tv Nancy Grace HLN July 26, 2009 10:00pm-11:00pm EDT
tonight, the mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon michael jackson intensifies. questions mounting as to his sudden death, his $500 million empire, and more important, custody of the star's three little children. after murder charges leveled in the death of jackson, his family publicly claiming jackson was murdered. bombshell tonight. just hours ago, the dea, lapd, and houston police join forces in a surprise raid on jackson's live-in doctor.
police searching for evidence of manslaughter. seizing numerous items. images of computer hard drives. scores of documents, charges aimed at jackson's live-in doctor by jackson's family, who points the finger at the private doc. allegedly performing cpr at the time the music icon died. this after it's revealed police seized evidence from jackson's own bedroom to make a case of homicide, including a bedside oxygen tank. a bag of liquid from an iv pole. multiple tanks of oxygen from the bedroom and garage. at the same time, the raid goes down hours ago on jackson's private doc. is grandmother, katherine jackson, being manipulated into having her son, superstar michael jackson, declared incompetent? incompetent at the time he wrote his will? is she being played like a fiddle by father, joe jackson?
legal experts say incompetence is the only way the jacksons can finally get their mitts on jackson's $500 million empire. tonight we learn not one, but two autopsies reveal fresh needle marks and the deadly drug propofol in jackson's system. yes, it was predicted women would come out of the woodwork claiming to be the biomom of his children. tonight, has a bioson emerged? that's right. is there a fourth jackson offspring? all this as we uncover the secret location of jackson's body, hidden miles away, protected by armed guards to stop would-be body snatchers. surrounding neighbors tonight mount a battle to stop the jackson brothers' plan for a burial theme park at neverland. it's war. a high-tech security system allegedly monitoring every inch of the home with a secret video
of jackson's final moments, gone. also, a bag of drugs, an iv pole, syringes, iv bags, gone. a second autopsy revealing fresh needle marks in jackson's neck. veins riddled with track marks. skin paper-white. body emaciated. reports he wanted to be put under with an iv drip for days on end, lying there like a living corpse as the vultures circle his dead body including corporate giant aeg trying to sell video of his dress rehearsal for $50 million. the fate of his three children unknown. >> we have a personal doctor here with him, sir. >> oh, you have a doctor there? >> breaking news for you on the michael jackson investigation. >> clearly what you are seeing
live is a full-scale search warrant being served on the offices in houston there of dr. murray. >> police searched the houston office of michael jackson's personal doctor, dr. conrad murray. they served a warrant that quote, authorized law enforcement to search for and seize items they believe constitute evidence of the offense of manslaughter. that is from a statement by dr. murray's attorney. >> they had no idea this was happening. in fact, they say throughout this investigation they have been completely cooperating with authorities, saying that, hey, if they wanted anything, they should have just asked for it, we'd be more than happy to give it. >> murray has emerged as a central figure in the investigation of michael jackson's death. the doctor was with the singer when he collapsed and died in his los angeles home last month. >> something prompted them to take this to another level. >> do you want to know about foul play? if a doctor's there that couldn't bring anybody -- this doctor, he ran away. they had to look for him three days to find him. what do you think happened?
to me, it's foul play. >> i never seen my brother have different or abnormal behavior that would be -- any substance that would cause that. to say these things, i don't know. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. the mystery surrounding the sudden death of music superstar michael jackson intensifies. >> you don't take a doctor and stick him in the room and the doctor give him something to make him rest, then he don't wake up no more. something is wrong there. >> federal agents are searching a houston building in connection with the death of michael jackson. the search warrant uses the word "manslaughter." live pictures there as investigators are searching the houston office of michael jackson's personal doctor, dr. conrad murray. the drug enforcement administration tells cnn it is assisting the lapd in executing a search warrant at that address.
>> the dea helping out with a search warrant being executed on the offices, the clinics of dr. conrad murray. this is the doctor that was with michael jackson at the time of his death. he has been interviewed by investigators here in los angeles. but clearly, they are going in looking for more material. >> that's what this -- somehow, i understand that he left or went to sleep, i don't know what happened there. something went wrong. because when they tried to bring michael back, he was dead. something went wrong. >> the spokesperson for dr. murray's attorneys, they say they are completely surprised by this. they say they have been cooperating. they say anything they want from us, we're more than willing to give them, saying they're surprised a search warrant was served. >> something happened there. there's something else behind all of that. i'm saying it's foul play.
