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tv   The Debate  PBS  May 8, 2014 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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rather fluid to have it at the deep other food authority behind instead kirk. this program is brought you by from norway's mainstream crews were his lines the group. exploring one thousand miles of norwegian coastline the report include counters and access to wilkinson. our. welcome back sch. i spent a fortune separate project. drizzle a
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few sundays on top of the referendum the ceremonies marking the allied victory will work to france because of the quake firms. with chains on the invite list for next month. gates said in the industry average. and as it unravels. you know about the last one. not exist to be honest. stall. full steam ahead. the pro russian insurgency in eastern ukraine rejecting the russian president's request and pressing forward with plans for a sunday referendum on autonomy the russian
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separatists across eastern ukraine. union head with a referendum on autonomy. just plant a call from the russian president to suspend the drapes. we took a boat and the result of bad though was a hundred percent against changing the date of the referendum the referendum remains on meet the lead the thing is i don't mean to her posts a little unsettled by the possibility place meaning the affair ended. we o'grady the recommended we take place on the eleventh in the in the announcement comes after sean change obtained from the kremlin and the gbp to signal the pool but confrontational wednesday calling for the date of independence to be detained but despite the two nd try to prevent increases will not be recognized by the way it's milky and the floor preparations for a referendum and tanya going to ask. because the conner be a referendum about. it is
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impossible to lead the council stunning it doesn't exist. it is not recognize minus two propaganda operation coordinated by the russian federation. the problem of course not. eu foreign ministers gather in brussels on monday in jail to the referendum. and disliked and dismal sanctions on russia has sent ukrainians you can lead to his stupidity continues. moscow by the way blowing hot and cold for mr said the law frost warning is french counterpart it would be quote senseless up for ukraine to hold in the twenty fifth presidential action omelette skip all that government forces from the east and starts a dialogue on a new constitution. here in france v e day commemorated on the eighth. now the ninth of may as it is the east of europe president paul scored on taking the opportunity to state that russia's president is still very much invited to
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next month's commemorations of the seventieth anniversary of d day the white house putting to rest any hope of any one on one meeting between barack obama and biden are put in during those commemorations. indeed a chance for or tongs in the current context to hammer home the need for united europe. commemorations began the atrocities in general do cool stuff cheap. and president assad on to proceedings in the presence of the former president's grandson the vehicle the bacon gun then escorted the president to be up to the left wing pay tribute to those lost in battle at the tomb of the unknown soldier. untill more committed to making the during the elections just two weeks away. the force is wrong and gemini of friendship on the euro to a set of guiding piece compete in the debate could you. i sit in the range bebo has got to see them all goodbye for europe should change it
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change direction in a bid to keep it to the dock. and in an odd spots of europe were unruly and sixty nine years ago. he had killed himself the surrendering in greens in france on the seventh of may. jim and he did so second time in berlin. steve marshall didn't i tell us for a further twenty four hours of reflection. was denied outright minutes late to sign gemini is unconditional surrender. the war he knew it was over. preparations in france are underway for the commemoration of the normandy d day landings seventy years ago. we will read this in attendance among them. paris has confirmed the russian president. london afp. justice is government gets its a re take full control of the country's third city homes of long flight and a formal entry and tell you the ancient citadel of aleppo least fourteen killed possibly many more inside the carlton hotel it's now used as a military base
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the rebel islam is fronts claiming responsibility. it happened as rebels relinquish control of what was once dubbed the capital of the revolution the old city of homes the city of note is that the capital of the revolution is about to lose its revolutionary elite is the symbolic since the last beyond a complete blockade by government forces since june twenty twelve to come up with proceed to the evacuation of civilians back in february and has complete control of the position fine tears comes up to england's mark meeting with the representatives of the recent security forces opposition plate is on the run. it stands a good deal of it seemed dazed people including rental places and at least what the score to three or tying in trucks supplying find them easier to dance to it for you and into the new representatives in exchange of and seventy lebanese and a beanie and prisoners held by the islamic front will be
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released from aleppo humanity we need to also be elated to see pro regime elite is currently on to see to the left will be jaded stanley steamer cleanest is a big city. capturing the rebel stronghold is expected to give president bush on the sides of the stick in the run up to the presidential elections next month. however the opposition are also healing mississippi today has been fun it is a meeting with the guns will be able to join the fleet is in the north of syria. symbolism is signed to epic. the sixteen kids and leaders signed the upper hand in this conflict it simply reinforces the status quo the new cycle of violence in the war torn country will continue. beijing has warned vietnam to stop causing a hazard to its ships the chinese government insisting it has every right to drill for oil. vietnam's coast. and to quote immediately leave the area around the deep sea break were a tense standoff is now
