or is it more disturbing to the watcher. has it unsettled their perception of daily life, but hopefully a successful protest or a demonstratio n ... one of the goals of it it's not, oftentimes it winds up being maybe divisive but it is important. karl: very good. let me ask a follow up question as ed you touched on something that i think people don't necessarily

extent. is protest patriotic considering the founding of our country and is there a right way to protest. people have ... lately have had problems with the way people choose to protest, is it patriotic and is there a right way or a wrong way to protest? ed: patriotic is a term that has a lot of mixed coloring for me too, so i would say that protesting is repo duty of citizens, going back to jefferson saying that, "if there is not a revolution every decade or so something is wrong." that doesn't have to necessarily be taken literally but if we have the freedom of speech supposedly guaranteed to us that's a right but it's also an obligation. sonia: i feel that if we

know what the temperature was in the social construct so if they weren't allowed to speak their mind then everybody would continue thinking that everything is status quo and we're fine. so our country free. dr. taylor: i think one of the questions is, if there is a right way or wrong way i think it depends on what's the purpose of the protesters, right? each protest is going to have different

contentious and confrontatio nal so for example going around engaging in riots or anything else like that or ... sonia: damaging property. dr. taylor: ... damaging property. for some that's viewed as problematic but if the goal is to bring attention to something and that's one of the ways that this is going to happen that might be something that is effective. sonia: so between peaceful protest and violet right, but that's what the big discussion has been though for example with the black lives matter movement is, is there this kind of successful way to get your course across and what it seems like is that with each different protest it's going to change. it could be something as non-contentious as signing a petition to going out on the streets and protesting and saying, "we're not going to deal with this anymore." sonia: i think it has a lot to do with what they're protesting. like is this on the hierarchy of ... maslow's

think ... that gauges the intensity or the type of protest. karl: let me ask, what would you say as the top 3 drivers of protest in america, in society today. they don't have to all be the same but what would you say is the top 2 or 3 drivers of protest in america today? sonia: inequality, environment, and i would piggyback off with social inequality, we are seeing growing economic and wealth inequality in this country, thus producing both occupy wall street movement as well as the tea party movement, both responding to things like the

from a racial inequality standpoint with black lives matter. you're also seeing it with gender inequality and the transgender movements, the gay and lesbian rights movement with sexuality, so inequality i think is one of the biggest drivers. one that i think we're seeing the effects of is war as well, like immigration and refugees and the movements both for and against it, are a response from wars in those taylor: what you can speak to because you're both veterans, you've seen- ed: i guess what bothers me personally is ... and i'd like to see more protest on it is perpetual war. we are in a sort of a state of denial, a lot of the

goes on all over this world. we as americans i believe do not understand our role and are confused when people hate us. ed: when we feel defensive, "oh we're good guys, we're not militaristic. we are not imperialist," but then to look at those facts they are disturbing because they're not what you sonia: it's not just looking at that it's each of the person who is confronted with this problem has to ask themselves, what in my life is contributing to this? it's not just like, you stop that war, you have to ask, why are you at that war? then you have to say, "oh i have to change." it's calling people to change. ed: part of ... we use the word protest, demonstratio n is probably another thing, another way of saying it but in terms of why do people do

personal stand for someone to say, i'm not going to support this anymore. i'm disassociating myself from this policy or action. or it may be more focused on really changing the thought patterns of the public or maybe it's focused on changing a public policy on something but that's probably a little bit off the topic, but there are protests and demonstrations on all sides of the political and social spectrum. certainly the tea party

phenomenon has to be included in a discussion in terms of protest also. sonia: i think the protest is ... it's like the drops of water, each citizen has very little power individually but when we all put our power together it becomes o karl: you guys, mentioned some things that as i look back, gosh some 50 years, as we look back to the 1960s and we consider some of the similarities today juxtaposed to those back in the 60s antiwar, environmental movement, civil rights versus black lives

