvy but i got your back. in the meantime here comes "the five." ♪ ♪ >> dana: it's 5:00 in new york city and this is "the five." ♪ ♪ >> dana: president joe biden to batten down the hatches because is it about to get rough. the president is getting rocked by more brutal poll numbers. try to get into campaign mode and try to avoid making the midterms about his job performance but time to be running out