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couples on the high seas has to teach from the deep unease coast guard appears to show chinese ships running in the evenings pencils at a press conference officials said fifty ships was severely damaged and six the list injures after they tried to defend the territorial war says chinese vessels around and to be enemy ships causing them. we had practiced extreme restraint. i will restrain causes and so the chinese continue to run into us we will respond to similar self defense measures the weather has hit back claiming that the unease with the advances in this case the amount of court six vessels which intentionally rammed into it on chinese ships that were going to disrupt our digits into generating activities in the area. this kind of sources on me first when china made to d c will break into borders calls to the car
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so i wouldn't dispute it was his two hundred and twenty km of coast of vietnam. claims that chinese therapy by them to me that the area where this incident took place has always been chinese territory china has the right to defend its territorial sovereignty and vietnam should be aware of this china has a number of territorial disputes with its leaders over the site chinese seek critically is almost in its entirety. most of the week. this dispute to keep it to carry both child and this is a major escalation because of the numbers of ships. because military ships and walnut course takes about ten doctors philippines and vietnam are going to be highly concerned. because it's not just of oil rig is the military muscle that goes with it and every state will feel vulnerable to china china says it hopes the disputes can be resold easterly has refused to meet the area. shares in barclays up six percent on news about radical make over for
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the british bank plans to slash nineteen thousand jobs over the next three years and easing out of its scandal hit investment banking arm barclays returning to its retail groups the drastic times. drastic measures often disappointing results in the past three months of this hit barclays bank has announced a series of structural changes starting with sweet pea layoffs. on thursday the lender announced fourteen thousand jobs or attend to that swelled like what falls onto the cars this year in and around five thousand more are expected to carry before the end of twenty sixteen. please please to the mid fifty percent drop in pre tax revenue in one cents for when the british bank's fixed income currencies and commodities business. the down times been blamed on the drop in the trading of bonds due to sluggish economic crisis and uncertainty over interest rates. off the job losses are expected to be caught in
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the uk. specifically the company's investments on the to be split into you honestly that's could be enough to guess the bank back on track. since the gospel won the alma one operational puppies every neocon of holding back the bank holding the ball one to be so much more optimistic in the future said the trust said to one side trying to draw a line under it and i made on an upcoming was real causation is all about. london has also increased the so called bad bank is expected to house around a hundred billion euros of underperforming assets including loss making european retail operations as well as the less profitable parts of its business. and it's time now for the whole spent yet today. i do. connie edd n hopes of a ukraine de escalation lasted well less than twenty four hours. pro russian separatists in
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eastern ukraine. rejecting the russian president's surprise call for a postponement of this coming sunday. it's crying in style referendum on autonomy that's produced in contention in the view was always a big deal on the calendar in all former soviet republics me the night commemorations of the red army's victory in world war two. it also puts the ball back and moscow's court after an about face. the cop the world off guard on wednesday. gray to blue. we are requesting the representative of ukraine south east and supporters of the realization of the country to prosper in the referendum that it's time to maybe eleven years in order to ensure the necessary conditions to sign on with the addition. i wouldn't be asking a panel about previous pronouncements was it the visiting swiss president's persuasive manner the specter of more western sanctions or does it all fit into the kremlin's cleverly crafted broader plan today in
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the austin kept him busy we're looking at moscow's mixed messages me had some sense to me about it when it's your own mind on that is on a garment will show up and welcome as well to do it again who teaches international relations at the prestigious french political science institutes don't spoil. and from the uk to be too manic london bureau chief for the voice of russia welcome to the show. just back from eastern ukraine falls and gets douglas herbert nice to see that the cause again today. we can always join the conversation on facebook and twitter are hushed and f to four debates this was all hands on deck wednesday evening after flooding or puddings statements that you are by thursday though self proclaimed leaders in places like to get scanned regained their composure and rejected moscow's requests for a postponement. we'll have
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direct contact with letter to him. we found out about his proposals for the media. i think you learn about this decision in the same way now show that if the referendum is held on the eleventh of may. you'll be able to hold it all. having lost the trust of ordinary people. was your reaction when you put that statement and the reaction you've seen the reaction. i was less surprised by the reaction to the reaction on because you know over the past seventeen days in eastern ukraine on the separatists between that time again. i'm from the very hardcore ones the ones manning the checkpoints nominates a ragtag bunch in our heavily armed paramilitary six soldiers in some cases to just million of civilians. you know covenant the air and texturing baseball bats and clouds very very very deeply imbedded in their convictions as a general rule and what what struck me time again is not