>> i'm not sure that -- whatever it is, i was totally against that. i fought to get him in neverland. it's his work. it's his imagination. it's what he dreamt of. he had dreamed and he imagined and he brought it to reality. i just feel that's where he needs to be. >> in the last hours, the dea joins forces with the lapd and houston police in a surprise raid on michael jackson's live-in doctor. straight out to ted rowlands joining us there in l.a. what happened, ted? >> reporter: nancy, 21 documents and a copy of the hard drive of a computer in dr. murray's clinic was taken out of that clinic. but the shocker here, when you talk to dr. murray's lawyers' representatives, this was a complete surprise to them. they said they had open dialogue and a meeting scheduled, a third interview scheduled in l.a. on friday between murray and investigators, and this was a complete shock. then that search warrant saying in it they were looking for
material that would back up, basically, a possible -- possible -- case of manslaughter against murray. clearly, after all the back and forth, this is a death investigation, homicide investigation? it's a homicide investigation. >> ted rowlands joining us from l.a. ted, in every search warrant, as you well know, there's got to be probable cause for police to swoop in and start searching. what was the probable cause? what did they lay out against this doctor? >> we don't have a copy of the search warrant yet. that is troubling in itself, that that hasn't surfaced. it was probably filed under seal. we've been desperately trying to get a copy of it. to get more, like you say, more information as to the probable cause, clearly there was probable cause during this investigation. something they came across, whether the interviews with murray or some of the others evidence or some of the other interviews with other doctors that led them to go to the clinic and get what they wanted. not ask for what they wanted, to go in there and get it. a judge said, yes, you have the probable cause, go ahead.
it was signed off on. obviously. big difference in the whole investigation between the cooperation level. and now a search warrant is served. >> oh, yes. ted rowlands joining us from l.a. out to mike brooks, former fed with the fbi. mike, this is serious. because all this back and forth, it's not a homicide, it is a homicide. they go in in a surprise raid on this guy's office. a private doctor. the live-in doctor with michael jackson. to raid him, go through his computer, take images of his hard drive. we know scores of documents were taken. what do you think, ted? >> nancy, i can tell you, for them to get that search warrant, some of our viewers might not realize what probable cause is. probable cause, any set or facts or circumstances that would lead a reasonable and prudent officer to believe a crime is being committed, has been committed, or is about to be committed. that's what they're looking for, something for manslaughter, nancy. >> ian, senior editor with "us weekly." weigh in, ian. >> this has been building all
along. i mean, we've known this since day one. it's what the jackson family wanted. they have been after proving that michael was in great form. this is exactly a total mystery to us. meanwhile, they have been lying through their teeth. there were interventions planned. all kinds of things going on. he was not in as good of shape as we thought. a lot of different things going on with him at the time in getting ready for this. jarring his system and the drugs, and the doctor then running away after he died. sort of plays into this murder mystery. and it's getting more and more real by the day, as we can see. >> joining us tonight, exclusively since subpoenas went out, nurse cherilyn lee, the former nurse to michael jackson. her office searched by the coroner today. thank you for being with us. i think i've got cherilyn lee with me. cherilyn, are you there? okay. liz, try to hook me up with her. in the meantime, let's unleash the lawyers. joining me, susan moss, new york. renee rockwell, atlanta.
hugo rodriguez joining me out of miami. let's go to the lines. donna in toronto, hi. >> caller: hi. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: it's more of a comment. i mean, i really liked michael jackson and i feel badly that he's gone. but at what point do we take responsibility for our own health? i mean, this doctor -- he can be charged tomorrow but there's a hundred more to take his place. he had three children. now they're orphans. he was playing russian roulette with his life.
stop the crazy names they call him. what more do you have to do to make people realize he's a human being. >> did anybody witness what happened? >> just the doctor, sir. >> i have a lot of concern. >> what are your concerns? >> i can't get into that, but i don't like what happened. >> there's nothing in his history, nothing that dr. murray knew that would lead him to believe that he would go into sudden cardiac arrest. or respiratory failure. >> his daughter said it all. my daddy, he was a human being, he was a person, he was a father, he was a uncle, he was a brother, he was a son. they need to leave him alone. he's the number one donor of charity around the globe, giving his -- every cent from his tours, giving it to charity. to paint him to be this person that he's not, it bothers me, it bothers my family. it bothers all of us.
