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tv   Nancy Grace  HLN  July 7, 2009 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT

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breaking news tonight. in the hours surrounding the memorial for music icon michael jackson, the mystery surrounding his sudden death only intensifying. as 20,000 people packed the staples center arena l.a. with millions around the world looking on. the questions mount regarding jackson's sudden death. his $500 million empire, and, more important, custody of the star's three little children. jackson's 14 karat gold bedecked casket draped with red flowers on display in full view of his 11-year-old little girl, paris
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katherine, as she gives a heart-wrenching tribute to her father. but just a few miles away, legal eagles and homicide investigators working around the investigators working around the clock. -- captions by vitac -- on behalf of my family, myself, i would like to thank everyone for coming out. ♪ we are going to see the king >> ever since i was born born -- daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. ♪ smile though your heart is aching ♪
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♪ smile even though it's breaking ♪ >> and i just want to say i love him so much. ♪ smile though your heart is aching ♪ ♪ smile even though it's breaking ♪ ♪ we are going to see the king hallelujah hallelujah ♪ ♪ we're going to see the king lord ♪ >> ♪ in love ♪ and you ♪ i treat you bad ♪ and wrong my dear
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♪ and since, since you've been away ♪ ♪ don't you know i sit around with my head hanging down ♪ ♪ and i wonder ♪ who's loving you ♪ ♪ oh yeah ♪ who's loving you good evening. i want to thank you for being with us. as 20,000 people packed the staples center arena l.a. with millions around the world looking on. the questions mount. regarding jackson's sudden death. his $500 million empire.
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and, most important, the custody of the star's three little children. ♪ hey ♪ ♪ >> michael jackson's -- >> the american music -- >> michael jackson! >> -- best-selling american -- >> this award is give to michael jackson. >> again, i say thank you, thanks to god. in the past, i've gone from "where is he" to "here he is again." >> i love you, michael. >> but i must confess, it feels good to be thought of as a person, not as a personality. ♪ ow >> fame, fortune, they're all illusions.
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♪ ♪ who's bad who's bad who's bad ♪ ♪ oh ♪ ow ♪ oh ♪ ♪ i'm bad ♪ i'm bad ♪ really really bad ♪ you know i'm bad ♪ i'm bad ♪ you know it ♪ really really bad ♪ you know i'm bad ♪ i'm bad ♪ you know it ♪ really really bad ♪ you know ♪ you know ♪ you know ♪ really really bad ♪ and the whole world has to answer right now just to tell you once again ♪ ♪ who's bad >> a star-studded a-list memorial service went down today. 20,000 people pack the staples center arena there in l.a. but one moment stood out to everyone. when michael jackson's
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11-year-old little girl, paris, said good-bye to her father. in front of thousands. take a listen. >> ever since i was born, daddy could be the best father you could ever imagine. and i just want to say i love him. so much. >> so many, in fact, most adults cannot gather their wilts about them at a time like this. the loss of a loved one, much less a parent. but the bravery this little 11-year-old girl showed at her father's memorial today makes all of us here at "the nancy
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grace show" more dedicated in pursuing justice for these three children. what will become of them? as lawyers and analysts, vultures, start circling the jackson camp. what will become of his three children? first, to staples center arena for the very latest about what happened today. to paul vercammon, what happened? >> reporter: the los angeles police department and aeg and everyone involved with this memorial service is celebrating tonight. the reason being is it's considered a tasteful service, it was not over the top in any way. there was no open casket. there was nothing ostentatious about it. no over the top numbers. they're even sort of careful about who they did and did not let sing, nancy. inside today was this very reference chul moment. outside, talking to the fans, everyone was well behaved. people were extremely polite. they were all touched by a number of things, including
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paris' word. the police report no arrests. only 1,000 people gathered on the outskirts of this sort of walled-off city and tried to get in. so it's a thumb's up all the way around for the police, the fire department and others who helped put on this event. in very short time, by the way, and pull it off without a hitch, nancy. >> this as we learned michael jackson's body still being kept in a secret location. to nat tisha lance, our producer, there also at the staples center, where is he? >> that's the -- that's the question that everybody wants to know, nancy. he came from forest lawn earlier today, for his body to be here for the memorial. and then after that, he went to an undisclosed location. they're not telling us where he is. there are reports out there that he was not returned to forest lawn. so the family's keeping this under wraps for now. >> to mike walker, senior editor with "the national enquirer." he was there at the memorial service today. he's joining us from l.a. right
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now. as always, mike walker, it's a pleasure to have you with us. what happened today? and where is jackson's body? also, how will they inter it? >> well, first thing is that as your reporter said, it was a singular service in that it was so -- i expected it to be more over the top a little bit, a little bit more like a performance, performers getting out there and sing and dancing and they did. but there was the feeling of church. people were signifying and yelling out responses -- not yelling, but saying things. yes, yes, you said it brother -- that kind of thing. and it was almost like a church service. and it was tasteful. it was beautifully done. of course, the most arresting moment -- there were two for me. the little girl. to see that little girl, with all the questions about parentage, is she michael's biological child. you went with her and you went -- most people i talked to her, you went, well, no, but so what? as you said what a touching moment. how much she loved her father. how that came across.