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open to any alternative on our achievements. they had to have a set of worldview is now a set of worldviews of dating we got intensified by a relentless barrage of russian propaganda everyone was watching wherever we went on to see a twenty four the average twenty four state owned tv pc screens crowd that gathered in front of it that was the truth that was their version of the world and see posters you to look for what was wrong but that version. if you do when you would you most often. he went as google's keyword search the things he would be fascist could be the word pick him up all the time fascists fascist fascist on was very close second perhaps on. i was i was in the water that says a foreign journalist a french journalist i was not as much an enemy attack an american journalist but i was often a fascist. i was a out to prove not to care. i'm usually in that letter on and what struck me is that the people the most visible and out there on the streets
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it doesn't mean they represented the one man far from it but they are the ones right now we're out with great vocal those who want immediate and report most about because they are the ones making their voices heard and they are not going to back down so i was very un surprised to hear tennis shoe and whose press cockatoos we attended day after day on mon the eleventh largest self proclaimed realm of state gets to pretend on putin. i was a little surprise not very surprised i think that was it could opt out for him i think to himself knows that these people are more protein than him. i mean in the sense that i think he knew that they are one step even further. more and get a disease in french royalists to make a more realistic aim to enable more more hope than the pope he did he really didn't sense lose control them i think it actually works in its favor. he's already let the genie of the bottle. he knows about baking go ahead. do whatever they can entail it's still in the end probably operate including contrasted to achieve his goals but put a napkin a plausible denial you'll be able to say hey guys. i said i e i want to
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post bond referendum. i can't force these people enough to listen to me to know they're not they're not me i'm not their president whenever they're on their own they made the wrong decision. to me she ran into you were created to assert that it's mission accomplished for vladimir putin. i don't think it's his mission to start with. it's a version of the people in the east. i think. one has to realize that i think of the world must've seen enough evidence to support it. a simple truths. that the people in the east of ukraine are generally unhappy with what's been going on an ets. ok you were just talking about. i'm hardcore separatists. in the ukraine or a sort of. not unsurprisingly towing court
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is lying. okay that's it. i guess evidence of the fact that putin has indeed been orchestrating this whole thing despite all our intentions to the country the other hand it was in reference to ignore and sugar from words about those of fascists and nazis unprovoked errors and whatnot these people are a minority in east ukraine. read into that. on the other hand let's look at the other side yes and western ukraine. our lives are right we see the parties the right sector and all of the us national guard units these volunteer battalions are they representative of the majority of the people know they're not. but they are playing for stool. that's how politics works. that's how politics works on the ground. describing got a
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scenario in the east of ukraine to put in. it is so it's not really based on facts. just of misogyny in london. i just wanna get back to that point you just need before you move on. on with the ratcheting up of the rhetoric and you talked about it i was talked and talked about it. i have the russians not talk themselves into a corner with a whipped up a frenzy that you can just suddenly back down who whipped up a frenzy looks are one of his or her for war as the great amazing pictures of the interim governing key and with pictures of nazis all the time i'm on russian state television is that not whipping up a frenzy. it probably is. do we want to look at what ukrainian television is doing ok this morning the acting prime
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minister gets in you. said i'm on the eve of victory day in your. of the glorious soldiers of ukrainian army are. i'm accomplishing this anti operation in what is termed against those insurgents in the east. not separatists morning. what they wanted sterilization. so these heroic ukrainian soldiers are in accomplishing this anti operation just as their grandfathers fought heroically against the nazis comparing the two. it is not cynical or what the pentagon is your reaction. well to the audience that russian television has been complaining that it has been comparing humans activists but now he's all along. so i don't and we don't think it is anything that changes in nine. yes you must have exaggerated a little bit however it is. the things
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cannot be compared to what russia has been doing and hope to cross finances. and and and am now going forward what's gonna happen this sunday. it's not. i think it's not that bad part is how it's going to be the same kind of scenario is what happened in claiming the kids were we seeing that there was a sort of massive turnout until yesterday to the elections and the head with ninety seven percent of the people that seemed to enjoy the show. the question will be different this time and then it will be. do you wish to to live in a separate building off the desk. let's look into question as it's been framed. the question that we've seen is do you support. look at it carefully and the way the question is asked to support the act of proclamation of independence sovereignty and opinions people's republic. but we