>> out to the lines, dee in texas. hi, dee. >> caller: hello, nancy. i have a quick question. michael had had this drug before. and had seen the doctor give it to him. it sounds like he already had an iv catheter in. could he have possibly planted tubing himself and given himself the lethal dose? as the nurse had said he knew when he saw the first drop, he would be able to sleep, and he wasn't afraid because he had had it done before. >> out to brian oxman, former jackson family attorney and host of "insight" on news radio klaa. what about it, brian? >> that is exactly what the police are investigating. you've got so much speculation. so many accusations being made here. you've got to listen to the police and you've got to watch their actions. their actions today say they mean business. and that there is big fire where there is smoke here.
and the police are saying, through their actions, that they've got evidence, that they're acting on that evidence. it's going to be slow and meticulous but watch out, they're doing their job, i give them an a-plus. >> brian, that was not even remotely the question. >> you can't tell -- >> the question is -- >> you cannot tell the answer to that. >> the question was suicide. what the police did today was nothing to do with suicide, it has to do with manslaughter. >> that's correct. you cannot tell the last hours of michael jackson's business, nor should you speculate what they are. let the police do their job. because they're doing it very well. >> to dr. marty makary joining us from johns hopkins. he's a physician and professor of public health there. dr. makary, physically speaking -- i don't know the psyche of michael jackson at time of death but physically speaking, would that have been possible to commit suicide in that manner? >> it would have to be a single large dose of that propofol.
nobody takes propofol like that, nancy. it's a slow drip, over time, that's used for general anesthesia. the second it's turned off is the second you'd wake up. so it's really inconceivable somebody would self-administer propofol. >> back to ted rowlands joining us from l.a. what did they seize, ted, regarding the computer? >> they went in and copied a hard drive of one of the computers inside the clinic and took 21 separate documents aside from that. on the hard drive, you can imagine there could be thousands of documents and the history presumably that they were looking for dating back to who knows what. the computer hard drive is most likely the key bit of evidence here. >> to nakita moody joining us tonight. music editor with the ap, she's been covering this from the very beginning. what do you make of it? >> i think people have been focusing on conrad murray for a long time. and i think that obviously they're going to look at him because he was the only person
in the room. i think there's so much speculation and so much intense interest, the police have to do whatever they can to really find out exactly what's going on because there's so much intense interest from his family, from fans. people want to know what exactly was his role. >> back to the lawyers, leonard leeds, susan moss, renee rockwell, hugo rodriguez. susan moss, the attorneys for jackson's live-in doctor say he's cooperating. he's having all these interviews with them. another one was set up. that is all bs. the police have had it up to here with his cooperating and they raided him. >> absolutely. and it's not just this doctor. michael jackson had so many doctors, they should call them the jackson 12. there's a whole host of people giving prescriptions to the guy. prescriptions that probably were not warranted. the fact that this guy had diprivan in his house is outrageous. that should only be in a surgical setting. all of those doctors are going to go down and some of them are
going to go down for murder. >> to you natisha lance, on the story from the very beginning. what can you tell me about grandmother katherine jackson being manipulated into trying to declare michael jackson incompetent at the time he signed his will? >> katherine jackson filed a petition today, nancy. in this petition, she is asking to assume a role as the administer. there's two executors on the will. what we're being told is that the only way to find it null and void would be if michael jackson was found to be incompetent when he signed his name on the will back in 2002. >> leonard leeds, how likely is it there's mounting a battle of incompetence, claiming he's out of it, crazy at the time he signed his will. how hard is that to do? >> virtually impossible. to go back seven years and say he was incompetent at that time, when we look at the will it seems reasonable. he left the estate to his kids and mother. what's wrong with that?
breaking news in the investigation into the death of michael jackson. just hours ago, federal drug agents raided the office of dr. conrad murray. >> reports about the powerful sedative diprivan now found in michael jackson's home. this powerful drug is used in operating rooms to knock out patients. >> dr. murray was michael jackson's personal doctor and was with him when he died. >> if there's indications these drugs may have been administered by another party, via injection, then this very well could be a homicide investigation.