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but the other singular moment was when i left, i got up, and i thought of that awful trough take we face coming in. and i thought, well, i'll just get out quickly from micro and jump into the aisle and get going because it's going to get jammed. there was nobody in front me so i quickly made my to the top thinking oh this is good. i turned around, expecting to see a bunch of people. i stepped back into the auditorium. there was that crowd of 20,000 people, sitting, stock still, almost no one had moved out of their seat. there were no light, no music, nothing going on, and they were just sitting there transfixed. all you would hear was little cries of people saying things like, we love you, michael. michael, we miss you. it was exceptionally moving. >> mike walker what is going to happen to those three children? >> there's going to be a battle, of course. but i'll tell you how i think this is going to end up. i think those children are going to end up with mrs. jackson.
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i just really do believe that. i don't believe debbie rowe, just from everything we sense -- there are people who are telling her to come forward and to fight. but, remember, if it is true that debbie rowe wants money out of this situation, and that's -- you know -- a fair charge, looking at past history, there's money. so i think the jacksons on that score are going to end up taking those children. those children look perfectly natural among the jacksons. i think it would be very strange if debbie rowe took over the custody. >> mike walker, don't you think she will resurface to try to make some kind of a claim -- >> yes. >> -- only if just to get another payday to just go away? >> as i said, there's plenty of money there. she will resurface -- >> is there plenty of money, mike walker? >> yes, yes, yes, their re is. once michael jackson is, how to put this delicately, out of the picture and not spending millions of dollars a week, all of the assets he has are going
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to keep building and building and building. there's plenty of money. ♪ i'll reach out my hand to you ♪ ♪ i have faith in all you do ♪ just call my name ♪ and i'll be there
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ever since i was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. and i just want to say i love him so much. ♪ hold me ♪ like the river of jordan ♪ and i will then say to thee
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♪ you are my friend ♪ carry me like you were my brother ♪ ♪ love me like a mother ♪ will you be there >> in our darkest hour, in my deepest despair, will you still care? will you be there? in my trials and my tribulations, through our doubts and frustrations, in my violence, in my turbulence, through my fear, and my confessions, in my anguish, and my pains, through my joy and my
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sorrow, in the promise of another tomorrow, i'll never let you part. for you're always in my heart. superstar michael jackson's 14-karat gold bedecked per mython casket being taken out of the staples center as 20,000 people look on inside the arena. million also around the world mourning along with those 20,000. but not far away, just across town, in fact, a home size investigation continued. t our chief editorial producer ellie joestead. remember, those warrants were sought by robbery homicide there in l.a. >> that's right, nancy. three warrants served at the jackson home. also, we know that the lapd is
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focusing on five doctors. doctors who either treated michael jackson or prescribed drugs to him. they talked to one of those doctors, dr. conrad murray. that's the doctor who was with him when jackson collapsed. new published reports that dr. murray was not licensed to prescribe drugs in california. >> he's the host of "insight" with klaa. out to brian. brian, i know you have spoken to many of the people in jackson's family. today, congressman peter king made very harsh comments about michael jackson. and, you know, brian, during the child molestation charges, i made no secret of the fact that the youth minister, for instance that testified against him i found very, very credible, but that's over. that's between him and god now. we are not here to speak ill of the dead. why the harsh comments?