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meet again sunday as qq on again and what would you understand but the question independence sovereignty with you when you understand. my news report on the trot and a christian. but that this is the news. it's kind of abuse they don't call for us the separate team from the ukraine could it be like a mountain this week on the inside ukraine. neil then they don't tilted all true if you truly are. entry includes show just like me the notion that the will to stem the flow state decided to get a call from ukraine and india to join the tutu and russia as misogyny dimitri minute to minute he said that the goal is to realization when you see it framed in turn couched in terms of up to the end of independence sovereignty. is that for you the same thing as federal is a sham well it isn't. and erm whatever way
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we read that donetsk ever questioning from. it's not up to them to join russia poured onto in russia. they can only vote for what they are responsible for for their territory for their voters of course they don't decide whether the jordan rushed or not they can request at some point in some form. so that's a little early to talk about you know. russia an accident or whatever. mr crean is heaven. ieee you know when i first read about that question. it was his report in the russian press my side and the quest awarding the question is relevant effectively i don't even really think they knew what that meant when they when they wrote the question to be honest on its interpretation on the ground. the man on the street. ahmed people were gathered. you know the people who are the most zealous about his cause to them is tantamount to essentially showing russia now it's true
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it is not ready to an ex this is not an exact parallel with the crimea scenario and on like randy out one key difference with this referendum is russia is not recognizing delete it in a sea of this referendum as we've seen putin has been trying to distance himself from the referendum but that said the people that we spoke to the people we report what they want absolutely nothing to do with this government in kiev it's not a question at tss it offering greater autonomy to offering the possibility for constitutional reform its offering them the ability to look to elect their own local officials to have autonomy over financial decisions especially to conduct a lot of their own policies they want nothing to do with that they want nothing to do with this government they don't think there's any possible benefit for them from remaining associated with this government yet so i may go into that ballot box rather these samples are actually can be held at another big issue when they go into the so called two thousand polling stations appear promising to have on the ground on sunday maybe the question to them then can we minimize the voting to basically live with rochelle
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whether the technicality of the really entertain themselves to rush or not that's irrelevant. their minds to rush in and when i'm telling them each day when we were marching with the separatists and their parade down the main artery about time yet. he was saying that they were saying to me it was he wanted. danielle is a russian city that was the chant that time they see themselves that was the chant to me to the naked toes moscow by saying that it was to protect the interests of ethnic russians. throughout the former ceo's soviet republics have rebounded know lots of we the people into enhanced after this referendum if there is a referendum on sunday the law on torture that russia is committed to any of that too erm i mean there's there's been no expression of any sort of solidarity of the goals of any further than solidarity. cultural political but did nothing
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more than that. so arm actually there's also one significant point. donetsk is opposed to going out to as a russian city. not necessarily mean that it belongs to russia. because that was scary. she skied are two different word studio russian and belonging to russia ethnically russian and administered inquiry into russia. so these are two different things. his save the queen who was a russian is our language doubt that's what the statement reads alright going forward now to make and what happens. if there is this referendum on sunday. he knew in common who help to them. the cds. either he's in town and on and the duties of some kind of food. major e t the votes in favor of the question to test
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the it can be eaten all my meat in there. they have some kind of freaky to see that in the euro shop we need it most certainly say that. it even if the condition of the referendum when knox. i'm going to keep your critique nelson is the reason we're of the people in it it was the thickness of. the taking into account in any case note that on you can actually be checked legitimacy of the outcome of the vote on several counts i think on a boogie were several polls conducted while we were there including the recent one in the past couple of days the pew research center a periodic we conduct polls and global attitudes on them the most recent one shows that most ukrainians including ukrainians including most russian speakers in these areas in eastern ukraine want to remain part of the night ukraine they do not want to break away. where are these people were not hearing from them a lot of them are either keeping their mouth shut because they fear
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the consequences. they're staying at home they're not showing up in the streets so my my hunch would be with this referendum if it's not out great falsify the results whatever the result does not end up being. it's not going to actually reflect the wheel of the majority of residents here. i was not seeing the match between the fate of the majority of damage control that may need to go to timeout that what i'm saying is that some people you tend to agree the one we read coach we vote in favor of the christian hope. this is the heat is gone and he totally didn't expect it to be a very tall for the youth in government because of that song you know. some don't know so we don't the people of principle. they must take that into account on your than it does not show. and so continued to milk a teacher you know of. the nation and the new internationalist for