>> dr. murray's lawyers say detectives are looking for evidence of manslaughter. >> as you may already know, after my tour ended i remained out of the country undergoing treatment for a dependency on pain medication. >> if that powerful anesthetic was the cause of death, then anyone who issued it and was not physically there to administer it committed gross negligence and should be held accountable. >> "the sun" newspaper in london said it interviewed tito jackson, michael jackson's older brother. in speaking about dr. murray the paper says tito said, "my opinion is he panicked when my brother didn't wake up. i think the doctor probably figured there could be trouble. he tried to revive michael. i believe if he immediately had called for help, we might still have my brother here today." >> it's murder, i think someone did it, that's my opinion. >> i'm not sure if he's in mr. gordy's crypt or whatever it is. but i was totally against that.
i fought to get him at neverland. it's his work. it's his imagination. it's what he dreamt of. and he had dreams and he imagined and he brought it to reality. and i just feel that's where he needs to be. >> we are taking your calls live. out to sharon in florida. hi, sharon. >> caller: hi, nancy, how are you? >> i'm good, dear, what's your question? >> caller: last week you said on several, several occasions that the doctor came at night and left first thing in the morning. why is it that day he just so happened to be there at lunchtime? >> excellent question. excellent question. what do you know about it, natisha lance? >> what we're being told is dr. murray would be on call for michael jackson at any time. he could come at night, he could come in the morning. whenever michael jackson needed him is when he would be at the home. >> natisha, where we got a lot of that information is when his personal chef was describing all of the oxygen tanks he saw coming in and out of the home.
and he as i recall is the one that detailed how this doctor would come, conrad murray, would come in the evening and leave in the morning. basically he could come whenever, correct? >> that's correct. >> i want to go back to a special guest joining us tonight exclusively. cherilyn lee. the former nurse to michael jackson. today, her office visited and searched by the coroners. files taken. so, miss lee, they wanted what you offered. which was basically jackson's entire medical file that you had. >> yes. but they didn't -- it didn't quite happen like that. because the call that i received was, they were going to -- they actually sent me an e-mail with the subpoena and told me i could just fax over -- >> right, i heard that and it was too much to fax. what did they -- >> i told them we could just pick it up and i'd have it ready for them. >> i understood that from before. what is in the medical file that would be relevant to jackson's death?
>> they really just wanted a hard copy of what i had already stated. they said, thank you very much for coming forward, stating about the medication for to us look for, because we would never have known to look for that. they just wanted it in writing. they just had to follow legal, you know, protocol for obtaining a medical file. >> out to the lawyers. leonard leeds, susan moss #, renee rockwell, hugo rodriguez. they have state ved clearly that she is not a suspect, renee rockwell, but when you are the subject of a surprise raid -- i'm not talking about the nurse, i'm talking about the private live-in doctor -- you got problems. his lawyers keep going on tv saying everything is fine. we're cooperating. we are having interviews. interviews? this is a raid. >> yeah, nancy. i disagree with anybody that said this is merely an investigation. to me, it was always a murder investigation. the doctors involved themselves,
had dialogue with the police. this was definitely a surprise attack and i imagine it's in light of the fact more material could have been destroyed. >> hugo rodriguez? >> i think i've got to agree. they wanted to surprise him. before anything was destroyed and to see what was there. obviously, we know that michael had this anesthetic medicine in him. i'd read reports that he traveled previously with anesthesiologists that would take him up and bring him down. we don't know exactly what happened. but they want to find out who administered what, what doses, if it was the proper thing to do. this is going to be a battle of medical experts. >> joining us now is karen stark, psychologist out of new york. karen, it's great to see you again. two things, number one, a doctor. i can imagine this physical image. hovering over jackson. putting an iv in him, making him
sleep overnight on an operating room sedative. why? doctors can make a very, very fat living off just being a doctor. why do something like that? >> i feel like it's the celebrity, nancy. it has to do with wanting to be around a person like that. and it's so powerful that people begin to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do. very hard to resist when a celebrity is asking you to do something like that. >> karen stark, we are hearing reports that grandmother, katherine jackson, now 79 years old, the legal guardian of his three children pursuant to his will, is being manipulated, being pressured to challenge jackson's competency at the time he wrote the will. in other words, say he didn't know what he was doing. we all know that a few weeks before his death, they were all out celebrating an anniversary at jackson's favorite indian food restaurant. how can the two things fit together? >> if he didn't know what he was
doing, he named his mother to have custody of his children. so then that doesn't make any sense either. she doesn't seem like that kind of person, but my guess is she's getting a lot of pressure because of financial gain. and perhaps her husband is behind it. because it doesn't make any sense. >> we all know, reports that aeg is trying to sell the last video of jackson's rehearsal for $60 million. the family getting the lion's share of that. 40% under the will would go to katherine jackson. 40% to the children. and 20% to charity. i want to go back to natisha lance. natisha, we predicted that women would crawl out of the woodwork claiming they are the bio mom of the three children. now, an alleged bio son has crawled out of the woodwork. what's that about? >> yes. elmer batty, 25 years old. allegedly he was at the memorial for michael jackson. his mother is named pia batty.