tell us something about our evolution as a people, yes or no? if that was the case then and we're back here again, are we doing it wrong or are we doing it right? sonia: i think we're doing it wrong. karl: i agree with you. talk to me also. sonia: because it's one thing to raise your voice, i worked at ivy deli when i was little, young and you'd have all the people coming to the deli and they'd complain about stuff and they talk about it. the next step from complaining is going out and putting protesting, but beyond protesting is action, so like the native americans that were at

confront the dakota access pipeline. what i didn't realize that the native americans when they say, pray, prayer is only finished in completion with action, so our protests are almost like blowing in the wind, as they blew in the wind in the 1960s but they have to be followed with action, and these actions, we all have actions that we can take. dr. taylor: i'll take a more glass half full stance. i think that we've seen significant change from protest. everyone looks to the civil rights idealistic version of social protest. that led to significant change, it led to getting rid of de facto segregation in our country and it changed policies, like it changed certain policies and laws. i think a lot of sociological research and other social movements literally though is, social movements are pretty good at changing policy from time to time. culturally though, when you change attitudes and beliefs it's much more spotty.

attitudes change. you can see, looking just recently at the attitudes of especially my cohort and younger on attitudes about gays and lesbians in this country, has significantly changed from just 10 years ago. sonia: that wasn't a product of protest, that was a product of social stuff. dr. taylor: there is a lot out there arguing for their rights for numbers of years. i think making those cultural changes are much harder. you can stop people from segregating people's schools legally, doesn't mean it's going to prevent people from moving away and trying to still segregate their kids from

been much harder to change. sonia: i think maybe we should ask karl if he thinks that- karl: i'm the moderator so i'll ask the question. sonia: i figure though the one that knows what's it like to be a black on this panel, and if you feel like the protests that went through, maybe they did change policy but maybe they didn't change the heart of america. karl: that woul policies were corrected, the hearts of men that is going to be a longer process in which to deal with and it doesn't stop. you can't stop, you have to maintain being direct. sonia: i think the protests now in my opinion have brought like this ugly parts to the surface that was there but it was just sort of concealed. now with the laws are equitable but we still have social inequality so maybe it's just

reality of where we are thus as you guys talk about the action and bringing about the change, you really can't have one without the other and so it does ... they both play a role in one bringing attention to it, calling it out and then doing something about mantra of the united states is freedom, everybody is for freedom, everybody has maybe a different definition of it. it seems like freedom has come to mean consumerism and ability to separate oneself from the rest of the communal body. that's maybe a degradation of what the true

sonia: if you've never seen freedom you don't know what it looks like. karl: that's true. ed: you can wind up having a taste, you can wind up having a longing for it. you've mentioned the came out of after the vietnam war was finally over is that, "oh hell at least the country has learned something out of this." it's not that this would have made the war worthwhile, that wasn't my thought but that we certainly have learned something from this. then when we impeached richard nixon and he resigned in disgrace i thought, "oh maybe the country is back on its right

making were incorrect. because the course of the country and the course of the society really hadn't corrected. sonia: what should you have done so now we're here at something similar and maybe we protest and we do stop these things but it can't just stop there. something should have continued afterwards, after the 60s. w have been done? more protesting. ed: protesting fine but there's other things protesting has to lead to action. so the jimmy carter was a interesting and ironic character, i shouldn't say was, still is probably the best

alternative energy but he also really got us into mid east quagmires that we're having a hard time getting out of. one of the ... andrew bacevich is a retired colonel and a military historian but one of the things he said, that was interesting is that, prior to 1980 there were almost zero u.s. service people that had been killed in the middle east. since 1980s almost all of u.s. military personnel who have died, died in the middle east and of course oil. karl: each of you have kind of brought up whether it'd

involved should government be in protest? when armed police or military are in the streets does this further push the narrative that rights are being taken away and our government isn't to be trusted. sonia: if our government is using things like imminent domain for corporate gain on farmland and supporting the endangerment f we are the people, we are the government and so i don't see us looking to the higher levels of government to solve our issues, we as people have to come together and solve them. karl: anyone else? dr. taylor: i think with government, usually government is the focus of set protest, so in some ways government can't get out of the way of