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most of its trucks and russia we read except india. you know and dixie for the eyes it was and i do. as a tool to resume on the monument to intervene in the rich peanut to man defense. i think i will meet at the dawn of points on what our russia's intentions in the comeback stay with us. you watch and its content i knew. beyond business. i wanted to check its wrong but isn't quiet i can keep the keyboards and beyond business with the corporate espionage and what it means that companies in an era where information can be stolen within the blink of an elk. beyond business. i got from santa to come the tour in june. with tickets to the twenty fifth of may. eu citizens from
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portugal to horton who vote in the european election decisions by the european parliament to act on that a diet of europeans would embark on a journey or across the continent from the atlantic ocean to the topic to talk to. thanks to face with all sorts of europeans to find out they still really in the european law. the two hundred year old son kept saying to them honor. welcome back stories in boston yesterday to sample the stories will be falling for the top of the hour here on costs and get a pro russian separatist project live your putin's requests for it to weigh in next sunday's talks on
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the referendum. and ceremonies marking the allied victory will work to the french president confirms by the way. it was and remains on the invite list for next month's dj seventieth anniversary commemoration. and after two years stands and assyrian rebels. completing their next mission the old city of palms just as there's been a major bombing in aleppo the flattening of a once luxury hotel. no use to howard's government troops the eye. on. the welcome back welcome if you're just joining us this is the false been tested to date. with a hint of mixed messages out of moscow. we fly into perth on wednesday saying that to be the twenty fifth. president
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elect was a step in the right direction in addition the halls before any referendum in eastern ukraine this coming sunday. we've seen since the response we talked about in part one of the center is saying they're going full steam ahead with this talk about it. your mind an activist on the ground marsh. she is a member of the commission for the presidential actions the twenty fifth. and the terrible be taking place to be too many choices so from monday and he is the bureau chief for the boys up from my shop there to begin again teaches international relations at the french political science institutes gospel and to all and yet still was herbert just back from eastern ukraine. he was a phone conversation this thursday between the russian foreign minister and his french counterpart sergei lavrov as saying that. basically contradicting one from
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improvements in the day before said to me twenty fifth is so fine dining the first half down constitutional reform and to date said the conditions are not great right now. yes actually still not recognizing a m site on the russian side to heal up but still not really recognizing time i do legitimacy or indeed possibility of holding this may twenty ten election. any idea perhaps in a best case scenario when putin was suggesting to postpone the referendum was to push through this a compromise to marry in which you would have the presidential election the twenty fifth held on the same day as a referendum you happen to have tacked on to the presidential poll. i'm proud to know more about that scenario. um but that as we saw percentages have rejected that scenario but it did the russians did not change their tune from the russian perspective it's still a new talk about this with the geneva accords with the geneva accords were signed up in the western perspective it was. aside from the command. finally we have to rush into pointed to use their influence to try to get the separatists disarm
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russia's perspective it was exactly the opposite he was o k now would they need to be those of ultra nationalists guns in kiev in my time to vacate the building to disarm so they were seen you can completely different last half half empty half full on things and it's the same thing in this case the russians do not see the presidential election as legitimate so long as the government in kiev isn't playing by the rules and those rules are seen to be out having to reform having to basically create the conditions for people in the east to feel comfortable a week in the selection so it's it's over before it start to two zero sum game here there already to recheck the other hand the election this is the one even more from functions on you know the houston called to the shias. the one off cost to have a tombstone green it was euro. they want to attend any mistakes useful for joining nato. they really want the protocol toro all over ukraine. and that
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the abduction and eighty one bc is fighting tooth and it is the last twenty legitimate one. with phones the international rule no to every state is suffering so that is no reason why one stage given the keys to the eurozone view of the one that read don't you know the spatial of the colorado on suspicion of view one is on his opponent foreign policy. but e cheese. one pro shop since the nineteen nineties. the find is that it's. the because the core skills. you know that if the form of their countries of the russian consul getting funnier. as the seeds illustrates was independent but today and receive him as a dt sovereignty. just as bush nephew noah. these and the cyclones have teams in nineteen sixty a day you babe feel free to do whatever they want. unless they do they get in some way to go waste. they