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and what were they? >> they were terrible, nancy. >> why now? >> why now? for what earthly purpose does it serve? a jury said he was innocent. i have looked at the evidence he was innocent. i want to tell you something, nancy. when you speak, i find your statements to be intelligent. i find them to be informed. when i find congressman peter king is to be uninformed, totally off the wall, and the man doesn't really know what he's talking about. i am offended and i don't like it at all. >> well, what i don't understand, mr. oxman, is that during the trial, leading up to the trial, there was justice to be sought. there was a purpose for those discussions. forrying light, shedding light on the evidence. but now jackson is dead. all that's left of michael jackson is his musical legacy and those three children who one day may very well read the transcripts of this show and others, may watch this show and
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others. as they mature. so what's the purpose of throwing a stone now? isn't it a day late and a dollar short? if you've got something to say, why not say it then when it could have amounted to something? >> historians are going to be dissecting michael jackson's career, his life, his legacy, for years to come. they're going to have every kind of impression of him possibly imaginable. but on this day, to speak ill of michael jackson, not only is foolish, but what we've seen -- and i think michael would have been stunned at the outpouring of affection and love for him all around the world. he would have been pleased. he would have smiled. but i guess there's always somebody in there who's got to be a fly in the ointment. >> you are seeing the memorial there outside the staples center. outpouring of grief today. but still amidst it all, where were these people, the family,
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the friends, the well wishers, when jackson's life could have been saved? so his children have a father? the man traveling with a mobile i.v. unit to get injections of painkillers intravenously? could this have been prevented? ♪ like a comet blazing across the evening sky ♪ ♪ gone too soon ♪ like a rainbow fading
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i'm lost for words. i was his voice and his backbone. i had his back. >> i hurt. >> ever since i was born, daddy has been the best father you
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could ever imagine. and i just want to say i love him. so much. >> amongth all the hangers-on, the vultures, the star-suckers, that moment of clarity and truth rang out. as michael jackson's 11-year-old little girl voiced her grief in a heartbreaking tribute to her father. we are taking your calls. first, unleash the lawyers. susan moss. veteran trial lawyer, family law, attorney. raymond duzce shea. pame pamela hayes, long time, no see, friend. veteran lawyer. defense attorney in multiple jurisdictions. susan moss, weigh in. >> if debbie rowe is going to try to get custody, there's some problems here because the law favors rowe, even though those children she doesn't know.
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thank god it's not joe. there's a supreme court case. in that case, any parent is presumed to be the best guardian for children. and unless you can prove that that parent is unfit, she will win. and that's a big problem, but we'll see what happens. >> you know what, susan moss, you're absolutely right. the law does favor the bio mom. now, she may or may not be the bio mom. she says she is. that remains to be seen. to you, raymond, what about these five doctors that were apparently writing prox prescriptions for him? they're facing years behind bars. per offense for writing false prescriptions or giving drugs to a known addict. >> i think there's both professional liability and criminal liability here. let me give a hypothetical. i'm a doctor taking care full time of a 50-year-old man that weighs 115 pounds with shots all over his body? there's a problem there. >> and, pam hayes, remember,
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charges came down against the doctor in the wrestler case, benoit. >> yes, they did, nancy. but, you know, i'm a -- you just got to wait and see what's going to happen here. a lot of things happening. don't want to jump to any conclusions. >> wait and see? that's the best you've got to throw to me, pam hayes? wait and see. >> that's it. we don't have any evidence.