apparently according to reports they lived at neverland for a certain period of time. not only is she the mother of this child, she allegedly is also the mother of michael jackson's youngest child, blanket. like you said, people are crawling out of the woodwork and i guess you have to question the sources. is this about a legitimate claim -- >> hold on, natisha. look at the screen. we are showing the jackson family at jackson's memorial. there's a red arrow on the left of the screen pointing to this young man. >> right. we haven't been able to confirm it. you have to question the sources. you have to wonder, is it a legitimate claim or just because it's michael jackson and there's a lot of money at stake here. >> this guy, 25 years old, allegedly claiming he's the bio son of michael jackson. is up there on the front row with the family? is that what i just saw? >> it's allegedly what you saw. >> what we think we saw. >> correct. >> this is what i don't get. leonard leeds, you're the expert in wills and estates. why would he wait until jackson
is dead to make a claim? >> i think he may have just thought of it. you know? >> what? >> first of all, nobody prethought jackson would die like that. who knows. he would have to have a blood test to prove he's a son. maybe when jackson was alive, he never came forward. >> okay. marty makary, tell me. can you do a paternity test post-autopsy? >> sure you can. the dna is still there. >> how? >> you take a sample. there's an analysis that takes about four or five days. they run the sample. they get a map of your dna and they try to match it to whoever they're looking at. >> quick break. we are taking your calls. now tonight's safety tip. every year, hundreds die from a silent killer in their own homes. carbon monoxide. here are the tips to protect you and your family. install carbon monoxide detectors outside all of your bedrooms. home heating systems and fuel-burning appliances must be
serviced and inspected every year. never use charcoal grills or any gasoline-powered engines like snow blowers or generators when you're in a confined space. do not leave your car idling in the garage, even if the door is open to the garage. and most important, do not ignore symptoms like headaches, dizziness, nausea, immediately go outside to fresh air and call 911. for more information, please go to epa.gov.
entered the clinic with search warrants. they spent two and a half hours inside going through dr. murray's medical records. >> a source involved with the investigation told us numerous bottles of prescription medication had been found in jackson's $100,000 a month rented mansion. >> if a doctor irresponsibly gave michael jackson diprivan and that's the primary cause of death, how's that not murder? >> murray's attorney says they were looking for evidence of manslaughter. the first confirmation that l.a. police may be pursuing criminal charges in michael jackson's death. but the warrant is sealed so there's no way to know specifically what was listed in it. >> dr. conrad murray was with michael jackson when he died. but murray's only one several doctors who treated jackson. l.a. police won't say if any search warrants had been issued for any of the other positions. >> michael jackson had a very good relationship with all of his doctors. michael jackson was controlling everything. remember, he put a physician on his payroll for this concert.