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don't want them to donate to within one thing to do to sign an agreement with the european union at its own they have some kind of freaky sovereignty to meet unique to me well i do agree in the sense that yes it's over russia's vital strategic interests in geo strategic interests that are there and play. and that is why russia has acted the way it sector it's been actually there's been a lot of references to the nineteen ninety four agreement whereby the us uk and russia. a man. guaranteed ukraine's territorial integrity in exchange for ukraine giving up its nuclear stockpiles. that agreement also envisaged. ukraine's neutral non aligned states statements and that's something that everybody seems to be forgetting today
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outgoing spiky back to the issue of elections and the referendum and moscow's attitude today. ok so moscow comes up and says let's go ahead with the presidential election. it's not a bad idea it's a step in the right direction. what does she have responded with. it says are anti operation is continuing i mean what do you expect how do you expect the east of ukraine to respond to that guy was almost simultaneous fortunes statement. you know a statement in kiev from kiev about the anti operation were still using force against you guys so we don't want to see a nice sort of referendum in the east now or ever. that's the response and of course that his response to both putin and turkey. in a garnish of the ukrainian prime minister quick to call put his wednesday statement hot air. was that a smart
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move. anyhoo if it was a smart move to such great own it proved once and to be honest i just think is being given the statement that the team and has issued lately it was basically murray state was worried it's tricky. the reason to believe that is why in the interest in rail rail critique should the media companies made the pitches and twenty four hours made of leather and desecration of the reflecting a friend and that was mentioned. he just now and there was a real friend that was produced by the ukrainian government actually like the yen in two thousand and sixteen of the population of the spacing of the events in the nets. he noted she had like a proper brendan is a priest or something that's been inducted into the conditions we having now. this is a gift given to people that i envy the information necessary information to help. what side they're on what kind of
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glad of the issues. and yet both sides actually take me to understand the situation and not putting this was going to write now. given the continued watching russian television only have one side of the story one a kind of information not put socks and this is crucial for any kind of friend you are you going to keep the misbehavior. i must not extend to. ukraine and the decision to pull the dough separatist he's been my joy no one wanted to go is a ok as they doing some of the legal team said everyone to agree on that but didn't know what to complete these terrorists and a grape the weekly news and i mean an indictment. here's why right now though again the talk is about is that sanctions. this puts been then again back on the table the eu green on no wider list
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of names of the kremlin insiders. it's been called me last friday the us president spoke of sick or ill sanctions to palm. um we're hearing more and more hawkish talk on capitol hill. as the us president talks about those sanctions and the republicans calling for much much more. why does this kind of size. assigned to prison in the referendum in east and ukraine in the donuts we can bounce on the eleventh of may with the seam was a nice design and hopes that we can continue this to work with them and provide us with we need to examine further steps we can take to assist ukraine at this critical juncture including the provision of military assistance and equipment body armor as well as training in security assistance for ukrainian porch. to have it on the one hand the german foreign minister saying the media has
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assigned me to de escalate on the other side of the ocean new year robert menendez the senator saying that we need to go in there with with more help so that they don't get the helicopter shot down anymore. oh and by the way mine and it does in a brewing slinging match between washington and france as we speak the under secretary assistant secretary of state for european affairs victoria who has been testifying that there is an economist. she's expressing her concern was the sale of two strong helicopter carrier ships to russia. the french been quick to say that the cia is not final toll october. christina bit of tension over this given these men to mention the heat because the station of. the both bought the site and squeaky friends that we come to russia. we are having a good dose of business was for show. french says almost a rush of them seem to be here. and the sheeps. as you
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know. on the nominees in the uk the financial hub for roche money. and as the sentences gemini and older houston a european country that body not to forget is so and it's one thing to say that we want to punish russia. but it's another thing to raise the price for each and the us incident its way up. they have in that situation. when it became known as the new casinos basically iam we are the weaknesses are. when we die mean what would you take would take the us had to use alternative energy resources would take europe to come together and show unity because germany is tended to be much closer in to toorak she even if that happened some more stuff statements america lately and we take the ukrainian government actually be less corrupt actually be clean government that shows the will to reform so all of this the us on energy europe on unity and ukraine coming to get an idea clean grout that corruption free government that reforms you have all those they don't like the avengers copy