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ever since i was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. and i just want to say i love him so much. ♪ you are not alone ♪ i am here with you ♪ though you're far away
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♪ i am here to stay ♪ you are not alone ♪ you are not alone ♪ i am here with you ♪ i am here with you ♪ though you're far away ♪ though you're far away ♪ i am here to stay ♪ that you are not alone ♪ you are always in my heart ♪ i am here with you ♪ though we're far apart ♪ you're always in my heart ♪ you are not alone ♪ not alone not alone ♪ you and me ♪ not alone >> although our hearts are aching, we need to look up where he is undoubtedly perched in a
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crescent moon. >> an outpouring of love through song. an emotional tribute. thousands of fan, friends, family members gather to honor a legend. remembered by millions as one of the world's greatest entertainers. jackson's body was there inside a golden casket. >> i love you, mike, and i'll miss you. >> straight out to mar lane that, our producer there at the jackson family home ensino. i understand the family is arriving home now. >> that's right, nancy. there is a ton of activity behind me. family is coming in and out. the jackson siblings. the entire jackson inner circle is come back and they keep coming back out. the fans are going crazy. they're stopping to talk. they're waving out the window. it's amazing thing. actually, right now, if you can see, there's a limo pulling up behind me. as we speak. they're try to get them in safely. it's very organized. everybody -- everybody is abiding by the rules.
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and is just having a good time and celebrating michael jackson out here. >> i want to go back to mike walker, senior editor with "the national enquirer" who was there at the staples center today. why is his body being kept in a secret location? >> there's obviously drama going on. we believe behind the scenes as we talked about the other day, nancy, michael never wanted to be buried at neverland. we believe that was joe's plan. we think mrs. jackson and the girls interfered with that and said, look, he would not want to be buried there. even if he could have gotten, you know, permission from the municipality to be buried on the property like that. but we now, again today, the sudden -- the casket suddenly come to the staples center unexpected. now, suddenly, the casket is in an undisclosed location. joe jackson has something up his sleeve. there is a drama here. they're keeping the drama alive. why, i don't know. >> to jackson family friend. the former family spokesperson. thank you for being with us. where is jackson's body right
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now? what's happening within the family about who's going to take care of the children? >> well, that's the $64,000 question right now, where jackson's body is right now. as far as the child is concerned or the children are concerned, i am convinced they're in the best place. wonderful environment. as i've stated over and over again, i've seen them up close and pearsonal with members the family and the interaction is just beyond description and it was so good to see paris again. she's a shy young lady, a shy girl. she spoke from the heart and she said exactly how she felt about her father. >> out to the lines. andr andrea, pennsylvania. hi, dear. >> caller: i have a question about the children and the custody. >> okay. >> caller: would they be -- having to go through a psychological evaluation? if so, would the psychiatrist be able to tell if they are being coached or -- you know, pushed to say things?
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>> good question. to dr. jeff gardere. dr. jeff, what about it? >> only if custody does become a issue and we believe it will be. >> oh it will be an issue. >> yes. and someone may request some sort of evaluation. it might be debbie rowe who may say, i think the kids are being coached. they're being coached to be with the jackson family. so i want an evaluation. if they do an evaluation on the kid, believe me, they'll do an evaluation on her also. >> did you see that clip we were showing last night of her cursing people out? attack a camera person outside a chinese restaurant of all places? >> absolutely. >> threatening them? i mean, you know, jeff -- >> yeah? >> -- that's not a good look for mommy. >> no, not a good look and not at this time, totally inappropriate. we also need to understand as inappropriate as she is at this time, the bottom line is, she has been portrayed, maybe accurately so, as sort of being a nonmother. so she is not being seen in the
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best light in the media, portrayed in that way, and she's personalized that. >> you know, dr. jeff, one more question very quickly. it's very difficult for many of us who have been longtime fans of michael jackson. look, i remember growing up, about three inches from the screen, watching "soul train" every saturday, trying to do what he was doing. and then, growing up, becoming a crime victim, a prosecutor, and then coming down hard on jackson during those child molestation charges. today, brings up a conundrum for many people. >> oh, absolutely, it does. because people -- there are those people who love michael jackson. warts and all. then there are those people who say, this is a guy who was brought up on child molestation charges, as we saw with representative king, being as inappropriate as i thought he was being, but people still have those feelings, where they say, hey this guy wasn't a guy that
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we're making him out to be and we have to in some ways resolve that in our own minds. >> but, dr. jeff, can't both things be true? can't both of those -- the dichotomy, both of those halves, be true? >> well, we have set michael up as being an idol and as an icon. psychologically, we look at people as either being all good or all bad. very rarely do we -- are we able to look at them as being people with complexity. >> well, i don't know if i would complexity, but i get your gist. to physician, professor of public health, john hopkins. doctor, honor to have you. i've got in my hand death certificate out of the city, county of l.a. it says deferred. and it says temporary. regarding type of disposition. when are we going to know? >> well, we know that the heart stopped. we don't know why. they've sent toxicology tests.