government there are some things we know for sure that you are more likely to experience repression from the government the more contentious your political acts. if you are just petitioning, the likelihood that they're going to come down on you with batons or smoke bombs or anything else is pretty low. the more government will respond with some type of repressive acts. so that's something to keep in mind with any type of protest that anybody wants to engage in. i think the consequence of that can be negative absolutely, it's something you as a protester need to think about all the time but it can also play to your advantage. it can be one of the most iconic means of the occupy wall street was the police officer, the university police officer in california

students. he got meaned everywhere. karl: that's trending today. dr. taylor: yeah, and you see these images of law enforcement and military gear because we're very much militarizing our local police are confronting protesters black lives matter protesters and other protesters on a regular basis now and that looks visually quite problematic. so it can very much play to protesters ... it can play to their advantage. it's a strategic thing that the government. ed: i think back to 2003 when the largest demonstratio ns around the world prior in february 15th of 2003, there were millions and millions of people out on the street

iraq." a cynic could say that had absolutely no effect and you don't even have to be cynical to say that, you could just say it from the point of view of ... when we're talking about protest you're still talking about power and the allocation of power. if we're truly a democracy and where the power rests with the people then those protests should find a resonate

we're not that. karl: no it's historic. let me ask a question we only got about 5 minutes left. you bring up the war, you've brought up black lives matter, you brought up the standing rock protest, is the media giving appropriate airtime to all the protests or just held with racial implications and you guys are shaking your head, no, so i'm assuming i kind of have my answer. sonia: the revolution will not be televised. k line. absolutely, so they're not giving adequate attention to it, so a follow up question that because you guys are obviously all see that, is our technology changing the scope and how we get or receive access to what's happening on the ground or

snapshot. sonia: i was able to videotape some of the dogs attacking and the pepper spraying in north dakota and it took me 4 days to get that posted on facebook. they screen it but the facebook is some way that we can disseminate information that's being ignored. dr. taylor: i want to just add that, race has something to do with the fact that it's these indigenous groups that are actively being pushed off their land and their resources are being taken and so in some sense that ... it has to do with the environment and with race and with indi sure. yeah, i'm with you i think that in some ways major media outlets are going to focus on the story, they're going to focus on clam, or on people that are already in the media. so the focus came on colin kaepernick with his protest around police brutality and went off of the actual focus of what he wanted to talk

when you actually listen to him talk he had lots of very thoughtful things to say about this topic but it was all about his standing. i do think that in some ways my generation and younger they're getting all their media through their phones and through facebook, they're not watching television as much as we used to. so yeah. karl: we ol minutes and you spoke to one of the last questions that i would have hopped to ask and that's the rationale why people ignore what people are protesting and focus more on the protester and forget that there is a reason for that. so i thank you guys for your willingness to speak about these topics, what's happening because i think a lot of times and you mentioned this at the very beginning, this bubble, and people don't want to see outside of this and don't want to be uncomfortable. i think it's important that people do kind of get uncomfortabl

what's happening. so our time is up so much appreciate you guys taking your time this morning to speak on this. dr. taylor: thank you. karl: we live in a time similar as we said to the 60s but so different because of the technological advancements but don't let it numb you to the true feelings of others and the need for social justice. i suggest you turn off your revolution will not be televised, thank you and please join us next week on ethical perspectives.

sunday november 13th. starting

it was a stunning night in iowa city as the hawkeyes took down the third ranked team in the country. iowa beat michigan in dramatic fashion. a northeast iowa family has to figure out what to do next after a devastating fire at their business. and a linn county couple is spreading a warning about synthetic drugs after they lost a loved one just last year. you're watching kcrg-tv9. now, from your 24 hour news saturday morning news. good morning and thanks for joining us. we begin with first alert storm team meteorologis t britley ritz. some frost this morning for eastern iowa, but definitely not as thick as yesterday morning. temperatures will stay into the 30s for most. the weather will be somewhat warmer for the afternoon