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the data it is united to prepare us all together maybe then maybe then they'd be able to actually pose a real threat to pretend i don't think sanctions alone in the geneticist. his point of going to do it. it's been too little too slow and dreams in her absence here and they are on and i think he knows he right now as i have seen the pace of the russian economy slowing this way not to even further with capital flight and it's true it would continue apace it could actually do some real damage the rations it did teach that everything ran in the mean anything to devaluation crises they've been through financial shocks they can take a lot of pain and i think that routine above all was putting his paramount interest his own political interests above everything he's willing to wear that and he's willing to let the people and joy that came in the name of the training is on at work. i agree and want us to remember that divide us and euro is very cold so detected it was one of the beach to cool for a soak in for some stupid foreign policy. so we took me out. it's not. russian
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president. it's here. it's the united states just talking more often the minute that you know when the cold war was going on. many european countries have got to be his choice was to happen they would be a good ol' fun time so a day once temptation to put the book was called into china in the musician you know it redeemed in the past fifteen and that was this democrat state to state but not part of nato and the return of forty four and twenty at eureka for another took part in the subject interests you or another we're not heading towards demonization of court on trade in the treatment was given to the effect of more sanctions i don't like is that the entire approach our view north of the west are getting together to end up on russia and our mission in russia. actually there's an interesting parallel. and i guess that now will agree
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with me there. that one of the biggest grievance is that ukrainians house the towards russia is that russia sort of poses itself as a as ukraine's elder brother. so this sort of paternalistic kind of attitude not always benevolent. and that's something that really gets the ukrainians go to law. now what we're seeing is the west's sort of posing as news of the same kind of elder brother but the whole walk pretty much pitch towards russia and that's not gonna go down well in russia and when you talk about no sanction against poaching and his inner circle. what we are in fact talking about. these sanctions against the russian people and there's a lot of units be having a round put you on this issue on crimea on ukraine in general. so you're not talking about the middle of the twenty oligarchs or whatever. or
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ministers it's the little nation of one hundred and forty million people that is pretty much united on this issue so let's make the dress take a more constructive approach and address russia's june concerns. do not condone or encourage kiev to throw out of the window russia's proposal to postpone the referendum these two great lights. it's sort of lets latch onto those constructed bits that we can and to build a constructive dialogue over this whole mess you can read and one day this trend is the writer couldn't put forth what is in two thousand for two thousand five to the collapse of the city was the greatest tragedy in the fall. he and his nation in the twentieth century that are only counted how many times have i heard thrown at me you're ok. he said facts but he also said
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to him. that quote is always call it. he also said that he who does not regret the collapse of the soviet union has no heart. he wants to it. no granny thomas herbert at this point in time. where is the psyche and in moscow when it comes to. what's going for a new saying the russians are ready to go into more things they've done it before the plunge in eighteen eighty eight he i mean he has a definite point is a lot lot there's a reason that putin's popularity is eighty percent higher than it's been out since you know in the past two years its highest point since he took office. it's their turn. um i might do that. i think on the russian side but you do have is a real sense of grievance. a sense that they are misunderstood and a sense that they are somehow victimized on and i do think that actually the unity comes together across a lot of parts of society. so yes even
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people who don't necessarily love putin and his personality as asa percent of the can identify with a lot of what he's trying to do that to in effect firmness that standing up to the west that strong leader because it coming out of what you know you know a generation of sloan fragile claps into decline where was basically and in the know bunch of decrepit leaders who couldn't do and things to finally have the strong leader who makes him feel proud. and and and yes indeed latch on to that message because you know it you feel like they are surrounded a lot and it's the same thing it was projected in the east of ukraine as well it's that sense of fear paranoia and pretends all coming together in a very very volatile formula. i'm back to me to a lot of time in silence potentially and acts like to its civil war. image and criminology study what happens inside of the high halls of power in moscow's a very difficult exercise here in the west. and it was the musician the outset of
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this crisis back in november that not all are diplomats didn't have a firm grasp on how much the russians felt slighted. today in washington or in the heat in europe. do you think that from. they have a better understanding of it now when you see for instance that germany is the one country that does know the russians pretty well he's not claim the moral of the foot of a forward roll we reviewed and noah. they know. compared to what that was an inside game that has endured and the tigers look uncle merkel's the one person could sort this out yes we heard that. on those though. all the shows will um i'm not sure they can do think it much i think in germany and the frequency of gemini is enough. in india the budget economy and
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the two of the business was for show. they want to listen to steve making speeches at us remember that they buy most of the guests we can all see now from rochelle. in one of the four in a truck full of twenty new story idea. you know. when the gospel message and so a dmb coast economy peace. on the other hand they are very worried about what's happening in ukraine because they know is that a changing and you are aboard this by false the home. those same economy interest in the shoe shirt and a new future. i'm in. you know. i don't want a new program to wall defence. gemini has a proven false. they want when she uses me to be false. we told that in africa. and so on. they don't see that to you can for sweeping sanctions the use he meets reflex. we were sure would be