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they should take a few more weeks to come back. what people are really looking for is high doses of this diprivan or this magical drug we call propophyl or milk of mag niche sha. it's very dangerous. >> isn't it used in surgery to knock you out and you wake up, feel almost refreshed? >> it's essentially only used for general anesthesia. the only place you can find it really is in a secure supply room inside a hospital. >> that's what i was wondering. he had multiple vials of this around his home. and out to you, detective lieutenant steven rogers. former fed with the fbi. detective, multiple vials. you can't get those except out of a locked room in the hospital. >> you're exactly right. i can tell you this. the dea and the lapd will find out exactly what happened and
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who's responsible for what's happening. somebody's going to go to prison. >> to stacy brown, jackson family friend, co-author of "michael jackson, the man behind the mask." isn't anybody asking any questions, why this guy had multiple vials of diprivan in his home? now his kids are left orphaned. >> well, nancy, i'm sure those questions are being asked. joe jackson, as we saw in his press conference, expressed a lot of concern about that. and, you know, again, i think the blame on this will fall with the doctors and i hate to see people blame the family, because i know that they've tried all they can to help michael jackson. >> you know, that's a good point. you can try and try and try and if somebody doesn't want to be helped, they don't hear a word you say. with me, stacy brown, author of "michael jackson, the man behind the mask." quick break. we're taking your calls. we'll be right out to your calls when we get back. happy birthday to a dean's list student at uga, dan. happy birthday, dan. and happy birthday to new york
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friends, little twins, sonya and savana. they turn 7 today. they love the outside, elmo and dora the explorer. ♪ we are the world ♪ we are the children ♪ we are the ones who make a brighter day so let ae's start giving ♪ ♪ there's a choice we're making ♪ ♪ we're saving our own lives
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♪ hey ♪ >> what michael jackson's achieved -- >> -- "man in the mirror," michael jackson. >> again, say thank you, thanks to god. in the past, i've gone from "where is he" to "here he is again." >> i love you, michael. >> i must confess, it feels good to be thought of as a person, not as a personality. ♪ ow fame, fortune -- they're all illusions.
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♪ ♪ who's bad ♪ who's bad ♪ who's bad ♪ ow ♪ ♪ that's right i'm bad i'm bad ♪ really really bad ♪ you know i'm bad i'm bad ♪ you know it ♪ really really bad ♪ you know i'm bad i'm bad ♪ you know it really really bad ♪ ♪ you know ♪ you know ♪ you know ♪ really really bad ♪ and the whole world has to answer right now ♪ ♪ just to tell you once again who's bad ♪ we are taking your call. sheba, illinois. what's your question, dear? >> caller: my question is, could michael have accidentally hooked
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himself up -- and i know this has to be given as a pump because i've given -- >> wait a minute, aren't you a former nurse? >> yeah. >> how can you accidentally hook yourself up? >> caller: maybe he was apt at starting his own i.v. after watching people or maybe somebody taught him to. and, like you said, this drug is powerful -- the only time i've ever used it is in icu, when people had -- >> okay, let's go to the doctor on that. accidental use possibly, dip live and? diprivan? i don't see it being an accident. >> you have to continuously infuse it to get the effect. the second you stop giving it, the second you wake up. >> oh, okay, got it. to joe land, michigan. hi, dear. >> caller: love your show. god bless you and your churn. >> thank you. >> caller: my question is, why would any court consider giving
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debbie rowe these children when she has publicly stated on tv "these are not my children, they're michael's"? >> what about it, pam hayes? >> see, the problem here is not that she's the biological mom, that's one factor. it's the best interest of the children. and that's the standard that the court has to abide by. and this is a woman who basically appears to be a high-paid surrogate. as she hasn't done anything, in my mind, to convince any judge that this would be the best place for those two children. >> susan moss, another concern is i'm certainly not saying they should go to debbie rowe, all right, my concern is, katherine jackson is 79 years old. all right? she's almost 80. and then the backup is diana ross? >> he chose diana ross -- >> i know -- >> i mean, she was caught driving on the sauce. who would choose diana ross? i mean, it's crazy. but in 2005, debbie rowe's