so evidently, he was the one who was telling him what he needed. >> i've never seen my brother have any different, abnormal behavior that would -- any substance that would cause that. so, to say these things, i don't know. i've never seen it. i would say no. >> back to ted rowlands joining us there in l.a. ted, explain to me how the rate went down. what time, what happened, who was there, did they let him in, did they have to bust the door down. what exactly went down? >> they didn't have to bust the door down. by any stretch of the imagination. took about two and a half hours -- >> good to know. >> yeah, yeah, very good to know. cooperation is still taking place. two and a half hours it took them. not a lot of them. they obviously knew what they were looking for. they brought with them some folks with the dea that are experts in this field that could help them basically target their search. so lapd had a lot of help with people who are familiar with
clinics and pharmacy-type atmospheres, looking for records. they got that hard drive, a copy of the hard drive. 21 documents. then they were out. two and a half hours, didn't seem like too big a deal. look at the video, they sure did bring a lot of agents. >> was the doctor there when the raid went down? >> no, apparently not. according to the lawyers, he was not there when the raid went down. and again, they said that it was a complete surprise. >> do we have any idea whether the claims by jackson's family that this doctor went missing, was hiding about three days after michael jackson's death? >> totally false. basically what happened was, initially after michael jackson died, murray was at the hospital, talked to investigators for a short period of time. then he left. and at that point, he retained counsel. this counsel out of houston. they came to los angeles to help facilitate the communication between murray and detectives before he went to talk to detectives. he wanted a lawyer. that's simply what it was.
there was a time delay there and it really got blown out of proportion. >> back to dr. marty makary, physician and professor of public health at johns hopkins. dr. makary, what are they looking for in his hard drive? i mean, if, if, he were illegally getting his hands on diprivan, propofol, what you give people before they go into surgery to knock jackson out for hours on end, days on end, why would he have that on the record in his computer? >> because it would take a lot to get diprivan. it may need to be ordered from overseas, it may need to come from a distributor, or it may need to be acquired through an accomplice at a hospital and supply room. right now the problem with this case is they've got nothing that directly connects this doctor with michael jackson's death with the exception of the fact that he was doing cpr when the medics arrived -- >> let me ask you this, dr. makary. how long will propofol, aka diprivan, stay in the system. would it show up in an autopsy? >> yes, it would, it would show up in autopsy and toxicology.
>> if the doctor is there, they've got fresh track marks in his neck. i doubt he shot himself up himself in his neck. and he's full of diprivan. that's pretty powerful evidence, wouldn't you say, dr. makary? >> they could always make a case someone else administered, it was self-administered, someone else administered it. there's going to need to be some hard evidence to make a connection for manslaughter. >> out to ian drew, senior editor with "us weekly." i understand that debbie rowe is still in the fight for control of not only his money, but custody of his three children. >> she is. there's been several false reports disseminated, and i have since found out that is by people close to the jackson side of things. the jackson family. saying that she wants to settle for money. she doesn't want custody of the kids. she doesn't even want to see them. i have spoken to sources very close to debbie rowe -- as you know, i've interviewed her many times over the years, i know her. they assure me she is still after custody, 100%, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
>> out to nicole in missouri, hi, nicole. >> hi, nancy, i love your show. >> thank you. >> caller: i just wanted to ask, and i think the previous speaker just answered it, if this is available only in a hospital setting. this sedative. how could the doctor get ahold of it? and i was thinking inside help from a hospital. >> how would that work, dr. makary? how could they with an accomplice in the hospital? >> these are locked up in a hospital. not even i as a doctor can have easy access to this in the hospital. somebody has to get it from a locked, secured area. and that's how it would have to be supplied. >> to christie in montana. hi, christie. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> they never questioned the paternity of any of the children while he was living. why would the paternity come into question at his death? i mean, he was obviously a good father during the time he was living.
why would they question who's the father now? >> over money would be the only reason i could think of. leonard leeds, a lot of people want that allegedly $500 million empire. and if they had to cut out the three children, by claiming they were neither adopted nor empire. if they had to remove the three children. >> i think that's so far removed. he's the father on the birth certificate. that's an impossible challenge. >> we'll be right back. we're taking your calls. happy birthday to one of our stars, make-up superstar, denitra. happy birthday, my friend. and happy birthday, dorothy. and tonight, 59 years ago about this time, two very special people set off on the ride of a lifetime. 59 years, still together, after
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