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a future. a new leaf the ride along on this issue the bw other end and i mean everyone knows you get. what was then the stupid just reading and posting the street and keys amend that to show and respect falls solely on detroit. and i don't and you know tolkien checking in to keep talking or with the team at the ready now has a longstanding going on here and that's when it comes to this especially in defence circles. france recently rejoined the high command of nato is their complete rethink of how the french see the defense parties going on. when the thing is what's happening in ukraine. these would be courting from the strategic surprise that mean that nobody was expecting something like that to happen we were more as you know we're focusing on the ed st john comfy to the you know a
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fork on trees and the shoes and see the walls. we were not expecting it to the beach at the industrial states like russia off. using again according to the fullest. so we as a team continues to try and friends we meet with a report which keeps. the what is and he rebounded with a regal it means for instance the bbc kia and. do we knew we need to know tony to hop on and meet real people instead of top design for a head you know a war against any chance that you heat it was up strongly to tweak the things that can be engaged in a reader will be zooming in on this it's got a ton of things. i garnished when you see a situation where it's developing. these ukraine better off. inside or outside of me. i think will personally i think it's
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better off inside the piece was based in this debate and prevent us from having any sort of context like that anymore. whether giving depression pursue that crushes it has been. and just icing. we train the chewing racing given that this question has never been. we strongly supported the ukraine to float the support has grown over time in discussing the situation. she's very delicate still. it is the only down fall is so cute because it's the opposite us safe from community to you all the ones that have joined a tool don't you know and i know all the states where to from twenty two which goes on to completion on russian speaking filthy after he asked permission from the nation's banks. no vietnam conflict and because of these thus the need to membership. i was a beast. i would like very much agreed to join me however. if this
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decision is going to be contained. i'm afraid it will be in the war violence just because russia both. and after that and agreed to join me to use it to rejuvenate yes to him who sent you actually if we talk about polls like we spoke about the pew poll earlier in the show. the vast majority of sixty seventy percent of the people role of the people of ukraine are against nature that's that's been in the polls as well and we got to take the ride gets. also if we talk about sort of russian threats to former soviet republics that is that is fantasy pretty much the only way to the tv on it yes yes again in the may contract. followed by russia of response but there's one other parallel that i want to bring out the five days during the post soviet years
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of the national identity than the state court of some post soviet countries including ukraine have been defined by this sort of well dressed a phobia to know to call a spade a spade. it's a useful tool this national has been bordering on. you know chauvinism and in the case of western ukraine. there's a strong the radical right wing elements to the whole process so there's been a few countries like bulgaria is another example. now the parallel is that the west is kind of defining itself now to some of the brussels washington axis. do you say google is through this sort of the fear of russia iraq as the enemy russia hosted a tea that is what defines the western alliance is that
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what where when the west is trying to grow final word on this post ever read back the cold war. the knesset lead back to the cold war. on my feet with that too but do you know period of a lot a lot of tensions in a lot of the new trainees can and look like them. swiss cheeses least eastern ukraine in the near future because regardless what happens in this referendum. you can have regions which are gung game set against any central party from kiev on as far as joining nato i don't see it happening we didn't talk about a wretch as a concept in europe or on tickets to the concept of the russian student but imagination that the government and an imagination makes good sense of clothes former republics performer parts is indeed an empire which are quite right it's part of its dear friend emily who has unfortunately been there but i wanna thank you doug is forever no one at the gazebo human again and again a sure thing to me too many to be with us from london thank you for joining us here. and cats. also in
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calculus and opportunity. god is now available on connected what the real english french or eight acts as a whole host of interactive services morales articles on a website or access of complete catalog to watch the programs take control if you want to be experienced. world news connected twenty four seven the eye. i do. do. and. i
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know. we are. i do. in the in him. go go. we will
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do the eye. the rt you mean you're a potential us military withdrawal from afghanistan but how much will it cost the american taxpayer looking back in and rt exclusive. the pentagon is faced with another dilemma strapped for cash that it may cut down its number of military personnel. on that coming. and as the us continues to blame russia for the ukraine crisis and the state department push for stronger sanctions against russia on that later in the shower


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