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parental rights were restored. once your parental rights are there, the court needs to prove that you're unfit under the supreme court precedent. we've got a big problem. >> ray giudice. >> bio mom, parental rights restored, her age relative to miss jackson. she's got a hand in this game. >> the thing is, ray, regardless of what any of us may think, all right, it is what he put in his will. that was his decision to name a nearly 80-year-old woman -- speaking of diana ross, here she is in her latest video. oh, that's a police car dash cam. sorry. that's at her dui arrest, where she -- the alphabet, ray, said, a, b, g, g, whatever. >> that's right, nancy. and, again, i agree, miss rowe has a strong hand. and the judge is going to do what was just said, what's in the best interest of the children. last thing, custody is not all
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or nothing at all. there's partial custody. there's split custody. you might see a wise judge -- >> put >> yes? >> the only time you have split custody is when there's no alternative. when you're trying to make the best out of a bad situation. >> and that may be in a solomon-like decision that this judge finds is in the best interest of the children. that's the overriding mantra. >> but why? >> -- of something, guidice? solomon? solomon? what do you know about solomon's decision? >> i've learn a few things in my 15 years, nancy. >> tell me, tell me, tell me -- >> you have to make the best decision -- >> he told two mothers he would split the baby in half and as a result, one gave the child full custody to the other mother. so watch out telling a story you don't know what it means. >> the judge's decision was wise and it gave both parents custody rights. one may have given it up.
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but i'm telling you, miss rowe has a very strong legal hand here. >> to mike walker, with "the national enquirerer." bottom line. just give it to me. the reality is, is she's going to make a bid so she can get another payday and go back, go away. >> that is what i believe, yes. >> that's what's happening. and it's wrong. because they're using these children like pawns in some money game. you say there's money. i don't know that there's money. but isn't this crazy? that jackson owns a piece of lady gag ga and the jonas brothers? they're like, what, 12, the jonas brothers? how can he own part of their profits, mike walker? >> well, because deals were made for various publishing companies and they ended up under a publishing company that michael owns the right to. he has an enormous catalog. >> very quickly, everyone, quick break. our thoughts and prayers to family of a wonderful texas friend of show, brett church. he lost his life at just 38.
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an expert barbecuer. he loves new recipes, restoring muscle cars, especially his own classic souped up mustang. huge animal lover. rescued dozens of cats and dogs. his greatest joy, his son and his wife. he leaves behind a grieving mother. donna kay. who is a personal friend of our show. and widow melanie, 17-year-old son dakota. after a brave, brave battle, brett church. good night, friend.
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tonight, michael jackson, dead at 50. ♪ you know i'm bad ♪ i'm really bad ♪ you know it ♪ i'm bad ♪ you know ♪ you know >> music icon michael jackson dead at 50. ♪ >> i need an ambulance as soon as possible, sir. he's not breathing, sir.
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he's not conscious, sir. ♪ since you went away >> my brother passed away on thursday, june 26th, 2009, at 2:26 p.m. >> first videotape we have seen from that final full dress rehearsal. >> michael was there, he was present, he was completely in it. ♪ you are not alone ♪ i am here with you >> ever since i was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. i just want to say i love him so much. >> this is the final -- this is the final curtain call.
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let's stop and remember army staff sergeant gregory wagner. awarded the bronze star. purple heart. and army commendation medal. loved car, especially his chevy monte carlo. notre dame, hunting, handing out baseball cards and bubble gum to iraqi kids. his family sent care package to a family he adopted in iraq. gregory wagner, american hero. thanks to our guests, but especially you for being with us. a special good night to atlanta friends of the show christina, anna, and risky. everyone, i'll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 p.m. sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend.
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coming up next on "issues" a very emotional moment at the staples center. his 11-year-old daughter paris speaks out, crying into the microphone. she says she misses her daddy very much. as the jackson clan hovers around her, protectively. it is an astounding moment. we are going to analyze it. also, where is michael jackson's casket headed as it leaves the staples center? what was its final destination? do we even know? a misery tonight that -- mystert we will explore, coming up tonight on "issues."
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